The SNP have learned a painful lesson | Andrew Marr | The New Statesman

Humza Yousaf's resignation and the SNP's troubles reveal that many Scottish voters are still social conservatives.
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Some 25 years on from the founding of the Scottish Parliament, the question is being raised as to whether the devolutionary project has failed. If there is failure, however, it is not one of democracy but of the politics of the SNP.
Read Andrew Marr's article here: www.newstatesman.com/politics...
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Andrew Marr is Political Editor for the New Statesman, and is one of the UK's most senior political journalists. He spent over 20 years at the BBC where he was Political Editor and hosted the wildly successful Andrew Marr show. He is now based in Westminster where he brings his deep experience of political reporting to his analysis of the most important events in UK politics. He also hosts Tonight with Andrew Marr on LBC Radio.
Watch more videos from Andrew Marr in this playlist: • Andrew Marr
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[@picknflixnetflixamazonprim7535]

I honestly dont think the SNP have learned anything.

[@paddymeboy]

'Reveal'? They wouldn't need it revealing if they were making any attempt to ask what voters actually want from them instead of just going their own merry way. And the Westminster parties are as bad.

[@grahameheatlie2640]

I agree. They want to divorce England, Wales and NI and marry into the EU on raw emotion without ever thinking about it rationally.

[@shelleyscloud3651]

On the one hand the SNP tell Scot’s we can govern ourselves free from Westminster and on the other that we can’t be trusted enough not to have our opinions policed….

[@eckie4679]

Wrong. Why don’t you actually read what the new laws say. It doesn’t impact anyone’s valid opinions

[@carelgoodheir692]

@DS-xf8yr Let's see if anyone ever gets prosecuted under it. Each time someone does it'll be national news and a boost to any cause that makes that defendant its cause. So far I see no signs that anyone is moderating any view they express because of it. If I see signs of that then I'll agree with you that "it controls opinion and therefore free speech".

[@dulls8475]

@@eckie4679 Countries that want tyrannies need some support from the public.

[@jenniferlawrence2701]

@@eckie4679 Don't trust the government to decide what is or isn't a valid opinion.

[@maxthecat4632]

​@@eckie4679 who decides which opinions are valid or not and on what basis to they make those decisions.

[@jaypurcell3733]

Scottish snd previous SNP voter, completely lost faith recently especially after the ‘hate crime bill’ which I consider oppressive and a very slippery slope, open to vote for anyone who opposes it though sadly i see no trustworthy opposition

[@skymanifest8339]

The Hate Bill is not a "slippery slope", but the complete bottom of the slope. All cheered on, of course, by the likes of Commissar Marr.

[@kevino4372]

He's an idiot for doing the hate law idea

[@neilhamilton3004]

The SNP never learn . They repeat mistake after mistake and blame everyone else for their mistakes.

[@ewansutherland]

Tom Nairn was paraphrasing Denis Diderot (1713-1784): “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

[@carolinenorman6141]

Lol 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

[@robertgannon-cx2mm]

Well said Denis! And Tom.

[@belindamay8063]

@@robertgannon-cx2mm Diderot was addressing a sophisticated, highly sophisticated audience. His crudity was deliberate. In today’s world, it’s nothing special. It just dissolves into the rushing tide of excrement that constitutes populist journalism. The same thing is happening in comedy. Andrew Marr understands all that. He’s been an outstanding commentator from his earlier days in television - and I’m glad he’s still around.

[@robertgannon-cx2mm]

@@belindamay8063 Perhaps, but does he truly understand Scotland and it's politics? I personally know of a number of Scottish people, intelligent people, who have been away for many years, who do not have that understanding, particularly in regard to the SNP. Their mindset is stuck in the time they lived here, and their view is that of the SNP as it was then. They (the SNP), have moved on, the exiles in many ways, have not. They have, in many cases, no understanding as to why so many people of a similar political persuasion like themselves, left leaning are in favour of independence. Their time time away has fogged up their view of Scotland and it's politics, (which is quite different, in many ways to Westminster), and clogged up their minds. What these people need to do, in my view, is direct their gaze away from Westminster, and towards Holyrood, then perhaps they will understand Scotland better, and thereby making more insightful and informed comment about Scottish politics, and the climate therein. I do include Andrew Marr in this,

[@zoon1543]

​@@robertgannon-cx2mm 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 The SNP are rotton to the core !!! Health Education , transport and all the scandals surrounding them , but you're claiming people don't understand ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 The SNP has no intention of delivering independence .Even if it wanted to they don't have the political nouse !!!

[@alansimpson2767]

Andrew Mar is a fantastic and informed reporter .Thank you for this informative podcast

[@simondebeer9917]

But I think it's true that he leans a little to the left

[@flatpancake2261]

i think what was most alarming was SNP bringing in these sweeping policies without any gathering of public opinion or polling to see what people actually thought about them and letting people make up their mind about them

[@robertgannon-cx2mm]

Oh yeah let's rely on the public to decide things. That went well the last time we tried it!!!!!

[@JonoPS]

Well, brexit didn't work out, did it?

[@willx9352]

@@JonoPSDemocracy is dangerous! It is much better to leave important decisions to those experts in Brussels.

[@joshkennedu7771]

Every bit of legislation has a public consultation..

[@dtexdarkus]

@@willx9352 Better than the kleptocrats in London

[@DrawTheThinLine]

I've always had an ear for what you say Andrew. Sensible words indeed

[@kevinl1492]

My family emigrated from the UK 50+ years ago but I try to stay somewhat current. Andrew Marr is a great source of thoughtful insight into the crazy world of UK politics.

[@skymanifest8339]

His insights are nothing more than empty, north-London liberal, observations.

[@marySjaastad]

I find that Andrew Marr tells us about and explains important political topics using a rich english language and quiet humour.

[@paulcru626]

The SNP is finished.

[@christinemcneil4499]

Andrew, I really appreciate your professionalism and journalistic craft. I look forward to your insights, no nonsense delivery, and, because of your experience and ease, the sense that you are talking to friends. I value the time I spend with you during your broadcasts 😊

[@keithparker1346]

Marr usxan establishment tool

[@christinemcneil4499]

Here’s the thing. You don’t have to agree with what people say. It is possible to question and put forward a different argument to the one that is being presented. My point is, that whether you agree or disagree with the content, you cannot challenge the intellect, endeavour, integrity, or journalistic competence that Andrew Marr conveys in his broadcasts. I am a Scot who lives in a country whose broadcast community struggles to use basic grammar correctly in news content. I would urge you to appreciate a master craftsman when you get the opportunity, and be thankful that the audience holds enough value for this type of quality output.

[@Glasgow_kiss]

@@christinemcneil4499Scotland does not have a broadcast community. All media is London controlled. Media is not devolved.

[@MalkWilliams]

As an outside observer, it seems to me that many of these things could be true, but if there is a misalignment with the views of the Scottish public, that would come out at the polls. However it looks to me as though Yousef ended up having to resign because of the offhand way he discarded his coalition partners.

[@robertgannon-cx2mm]

It was a catastrophic manoeuvre by a man with little or no political nous. This was an inexplicable move, and error. The only conclusion one can come to, is he caved in to the right wing reactionary element of his party, though why he did so, is truly baffling? They are an unpleasant and some would say, an irrational lot!

[@moiragoldsmith7052]

​@@robertgannon-cx2mm " Nous", a wonderful word not often used latterly ......and not often practiced, evidently!

[@here_we_go_again2571]

@@robertgannon-cx2mm Nobody in the SNP are "right-wing reactionaries" Not in this day and age! Most in the SNP are liberals with some holding far-left sentiments such as restraining freedom of speech and giving specific groups special privileges over other groups because those in power deem that some groups are composed of "disadvantaged" people -- i.e. D.E.I. at its most damaging for society as a whole.

[@belindamay8063]

@MalkWilliams. He had to go because he offended the Scottish tradition of free speech . And worse, he couldn’t wait. Which shows his absolutist attitude to. power - however it is achieved.

[@here_we_go_again2571]

@@belindamay8063 Humza Yousaf, a petty tyrant Good riddance! Now to repeal his hate speech law is the next immediate goal.

[@douglascheung5815]

I appreciate your journalistic expertise, political memories, practicality, insights and commentary made without fear nor favour - such professionalism is becoming rare, Andrew.

[@flankspeed]

The SNP may have been handed a lesson: it very much remains to see whether they'll learn anything from it.

[@dm2201]

I think you’re a top lad Andrew

[@grizw0ld]

Thanks Andy. Possibly the best analysis in recent times of the SNP's situation. But then, that's no surprise to those of us who have known and followed you since the Inde days.

[@welshaccenttutorials3104]

Miss you on bbc. We don't get that level of insight from that Laura K shill

[@christinesellers188]

you shouldnt be watching the bbc ..is there something wrong with you...

[@Ed30675]

Agreed....

[@FreeCaledonia]

They are equally unpleasant.

[@jimstokes7111]

Andrew your analysis of the situation is bang on 100%.

[@theman2017inc]

I know this is a left leaning publication/ platform However you could ask the same question regarding The Tory Party, who will definitely lose the general election from this weekend’s results from the elections. Labour’s return to power is imminent though not has grandiose and compelling as in 1997 with Tony Blair however the country is sick and tired with the Tories and want change. This change will also impact Scotland

[@buzzukfiftythree]

Tony Blair had more charisma and was much younger than Sir Keir Starmer. I don’t say that as a criticism; I do actually think he’ll make a competent if not exciting PM. I’d just like to see a bit more fire in his belly. His rather annoying voice doesn’t help either (the same goes for Rachel Reeves, who needs some voice training to make her voice less harsh). All very superficial factors, but unfortunately most voters are pretty superficial as well.

[@christopherkerr1693]

Devolution is supposed to be about bringing power closer to people, but what we currently have is a lessor form of centralisation.

[@navnig]

No, you try living outside of the central belt...I live in Shetland and the decline in services here is staggering....And we're one of the richest regions in Scotland.

[@kevinmalley619]

I'm a Labour man at heart but i vote SNP with the aim of a Scottish Labour run Independent Scotland. So thats the SNPs problem they are a tool for the independence fight not a party in my mind. Think thats how alot of Scots feel especially disillusioned Labour voters.

[@colincampbell4261]

Loads of 'loyalist protestants' voted against independance and loads of 'republican catholics' voted for independance.

[@ashterfadgadget817]

And you point is?

[@carelgoodheir692]

@@ashterfadgadget817 His pointn is to reply to Marr's slight misunderstanding of the roles of the main Christian denominations in contemporary Scotland.

[@colincampbell4261]

@@carelgoodheir692 thank you.

[@graememckay9972]

Loyalist protestants = Rangers supporting, orange Lodge attending,frequently fly UVF flags at games, rarely if ever go to church, love the royal family (my supposedly educated manager ticked all the above boxes and claimed the SNP were working for the Pope) Republican catholics = Celtic supporters, frequently fly Eire flags, IRA flags and claim to go to chapel more than the protestant equivalents. Don't like the union because the head of state isnt Catholic. The hate between the two groups opened the doors to the hate speach laws just introduced.

[@ashterfadgadget817]

@@graememckay9972 So, according to you, all protestants who favour the union support Rangers. On the other hand. all catholics support independence and support Celtic. What a ridiculous thing to say!

[@grahameheatlie2640]

Brilliant honest unbiased narration of the current political landscape in Scotland.

[@Jourifouler]

SNP needs to focus more on governing than pipe dreams. The schools and public servives are in a diabolic state. They dont deserve to lead based on dreams alone

[@cv990a4]

Correct. They need to create a compelling vision of what Scotland can be and show they can lead the country towards it.

[@bob23301]

I would rather have my children going to school in Scotland than in the wasteland that is English schools, and do not start me on 8 plus million waiting on NHS England, or the fact that 17% of Scotlands rivers have pollution, where as over 80% across England.....so yes Scotland might have its problems, but it is not the distaster zone that in England today.

[@cv990a4]

@@bob23301 "Hey, at least it's better than England" is not a very inspiring rallying cry. That's the point - if the SNP creates a highly successful alternative in Scotland, shows that it is highly competent at the nuts and bolts of running a country, that would be the best possible advertisement as to why Scots have little to fear from independence.

[@grahamhireme9283]

Jourifouler I’m n the past ten years I’ve been involved in the building and upgrading of over twenty schools and nurseries as well as hospitals and a new women’s prison.

[@alexboitz8540]

is that why they keep getting elected?

[@stevenread1676]

I don't always agree with everything Andrew Marr says, but I think he's nailed it this time. The SNP have shot themselves in the foot by their choice of leader and their choice of policies.

[@2945antonio]

I ALWAYS look forward to your commentary, Andrew. Your long and attentive observation of the political scene in the UK, allied to an insightful, analytical mind, presented in your very uniquely engaging style, is both a pleasure and an education to the listener. Thank you.

[@crouisk]

andrew - spot on am a snp voter of over 30 yrs

[@andrewjohnston9115]

I live in North Cumberland, the number of reasonably well off Scots who live here is quite remarkable ... chase those people away at your peril.

[@HelenFulton]

excellent

[@bernieburrows3731]

I've lived in Scotland for the best part of 50 years and not once bumped into a church of Scotland minister.

[@carelgoodheir692]

They tend not to wear dog collars these days so how would you recognise one in the street? Your right though that Marr is a bit behind the times in his picture of Scotland. His picture of the SNP's current dilemna seemed rather closer to reality to me.

[@DavidBoyes]

How would you know?

[@Puffball-ll1ly]

Haven't seen one in decades

[@alexwallace5486]

You are looking in the wrong place, my minister is always out and about in our parish and does brilliant work.

[@barryholland8935]

Im not a lefty, but i respect your opinions and veiws very much. i always listen to you. But i think the SNP will never learn .

[@2tothe253]

Thank you Andrew for your insight. The problem with the alliance with Greens for the SNP is not that they are more "progressive" than their electorates but that they abdicated leadership (compare with, e.g. Tory+LibDem coalition government 2010-2015). Sadly it is way too often for a political party to believe its own lies not just in the UK but also globally.

[@73BigMC]

I very much doubt they've learned anything.

[@user-xj5ks9yj8n]

The SNP needs to concentrate more on unshackling us from the concrete boots of the Westminster Imperial Master that is dragging us under and asset stripping us to the bare bones.

[@carelgoodheir692]

Agreed if that means running the devolved government so well that it wins people over to the indy side. But if you mean a lot of clamouring for another referendum ASAP instead of competence then no - that's been tried and it fails.

[@paulreilly3904]

What assets? Scotland doesn't make anything. And any money they would have would be used to pay for the pensions and health care of one of the unhealthiest and oldest populations in Europe. And all the young people leave for jobs elsewhere as soon as possible. Thus avoiding paying taxes.

[@navnig]

They refuse to learn.

[@user-gn7cm6db2d]

Doe's Scotland really have enough powers to govern itself,if you have second rate legislation powers it can follow you have second rate politicians although can't find a reason for Westminster being almost the same.

[@jamiecorrigan3241]

THE SNP NEVER LEARN ANY LESSON'S. MIND YOU, THAT 'BLUE FACE PAINT' A LOT OF THEM WEAR HAS LEAD IN IT. EXPLAINS A LOT.

[@chazmork8265]

Neither does Westminster so what's your point exactly Einstein 🤔

[@jamiecorrigan3241]

@@chazmork8265 That ''BLUE FACE PAINT'' You Wear Has A Lot Of Lead In It, Explains A Lot, Whinestein.

[@jamiecorrigan3241]

@@chazmork8265 That ''BLUE FACE PAINT" You Wear Has A Lot Of Lead In It, Explains A lot, Whinestein.

[@jamiecorrigan3241]

@@chazmork8265 READ THE FULL COMMENT WHINESTEIN.

[@carelgoodheir692]

The lead in the water that Glaswegians used to drink as they were growing up made them argumentative and shouty - you do realise that all caps is shouting?

[@marilynmarshall7471]

As always Andrew Marr makes a well balanced and informed assessment of the political mishmash of the Scottish National Party, who are at best enthusiastic and at worst fanatical in their pursuit of an independent Scotland, which is in itself, a misnomer, as they want to be governed by a foreign power in Europe. I am Scottish and British ad have no desire to be separate from the rest of the UK for a "pie in the sky" utopia, promised bh the nats.

[@doctorlolchicken7478]

Politicians in the UK, Scottish or otherwise, have no plan. They are focusing on social issues because it’s easier than tackling the economy. But the economy is all anyone cares about right now.

[@sarawoods1450]

The Emperor had no clothes ! The charade was over

[@robc7162]

I've been having this debate with my nephew for more than 10 years on the importance to separate the independence movement from any political party. He's a big SNP supporter and supporter of independence, but I've kept warning him that even if Scotland got independence, there's no guarantee that the SNP would remain in power and what's to stop the rise of a populist right wing party. As Andrew states, the SNP has hoovered up a lot of diverse political thinking in the bid for independence and that could shatter the dreams of someone like my nephew who's vision for an independent Scotland is one where largely socialist (anti Tory) policies would prevail regardless of the Government in Westminster. Its no surprise that 14 years of Tory government has strengthened the SNP's position in Scotland but that could all change with a Labour government back in power and more sympathetic to greater Scottish devolution.

[@Glasgow_kiss]

2 points 1: post Indy, the SNP will have done their job and split. They are a means to an end, not the end itself. Scotland is a socially progressive nation, there is little chance of a rise of the right. 2: labour when talking about more devolution, is only talking about English regions. It never mentions more devolution for Scotland. Even though they held hands with tories in 2014 to bribe a referendum result. That “vow” has never been delivered. They have nothing left to bribe us with.

[@peterjerman7549]

Fear-mongering about independent Scotland and the weird claim that a right-wing populist party would rise, while you have been living under more than a decade of increasingly radicalising tory rule is wild lmao

[@carelgoodheir692]

You ask "what's to stop the rise of a populist right wing party" after indy. The answer is, PR, which we have a functioning variant of in Scotland. Take the recent Dutch experience, with a loud ranter. Yes, his party got more votes than any other but a majority voted for parties that weren't going to go along with his crap. The electoral system ensured that that was reflected in the results and Geert didn't get his way.

[@miriglith4293]

​@@carelgoodheir692 Hitler was elected by proportional representation.

[@Afterthoughtbtw]

@@carelgoodheir692 PR is far more likely to cause a populist (right or left) uprising than stop it. There's a reason why the far right has never got a hold in the UK, whilst it has all across the European continent. They never even gain a single seat. It's because parliamentary systems like ours (whether elected by fptp or transferable vote) are very effective at preventing extremists getting power.

[@johncopeland3826]

The painful lesson I've learned about the SNP recently is that the english tabloid media circus have had a field day at the expense of Scotland ? When else do they give a toss about Wales , Northern Ireland , or Scotland , unless there is a bit of strife to gorge upon ? Hardly ever ! As far as that posse is concerned , the world does not exist north of Watford ! Unfortunately thats what happens when you travel to and from work on horseback ....whoa boy ?

[@andrewjones-productions]

As a Welshman, or more to the point as a non-Scot, I would suggest to the SNP that they watch and listen to this absolutely valuable and free piece of advice. I thought that Andrew Marr was very respectful and his analysis excellent. I agree totally with him that the SNP have delved into areas where they would have best to have avoided. They need to go back to the basics of their game plan and that is to ensure Scottish independence and the support for it by governing the country well and that means getting the economy onto a sure footing, reinstating Scotland's former excellent education reputation, fixing the healthcare service and not playing around with national institutions such as the courts and the law which is part of what makes Scotland different and the case for independence itself. Westminster (i.e., Tory and Labour party) has already delivered them a gift in refusing to entertain a second referendum. Why a gift, well if you take something away, people suddenly want it. All the SNP have to do is govern well and increase the number of people that realise that Scotland can go it alone and more will follow when London once again says 'NO!' and those on the fence will suddenly be in favour (of independence). The sheer volume of support is the only way to ensure a second referendum and consequently a legal path to realising their own destiny.

[@Collida72]

This is a crisis not for devolution nor even for the idea of independence. It is merely an SNP crisis. A party has been in power coming up to 2 decades and has run out of ideas, real performance has not matched the idealized promises and factionalism is rife. To anyone of my age (50's) this will all sound very familiar, even predictable. Independence will come, but not soon and the SNP will not necessarily be the midwives of it.

[@peterdollins3610]

Westminster has failed & the UK Democracy needs root & branch reform with the Education systems the class system with housing, law & every other bloody thing. For that the Left in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Eire & the EU needs to work together. We can do better, so much better than this.

[@salmonesque]

"Not taking account of the views and needs Scottish fishing communities" ??? Bloody hell Andrew that is lazy journalism. The whole point of marine conservation areas is to ensure that there are fish to catch in future. To sustain and improve Scotland's natural, wild stocks. To repair and maintain our sea beds. Infuriatingly annoying and you can do a bit better, no? The fishing industry in Scotland and in most other countries is so short-sighted. When has any fishing community taken into account the views and needs of our ecology and environment? What are the repercussions to over-fishing on other species of sea life??

[@carelgoodheir692]

Agreed. Will Forbes back shortsighted approaches to fishing policy in order not to offend some of her constituents? It'll be an interesting thing to watch for if she does become more dominant in the SNP.

[@planetmikusha5898]

If the Left were concerned about the environment, they would shut down mass immigration.

[@alexandersunter4899]

Anything from Andrew Marr I’m watching.

[@andidevrede822]

So very well put. Andrew Marr knows what he's talking about here.

[@samsonlovesyou]

Surprisingly sober take from Marr.

[@heathercameron5139]

Very interesting information.

[@carolinenorman6141]

Woke is an escape from reason

[@belindamay8063]

@carolinenroman. It’s also a form of bullying. Which is about as far from liberation as you can get.

[@joanrodger352]

Unfortunately they have learnt nothing.After every mistake their favourite quote is lessons will be learnt but they continue to do the same thing and make the same mistakes.

[@ezmepetersen2503]

I'm sorry he resigned after causing so much hurt. My concern was always about what happens after independence. We've had a glimpse of the new world we didn't know we were stepping into. A Parents right to know and decide what is best for their child has been outlawed. Speech is censured. Independence reignited. Moving to a fully secular society too. We don't govern based on what comes out of think tanks or populist ideas put out there from goodness knows which quarter. It's tragic that the SNP has lost sight of the People hope for a better life instead they chose to silence the voices of those who said too much too soon. Let the lesson be learned.

[@grahamegordon2100]

Excellent

[@nickthornton8660]

Good stuff Andrew

[@pappaxray2]

I love these, great insights and I feel like I've learned a little bit more.

[@seanswindells4700]

What a breath of fresh air. Succinct and measured political comment. Two thoughts. I think the Church of Scotland like the SNP has to rediscover discover its purpose and identity in what is a largely secular society. Gone are the days of authoritarian institutions shaping the public consciousness. Also there is a need for competence. This has been the SNP’s biggest downfall.

[@ijamessmith3385]

Lesson. they will never learn. Andrew they do not speak for the majority. The amount of English journalists that say that annoys the majority.

[@carelgoodheir692]

The SNP don't speak for a majority, sure. But they have for two decades spoken for a much larger minority than any other party.

[@tonychinnery]

The SNP were bolstered by the uniquely horrible nature of the Tory party, including the failed austerity (resonsible for an estimated 150,000 extra deaths) and Brexit. Although Labour has swung sharply to the right under Starmer in an effort to pick up Tory voters, it will probably not be quite so horrible.

[@davidcross7272]

Always worth listening too . Sunday's are not the same, please come back.

[@petercolledge2236]

Very interesting Andrew. I wish you could have made such a nuanced analysis on the BBC.

[@aidanpyle]

Thank you for your comments. Always incisive and insightful.

[@michaelmcclafferty3346]

The best analysis yet I have heard or seen on the political situation in Scotland. Thank you Andrew. I want to see an independent Scotland but I don’t want the centralising and cack- handed SNP running it. We can look like our more Nordic neighbours but need people with more vigour and imagination running Scotland.

[@leslieswain5939]

I always learn something new from Andrew Marr.

[@maryfitzpatrick9639]

Very interesting as ever Andy. I live in Scotland and the phrase 'may you live in interesting times' comes to mind; is it a curse or a blessing? Someone has already said that many Catholics voted for independence whilst, I would guess, the majority of loyalist Protestants are unionists. Tbh I was undecided in 2014 until I saw a banner on the local Orange Lodge hall which urged voters to vote no....that made up my mind. I voted yes!

[@colrhodes377]

It's another stitch up, just like the last time. Will they ever learn?

[@mattlee3044]

Always interesting to hear your opinion, Andrew. I’m not good at understanding politics, but am helped by regular listening to the NS broadcasts. Hopefully, one day, I’ll be able to describe the meaning of Left and Right to a friend. That’s how weak I am. Matt

[@michaels8638]

the SNP has in a way brought apathy to Scottish politics in a similar way as conservatives in the rest of the UK, failure to deliver meaningful change that the electorate and economy needs, blaming Brexit is all well and good but you still need a plan and at present we’re still seeing zero interest in making the status quo’ work, we’re in the morning phase of loss.

[@Llooktook]

Andrew, your video last week on Goya was Pulitzer Prize winning standard!!!!

[@seraaron]

England needs its own devolved parilament/senate too tbh.

[@Guttlegob]

"i hope its not a stitch up". 😂😂 Unfortunately it was

[@Holismleith]

If only our journalists would….??? Learn something.

[@AB-zl4nh]

I was born in London & lived in Scotland for a while. The SNP felt like an organised religion. Whenever I criticised the SNP education & healthcare record, the negative reaction was like I insulted a religious figure. Edinburgh is beautiful, but I found the political atmosphere a little passive aggressive.

[@stephend2035]

I agree with you 100%. You have verbalised what I have been saying for years. It was inevitable that the SNP would implode after the no vote.

[@alexboitz8540]

implode? What planet are you on? The media working themselves up into a furore is not the SNP imploding.

[@rnanerd6505]

The no vote was ten years ago, the SNP has been in power for 17 years and its normal that they should be in trouble. Convenient deflection from the 10 x higher chaos at Westminster though

[@alexboitz8540]

@@rnanerd6505 I'm not terribly convincedthe SNP are in trouble. When did it happen? They won 62 out of 73 Constituencies just 3 years ago.

[@paddymeboy]

'Reveal'? They wouldn't need it revealing if they were making any attempt to ask what voters actually want from them instead of just going their own merry way. And the Westminster parties are as bad. 'Still'? Yes, still. Still, in spite of all the incredibly enlightened examples we have before us, in politics and the media.

[@g-r-a-e-m-e-]

Remember young people who want independence by a large margin. Anecdotes reflecting the SNP of many decades ago seem irrelevant.

[@mungoblakey1494]

says who? As a young Scot I think most of us are fed up of our politicians pretending that independence will solve our problems. They need to focus on our economy, health and education. Pretending that the route of our problems is Westminster actively sabotaging us is not cutting it anymore.

[@g-r-a-e-m-e-]

@@mungoblakey1494 all the surveys have young people massively in favour of independence. Of course there is a minority.

[@mungoblakey1494]

@@g-r-a-e-m-e- from the latest YouGov poll in 2022 "Those aged 16-24 (the majority of whom were not of voting age in 2014) split 59% to 41% in favour of independence". This is not a "massive" majority and IMO will swing back to net-net neutral once people start entering the job market and realise the economic implications of independence.

[@carelgoodheir692]

@@mungoblakey1494 The degree of "swing back" will depend on how well the UK seems to be doing. Post-Brexit the UK has floundered, and if Labour doesn't lift us out of that then these young pro-indy people are quite likely to stay pro-indy. They might decide that the economic costs of the separation will be temporary and worth enduring.

[@g-r-a-e-m-e-]

@@mungoblakey1494 this a big difference! I would say massive. This might vary a bit but really this isn't changing much over time.

[@Dabmonger]

Once Scottish independence is achieved, the SNP will cease to be a force, and will likely even cease to exist.

[@FranzBieberkopf]

"Once independence is achieved"-I hope you have Job-like patience

[@flabbybum9562]

Another excellent analysis. The SNP are in a bit of a catch 22. To have the moral force to argue for a 2nd referendum, they need big votes. But to get big votes, they need to attract pragmatic voters who may be agnostic on independence. But that then muddies the water, and allows opponents to question whether their vote does constitute the required mandate.

[@arthurdixon5890]

A lesson that the tax payer has paid for.

[@Chimp_No_1]

Incredibly interesting video ! Thank you for sharing !

[@DeepakDograx323045]

England living with Chronic Pain Leaders against Each others no one thinking how our Economy gone down after Seat of Prime Minister

[@jtrevm]

Andrew; helpful, perspective, narrative, history, pithy - all in one - and then - future? Good.

[@kennyn1992]

The problem we have now is an uncontested leadership nomination after Swinney has privately talked down his opponents. So there is no debate and no knowing if any lessons have been learned. Or indeed if he thinks there is any need to learn. And for people like myself who only really follow the big stories in politics I will have an FM that I know nothing about. Previous statements often go out the window when politicians realise they have a shot at the leadership which is why debate is important. We can't hold Swinney accountable to anything as he doesn't need to commit to anything. (Not that that matters, right enough, as SNP will no doubt win anyway).

[@carelgoodheir692]

I think that the SNP did make up it's mind what it wanted to be - it wanted to be as dominant as the Labour Party had been so it took on much of Labour's ethos. The strategy worked, it did become dominant. But it now has to grapple with the things that tend to divide Labour, and it has slipped too far in the "progressive" (US terminology) direction. Let's see what the new SNP leadership and a robust internal debate do.

[@PauloSantos-nb7kz]

Excellent as always

[@andrewdavidson4595]

Great thoughtful insight. And the SNP completely miscalculated that they had the people with them, after plenty of ridiculous 'Alice-in-Wonderland' policies and almost two decades of not getting the basics right, and a disastrous vision for the future, I really hope the electorate sends a message when the time comes.

[@abdiqanifarah9375]

Great program.

[@johnsbox]

The SNP will become as unpopular as the Conservatives. They have clearly lost direction. The benefactors will surely be Labour at the next general election. ALBA not mentioned, so I wonder how that party will effect the SNP.

[@craigcharney4058]

Enjoyed this discussion

[@user-sc2zz3vf6l]

Really interesting analysis

[@SuezWSuezW]

Very interesting. Parties have to be careful who they share a bed with. This is happening in Canada, where the Liberal Party is being propped up by the socialist New Democratic Party and the performative contortions in that relationship are too far for many Canadians.

[@roz8723]

Fabulous broadcast.

[@StephenMerchant-up8sg]

The World Economic Forum will have learned that they're not wanted. Anywhere

[@Puffball-ll1ly]

All our politicians are signed up for WEF none of them in opposition to it

[@mvd241997]

Andrew Marr could read from a phonebook and I would still listen.

[@user-ep4tk4bv7b]

It's delusional to think it's just growing pains. When atomic and coal fired power stations were condemned for various reasons, pits closed etc, nuclear bases unwanted I knew that was the death knell of Scotland. These jobs employed a wide range of skills all gone, replaced by...? So, people left with few options emigrated. This has been going on for forty years. I come from the Irvine Valley; I moved South 50 years ago; sisters and brothers crossed the Pond. We can't even build a working ship now. No, Scotland is full of the walking dead. I always knew independence/devolution was nonsense, brought about by petty jealousies and hatred. I still visit for the beauty and to get away from the 'madding crowd' but I cry for Scotland's future. The English planned the colonising of the World; the Scots made it work.

[@BanjoLuke1]

Very succinct and also very comprehensive. I agree that this wobble is not the death knell of Holyrood... But I do believe it has hobbled the SNP and perhaps set it back decades. Whatever the outcome of future criminal cases, the party has become a laughing stock. That was avoidable and it is regrettable. An excellent tie-in of C of S and the party. Very thorough.

[@GRS1903]

Very well put and thought, devolution is the main problem, ever since then the whole Uk system has suffered, shut them all down now, certainly the Scottish government, you watch them and it’s like a posh School slagging match to concerned in trying to make each look stupid when quite frankly, they are all stupid

[@danielclarke-serret7288]

Excellent.