New Supercapacitors will replace Batteries? Stress Testing LICs (Lithium-Ion Capacitors)

[@greatscottlab]

The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/greatscott01221

[@ruex64]

hey but the lithium is getting scarce day by day seems like a new replacement for lithium might come at relief of the new battery replacement. hope you have a good day scott btw nice video

[@greatscottlab]

@@ruex64 Thanks for the feedback :-)

[@nand2624]

haha! the comment is from 5 days ago? I was about to get mad that youtube sent a notification after 5 days! think I figured out what happened 😅

[@zephalon]

If you want a long term subscribtion they are offering 40% off the first year right now.

[@moregirl4585]

The first 1,000 people to use this link will get Batteries? (random link)

[@tvtoms]

They're handy in model railroading to supplement power for lights, sounds, and motor where you have dirty rails and intermittent electrical contact.

[@genkidama7385]

oh, thats ultra cool.

[@BurningApple]

That'd be neat, but you'd likely need DCC for it, as I don't think these caps can take reverse voltage.

[@Koronosavilon]

@@BurningApple I think you could use a bridge rectifier in the train itself in order to make it work.

[@syiridium703]

But wouldn't a normal super cap (that does not require over discharge protection and is way cheaper) work just as well for this purpose?

[@SoulAir]

sounds shocking unfortunatley

[@danwei41]

And what do we learn? Energy storage technology has still a long way to go and seems to be just at the beginning. I wonder what´s going on in 10 years from now.

[@greatscottlab]

I am looking forward to it :-)

[@TheBackyardChemist]

My prediction is that anything that would seriously improve both the energy and power density of current best lithium batteries, would make an acceptable hand grenade in a pinch. Remember, batteries store energy as chemical potential, and a battery that stores a lot of energy and can be charged/discharged at high power, is by definition something that can release a lot of stored chemical energy quickly. The latter is also a pretty good definition of explosives.

[@adrianroed2178]

@@TheBackyardChemist So you are saying smart grenades that can act as either a flashbang or a shrapnel grenade might be in the future?

[@NyoshaM]

@@TheBackyardChemist it would be horrible if we created bomb that fit in the hand

[@TheBackyardChemist]

@@adrianroed2178 No. Such things would be like improvised devices, like a pipe filled with powder. This would also have safety implications, a Tesla with 3x the range and charge speed would be nice, but it would also have more than enough energy to melt the entire car down to a puddle of lava.

[@deadbird99]

An as IoT enthusiast, it was all "woah" and "awesome" until you revealed the price 😅

[@greatscottlab]

Reality is often cruel....

[@marcogenovesi8570]

it will come down with time

[@schimpl94]

The cheapest currently in europe is the VPF406M3R8 with 40F @ 4€, i think this is a good alternative for e.g. 18650 :D

[@b.vamshigoud6787]

@@schimpl94 yeah the disadvantage is cleared now !!

[@tharunkm999]

How can you comment 5 days ago

[@JoelCreates]

If these come down in price, I could see pairing them with cheap sealed lead acid batteries for an ebike capable of rapid acceleration bursts

[@mphmm]

@@twizz420 sometimes you need material science to catch up with an idea. Think touchscreens for example, they were around for decades before they were able to become ubiquitous.

[@Manfred_Messer]

if you flip over a lead acid battery, it will probably leak. That's something you don't want to have on your e bike. Even sealed ones arent reliable on this.

[@Martinko_Pcik]

Why not to do it today with cheaper supercaps ?

[@ansgaryeysymontt7155]

@@Manfred_Messer These are usually AGMs

[@easybatterybox3634]

You can find 15 Kilowatt electric motorbikes, they are 65kg off-road bike,18 times more powerful than an olympic cyclist lol.

[@doomgod314]

Supercapacitors were one of my favorite future technologies when I was in college. Still hoping that they will.

[@vjnobody]

Yea totally! I mean... the only gripe seems to be how big they are... so make the entire roof thikk with super/ultracaps, and have a substantial boost with regenerative braking already.

[@sebastiangudino9377]

But they are still fundamentally capacitors, they are not meant to store a lot of power. They are meant to store some power which can be charged and discharged very efficiently

[@davidgunther8428]

Having to implement over- discharge protection for these seems difficult to me, if wanting high discharge capability also. That's one advantage of conventional super caps, they behave pretty simply. 🤔

[@RyanJensenEE]

Agreed. I'm betting LICs will serve only a few niche applications as long as they impose a minimum voltage requirement and are more expensive.

[@absalomdraconis]

And yet, I'd suspect that a simple 6 or 8 pin PIC12 or 14 paired with some SMPS components would be enough to implement the full system, + charge & voltage regulation, for maybe a dollar.

[@davidgunther8428]

@Jared Maddox I don't know their impedance, but if you want 50-100A currents for 2-4s, while keeping within their 1.5V wide operating window. Maybe a circuit designed to discharge specific length pulses, with an enable threshold would work better than approaching it like a battery protection board circuit. If you're making a circuit for Pmax (close to impedance matched load), detecting V internal under 2.5V accurately during a discharge sounds hard.

[@HighfireX]

You may be able to use existing lithium ion charging circuits to protect these capacitors, since they have similiar charge/discharge requirements. May be useful in solar projects where you need the lower discharge rate during off-peak hours.

[@davidgunther8428]

@@HighfireX yes, looks like LiFePO4 cells have very similar voltages to these capacitors.

[@thomasrogers8239]

For the longest time after hearing about lithium ion capacitors there was only one place I could find that was even talking about them. I'm happy to hear they finally hit the market.

[@a64738]

The normal way of doing this for decades have been to combine supercaps with battery, it is a cheep simple solution that give you more benefits for less money.

[@andrewhamop6665]

Let's be honest, we all just wanted to see these caps blow stuff up. They're cool and all, but the destruction factor is what grabs my eye with capacitor related videos. Great video nonetheless!

[@greatscottlab]

The destruction is definitely a bonus ;-) But other than that, I think those caps were quite interesting.

[@xyz2112zyx]

Not meee!!

[@ucitymetalhead]

Electroboom would agree.

[@TRLTheRandomLab]

At those prices, I wouldn't blow them up for fun!

[@Steve-GM0HUU]

Didn't know there was such a thing as LICs. I do now. As always, interesting and appreciated, thank you.

[@MCsCreations]

Really interesting indeed! 😃 I would love to see 18650 spot welding project using those and a battery pack! Anyway, stay safe and creative there! 🖖😊

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback :-)

[@cryptophoenix3031]

I'm also looking for affordable solution for spot welding 18650 battery packs (with >=0.2mm nickel)

[@wernerviehhauser94]

@@cryptophoenix3031 I do that with a 30 € spot welder based on LiPo pouch batteries. I am not sure you can easily beat that with supercaps, they also have current limits etc.

[@cryptophoenix3031]

@@wernerviehhauser94 But can it weld thicker >=0.2mm nickel? and what is the effect of heat to the health of the batteries?

[@wernerviehhauser94]

@@cryptophoenix3031 the amount of heat generated has nothing to do with the welding device but rather with the materials being welded. I successfully welded paper clips and 0,2mm nickel, but I do not have any thicker material available for tests. This looks similar to mine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/inrCi4ljarx7n5Y

[@rubabmubarrat]

as always, Thank you for bringing latest technology content

[@TheRealBanana]

Will these capacitors have long-terms issues with lithium dendrite formation like lithium batteries do?

[@joshnabours9102]

If they do, they appear to be significantly less affected by it. Their number of charge/discharge cycles before wearing out is apparently much higher than lithium based batteries.

[@orppranator5230]

Basically, no.

[@joshuagoff7878]

graphene caps last millions of hours lithium lasts 600 to 1000 charges .

[@ABaumstumpf]

@@joshnabours9102 Don't mix up discharge-cycles with battery lifetime. LiPo degrade not just with cycles but with Time as well. Extrapolating long lifetimes just cause of low cycle-degradation is one of the biggest marketing-scams that companies (like Tesla) have. (That is also the reason why Tesla is giving a long but limited warranty on their batteries. After ~8-9 years they start just failing - that is quit a decent time for Lithium-based batteries, but it is also the reason why the first gen of Teslas are basically electric garbage now cause replacing the battery alone costs as much as a new car of other companies).

[@joshnabours9102]

@@ABaumstumpf the fact is, most people consider the discharge cycles the useful lifetime of the battery in the vast majority of devices. So it is a better figure to use when you don't know the technical understanding of the person you are talking to. It is also a better figure to use since anyone who used the object daily will typically meet the cycle limits before the cell fails due to age. Not to mention the question involved lithium dendrite formation. Not battery life if stored for years. Also, just in case you missed it while reading my first comment, I wast talking about lithium ion capacitors. Not lithium ion batteries. Additionally, the actual measure of reliability for the whole electronics industry, mean time between failure (MTBF), is something that changes to a degree based on the battery pack design, cell chemistry, cell type, and the like. It involves math and technical understanding to calculate the MTBF for a battery pack. This is why advertisers never mention it. It does not make sense to reference that when talking to the average person. You have to know your audience and choose your words accordingly in technical explanations. And when in doubt you go with the thing you know the other person will understand. Even if it is not technically 100% accurate in all ways. That is one of the first things you have to figure out working in a technical field. When to use what jargon and when to use what level of analogies.

[@HighfireX]

Thanks for taking the time to review these!

[@greatscottlab]

My pleasure!

[@YSPACElabs]

I have this lantern that uses a lithium ion capacitor (the component says "lithium capacitor" on it, and it has a capacity of 800mAH (not farads, which is weird)) for no apparent reason. A lithium battery would give it higher capacity, and a small lantern does not need high discharge current capabilities.

[@SuperUltimateLP]

if it says mah then ist a battery. it might say something else but mah is only usefull on a battery. a battery needs more monitoring and doesnt life as long tho.

[@YSPACElabs]

Weirdly, the component comes in a package that looks like a big capacitor.

[@JLCPCB]

Both informative and cool video as always! ❤

[@akhurash]

Seems like an interesting technology but at that price it’s hard to justify the need for it unless the use case requires it.

[@greatscottlab]

Definitely

[@RomanoPRODUCTION]

00:01:41 What a fantastic smile! GreatScott is full of passion.

[@SupportToolsBlog]

Super caps have been used in the enterprise storage environment for years to protect memory backed cache. The idea being that RAM is really fast but if they lose power the data is lost. So enterprise storage systems have a super cap that powers the memory during a power outage just long enough to write the data to a slower flash based chip. They uses to use batteries but you would need to replace them every couple of years and you would need to test them on a schedule.

[@gordonlawrence1448]

Actually RAM only uses a lot of power (for SRAM) when it is being read or is being written to. The LL versions use diddly squat current. Even the crappy ones use 1uA on standby.

[@___echo___]

​@@gordonlawrence1448 still, if you lose power you don't know for how long it will be lost, RAM is volatile memory, if you lose power for even a second that data is gone, its best to be prepared for the worst

[@alexmcd378]

Nifty! I love seeing energy generation/manipulation/storage progress.

[@scotttod6954]

I replaced the battery on my quad with super capacitors. Was sick of having to maintain batteries on something that was not used that often. I pull start or boost it if I had not used it in a few days but the capacitors take the charge fast and I can use the electric start and lighting on the quad. I was surprised that with a full charge I can run the led headlight for at least an hour as task lighting without having to run the engine.

[@blarbdude]

I thought you were talking about a quadcopter and was so confused 😂 That's really cool though!

[@scotttod6954]

@@blarbdude I paid about 37$ CND for the capacitors mounted on protection boards. Cheaper than a battery and in theory should last longer than the ATV. A lead acid battery even well maintained in my climate lasts about 3-4 years.

[@Joel-mp2oo]

@@scotttod6954 interested in charging system for such batteries is there any difference or can you just wack a standard battery charger on from like a car battery charger

[@scotttod6954]

@@Joel-mp2oo the protection boards seem to not really care what I charge it with. To boost I will plug a 4 cell lipo or whatever power source I have around. Once the engine is running it charges great off the stator and voltage regulator. Before I installed them I bench tested with a manual 10amp battery charger. You would need at least a bit of charge in them before an automatic battery charger would recognize it.

[@Infinion]

I also did a supercap exclusive pack, but for my '09 Chevy Cobalt. Sixteen 2.85V 3400F cells in a 6S2P combo which gives me a 16V 1000F pack. Since the car is a manual, I can push start it at voltages as low as 7V for the alternator regulator to produce net energy, and the alternator will charge at 110-130A constant current until voltage tapers off at 13.2-14.8V depending on if the car thinks in needs to "desulfate" the lead-acid battery that's not there. It's such a fun technology. The brand of supercap is "GDCPH" off of aliexpress, about $30 per cap, 3.84Wh each. One thing us supercap-only users need to add to the arsenal is an extremely high-current boost regulator that runs down as close to 0V as possible. Since these caps can discharge huge currents at low voltage, often they meet the requirements to start engines, but the voltage is in a "deadzone" to actually run the electronics and spark plugs. For me, that's under about 6.5V. If it can boost to 12V at a pack voltage of 3V, for example, charging or jumping with other batteries or equipment will never be necessary. This is fine for the alternator because it stays self-powered after the engine cranks over, and shouldn't overheat in the 20-30 seconds it takes to charge the caps up.

[@kaschtelator]

ich muss echt sagen die ruhige Musik im Hintergrund lädt zum einschlafen ein und mann hab ich lang gepennt ne ganze stunde weg gepennt :D :D

[@kaseyboles30]

One potential use for supercaps or hybrids is powerloss protection on storage devices for computers to prevent data corruption.

[@kyoudaiken]

AFAIK they actually already do this!

[@TauCu]

Most SSD (Solid State Drives) use this technology for this exact purpose. SSDs commonly have a volatile memory cache for writing to the drive, this cache will loose it's information if power is lost and therefor must be dumped to the NAND before shutting down.

[@julianpreuker7988]

Gerade mal am Ende des Intros und jetzt schon extrem gehypt. Super Start ins neue Jahr!

[@1kreature]

So, they have the same internal resistance as a high performance lithium polymer battery pack, but are far more expensive and stores less energy.

[@darkworlddenizen]

And cant be fully discharged, still contains lithium and has all the same problems as a lithium battery. Doesnt seem like an improvement to me. It's just a less capable lithium battery. The advantage of regular super caps is that you can store and dump massive amounts of current without risking damage to the capacitor and these negate that advantage.

[@SuperUltimateLP]

@@darkworlddenizen way longer sevice life and more temparature resistant.

[@vgamesx1]

@@SuperUltimateLP Yeah, assuming they eventually get the price down to near normal super caps, these would be great replacements for super low energy devices such as those solar calculators or remote controls.

[@dl5244]

@@SuperUltimateLP supercaps are only "temperature resistant" when not charged (but still better than a Li battery). In order to get ~10yr life at 70C from a 2.3V supercap (rated for 2000 hrs at rated voltage), we never charge above 1V. This means we need many in series... which multiplies the ESR... which means we needed even more in series, which reduces overall capacitance but eventually results in enough usable energy storage. Usable energy does NOT go to 0V. Even high complexity buck+boost/sepic converts only go down to ~1.2V. Factor in the I x ESR voltage drop and you see why so many are required in series (with a complex balancing circuit b/c tolerance is so sloppy)

[@FluorescentApe]

This is THE channel i come to when i wanna see new cool tech like this. It's just like you video with ceramic batteries! Thanks for giving us this content

[@moodberry]

I can think of an additional real-world use for these. Already, start capacitors are used in heating and air conditioning units. In recreational vehicles with AC units in them, the initial power draw spikes the amperage, meaning that you can't run the whole RV's power system at the same time until the AC has settled down. Also, even if you have a generator that supplies enough runtime power, the initial current draw will trip the circuits in a typical generator, and that is why capacitor hard-start kits are becoming standard on RVs. But if household AC units were manufactured with capacitors built in, it would relieve the spiking of demand in city power grids in high demand events, smoothing out the power demands on the grid.

[@pizzablender]

That is not the role of a "start capacitor". It doesn't store energy for startup, it is there to create a phase shift in a motor winding.

[@RSPYT]

Bloody hell your hand writing is the neatest I’ve ever seen!!!!!

[@FVBmovies]

Could be good for dash cams, IoT and various sensors placed in harsh environments.

[@arandomguy4478]

Brb gonna mod my dashcam real quick

[@dl5244]

I design sensors for harsh environments (max 70C for >10yrs). It's unlikely a rechargeable lithium chemistry will ever last that long. And the 500-1000 cycle limit is very limiting. Supercapcitors can be used, but the design is costly, complex and larger than you'd think.

[@bitelaserkhalif]

Installing standard Li ion battery on dashcam causes it to bloat

[@FVBmovies]

@@dl5244 Wait, what? I thought LICs can discharged thousands of times @ 08:05 . Discharge rate would also matter, wouldn't it? Of course, advancements are still needed. What would be your technology of choice for the particular sensors?

[@BESTvsWORST-vx2dg]

Very informative and useful video, thank you

[@tanjiro3285]

Ur intro should get a "Intro of the Year" Award

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks mate :-)

[@grantrennie]

I'm getting some of these for Big Clive for sure 👍

[@Ian-pe9rj]

The issue with supercapacitors is their voltage is proportional to the charge level (2V @ 100%, 1V @ 50%) batteries can retain a mostly constant operating voltage up to the point where there almost discharged. So using a super capacitor currently would require a boost converter to maintain a constant voltage on whatever load you’re powering it with.

[@bknesheim]

That voltage is only constant as long as you keep the draw on power so low that the internal resistance have little effect. You will need a really large battery bank to run a spot welder directly from it.

[@casemodder89]

a cap at 63% of it's starting voltage is considered discharged. that makes it even tighter.

[@andrewkay9226]

As always with your videos I learned something new & thoroughly enjoyed your presentation - thanks!

[@promisenwaobilor95]

Am very excited to hear that this component exist now. It opens alot of potentials. But currently quite expensive for now 😃

[@PowerScissor]

Seems like a pain to need to keep capacitors protected from low voltage.

[@bigben_blastroyal]

On ebay I se a lot of them low price $ 4/5/6 I am realy interesed if they can colected like a batery pack. But a lot of questions for me about BMS etc..

[@MixMeMcGee]

Man! This is a great video… the escalation in production quality is really fun!

[@vigilante_stark]

I think supercaps can be combined with lithium batteries to make a hybrid battery. Say one side is supercap and other is li batt and a soft wall in b/w to separate them (imagine a smartphone battery like this !). They can then be linked to each other using appropriate circuitry (and ribbon wires in embedded case). This way we can have all kinds of advantages. But more generally, I think the battery technology needs to fundamentally change. We need more and more research and development from big companies in this technology.

[@a64738]

They already have been selling for decades large 1F ++ supercapasitors for car stereo and also other uses that is meant to be used in combination with your car or camper van battery bank. It helps the battery by handling the large short currents spikes (like when starting electric engines or bass in car stereo) giving the battery longer life and also give you more power for handling power spikes.

[@kirayoshikage4057]

We don't need to imagine batteries that explode, it already happens like all the time with phones.

[@rdxdt]

ohh the DIY shaking torch, i really enjoyed the video of that project, glad that you still have it around

[@greatscottlab]

I don't throw away old projects. It is a bless and nightmare at the same time

[@rdxdt]

@@greatscottlab i try to keep most of my projects, but sometimes, i need to borrow some parts for another project, usually is a IRLZ44N that i have to borrow 🤣

[@olafschermann1592]

Sounds like a valid short time buffer for electric cars in addition to the existing battery. So even smaller batteries could have enough boost for one or two „tesla“ accelerations.

[@schawo2]

10 sec of 360kW of M3P discharge is 1kWh. If we want to reduce the load of 5C of the 72kWh battery to 2C, we need to store 600Wh in the LIC buffer, which is about 500 units and has a price tag of $12,500. No way.

[@thorbjrnhellehaven5766]

At the current price tag, they don't make sense, but if the price come down they might. Maybe think about possibility of a dual battery: "Normal" primary battery, for most of the energy: Regen/top battery, to allow more powerful regen, to gradually take over charging session on top, when the primary battery can't accept much power. But of course there is energy density, and price tag. I don't think we'll see it in the near future, but our kids might.

[@gmourao]

Breaking could benefit also. Maybe even ending the need for disk brakes.

[@thorbjrnhellehaven5766]

@@gmourao I think powerful regen braking, at least could mitigate the need for mechanical brakes. But I think still mechanical brakes would be needed. However, the main purpose for disc brakes is for ventilation purpose. I you reduce the need for active use of mechanical brakes while driving, drum brakes come forward as a possibly better option. Especially in colder climate, where they use salt on the road during winter, drum brakes have the advantage of being a closed system, not being exposed to the elements the same way.

[@babatumises.r.o.5568]

Díky!

[@nekomakhea9440]

it would be interesting to see supercaps used for regenerative breaking in hybrid vehicles. A large portion of the energy used in a car is speeding up and slowing down, and maybe supercaps would be a lighter weight way to implement that feature, since you only need to store enough power to stop the car once or twice. Since the surge power needed acceleration is provided by electrics, the actual gas motor that sustains long distance could be smaller and thus more efficient. Having it in a hybrid would sidestep a lot of the range anxiety and charging location issues with purely electric vehicles.

[@Ferraday]

The energy recovered from regenerative braking is comparatively quite low, enough for the batteries to handle. It’s at most 100kJ

[@ConsciousBreaks]

I believe supercapacitors are already used in some light rail lines in the world where portions of the route are not electrified for various reasons. Also, apparently Mazda uses supercapacitors in their "i-ELOOP" system. According to their page though, it looks like they only use it for powering electrical systems like the headlights and audio, as the cars aren't hybrids. I question whether it's better than just using a lithium battery pack, though. In any case, I think using supercaps would just be some halfway solution to the problem, and the ultimate solution is that we just create better batteries.

[@westelaudio943]

@@ConsciousBreaks You can't just "create better batteries" out of nothing. Maybe there's a composition better than LiIon, at an affordable price that will eventually be discovered. But there could just as well be no such thing.

[@vidhill]

I imagine they might use them in Formula E perhaps

[@ConsciousBreaks]

@@westelaudio943 Well, I was being semi-facetious about that part. And to be clear, there are several promising (lithium) battery chemistries that already exist that are way better than current chemistries(e.g. NCA) used in EVs. For example, Li-S batteries have more than double the specific energy of current cells, but still need more R&D towards improving cell degradation.

[@satyaranjansahoo1847]

I hope this year will bring you more views.❤️❤️❤️🥰

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks :-)

[@bruderdasisteinschwerermangel]

Quite interesting components I doubt they'll fully replace the standard batteries that we've been using for decades, but they certainly have their applications

[@Stopinvadingmyhardware]

What would you know? You only invented their precursors

[@davidgunther8428]

Thanks for giving an overview of these new caps' characteristics!

[@slavko5666]

6:00 Here is the answer to the title.

[@isaacclark9825]

Nice video! Are there any cool integrated circuits that can be used to implement most of the required protection? They may make using these LICs more practical.

[@kanseich.6042]

This guys got me wanting to learn all this from me just looking up how to resuse l-ion batteries

[@IONYVDFC]

I wonder if LIC's could help drone technology, particularly the ultra-light

[@22KaTsh]

You need to look into putting capacitors in series … you won’t like what happens 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Jarmezrocks]

It's about finding a common multiplier! Simple as that. You can't deliver more energy out than what's put in? Just because something has the capacity for 450volts doesn't mean if you give it 3.7v that you might somehow get back 450 through some internal voltage multiplier? It doesn't work that way. They can act like a buffer because the current follows and path of least resistance? There is more internal resistance in batteries than in capacious so the caps will charge first! It's like similar to data flow on solid state drives. Think of battery storage and performance like data storage and performance? Capacitors are like RAM performance Then Lithium ion batteries are likes solid state drives and everything else older is like hard disk HDDs.

[@IONYVDFC]

@@Jarmezrocks I won't philosophise that much about it, but indeed, the intent here is to use the LIC's as buffer capacity. The only difference is that their high capacitance can buffer longer current surges of around half a second compared to classic capacitors that only just equalise current peaks caused by motor spools and electronic voltage regulators (also called Choppers).

[@IONYVDFC]

@@Jarmezrocks The voltage rating of capacitors refers to the maximum voltage that they are allowed to take. Above this voltage rate, they usually start to leak or short circuit internally, in other words: loose energy in the form of heat. A capacitor rated at 3.5v will surely flatten 30v peaks, but they will heat up and become inefficient instead of just acting like a buffer.

[@benda2250]

@@22KaTsh what happens ? What if I build a 1s drone with it ?

[@bzqp2]

Whoa, the drawing at 7:38 is at another level! :D

[@rubabmubarrat]

Price doesn't matter it will significantly reduce overtime, I bet.

[@dersg1freak]

Wow that new intro is so pretty :D thanks for doing what you do!

[@greatscottlab]

No problem ;-) I have lots of fun

[@emielleclercq]

Seems like the perfect battery for creating tiny portable spot welders. Thinking the size of a pen. Don't really see how that is useful but nonetheless...

[@greatscottlab]

Sounds possible though ;-)

[@Julio-yy4ll]

Maybe not useful for anything electronic but for an artisan building an art piece? Would be a godsend

[@emielleclercq]

@@Julio-yy4ll could for example be useful to repair a drone lion pack in the field.

[@MINERAL-115]

Loving the new video style, very polished!

[@greatscottlab]

Glad you like it!

[@kheavmady8780]

Do a reverse Voltage. We wanna know how it explode compare to a normal capacitor. just for science

[@greatscottlab]

Maybe as a #short. I will see ;-)

[@s4ndwichMakeR]

I weally like the development of your channel over the last years. Keep up the gweat work!

[@PeterMilanovski]

Somehow I feel that LTO cells should have been included in this video. They also come in capacitor style cans which can be PCB mounted... Available on Ali Express and feature long cycle life but cheaper than these new Super capacitors.... The LTO cells are probably a better solution than lithium ion batteries even though they are a bit more expensive....

[@OrionHCCC26]

What makes you think LTO are comparable in any way? Just curious. I am a lto battery business and have worked with then hands in extensively and the best they'll do is a 10c discharge, and that's pushing it. There is a variant prismatic type of LTO that does 20C pretty easily though. Specific energy is pretty low as well. But overall they are great, they have a 20 to 30,000 cycle life, and can work in extreme high and low temperatures without any problems. They are already used in China for public transportation buses and other similar auto uses.

[@brianwong6195]

I was about to bring up LTO cells which are the specific Li Ion cells that share the anode used in Lics (thus both share great power characteristics compared to other lithium or battery chemistries). People looking for high power density and usable energy density are more likely better served with a pure LTO cell pack rather a LICS and battery hybrid pack. What is NOT discussed in this video is 1) the charge to voltage curve of LICS; they are not congruent with li ion cells. Thus to build a hybrid pack, you need a DCDC voltage converter to control the power balance between the LICS and battery cells. This adds weight, complexity and energy loss to the equation. 2) The resistance of LICS or SCs in general are higher than battery cells. Of course, the pack configurations will be different whether you build a battery pack or LICS pack. But this should be the case for pretty much any usable pack configuration based on power, energy, weight or packaging requirements

[@brianwong6195]

You state LTOs are better than other lithium chemistries. I would challenge that stating that its dependent on what the use case is. LTOs are great where you need a lot of power, but not if you need a lot of energy. Maybe the 12v pack on a conventional vehicle where you need a lot of cold crank amps and the energy is not critical since the alternator takes over once you get the engine started. Not really for an EV where we are chasing more range; we have seen this with Tesla who has reserved their energy dense NMCs for their higher end applications such as CT and their LFEs for the M3.

[@OrionHCCC26]

@@brianwong6195 agreed. The only time LTO has been used for EV purposes is in China with their public transport bus system. Other than that there are only reserved for certain applications.

[@brianwong6195]

@@OrionHCCC26 Yeah I just read about that use case. Really cool! LTOs were a good balance of just enough energy and power density to do a a few loops.

[@peerappel2012]

Great video. I wasn't aware LICs existed and now I know their pros cons and purpose. Thanks :-)

[@sortofsmarter]

It would be cool to see you build a hybrid LIC and LiFePo4 battery pack with balance and charge board?

[@martylawson1638]

The LiC capacitors do have enough terminal voltage to make a good charge-pump ballincing circuit for LiFePO4

[@artursmihelsons415]

Another one great video! 👍 Thanks for testing new technologies! 😉

[@AnthonyGoodley]

You should look into Headway Lifepo4 batteries. The red version. Up to 200 Amp sustained continuous discharge rate! Very safe and a much longer duty cycle than Lithium Ion batteries. 4 Headway in series will make a wrench glow. 8 in series will literally melt a Craftsman wrench in half!

[@AnthonyGoodley]

A place called *Battery Hook Up* (all one word. Another blocked word uggg) usually keeps Headways in stock. I've bought from them before and they are reputable.

[@lordjaashin]

@@AnthonyGoodley nice advertisement, brotha. keep grinding

[@AnthonyGoodley]

@@lordjaashin To be clear I am in no way affiliated with either those batteries or the company I mentioned. I only mention Headway batteries because for one thing they are relevant to this video. Two they are very impressive out of all types of battery technology. Look them up and you will see too. Car audio competition people use these batteries. How loud can we get sorta thing. When your pumping so many watts that not even two or three alternators are enough then they use Headways. These are not cheap batteries at all. But you get what you pay for as the saying goes.

[@africanelectron751]

Built some super capacitor based starter batteries for track motorcycles years ago. Good to see the technology has evolved.

[@lisboris4479]

Привет автор канала. Контент годный, спасибо за него

[@mickeyagrawal2001]

People in the comment section discussing the technicals. You are the coolest people on Earth

[@solidfuel0]

Is this German accent or what?

[@oziozilas3217]

yep scott is german

[@GnarpyGaming-shimmyYa]

"Ba-da-wees" I love the way he says batteries

[@poppatang4216]

It’s German with the “weewy??” lisp

[@PhatPhinx]

thanks for posting, ive been thinking of adding supercaps to an airsoft gun for a while for a consistant cycle rate and this video covered all of the pros and cons

[@bens4446]

Very nice, but it looks like Taiyo Yuden is not making these anymore. Do you have any idea why? Can you recommend an alternative source? Googling doesn't turn up anything.

[@jcwdenton]

Literally a holy grail of capacitors, I’m up to get some soon

[@techydude]

thanks, i hadn't heard of LICs until now! very useful. p.s. the way you pronounce "batterwies" is absolutely adorable 😘

[@greatscottlab]

Glad you liked it!

[@miguelribeiro5165]

hybrid batteries will for sure be the future for EV's. Regen is a big player in the overall efficiency of an EV and EV's could get a boost of performance from one of this.

[@davidjames1684]

Car audio, for peak demands, so not as many heavy and expensive batteries are needed. The batteries (and alternator) can handle the normal loads, and supercaps can handle the peaks, then recharge quickly to prepare for the next peak). Either a very large supercap, or a bunch of smaller ones to do the same job.

[@NiHaoMike64]

If it's purely for setting dB records, just couple the engine to a diaphragm as the Mythbusters did. Or build a pulsejet engine...

[@uzidore]

This was very interesting to watch, thank you for this information. Liked (:

[@tinkmarshino]

That was extremely informative.. It has given me some ideas..

[@stevenA44]

Well this is an interesting topic. I didn't know about super capacitors, much less the lithium ones! I'll have to look into those.

[@greatscottlab]

Go for it :-)

[@krisnaanandakusuma9426]

One of the reason why i watch great scott videos, is because i can keep up to date with the latest technology. Thank you for producing such videos.

[@DingleFlop]

I could imagine building a super high power arc lighter using this. The main battery slowly charges the super cap, then the cap dumps all of its energy into the arc circuitry, creating a super high energy arc for a few seconds, and then back off again for charging.

[@jszabolcs]

nice video! my nephew has an rc car that has a 250mah lithium capacitor. never heard of that before. I only found it out because the car stopped working and charging. Tourned out that its charger broke, only gave 1volt, so was the battery also down to 1v, but its a capacitor, so I charged it with the needed 4.2v and it works fine still.

[@Vilvaran]

Li-Ion comes in a capacitor form-factor too, these tall green things - usually used in E-cigs. This is like how some MOSFETs come in a DIP-8 package - only by checking the traces can you tell at a glance, it is NOT an op-amp! Then again, TO-92 / SOT-23 is a nightmare, with basically every silicon component under the sun being packaged in these footprints, your only hope is to memorize the part numbers!

[@ZeroMass]

Is there also the occurrence of damage when charged in sub zero temps?

[@TechsScience]

I have electric sigar which has capacitor as power souce & the charging lasts for atleast 1hr while continuous use.

[@cassvirgillo3395]

Hey GS, Thank you for the many years of great content and teaching electronics. As a long time loyal sub, you have my views. I kinda miss the old intro, but, the new one looks cool as well. All the Best from Oregon, C.

[@rocheuro]

great video, you explained and I learned! :D

[@DigitalJedi]

I could see these being great for EV batteries or even better, micromobility batteries. Most trips from home are under 20km round trip, at least according to local data. If these could provide the first 10% of the capacity of a small EV with 200km of range, they would take a ton of load off the more sensitve batteries and help them live longer. It would be like those plug-in hybrid cars that can do similar ranges on just the small battery, and then kick on the gas engine once it goes flat, but with no gas engine at all. You spend the first part of your trip running on the caps, and once they go flat, the battery tops them up again. You could set up the battery system to only put as much power into the caps as needed to keep them level after that, which would isolate the batteries from the current spikes of acceleration and braking.

[@anim8dideas849]

Im gonna try something like this with a bike or a scooter, if the cap die ill just pedal to the nearest outlet 😂.

[@royrice8597]

Not until they solve the “instant discharge”problem. 👍👍👍

[@cypresstwist]

I really like your videos. :) Very informative.

[@fraaggl]

i use supercondensators for my cordless solar drill, and i love getting power until the last volt ! Even when there is only a few volts the battery still deliver a lot of amp ! And it charges in minutes with small solar panels. i love it ! I think those Lithium condensator need a little bit more improvement you haven't shown how they explodes when overcharged, or discharged !

[@astroblemeRC]

Even when I was young I saw these components and knew that someone someday would have the capacity to make something great with them!

[@floppydisk4500]

My gods I love the new intro it's so cute

[@transgrl]

Really good video as always! Really miss your old intro

[@mtalhakhalid1679]

put a lic in your clock run forever and charge them when the battery is low or use those in one of the DS3231 RTC modules or inside PC for powering BIOS

[@User78347]

great vid as always and thanks for uploading in 2k

[@greatscottlab]

No problem 👍

[@macherlakomaraiah2358]

Because of ur video I came to now about lithium ion capacitors. You share alot of knowledge about electronics

[@johnslugger]

I made a home made Super-Cap battery for my truck 11 years ago. It still retains 99.8% of its original performance. With the cost of LEAD batteries sitting at $200.00 each now I like may car 'starter' battery that will last for another 35 years. It's going to save me a ton of money! With modern fuel injected cars you do not need more than 3 cranks to get a car started and then the Alternator takes over. Sure it's NO GOOD for a "tail gate party" but if all you need to do is start your car its plenty of power year after year after year. I went hunting in Alaska one fall and let the truck sit for 3 weeks at -10 F. and when I got back she started right up! All I have is 6 beer can sized Maxwell super caps in series. No balancing board needed. EZ and cheap! Lead batteries? NEVER AGAIN!!!!

[@hquanngd]

Nice video Scott! As always, I wake to 23h to watch you ;)

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for watching :-)

[@blanana_m]

The physics behind super capacitors are crazy

[@kylehotovy5523]

Ive been using supercapacitors since the 90's , one of Phoenix golds first capacitor banks was actually made with 2.7 volt supercaps , super caps charge fast and release fast , regular capacitors have already been replaced with supercaps and lithium batteries . battery and caps together are a perfect match ! capacitor shave the current to start things and i see that alot of freight companies are using capacitor banks in there fleets , they are high priced because the demand made them that way , just go on ebay and do some hagling or contact me! Nice video my man , bout time folks talked about super caps!

[@allthegearnoidea6752]

Wow great video. Those super capacitors are scary in terms of the current they can bump. Best regards Chris

[@Ruiluth]

I've been waiting and waiting for this technology to mature for model railroad applications. Model locomotives draw power from the track via conductive wheels, but if there's dirt or other non-conductive material on the rail, the current flow is interrupted and the whole train abruptly stops. Supercapacitors are the perfect solution to this, because they can charge very quickly when contact is there, and then suddenly and powerfully kick in to ride through the gap. It only takes a fraction of a second of power, but it has to kick in instantly, and then recharge before it's needed again. Capacitors work way better than batteries, but until recently they couldn't store enough energy to be useful. Now it seems that they can, and I'm just waiting for them to be miniaturized enough for me to put them in all my N scale models.

[@ictogon]

that's interesting, I always assumed model trains were battery powered

[@Ruiluth]

@@ictogon only some of the very large ones, the smaller scales haven't yet developed small enough batteries and radio gear to work that way

[@mtalhakhalid1679]

thanks, sir your video are awosm always inspire me with new ideas

[@christopherleubner6633]

They are best combined with bateries to take on huge impulse loads. For example starting motors, high current inverters, or extreme filtering for rapidly changing loads like high power audio amplifiers.

[@monstercameron]

I was looking into power responder and licap recently. Thanks for this video.

[@greatscottlab]

No problem 👍

[@wiiu7640]

In something like Air Pods this could be really useful since it is less likely to explode, holds a charge longer, and works best at small voltages. The only problem would be the size, but I'm sure they will improve in the near future.

[@thefreedomguyuk]

They are equally combustible