Budget 2024 "one hell of a risk" | Andrew Marr | The New Statesman

[@owenrichards1418]

So it's "Interventionist" to have the police actually turn up to a crime or not wait for 24 hours in the A&E? I just want stuff to actually work.

[@juliuslewis5393]

Last I checked it still doesn’t work

[@PeterWheeler-s8l]

@@juliuslewis5393 not after 14 years of cuts. Give it time

[@terrypankhurst7601]

@@SaintWill70 Ok you inherit a company that has been run into the ground over a long period of time, equiptment sold, staff underpaid and under trained, and whats left doesn't work, finally to top it off you have been left with no cash, now fix it in 6 months in a way that will improve future growth, protect your employees and fix your infrastructure. What you can't? then how would they do it to a country after 14 years of mismanagement that followed directly a economic meltdown world wide with the banking crisis.

[@Steve-s8k]

@@PeterWheeler-s8l You can give the NHS as much time as you want and it still won't help, because it isn't about money, it's about the running of it, which has been proved right because the Tories never cut the budget for it. Regardless of that, time will reveal that things will be worse because the policies are so ill thought out.

[@lonyo5377]

​@@Steve-s8kthe Tories enacted nonsensical changes like trying to make it a market where NHS trusts compete with each other to provide services, or perverse tax incentives to use private companies to provide NHS services at higher net taxpayer cost

[@trydowave]

we live in a low trust country and most people are deeply demoralised. Money isnt always the answer and i think people are beyond being apathetic.

[@prrrromotiongiven1075]

Money is a necessary component of any solution

[@trydowave]

@@prrrromotiongiven1075 i know. its just thats all we ever talk about in this country is GDP. I rarely hear anything about what makes people happy. Like spending more time with friends and family.

[@prrrromotiongiven1075]

@trydowave that's fine and all but this video is about the Chancellor's budget

[@trydowave]

@@prrrromotiongiven1075 fair enuf. Good point.

[@trevorfurness5695]

It's deeper than that though isn't it? Having a subservient and dumbed down population is in the interests of self interested power seeking billionaires. This budget is the first time that trend has been truly counteracted for decades.

[@aislingmcdonald6778]

Spot on!

[@Lifelongloser]

It’s also in the best interests of almost all religions of course.

[@celibin09]

30 years ago the Germans were paying just 2 to 3 % more than us in NI to keep their services We invested in property and that is what we wanted 400lk properties and dirty hospitals

[@englishsteve1465]

@@SaintWill70 really ? I see only the truth in the OP's comment tbh.

[@peterwright5311]

@@SaintWill70 "I can't say anything of substance so i'll chuck an insult out and hope nobody notices i'm an idiot."

[@siennajames462]

Working people, small businesses, farmers and pensioners are the angry ones. The rich got off relatively lightly.

[@Jimmy_Cream]

No

[@jontymo]

you missed out the benefits claimers!!

[@lolcat5303]

@@jontymo aka civil servants and politicos like Starmer? Right.

[@dburke1804]

Pensioners have higher incomes than working people in the UK.

[@terrytees]

There approach is centralization of all and everything, the national average wage hasn't stayed stagnant for decades and is one of the lowest in Europe. Things can only get worse, if you can leave this country asap.

[@pauljrogers2885]

I have a farm. The current land value is about £4M. So with the £1M allowance £3M will be subject to 20% IHT. That is £600,000. The problem is that the farm loses money most years and makes money in very few years. If we are very lucky, the annual profit averaged over good years and the bad years might amount to £20,000 per annum. Thus, even ignoring the interest charges and the fact that HMRC will estimate the land value for IHT well above the net market value, it would take 30 years of continuous risky hard work to pay the the IHT. However, perhaps half of the profit is not free cash flow, it is money we are forced to invest in newer farm machinery because old machines wear out. It is hard to see how this is a viable business proposition.

[@tidtidy4159]

I would suggest setting up a trust for the next generation. NFU for free advice..?

[@desertpoj]

When was your farm acquired?

[@pauljrogers2885]

@@tidtidy4159 Farming is a gamble. You gamble on the weather, pests, plant diseases and world prices for commodity crops. When the value of your land also becomes a gamble based on arbitrary laws, it might be sensible to recognize the writing on the wall. The proposed tax is the introductory rate. It will probably increase.

[@Heshhion]

Sell your farm, move to Australia and buy nice home for 1M and enjoy the rest living in the sun. England is now just Africa 2.0. Run while you still can.

[@pauljrogers2885]

@Darren-g6f On average the farm makes a small profit, but a terrible return on capital invested. By adding a 20% capital charge the Government makes a bad situation much worse. Buy a farm and find out first hand.

[@Eltener123]

The whole idea that attacking private schools is attacking aspiration is such a disgustingly classist take and I don't know why there's never been more pushback to it

[@Sam-y5o6j]

Aww sweetie, mater and pater buy you that opinion?

[@breadbreaker500]

⁠@@Sam-y5o6j my mother tried to get me into private school when we still lived on a council estate. In the end we went to state school, but having an aspiration can appeal to absolutely everybody. I would have liked to have seen this new policy means tested. There’s also the reality that many that have the means will just send their children to the best state schools, crowding out opportunities for those who do actually need it.

[@Phil-n7c]

I'm personally sick to the back teeth of the word "aspiration" - it means "I'm alright Jack, screw everybody else". I went to a private school so I know EXACTLY how the people in that world view the rest of society and it isn't nice. The top 10% have benefited from ALL the gains in national income over the last few decades while the poorest are now going to food banks. And that fact never ever enters into their cosseted little heads. In 2008 when we bailed out the banks we bailed out THEIR abysmal investment decisions and saved THEIR wealth. And in return we got 14 years of decline and cuts

[@DJWESG1]

@@Eltener123 who got attacked?

[@DJWESG1]

@@breadbreaker500 dont worry, the whole idea of "the school" is about to be turned in it's head. Long time coming too.

[@fatgrubman645]

After 14 years of cuts and wasted budgets it was honestly surprising to see one that was just very pragmatic - it's not going to bring about a new dawn or something, it just offers a view of potential stability and the correction of many lost years. We're not going to get out of the hole cutting taxes and just hoping things improve - we need cash in public services anda modest and intelligent selection of new infrastructure projects.

[@CatholicSatan]

Of course, before BRexit, the UK had access to the EBRD (loans for infrastructure projects) at extremely low rates (partially because the EBRD does not have bad loans). Not any more, so infrastructure investment costs more - directly as a result of BRexit. Another dividend!

[@TheLukeLambert]

@@CatholicSatan Let's all cheer together! Brexit dividends paying out for years to come, thank god they all voted for Brexit, or i'd not be able to cheer for a VAT exemption being removed for private schools!!

[@AndrewOdin-e1e]

​@CatholicSatan The constant elephant in the room is brexit. Labour must wake up the country to the never ending destruction brexit brings for the UK. The xenophobia that drove brexit is sickening and coupled with the notion that in a 21st century world Britain remains a force majoure. We are as strong as our alliances and our best allies lie now within Europe, which if it wanted to be is probably the major world economic power.

[@rickatatastan2695]

Indeed. It's a tiny step in the right direction. We need much, much more of this, despite the childish shouting from the nepobabies on the benches opposite.

[@Steve-s8k]

@@rickatatastan2695 If you think the policies implemented over the last few months are a step in the right direction, then I would seriously read up on the history of economics. Things will get a lot worse.

[@mrkristof8132]

*I'm glad you made this video* it reminds me of my transformation from a nobody to good home, $89k biweekly and a good daughter full of love..

[@StephSmith-j8t]

My advice to everyone is that saving is great but investment is the key to be successful imagine investing $15,000 and received $472,700.

[@meshlifeltd6127]

Hello, I'm a Doctor from Scotland, how do you make such amount? I'm a born Christian but sometimes I feel so down of myself because of low finance but I still believe in God.

[@mrkristof8132]

Making touch with financial advisors like *Janice Isaac Owen* who can assist you restructure your portfolio, would be a very creative option. Personal financial management will be crucial to navigating the next difficult times.

[@AD65]

"The rich are furious". Good. They must be doing something right then

[@andrewwaller5913]

Everyone is furious with this awful communist government.

[@SharonDelaneyosen]

The people who are not rich are furious also. So he's pissed everyone off then. But still some idiot will vote for the Pratt.

[@bpenny4352]

By ‘rich’ they generally class anyone not on benefits

[@gerryparker7699]

​@@bpenny4352 No, just those with second or third home, jets, shares portfolios, etc etc. Top 5% max

[@gerryparker7699]

@@bpenny4352 Used to feel well off but after 14 years of below inflation pay rises etc I feel worse of and on the way to poor.

[@pamelsims2068]

Everyone , before the election, says " The NHS needs more money." as long as other people will be paying more tax. It is amazing how soon opinions change when fiscal changes begin to bite their arse! Give it time.... let's see what people are saying this time next year.

[@terencefield3204]

No. Intelligent informed people said the NHS is a fundamental broken, a cannot-deliver health-care model that needed rapid replacement with a hybrid continental model that offers FAR FAR better out-comes. I have family members who have died at the hands of the horrific NHS system. Many others have the same tragedy in their lives. Indeed vast numbers do,

[@Matt-ou7tu]

​@@terencefield3204The UK public couldn't afford a continental European model of health care. Wages are too crap.

[@Anna-hu2ws]

They said: the NHS needs to be reformed!!!

[@terencefield3204]

@@Matt-ou7tu the Hybrid system requires the PROSPEROUS to shoulder the added cost and the full integration of public and private clinics and hospitals adds IMMENSE capacity

[@profc9916]

I think you just proved their point 😂​@@terencefield3204

[@blister6884]

Just found out four of us will be losing our jobs tomorrow, the company is going to close . My wife’s job is a pub cook three days a week and that’s all we will have. I just hope that it keeps going. I do understand why, but I am really done in! 😮

[@Sethorion99]

It sucks at first but you'll bounce back and find something new, I'm sure.

[@alelemounsk6544]

You'll be OK mate. I've been there. It's difficult, but there is always a way to make money and failing that stealing from supermarkets is easy haha

[@desertpoj]

@@blister6884 I wish you the best. I was made redundant during COVID but I have since got back up in a different industry.

[@MrTanukiD]

A tax on private schools is not a tax on aspiration. It doesn't limit social mobility for the majority. Having underfunded state schools does.

[@susanjackett9268]

It's downright cruel. Labour us abusing CHILDREN, who will always wonder why they were dragged away from life long pals, teachers they adore. Facilities that amaze. Some unable to get places jn their local facility, so Labour us actually willing to pay fir these children to travel MILES AWAY. BY TAXI. One family on one blog has 3 children at 3 separate schools outside of their zone? So, that's OK is it, especially when one considers charity schools have picked up and backed SEND CHILDREN from closed specialist state😢😮 schools. Please remember the word CHILDREN PLEASE ? CRUEL AND DISGUSTING

[@richardschofield2201]

Two things that should never be taxed. Education and Health services. I assume you agree universities shouldn't be taxed. Why have a different view on private schools? We also now have a precedent of charities that the government don't like being taxed. Consider for a moment what that might lead to in the future.

[@johnbutcher2587]

@@susanjackett9268absolute rubbish , rich kids can go and cry on their 5 holidays, the kids living in houses with cockroaches is who you should worry about. Absolute joke.

[@Steve-s8k]

@@johnbutcher2587 You are so out of touch and have the usual politics of envy. These rich kids you talk about are a small percentage and are the ones going to Eton and Harrow. The majority are families who instead of spending their money on themselves, sacrifice everything to give their child what they think is a better education and start in life and instead of condemning them, they should be applauded. What you should be thinking is, those parents have already paid their taxes towards the education system but they choose not to use it and therefore are not adding to the burden. So if parents now can't afford to go private, they will be adding far more to the burden than any vat the government will get back.

[@AlanLambert]

@@Steve-s8k Pure Politics of Envy. Hit the Middle Classes, typical Labour gumpf. appalling. Taxing Education is obscene to ebvery right thinking person.

[@chieftandriver703]

Andrew Marr. The face of the impartial BBC political correspondent

[@neildee9834]

😅

[@DSonBlue]

😂

[@DillahuntSilmon]

I'm favoured only God knows how much I praise Him, $230k every 4weeks! I now have a big mansion and can now afford anything and also support God’s work and the church.

[@DegeorgeGoswami]

Wow that's huge, how do you make that much monthly?

[@BoshersYarzabal]

Only God knows how much grateful i am. After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!

[@LentineAbplanalp]

I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??

[@IvanPaula-ck9sl]

I remember giving her my first saved up $20000 and she opened a brokerage account with it for me, it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me.

[@SimplotElbie]

[@atrociousliar3314]

I agree with taxes such as increasing buy to let stamp duty, but that came in that night without any notice. House purchase chains are collapsing all over the place because of this. No problem with the policy, but having this without warning has hurt many people for no reason whatsoever.

[@ElmugreTV]

@@atrociousliar3314 house purchase chains are collapsing?

[@TheLukeLambert]

Hilarious take, where is the evidence for this? Even if it were true (which is isn't) then slowing demand for SECONDARY HOMES at a time when people cannot afford their first, is probably a good thing, socially and economically. First homes are actually more lucrative than a Landlord's portfolio for the gov't, when you understand how economics works.

[@andyjefferson2161]

I’m paid just above minimum wage. I fully endorse this budget.

[@andrewwaller5913]

Thats fine but you do realise companies will simply increase their prices so your increase in pay will be swallowEd up.

[@dobcsek]

With this budget, you will be staying on minimum wage and cost of living won’t go down either.

[@arkskotch1589]

​​@@dobcsekthe tories would be doing less for him

[@Jon-pc6ch]

Wait till borrowing feeds into inflation, the rise in wage will not be enough.

[@dobcsek]

@@arkskotch1589 probably! I don’t endorse either of these parties. The main problem with this country is that both main parties are terrible (quite honestly the smaller parties are as well - it’s like no one has a fucking clue).

[@Bluejohn]

There seems to be a general opinion that it's only the rich who are leaving this country, it isn't. Many ordinary people are leaving too simply because they are fed up with successive governments promising much and delivering nothing.

[@dobcsek]

I’m not rich and I’m moving to the US. This country is a downward spiral and this government won’t fix the issue. I might come back if it gets better though.

[@cynicalpenguin]

​@@dobcsek You're leaving the UK because it's in a downward spiral and your choice is the USA? 😂

[@dobcsek]

@@cynicalpenguinI don’t care much about US politics but I’m tripling my income and halve the taxes. Also, on my field it’s one of the best countries one could move for professional experience. Besides, I’m moving from a nearly 10 million city where I spend over 2 hours on commute to a much smaller city. For me personally, it was a no brainer. I know people keep mentioning Dubai and the Middle East to move to but for me personally, it wouldn’t tick many boxes.

[@clam4597]

People leaving not because they're rich, they don't want to be even poorer.

[@Misiu223]

Any sensible person who wants a decent quality of life for themselves and their children will now be looking at options for moving abroad We are tired of always having to pay for other people's failures

[@AndrewOdin-e1e]

Missing a long overdue reset with the EU? Still to come I should think. This would improve our national prosperity enormously. Keep eyes on this move.

[@-tom-8720]

Wouldn't help us at all

[@superted6960]

No mandate for it, regardless of whether it's a good idea or not. This is not a can of worms that KS dare touch

[@AndrewOdin-e1e]

@@-tom-8720 Europe has always been the way forward for Great Britain. A true leader amongst the pack and not a grumpy old outsider for whom nothing is right and it's all someone else's fault. Shame on the boomers who prospered and then became xenophobic. In any event, the future belongs to those under 40. Let them decide.

[@AndrewOdin-e1e]

@superted6960 Courage mon brave! KS needs it in spades if he's to lead a truely significant renaissance for Great Britain. We've lived by ill founded nostalgia and incompetence for too long under the conservatives and whatever the pretender Farage is fronting this month. Both these forces have sold us short since 2010. Why were all the moderate conservatives of a different mind to Johnson and his circus purged from the tory party? Because that's the fact of it. He and his cronies should all take 100 lines each - 'don't interfere with adult responsibilities and decisions ever again'.

[@chrisdechristophe]

Or rather tank it!

[@pastyman001]

The scale of the collapse of public services and NHS require a big budget, or they cannot seriously be dealt with. The balance of measures was skillfully carried out. The farming issue needs to be closely examined though

[@GunnySerg]

You're a left wing fantasist. You could get what the NHS delivers for half by just paying private providers.

[@jan2000nl]

There are huge structural issues with the NHs including large drop in productivity, out sourcing of services resulting in massive profits to third parties. Let’s see how they deal with these or they just keep pouring money into an increasingly broken and massive organisation

[@cybergornstartrooper2157]

@@jan2000nlbut all of these problems require investment to sort out. To save money you sometimes need to spend money. The question is will this money just disappear into the NHS black hole or will they seriously invest in digital infrastructure.

[@jan2000nl]

@@cybergornstartrooper2157 Agreed

[@superted6960]

Some productivity improvements might take investment to sort out, but plenty don't. We'll see how wisely the NHS spends this money in the fullness of time, but the rest of the public sector remains well and truly stuffed, Beyond next year there's a cap on cost increases of less than 2% (1.5% was it? I can't be bothered to look it up). The Govt will struggle to hold the line on this, without coming back for more money or facing down a strike or two.

[@Dom-fk3te]

I'm afraid that this view is horribly far to the right of how I view most issues but working in the NHS has made me cynical. I believe the vast amount of people that make absolutely no effort to live a healthy life should not be subsidized to the detriment of everyone else. The system simply will never be able to cope, we need to accept personal responsibility.

[@brianeke2586]

It’s not just the rich who are furious!

[@davidmccarter9479]

Let’s see how many trade unions expand their memberships over the next five years. It doesn’t matter whether national insurance is targeted at employer or employee , it is still a cost to employing people. Let’s see how it plays out. And let’s see if family run farming businesses become private equity owned, Wall Street licking their lips. Who do you think owns our veterinary surgeries? Let’s see.

[@englishsteve1465]

"The very rich are furious" said Marr. GOOD ! This country must change and NOT continue moving closer to the American model, which brings growth BUT all of it goes to the already fabulously wealthy, whilst ordinary people get nothing or less than nothing.

[@asher8464]

Deluded.

[@tomh2121]

The middle class in America live good lives. It’s not only the super wealthy. I’m all for criticising America when they deserve it but I’d double my income by moving to the States. I would definitely be wealthier. America is just a terrible place to be poor.

[@JohnnyinMN]

Continual class envy is your problem. I’m a middle-class American with great, private health insurance. I continue to invest, OWN my home, and work hard (55 hours/week). It’s all about doing better than my parents. Neo-liberalism pervades the English. It’s time to move on from the 19th century and thinking the government will solve all your problems. Dirty rivers, your NHS, Brexit, etc. England hasn’t been ‘superior’ for 100 years.

[@adampreslar2802]

50% of American households make more than 60k GBP/yr. It's terrible to be poor in my home country, but most people are doing better than here. Without London, the UK is Mississippi, the poorest US state, on the basis of per capita GDP. With London, the UK is Missouri, the 15th poorest.

[@petersmith6520]

The average American is much better off than the average UK resident. UK is stagnation nation while US economy is still growing strongly

[@JohnGrayOnline]

Seeing Marr here (now so obviously partisan for Labour) it's disconcerting to remember how during all those years he was at the BBC, masquerading as an unbiased commentator, I listened to, even liked, him The first time I smelled a rat was when he couldn't hide his enthusiasm for Salmond/SNP's anti-English stance prior to the 2014 referendum ...

[@andymellor9056]

Perhaps he's still being objective, and it's your bias that's the issue?

[@JohnGrayOnline]

@@andymellor9056 Of course that's possible Andy. You have to make a judgement on that.

[@dburke1804]

lol, he’s obviously a small c conservative you div

[@lindawilding5516]

Working people, whom they cant define, or wont, will pay the price in higher interest, lower wages etc etc

[@burchelwinkler9778]

It's not possible for labour 2 fix anythimg;even worse they have lied 2 the people;

[@aislingmcdonald6778]

Well, public services workers, the poor and disabled have been stripped to to bone to shoulder the consequences of private greed for 14 plus years! Now it's the turn of the mega rich to shoulder the problem!!

[@Phil-n7c]

Exactly. But they don't care. They really don't care. We bailed out their fictitious financial wealth in 2008 and it's just expected that that should be the case.

[@braindonor8753]

I call bullshit ​@@SaintWill70

[@braindonor8753]

​@@SaintWill7017k workers in HMRC had their wages put up this week... because they are below minimum wage. That's how poorly paid the public sector is. Every telephone tax advisor or post worker was below minimum wage. I can't understand why you wouldn't just change jobs if you haven't had a pay rise in 20 years?

[@williamwallace6508]

farmers and employers hiring employees are not mega rich you numpty

[@superted6960]

​@@braindonor8753Perhaps a change in the pension provision might change the balance between what is paid now, and what is deferred to the future

[@CatholicSatan]

Oh dear... those "poor" rich people. The wealth inequality of the UK has grown since Margaret Thatcher with the richest grabbing more of the UK income pot and the less well off staying static. Furthermore, the UK has very high inequality of income compared to other developed countries: the 9th most _unequal_ incomes of 38 OECD countries and with the top fifth taking 36% of the country’s income and 63% of the country’s wealth, while the bottom fifth have only 8% of the income and only 0.5% of the wealth. Some correction is obviously necessary.

[@nixer65]

@@CatholicSatan this isn’t likely to fix that though

[@-tom-8720]

Nothing wrong with inequality. Poverty is the issue and Poverty as a percentage has gone down. To the extent their has been any absolute rise in Poverty I'd because we've imported mass amounts of dependents

[@gregm9447]

The change to employers NICs (generating most of the tax increase) is expected to hit middle to low/middle earners the most. No idea why anyone thinks this budget will reduce inequality.

[@janwynne-woodhouse5144]

​@@-tom-8720I would ask if you went to private school with attitudes like that. But then I see your grammar and i wonder if you went to school.

[@Plumduff3303]

No more risky than 14 years of the evil tories

[@dazzassti]

Clearly not a cognitively totally biased statement 🤣🤦

[@felixarbable]

I mean they ruined the country it's not bias it's modern history that we all lived through lol ​@@dazzassti

[@QPRTokyo]

You certainly have been brainwashed . You obviously have never studied THIS Labour Party in depth. Harold Wilson must be spinning in his grave. I am a liberal and I would never vote for this useless piece of anti British garbage party. This Labour Party only cares about its own people and that is definitely not the hard working people of the UK. Naturally they have the Marxist led union leadership in their pocket. I remember when decent union leaders were removed by stealth and replaced with Marxists. They eventually caused the unions to be nearly everything but destroyed. I have never voted for the Conservatives but the best people I have ever do. I would certainly consider this Labour Party as EVIL

[@MsMivvi]

@@felixarbable If convid had not come along, the tories would have been reelected.

[@michaelfoy]

​@felixarbable TOTALLY correct....IN particular our Vital public Services that are essential to a functioning, healthy Nation.....

[@Vincent-ow9lj]

Stagnant future wages, except for politicians!

[@VinceLammas]

I'm not sure stagnant wages is a NEW thing!

[@jameslewis2635]

@@VinceLammas No, we've had them for the last 14 years, that's the point.

[@Lynnpjjbdndji]

14 years of a stagnant country .... Wile millionaires increased by 840 .... We want public services back !!!!

[@1ForTheShieldz]

Wow 840 made a bit more money put of 80 million of us! You think that's not a sign of jealousy? You have a good therapy session at your lack of effort and skill and ability this week. Unbelievable.

[@Waterhouse1666]

Not the rich, no! Such a great bunch of lads 😒

[@davidorrell764]

High tax poor public service. Thats the crux of privatisation right there.

[@EnglishFolkWisdom]

On the question of the terrible time that public sector workers have had in the last few years ... in the area in which I work public sector employees were furloughed on full pay during covid but did little of their actual work, and they have subsequently moved to higher levels of working from home and zooming in their contributions. It's a nice life actually, with a tangible cash bonus having accrued from those changes

[@Jon-hh3gz]

Not in social work, crumbling buildings, lack of staff, too much case work per person, councils near bankruptcy so can't spend anymore.

[@jaisriram295]

As a public sector worker myself I can confirm that over half the staff did next to nothing during the pandemic using the excuse that they didn't have private space at home at home...hint it was generally those with multiple generations in their home...post pandemic it's the same people not coming into the office for the 60% but bosses won't do anything about it because a certain demographic is over represented

[@EnglishFolkWisdom]

@@Jon-hh3gz Yes, and the privilege that public sector colleagues have allows them to declare themselves unable to do their jobs, unable to help their client groups, unable to meet statutory deadlines, and none of it's their fault and all of it requires full pay thank you

[@jeremymanson1781]

Doctors had a thirty percent real terms pay cut since 2010. Many have left for Canada, Australia and New Zealand where they are paid double for less hours. Its called market forces / supply and demand.

[@wolfen210959]

During furlough, no worker, public or private, was allowed to do any work, it was the main rule of furlough, and no worker received full pay as the max allowed to be paid was 80%, so how many more lies are you going to tell? I suspect envy, maybe because you were regarded as an essential worker and weren't allowed to be furloughed, which seems more plausible, as you don't even know the rules of furlough.

[@josephinepalfreyman6665]

The split in this country is no longer class, it's public sector employees versus private, those who make money versus those who spend other people's. In April this year the employers pensions contributions for teachers went up to 28.3%, so each year their employers save more than a quarter of their salary for their pensions, no wonder they can retire at 55 when those in the private sector have to work a further 11 years to 66. These not funded or invested for, they are paid by taxpayers, who work in the private sector.

[@cjf7364]

Everyone has avoided this comment. Us vs them is as clear as ever.

[@solomonsmith3658]

Teachers salaries are appalling so in the first place, why do you think we have a shortage of teachers?

[@william_marshal]

They don't spend other people's money because the rich don't pay anywhere near their fair share of taxes, that's why were in this mess !!!

[@Mike-H_UK]

@@solomonsmith3658 Maybe they don't know what to do with themselves in the long holidays apart from plan what to do with a pension that private sector workers can only dream about?

[@Sweet_Zombie_Cheezuz]

Ha, what a laughable take... 🤣 'Those who make money v those who spend other people's'... What exactly do you think the public sector does? It provides all the services that don't make money, yet are essential for a functioning society. Let me break it down for you... Where would your kids go to school, what roads would you drive on, what emergency health services would look after you, what police force would prevent crime in your neighborhood, what army would protect you...etc.etc. on and on. You truly believe that the Private Sector could survive without the Public Sector? The private sector AND the public sector are essential. There's no split... There never has been, we need both always have, always will.

[@johnlindsay3820]

All good but… Why not remove the subsidy on fuel duty - £1.90 a litre when it was introduced- now £1.35 Increased minimum wage will hit employers Increased NI will hit employers They will balance their budgets just like RR has to. They will be revising these budgets for ‘25 over the coming days. So less employment and less investment. Like it or not the private sector is the revenue generator. What happened to growth! Also care homes and gp practices should be exempt for the NI hit - basic error. No mention of reform to go hand in hand with increased NHS funds which is so badly needed (just ask someone who works there).

[@acmdv]

What disappointed me was a lack of any acknowledgement let alone effort to rebalance our economy so it is less reliant on the services sector, you could rebalance the economy & grow GDP without the need for huge growth. There should be a higher emphasis on quality of life as the leading priority of the economy, there are countries out there that have a consistent sustainable lower level of long-term growth where they have a much higher quality of life, we should be looking at those countries.

[@jsbarretto]

I think there has been quite a lot of that already? Planning reform, energy sector investment, building up a new industrial strategy. Seems like they're doing a lot to diversify the economy. All that aside, don't fall into the trap of thinking that services are fundamentally unproductive: they are not. They're just as much a part of our economy as any other industry.

[@acmdv]

@@jsbarretto True but they are still to hyper-fixated on growth over quality of life.

[@jsbarretto]

@@acmdv At this point in time, where the UK is at today, they are pretty much the same the same thing.

[@lutherblissett9070]

You are right, but the truth is the calibre of politician in Westminster is abysmal, they are almost all intellectual lightweights, they get ahead by dancing to the tune of the media, rather than being capable or insightful. That is why the former Bank of England Tea Girl we have as Chancellor thought it was smart to box herself in with promises of no tax rises, and promises of "growth" without ever thinking about what that actually means. It was always a buzzword they thought people wanted to hear because it made them sound smart. Everything is tactical, and there is no strategy at all.

[@Casper-we3dq]

More of the same but with even higher taxes, and at a faster pace. Hopefully after 4 years of this people will finally wake up and realise not all our problems are caused by a lack of ever bigger government spending.

[@nickkowal6537]

It's not a risk it's just a budget. The Tories got away with austerity for 14 years.

[@longnewton1]

The problem with the budget is that labour is taxing employment. This will lead to reduced employment and/or lower wages, which may lead to a recession. By the way, we do not need fast economic growth - it will trash the planet.

[@GG-qx5uc]

The only tax rate increases, I think, were on stamp duty and capital gains which is the ball park of the rich. The tax thresholds on income were frozen but at least they weren't reduced and the rates were not increased. National insurance contribution only increased for employers. So I disagree with your statement that they are taxing employment

[@longnewton1]

@@GG-qx5uc employers national insurance is a direct tax on employment. Employers pay this tax as a percentage of wages. When it rises, it cost more to employ people. Simple.

[@matthewcook9404]

Don't worry about the billionaires. If they spend £1,000 per day, it would take them 2,739 years to spend one billion pounds. They literally wouldn't be around long enough to spend it in their own, very brief, lifetime.

[@1ForTheShieldz]

Stupid comment. I don't think anyone is bothered by billionaires, if we took every penny off them and gave 1 quid a day to everyone we wouldn't have enough to see parliament through. The problem is they are harming the working people and small businesses! You just arnt bright enough to see that.

[@paulwilloughby1]

Naive

[@lutherblissett9070]

@@paulwilloughby1 Simple maths.

[@chrisdechristophe]

Oh the ignorance of this statement is staggering. 😮

[@saucysaucysauce2546]

In fact they will take infinite time for them to spend their wealth under current rules, and it will grow larger and larger because of an asset focused economy.

[@c1p2d88]

NMW will be inflationary, no two ways about it. At the same time, companies and employers will lose profit - labour costs are usually a businesses biggest cost. Guess what - reduced hours, less recruitment with shorter contracts offered and prices increased. It's not hard to understand. Also, if you raise the NMW, the next level up in the organisation also want a payrise to avoid wage compression. This is what happens in the real world.

[@sacredgongs]

Raising the minimum wage Quote.. the reality as it stands now after the disastrous budget.. In 2014 minimum wage was £6.50 meaning a 40hr week a worker earnt £13520 per year with a tax free threshold of £9400. In 2025 minimum wage will be £12.21 meaning a 40hr week worker will earn £25396 and the tax free threshold is £12570. So currently approximately 50% of their income is subject to income tax and ni. Where as a decade ago about only approximately 30% of it was. So if you have been a minimum wage worker for the last 10 years you are significantly worse off than you once were and that's before extra cost of bills and day to day prices. So all these hikes in minimum wage mean nothing. The tax free threshold would need to be approximately £18000 to have the same value out of your wages. Wasn't there a party who were suggesting a 20k threshold?

[@dj33781]

Question, will people have more or less take home pay (actual £ amounts) through this budget than they did under the tories from 2020 (covid) through to 2024? What I don't understand is why the British have an aversion towards paying more taxes when your public services are shockingly awful and has been in regression for decades. Isn't it better to raise money through taxation and use it to fund things the country needs to thrive, or should the UK continue as it is on a downward spiral where everyone has an effective negative wage growth for years on end?

[@specialized500]

Blimey that was total nonsense

[@englishsteve1465]

Your maths do not add up, not even close. Doh ! Yes the tax free bit would need to be approx double to benefit at the same pro - rata rate as your 2014 example.......so you don't benefit _as much_ BUT you still benefit............and by a pretty hefty amount too ! Your sleight of hand / misleading last 2 sentences give away your intent to deceive.

[@TamaDrummer4263]

​@dj33781 yep. Businesses cannot thrive with a sick, poorly educated workforce and disintegrating infrastructure. 👍🏻

[@neilcameron434]

I think you need to adjust the wage for inflation. I believe minimum wage has exceeded inflation so the picture is likely not as bleak when comparing their wage to the tax free threshold. I do agree with the the sentiment, someone on minimum wage paying tax on 50% of their income doesn't seem progressive.

[@ericwright9771]

Paying the public sector more won’t improve services.

[@william_marshal]

And paying them less won't either ... as George Osbourne found out !!!

[@ericwright9771]

@ Thanks for agreeing with me, the increase in wages doesn’t improve services. The waiting lists for cancer patients should have taken priority. The Labour Party needs to come clean about using the private health service to clear the backlog.

[@DidgeTunes]

A very clever budget. How to tax the workers without the workers even realising. The rise in employer national insurance will be deducted from employees pay rises, so ultimately the normal working person will pay. The Labour Party have always been very good at hiding their tax increases, this budget is no exception. With the exception of non-doms, the super wealthy will remain super wealthy. This country desperately needs a wealth tax, but Starmer won't go there, possibly because he himself is very wealthy.

[@ecnalms851]

The criticism about workers’ pay rises doesn’t make sense as wages have already been stagnant in this country for 15 years. So even with businesses having had low national insurance rates, they haven’t been giving pay rises for a decade and a half.

[@gregm9447]

Yep. The IFS estimates the employer NIC’s rise will be mostly felt by the employee (and mostly low and middle earners due to the lowering of the threshold)

[@paulwilloughby1]

You are doing what the Labour party has always done, assuming the masses are stupid. Probably the reason Labour has spent so little time in government over the years

[@william_marshal]

Only for non union members, you know the dummies who have nobody to negotiate for them .... do you see now why the Tories want to get rid of the unions !!!

[@happychappy7115]

"You can't snap your fingers and get growth"😊

[@1ForTheShieldz]

*under labour no matter how long you wait or how many times you snap. There finished hour sentence for you.

[@turquoise7817]

@@1ForTheShieldz actually, ignoring the recession (which affected the entire world, not just the UK) the last labour govt oversaw a fairly substantial growth in the economy

[@1ForTheShieldz]

@turquoise7817 oh right but liz truss caused global inflation still I bet in your book 😂

[@william_marshal]

I can get instant growth with my fingers ... it's called a hard on 😅🤣😂

[@chrisdechristophe]

​@@turquoise7817😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@jamest5149]

I think you missed the elephant in the room Brexit, or more importantly, closer alignment to the EU, this will drive the growth and reduce the costs that Brexit implies.

[@marksimons8861]

Add in Trump's proposed tariff on imports to close off the US economy to British goods and services.

[@trytellingthetruth.2068]

​@@marksimons8861 When it comes to tariffs on imports to close off economies, the EU is doing the exact same thing against the UK, and especially when it comes to countries such as China.

BRINO

[@philipwittamore]

Ah, a rehash of getting the perks of the EU without the cost. Dream on.

[@alexyoung3812]

If only we could have a booming economy like Germany and France …. Oh wait🤷🏼

[@alingard1]

funny how companies and millionaires still live and invest in Europe with their higher taxes and better services..... well done reeves. That's a start.

[@jan2000nl]

Everyone supports tax rises until it affects them. Let’s see how this pans out.

[@garyb455]

They don't that's why the EU has declined over 50% economically compared to the USA in just 15 years

[@ELYASELYAS]

@@garyb455Nonsene! The US has spent far more than the EU in its recovery plans in that time, that's why they are ahead. Has nothing to do the stupid trickle down propoganda of right wing Lettucites.

[@glassmuxxic]

They don't. They start their businesses in Europe, then sell them or move them to the US. The continent (and us) are stagnating and unproductive.

[@4adiarmuid]

@@glassmuxxic the US will tank if trump gets in - will make brexit look like a footnote

[@sacredgongs]

The private sector will shrink and the bloated public sector will drag the economy down.

[@scrumtious1]

Yes the private sector has been doing so well for us until now. Especially considering our very clean water and super low energy prices 🙄

[@jsbarretto]

The public sector is not a drag, that's not how any of this works.

[@sacredgongs]

@ rubbish

[@thierryploum5923]

The royal family should be 'invited" to put the monies in their accounts to its proper use and cover entirely the current national £40B shortfall; for QCIII (King Charles III) to show for the first time in his young life that this former motto really was "Ich dien" ("I serve", for the un-initiated), and not "I help myself". Honi soit qui mal y pense, indeed, to anyone who objected. ... and why not when the cost of some £250M of his pointless coronation was borne by the public, instead of 'his' own savings, during our (not) late lamented conservative misrule, paid for with their cut backs to much needed food banks' budgets in our on-going cost of living crisis. NB2: All the big land owners, the duke of Westminster et al, with the royal family and 'their' property portfolio, can also be 'invited' to cover the remaining £trillion of so of national debt from their bulging coffers, since in all their born days and over the centuries, they supported and were supported by their royal co-conspirators, no doubt paying only a paltry and nominal bill of taxes..

[@BAmalakas]

Invited at bayonet point, yes

[@thierryploum5923]

@@BAmalakas I was thinking more of straight forward state confiscation if they did not accept that such societal inequality is profoundly damaging morally as well as economically to the nation; that nations in which their inhabitants have far more equality, fare much better and their peoples are happier. We must not care that the rich are angry; they always will be, just as dogs bark, because they only see themselves as entitled to the monies they pay relatively much less tax on than the rest of us. If they do leave, we can confiscate their properties, and chase after them for back or retro-active taxes. If one nation succeeds in taxing the rich as they used to be taxed many decades ago (at least in the US), other western nations will borrow the knowledge and will apply it. The threat of the rich leaving us will be doubly diffused, as it may cause them to pay out punishing penalties than if they had stayed. Since they mentioned Trump, notice how "rich beyond the dreams of avarice" Bezos has forbidden his little toy, The Washington Post, from declaring which candidate they would vote for, to avoid the wrath of this irrational and convicted criminal president (were he elected) from going after him. Notice, too, how Musk has also been offering $1M bribes for Trump votes, only really to protect his billions; which may yet be publicly proven to be a criminal act of vote tampering.

[@martincurrie6243]

I know someone who works for an agency employing care workers, their national insurance bill will go up by £180,000, the care providers won't pay them anymore money though.

[@suhailski]

I am moderately encouraged. It’s always been obvious to me that we have been cakeist for a long time and it has caught up with us. Now we need to figure out a way to undo the brexit mistake. Surely that is even more obvious because we are all in the same ‘boat’.

[@-tom-8720]

Except for the fact brexit hasn't made the economy worse

[@suhailski]

@ it has for me personally

[@superted6960]

​@@suhailskiIf you write to Rachel Reeves she'll put a special provision in next year's budget just for you.

[@suhailski]

@ I have been writing to my leaders since the 90s. The only leader who wrote back was Steve Jobs.

[@wannabeadrummer]

​@@-tom-8720How much has it cost us?

[@andrewrose7800]

The rich are very angry...maybe, but also are farmers, the elderly, employers. Seems everyone will be hit, except for maybe public sector employees.

[@DJWESG1]

Rich elderly farmer employers are angry . Why not just write "land owning aristocracy" and save the time and effort?

[@ElmugreTV]

@@andrewrose7800 usually, a budget hits everyone BUT the wealthy. Nice to see a budget without tories helping themselves.

[@andrewrose7800]

Oh dear. Another outmoded view, come the Revolution... In spite of Labour's defensive response, and Starmer saying farming is in his DNA, far more than 25% of farms will be subject to this tax grab. Labour just don't understand, or don't want to understand the plight of farmers. It's misguided political envy, the same envy and spite employed as taxing education.

[@gabrielc1989w]

People on minimum wage will be very benefited. I think angry is the wrong word anyway. I have never seen anyone angry because tax has gone up. Tax has been going up for millions of the low incomes for years by fiscal drag. They maybe annoyed or unhappy about it, but angry? 😂

[@alexyoung3812]

@@ElmugreTVbut it’s the wealthy that employ us plebs , without them we have no income , no income means no public sector

[@SwatantraNandanwar]

Be Bold. Time and Tide wait for no man Reeves has done the right thing. And Markets if they are sensible will recognise that. Laying the foundations requires investment. You can't keep cutting to the bone otherwise you're left with a skeleton which even adog will turn it's nose up against. Atllee was Bold in '45

[@jsbarretto]

Correct. Now is the time to chart a new course.

[@trevorlyttletonmbe6081]

Rachel Reeves has sadly killied the goose that lays the golden egg and failed to justify her claim to fiscal responsibility by explaining:- 1. how ending non-dom tax status will raise £3.2 billion, without accounting for the cost of the escalating exodus of high-achieving non-doms and relocation of their assets, businesses and charitable largesse outside the UK. 2. how much the Treasury will receive from VAT on private schools after deducting: (a) the costs incurred by state schools faced with an influx of children whose fee-paying parents can no longer afford the private option and (b) the loss to private schools of substantial foreign currency income that threatens the survival of many of these centres of excellence.😅

[@FlatToRentUK]

Since early 2020 our GDP per capita is down 1.1% (for some reference in the EU it is up 2.7%). We've got overall declining living standards with our only overall headline GDP growth being from staggeringly high levels of immigration. Starmer keeps banging on about growth but we're not going to get any. If we're lucky in 4 years our living standards will be back to 2020 levels. A huge amount of the blame here is Brexit. There's just no two ways about it. And the OBR highlighted that most Brexit pain is still to come. So with the massive trump card available to Starmer of properly easing trade friction with the EU (his "reset" will achieve zilch) he's chosen to placate a few people that don't matter and aren't in touch with reality. What a pathetic man.

[@notthere83]

I haven't read the budget myself but seem to recall having heard that they put restrictions in to not hurt low income people? I'm bringing this up regarding inheritance tax. Surely, there's a threshold that means that small farmers won't be affected? As for those who own land worth millions or billions - who cares?

[@jozsefdebreceni9911]

Inheritance tax should be abolished all together

[@paki20]

A friend of mine has a farm worth about £7m him and his brother farm it with his father and uncle (both in their 80’s) they have one full time staff member, what about that isn’t a family farm? They don’t have and never did have the £1m that the government will demand of them if his dad dies, They aren’t selling the farm, they don’t have the £7m, the farm was paid for and tax paid when it was purchased

[@notthere83]

​@@paki20 If it's really worth those 7m, surely some bank will cough up the 1m. Also... they could sell part of the land?

[@paki20]

@@notthere83 would you lend someone £1m for a business that doesn’t make a lot of money and for the money tonbe used on something that is a pure liability and doesn’t improve the business in anyway? Or how will the business survive if they loose 20% of their productive land/fodder?

[@notthere83]

@@paki20 If the business is so unprofitable that they wouldn't be able to even pay back a loan (which I would give them for sure if they could make the monthly payments) but the value that high, I don't understand why they haven't just sold everything long ago! With that kind of money, they and their children could live in luxury for a long, long time!

[@MrHotrod79]

They don’t have a mandate for this lurch to the left and bigger state. The county moved right and split the vote (along with Tory fatigue). The votes for this government don’t warrant this kind of move (given it was not in their manifesto)

[@jsbarretto]

I think the most interesting thing about this budget is how clearly it's drawn a line between the so-called 'champagne socialists', and those that have actually thought about what it entails. This is a real social democratic budget. A sharp departure from the logic of old. It's a brave move by Reeves, but it is the time for brave moves. I am personally very hopeful: the OBR are *probably* low-balling growth because a lot of the measures they use to estimate it have come to exist during a period of Tory economic contraction: it is hard to quantify the effect of planning reform, of improving public services, of improving workers rights, because we've not seen anything like that in almost 20 (or even 40) years and have little useful data to go by, only theory. And so the OBR doesn't quantify it. Instead, they do as all good economists do, and assume *ceteris paribus*: all other things are equal. I think their estimates will be revised up over coming months and years as the effect of these wider changes are felt.

[@trytellingthetruth.2068]

Compounding debt on top of debt in the hope of economic growth is all the Labour has done. We produce nothing worth selling to the rest of the world other than services. Tax increases are the only way this country raises funds.

[@jsbarretto]

@@trytellingthetruth.2068 That's not true, and the injection of investment into green energy will improve things further. The UK produces a lot of high-value goods: industrial equipment, software systems, aircraft components, and specialist tools (I'm employed in one of those sectors). For example, you'll find that a lot of satellites actually have a surprising number of British components inside them. Yes, we don't make steam locomotive boilers any longer: but you know what? Nobody does. I know that it's fashionable to be very doom-and-gloom, but there is a lot of latent potential in the UK economy and it needs only a sustained period of investment and strategic removing of barriers (like planning reform) to unlock it. This is Labour's focus. Worry less about public sector debt. It is easily predicted and rarely hampers growth. The best-performing economies in the world tend to have relatively high public sector debt. Much more important than public debt is industrial capacity, balance of payments, productivity, and GDP. We finally have a government that understands this, and is taking advantage of the opportunities available.

[@TheLukeLambert]

@@trytellingthetruth.2068 How else would you plan to reverse the damage done by austerity? Are we meant to just keep cutting and cutting, till we're in a surplus and no schools, NHS private, pensions private, private police, fire, refuse, where would you like it to end? You say we have nothing worth selling to the world, yeah maybe we should stop selling the things that are useful. All our "worth" has been sold, time to take it back thanks.

[@jsbarretto]

@@TheLukeLambert Absolutely: The only thing I'd question is the idea that we'll *ever* achieve a meaningful budget surplus by relentlessly cutting things. A state that does not invest leads to a poorer country, a poorer country leads to less tax revenue. If you look at the wealthiest and most productive nations on the planet, they also have some of the highest levels of public spending. That is not correlation or causation, but *symbiosis*: economic growth and public spending each support one-another, in a virtuous cycle.

[@-tom-8720]

I think they've vastly overestimated the growth figures. Plus with inflation, the economy is predicted to contract over the next 5 years in real terms

[@mattbooth307]

That the rich are very angry makes me very happy. It's their turn. I've spent 14 years being pissed off at every Tory budget. Every time they've passed the cost of their failures onto us or every time they've taken an ideological approach to the economy which has just benefitted the rich and hammered the poor (I.E. anyone not rich).

[@stephenholmes1036]

Im a self made farmer , not rich fromma poor working class background and im angry. Ive worked hard all my life and seeing pensioners pension pots robbed, heating allowance taken away, destroying family farms, taxing businesses especially small ones hard. They are raising taxes everywhere afyer saying they wouldn't, lying, Farming minister who represents Croydon in £400 wellies! Labour got in because the Conservatives were awful, not because they we're good. They got only 20% of the country to vote for them. Something they seem to have forgotten. I will never vote Labour again! Marr the marxist hasn't changed

[@clementattlee6984]

If you think Andrew Marr is remotely left-wing then perhaps you'd like to buy some magic beans too? 😂

[@solomonsmith3658]

@@stephenholmes1036 1. How are pension pots being robbed? 2. Why should someone who can afford to heat their home be given money by the taxpayer to heat their home? 3. If they don’t tax businesses, they’d need to tax someone, are you suggesting they should’ve increased income tax? 4. No family farm has been destroyed, they’ll just have to pay more inheritance tax than they did before, but still considerably less than anyone else. Some elites are buying out our farms to use as tax free inheritance for their children, I’d rather them not. 5. Rather than just being angry because the media told you to be, why don’t you sit down and work out exactly what it means for you and your family and if you’re still able to do your food shop and pay your heating bills after the fact then maybe calm down a little

[@stephenholmes1036]

No Richard, I know him do you?

[@jamesbyrne9312]

You clearly dont understand the policies. They only took fuel allowances off pensioners who didn't need it. But hey you believe everything you read in the daily mail if u want

[@stephenholmes1036]

My only papers are Private eye and the FT. If you read despised by Paul Embury why the modern left loathe the working class. You will see yourself described perfectly. Typical middle-class, metropolitan response I'm a daily mail reader ha ha Do you read the Grauniad,

[@jackonorey4846]

Anyone who thinks this budget is anything other than disgusting class war politics is deluded. People paying for private schools are doing the state a massive favour & the increased tax on farmers is also unforgivable. I hope that they bring London to a standstill for a genuinely worthy cause for once. Tax and spend (on union donors).

[@zenbaby3396]

The problem was they tied themselves into a stupid knot. If they had been honest she could have put the tax on employee NI which would have been in line with her growth aims and as the Tory’s had dropped it she could easily have said they are only bringing fiscal responsibility back. This would then enable her to keep the growth of the previous government plus what her expenditure did. Unfortunately the lies have caught up with them and she lacked the courage and intellectual rigour to provide coherent government.

[@Joshua_Dixon]

💯

[@turquoise7817]

even ignoring the stupid knot they definitely did tie themselves into, increasing employer NI is still the better decision. not only is employer NI a bigger portion of the NI paid to the govt, less of it will actually affect the workers. if reeves tried to raise the same amount of tax through employee NI, it really would have affected the workers incredibly poorly, but since it's through *employers*, they have to negotiate with unions and figure out how to keep productivity while also hanging onto workers, in a time of wage stagnation and increasing wealth inequality. therefore, not *all* of the tax burden will be shifted to workers, and some of the rich WILL have to pay a bit extra. is this not a MUCH better decision than just raising employee NI?

[@lutherblissett9070]

Reducing NI and increasing income tax instead would have been better for workers. But they had to make their tax rises stealthy because they couldn't be honest.

[@zenbaby3396]

@@turquoise7817 The problem is that stifles growth so though I follow your idea of a given share as the OBR point out only some 75% of the tax will get through to workers directly, because of the slower economic growth wages and taxes fall over time well beyond the actual tax raised. In fact this is great a factor that the OBR actual believes the benefit of this tax will fall from £25b to closer to £10b over 5 years. The problem with socialism is that concept of the zero sum game that for anyone to gain someone else has to lose this is not how an economy should work if you want to raise people’s living standards.

[@william_marshal]

What lies, try reading the Labour manifesto !!!

[@MrTpain1945]

Thanks Labour , I just got a 15% pay rise , however I am no better off as my employer has cut my working week by 15% ,my employer said no incentive to work harder

[@TheShlongman]

You’ve been given nearly a whole day a week off without losing ANY pay, and you’re complaining?

[@lindacadogan6616]

Capital gains tax only affects richest 14% of farmers. James obrien

[@superted6960]

He's an expert is he? 😂

[@tonyfehler59]

At last economists are beginning to realise countries cannot "Tax and spend" their way to growth: so why don't we do what we did after WWII and "Spend and Tax our way to growth - beginning with the re-acquisition of our national assets?

[@edc1569]

Join a local trading block and growth will come.

[@sunnytimes_]

I think it was a well thought out budget. However, I'm waiting for some additional help for first time buyers... the >300k stamp duty is going to hurt a lot of people from April next year.

[@discostu2]

She’s just made it worse for 1st time buyers

[@acmdv]

We need a Royal Commission with full powers to investigate what the consequences of BREXIT has been to our country.

[@-tom-8720]

Marginal at best

[@DavidSmith-lu7xv]

Well Andrew you spurred Labour on

[@MatthewGilling]

To be fair I spoke to my director yesterday and he thought it was about time they asked for it. He's got his head screwed on and I trust him more than the doom sayers on the right wing press. Just saying.

[@1ForTheShieldz]

😂

[@ghfh2678]

I want to watch this show when we have had the much needed slashing of the state and devastation of the public sector. Gonna be a good watch

[@stephenclipper]

I’m not rich but send my son to private school due to SEN. On a carpenters wage I have needed to borrow a lot of money to supplement the costs. Adding VAT is simply unattainable for our family so our son will now go without and we will have to do what we can at home

[@ausbrum]

But there is something very wrong with the fact that SEN needs your son to go to a private, not public school

[@stephenclipper]

@@ausbrum Tell me about it!!!! No state school provision for my child in my area. I should be getting a rebate not a tax increase!

[@stephenclipper]

@@ausbrum and we’re not alone btw

[@benphilips7235]

An appalling budget from an appalling government. My expectations were not high when they were elected. Those expectations have been met. And we're only four months into this administration. God help us. The worst administration in living memory?

[@robertofranceschini2857]

The damage of Brexit continues to be substantial yet the Chancellor is studiously avoiding mentioning, quantifying and addressing the decline in the national economy directly caused by Brexit.

[@unconventionalideas5683]

She has not _yet_ mentioned it. There is not enough distance to that horribly divisive event.

[@mariusanderson358]

Europe going well ???

[@Steve-s8k]

Yaaaaaaawn. If the Tories had actually implement Brexit, we might be reaping the benefits but as it is and their incompetence, we find ourselves in this position. Not only that, if Brexit was such a bad idea, why are many European countries not doing any better than us.

[@Me0wish]

@@Steve-s8k Can you tell us any of these "benefits"?

[@Steve-s8k]

@@Me0wish Yes, the benefits they promised but never delivered.

[@iainr9907]

I don’t care who’s proposing the budget but can we talk about how it might benefit the country instead of just critiquing so that we appear all critical

[@Cosmoscosmos1]

Labour in power are one hell of a risk I’m afraid. Very few wanted them in power!

[@johnhoulihan4000]

the good news is more wanted Labour in power than the CONservatives.

[@lindawilding5516]

Great things were done during the war in prefabs.

[@shugieshugied2269]

Business will just their prices up. Any business employing five or less staff will see no NI cost increase anyway. Lower wage growth is not the only solution. The brexit elephant is still in the room, that's still restricting growth because the UK can neither access the EU Single Market (despite not having any barriers to imports into the UK from the EU) nor significant amounts of inward investment. I'm not sure why anyone thinks overcoming 14 years of Tory austerity can be achieved for free or swiftly though.

[@-tom-8720]

There was no austerity. Net spending remained flat

[@shugieshugied2269]

@@-tom-8720 Even if net spending was flat, and I'm convinced that it was, in real terms failure to index for inflation means actual cuts to services. If there was no austerity, and my personal experience is that there was a great deal, that would have been against declared Tory policy objectives from 2010. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_government_austerity_programme

[@Its__Good]

People talk with far too much certainty about economics when they are inherently unpredictable.

[@carlcassidy185]

Things weren't magically better after one budget from Brown, so why is that expectation lumped on Reeves? Are we too used to a revolving door in the Treasury?

[@1ForTheShieldz]

Brown! The guy who sold the debt and sent the uk into financial crisis.. erm yeah let's not hold any ex labour chancellor as an example of goodness.

[@user-nx6ji9tk8i]

Green growth is a misnomer. It,s electricity that,s going green. Not power. UK has sold off the steel manufacturing capability necessary to make the infrastructure for green electricity. We have no copper mines. Import solar panels. Rely on imported LNG to keep the lights on & computers running. We still have no solution to Dunkelflaute, other than imports and interconnectors. And all while the population gets increasingly unhealthy, no challenge to the food industry and silence on social care. Let,s hope those critical conversations come next year.

[@jsbarretto]

This... Doesn't seem correct? A lot of modern green tech doesn't need very much steel at all. Modern wind turbines and solar panels have relatively little steel in them, it's all composites nowadays. I do agree that keeping a minimum amount of steel production going, if only to allow us to scale back up in times of international crisis is a good idea, but it's also extremely expensive to keep a low-volume unproductive industry around. We have never had a meaningful copper mining industry, so I'm not really sure what that point is about. In terms of power, the UK is rapidly moving toward energy independence. It's not unusual for renewables to cover 40-50% of demand on some days now, and that's only growing. Storage is still an issue, but it turns out that it's not as much of an issue as we thought because dynamic tariffs encourage changes in consumer behaviour to shave off peak pricing very effectively.

[@user-nx6ji9tk8i]

Thanks for the push back on steel. But my general point was that Uk still replies on imported goods for our infrastructure. Correct we we don,t mine copper. The Cu comment was to emphasis our imported need for metals, particularly for the rebuild of the National Grid, and minerals and rare earths for those batteries. But the misnomer remains calling electricity energy when that is only 20% of our total energy demands. Just look at total UK energy consumption on Our world in Data. Plz don,t confuse the terms power and electricity. ‘In terms of power’ : I think you mean electricity. We,re still way even for electricity independence while we wait for the grid rebuild. Current energy dashboard for nighttime energy usage still relies non renewables particularly in the winter months. But of course we,ll be first to hit those Net Zero electricity targets as we don,t count any of the embodied carbon in all those imports and are blind to it all being driven globally by diesel. We need a better more comprehensive debate. .But I guess it won,t be on a political channel as it,s too fact and information hungry. See Simon Michaux, Mark P Mills and others.

[@markdemariassy8685]

I have to say I was disappointed in the budget overall. I worry about the burden being concentrated so much on employers, as I fear it will hinder wage rises, hinder investment, hinder job creation. I would be interested in someone doing the figures on an alternative budget where the burden was spread a bit more, for example, would increasing income tax and inheritance tax, but increasing the thresholds for both at the same time, have been a way to raise money without potentially hindering growth so much? Yes there will have been grumbles, but raising the thresholds would be a sweetener and in line with the, "those with the broadest shoulders" philosophy and with less squeeze on employers, wage increases and more jobs and investment more likely and that would bring in more tax revenue...

[@Samwell-L]

Private equity was celebrating this budget after the chancellor rowed back on her proposed tax increase on carried interest. They threatened to “take their business elsewhere” which all in all mightn’t be an entirely bad thing seen as most firms seem to flip businesses like used cars

[@n28utd]

George is so blinded by his love of labour 🥱

[@paul9207]

This is the problem with the chattering classes, they’ve never done a days graft.

[@QPRTokyo]

The poor are very angry.

[@stevekilligrew788]

What all of them? 🙄

[@mygoogle1482]

I’m happy for Labour to be in if it kicks others into shape, tories got what they deserved. What I’m not happy with the obvious student politics they constantly display. I’ve no idea how Stamer thinks he’s stimulating growth other than committing billions to the one thing we know can waste money like it’s air - government run projects. Labour just doesn’t get that regulation usually inhibits growth. Their only solution so far is to tax employment significantly. Labour are and will remain in power for the next few years, that’s reality, unlike their plans for growth- which isn’t the same as spending.

[@Jon-hh3gz]

A lot of moaners in chat, I thought it was a good budget overall. Start fixing the state of our crumbling schools, poor councils, lack of social work staff, roads, NHS waiting times. This is what labour does it invests in the public services, there's no surprise there.

[@Marvin-dg8vj]

We are at 100% debt to GDP ratio ..We cannot afford an extra £76 billion a year in tax rises and extra borrowing. The North Sea oil and gas has gone . Growth? After brexit ? Andrew Marr talks about what the public would think in 3-4 years time..They dont have that long

[@IainWatson-t1v]

So its one hell of a risk with no increase in growth. Mmm..

[@jsbarretto]

Remember that the OBR's models are deliberately simplistic and likely don't take into account the long-term effect of planning reform, improved healthcare, etc.

[@IainWatson-t1v]

Simplistic or not, if there were discernible net benefits the OBR would include them. Take one example. Healthcare. Spending more on health only helps growth of it increases labour productivity ie getting 4 million off long term sickness. Absolutely nothing on this, so no growth. Could go on HS2 etc

[@jsbarretto]

@@IainWatson-t1v That's not what the OBR is for, they're not a think tank or a research group. They don't speculate on things like the impact of planning reform. They stick to what they know (even if they might personally suspect other factors will come into play) because they are part of the apparatus of the state and need to be able to provide hard justification for everything they use to calculate their final prediction. Their goal is just as much *reproducibility* just as much as it is *accuracy*.

[@andrewwebb9426]

I can understand the minimum wage increase and help with the NHS is good for poorer people but don’t really understand why this budget is going to encourage growth. It doesn’t encourage British investors to invest in British firms (rather than in houses and offices). It doesn’t tackle inequality and it doesn’t do much to get councils building genuinely affordable housing. Yes, I can see that there’s to be more money flooding into the economy but it doesn’t seem well targeted. She clearly needed more tax revenue but whilst she was addressing National Insurance, surely a Labour project, why didn’t she address the disparity between what ordinary and higher tax payers have to contribute?

[@-tom-8720]

Accept for the fact that rasing the minimum wage causes people on minimum wage to lose jobs, and locks out the poorest from the Jon market

[@andrewwebb9426]

@ I don’t accept that idea because it didn’t prove to occur when minimum wage was first introduced to much Tory squealing. My concerns are more about investing in British enterprises. I believe that if housing were much, much cheaper then ordinary inventive young people would feel freer to take risks. And I think our tax code should be changed to actively encourage this and investments by others in those adventurous young people. Whilst it’s obviously nice that poorly paid workers will be paid more, I don’t see how this will help British startups and established industry very much

[@ausbrum]

British firms? Most of Britain has been sold off and is continuing to do so. You can look at established European companies which have existed for over a century. You can look at countless businesses in Britain which have been targeted by venture capital which buys businesses , cuts corners, and on sells for big gains.

[@andrewwebb9426]

@@ausbrum Yes, unfortunately. But my point is that this budget doesn’t, at least to me, seem to address this urgent problem. Why do others avoid the traps we’ve set? How do we start to change this for the better? I was trying to point out that freeing ordinary people from the crushing burden of absurd housing costs, trying to ease inequality and make subtle changes to tax incentives might go a long way to help. This budget seems like an old-fashioned and unimaginative approach to these modern problems.

[@shayed9930]

Labour has finally done some good for the working man.

[@dazzassti]

Really.. the working man. 🤦 so taking almost half of someone’s pension they have saved for them and their family if they die early is ok for the working man’s family? So suddenly increasing NI and business then cutting employees, halting wage rises, (as I will have to and several of my business owner friends will have to) will not affect workers? Labour have taken a massive risk, they have done EXACTLY what Labour have done in the past, massive borrowing and spending. In each case they had caused massive problems!

[@martywest6004]

Definitely, at least previously the uk had the highest tax rate since the second world war, zero growth, loss of tax revenue, the greatest decline in take home income, the increased disparity of rich and poor in decades and crumbling public services. You knew where you stood back then. This has been the worst 150 days in the history of the universe.

[@martinmurphy9679]

@@dazzassti It's only your greed that will be affecting workers. it's your choice if you want to pass on your NI rise to your workers. As a retired contractor in the building industry, I never once worked for a company owner that admitted to making a profit. You're all the same.

[@mindfulnessman8575]

The same day the budget happened we got an email to say no wage rise or bonus this year.

[@martinmurphy9679]

@@mindfulnessman8575 Any excuse eh?

[@julian.morgan]

I'm pretty convinced that the 'behind the scenes' motivator for Brexit was to make it as difficult as possible at a grass roots level to make comparisons between your average UK citizen's quality of life and public services and those enjoyed in other northern European countries. The only people benefitting from our appalling services are the super rich (who don't use them) and who have a vested interest in creating as much division amongst the rest of us as possible. IMO the stark absence of a wealth tax in the budget clearly indicates they're still pulling far too many strings, though they may well be squirming in months to come with a lot more HMRC inspectors feeling their collars. The idea that we are finally raising taxes to be more inline with comparable European economies so we can spend the next ten years catching up with where they are now, would be laughable - if it weren't so desperately sad.

[@LindaSmith-xo8qb]

Bigger state, bigger benefits bigger pension pots, all while producing nothing!

[@trytellingthetruth.2068]

Debt is all GB is good at producing.

[@TheLukeLambert]

The budget is clearly trying to address that last point, hence the HS2 final extension, GB Energy (though not the investment model i'd prefer) and nationalisation of the rails, i'd say that would stop us being a leaky bucket, quite as much as we are. Dramatic pearl clutching when the state can't even perform basic functions, it's high time people like you shut up and let the country get back to working, rather than dying a slow, austere death.

[@MarcLiron]

Starmer is behaving like a petulant child in not having help from Nigel Farage in getting tariff exemptions from Trump!!!! WHY does our PM not believe in the national interest???? 😡😡😡

[@TroyaE117]

The great socialist cure-all. Tax tax tax and more tax.

[@dunnomate3587]

It works in Denmark

[@TheLukeLambert]

Please tell me, oh bleating billionaire, how bad will this hurt your bottom-line? Socialism is a definite cure when you've had neo-liberal BS absolutely scalping the country for almost half a century. Why does the gov't only have a stake in BP now? Let me know your illuminating and elevated solution to un-screw the country, i'd love to hear it.

[@TroyaE117]

​@@dunnomate3587 you mean Lilliput?

[@dunnomate3587]

@@TroyaE117 the social democratic system works quite well in some of the best places to live in the world, the Nordic countries

[@jsbarretto]

The wealthiest and most productive nations generally have the highest levels of public sector spending. The only exception is the US, which gets the privilege of being the world's reserve currency and the dominant soft-power empire, meaning that the rules work a little different for them.

[@longnewton1]

As usual, the media trot out the usual rubbish about the 'risks associated with higher government debt'. The issue with government debt, as currently structured by issuing bonds to the financial markets, is the high interest rate. This is easily fixed by reducing the interest rate or, better, the government directly funding the deficit through the BoE, creating new money. The limit to government spending is the availability of resources and labour. If these are limited, we may see rising inflation, and this would require either tax rises, actions to free up or identify increased supplies or a slowdown in government spending. If this change is implemented, it will likely disrupt the financial markets. In this case, the government may choose to issue bonds as a safe place for banks to save. The interest rate should be low for this. The real risk to the economy and the thing that causes financial collapse is the very high level of private sector debt. Why isn't this talked about? Neoliberal ideology is the answer to this. They don't want to admit this is a problem.

[@Sam-y5o6j]

It's a wealth redistribution budget: fattening up the boomers at the expense of hard working people, one hand takes from hard working people via fiscal drag, and the triple lock gives to pensioners.

[@seeseeteevee]

Just like in Spain, when faced with overwhelming odds, it will be the British people who need to all up the game, increase productivity, be nice to each other to overcome the woes of Britain, not any self serving politicians, who are all out to line their pockets with unqualified, ill conceived, political rhetoric & decisions. Forget the rubbish politicians on all sides and let’s all get together to do our best!

[@ElmugreTV]

F the rich!

[@jaisriram295]

The ones who pay your DLA 😂

[@ElmugreTV]

@jaisriram295 The ones who dont pay their fair share.

[@nixer65]

@@ElmugreTV what a naive and stupid comment

[@jaisriram295]

@ElmugreTV who is gonna fund your DLA when they all leave ?

[@ElmugreTV]

@@jaisriram295 They wont leave. And I dont recoeve DLA.

[@decoyfox]

They allowed you to work 3 and a half more hours (at minimum wage) if you're a carer, but did nothing about the cliff edge, so 3hrs 31 minutes means DWP still take everything from you, doesn't really fix anything!

[@lesliecarter4295]

It’s a shame that the most incompetent budget has been delivered by the first woman chancellor…! History will not be kind…

[@user-gu1un7pb7k]

Most incompetent budget, really? 14 years of incompetent budgets is what has led the country to where we are today. This is by far the boldest and most proactive budget we've had in a long time, and it's what the country badly needs. I can assure you history will look back on this very kindly

[@finze1]

What are you talking about? The country's on its knees - this budget is looking to fix public infrastructure and reverse decades of austere incompetence. What more do you want?

[@lesliecarter4295]

My comment just triggered the communist members on this channel..?

[@user-gu1un7pb7k]

@@lesliecarter4295 Lol Rachel Reeves is a communist now? Stop bringing USA garbage politics over to the UK please🤡

[@wolfen210959]

@@lesliecarter4295 No, but your comment merely echoed the sentiment of the Tory press, the same Tory press who hailed the Truss budget as the best ever budget, so it was bound to be roundly criticised. If you had expressed your own genuine opinion, instead of merely copying that of the Tory press, you might have achieved a different response.