NEW Wireless Layout Control With The Power Of ESP® (236)

When I saw the information on the new ESP® wireless control system from DCC Concepts I was blown away--it really is a game changer when it comes to model railroad wiring. I knew it was exactly what I needed for controlling the turnouts in my new staging yard to save running hundreds of feet of wires to the various switch machines hidden under the layout. So in this video I'll give you an overview of the components that comprise the ESP® system, then dive into the details for how to set up each component for wireless layout control. Then in next week’s video we’ll install the system in the control panel and on the layout and give it a test drive.
The ESP system is available direct from DCC Concepts website (www.dccconcepts.com), as well as hobby shops in England such as Rails of Sheffield. In the US Iron Planets Hobbies is arranging for a shipments of components and dealers who order from Heartland Hobbies can order components through them for you. Remember this is a brand new product so it may take a while to get into stores so if this is something you just have to have then buying direct from DCC Concepts will be the fastest option.

[@bfredsys11]

Wow, your videos are amazing! you truly inspired me!

[@rjl110919581]

thank you for detailed video

[@thomasgrassi8817]

Larry, I watched the DCC Concepts video on ESP also and I was amazed. I was thinking about this for my layout but really have not been able to justify this as a need. If I did not already have my control boards all setup I would have tried this method. But will keep this in mind for others in the field. Looking forward to seeing it in operation on your layout

[@marioangols3186]

Hi Larry and thanks for your video and explanation not only for the ESP also for the Relay and use of the diode. BR

[@ricter591]

Thanks Larry, 🐾🚂.

[@jonharbour9166]

I like the concept Larry, but if you have a modular exhibition layout you still need to pass the DCC bus for both track and accessories across the modules, which means you do get the benefit of a wireless control panel but there still needs to be an accessory bus between the boards. As aside, I find your videos really informative and your method of explaining the subjects very easy to follow. 29:23

[@MrAsBBB]

Just found your channel in London. You have an exceptional way of teaching us what to do . Long may it continue! Happy New Year!

[@bernardc2553]

Glad you found his channel,Larry's like top notch #1itchybon

[@steveedwards9957]

Thanks Larry, great tutorial. I struggle to accept whether the convenience out weighs the cost. All the same I'll follow your instal with interest.

[@dkaustin98]

Thanks for the video on the ESP system. That makes it a little more clearer. I hope I can get my hands on the receiver and transmitter soon. I do want to play with the two color LED momentary push buttons to see if those will light while operating the transmitters.

[@jpkarenko6952]

Hi, D. Bi-color LED's work fine with many turnout/accessory drivers, (like my DCC Concepts DCD-ADS sx units) but I found it was necessary to use Common Anode LEDs. I would also look for the ones with the diffused rather than clear buttons (I don't know what to call them.) Good luck.

[@josefbuckland]

I have it and while its good i have to say te default instructions need GREAT IMPROVMENT

[@andrewstevenson5449]

Thanks Larry for getting your head round all that! I have to admit I'm struggling to see the usefulness of it, other than (as you showed) putting the transmitter in a wireless walk round control board. I think DCC Concepts already do components for mimic boards that seem to be able to do pretty much the same thing. Being able to have the transmitter switched by track detection (or other inputs) sounds useful, but in that case, it wouldn't need to be wireless. I really like the DCC Concepts guys, but compared to other wireless systems, this seems a bit clunky, with the benefit being that it doesn't need wifi.

[@OhioCentralModeler]

I'm an electrical engineering student. It's a neat system but for someone that's technically inclined, it's cheaper and far more customizable to make my such system, if certainly not as quick and easy. But for me, being able to DIY the electronics is half the fun!

[@TheDCCGuy]

I agree to a point, electronics can be a hobby within the hobby for the technically inclined (as you put it). However many modelers are off the shelf purchasers who just want something they can plug in and run with. The folks at DCC Concepts have been designing and producing products that can deliver on the desire.

[@Mark_W_L]

Only allowing the three transmitter outputs to be in sequence is very constraining. For example, my turnouts use the Union Switch and Signal convention so they all have odd numbers.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I’ll check with them to see if there is a way to set individual switch addresses.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Ok, I git an answer and for now they can only be programmed in the 3 address sequence.

[@pierrelambert446]

This is a nice system but it lack a lot in feature if we compare this with the IoTT system. I have a few Yellow hat and they have 32 inputs in wifi with loconet protocol. And the footprints is way more compact. Also it can drive around 1000 neopixel led. Idéal for a control panel or current detection with an add on detectors.

[@andrewreynolds599]

Just a warning to people - I bought a snap open frame at Amazon (M&T Display Opti 8.5x11 Picture Photo Frame for table and wall), BUT THE BACK is made of plastic and molds into the snap frame. This will not work as far as I can see. I need to go back and find one that the back comes off but looking online they don't seem to tell you.

[@cact25]

Knowing the costs would be helpful. We don’t all have deep pockets and this looks to be expensive compared to wiring. Jim Kirwan

[@TheDCCGuy]

It’s all on the DCC Concepts website.

[@jpkarenko6952]

Did you ever do a video on pairing the 2nd Rx to a mimic board? Adding lights to the portable control panel is my desire. Link to the video, if available? Thanks.

[@TheDCCGuy]

No, I decided not to do that as it would have required additional components and therefore a larger control panel box. I wanted my panel box to be as light and portable as possible. I used toggle switches on the control panel making it easy to see by the position of the toggle which way the switch is thrown.

[@rolandlawrence2654]

Larry, which video can you point me to where you show setting the Cobalt Switch Machine to the 501 Address? Also, can this same programming be done for the Tortoise Switch Machine?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I provided links to that in the video. With a Tortoise you need to either purchase an additional accessory decoder or use the Smail which has one built in.

[@jimcarr9810]

Larry I find your channel very interesting and I have a problem. I have a n scale layout and have used the new Walthers switch machines in DCC. The problem is I also have a Kato crossover what kind of single use decoder can I use and also have a push button on my control panel.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Jim, I have never worked with Kato switches. However I do know that Digitrax makes accessory decoders that work with them. The problem is I don’t know of any single output accy decoders, most have 2-4 unless they are built into a device.

[@peterjhillier7659]

Thanks Larry, that’s very impressive, I presume you could get these in the UK?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, check with DCC Concepts in Settle, Rails of Sheffield, and various other shops that carry DCC Concepts products.

[@peterjhillier7659]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for your Reply, you’re a Gem!

[@wiliamcapranica7139]

How did you connect your Power Cab to the Transmitter's input power receptacle, to program it. Did you have to "cut and skin" the opposite end of the 4 wire curl;y cord to do it'? And if so, what two wires did you use, and would they be phase sensitive?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Great question. I simply took 2 clip leads with their other ends cut and stripped, inserted the stripped ends into the screw terminals on the transmitter, clipped the leads to the track, turned on the power, switched on the programming, and sent an accessory command to the address I wanted to program it to. Very simple and easy. I’ll have to demonstrate this in a video, maybe the next one or a special one just on programming accessory decoders in general.

[@donaldgardner7753]

Larry, thanks for another installment. This has been a very useful series. A question, is there a reason why you're using the Cobalt IP-Digital machines rather than the Cobalt-SS model that's designed for above board mounting?

[@TheDCCGuy]

The SS appears to be a solenoid type snap switch plus it does not appear to have all the internal switches and accessory decoder like the iP Digital. and requires an additional making it a more complicated installation.

[@Haymarket47]

@@TheDCCGuy I think it’s a stepper motor rather than a solnoid

[@TheDCCGuy]

Could be, I saw the 3 wires and that usually is an indicator of solenoid system. At any rate the iP Digitals are what DCC Concepts provided.

[@Llamberg.Railway]

You mention that the system can be used with occupancy detectors, I was told by the manufacturer that it won’t work with the digitrax bdl168

[@TheDCCGuy]

Interesting, I’m sure there are some individual design constraints. I know it will work with their LMID detectors and they should also work with NCE BD20’s which are similar. These are so new it will take a while before they are tested with every conceivable combination.

[@TheDCCGuy]

The BDL168 apparently integrates with Digitrax Loconet through a proprietary connection that is not compatible with the ESP system.

[@Llamberg.Railway]

And that’s the issue in how a occupancy module communicates because although to a certain point it will work with most systems which is the claim, it is a bit misleading because of the occupancy issue. For occupancy you you would have to use the concepts feedback module as I suspect most occupancy modules would be incompatible because of how the occupancy module outputs it’s data. When I enquired with them about this the feedback module needs to be able to output a switched state on top of the sensor message for the specific data bus that’s being used.

[@jpkarenko6952]

Hi Larry. I am searching for extra Green connectors like those used on this system. I cannot find them at All Electronics. I just don't know what to call them. Can you post a part number or at least a name/mfr? Thanks.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I don’t know about the plug in type but if you want just plain old “screw terminals” then that’s what you search for.

[@davidlesliemcdade1635]

Hi Larry, Very interested in this ,But do you have to have an NCE equipment to program the individual address's for 501,502 and 503 just wondering Regards David

[@TheDCCGuy]

No any DCC system capable of giving accessory decoder commands should be able to do the programming.

[@jameswolf195]

I must be missing something but using this system seems overly expensive and complicated. On my layout I use a dtdp on/on toggle switch on the control panel to control one (or more) switch. 3 signals covering the approaches to the switch and 2 led's on my control panel to indicate either main or diverging route depending on how the switch is thrown. I use cheap wire to connect it all vs. all the circuit boards you are using. I simply throw the toggle and the lights on the panel change, the switch throws and all three signals change to show, from all directions, how the switch is aligned. All in all, pretty simple.

[@TheDCCGuy]

If you watch my control panel videos you’ll see that in the past I’ve done that too. However for someone wanting to avoid a lot of extra wiring and the flexibility of using accessory decoders which in the future could be linked with JMRI/PanelPro it offers a lot.

[@dkaustin98]

How do you pick up your control panel to walk around the layout with the train?

[@JamesSmith-mv9fp]

Wireless model railway controllers have been around since the 1980's !!!! But I have not yet found one that is good enough for really smooth jerk free running, and also suited to model railway exhibitions where interference becomes an added issue. There is also the option of controlling layouts by interfacing your mobile phone through "Blue tooth" to certain DCC systems. But again this system currently results in erratic operation, and seems even more prone to interference, especially if you have more than one layout in an exhibition hall using this system ! Indeed I have not yet found any DCC system that is itself jerk free, for the simple reason that DCC uses 16v AC in the rails, but locomotives still have 12v DC motors ! The problem is of course the "chips". Indeed "chips" are too small to incorporate a normal quality Rectifier to change the AC to DC. So manufacturers take a shortcut and the chip effectively cuts AC in half by using 4 diodes in a quadrant. This provides "Half Wave" DC, which is NOT a pure unadulterated supply. And the better the quality of the motor inside any loco, the more rapidly the motor is subjected to overheating, cutting its life expectancy ! Another reason for loco jerky behaviour on DCC is the fact that the chip also has to quantify how much power is passed to the motor, according to the speed you want the loco to proceed at. As DCC is a digital system, it cannot apportion an increase or decrease in voltage smoothly, and can only do this in steps. Most chips today still only use a maximum of 24 steps, hence the still jerky nature of locos most obvious when speed is being increased or decreased. By comparison a traditional 12v DC type quality controller is not confined to "steps" and increases or decreases power in a smooth continuous fashion, hence the loco responds far better !!!!!!

[@TheDCCGuy]

I think you need to watch the video, it is not about locomotive control it is about layout control.. But since you brought it up, I have been using Digitrax wireless throttles since their first ones about 20 years ago and there really is no difference in loco performance between them and wired throttles. I would never go back! And the TCS UWT-100 is equally responsive and easy to use. The ESP wireless system I detail in this video uses unique addresses so a whole room full of them can be used without any interference.

[@marklaidlay6842]

Off topic sorry, but do you know of a system that allows NCE Minipanel functions (including macros/routes) but does not require an NCE system?

[@TheDCCGuy]

No, I looked into that and it apparently interacts with NCE system memory.

[@marklaidlay6842]

@@TheDCCGuy I'm looking for something from another manufacturer that does the same things.

[@andrewreynolds599]

Larry, I plan on making an NCE system and use the wireless layout controls from DCC Concepts. Their manual says, "DCC-ESPR.1 can be powered by a DCC track bus or with any regulated DC power source or battery able to deliver from 12 to 20 volts." Is powering from the track bus the better way to go? (I don't have a DC power source, should I get one and why?)

[@TheDCCGuy]

As I understand it there are 3 options. (1) On the one hand should you want to use throttles to control accessory decoders and point motors, etc then you need to feed commands from the command station to the ESP receiver which means connecting to the main DCC power bus feed. (2) On the other hand if you only plan to use the ESP wireless controls then a DC power source makes more sense and takes some of the burden off the NCE command station and DCC power bus. (3) You also may be able to mix the two by feeding the DCC commands into the receiver and power it using the DC power supply

[@andrewreynolds599]

@@TheDCCGuy I like your option 3. DCC Commands coming and using the other output/input for DC Power coming in. Can you recommend a DC Accessory Power Source that will handle the 12 to 20 volts which is compatible with the NCE Power Pro Starter Set with Radio, PH-PRO-R/5A?

[@andrewreynolds599]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry. I like your explanations.. Continuing on option 1 - feeding commands from the command station to the ESP receiver, would it make sense to have a transmitter splitting off your DCC bus to the Receiver for EACH power district/zone?(meaning a very good reason for additional transmitters per power district?) That's what I am thinking of doing on my system...

[@TheDCCGuy]

@@andrewreynolds599 The transmitters are located in the control panel and send the commands to the receivers. The receiver converts those commands to DCC commands and adds them to the DCC power coming from the command station and sends that out to the iP Digitals. These can be used to create a 1.5 amp accessory bus to power just the iP Digitals which is what I suggest-keep the accessory commands separate from your DCC power bus.

[@mr.shadestrains6033]

🚂😎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@stevetee5076]

Does each turnout require a cobalt switch machine, an ESP receiver and a separate power supply? If so, this seems very expensive.

[@flipvideodemo]

Only one receiver is needed to control multiple digital devices :-)

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

It's the transmitters that work out expensive with only 3 outputs on each.

[@stevetee5076]

@@flipvideodemo Upon rewatching the video, one cobalt switch machine is connected to one ESP receiver and a toggle switch is connected to one of 3 slots in on the transmitter board.Therefore, the toggle switch can wirelessly control the one turnout switch machine.If someone had Tortitise machines, would they work with the receiver or would one need to replace them with Cobalt machine?

[@stevetee5076]

@@flipvideodemo ok, thanks. This makes sense now.

[@woodalexander]

@@stevetee5076 They'd need DCC decoders.

[@bobainsworth5057]

Couldn't you use an LLC power buss?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I suspect you mean LCC? There is limited availability of products. As far as I have been able to discern only RR-Circkits offers them. If you know of more please share.

[@TheBradmarriner]

But you did not tell why do you need to but a diode do.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I’m not sure what you are asking here, some words seem to be missing in your question, please rephrase.

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

DCC Concepts ESP is a good system but far too expensive. Only 3 outputs per transmitter so if you had 12 points \ switch motors, you'd need 4 ESP transmitters and 1 receiver. If you wanted led point \ switch feedback, you need another receiver.

[@TheDCCGuy]

As with all new technology it comes at a cost. Consider the cost of a new iPhone vs a wired landline phone. Even with the cost I think there are a number of uses that would justify the added cost, especially modular club layouts, exhibition layouts, remote occupancy displays, etc.

[@alanmusicman3385]

I agree - the costs are outrageous and the functionality is better implemented using widely available components (ESP8266 Microcontrollers for example) and WiFi or 433MHz. However, I do appreciate that some amount of coding and system integration smarts are needed (or you need to know someone in your club that has them), but it's not very complex stuff and if you're doing a lot of this you can save a ton of money over buying sets of these boards. The Cobalt switch machines however are well worth the money.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes there are almost always other ways. However based on the questions I currently get as wells those I have received over the last 25 years writing for various magazines I think you over estimate the technical sophistication of most modelers. Consequently I have become used to writing for the lowest common denominator.

[@woodalexander]

I agree. This is outrageously expensive for what it is. If you're just doing local switch control, then toggle switches hardwired are fine, if you want dispatcher control then inputs need to go through JMRI and the DCC system so that it can keep track of last known turnout position, do lockouts, etc. For route control there are a zillion ways to do it, JMRI, Arduino, LCC, Digitrax DS74s, NCE Mini Panel, etc. The wireless function is also rather unnecessary for use on a layout.

[@alanmusicman3385]

@@TheDCCGuy Completely agree with you, that is the correct inclusive approach - those who want (or have the knowledge) to do more can take the ideas and go do their own home-brew implementations. As I was only involved with the hobby in a lightweight way (and not for that long) in the 1980s I am not sure how things were then; however my impression now is that there are a lot of people into the hobby now who have tinkered with digital electronics as a hobby or in their careers and are very able to customise or even 100% DIY stuff. I'm not sure they get near to being more than a sizable minority, but it's an interesting change from how it was 30 years ago when very few people could even define the word Digital! :-) Keep on right the way you are, Larry. You're doing great stuff!

[@walshrd]

This is a very expensive bluetooth application for model railroaders who MUST HAVE a turn key solution for everything they want to do. Why must everything be turn key? Your channel always ignores how to DYI with microcontrollers...like Arduino. There must be some aversion to simple programming of simple micro controllers. RF solutions using very inexpensive RF transmitter/receiver pairs or transceivers have been available now for many years. These devices are quite reliable, and pairing requirements and their limitations do not exist. How about stepping up and showing your viewers how they can reap a world of benefit by using Arduinos on their layouts? There are many simple one-hour projects that could set signals, throw switches and set routes, turn on/off lights, instigate sound effects, ... One Arduino controller could operate an entire control panel which itself could be a wired panel or a wireless panel.

[@TheDCCGuy]

It is not Blue Tooth and depending on your application is no more expensive than a new sound equipped locomotive. And new rolling stock sells for about what one ESP transmitter or receiver costs. I have no control as to the purchasing desires of today’s modelers. The ready to run off the shelf direction has been increasing it seems over the last decade. I used to do a lot of articles on painting and super detailing locos but with manufacturers producing runs of them in every possible paint scheme and the correct details in many cases no magazine really wants those anymore. One of these days I might get caught up and actually have time to experiment with arduinos, etc but right now I am happy to leave those kinds of videos to electronics experimenters.