NFA Trusts Are Basically USELESS : Short Suppressor Wait Times

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

Addendum: Rule 41F was finalized in 2016, so not quite a decade. Edit: Single Shot trusts. I see the utility here of being able to rapidly transfer the trust thats about it.

[@spikymikie]

So I have a very specific question, not really related to the NFA Trust issue, but to suppressor manufacture. If I want to start a business manufacturing suppressors, for resale, what form or forms do I have to file? The ATF website is not real clear on this (Intentionally?). Best I can tell, its a form 7. But its just not that clear. And as you know, getting somebody on the phone at the ATF takes an act of congress (Irony). I know its a form 1 if I was making one for myself. But the doing it as a business part is not clear. Thank you for what you do, BTW.

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

@@spikymikieyes , an ATF form 7 but only after you form an LLC. Once you have both of those things in place you can apply for your SOT.

[@spikymikie]

@@VSO_Gun_Channel Thank You. Ill update you when the LLC is completed. I think you'll like the name.

[@Woodoutdoor]

Single shot trust Does not seem to be bad option, But still need to look into the details on how to add trustees.

[@phillipk1258]

Great video, very helpful! Are suppressor wait times today still consistently/predictably sitting at or around 7-30 days? (Assuming I did everything right on my end)

[@elzippo488]

They're not. NFA Trusts provide a legal framework to protect your property from civil asset forfeitures.

[@Hornet135]

I think you’re talking about times when you should have used the silencer.

[@Mr_Contract________x]

No he's spot on.

[@elzippo488]

@@Mr_Contract________x No. He blows his theory and Title of Video out of the water at 9:24 LOL! "If you've got a single $500 can or a couple $500 cans, or a few $1000 can, who the heck cares"??? "It's not really that important" ??? REALY? You do you OK? I will always use a Trust.

[@billdberger7407]

Nonsense, police do CAF on lawful business in good standing all the time. Some of these companies have staff attorneys and they still do it them with impunity. They will charge your property with a crime in a civil proceeding and you WILL have to pay to get it back. Think for a second about who you're dealing with here, a piece of paper and an etching will not stop these people. The whole damn concept of civil asset forfeiture needs to be criminalized.

[@wiryone1]

It’s more a question of the value of what your protecting. Do you really need to go belt and suspenders on a 500-1000 product that is replaceable? A 25K machine gun on the other hand…. Yeah.

[@Sman7290]

The NFA Trust allows my wife and son to use my NFA items without me there. It allows my wife and son to keep a silencer on their bedside pistols,and I don't have to keep them locked in a Vault when I leave the house.

[@wbryan03]

As someone who files under a trust, I absolutely agree with you. The only benefit for me is having my wife and kids being able to use my items, other than that it’s over rated. Good luck with you audit and fuck the ATF.

[@newbievonnewberson7390]

So...useless except for the reason most people use them. Got it.

[@geodkyt]

​@@newbievonnewberson7390There was a fairly sizeable jump in the number of NFA trust transfers starting about 20 years ago, once the internet made it common knowledge that an NFA trust bypassed the (unstatutory, unconstitutional, and now defunct) CLEO signature requirement, allowing people to use the trust process to get around an anti-NFA local CLEO. The explosion in trust filings are *why* ATF first dropped the CLEO signature requirement, and then issued the rule that every trustee has to submit paperwork for every new trust acquisition. With those two changes to the regulations ATF issued, the use of a trust to "make transfers easier" don't make sense anymore. But that doesn't change the fact that a whole butt-ton of folks got trusts *solely* to bypass recalcitrant CLEOs who wouldn't sign off for *any* transfers that wasn't one of their friends.

[@ericwagstaff2227]

@@newbievonnewberson7390 Their useful as any "Trust" would be, asset segregation to protect them and granting access to members of the trust. But NFA trusts, before 2016 were a workaround to the LEO sign off issue when filing as individual. After 2016, that became a non-issue and the ATF made adding items to NFA trust more complicated so that ended the workaround. I would say the vast major of people who have SBRs and cans aren't worth the time in setting up a trust. Lastly, some of these $100 one size fit all NFA trust sold online may not be completely legal in your state if it comes under scrutiny, since trusts have to conform to your state laws. So to make sure it's done right you should seek a trust lawyer in your state which is going to cost you way more then $100.

[@Pills161]

@@newbievonnewberson7390 was thinking the same thing, you have to register either way so why not take the path that gives the most flexibility? A spouse may technically have shared "ownership" of an Nfa item but ownership does not equal usage, you CANNOT borrow your spouse's suppressor if it's under their name only as an individual and they aren't with you to shoot with it.

[@16ft2in]

The trust is NOT about delivery time. They're about ownership and use. Item to trust, add members as necessary

[@OldSolidSnake]

I have items I filed individually, and anyone that uses them, is ok as long as I'm physically there with them..

[@OldSolidSnake]

@First_name_youtube_doesnt_like they are locked in a safe and na, they can't shoot a suppressor lol. If they need a gun, my wife has access to one...

[@OldSolidSnake]

@First_name_youtube_doesnt_like true. However, in an emergency, I'll be the one to do it, and they're half gone anyway lol

[@nightraver56]

@@OldSolidSnake and thats the point of an NFA trust, I can lend it to anyone, long term, as long as I add them to the trust. Silencer Shop is unlimited single-shot trusts $100, I have the option to sell to anyone who does the fingerprints within days, no extra $200 to pay

[@OldSolidSnake]

@@nightraver56 nice

[@chadthomas9678]

In my opinion the greatest benefit of the NFA trust is to allow family members as trustees to legally possess the NFA items absence of a single owner.

[@modmojo6629]

The only reason I went the "trust" route, was for my sons to take them to the range without me. There is no other benefit. My last 2 cans took 370 days to get approved - currently at 271 on my latest, fastest was 280 days. I find this unacceptable.

[@LRRPFco52]

The existence of the ATF is unacceptable...a pungent stench to the US.

[@woodrowcall3158]

I find the tax itself unacceptable.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@woodrowcall3158 Can you see my comment? I know I left one about the ATF.

[@mattjackson6602]

It’s crazy right now. I got one back in 3 days last month… I have another one I bought in November that I’m still waiting on. 😂 make it make sense!!!!

[@coopja3330]

Mines took 2 years

[@MZ-nw7wz]

To my knowledge, trusts are still greatly beneficial for allowing other authorized parties legal use of of assets without the main owner having to be present, also automatic transfer of assets if the main owner is killed, or declared unfit to own the assets so they don't go forfeit. There are still good reasons to get a trust, back in the day it was a way around a LEO signature, but 41F killed that.

[@joeyholler3678]

@@MZ-nw7wz that was my main reason for setting up my trust. Now it’s just makes transfer of items simple when I take the room temperature challenge

[@stevep7346]

The problem with the "your wife owns your stuff" argument is that ownership is not always the same as posession. I expect with NFA stuff the zero-tolerance ATF will shoot your community property dog on their way to trash your community property house to serve a warrant they haven't gotten with bodycams they aren't wearing while walking over a constitution that they don't abide, much less defend.

[@tpfrk8977]

The laws changed back in 2016.. Prior to that, purchasing with a trust allowed you to circumvent having to get fingerprints as well as a signature from your local chief law enforcement officer.. Prior that, it was hugely advantageous to use a trust

[@SuperUncleRyan]

I went with a trust because when I started the whole NFA thing, that was basically the only way to do it. That being said, today I bought a suppressor and switched to individual. I am currently waiting on the last suppressor I purchased through my trust, so I will probably get the approval for the latest one before the previous one. Our government makes no sense. I hate the hoops we have to jump through for rights that are not supposed to be infringed upon.

[@mattcomchoc2957]

Clickbait title. First ever downvote for your channel. The comments section and your video are both full of reasons to do a trust. If you prioritize a short wait over the other benefits, go individual, but calling them useless is dumb, and not caring about what happens to your estate when you die is also dumb. I highly suspect, though, that the ATF is intentionally doing individual forms quicker to incentivize people away from trusts. If accurate, that is basically an admission that it's easier for them to do ATF type stuff to you and your dog when you go individual.

[@gerthddyn]

I love that he specifically states that his wife is covered by his individual NFA Tax Stamps. Every bit of legal advice I've ever seen says it is absolutely not, even directly from the BATFE (though they change their minds on what rules do every other week, so who knows when that will change). I'm guessing he wants the ATF to break down the door and send her to prison if something happens to him.

[@acridefensellc6304]

Facts

[@acridefensellc6304]

You think your spouse is good to go without executing transfers on your machineguns and suppressors when you die? Lmao. Aaaaaaand, you can add and remove trustees at will when your trust is done correctly. That means your bs about doing paperwork on 150 people whenever you transfer something into your trust is total garbage. Do better. Lmmfao. You need to consult an attorney, bud, smfh. (Or lay off the crack).

[@DomoArigatoRobot0]

Thank you, VSO GC, for clueing me in with that earlier video on having an NFA trust or going solo. Saved some money, and A LOT! of wait time, yay! #RepealTheNFA #RepealTheGCA #NationalCarry

[@dobrzpe]

a trust is ABSOLUTLY viable. while you may think it's useless - it is 100% the ONLY way i'll *EVER* file. honestly, there is NO reason to not go with a trust...

[@ericwagstaff2227]

For most people it really doesn't make sense anymore since a NFA trust is not a workaround like it was in the past. If your answer is you have other people who want access to those items fine that's a use case, but every time you add something to the trust every person in your trust has to fill out paper work and submit finger print cards that makes your package more complicated and takes way longer to approve. Lastly, unless you have "asset" level items like machine guns worth thousands or tens of thousands you need to protected from any civil actions. No one is coming after your SRB or cans that in a lawsuit there's no big money for those items.

[@uncleandy7983]

@@ericwagstaff2227 That's not true at all. You can add a person to your trust by filling out a form and getting it notarized. There's no reason to muddy the waters by putting them on the trust when you make the original filing.

[@wesleyroberts7119]

I have to repecfully disagree with you. Even In this video you seem to contradict yourself. You go through all the reasons why filing as and individual is bassically the same as a trust, form 5 upon death for example. Ok fair enough, but then you go into the flexibility of a trust and how it can do things filing as an individual can't. Isn't that flexibility enough to say trusts are worth it? I went with a trust and have no regrets. Estate planning is easier. You said you don't care what happens when your dead, fair enough, but I actually do care about helping my kids and making that crazy time a little more steamlined. My wife can use my guns, which I've got to be blatently honest, I don't believe you when you said your spouses could be in possession without you around if filed as an individual in your name. Your the only person I've ever heard say that. And I certainly haven't seen official ATF documentation saying that. I don't know maybe it's out there. I would rather not risk it if she actually had to use it in self defense. My kids can also use my NFA items. There are only two upsides with filing as an individual. You don't have to set up a trust (which is really easy) and the CURRENT short wait times. Wait times are fickle. They go up and down all the time. Who says wait times wont drop for trusts soon? Which by the way they have been dropping. Or that individual wait times wont increase? There is no garentee when it comes to the ATF especially with the wait times.

[@calebshipley4448]

There is actually a documented case of a wife getting in her husband's truck with a suppressor in it that she didn't know was in there. She get in a wreck a few miles from home. In the process of cleaning the truck out before it got towed, the rifle with the suppressor on it was seen by police. Took tens of thousands of dollars, but I THINK they finally beat the charges. It isn't worth it. If you have a spouse, get a trust.

[@roflchopter11]

Somehow I don't trust the local pigs or the fedbois to lock my hypothetical wife in a cage while I spend $100,000 on a legal defense arguing that her marital property rights allowed her to possess not just own an NFA item.

[@geodkyt]

I'll note that, back when the ATF had a *useful* NFA FAQ online, it *specifically and explicitly* stated that NFA regsitrations *did not* fall under "marital property" rules with regard to unsupervised possession - nor could you file a "non-trust" registration as a couple. The only two options were individual registration or corporate registrations. I have *not* seen ATF promulgate any rules that say that an individual regisyration by one spouse automatically confers a safe harbor for the other spouse to possess the registered item without the actual registrant being physically present. *Note:* this is entirely different from the inheritance transfer situation, where the rules have always been that lawful ownership and (provided the heir wasn't legally prohibited from possession) possession automatically transferred by law, with the Form 5 following up to update the registration to the heir.

[@fairlylocal607]

Plus there have been several high profile examples of spouses using NFA items in self defense situations and then found themselves charged with a crime after the fact. May or may not get the charges dropped at a later time, but the process is the punishment.

[@Jeeper906]

Since atf rule 41f two of the main benefits of using a trust were removed. Those benefits are no cleo signature and no fingerprints/photograph. You no longer need a cleo signature if you buy individually, and everyone on the trust has to submit fingerprints/photograph and fill out form 4473. However, nfa trusts do still have a purpose. The main reason to use a nfa trust for a suppressor is if you want your family members to be able to use your suppressor legally without you by their side. If you buy individually, it is a felony to lend your suppressor to anyone without you present and under your supervision. So moral of the story is before rule 41f buying a suppressor with a nfa trust was a good idea. Now it just adds a lot more paperwork, money, and time to approve to your purchase. The main reason to use one is if you have family members or friends that will use your suppressor without you.

[@herbderbler1585]

A trust seems like a great way to avoid bureaucratic complications when the day inevitably comes that the owner of an NFA item shuffles off the mortal coil. I'm sure the government would just love any excuse to seize that gun if every T isn't crossed in the inheritance transfer.

[@MrKingArthurhk]

The only reason I care about an NFA Trust is so my wife can have complete access, have them legally when I die to divest or pass to my adult children. If not for that, I could give a flying F.

[@donperrignon]

This is basically it for me

[@GP-23]

At this point the only reason I'd consider setting up a trust for my family is for the purposes of being able to exchange suppressors amongst ourselves without $200 a pop to do so. "Hey dad I'm going hunting, can i borrow hour Hybrid46M to put on my rifle while I'm up in the mountains" "Hey brother I'm going out to the range for a plinking trip, can i swing by and borrow your .22 can for that trip" Stuff that we reasonably should be able to do anyways without having to pay the government a tax or going to prison. To me the ease of inheritance ontop of that is a nice extra, not strictly necessary in most cases, but makes things easier. To me if the wait times came back to being comparable (like some people are saying) it'd be worth the extra couple hundred bucks from my local law firm to have the trust for loaning them to family members, but at the current weight time, it is hard to justify.

[@kevinarndt2011]

I view it largely as a means of protecting your NFA items in an age where most states have put red flag laws and the like in place

[@HotLeadretired]

I have to disagree with you. I’ve had a family gun trust for 10 years. I agree those one shot gun trust are basically worthless. The three reason I got a gun trust is for my son, he is a beneficiary and co trustee. So no form 5 for him when I die. Also if I add a new person to the trust the new person doesn’t have to any ATF background check, paperwork, finger prints, or photos for existing NFA items in the trust. The new person only has to do the paperwork if a new NFA item is added to the trust after the new person is added. Plus my son will be able to add people to the trust after I’m gone and build it for his family. Another reason, all my co-trustees can use all the weapons in my trust without me being with them. My trust will evolve and grow for many generations to come.

[@no_handle_required]

The whole ATF is useless. It follows that everything they do is useless.

[@narr0wm1nd49]

What about living in a state that decides to ban NFA items. Almost all bans come with a grandfathering clause to avoid a 'takings' and the state needing to buy all the items they are banning. If you die the items remain in the trust and the people already in the trust get that grandfathering. And depending on how they write the ban it may be still possible to add people to the trust thus continuing to work around the ban in the future.

[@ethan5.56]

Currently waiting for ATF approval on my first can. I went with a single shot trust through a silencershop kiosk at one of my local FFL. It was easy but probably just file individual next time for a more speedy process. Great video

[@unapologetic7900]

Trusts allow more than one person to legally have "control" of the item. I have a trust that also includes my Wife, so she can possess/control/use a covered item without me being present. I can add others to the trust later if I want. I could add my Brother or even a friend, and they all can have legal access. Otherwise, as an individual, only you can have possession/control.

[@rexfolkerts6728]

So silencer central doesn’t charge any fees for a trust

[@CactusLegzz]

What if one is declared insane, red flagged, or becomes a felon

[@josephcoffman2441]

This is really good information. Thank you. You are definitely profoundly into the word profoundly.

[@tomforeman4976]

Yep silencer shop and all other keys providers found a under the table cash flow for quick response.

[@dpaelliott]

Dude that is the steepest set of stair I have ever seen.

[@Keep_It_Loaded]

@@dpaelliott lol

[@jjgriffin3275]

What no one talks about is - what if you only do a single shot trust for yourself and you become room temp and the item is no where to be found then what?

[@roflchopter11]

Well if they can't find the item, it's going to be a problem regardless. But you can leave your ownership of a trust to someone.

[@signifyingcracker3944]

@@jjgriffin3275 The cop who finds it gets a free can

[@woodrowcall3158]

My wife and I both use our suppressors and SBRs. I’m not always where she is, she isn’t always where I am, and both of us have need to possess our NFA items throughout the year in different geographic regions.

[@Mgarcia3160]

Thanks for info. Your video cleared a lot of the questions I had about trusts. Again, thanks

[@BowWowPewPewCQ]

Trusts do not need to be NFA exclusive. I have a Firearm trust that keeps both NFA and non-NFA items out of Probate Court. Similar to how my other trusts keep real property out of Probate. Have you added up the value of all your firearms? Probate is a lengthy PITA. Then there is the issue of being confiscated by a red flag event. If the items are technically owned by a trust then a trustee could get them back. Possession is a horse of a different color, but at least they wouldn't get "lost".

[@AntiFederalist58]

I just began the process for my first can a week ago as an individual. I'm still waiting for permission from the Crown.

[@moorees335]

A trust for me is an assurance for the low chance of home defense and use of force that a specified SBR and Suppressor be used when I'm not home - that setup must be cleanly sacrificial and above board for my wife. I don't believe marital property is enough...and I'm not willing to gamble on the whims of a DA and police, something that should and can be prepared at this level.

[@jeebugorn]

ive not seen anything that says NFA items fall into martial property rights. can you provide a link to documentation/case law/anything, that will support that? not trying to say that you are wrong, but more so that i want to have something that i can cite in the future.

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

Why is this different from any other type of property?

[@jeebugorn]

@@VSO_Gun_Channel because NFA items are federally regulated items and not typical property. if they were typical property, Form 5 wouldnt need to exist. if a husband died, and he had an NFA item not in a trust, the possession of the item would just pass to the wife.

[@Youknowwh0iam]

@@VSO_Gun_Channellol you don’t sound smart asking that question 😂

[@NicholasA231]

​@@VSO_Gun_ChannelIt isn't. But the AFT is constantly caging people and fighting them in court to push their own ridiculous interpretations of things that they aren't even consistent about internally, just to screw with them. Why would any of this garbage be a thing? We're discussing "crimes" that no legitimate government could possibly declare as such. The only answer is to eliminate the whole thing. Time to fund the war-chests and have some people get standing. Theoretically: Force them to defend criminalizing a spouse for using their community property. I get people who can't handle buying that ticket - I certainly don't want to, and I can't even say for sure right now what I'll do when I get a can - but the odds that your number gets pulled to be the test-case is small, and at some point we're all going to have to man up and get rid of the infringements. I'm terrified of our government at this point, but compliance with byzantine tyranny out of fear isn't sustainable either. Rock, meet hard place.

[@alanrandall3024]

Some good points. I went with one for a couple reasons. One my now adult children do like to use them and second due to an unfortunate health issue I will probably become disabled in a few years (hopefully no nursing home though).

[@mve9924]

If you have XS sights, you need more guns.

[@BlueMarten]

- What you did there, I see it. 😂

[@Morinehtur]

Nice 👍

[@msquared9605]

The way I see it with such short wait times filing individual ( such as me last month with a 1 day approval ) it’s like paying $200 to not have to wait for a year. As in, later down the road you can place the suppressor into a trust for $200

[@bmeksyk]

If I get a suppressor I'll get a trust, thatbway if I'm not home and my wife or kids have to use a home defense weapon equipped with a suppressor they can't use that against them

[@larrygardner726]

I bought 2 suppressors from silencer central on a free trust. I'm the only one on the trust. I did it because it was easy. When I buy my next one should I use the trust or go a different way.

[@LarryGanz]

RE: XS Sights - why don't they pre-drill the roll-pin hole in the J-Frame big dot and standard dot sights? Now I have to find a gunsmith.

[@whalerlife53]

So if trust are still taking a year for approvals, buy as an individual then transfer to your trust later. Yea I know you are paying twice but if you want it now so you can use it and you are having to wait a year like I just did, there is also a cost of waiting too. The other question is how long is the wait for the second purchase under a trust if nothing changes on the trust? Is it another almost year wait? Or does the approval happen at the speed of an individual purchaser for an additional purchase?

[@no_handle_required]

Silencer Central has decent prices, and most of all, the process is crazy easy and the trust is free. So....easy decision.

[@eddieb9110]

I was hoping you would discuss possession without a trust as far as having one in a home with people that are NOT your wife. Family members, roommates, girlfriends, etc. How does THAT work? If you leave the house, are your roommates breaking the law now!? That's what most people want to know.

[@franks6467]

I think this might be the best marketing video for single shot trust that I have ever seen. yes I saw your pinned comment before posting this

[@gregz4249]

This was explained to me exactly like this by my ffl , so I bought my last hush can as individual And took it home in 6- days

[@dbmail545]

Shame SBR's are not being similarly expedited

[@roflchopter11]

It's my understanding. They are if they are on Form 4s

[@kc8omg]

Form 1 SBR's have been processing in the 1-3 week time range for well over a year at this point, long before the recent Form 4 filing time improvement.

[@dennisl4000]

The ATF approval and tax for suppressors needs to repealed. Not only are they, in my opinion, unconstitutional but greatly extend the wait time in obtaining them. I setup a NFA trust several years ago for my immediate family for the purpose of obtaining a suppressor. The suppressor was approved. Now 9 months ago I applied to have another suppressor added to this trust and it is in the “delayed” status because of one of my family members. There is absolutely nothing that has changed in the trustee’s status that warrants this. The whole purpose of establishing a trust is that I am up in years and want to make the transfer of these items as simple as possible.

[@dasboot9471]

Wait times are randomly picked out as short for a few lucky people, it is still not the norm. I have two suppressors already and the other two I just got in filed as individual are going on two months now. Total bs

[@Keifsanderson]

What's the deal with those stairs behind you? You're gonna break your neck. You should set up an NFA trust.

[@s0bedrag0n]

Got my individual tax stamp approved in 48 hours.

[@joelatkinson2080]

Thanks for all of the great information! Another great video!!!

[@TheHanz117]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[@quickcanary]

Lmao, 150 people on a trust. Ol' kurtis is gonna have his hands full.

[@Jesse-xp4lf]

If it’s on a home defense gun, which to me makes sense if your spouse has to fire the weapon inside. Then in that case a trust is absolutely necessary. Correct?

[@bthemedia]

12:35 🙄 “adding a new asset to the trust paperwork” - not true, especially with single shot unlimited. Separate trust for each item adds complexity, but initially only yourself so may be some delay but still goes through. Can add/remove additional trustees later.

[@gusatl2068]

Having my significant other carry around any of my NFA items without me being present has great value. She usually goes out with her guest and shoes without me around. Try that without a trust.

[@busboy262]

You're not wrong about the limited utility of the trust. I have one that I no longer use, but I'm glad that I got it when I did. When I formed my trust, my sons were in their very early twenties and we all shared our common interest of shooting. They were young and broke. The trust allowed me to buy the items, but my sons could still take them to the range and use them without me as theyvwere trustees. They're older now. When Covid hit, one son wanted to buy a can and place it on the trust. Itvwas clear that they could buy their own stuff now. That fact along with updating prints and pics during covid was a pain in the ass, I deducted that the reason to continue to use our trust had expired. So in my very narrow set of circumstances, I think that my reasoning still holds. I wouldn't blame anyone to do the same today if a trust could accomish it for them.

[@HockeyDad6631]

So if I do a personal purchase (no trust), can my children take it on a hunt if I'm not there? Or how about a close friend? Real question, not trolling. My understanding is if someone wanted to borrow my can, I can add them to the trust and they are legal to use it without me being present. Even if I later remove them after hunting season. Is that a misunderstanding?

[@J_D_Rambro]

Unless you are a loner, have no friends or family ....get a trust, less headaches in the long run.

[@Spushed]

So if you don't have a trust, what happens to the item when you die? Does the ATF actually go around door-to-door collecting all of these NFA items each and every single time someone dies?

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

Didn’t watch the video

[@Spushed]

@@VSO_Gun_Channel didn't explain thoroughly

[@kermitlovesbacon1926]

Silencer are one part but wondering if in a state that banded AR ect as “AW” making them none transferable a trust lets the name members inherit said items. Someday hopefully this will no longer be a issue.

[@charlesbronson1776]

I have the Silencer Shop trust for other people to use without me being there. Recently I filled out a paper, Individual Form 4 and was wondering what the wait time is? That 3 letter agency says on their website that it’s going to take 288 days but they were real quick to take out their $200 fee (couple days after the form was sent). Has anyone actually filled out the paper form 4 and got it approved as quick as the eForm?

[@ETHRON1]

Curt...can you do a video on who can use the can, beside yourself, via a trust and single ownership, like at the range or on private property owned by the can owner...

[@brandongodwin2034]

This is a clickbait title. I guess you can argue that they are useless if you live by yourself and never shoot with anyone else. Otherwise the vast majority of us need the stupid trust. I specifically put my home defense suppressors into trusts in case my wife ever had to use it.

[@mr.mr.3301]

I’d love a video on how cans in Europe are different. Sound, cost, weight etc

[@markRTFGuns]

On the family members taking possession of nfa items after my death with a forum 5. Do they pay a $200 dollar tax per item ? Thank you sir. Mark

[@vendoredu]

So what happens to my family members in the untimely event of my demise? Who can "possess" my items if they are not listed in a trust?

[@daleb1225]

We use a trust and have multiple NFA items. All trustees are myself, spouse and 4 children and typically when we go shooting it is a family event. I thought one of the benefits was the 200.00 dollar transfer fee. Are you saying they do not have to pay a transfer fee if I had the NFA item only in my name? Because of the quick approval times I am thinking about not using the trust for my next purchase. I am hesitant to do that because it adds another layer of complexity to the items we own and passing instruction to our children for when I am gone. Some NFA items in a trust and others not. Thank you for the video.

[@beesknees6970]

I am going to buy as an individual, then transfer to the trust once I have it. Sounds like you get it alot faster as an individual instead of a trust. So at least you'll have it while waiting to transfer it into the trust.

[@noexcuses6727]

Very good information and profoundly well presented The use of the word Profoundly so much could be replaced with something like; Really Thanks for the profoundly valuable information ! :) :) :)

[@WearilyCorrect]

Trust or bust if you have a spouse/family.

[@BlueMarten]

- So, absent a trust, a spouse would also own the item. Do the children "own" the item, or are they considered minors incapable of legally owning (such) property? I may have just answered my own question.

[@calebshipley4448]

The spouse may "own" the item, but if they get caught with it in the car when they didn't know it was in there (which has happened), have fun explaining that.

[@stevep7346]

Yeah, I wouldn't take that advice, at all. Ownership isn't the same as posession in any case.

[@goodcitizen64]

Wait until one of the people on your trust decides not to let the item go or be used by anyone else! Thanks ex-brother in law! Lol

[@trevorking2131]

Really the only good cases I’ve seen were 1. My friends dads trust so his sons could travel to events w/o him present 2. A company I worked for that had a few cans for the company shooting league. 3. High dollar collections

[@omgn88]

Single shot trust allows you to add people w/o finger prints and submission to the ATF, just need to get the tax stamp yourself and the rest of that is between you, your people, and a notary.

[@Tcgunner]

Your almost 100% correct, you don't need to submit paperwork for each trustee, you simply get the trust notarized and give them a copy. You're speaking of a traditional trust ot one from these two companies listed. Great video though.

[@johna6442]

What do you think of the one shot trust from silencer shop.

[@cwathan1]

This is a debate that isn't really necessary. This video was more about calling this commenter out than it was about being beneficial to the community. Here's a suggestion for everyone. Since wait times for individuals is currently so short, purchase and file individually. Acquire as many items as you desire. When you reach a point where you want others to be able to utilize the items without your presence then transfer all items to a NFA trust with those individuals as trustees. Rinse and repeat as deemed appropriate by YOU, the individual with factors generally unique to YOU. This minimizes the hassle of adding items to trusts. If you never intend to let an individual use one of your items without you being present then your need for a trust is minimal, if it even exists.

[@JC-kt4hx]

What are you thoughts on Single shot unlimited gun trust from silencer shop?

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

See the title

[@ThisHandleIsTaken1]

When all the fast can turnaround times started, I bought 7 cans, all processed as individual. Longest took 3 days, shortest 1 day 14 hours. I spent around $4000. Not chump change, but also not a crazy amount of money when you are talking about a wear item that I should be able to enjoy hopefully for the next 20-30 years. When i die, I had better have set my wife up far better than a couple of measly cans that at that point are probably worth maybe half that if i am lucky. I agree, it just isnt worth it. . .

[@JeffreyWilstone]

Never file with trust individual is the way to go! IMO

[@Joeatsaco69]

Not true on a one shot trust. The trust is on the one can. It is based on an individual can.

[@jayfig78]

If you have kids and you die, can the children fill out an atf tax exemption transfer like the spouse can?

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

Yes as long as they are adults

[@jayfig78]

Awesome thank you!

[@PopBubbleWrappable]

Trusts may be useless for form 4 items but not for form 1 items. There was no way in hell I was going to have my $5K SBR defaced with an engraving of my individual name on it.

[@MrKingArthurhk]

How about SBR’s?

[@tomforeman4976]

Yea let's leave it to a judge to decide what to do with your entire gun collection. What you need to do is get a divorce and see what the judge really does. You suck when it comes to reality not the print on paper that is not worth hanging in your bathroom.

[@willtillett8784]

Has anyone mentioned avoiding probate?

[@calebdoner]

The only reason i have NFA silencer trusts is so my wife can be on there and be in possession while I'm away from home.

[@JohnJones-ff4nu]

You gun tubers need to stop telling lies about wait times for suppressors. Those that think you need to add fingerprints for a trust for a suppressor you are misinformed. You just add the name to your trust once it’s approved. Not background check, no fingerprints.

[@MrKingArthurhk]

How about creating a trust after the fact? You get your SBR’s silencers, etc. And say, you want to now include your wife?

[@Persuasian338]

I'm wondering the same

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

That’s a transfer tax

[@DUNCEATRON5000]

You have to transfer the items to the trust at a cost of 200

[@Heikin-Ashi-Larry]

@@DUNCEATRON5000 is that per item?

[@roflchopter11]

​@@Heikin-Ashi-LarryYes, per item. Thats why they wouldn't do brace transfers to trusts unless the pistol was on the trust when the edict was published.

[@toytowninc680]

Good info. I would love to see some info on non NFA “regular gun” trusts. The majority of info out there is just NFA trusts - borderline misleading as you know.

[@1985youngdre]

It's not a NFA trust, it's simply a gun trust. You can add all weapons to the Trust. It also helps to have a weapon assigned to your trust incase you later decide to form 1 said weapon.

[@jtlegionnaire6310]

So if one has a can on an individual trust, and gets married, should they do anything?

[@mark-ek9lp]

Perhaps you should title the vid "NFA trusts are useless if you have no spouse/significant other and are childless" And yes, "one shot" type trusts are not for your benefit, only the company selling you a suppressor. Given your level of expertise I'm surprised you dont mention the 24 month letter of exception and if/how that affects wait time. Eck-setera, eck-setera.

[@bigwooly8014]

A trust was nessisary for me cause the sheriff at the time wouldn't sign off on a suppressor. With a trust, I could bypass said signature.

[@VSO_Gun_Channel]

CLEO sign off is no longer a thing.

[@bigwooly8014]

@@VSO_Gun_Channel that's the best news I've heard all year. Haha. Thanks for putting a smile on my face.

[@beesknees6970]

@@VSO_Gun_Channel I thought that it's still a thing if you buy as an individual, but it's only as a trust they just get notified, they don't sign off. At least in a red state like Texas. Has something changed in the past 4 years?

[@kc8omg]

@bigwooly8014 @@beesknees6970 ATF Final Rule 41F became effective on July 13, 2016, that removed the CLEO signature requirement for individual and *added* the background check requirement for trustees: www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/final-rule-41f-background-checks-responsible-persons-effective-july-13

[@billstevens5277]

I want a trust because I don't want an sbr around with my name engraved on it.

[@Alfs_Armory]

I just bought a thing from Griffin. It took a week and a half to get everything set up through Capitol, finished and submitted Form 4 Tuesday evening, got approval this morning, barely over a business day later. I did not use a trust and glad I didn’t.