Installing The ESP® Wireless System (237)

In my last video I introduced you to the ESP® wireless control system from DCC Concepts, and in this video I'll show you how I installed it in a wireless portable control panel on the Piedmont Southern layout to control the hidden staging yard I've been building for several weeks. So let's get started!

[@TheDCCGuy]

Hi folks, we have a major snowstorm bearing down on us this weekend and there is a high likelihood I will be without power and an internet connection for a day or more. So, I may not be able to respond to comments or emails, and if it is really bad a video this coming week may be out as well. I am hoping of course that we’ll get lucky and only get 5-6” but then I’m an optimist and we have dodged the bullet in the past. Be safe wherever you are.

[@howardwitt7947]

Hi Larry, sorry a very random question. The green paint on the sides of your layout. Is it table tennis table paint. I like the colour will do something similar.

[@TheDCCGuy]

@@howardwitt7947 No, that is a color I got mixed up at Home Depot. I use it in all my layout fascia and exposed wood surfaces. It is Behr Paint, Congo PPU11-20D. The last time I bought any was about 2014 so don’t know if it is still available.

[@howardwitt7947]

@@TheDCCGuy many thanks.

[@marke.saunders4803]

Great video, thanks for sharing it with all of us.

[@Mark_W_L]

Larry, Congratulations on reaching 25K subscribers

[@HumancityJunction]

Congrats on 25k subscribers!! Can I use the ESP system to trigger non-ESP devices using JMRI as the interpretor? I already have my Cobalt Digital iP turnouts connected to DCC, but I am looking into different options to create control panels.

[@TheDCCGuy]

The ESP system I wrote about in MR and showed in my video on building a wireless control panel basically are just a wireless means for sending DCC signals to control accessory decoders. The transmitters convert the analog inputs from toggle switches in my case, to digital commands that are 5he transmitted to the receiver on the layout. It the embeds those DCC commands into the DCC data stream and sends them out on the DCC power bus or an accessory bus where they are received and acted upon by accessory decoders.

[@geac9100]

It's ashamed your channel isn't higher in subscribers. I have learned so much from your videos. I was petrified to rip apart a new engine and install a decoder. I just dug in and cut wires, followed your guidance and it worked, confidence gained.

[@billoberst7273]

Larry won't the Walthers switch machines do the same thing? I'm able to control my Walthers switch machines with my NCE wireless control. Thanks Bill Oberst

[@TheDCCGuy]

Sure, I could have used those, or Smails, or Tortoises with a Switch8, etc. But the ESP system allowed my to do it all without running tons of wires from a stationary control panel. This gave me a portable control panel that I can move anywhere in my layout or even my house.

[@micheldescoteaux7192]

No Larry thank you! Your videos are very intuitive, and have helped me develop on technical stuff. I'm learning stuff from your videos.👍 Again continue, "edumacation." Thank you 😊

[@LeonKolenda]

OK, Larry, I'm a real newby. A few questions. Did you say that the control box is powerd by a battery? If so, where was the input to charge the battery? Could one use Toggle switches that light up when thrown? All the C-boards and wires and switch machines that are exposed on the layout, is there some way to hide those, like maybe putting them under the lay-out surface? Is this a different system than using DCC to control swithches, if so, Which is better?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, I powered the unit with a battery. I often use a simple 9VDC or a larger 12VDC placed inside the box. You could easily add a recharge port but it is so easy to pop it open and swap batteries I do it that way. You could use lot toggle switches but that requires additional send and receiver boards for proper feedback and I was looking for lighter weight and simpler installation. The the boards, wires and switch machines could have been placed under the deck but with a hidden staging yard it is just easier to install and maintain them that way. The big advantage of this system is I did not have to install the long wire runs from a permanent control panel located somewhere on the layout and I can move it around wherever I want then store it when it is not in use. Big control,panels can take up a lot of room on a fascia and get in the way of operators.

[@troyasiana5762]

I’m on their website, how do I know which switch machines to buy. They have so many . Do I get the cobalt IP Digatal? I will be placing under the layout

[@TheDCCGuy]

I used the iP Digital. I explained their different switch machines in my video #188 on them, “Is the Cobalt Digital a Tortoise Slayer”.

[@HHExpress]

Very interesting Larry, also congrats to getting over 25K subs. Greetings from Hai

[@ricter591]

Thanks Larry. 🐾 Creek 🚂.

[@dkaustin98]

Larry, Thank you posting the video. I know I can do this for my On30 layout. Since I am a single operator I believe I will create one panel to move around the layout as my train moves across the layout. I would just have to figure out a way to support it or hang it in different reachable locations. That should be simple enough. I still want to try using LED momentary push buttons that activate and indicate routes instead of the toggles. Oh, I did find LED R/G toggle switches are available. However, I prefer the push buttons. Again thanks for showing this build. Question, will you eventually recreate your other control panels in a similar fashion?

[@TheDCCGuy]

No, as long as the installed ones work they stay put. It would be about as much trouble pulling out all the wires run from the control panels as it was to put them in.

[@woodalexander]

Why not just use traditional local controls for each turnout and walk around with the train?

[@catfisherboy]

Hi Larry thanks for all of your work, love your channel. I have not been able to find a supplier in the US fot this system. I contacted DCC systems and they gave me a link to US distributers, however I find none in stock

[@TheDCCGuy]

Buz-this is such a new system it is just getting into many shops in the UK but as I said in the previous video it will take a little while to get in shops over here. I know that Iron Planet Hobbies has been in discussion with them to get the components over here but they are in the midst of moving their shop to a new location. In the meantime your best bet is direct orders from DCC Concepts or a UK shop that carries their products.

[@catfisherboy]

@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry, yes I contacted Iron Planet and they did say they would at some point be getting them

[@TheDCCGuy]

They got a shipment in and now have a very large range of DCC Concepts on their website.

[@andrewreynolds599]

Still watching videos - over and over BEFORE I commit to putting my DCC Concepts items together. Something you said made me think. I am using a new NCE 5-amp wireless system and am using PSXX3 circuit breakers in the control box similar to the one you showed us how to build including the fan and DCC Alpha Voltage/Amp meter. Very clever! So, as you see, I have three power districts. Do I need a receiver for each of my power districts?

[@peterjhillier7659]

Thanks Larry, what a really professional Job you’ve made of the Control Panel. Excellent Video.

[@kraigsickels3918]

Congratulations 🎊 on 25 k subscribers Larry ! What a great series of videos I am very impressed your talent 👍!

[@ronduz1281]

Congrats Larry,I’m happy to be one of your 25k! It’s not hard to see why you have so many subscribers. Learned a lot from your videos. Keep them coming

[@rjl110919581]

thank you sharing this video

[@thomasgrassi8817]

Larry congrats on 25000 Subs I am trying to get to just 50 getting close at 47 now. Nice Panel are you planning to add LEDS to the Panel Since you say your yard is not visible then how would you know what direction the turnout is in?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I am not using LEDs as it would require adding more components to the panel making it heavier and more complex to wire but it could be done. I used toggles instead of my usual pushbuttons because the way the toggle is thrown shows you which way the turnout is set.

[@daspell4029]

Excellent video and congrats on 25k

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

Hi Larry, supplemental question: You separated the power bus into a track bus and accessory bus. Could you have just had a single bus to feed the track and accessories if so, why did you decide to have separate buses as you've previously said the IP Digital dont take a lot of power? Thanks. BTW, we dont get anything like the amount of snow you do here in the UK so stay safe!

[@TheDCCGuy]

For one thing I am thinking down the road when I have more accessories on the accy bus. I have over 70 decoder equipped locos and they could easily tax a 1.5 amp accy decoder bus. It also keeps the potential of shorts on the loco bus from impacting the accy bus. It is just a much cleaner approach and avoids any Digitrax compatibility issues.

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

Great video, Larry. Couldnt you have just swapped the wires over in the mimic panel box instead of changing the toggle switch orientation or am I missing something? Im not very clear on how you wired the switch machines to power the track. A quick circuit diagram might have helped? Finally, I take it the ESP panels negate the need for other DCC Concept's parts such as Alpha Switch D for DCC control?

[@TheDCCGuy]

The wires are just on/off so orientation does not matter. It was very easy to rotate the toggles, only took a few minutes total. I should have tested them as I installed them.

[@jimmore1694]

I am using sevo for my turnout operations as well cobalt digitall IP. My operating system is NCE cabpro with powercab as extra controller. My question is I would like to use the DCC concepts wireless system to control my servos How do I go about doing this or do I have to ditch my servos and go Cabalt digtal IP

[@TheDCCGuy]

I suggest you contact DCCconcepts directly via their website. They may have a solution for you.

[@petrbucha5762]

Hi Larry super video😉🍻

[@russrockino-rr0864]

Congrats on 25K, Larry!

[@jhoodfysh]

Gratz on the 25K subscribers Larry. Excellent video content too. While I don't think I would walk around with a control panel, I will still use the system because it will mean not having wiring running all over the place and frankly, I do not have the wiring skill or expertise you do, although I am improving by watching your videos.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I don’t plan to actually walk around with it either, but it was convenient to have it sitting in my lap as I shot the video. And I can envision doing that when I am moving trains around to get ready for an op session or to clean/work on track. For normal operations I plan to install a shelf under the main deck where the panel can be stored and pulled out when moving trains in and out of the staging yard. I can see a video on that coming!

[@jhoodfysh]

@@TheDCCGuy I'll look forward to seeing it.

[@daleroth236]

Hey Larry. Amazon has pre-wired switches - 10 for almost $10. To those who don't like to solder this is a bargain.

[@daleroth236]

I should have stipulated they are toggle switches. Also ordered from Amazon 20 - 5mm LEDs with 1000 ohm resistors installed for for $7.99. Another good bargain. Love this series so far, and I have seen this ESP wireless control demonstrated on You Tube by the company that builds it.

[@georgehorne394]

@@daleroth236 I saw that video also, but I think to be successful on this side of the pond, they to show it working with components we use

[@drsmith1988]

Which version of the Digitrax zephyr did you test it on? Dcs-51 or 52?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have a DCS50, however since making that video the folks at FCC Concepts have tested it with their DCS100 and a DCS240. In addition I did a complete reset of my DCS200, 210, and 240 and that took care of the issues I was having.

[@drsmith1988]

@@TheDCCGuy so you reset it to factory defaults?

[@drsmith1988]

@@TheDCCGuy their sales guy told me that there were serious problems with Digitrax and they are trying to figure it out. Although he did refer to backdating which could be a reset. I suppose.

[@TheDCCGuy]

How long ago was that? They tested it with a new DCS240 and had no issues, so after that I did a complete factory reset on my units and that cleared up the problem. I suspect that there were memory related issues since I had never reset these units since they were built. When I get time I plan to test various combinations of op switch settings to see if there were some that might have caused the problem.

[@drsmith1988]

@@TheDCCGuy conversation in the last couple days. I have ordered a couple point motors (iP Digital), transmitter, receiver and switches like you used. We will see in a few days.

[@68Jaguar420G]

Interesting concept and clearly it all works well, but honestly I can't see the value to it. What functionality does this really provide that a fixed panel does not, and is that functionality (whatever it may be) worth the cost? If you are too far away to reach a fixed panel chances are you are too far away to see the train and control it. And DCC Concepts equipment is not inexpensive! And while I can see and have "bought in" to the components to fully automate a reverse loop on a friend's layout this seems to be a bit of technology for the sake of itself.

[@TheDCCGuy]

In my case it saved me running a lot of wires between the control panel and switch machines and in a hidden place like this it probably saved me a trip to the ER. As it is I still ended up with a couple of bloody gashes on my skull. It also served as a proof of concept for me. I now could see using this system for my remote dispatchers panel, or to install detectors in a hidden helix and connect via ESP to an LED display that shows train progress through the helix. For folks with deep pockets and a large layout you could create a central control panel with LEDs to show train locations all over the layout as in the DCC Concepts video I linked to at the end. I am sure there are many applications I have not considered, yet.

[@68Jaguar420G]

@@TheDCCGuy Larry, I certainly hear what you are saying about working in tight spaces, I've just finished a staging yard and reverse loop that was very congested, especially in terms of vertical clearance. So if you feel the wireless aspects of this were good for your health then I can't argue that one. The idea of using it for a remote dispatcher is not one I had thought of and does seem to have potential value. As long as this system has adequate range it could be quite useful and save a lot of time and cost running long wiring harnesses to a dispatcher's desk. Thanks for the feedback.

[@phillipboyle5258]

@@TheDCCGuy The question I have on this is........does it reduce wiring compared to the Alpha Panel (either the Alpha Central or the Alpha Encoder with push buttons)? I'm not sure it does,? Suspect ESP's highest benefits might be more around block detectors etc. Your thoughts?

[@woodalexander]

This is pretty cool, but it's just astronomically expensive. It seems like a solution in search of a problem given that there are already several ways to crack the nut on control panels and routes without needing JMRI running and once you are willing to have JMRI running the possibilities are endless.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I just ran the numbers and for the control panel I built the cost in dollars as of 1/17/22 would be $170 plus shipping from England, we don’t know the cost once it is imported to the US. I then checked the current Walthers flyer and their new F7a with decoder lists for $209.98 and their SD45 is $319.98. So the ESP system as I built it is less than the cost of a single DCC sound equipped locomotive. And for you folks in the UK just take a look at the latest Hornby 2022 releases and their prices, many without DCC are over £200.

[@woodalexander]

@@TheDCCGuy Compared to direct alternatives it looks to be rather pricey.

[@toadjam12000]

How much does this all cost?

[@TheDCCGuy]

It all depends on how much you need. At a minimum you need one receiver for your layout and one transmitter for every three switches or accessories you want to control. DCC Concepts sells individual components and combinations so you really need to check out their website for specifics a d we won’t know what the US retailers will charge until they begin to import them. If you buy from a hobby shop,in the UK expect to pay about $20 shipping by Royal Mail and it usually takes about 2 weeks to get here. But Iron Planet Hobbies is arranging to add the ESP product line to their existing DCC Concepts products.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I just ran the numbers and for the control panel I built the cost in dollars as of 1/17/22 would be $170 plus shipping from England, we don’t know the cost once it is imported to the US. I then checked the current Walthers flyer and their new F7a with decoder lists for $209.98 and their SD45 is $319.98. So the ESP system as I built it is less than the cost of a single DCC sound equipped locomotive. And for you folks i the UK just rake a loom at the latest Hornby 2022 releases a d their prices, many without DCC are over £200.

[@timothyswatridge6433]

Hello Larry Congratulations on reaching 25,000 subscribers. Using ESP is it possible to create a conventional control panel with push button micro switches and red and green LEDs to indicate the position of the turnout / point?

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, as I discussed in the previous video #236 you can use pushbuttons as well as toggles. To implement LEDs in the trackplan requires an additional receiver and a circuit board to control the LEDs. They show this in the DCC Concepts video I provided a link to. I chose not to use the LEDs to keep the panel more compact and less complicated. In my panel the positions of the toggles show which tracks are selected and powered.

[@timothyswatridge6433]

@@TheDCCGuy Thank you Larry most appreciated.

[@woodalexander]

This whole system doesn't make sense in terms of the data flow and feedback in a DCC system. If DCC turnout control for use with a dispatcher is used, you'd need to either route controls through JMRI, LocoNet, an NCE Power Pro, or some other method of tracking turnout position and keeping the dispatcher panel in sync with the actual turnouts on the layout. If it's just being used for local turnout controls, why not just wire them using DC power and DPDT switches for a lot lower cost? This seems like DCC turnout controls for the sake of DCC turnout controls, and not really solving any actual problem or use case. I also don't see the purpose of cutting track power with the turnout machines, considering that the extra wiring is non-trivial compared to just adding a booster if you're that short on power. I program my locomotives not to come on with track power so that I don't have a whole fleet of locomotives idling away annoying the heck out of me.

[@johnwhiteside8760]

It will do this dependant on how you connect it up, as the receiver would be on the bus it would mimic the commands from either the command station or JMRI.

[@woodalexander]

@@johnwhiteside8760 That's not the issue. It doesn't feed back local inputs to JMRI.