Are AA NiMH Batteries obsolete? Here is everything you need to know about them!

[@greatscottlab]

The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/greatscott11211

[@_ZeeshanTahir]

Please make a balance charger that you use in your this video

[@_ZeeshanTahir]

Plz

[@ELECTROGYAN]

Hey Scott I am also content creator Can make video for the behind scene where you explain How you make videos I hope you will get the point

[@maxmyzer9172]

Have you seen the AA batteries that have a USB port inside to charge them? their life is not great but they seem convenient.

[@orion310591RS]

@@maxmyzer9172 That depends how its made. I got powerbank like that from Aliexpress and I use it for almost 3-4 years. If not used let it stay fully charged.

[@emilong]

A random favorite thing about this channel is telling us honestly about the time used to build a circuit. So many other channels would say this circuit took them "a few minutes" to build rather than 3 hours, which is much more realistic.

[@rockytom5889]

1 engineer minute= 1 normal hour.

[@greatscottlab]

Keeping it real ;-)

[@AbdullahAlmosalami-rg8dt]

Even 3 hours may not be realistic. Depending on your skill level and bumps you face along the way, could take days.

[@Swwils]

You can get lipo cells in AA size that feature a modern boost converter so they always output 1.5v with low ripple, the better quality ones also graciously drop voltage when nearing low capacity so they imitate the voltage drop of alkaline AA cells for devices that measure slow battery on the voltage drop.

[@greatscottlab]

Good to know

[@GeertGoossens]

yep big clive did a video about these: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpLOnmeolp2LrJI

[@senorcapitandiogenes2068]

Yes, and every single one of those that I tried had a very low capacity and a high self-discharge. All garbage

[@dennis_m]

I think it's a buck converter to drop the 3.7V, not a boost.

[@NBspark]

love it

[@nicholashamblin3]

I've been using two NIMH batteries for my mini shaver for backpacking. To charge them I put two of them in series and use direct 5 volts manually. I use a small USB power meter so that I can measure the capacity that has been charged. I will hold the 2 batteries to the USB supply at 5 volts for 30 to 60 seconds until they start to warm up a bit and then disconnect the power until they cool down and repeat the process until the approximate capacity has been reached. This has been working for years for me with no detrimental effects. I realized that it isn't ideal but it works and I've been using the same pair of batteries for a few years now. Have a great day love your videos I have learned so much from you my friend.

[@TCPUDPATM]

Great video. I replaced all AA batteries with Gen 1/2 Enelooop NiMH 10 years ago, and they’ve all lasted for an incredibly long time with NO corrosion. Surprisingly, they have suffered low degradation to boot. I’m very happy with the technology in low tech uses such as the kitchen scale, thermometers, thermostat, remotes, clocks, etc. i have 15 in use constantly.

[@jimmybrad156]

How long would you say a white eneloop AA typically lasts in a bog standard (no screen / digital features) wall clock?

[@Cotterpin_Doozer]

@@jimmybrad156 I have 2 eneloop AAA's in my stormtrooper bedside digital clock, lasts about a year and a half before needing recharging when the lcd display fades.

[@crimsonhalo13]

Still got the NiMHs I bought circa 2005. Almost no drop in capacity. They're a combination of original Eneloops and President's Choice (Eneloop clones or rewraps). All made in Japan to tight specs. It amazes me to see they're still usable and competitive nearly two decades later. Never had any leaks or failures.

[@aleksandersats9577]

NiMH are really robust along with NiCD

[@edwardfletcher7790]

You'll still be using them in 10yrs in remote controls 👍

[@estegerset]

My uncle has nicad batterys from the 80s that still charge and work

[@vinnysworkshop]

See? Even George W. Bush prefers using Ni-MH over Alkaline.

[@bacphan7582]

One of the benefit of NiMh is it can be stored at full charge for a long time, while the lipo does not like being at that state( or else it will get puffy), a better choice for emergency device(flashlights)

[@suppar8066]

Well they can discharge a reasonable amount after a while so you should maybe change them with fresh ones every year maybe. Thats just important because you meantioned emergency lights which should definitly work when needed.

[@antkoos]

Wait, is that why my Nokia batteries were puffing up? I remember seeing it and then not using it for like half a month

[@bacphan7582]

@@antkoos yup, especially in warm/hot temperature, you dont want to leave your lipo in full charge for a long time. It's really bad for them

[@vgamesx1]

True, but you don't need to leave a lithium cell fully charged, 70-80% charge is fine and still a lot of energy, also my cheap 18650 flashlights are way better than the AA flashlights I've used, maybe the new ones are better but yes even with an led the ones I had were still dimmer and bulkier.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

NiMH do self discharge over time but they don't suffer the same problems lipo cells do, they don't get damaged sitting uncharged

[@artursmihelsons415]

I'm still, time to time, use NiMH cells in projects.. All depends on requirements, size, price etc.. Great thing, that in case of NiMH, there is no need to integrate charger and protection circuit.. Extra bonus - as emergency, standard AA or AAA batteries from supermarket can be inserted.. 😂 Great video, as always! 👍

[@Makoto778]

Yeah, I still use NiMH (especially eneloops) for small solar projects. All you would need is a resistor to limit current for trickle charging (or just not use a resistor if its a very small solar panel). If you really need a faster charge, you could just spare a I/O and analog adc pins to switch a mosfet (for current limiting) and stop charging when battery reaches 1.4V.

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks and thanks for the feedback :-)

[@vinnysworkshop]

I have seen Ni-MH batteries for sale at Walmart, but they are always at the bottom shelf of the battery section, because the people who make them don't want you to buy them. They prefer you buy alkaline, because you have to go back to the store for more, increasing profits.

[@richardhewitt6314]

I love how the narration is a real person, and a fine voice as well. And it was a very informative video too! NiHM has the one big advantage in safety in my opinion.

[@YensR]

A good overview- I personally love the interchangeability of AA batteries and use Eneloops in cameras, flashes, clocks, room thermostats and projects. Charge them up, put them into a drawer and you'll be fine, they are robust when you drop them, create no fire if you short-circuit them and no puffy LiPos because you charged them but somehow forgot to use them soon after.

[@mikaellindqvist5599]

Exactly. I threw out a smoking 18650 cell the other day after putting it in the wrong way in my headlamp. It didnt even get in properly before reacting and burst into smoke and fizzling. Clumpsy yes. But i have used them for a long time but NI-MH for alot longer and never had something like this happen before if i out them the wrong way i just didnt get any light.

[@IncroyablesExperiences]

I think a main "advantage" is 1.2V close to 1.5V Alkaline, that's why it exists in 14500 format and they won't disappear until AA primary batteries will!

[@AjdamusMagnus]

Well definetely. Li-Ion cant replace NiMH in AA/AAA space bcs voltate is way too damn high. We would have need toss all devices we have. And there is also another point - NiMH wont blow your face and pocket up..when they are faulty. Did you ever seen flames from bad Li-Ion? Like.. i dont want do that. Bud if Li-Ion are produced in quantity like AA/AAA we will have some good old burning damage

[@ionstorm66]

@@AjdamusMagnus You can use a single lithium ion and a slug for the second battery.

[@RWoody1995]

No reason you couldn't sell "AA" sized Li-ion cells where the cell is 1 or 2mm shorter than AA and then a buck converter fills the remaining space to convert the 3.7V down to 1.5V, would even make them safe to short as the buck converter could be current limited.

[@IncroyablesExperiences]

@@RWoody1995 There are AA/9V batteries with such DC/DC system but it's not appropriate for low consumption devices (most devices that still use AA batteries). At low power, the self consumption of the DC/DC converter is way higher than the device consumption! A LCD device can consume something 10 µA while the DC/DC will always draw something like 1mA at rest.

[@Blox117]

but there are AA li ion batteries. derp

[@gplustree]

They work really, really well in small "EDC" flashlights... the LED tech + boost converter tech in recent quality flashlights means you can get a LOT of light out of a AA eneloop before it's dead.

[@baneverything5580]

I have a set of heavily used NiMH AA batteries from late 2016 that still work fine. I use NiMH cells in my radio receiver collection and use USB and 12 volt chargers so I can recharge with portable solar panels after hurricanes. I`ve tested them in high heat and very cold weather with no issues.

[@konserv]

One of the advantages of NiMH batteries is that they work great in winter. This is helpful, at least, for different outdoor sensors.

[@Goodmanperson55]

In RC plane circles, I've seen the term "Delta V charging" to refer to the more sophisticated charging scheme done by that IC and is also found in the Sanyo battery charger. Basically, it tries to detect a drop in the voltage being taken by the cell as it nears the end of its charging and turns off based on that. There's also a concept called "forming charge" where sets of NiMH cells are trickle-charged together at a slightly elevated current to intentionally (and very slightly) degrade them to the exact same capacity, essentially creating a matched battery set and avoiding any individual cell overdischarging during use without the need of a BMS.

[@CircsC]

How does the forming charge work if they're all starting out slightly different though?

[@ToumalRakesh]

FYI, du/dt is not a charge method, but a cutoff method. You can have this kind of cutoff with various actual charge methods, for example Reflex charging.

[@samik83]

That's why slow charging NiMH batteries is not a really good idea. The charger will most likely miss the drop in voltage as it so small when slow charging. Usually, only an issue if you're charging high-capacity NiMH batteries with cheap / low amperage chargers. It will just keep pushing juice till the timer cuts if off, unnecessarily heating up the batteries and possibly shortening their life span. You should go with a charge rate of 0.6-1 C for it to work properly.

[@charleshorseman55]

How does the slightly elevated current degrade them? Would it attempt to overcome a resistance in one of the cells?

[@fryode]

I remember investing in some NiMH AA cells back in 2000. I was shocked at how much better they were compared to NiCd cells. I had an old laptop I was still using for writing and converted the battery pack from NiCd to NiMH and doubled the runtime. I just had to charge it outside of the machine until I made some changes to the charge board.

[@stevenclark2188]

And at the time Li-Ion basically gave another doubling but was expensive.

[@Isaacmantx]

NiMh shines when you need a rechargeable solution for low temps. I recently used NiMH AA’s for some small solar powered 12V battery packs for some wildlife cameras. No other chemistry would work for potential below freezing charging. The goal was cheap, small, and simple. So, I didn’t want a bms, much less one complicated enough for a low temp shut-off.

[@SanthoshRamaraj]

7:09 Most overlooked functionality of the Sanyo NiMh charger is that it does not charge cells individually but in pairs. Even if you depleted only one cell, you need two cells to start the charge process. I have seen old Sanyo NiMh chargers were per cell, there will be four LEDs and spec'd for per cell charging.

[@webchimp]

I ditched my old charger and got one that did individual instead of pair charging as I had several things that took odd numbers of batteries and it was a pain to keep matching them so they charged properly

[@und4287]

Most NiMh chargers charge 2 batteries at a time, not just the Sanyo one.

[@greentjmtl]

Those models have 4 independent channels, you are talking about ancient dollar store chargers.

[@lolerie]

And? There is no memory problems with Panasonic Eneloop.

[@WOLFMOTHER1257]

Makes me glad I bought bought the Panasonic wall charger

[@JxH]

2:27 "My trusty Eneloop ones..." The IKEA 2450mAh AA 'Ladda' cells are apparently precisely the same. Not just similar, but *precisely* the same. Specifications the same. Test results the same. Made in the same unique factory in Japan. Price Comparison: 5:42 shows €15.52 for 4 pack. The 'same' cells from IKEA are Cdn $8.99 (Pkg of 4) which is €6.25. So the price comparison is now upside down.

[@dl8cy]

True, True, True.... i bought nothing else as IKEA Ladda in the last years. Absolutely relayable!

[@beware_the_moose]

Yeah they are as good if not identical

[@nowjoel2830]

waoo, thx for the info.

[@webchimp]

I've started replacing my old rechargeables with Ladda batteries. Wasn't until I started to add up what I needed that I realised how many rechargeables I have scattered about the flat. Going to cost me a fortune.

[@JxH]

@@webchimp Buy them slowly. There are some gadgets that don't like the lower voltage (1.2 vice 1.5), but some things either don't mind or actually are intended to accept NiMH cells. I'm quite far ahead, for a daily-use flashlight that used to cost me ~$2 a month in alkaline cells. Cheers.

[@tin2001]

Solar lights are still a great place for NiMH cells. As are TV and airconditioning remote controls. We also use paired (capacity tested, matched as close as possible) NiMH cells at our church for the wireless microphones. They run for around 10-12 hours off them, and we only really use them for about 2-3, so we aren't particularly worried about them dying mid service.

[@gnramires]

Great video. Two very interesting advantages I like about them are that (1) They don't self-discharge! (at least the eneloop), it says it has a 10 year shelf life time. (2) They last for many more cycles, don't degrade as much. That makes them ideal for low power devices like controllers, multimeters, wireless mouse and keyboard, where it would be bothersome to recharge them all the time. I think the difference in energy is not that bad.

[@Calthecool]

The manufacturers also might be assuming that you are using all of the same brand of NiMH battery, so they will always be the same voltage so they don’t care about monitoring the cells individually.

[@mjc0961]

Yeah, I found it weird that there were two different types of batteries plugged into the same device. Personally I wouldn't do that.

[@chocolate_squiggle]

Every single device I've read the battery label for has some or all warnings like do not mix battery chemistries, brands, old/new, or full/partially charged batteries. This guy had two brands of wildly differing capacities and while I understand people do it, they are warned not to. He probably wouldn't do the same with 2x lithium cells of different brands and capacities so I thought this was a bit silly.

[@scottwilliams895]

Great video, very informative. I was surprised that you didn't include any discussion of *life cycles* for the various batter chemistries. And then perhaps, a cursory review of the impacts of charge rate, discharge rate, max charge voltage on the life cycles.

[@gamtax]

Yeah, I think it will be a great series for introducing all available battery chemistries for consumers. About NiMH lifecycle, I saw mixed numbers just like good old NiCd. The lower the capacity, the higher its charge cycle. But high capacity NiCd tends to have higher internal resistance though unlike NiMH.

[@PaintmanJohn]

WOW! an engineer that we can ALL understand ! Danke !

[@zmanicminer]

Great tips on charging. I really need to get a smarter charger, my current one only does trickle charge although it does let you set the time/current values. It might not be the greatest battery tech but it’s used almost exclusively by toys!

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks :-) Sounds like an interesting charger you got

[@aleksandersats9577]

Just keep in mind smart chargers will not charge batteries that have too high of a resistance or if it detects something is wrong. I have about 8 NiMH batteries that work fine and even keep the charge but the smart charger does not charge it and blinks. So now I have 2 chargers to fix this issue and keep using the rechargeable batteries.

[@patrickriarchy6054]

La Cross chargers are ok. Some even have settings to attempt to refresh damaged NiMH cells.

[@edstar83]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3qqYmuFmMaVosU

[@Boogie_the_cat]

For my low power cat toy device use, inexpensive NiMH work well for me. They do the job, and I don't have to worry about catastrophic destruction when my cat abuses the toy. Lithium batteries are great, but I don't really trust them in products that are getting dropped on the floor from 5+ feet up, which regularly happens with my cat's toys.

[@EspenFrafalne]

With flashlights NiMH batteries tend to provide a very stable output (brightness) until the end of its charge. Flashlights running on Li-ion batteries tend to dim gradually all the way from the beginning, before getting a much steeper drop in brightness at the end. As i prefer very dim lights for night hikes, NiMH batteries allows me to use a flashlight with a very low setting, without having to worry about it getting too dim when the battery still has half of its charge left. Finding a flashlight that gives me JUST enough light for my needs, gives me very good runtimes. With Li-ion batteries, i would have to find a flashlight with a bit higher brightness than i prefer, so it is still bright enough towards the end of its charge... As i prefer dim lights, i prefer NiMH...

[@iggysixx]

Advantages not mentioned in the video; Number of charging cycles of quality AA NiMH batteries is MASSIVELY higher than Li-ion / LiPo batteries. Normal good ones; 500+ cycles Eneloop (also IKEA AA); 2100+ (!!) cycles Also, the newer NiMH batteries last longer, and have a much higher output. The good / pro grade ones can be used as a replacement in high drain devices, like DSLR cameras and camera flashes. I use the Eneloop (official, as well as IKEA branded) in my DSLR - they last way longer than the original branded Lithium-ion battery pack, and charge the flash just fast. Also, they keep their charge WAAAY longer. Eneloop (most well documented, that's why keep naming them) still has 85% charge after 1 year on the shelf. And, as you mentioned, they are tougher, and more forgiving when it comes to abuse / mismanagement. And as a replacement for disposable AA batteries... They are AMAZINGLY better for the environment (or 'less of a burden' on it, at least); If 1 rechargeable battery can outlast 500 disposable batteries. That's 499 batteries that do not need to be disposed of. The only downside (which is not that bad, if you have an extra set of batteries already charged up) - is the charging time; 8 hours is a long time :) . But yeah - I keep a charged set at hand, so I don't have to wait those 8 hours. Problem solved. €5,99 for 4 batteries with such quality and longevity... That's nothing in this day and age. * FYI: about the IKEA = Eneloop thing; IKEA batteries (AA 2450mAh), are made in Japan. Apparently there is only 1 factory that produces batteries in Japan itself (rest is outsourced). The factory belongs to Sanyo / Panasonic. And the only thing they make there is Eneloop batteries. This was theorized by a clever guy on the internet, and the theory has since been tested by many reputable tech websited and magazines; All have come to the conclusion that the specs match those of official branded Panasonic (Sanyo) Eneloop batteries. In some cases the IKEA branded batteries even exceed the specification (more so than Eneloop branded ones)

[@fredynuts]

Fdk corporation is the factory in Japan who made the cells, spot on you're review mate.

[@iggysixx]

@@fredynuts Oh, cool :) I didn't know the name of the factory. (I did research if the "1 factory in japan" was true, though. You know.. Before telling other people :)) And thanks :) I did quite some digging (aka. "Went down some rabbit holes of information, when I was bored.. And broke". Haha I'm always on the lookout for ways to have quality tools and tech stuff for cheap, and how to reduce waste / repurpose / repair things -..and the IKEA batteries thing fit quite nicely into that mindset. So I figured it was well worth looking into :)) Actually ran some tests (like.. Just 2. So it's more anecdotal evidence than scientific. But picked random ones from my stash; 1 Eneloop, 1 IKEA), using one of those 'professional' (well, probably more 'advanced hobbyist') grade battery chargers. (It's a SkyRC B6 mini, I think. I use it to charge / inspect / revive power tool batteries too - does everything from Ni-Cad to LiPo).. Anyways - the randomized tests came out as same capacity; so same results as the tests I had seen online. And as anecdotal evidence (not measured); I have a Pentax K200d DSLR. And the rechargeable batteries (both Eneloop and IKEA) seem to last about as long as a fresh pack of high end alkaline batteries. (The output stays high for longer, in contrast to various other rechargeable name brand NiMH AAs that I have) * Sorry for the long text again :) (Kind of happens automatically when I'm talking about subjects that I feel strongly about) And again, thanks for your positive feedback :)

[@CYDeviant]

They are really good for lighting in dioramas. No need for charging, or low voltage protection, and they last for years with a charge. I like how you clamped onto magnets stuck onto the ends of the batteries.

[@pperrinuk]

I have a big box full of charged rechargeable batteries - when I need to swap I grab some charged ones and the old go on charge and when charged they go in the box -- I really don't care if the charge takes an hour, week or month... I do not have *one battery* exclusively for *one device* - for most of my devices time to discharge is not an issue, I just swap batteries more... For a drone flying etc that is different, but 90% of my devices using batteries they are used 'occasionally' not from full charge to empty in one go..

[@aterxter3437]

Thanks a lot for the video : In one of my engineering projects, I was nearly refused the use ofe lithium batteries (they asked for integrated short circuit protection, balance charging,...) I just needed to power 4 servos to change the geometry of a parachute in mid flight, I went for 4 AA 2400mah nimh batteries

[@1337GameDev]

Honestly - you should have mentioned the one thing that's BAD for lipo / li-ion batteries - Sitting for awhile and use in emergency devices. NiMH are great for this afaik, as they don't lose as much current and aren't damaged by undervolt if they aren't charged as frequently.

[@77chevy4x4]

Yep the low drain on lipos. Boy they get all outta shape about it …

[@matsv201]

You should never have nimh in emergancy devices on standby. There is speciall cells for that. The Nimh battery you are going to use in case of a emergancy needs to be in the charger at all time Ikea have a 12 battery chrager.

[@tythagoras5787]

I love my NiMH batteries. For most of my projects under 2 watts, I use a AA NiMH cell. My favorite PMIC is the TPS6102x family. TPS61029 can deliver a fair amount of current (rated 1.8 amps at the switch, but that's more than an AA can source, especially given it's a boost converter) and will work down to .8V input. It can also go into LDO mode if the voltage is a slightly higher than the programmed output and the output current is low. It has UVLO, so it can cut off the boost circuit when the battery gets too low, programmable by voltage divider. Best part is, for 5V projects, it will happily accept a Lithium cell or array of NiMH cells. It's only boost, so no buck-boost operation. SC8729 is great for buck-boost operation, but you need at least 2 cells, as it's dropout voltage is too high for single NiMH operation.

[@Bhavesh_g20]

Great video I had some of these batteries laying around uselessly And after knowing about those circuits I can definitely give respect to those batteries

[@greatscottlab]

Glad I could help

[@aryankatiyar1086]

:)

[@ed.peguillan.3]

Thanks!

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the support :-)

[@peetiegonzalez1845]

It's worth noting that Eneloops also come in a 1500mAh version. The lower capacity ones have a much higher cycle-life. It's also worth noting that IKEA LADDA 2450mAh batteries are identical to Eneloop pro at a fraction of the cost.

[@PlaceholderforBjorn]

This!

[@martinweizenacker7129]

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know that applies to the no longer sold white LADDA cells, but the 2450 mAh ones Ikea is currently selling are different.

[@pssnyder]

The explanation of using internal resistance to determine max discharge rates of batteries was super helpful. I've always wondered how to determine what the safe discharge rate of my various battery types is. Thanks!

[@capnthepeafarmer]

I use NiMH batteries all the time for my Xbox controllers, they've lasted so long and have paid for themselves many times over. Especially compared with normal batteries that when I do need them they've leaked all over the place and are unusable.

[@3DSage]

I always look forward to seeing a new video uploaded by you! Makes my day.

[@LakshmananLM]

I've been using Eneloop batteries since 2007. The original ones are still going strong. AAA, and AA. I haven't bought batteries since that time.

[@jimmybrad156]

Did you have any devices that weren't quite as good? Eg. dim screen / slower motor?

[@swirrllfolfsky9803]

I personally like NiMH batteries because you can refresh the battery 'memory' by charging at a higher voltage. I've had a dozen NiMH batteries going strong for 6 years for both my xb360 and xb1 controllers

[@NoorquackerInd]

According to LinusTechTips, NiMH has a much longer lifespan than any lipo alternative, and he drives this home in a recent-ish WAN Show podcast where he applauds Microsoft for sticking to AAs in their Xbox controllers because "if a device contains a lipo, it is guaranteed to become e-waste in 10 years"

[@ladmad9196]

or just use li-ion AAs. linus isnt a great source for any information tbh. not relevant to the topic tho

[@JamesMyatt1]

That might be more about replaceability.

[@gblargg]

Digital camera from 10 years ago, forget about getting it to work without having to make your own battery pack or pay a lot for an obscure battery format. But if it was one of those that took AA batteries, no problem!

[@noahfodor6427]

I’m working on a portable neopixel light project that is powered off 3 AAs. I was just doing research on types of possible rechargeable batteries and couldn’t understand much information on NiMH AA batteries. This is absolutely perfect. Thanks!

[@kwinzman]

Yes this is the biggest downside of NiMH IMHO. Lipo just charge it with constant current, constant voltage. NiMH: you need to have error prone and complicated deltaV charging. Also for deltaV charging you need to know the battery capacity so you don't charge them too quickly or too slowly.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

@@kwinzman Li-po or Li-ion: capacity is needed to select proper CC current (0,3C to 1C or above in some cells, see datasheet for exact figure). Some cells like slow charging like my LG M50T 21700 (0,3C - recommended charging current from datasheet, 0,7C - acceptable at 25°C to 45°C) Ni-Mh: capacity is needed to select proper fastcharge current (C/2-2C). Some care must be taken if already full cell is loaded into a charger.

[@SenkusJulius]

For me important fact was low temperature handling and NiCd even better in that and LTO the best, so I think this advantage is quite important.

[@gblargg]

doesn't NiCd also have higher current rating than NiMH? They aren't obsolete technology as suggested in the video.

[@torukojinnn6331]

Great video , sir! Exactly what i was looking for, respect from 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷

[@pessimism056]

Personally I refuse to use lithium batteries in my projects due to the extreme fire and burn risk if they suffer any physical damage or a power surge due to component failure. This risk is always brushed aside but needs to be taken more seriously. I am tracking development of LiFePO4 cells which are moderately less volatile than the highly unsafe lithium ion and lithium ion polymer cells.

[@jp9403]

My thoughts exactly

[@roflchopter11]

LiFePO4 batteries are very tolerant of abuse. I was at an event where a NiMH battery for a prototype electric car caught fire either during of immediately after charging. Lithium ion batteries, including 18650 cells are available with integral protection systems that will protect the batteries from electrical abuse.

[@MrCh0o]

Gotta love the username in the context of the comment

[@clixium]

That only happens in extreme situations, I only use lithium batteries and never had a problem

[@baneverything5580]

@@clixium Lithium ion batteries killed 14 of my farm animals.

[@kevgermany]

Thanks. Couple of points. When using multiple AA or others, there's always been a requirement to use identical new cells. For rechargeables this translates into fully charged and identical. More modern devices can handle the lower voltage of NiMh compared to alkalines, but plenty cannot. Pricing I did for rechargeable lithium AA cells was a lot higher than NiMh.

[@arshia.sasson]

it's really more of a best practice. You can mix and match and it will work, but with diminished lifetime because you would strain one cell over the others. I remember changing out the batteries on my TI-84, and there would always be that one cell that was drained (it was usually the second cell) while the rest still had some life. Curiously, I always swapped the batteries around to get a few more weeks before replacing them all. For some reason, TI calculators always drained the second cell first (even though they are wired serially and they only see the sum voltage). You don't see this with proper design and following the "all new cells" rule. Nowadays, I see this with chinesium gadgets that always use up the lower cells first (even after following the rule), usually because they're drawing too much current and straining the cells.

[@kevgermany]

@@arshia.sasson And when you don't swap them, the lowest voltage cell always leaks

[@eDoc2020]

For devices which only use two cells (which seems to be most) it's usually fine to mix because the device will malfunction before the weak cell gets overdischarged. It's also fine to mix cells if it's just for temporary use. Just check them before installing. The rule about not mixing is IMO just for people without a multimeter.

[@kevgermany]

@@eDoc2020 Some of us want to fit, forget, without worries. Two cell devices don't always fail cos one is low. I have multimeters. I can't be bothered opening things up to measure cells cos I'm dumb enough to put unmatched cells in. Plenty of single cell devices to use up the odd single.

[@eDoc2020]

@@kevgermany I don't actually check the cells during normal use. I'll check them before installing in a device to make sure they're reasonably matched and then leave it alone until the device stops working. It might not be ideal but I haven't noticed any problems doing this.

[@lal12]

If you just buy the rechargeable batteries from your discounter the capacity price rating would be at around 2-3Wh/€, so by far the the leading one in the ranking.

[@Enderkruemel]

I replaced (mostly)all nimh Batteries whith li-ion or lipos. It is postible to change nimh to Lithium Batteries in Devices, if they use 3 nimh cells in series. I replaced the original nimh Batterie case whith old Phone Batteries and a tp4056,becourse the Lithium Based Batteries have much higher capacity and are very easy to Charge over usb.

[@soulshinobi]

An extremely helpful video would be retrofitting lithium batteries for devices that take AA!

[@vgamesx1]

I mean, that's pretty easy, so I'm not sure what you need a video for? Basically anything that runs on three AAs 4.5v-3v (or sets of three) will take a lithium cell with zero modification, then for one or two AAs all you need is a low dropout regulator or buck converter and finally a simple TP4056 for charging/protection or BMS for larger packs. Alternatively, you can make things slightly easier by scavenging batteries from old devices like phones, since those will have a bms built-in and can come in convenient sizes.

[@soulshinobi]

@@vgamesx1 the trouble is 1 AA at just 1.5v

[@patrickriarchy6054]

Most anything that requires 2xAA in series you can use an 14500 and a dummy cell.

[@soulshinobi]

@@patrickriarchy6054 My mouse takes just one AA 😕

[@MrCh0o]

To be fair, if a device uses AA, you will likely find NiMH much more fit than any lithium-based battery type Especially for a relatively low-power device such as a computer mouse

[@PhG1961]

Of course I enjoyed the video. I always do ! Wonderfull Sunday entertainment. In the morning from a guy with a Swiss accent, in the afternoon another guy, but this time with a German accent. Now I'm waiting for the guy with the Spanish accent to post a new video... Three of my hero's...

[@greatscottlab]

That is awesome!

[@innomkr]

I really appreciate how deep you get in the topics presented in your videos! I learned interesting things for NiMH batteries! It would be interesting to see a video about primary lithium cells such as Li-SOCl2 batteries from Saft, Tadiran and others. They have high internal resistance but very low self discharge rate and are very suitable for IoT projects when coupled with a supercapacitor.

[@krass76]

for low load currents, pre-made boost converters from China work perfectly! they will stop discharging the battery at 0.9V pretty much exactly, which is when you should stop discharging to prevent damage to the cell. also charge termination voltage of 1.50V is what Maha Powerex Chargers do, you don't need to charge to 100.00%

[@Raykkie]

What might be interesting would be to include the theoretical maximum cycles for the batteries with the prices. They could be cheaper for daily uses

[@jonasstahl9826]

My NiMH are about 15 years old and still work great. There where used for RC Cars when I was a child and are now used in my XBox Controller.

[@lolerie]

There is limit. Just 40% is lost after 3000 cycles for eneloop lite, for example.

[@gblargg]

Complicated by the dependence of Li Ion to the depth of discharge. They like not being charged up to 100% and not discharged to 0%.

[@lolerie]

@@gblargg yeah, that 3000 number is from discharging of NiMH to 1.0 volt not full to 0.9 volt.

[@Mote.]

3:18 that drawing is beautiful

[@bmitch3020]

I'm surprised you weren't testing with a La Crosse charger. It charges individual batteries separately, with monitoring of each battery status, and can refresh older batteries (full discharge/recharge cycles).

[@digitalcircuit]

I'm okay with handling bare lithium ion batteries, I've read about proper safe handling, have cases, a quality charger, etc. But for most non-technical folks, I'd recommend something that works with AA NiMH cells because that maintains the ability to easily replace the battery when it wears out - unlike integrated lithium battery packs which most consumer devices discourage you from replacing (glue, solder, etc). There are exceptions, e.g. flashlights with replaceable lithium cells that also have built-in charging, so the person using it doesn't have to worry quite as much about handling the cell directly. I wish that was more common.

[@facist_monk]

nicely explained, can you make a circuit which can forward-reverse a DC motor based on time or (specific rotations using some sensor). thanks idea is to take out butter from curd using such a machine using DC motor rather than AC ones.

[@greatscottlab]

I can put it on my to do list

[@facist_monk]

@@greatscottlab please do it.

[@jimmybrad156]

use a stepper motor and driver

[@socksonfeet8125]

I used to use Lipos in my hobbies but having to constantly think about the voltage and monitor the voltage with an alarm got exhausting. That drove me back to nimhs, as soon as I felt any loss in power it would be time to change batteries. And having used them for so long I kind of already know the expected run time without damaging the batteries. Even though its older tech they are still very much useable.

[@babaluto]

I discovered that when the NiMh lose capacity, cycling them seems to return them to near new levels. This seemed similar but not exact to the NiCd battery degradation issues with the older style cordless tools. I tried this theory on my 2008 Prius which uses NiMh batteries. There were several cells in the pack that identified as weak. I fully cycled each weak cell and four years later they are still good and now with 300k miles. Good topic.

[@exmerion]

How did you cycle those specific cells? did you remove them and cylce them or did you just discharge the entire pack? Also how did you identify weak cells? via OBD2?

[@babaluto]

@@exmerion I identified the three weak ones in the pack through the OBD port. From there, I disassembled the pack enclosure, unplugged the pack then disconnected/isolated the individual cells. I have a programmable battery analyzer and did a full discharge/charge/discharge/charge. They still seem to be holding up well. 260k miles on it now. Not saying, that I'm any kind of expert. Just did what I thought was logical. Hope this helps.

[@exmerion]

@@babaluto very helpful thanks

[@waynewilliamson4212]

my short answer to the obsolete is a big NO. Many of my remotes/flashlights/fire alarms etc use removable aaa/aa/d/c/9v. I just use the amazon basics where I can and have several sets of each that I rotate thru. The charger that I'm using allows a full discharge(push a button) and after about a year of use I've cycled them all to "reset" them. The one down side is they don't last as long as a duracell, but in the long term, each is probably worth 50 to 100 regular batteries. One other down side, is they won't power somethings. I realize this has nothing to do with the content of your video, but everything to do with the title. And yes this is another great video...keep them coming...

[@jan_harald]

TL;DW: basically main benefit is being robust, main flaw is not-so-great everything else (price, capacity, charging circuitry, size, etc)

[@chancho00]

Nickel cadmium battery's are still used in a lot of emergency lights in commercial buildings, and even new lights comes with those, I think is because of the high temperatures that those batteries can handle, some are starting to use lithium phosphate but not like those.

[@timhinchcliffe5372]

When buying Eneloops, make sure you get the ones made in Japan! 💯 🇯🇵 They make them in... _another..._ country too.

[@alexandres8846]

nimh one of the best rechargeable battery chemistries. good capacity. very safe. long useful life.

[@devnol]

Great video, but I think you forgot to mention how it can be used instead of single use standard size batteries (like AA) for commercial applications that can only take AA batteries. For example, you can't just use a LiPo on a game controller that takes AA batteries if you want something rechargable and easily replacable. I bought a set of AA NiMh batteries for my Wii remotes and despite the fact that they do charge really slowly, they're much cheaper in the long run than replacing single use AAs every time they get depleted.

[@gblargg]

I took his video about whether to make your own project run on them, or choose a self-contained cell.

[@YodaWhat]

There are also NiMH cells with built-in micro USB port and buck converter. While the space occupied by circuitry obviously detracts from cell size and capacity, those I have work very well, and can be charged either via USB, or a normal NiMH cell charger. As a bonus, each 4 cells came with a Y-adapter, for charging 2 cells at once from a single USB charging port. I have charged them from my laptop and from normal USB chargers and there is no discernible difference. Either way, they never get overcharged... Not that such is much of an issue, but it can dry out the electrolyte faster in some batteries.

[@blanana_m]

thank you for designing that charger, mine recently broke and killed half my batteries in the process

[@greatscottlab]

Oh damn

[@jimmybrad156]

what happened?

[@OregonDARRYL]

The last thing you want to do is buy a fast charger that overheats and destroys the batteries. They sell these right next to the batteries. It's a trap. Buy a good charger that gives you control and feedback. I also use a fan to cool while charging. Good information. Thanks, Scott!

[@sharonbraselton4302]

wribg

[@OregonDARRYL]

@@sharonbraselton4302 What?

[@ehrenloudermilk1053]

It would be interesting to see a video on lead acid batteries and their applications. I drive a forklift and use a tablet at work that all powered by massive lead acid batteries.

[@rh20111000]

Thank you for a good video. You're leaving out of additional advantages of the NiMH over Li batteries. - Toxicity. - Cycle life / Lifetime. - Charge / Discharge temperature range. In many cases the latter two completely disqualify Li batteries in outdoor applications. E.g. stand alone solar.

[@busterscrugs]

I've got a set of 4 energizer 2300mah NiMH AA batteries and they're still working great after 5 years. Not sure who came up with the idea that NiMH has a high self-discharge rate, two of my four cells I left in a keyboard that I didn't use for 3 years. When I finally started using it, it still powered on and didn't need a charge for two weeks lol

[@chestnutplanter]

I like the safety and cycle life longevity of lithium iron phosphate. It's becoming easier to find LFP batteries and components in different sizes now. Made a couple small projects using 18650 and 32650 LFP batteries and I like working with them.

[@vhfgamer]

Nickel Cadmium batteries do still have a use. They excel in extremely cold temperatures, and they tolerate long term trickling charging better.

[@0scr_]

0:38 oh my PKCELL, you look very different today...

[@iTobiasWP7]

I was looking for that comment xD

[@rosskrt]

This was a far better intro than the current one tbh

[@JinKee]

I wish you'd called this video "The Secrets of NiMH"

[@jimmybrad156]

Adam and NimH

[@stephenwilliams5201]

Nickle metal hydride. Runs my portable radios. And offers good service for my kit radios. So much that I have baught many for future use tks for good show.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

ßoarcrad beyer

[@bluesillybeard]

So basically: NiMH: safe, easy to use, rugged LiPo: high capacity, easy to charge, great for starting fires

[@SarahJayneClarke]

I have watched your channel for years just to realise it’s from back to the future

[@JonnyWaldes]

still using mine. i've had some eneloops 15 years and still function satisfactorily.

[@SmartZero-f8e]

15 years? WOW!

[@Rinkel80]

I love that nimh batteries don’t degrade overtime. I have ten year old eneloop that still have the advertised capacity. They are rock solid. Lithium will degrade. In use or not.

[@eDoc2020]

I've seen both of these types degrade quickly as well as last a long time. My Eneloops are one of the ones which still perform to spec but they also haven't been used much.

[@Rinkel80]

@@eDoc2020 They can degrade quickly with the wrong charger or in a leaking bike light in a Dutch winter. But most of them still working great. When they have problems I use the breakin on my Skyrc MC3000. Highly recommended charger for Eneloops.

[@eDoc2020]

@@Rinkel80 I use a La Crosse charger for my Eneloops and most of my NiMHs (and the occasional NiCd). I'll occasionally use an old dumb charger but only on batteries which are already pretty much toast. And of course the main benefit of using regular AA NiMHs which IIRC GS didn't mention is that they are easily replaceable.

[@laszlozoltan5021]

the subject (comparision of rechageable batteries) and information in this video ought to be taught in school. I was never taught anything about them in all my years and was oblivious to their differencies and uses. given that the world is increasingly relying on portable electronic devices it is something that would be of great benefit to ourselves and future generations.

[@shoking9825]

the "lets get started" just makes my day

[@dig1035]

Interesting! I've been using NIMH cells no problem for a very long time, remotes and flashlights, low power draw! Toyota Prius used this chemistry without temperature, cycle, calendar aging, but low power density and c-rate!

[@busterscrugs]

Interesting to see the different charge methods for NiMH. I have a generic charger that I noticed heated up the batteries a ton. But my nitecore d2 smart charger doesn't heat them up at all, must have a more intelligent charging ic.

[@astroblemeRC]

I’m the guy that everyone would say “he should not be using Lipo” to, which is why I’m fully nimh only 😂 Thanks for this video 👍🏻

[@ElAMPox]

Yeah, NiMh and NiCad has it's niche use, on cool use is they withstand trickle charging forever so you can have a small backup battery in your circuit with just a small current regulator and some diodes. Said so, im glad to have lipos and lifepo4 and super small ics to handle the charge/discharge. Memory effect was also a pain

[@gamtax]

Yeah, it's kinda funny that you need to deep discharge to regain the capacity. Had a pair of GP Recyko that showed memory effect. Discharged it to 0.4V then fully charged it back. The effect had just gone away after that.

[@housinit]

So funny, I pulled out some old NiMHs last night to charge up. So used to using lipos that it was surprising to see that the NiMH batteries still worked.

[@extrastuff9463]

Having at least one analytical charger around that can be configured to charge at different rates, discharge at configurable rates to a certain voltage, etc can be very useful: You mentioned the different capacity leading to over discharge, when I get new NiMH batteries (haven't done so in years) I run them through a charge, discharge, charge cycle on that charger. Then write the measured discharge capacity and current year + month on them. This way I can grab roughly matched sets of batteries, and if they've gone through a lot of cycles or it's been ages since I tested them I may put them through that again and write the new values on them. Ideally I guess I should instead give them a unique number instead and compile a database of measured capacity + number of cycles they went through. Could lead to some interesting graphs showing loss of capacity over time and cycles... but I'm way too lazy for that. I did notice that Eneloops are holding out better than most other brands of which I had to retire a fair amount of batteries over the years even when preferentially picking them out of the box. Much like you I do primarily use them for commercial products that run on AA batteries, anything I design myself either runs on lead acid (when big and heavy doesn't matter) or more commonly lithium ion (either 18650/21700 or lipo packs). Sadly you'll still ocasionally stumble into devices that won't run well on NiMH batteries, they either don't work well at all or can use only a portion of the stored charge in the batteries. Maybe those newfangled lithium ion contraptions with a buck converter for a stable output will work in those? But that'd probably come at the cost of a low battery warning works with alkalines/NiMH if they just keep outputing 1.5V until they are too low and then do 0V or whatever.

[@jimmybrad156]

I think most of them (the lipo to 1.5v batteries) deliberately drop to 1.2v before 0v (to trigger a warning) now.

[@ShawonSarkar]

1:04 Honestly speaking, this intro was far better than the current one...

[@kyoudaiken]

What's also important to mention is the self-discharge when just laying inside a drawer. Only Eneloops are suitable these days. There are other brands who copied that technology from Sanyo (now Panasonic) but I haven't tested those. Be aware that most Ni-Nh batteries can be charged and can be empty after just 12h just by laying around. Especially ones claiming over 2600mAh.

[@eDoc2020]

If a NiMH battery is empty after 12 hours then it has failed internally. Regular NiMH should last at least a month and of course Eneloops last longer.

[@kyoudaiken]

@@eDoc2020 Or they're just so crammed inside that the separator is basically nonexistent. 3000mAh ones for example.

[@kyoudaiken]

@@eDoc2020 Or they're just so crammed inside that the separator is basically nonexistent. 3000mAh ones for example.

[@eDoc2020]

@@kyoudaiken If the battery's good it will still last a month. The ultra-thin separator just means it won't stay good for long. IIRC insufficient separator is what caused the Note 7 battery issues.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

tbiße 2100 çyçkés bugrr cerson 500 çyckes

[@nucleochemist]

NiMH like eneloops are great for set-and-foget devices, like remotes (TV / sound system) or for toys. Unlike alkaline batteries, NiMH wont leak electrolyte when depleted, which can severely damage the battery compartment. They are also relatively safe to charge and discharge at reasonable rates around the home without a risk of fire, compared to Li-ion or Li-Po batteries.

[@mikebond6328]

I have some leaky NiMH batteries.

[@greatscottlab]

Great point!

[@MotorHorse]

@@mikebond6328 Are you sure those aren't Ni-Cd? Ni-Cd's are more known for leaking than Ni-Mh's are. Not that it's impossible, as any battery with electrolyte can leak, but Ni-Mh generally only leaks if it was damaged physically or by overcharging/overheating.

[@sharonbraselton4302]

yés 210⁰ çyçkes

[@jimmybrad156]

@@mikebond6328 What do you think made them leak? Were they left uncharged at less than 0.7v for a long time?

[@GeertGoossens]

when I bought a good charge/discharger for 18650s which happens to also support AA and AAA batteries I put some old nimh rechargeable batteries in there to test the capacity and saw a lot of them were pretty much dead (due to memory effect their capacity dropped to 20% or less) and I figured out that running them through a couple cycles of discharge / charge recovered capacity to sometimes around 85%...

[@mikebond6328]

I don’t remember the brand but I bought a cordless drill several years ago that had NiMH batteries and according to the manual the battery capacity would get better the more times it was charged and discharged.

[@EldaLuna]

i like using these i kinda stopped using primary cells entirely where possible. do keep some around for emergency purposes but that's about it. i have 2 NiMH cells that refuse to drop and still retain most of their capacity they are almost 18 years old and still not giving up yet.

[@kingadami]

I also remember reading that NiMh do better at lower temperatures vs standard lithium ion batteries, although I would have to do more research to confirm. I am sure there is a lot of research in this area for Lithium ions though.

[@lagmonster7789]

I thought the exact same thing! But looking up the datasheets for a couple Li-ion(Panasonic NCR18650B) & NIMH(Energizer NH15) cells the Li-ion ones actually had much better discharge temp specs at -20~60C vs 0~30C for the NIMH. Charge temps were 10~45C vs 0~45C and storage was -20~50C vs -20~30C for the Li-ion and NIMH respectively. Guess Lithium batteries have come a long way in the last decade 😁

[@Hisokaa-d2j]

The eneloop 4:05 quite literally does come with the discharge rating on the datasheet, you have it literally highlighted at the bottom of the page at 4:10 You can see the voltage drop is already very high by 5 amps and almost unusable, not "26 amps".

[@AnubhabKundu]

Compared to a lithium ion based cell, I have noticed that the NiMH battery pack does not offer a good run time. I have a Phillips Aquatouch Wet and Dry cordless shaver that is powered by NiMH cells inside. They charge up very slow and discharge rather fast because my shaver has a pop up trimmer that is a high current load. The charger of the device would have costed 10 USD approx, and new trimmers available online also cost around the same. I have a hair trimmer now that features easy USB charging. I use the old school foam and razor system for shaving now.

[@suppar8066]

I try to just use nimh in mobile devices around the house cause liion are too expensive and are also worse when it comes to recycling imo. So they are definitly still in good use here and i reccomend it to everyone :)

[@synthwave7]

Nice comparison. I still have many Energizer NiMh and they now start to drop off after 500+ charge cycles. Some gadgets do not like 2 x NiMh as the total voltage is only 2,4V not 3V and they refuse to work then.

[@edstar83]

These are the best. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3qqYmuFmMaVosU

[@sharonbraselton4302]

ñew energizer last 1200 çyckes plús