Nietzsche’s Eternal Return - The TOUGHEST CHALLENGE of Philosophy

[@Necromancyr]

Antinatalist's nightmare fuel

[@truthprevails8836]

How? I don't get it.

[@stanouincustody]

I don't know for sure but I think antinatalists believes life is misery and suffering to the point they wish they were never born, and in this scenario they will be born and live forever @@truthprevails8836

[@m1ar1vin]

They hate having been born so the thought of living for ever, ever again, is a nightmare.

[@WarrenAndrew-gi2wr]

The wording had me cackling

[@apricus3155]

So this is Nietzsche's answer to the disciple of the opponent of Heraclitus: Parmindes, i.e Zeno. "That which is in locomotion must arrive at the half-way stage before it arrives at the goal." Suppose Atalanta wishes to walk to the end of a path. Before she can get there, she must get halfway there. Before she can get halfway there, she must get a quarter of the way there. Before traveling a quarter, she must travel one-eighth; before an eighth, one-sixteenth; and so on.( Wiki) "It has never begun to become and has never ceased from passing away" So there is neither beginning to the path nor end to the path

[@kaweah]

So much of Nietzsche seems to be a response to his "great teacher": (1) "But perhaps at the end of his life, no man, if he be sincere and at the same time in possession of his faculties, will ever wish to go through it again." (2) "If we knocked on the graves and asked the dead whether they would like to rise again, they would shake their heads." (Arthur Schopenhauer, The World as Will and Representation, Vol. I)

[@rogurishimaru]

I hope eternal return is the real deal, because I want to listen to this again and again and again. Thank you, man! This podcast is pure gold

[@winniethuo9736]

😂❤😂 that's how I understood it but I don't remember whether it implied that one can anticipate the glorious moments such as for you, this podcast or one would start with fighting to come thru the valley of death, the birth canal or just before and; oh, that bully in class 4 with their brown teeth happily I would skip😂😂. It's a nightmare all these guess work.

[@andrewsmith3257]

Eh.. hopefully in the next life I'll make better decisions

[@yoyodynepropulsion6484]

I can't express how much I'm enjoying this series, my dude! Keep up the great work! I'm anxiously awaiting the next episode.

[@RoyalistKev]

O n ok kk nj

[@RoyalistKev]

M wants

[@m1ar1vin]

Why not await it in joy instead?

[@haroldtheescapist2865]

This is the best episode thus far, thanks for all you've done

[@gingerbreadzak]

00:00 🤔 Understanding Nietzsche's philosophy requires a grounding in metaphysics, morality, truth, and the totality of his philosophy. 00:55 🎨 Nietzsche's religion is artistic and departs from traditional theologians and atheists by constructing a new religious superstructure. 02:25 📜 Nietzsche's work can be considered within the domain of the philosophy of religion, despite his attacks on conventional morality and religion. 03:46 ⚖ Nietzsche engages with meta-ethical questions about human values, moral axioms, and the revaluation of all values. 05:43 🕊 Nietzsche criticizes religion and challenges metaphysical beliefs, finding naturalistic explanations for religious notions. 07:44 ♾ Nietzsche introduces the concept of Eternal Return, where one's life repeats endlessly with every detail, emphasizing the value of one's current life. 09:44 🔁 Eternal Return challenges individuals to consider whether they would want to relive their lives infinitely and how they can make their lives worthy of repetition. 12:08 🥊 The concept of Eternal Return is the toughest challenge for individuals to confront, as it forces them to fully embrace and love their lives. 16:53 🔥 Embracing Eternal Return means accepting that your life will be lived again exactly as it is, leading to a profound personal challenge. 19:44 🔄 Eternal Return offers redemption to the world by challenging individuals to truly love their lives, even in the face of repeated existence. 21:32 🌍 The concept of eternal recurrence can be found in various myths and religions throughout history, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Pythagoreanism. 23:53 🔄 Nietzsche disagreed with the Pythagorean view of recurrence within known history but recognized its variation on the idea. 25:49 🙌 Nietzsche's idea of the eternal recurrence is not entirely novel; he draws from multiple myths, religions, and writers to form his doctrine. 26:22 💪 Nietzsche aims to create a doctrine that strengthens the strong, paralyzes the weak, and fosters a new understanding of culture's role in shaping generations. 30:23 🤔 Nietzsche's concept of religion is different from traditional spirituality, as he seeks to bind people to the natural world and life rather than separate them from it. 34:29 🌎 Nietzsche's philosophy and religion are worldly, emphasizing the celebration of life and the world, not a detachment from it. 38:25 🤯 Nietzsche challenges the common scientific assumptions about the origin of the universe and advocates for epistemic humility regarding such questions. 42:51 🌌 Nietzsche's concept of the eternal return suggests that all physical forces and laws in the universe are in an endless play of forces against each other, never resolving themselves into a final state. 44:46 🔄 Nietzsche's philosophy posits that reality is an endless cycle of creation and destruction, akin to a cosmic play of forces, rather than the pursuit of an ultimate goal. 47:40 🌍 Nietzsche challenges the idea of the world as a living being or organism, rejecting the concept of a personal or impersonal universe. 49:11 🤔 Nietzsche highlights the limitations of human knowledge, citing the problems of induction and cognitive constraints, which prevent us from achieving absolute certainty about the nature of reality. 51:38 🌟 Nietzsche views eternal recurrence as a doctrine that affirms and spiritualizes the world, serving as a standard to measure the worth of religious beliefs and moral systems. 53:06 😰 Nietzsche recognizes that the idea of eternal recurrence can be paralyzing for some individuals, as it implies that all experiences, both joyful and painful, will recur infinitely. 56:01 💬 Nietzsche contrasts the concept of "this too shall pass" with his eternal return, emphasizing the difference in attitude towards life and experiences. 01:02:02 🎭 Nietzsche's mental exercise involving eternal recurrence reflects his deep love for life and a desire for all experiences, past and future, to be considered eternal rather than fleeting. 01:04:01 🧠 Nietzsche sought to engender a powerful religious belief, not merely a philosophical thought experiment. 01:05:51 🙏 Nietzsche aimed to create a new religious meme, particularly centered around the idea of eternal return. 01:08:11 💡 Nietzsche viewed moralities and religions as tools to shape mankind's values and culture. 01:09:33 ⚔ Nietzsche saw Zarathustra as his weapon to counterbalance Christianity and spread his new values. 01:11:57 🔄 Eternal recurrence, while not a scientific hypothesis, served as a moral and cultural doctrine. 01:14:28 🌌 Nietzsche's eternal recurrence aimed to challenge mediocrity and inspire the will to power. 01:21:05 🔄 Nietzsche sought to combine the ever-dynamic world of becoming with the concept of eternity in his doctrine.

[@nguyenquangminh4814]

Absolutely tremendous work man. Thank you so much

[@Dylonysus]

The level of synchronicity I’m having with your content is immense, and also I feel I understand this far better now than I did on previous listens

[@garrycraigpowell]

Yet another magisterial lecture. I am speechless with admiration.

[@gingerbreadzak]

02:26:00 🐍 The concept of eternal return in Nietzsche's philosophy means that every memory, including character flaws, is eternal, which can be terrifying. 02:27:07 🌀 Nietzsche rejects the linear view of time, suggesting that time is a closed circuit, making every moment eternal. 02:29:33 🤔 Zarathustra questions whether he is dreaming or waking up, reminiscent of Zhuangzi's dream of being a butterfly. 02:30:28 😱 The shepherd in Zarathustra's vision chokes on a snake, symbolizing the conscious understanding of good and evil, and must bite through it to transform. 02:32:26 🐶 The dog symbolizes Zarathustra's pity, and he realizes that pity does not help mankind face the challenge of eternal return. 02:35:48 🦸‍♂ The Ubermensch (Overman) concept represents the next higher form of mankind, a goal to strive for, and the justification for eternal return's challenge. 02:44:47 🌟 Faith in the Ubermensch is the belief that the highest qualities in mankind will answer for the lowest, giving meaning to human existence and justifying life. 02:46:40 🌟 Nietzsche emphasizes the importance of living a life that cultivates the best aspects of oneself, making every moment count in the face of eternal return. 02:47:14 🎉 Zarathustra's faith in the transformation of the shepherd into a higher being serves as an example of having faith in the greatest aspects of mankind to answer its smallness. 02:47:46 🍷 The "Drunken Song" in Nietzsche's work highlights the interconnectedness of joy and sorrow, emphasizing the necessity of both in experiencing life fully. 02:50:06 💥 Every eventuality in life is interconnected and necessary, and seeking the eternity of one's joy implies seeking the eternity of everything, both joy and sorrow. 02:51:32 🔄 The pursuit of joy and sorrow are intertwined, and seeking eternal joy means accepting and embracing all aspects of life, including failures and woe. 02:52:39 🌅 Nietzsche challenges Schopenhauer's pessimism by suggesting that embracing both joy and agony is essential for a full and meaningful life, thereby rejecting the idea that there's no final happiness.

[@gingerbreadzak]

01:24:53 🎨 Nietzsche invokes art as a force that can transform becoming into being and eternally justify the world. 01:27:26 🔮 The will to power characterizes all life, driving the attempt to make becoming into being, a process called eternalization, often undertaken by artists and creators. 01:30:17 🙏 Nietzsche's philosophy involves revaluing life in the light of the death of God and finding eternal value and joy in one's existence. 01:32:12 📖 Nietzsche presents the idea of eternal return as a parable, leaving room for varied interpretations. 01:34:27 🤔 Nietzsche's philosophy combines both skeptical and mythological elements, making it challenging to fully reconcile his ideas. 01:38:51 🎨 Nietzsche sees ancient philosophers as artists representing universal existence through concepts, similar to his own mythological approach. 01:41:22 📚 Nietzsche's "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" blends philosophy, art, and religious inspiration, presenting the eternal return in the form of stories and myths. 01:43:14 🏝 Nietzsche's reference to the "Isles of the Blessed" in his work draws from classical antiquity and mythical elements. 01:45:01 🗝 Zarathustra considers the "Isles of the Blessed" as an idyllic location for the virtuous and heroic, possibly representing an Epicurean garden. 01:45:55 🏞 Epicurus' concept of the good life as a simple, secluded community of philosophers parallels Nietzsche's inclination to retreat from the world. 01:46:54 🌄 Nietzsche's unrealized ambition to start his own Epicurean community with Lou Salomé and Paul Rée. 01:47:19 🚶‍♂ Zarathustra's inner conflict between his desire to be a teacher among men and his need for solitude mirrors Nietzsche's own dividedness. 01:48:49 😨 Zarathustra's encounter with a voiceless presence in his dream, symbolizing his terrifying duty to preach the eternal recurrence doctrine. 01:50:09 🕊 Zarathustra's vulnerability and fear reflect human traits and flaws, akin to Jesus' hesitation in Gethsemane. 01:51:25 🍼 Becoming childlike, innocent, and creative is presented as a supreme virtue and challenge for Zarathustra. 01:53:38 📜 Zarathustra's acceptance of the painful task of preaching the eternal return doctrine, symbolizing his readiness for greatness. 01:54:44 🛤 Zarathustra's departure from his friends and his willingness to face solitude as part of his destiny. 02:03:12 🌊 Zarathustra's metaphor of descending deeper into pain and loneliness before reaching his highest mountain symbolizes his journey towards greatness and the acceptance of destiny. 02:05:03 🌊 Nietzsche uses metaphors like heights and depths, symbolizing wisdom and the unconscious mind, in his work. 02:05:56 🌄 Nietzsche asserts that the highest human achievements emerge from the unconscious and irrational aspects of life. 02:07:28 📚 Nietzsche's "Eternal Return" is presented as a terrifying concept in his work "Thus Spoke Zarathustra," challenging the main character's journey. 02:09:00 🧙‍♂ Nietzsche creates the concept of the "spirit of gravity" as a force opposing Zarathustra's ascent and symbolizing world weariness. 02:11:30 💡 The philosopher'sstone in Nietzsche's work represents the ultimate insight and wisdom that can transform a world-weary perspective into one filled with courage and hope. 02:19:49 🔄 Nietzsche uses the metaphor of a gateway to introduce his doctrine of eternal return, suggesting that all events and lives recur infinitely. 02:25:00 🐕 The passage ends with Nietzsche recalling a childhood memory of a howling dog, evoking a sense of eeriness and recurring themes in his work.

[@sudhirpatel7620]

Nature goes on forever for everyone and everything to return as everyone and everything an infinite number of times through evolutionary processes. 🌌

[@cheri238]

With the deepest appreciatiÿon and respect for your insights about Nietzche's works.

[@JoBlakeLisbon]

Eternal return supersedes almost any other self-help or motivational tools. Eternal return - if you can simply use it as a principle - compels you to live the highest, most noble life you are capable of. It's particularly useful for those big life decisions. Honestly I wish I had understood Nietszche younger. I only started reading him at 32 after having worked through much of the rest of the Western pantheon in the hope of finding something useful - which frankly I never did. Genealogy of morals was, by far, the most astonishing book of the thousands I had read up to that point in my life. Nietszche basically told me that all of the impulses towards conquest and power that I had always experienced and hidden were not only not bad, they were in fact the highest good and the essence of life. It slowly freed me from pretending I was a nice guy which was always an act anyway and unleashed someone much more formidable

[@ahmedmahmud4238]

Sociopaths are like "Nietszche, hell yeah" 😂

[@saeiddavatolhagh9627]

History never repeats itself exactly. Every cycle seems to differ in subtle ways.

[@Dylonysus]

So irrelevant

[@saeiddavatolhagh9627]

Evolution is irreversible. Every life cycle is a different life much like every day is a different day. I hope this is useful.

[@jimc.goodfellas]

I've always thought that was such a chillingly brilliant passage, one shudders reading it... it's hard to decide where to fall on the idea of ER

[@jimc.goodfellas]

Amor fati!

[@anthonypocetti]

Thanks for this! Brilliant explanation 🙏🙏

[@longcastle4863]

Idk, I'd have to first bargain for undoing that poem I wrote that one time and gave to a girl when we broke up. After nearly 40 years that one still haunts me and makes me cringe in the middle of the night. But in all seriousness, a really cool interesting idea by Nietzsche, but not one of his I find compelling or motivating (unlike many others of his). I would say it this way: Say you had lived the most wonderful fantastic life -- if given a choice would you choose to live it again -- or roll the dice with a new one?

[@deathtomichaelknagge4397]

you should study, instead of talking about something you haven't

[@hermanhale9258]

Message to Nietzsche : You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.

[@tonyamartin1425]

yea he has trans genders in schools bet he didn't see that one coming lol

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

I'm glad you said you're not sure about the word "religion" here... it is not a religion, it is an ethics for life. A way to decide when the toughest situations or questions present themselves, to decide in such a way that we ant to relive it and make the same decisions. That we decide so that we would do it again if the same situation were to present itself. We also recall he said specifically he wanted no followers, do'n't make him into a religious leader or saint, which wishes were discard at his funeral by some name I can't recall.

[@untimelyreflections]

Peter Gast pronounced his name holy at his funeral, in direct contradiction to N’s wishes.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

@@untimelyreflections Thanks.

[@sohrab_solheim]

This just getting better as I progress😅 thanks so much.

[@dannyteal1020]

Groundhog Day

[@falakoala4579]

Never heard of any one with this idea. I came to almost the same conclusion in an epiphany when I was in my early 20s. So weird

[@ralphricart3177]

This life can only be lived without meaningful interaction with backdrop people. There is nothing to be attained from them.

[@ZagreusoftheDesert]

Nietzsche : ‘ im not spiritual but I am religious ‘

[@maryanneevans8812]

Hahaahahah 😂😂😂😂Good one

[@adriandeangelis2211]

You mentioned Nietzsche "Meditations" but I found three works with that name: Untimely, Aurora, Meditaciones Intempestivas I and II - some in English translations and some in Spanish. Which work of "meditations" are you making mention of? Thank you for your enlightening work.

[@untimelyreflections]

The name in German is Unzeitgemasse Betrachtungen. Variously translated as “Untimely Meditations”, “Thoughts out of Season”, etc. if you google the German you should be able to find it easily.

[@ZM-dm3jg]

I'm confused, doesn't this model disallow any free will? If the eternal return means everything plays out the same, doesn't that mean that everything must be pre-determined? Yet Nietzsche doesn't seem to believe it's all predetermined?

[@untimelyreflections]

Nietzsche doesn’t believe in free will.

[@nguyenquangminh4814]

33:52 inversion of Christianity’s conception of chastity. Whereas the former advocates spiritual chastity and considers bodily and worldly things “dirty”, Nietzsche conceives the opposite: longing for otherworldly things makes you not chaste for THIS world, which you should be because it’s the only one there is.

[@DanielChristenson-my3ki]

How is Eternal Return different from Kant's various formulations of the Categorical Imperative? ER refers to a life repeating endlessly, while CI concerns deliberation about actions. If you look at the objectives of both writers using a construct to evaluate actions, I think the goal is the same even though ER and CI are quite different. Does Nietzsche's philosophy really need Eternal Return? If you remove ER passages, does it still make a coherent whole?

[@DANTE-kg4zg]

It differs in that which Kant's CI is fundamentally an experience of universality, while Nietzsche's ER is a fundamentally individual experience. Basically, ER would still work if you were the only living being on the earth.

[@alejandromoralesgonz]

But why not question, what is reality? In the end Reality is happening in our minds. All of it. Even your very own reading of this sentence, or me writing it.

[@JAMAICADOCK]

Nietzsche like Marx, reveled in edgy emotive polemic alongside more measured, analytical critiques. At times they probably let their anger and their passion get the better of them, not foreseeing how their words would be carried out verbatim following their deaths. Maybe present thinkers should take note, think very carefully about every word you set down, because they can bet their bottom dollar it's gonna be taken literally But that said, it's the passion and the anger that makes both Marx and Nietzsche such compelling figures.

[@isaacbarratt854]

2:48:48 "drunken song", about our joy

[@isaacbarratt854]

"all Joy longs for failure", this sounds wrong, it sounds like the type of conviction only an observer would arrive upon. "joy longs to be hated", yes, indeed only the observer would conclude that joy wishes for failure, our joy makes us consider the opposite; is this success? Joy makes the categories of reason struggle with their categories. Joy: "it also wants agony". How can this possibly be good? Because the low points also justify the high points? But there is no point of comparison: when in a moment of bliss the categories don't exist. our joy destroys our categories. It overlooks them? It stands above. Exactly what is superhuman about those who experience it: must one allow one's self to experience it; do our categories act like barriers preventing us from doing so?

[@isaacbarratt854]

could it be: could it possibly be that Joy revaluates life for us to the point where nothing 'is' as it 'was'. Perspectivism. That an emotion could carry within it a perspective. That a perspective could be conditioned within us by an emotion: but if only. But if only we could replicate the affect at will, perhaps we could also condition within ourselves this perspective? If our joy were a carrot attached to a string, dangled in front of our nose, a carrot sweeter than all the grass around: would that make us donkeys? Donkeys are stubborn, you may need to drag them to the water before they drink. But alas! 'Drown them in champagne so that only bubbles of bliss may rise to the surface', provide them with all the sweet things of life and they might 'still' throw away their cakes (Dostoyevsky). Is mankind timid to feel, or do we love our truth, our convictions and our categories more than we care about happiness; exactly what is the human condition?

[@isaacbarratt854]

life before joy was a mistake: but we must not allow ourselves to believe this... because what 'if' we were to 'act' as though this were true: does this terrify us? do we tremble at the revelation: do we shudder at the thought? what happens to our impulses when we allow our joy to re-condition them: what happens to our perspective? How does this condition within us a new paradigm of thinking? What is perspective?

[@ptag6]

I understand time as a man made concept.

[@piushalg8175]

This idea is quite sick. Whoever wants to be tortured over and over again? it is lunatic , isn't it? Even if it is called philosophyic..

[@maxmacken8859]

1:04:00 hell

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

If ----- and only if ----- this is to be treated seriously as a "religion", I would say that the mass of humanity NEEDS a religion, as a guide, ethics change, ethics is regional, ethics is born from the climate or geography of a place, etc etc, but this way of thinking Nietzsche presents is universal, no matter where you are on the planet... And so Nietzsche has postulated this as a much better way of religion, but as far as I can tell, a religion without a god, a non hierarchical, much better way of life?? It is still incomplete since we can only live it at the moment or timeframe we are now, and if new information comes our way we by this religious necessity and demand, would have to correct or decide anew, and in that sense it si much better and flexible than other religions?? In other religions you first MUST be forgiven and then, once cleared, you can decide anew bc the "sin" has already been committed. Something like that.

[@tomato1040]

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[@integralsun]

Any mental formulation imaginable can present similar “ground hog day” challenges. Perhaps, each moment is experienced in an infinite loop. After all, the lifetime span is an arbitrary one that has a beginning and end time frame that corresponds more or less to the experience of memory formation and recall. If you eliminate the memory faculty and you instantly eliminate the sense of time and you’re left with only the present moment. That’s the only reality. That’s the take away of any time-framed version of the Challenge in my opinion. The intellect, memory, and other mental structures have obvious survival and cultural utility but to understand Reality only the present moment is needed. The Jnani has a difficult path and Western philosophy is the best testament to its pitfalls! The Bhakti has a way easier path. Namaste dear Nietzsche ❤.

[@hammerdureason8926]

hmm, Is is not christ himself the foundation/model of the eternal recurrence in that he is eternally born, crucified and resurrected in the modity of religious/sacred time and his life replayrdd in perfect detail as 'god/the life/the word made flesh. does not christ, although a god, choose this recurrence for the love of man/the flesh and not the love of god as the son of man. so at best nietzsche is just rebranding this modality of recurrence sans reason/platonic tradition. christ is the archetype for nietzsche's eternal recurrence.

[@kavorka8855]

Actually, that's exactly what marxists also say, that you couldn't understand Marx without reading ALL his works, you couldn't take a couple of lines from his books, they say, as that would be considered out of context. Almost all cults are the same, from Abrahamic religions, to Nietzsche. Nietzsche was a social Darwinist. There's absolutely nothing he said that wasn't fully debated in England during and way before his time.

[@bigdaddydrip4452]

What a lazy and ignorant generalization. You can't fully understand Nietzsches works if you haven't also read the philosophers he is responding to, because he is writing to other scholars and adding to the whole field. You can't understand a physics paper without having a groundwork understanding of modern physics. Does that make physics a cult? And fyi, there are plenty of parts of Nietzsche you can understand without reading his entire works.

[@kavorka8855]

@@bigdaddydrip4452 you must be a "scholar" 🤣

[@bigdaddydrip4452]

@kavorka8855 You dont have to be a "scholar" to understand what he is doing🤣. I dont consider myself a scholar yet because i am relatively ignorant in most of the primary philosophical texts. I am an undergraduate physics major, but i am only 3 years in college. But if you see two people conversing, and you can't understand the convo without the context of the conversation, is that considered a cult?

[@kavorka8855]

@@bigdaddydrip4452 then you're very young, read on for at least 3 decades and come back to what I wrote above.

[@zardoz7900]

I wonder if he would chose to relieve his life, in other words relive and rewrite all the embarrassing letters to Wagners soon to be wife, in other words not having a firm grasp or understanding of his emotions, lack of self awareness in that respect and so forth. He is undoubtedly an intellectual behemoth in his own respect but ironically his ad hominem attack on Socrates directly reflect his own shortcomings. Which brings about a point that you have to BE your philosophy. A philosopher who is not his philosophy is a liar. Something to be said about Ramana Maharshi's words that silence is the ultimate teaching. I haven't heard Alexander the great lecture at length, nor William Marshal nor Diogenes for that matter truly was himself when he spontaneously told Alexander the Great to step aside as he was in his way of him getting his daily dose of sunshine. Marcus Aurelius was inflicted with the same narcissistic ailment. Everybody talks about his Meditations yet no one mentions that he created a monster one of the worst tyrants in Rome's history and that he's directly responsible for his son becoming one? Why was he too preoccupied with his own image in front of the public so that those to close him had to suffer his shadow? The fact that your own son becomes one of the worst tyrants is YOUR colossal failure. What good can any book fueled by ones own superego be of to anyone?

[@DANTE-kg4zg]

hmmm, I wonder if when writing about reliving your own life eternally Nietzsche thought about **his own life and shortcomings**. Probably not, thank god you're here

[@aAsShHtTo0nN]

@@DANTE-kg4zg😅

[@badabing3391]

does it matter if a person is hypocritical if the hypocritic message is true

[@leonardotavaresdardenne9955]

Would you think Amor Fati is good philosophy for Holocaust survivors? "Yes you should affirm the time where you and all of your friends were put trough indescribable torture and death for no real reason, and you should sincerely want to live it all over again". "Loving your fate" in this way sounds not only pathological, but an insult to the memories or your friends who died on the gas chamber.

[@untimelyreflections]

Well yeah, I mean, Nietzsche’s not for everyone. If you’re looking for universalist moral philosophy, try Kant. 👍🏻

[@elchasseur9927]

​​@@untimelyreflections I mean this is a good point. I wonder if Nietzsche would still affirm the last 10 years of his life or the legacy of his work in NSDAP Germany (through his sister) for all of eternity.

[@untimelyreflections]

@@elchasseur9927 It is bizarre that he seemed to understand that he would be misunderstood - and yet wrote his books anyway. He wrote that "horrible things will be done in my name", and expressed concerns throughout his work that his philosophy would be used for ends that he found abhorrent. We also meet character's like "Zarathustra's Ape", a false prophet who misrepresents Zarathustra, and repackages his ideas to gain popularity with the masses. There is a wonderful passage in Charlie Huenemann's book where Nietzsche encounters the Greek gods, and Aries, in a moment of rage, after Nietzsche challenges them, tells Nietzsche that he will go mad, and men who represent everything that he hates will use his ideas to kill millions. Nietzsche then still affirms this existence for all eternity.

[@DANTE-kg4zg]

On the question of suffering I suggest reading Deleuze's commentary on the opposite figures of Christ and Dionysus as two figures that resolve suffering, in Deleuze's "Nietzsche et la philosophie". Basically, with Christ suffering becomes an argument against life, an accusation of life itself (if life is suffering life must be evil ; we suffer in life because we are guilty), in which the suffering is interiorized (becoming "Gewissen"= moral consciousness, see Genealogy of Morals, II, 3-9). In Dionysus, suffering is exteriorized, suffering becomes bearable in the name of life. The ultimate value which resides in life itself is not taken down by suffering, it justifies it. I think this can be linked to your question on suffering : it is not that one must accept suffering in the name of accepting suffering, as a kind of ascetic self-inflicted punishment. The real question is not the "what?" of the suffering but the "why?" : one does not affirm life in spite of extreme suffering, the affirmation of life itself is what renders that extreme suffering bearable. (Deleuze explains it better than me) I'm not gonna pretend like I can even imagine what being a Holocaust survivor is like, but I would say that as a general rule it seems to me that loving life and fate itself is the only thing that can save that suffering from becoming meaningless.

[@leonardotavaresdardenne9955]

@@DANTE-kg4zg Perhaps I missunderstand but I guess my problem is when giving certain types of suffering a "why" at all. I think this type of thought process, of somehow subliming suffering and "weakness" into joy and "strengh" can be 'tactically' useful, depending on your situation; I think ot particularly fits the sufferings Nietzsche went trough, disease and mental anguish. But for certain things, like experiences of horrible individual and collective of humiliation and torture such has the Holocaust, I think to try and turn the suffering into anything other than it is comes across has unhealthy. I guess what really bothers me is people treating it has a kind "universal morality"; the guy who made the video threw this objection at me, but what bothers me is exactly that people like him almost treat this idea has an universal morality.

[@lesliecunliffe4450]

Nietzsche misunderstands Christianity.

[@carlharmeling512]

Nietzsche’s concept of eternal recurrence is the ultimate state of a so-called determinist reality; billiard balls striking other billiard balls and moving about in mathematically predictable directions. The nonsensical theory of fractals undermines the crazy mess it makes of everything. Somebody had to state this, so Nietzsche gave it a go. For a man who renounced Christianity, denounced I should say, it makes sense he would need to affirm his every past action with an eternal recurrence rather than embrace the act of repentance and move on to better things. That was too simple a solution for a skilled academic like himself. It doesn’t take a PhD to repent and PhDs seldom do.

[@untimelyreflections]

This comment doesn't display a good grasp of the material, which is arguably typical for someone who fetishizes “repentance”.

[@carlharmeling512]

@@untimelyreflections Please let me know what a good grasp of the material looks like. Sorry about your poor grasp of the concept and I would suppose act of repentance.

[@melaniefranklin7607]

Please stop swallowing mid sentence 😅🙏🙏🙏

[@peterwinters-uc7ft]

Like Marx who said je ne Sui un marxiste...

[@peterwinters-uc7ft]

Keegan, you have a cold and your delivery is suboptimal. But your religion is N.