Schopenhauer & Nietzsche: Overcoming Pessimism

[@ubik1106]

This is an incredibly well done series, from the sound quality, to the depth, everything is top notch.

[@untimelyreflections]

Thank you very much!

[@smellymala3103]

Really grateful to be among the few that have found your recordings, thank you for sharing.

[@leader95949]

Nietzsche and Schopenhauer are smiling!

[@eddiebeato5546]

Blissful hours, immersed in your philosophic lectures, have cast my rather hasty days -my transient ennui- in NYC with the serenest sunsets of completeness and dusk. My advice is to enjoy your remaining days with the higher pleasures of the soul, and if you aim at Nietzsche’s Dionysian hedonism, learn to temper your licentious binges and extravaganzas by a prudent measure of self-imposed discipline: early studious hours under the teachings of a competent master (e.g., Jesus, Socrates, Schopenhauer the Educator, Buddha, Hermes, Pythagoras, Frederick the Great) as befitting a blessed child born for the mountaintops of the gods. Of course, I have never met a great man without some rigorous, self-imposed sturdiness to striving for order, chastity, excellence, loftiness, and a surplus of creative energy to enhancing and ameliorating the broad canvas of existence. Therefore, dress well, because according to Machiavelli, the outward appearance is often a replica of the inward. My concept of the overman is pretty much a reclusive hermit the likes of Henry D. Thoreau, John the Baptist or Ferdinand Ossendowski, Men Beasts and Gods! Thanks for your amazing lectures!

[@christiansather8438]

I get this sense you somehow manage to do what I wish I could do. I feel like you bring into the fold all those brilliant little pondering that flash into our minds and then slip through our fingers. We forget. I don’t know if you are taking notes throughout your days or have the gift of wrangling in so many little insights.

[@mindfever6285]

Your voice has a very calming effect on my little cats. Thanks already just for that. Look at them laying around so peacefully instead of tearing down the place.

[@gingerbreadzak]

Schopenhauer & Nietzsche: Overcoming Pessimism 00:00 📚 Nietzsche's essay "Schopenhauer as Educator" is the focus of discussion, where he explores an underlying question related to Schopenhauer's ideas. 01:31 📝 Nietzsche's "Untimely Meditations" essays, including "Schopenhauer as Educator," were part of a larger project that he may have abandoned or reformulated into a book-length form. 05:21 🧠 "Schopenhauer as Educator" is considered the heart of Nietzsche's "Untimely Meditations" and addresses the state of education and culture in Nietzsche's society. 06:50 🌍 Nietzsche explores the idea of progress and the goal of humanity, emphasizing the importance of the highest specimens of humanity. 14:24 🤔 Nietzsche rejects hedonism and seeks to find a qualitative leap that distinguishes humanity from animals, aiming for a truly human existence. 19:44 🚀 Nietzsche introduces the idea that humanity has the potential for elevation but has not yet demonstrated it through its activities and history. 22:30 🧠 Nietzsche argues that human actions are driven by unconscious physiological instincts, which he considers as the "beast within us." 23:25 🧘 Nietzsche and Schopenhauer both believe that humanity has the potential to rise above base instincts and suffering to achieve a higher state. 26:19 📜 Nietzsche sees culture as a means to elevate humanity by encouraging individuals to strive for higher, more humane ideals. 28:12 💡 Nietzsche criticizes the scholars and intellectuals of his time, seeing them as hindrances to true cultural progress. 32:37 🌟 Nietzsche values individuals like Schopenhauer and Heraclitus as examples of genius who inspire and elevate culture. 38:59 💰 Nietzsche criticizes the pursuit of material wealth and the short-term mindset of his society, seeing it as detrimental to true culture. 43:34 🏛 Nietzsche argues that the state, businessmen, and those obsessed with superficial culture all hinder the emergence of genius and true culture. These key takeaways summarize Nietzsche's perspective on culture, human nature, and the obstacles he perceives in his contemporary society to achieving a higher, more elevated form of culture. 45:34 🤔 Nietzsche discusses the impact of the church and the Reformation on society. 46:30 🧠 Nietzsche categorizes individuals into four types, including scholars who pursue knowledge for self-advancement. 48:23 🤔 Nietzsche reflects on his own place within the academic world and the limitations it imposes. 49:51 🤔 Nietzsche's transition from an intellectual to a philosopher is influenced by Schopenhauer's ideas. 53:16 🤔 Nietzsche discusses the importance of philosophers, artists, and saints in shaping culture and values. 57:53 🤔 Nietzsche criticizes the negative aspects of saints, artists, and philosophers while recognizing their significance. 01:00:17 🧐 Nietzsche identifies three archetypal figures - Rousseau, Goethe, and Schopenhauer - as inspirations for transforming human lives. 01:04:40 🤔 Nietzsche aligns with Romanticism's spirit of untimeliness and critiques the idea of cumulative progress. 01:06:36 🧐 Nietzsche sees the potential of Romanticism to influence the zeitgeist in different directions, depending on the chosen ideal. 01:07:00 🤯 Hobbes argued that the state enforces morality, while Rousseau believed smaller, direct democracies were more moral. 01:07:31 😲 Nietzsche associates Rousseau's ideas with revolutionary upheavals and a longing to return to nature. 01:08:24 🌿 Rousseau's vision involves escaping civilization's complexity to reconnect with nature and find justice. 01:09:18 💥 Nietzsche acknowledges that revolutionaries are driven by a belief in the natural goodness of mankind and a desire to recreate justice. 01:10:15 🌍 Rousseau's concept involves mankind returning to a higher ideal within the natural world. 01:11:41 🌋 Nietzsche warns about the danger of revolutionary attitudes while acknowledging their aim to elevate mankind. 01:12:42 🖋 Goethe's man seeks endless transformation through knowledge and experience. 01:14:36 💡 Goethe's man is a contemplative seeker, different from the revolutionary and Schopenhauer's hero. 01:19:00 🦸 Schopenhauer's hero is a heroic philosopher who fights for truth and is willing to suffer for it. 01:20:30 🌄 Schopenhauer's hero challenges comfort, opposes culture, and represents a path of individuality and grit. 01:27:45 🤔 Nietzsche identifies three paths for elevating mankind: philosophy, artistic expression, and asceticism. 01:28:40 📜 Nietzsche's early philosophy in "Human, All Too Human" accepts naturalistic origins of mankind and critiques metaphysical claims. 01:29:36 ⚡ Nietzsche's critical period challenges religion, philosophy, and morality, leading to the death of God and undermining transcendent values. 01:30:35 🌟 Nietzsche looks to historical figures and cultures as examples for elevating mankind, rejecting linear progress. 01:33:19 🦁 Nietzsche's insight shifts from casting out the beast to harnessing its power, leading to the discovery of the will to power. 01:35:14 🎭 Nietzsche identifies the dionysian as an artistic force representing the release of suppressed natural impulses. 01:42:59 🖼 Nietzsche discusses romanticism as a response to different kinds of suffering: those seeking growth and those seeking escape. 01:46:37 ⚰ Nietzsche criticizes romanticism for often leading to the rejection of the physical world and the pursuit of a savior or escape. 01:48:14 📜 Nietzsche misunderstood Wagner and Schopenhauer's romanticism as a means of inspiring life, similar to his idea of monumental history. 01:49:12 🤔 Nietzsche distinguishes between desires for rigidity and perpetuation (Apollonian) and desires for destruction and change (Dionysian). 01:50:44 🧐 Nietzsche explores the emotional aspect of desires and the distinction between embracing struggle and change or seeking refuge. 01:57:42 🤷‍♂ Nietzsche associates pessimism with romanticism, exemplified by Schopenhauer and Wagner, as opposed to the Dionysian worldview. 02:00:05 🐾 The Dionysian represents the integration of the animalistic nature of humanity with reason, emphasizing transformation over destruction. 02:06:16 🧪 Nietzsche identifies the problem of science itself as something frightful and dangerous, marking a shift in his philosophical focus. 02:08:41 🤯 Nietzsche's early criticism of science as problematic foreshadows his later criticisms of philosophy and religion, revealing a deeper connection. 02:09:15 🤔 Nietzsche sees Socrates as the mystagon of science who challenges and questions sacred values, willing to die for truth. 02:10:15 🎭 Socrates is absurdly rational, unartistic, and opposes the Dionysian, while Euripides creates optimistic art. 02:12:35 🌟 Socrates and Socratism reject life in favor of truth, leading to the emergence of Christianity and the rejection of the physical world. 02:14:55 🤔 Nietzsche questions if pessimism can be a sign of strength, intellectual courage, and a desire to confront life's challenges. 02:19:02 📚 Schopenhauer's pessimism is seen as a pessimism of weakness, seeking repose and escape from life's suffering. 02:20:25 💡 Nietzsche seeks to incorporate the Dionysian impulse into culture for the furtherance of life, distinguishing himself from Schopenhauer and other mentors. 02:22:21 🤝 Nietzsche evaluates thinkers based on whether their ideas foster life and lead to the betterment of mankind.

[@monikadefrance5074]

Thank you!

[@outofbox000]

Thank you man

[@TommyMVMV]

Wow man... Thanks!

[@whoaitstiger]

1:22:18 The most profound words I've ever encountered in my life. 😦

[@cocoanco7]

Same here. Unique.

[@whoaitstiger]

@@cocoanco7 Thanks for reminding me. Even after a year of amazing Nietzsche quotes from this podcast, this one still reigns supreme. I've written it down now.

[@nigelmsipa]

This is simply impeccable. The depth and focus is nothing short of a masterpiece.

[@samuelinauen1038]

Your work gets better with every podcast I'm listening to! Thank you!!

[@samuelinauen1038]

Who is this philosoph you're mentioning in the quotation at 54:09 ? I can't figure out how to pronounce his name

[@untimelyreflections]

Do you mean Goethe?

[@samuelinauen1038]

@@untimelyreflections haha oooh man thank you! I couldn't unterstand it because we pronounce it a little different in german 🙏🏻 My bad! 😆

[@michaelroche5744]

Thank you for these brilliant presentations. What is the best Nietzsche biography?

[@longcastle4863]

1:00:30... _...or a poser making modern popular art..._ Genuinely love your channel, but I'm also genuinely confused. I've now listened to all your Nietzsche videos and this is the second time you've made such a statement. Does your sentiment also include "moderns" in other fields,? For example, literature (Joyce, Faulkner, Pynchon, McCarthy) or music (Mahler, Schoenberg, Penderecki, Glass -- even Debussy who's _Afternoon of a Faun_ was once considered "unlistenable") or just the visual arts -- and if so, where do you draw the line? because all the following have formally been maligned in similar ways as calling them "posers": Monet, Cezanne, Picasso, Miro, de Kooning, Pollack... Clearly, I appreciate your channel, so please consider this in the nature of a genuine enquiry. Like what may happen in a symposium : ) Also, I don't expect you to answer this here -- or even answer it at all if you don't want to. But maybe address it briefly in some future video sometime... Because, honestly, it's a view that really feels like it comes out of left field -- not really related to Nietzsche at all.

[@untimelyreflections]

Well, there's a couple things to disentangle in this remark. First of all, my main intention was to distinguish what Nietzsche means by "the artist" from someone who just happens do art as a profession. Similarly to how Nietzsche speaks of "philosophers" in BGE, book I, he means "the great philosophers", not just someone who teaches philosophy at a college somewhere. A philosophy don or professor may have learned a lot about his subject, but that isn't the coin of the realm. In this particular essay, he's looking for the inspiration of genius, so we can't just give the title of "artist" (insofar as it's what Nietzsche is talking about in this context) to an art student, art teacher, someone doing art to become popular, someone doing art to follow a trend, etc. I don't recall the first time I made such a disparaging statement about modern art, so I'd have to see it in context to address it. But that being said, I don't mean Faulkner, Pynchon, Mahler, Debussy. I don't even mean contemporary popular forms of art and music that are actually produced by people with a genuine inspiration. I mean, specifically, the posers. The people who do poetry on instagram, in my view, are not poets. The people who tape a banana to a wall are not doing art - although, in that case, you could make a great argument that they're doing wonderful work as a satirist (and is satire a form of art? it gets complicated, I suppose). I fully admit that making any sort of pronouncement about what qualifies as good art or bad art is always contentious, and that plenty of people would say that my form of art is not art at all (what would Plato have said about "doom metal"???). So, while this may not be a satisfying answer, and somewhat tautological: I don't think all modern visual artists are posers, I think the posers are posers. As to who is who, sure it's a matter of opinion.... but I don't like the argument that, if it is a matter of opinion, on that account we should not share any strong opinions! I fully admit that this is a subjective issue that not everyone will agree with, but at the same time, I think any art not done out of a genuine expression of emotive inspiration and instead to seek popularity, is tarnished in some sense, sometimes to the point of becoming unartistic. I certainly wouldn't list any named figures in this respect (Although Prof. Moeller thinks Jackson Polluck belongs in his bucket! I found it hilarious when I interviewed him, and I see his argument for the "ridiculousness of a Polluck", though at the end of the day it's just his opinion and I'm open to arguments from the other side). Cheers!

[@longcastle4863]

@@untimelyreflections Thank you for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it. And understand your thoughts on this much better now. Also, don't know about Plato, but I think Nietzsche might have found the Dionysian in metal : )

[@smellymala3103]

@@longcastle4863 trap music my friend 🥤🥤

[@hmoen]

Love your podcast as it resonate with me in so many levels

[@jkellner3]

The pessimist in me also likes the podcast. In the most pessimistic way.

[@wandimuAyana]

Very clear, continue

[@sabitatumbabo5639]

Wow...what a great video..narratuve and all. Dear sir toud you like to provide us its script or note...kindly.

[@sudabdjadjgasdajdk3120]

How do we know that the Apollonian and Dionysian types actually exist and it isn't just nietzsche aestheticizing a blind process? (imposing meaning on the meaningless) It would explain why he was mistaken by his assessment of Wagner.

[@rafaelbendavid4041]

who says pessimism can or should be overcome?

[@untimelyreflections]

I do.

[@Verschlimmbesserung]

I think it cannot. Human existence presupposes pessimism. It can only be overcome through returning to non-existence.

[@neodermaesthetic]

Great videos!.Thank you.

[@benjaminseng4271]

Im coining a term "Nietzture" And If I can off to you my absolute gratitude for your brilliant work. I look forward to see what you go onto from here.

[@Necromancyr]

Uncle Ted AKA the "yoona-balmer" comes to mind, as Rousseau's man.

[@naushadahmed8090]

noooooooo. he hated the noble savage idea.

[@gus8310]

Could there be a mix of all 3 higher man?

[@Over-Boy42]

Ya, I have often wondered this myself. Perhaps the metamorphosis of the child could be a mix of all three? Or even the lion?

[@michaelgarth7077]

Your a good narrator. Interesting 👍

[@marcomiranda9476]

Thanks

[@ianwanjala8621]

great things!

[@Fang_Zheng]

I mean if we are not going to be businessman then how can we become rich and powerful to do anything special in this world? Isn't the pursuit if money another form of will to power? Without power how can you do anything at all ? We are living in a capitalistic world, so shouldn't we also play the game? Afterall if you can't beat it you should join it. I don't get it, what Nietzsche actually want us to do? To become powerful and make change in the world or to just become a monk in the mountains? (I'm new to philosophy so sorry if I sound ridiculous.)

[@untimelyreflections]

Money is a means, not an end.

[@Fang_Zheng]

@@untimelyreflections don't you think you should make a video exclusively about money? Don't you think there is a difference between a wise poor man and a wise millionaire?

[@gus8310]

@@Fang_Zhengmoney is a need for material gain. You can live a satisfying life without money if you’re view is in that place

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Today, June 12th, 2024. Have you changed your mind about this, from two years ago, in recent videos??

[@okaytoletgo]

with respect, the representation of buddha dharma is incorrect, according to the teaching of the eminent Dzongsar Khyentse, Rinpoche regarding their "ultimate" meaning--nirvana, karma, cause and effect being relegated to the provisional (or Cinderella) teachings, presented to catch the attention of seekers and provide us with a path. Ultimately, it is the recognition that there is no samsara, which is nirvana. The incorrect representation is so common: perhaps some scholar, has accounted for The Who what when and where & how, the narrative--equating nirvana with "heaven", some other than ordinary subject's ordinary states (and place)--emerged. Dongsar Khyentse often includes in his talks, a quote from Chandrakirti, that because sentient beings suffer, out of compassion we are allowed to have one ignorance for the time being: that there is such a thing as enlightenment.

[@ArmwrestlingJoe]

1:03:00

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

8:43 "...his REJECTION of god..." Why do so many call it a "rejection". ?? .. when it was a recognition, or logical result of logic, or even a denial of an idea. I know it is too simple but it is in fact the way we all eventually DENY that Santa Claus exists, it is a realization of it, same with the god thing, people come to that CONCLUSION once we have enough use of reason, if we read and study a bit. I didn't "REJECT" god, I just recognized it was never there. A useful idea to keep the innocent happy for a time, just like Santa.

[@wandimuAyana]

It looks you are talking infront of me. ❤❤

[@Bilboswaggins2077]

19:15

[@NonExpertKnowItAll]

They do realize Nietzsche suffered from megalomania and delusions of grandure in between manic depressive states. Then he had a series of strokes that deteriorated his cognitive faculties until he was a drooling invalid for the last 7 years of his life. That's what optimism gets you.

[@johnstewart7025]

He sounds like he believed in burning out, not rusting away. Ironically, Jesus said do not seek to save your life.

[@xfactorb25222]

Poor little Nietzsche, This is just a further proof that psychological suicide... be it religion, or any form of "being significant, or special" is a really great tool for most. He should have continued on to being a religious leader/thinker, whatever he may have became. It was untimely indeed to run across Schopenhauer, he was taught a truth, a a life changing gift he wish he could return. He was intelligent enough to digest, that what he was taught, was an undeniable and absolute fact beyond reproach. Yet, he continued his life trying to escape it. Stealing all the genius from Schopenhauer, then throwing his childish garbage as the solution, just different forms of psychological suicide. He fought so hard with his representation, but in the end, his little head couldn't take it...and popped. He's admired by many, his vanity would have liked that... his will, to be "special".

[@Necromancyr]

55:00

[@truthhammer69]

Why should pessimism be overcome when its another feature of reducing suffering and survival for a certain personality types.

[@4h844]

Because it is not an end ... why not stop developing your perception while continuing to use pessimistic crutches if they help you cope?

[@truthhammer69]

@@4h844 It is an end when it comes to this existance, at least for those who are honest with themsleves and don't want to engage in self delusion. Development of perception is not overcoming pessimism, since the latter is just realism that underpins everything else.

[@4h844]

I think it is absurd that what constitutes "realism" is pessimism. Unless I'm missing what pessimism completely. It is almost like discovering nihilism and not being able to understand and accept absurdism, just because I like nihilism more or I prefer it. If you want to subscribe to one of these approaches for your individual life, that's different than saying the rest doesn't matter and is self delusion. Just because anxious people like to have confirmation bias and pessimism helps them cope doesn't make it a sacred wholistic approach to the nature of reality and ourselves.

[@truthhammer69]

@@4h844 I'm talking about pessimism in a philosophical sense, not in the doomerism kind of sense. And yes, schopenhaurean worldview is the closest to reality. I'm not saying everything else doesn't matter if it helps reduce suffering, but I am saying it is self delusion, yes. Nothing I have read or seen has been able to convince me otherwise and I am very open minded. So yes, it is the end unless you magically achieve an ego death, which good luck with that. Also, it's important to clarify that pessimism =/= nihilism. Pessimism often goes hand in hand with compassion and empathy. Otherwise, one would just cope with nihilism. The part about anxious people having confirmation bias is wrong. I believe anxious people have a clearer wordview since they have a more complex nervous system which allows them to percieve things in a more complex way and see things others don't. The only way to transcend pessimism(which is this reality) is through either death or enlightenment = ego death, which can be experienced through psychedelics. But then you're back to your ego anyways.

[@4h844]

@TruthHammer69 I think I just have a semantical issue with "reality" - I agree with the idea of ego death and the impossibility of really of living as if we had no ego that you put forward. But, I still believe there is value in investigating the world that so far lays outside of our grasp. We are of course, limited by the capacity of our biology. Still, exploring what lays beyond our perceptual/sensual abilities helps us make better choices and better understand our limited world. Even if we can't be consistently ego-dead, experiencing it on psychedelics could still "reveal" or inform you about the "real" world after the fact, no? And I'm grappling with this: does pessimism claim that life is inherently meaningless ? Or, without purpose, design, whatever .. ? That is what I protest - how can such a claim be made without being able to see far in the time horizon? I don't care about God, but I just want to be consistently agnostic in my approach, which is perhaps why I'm being so stubborn at 5 am.

[@ArmwrestlingJoe]

39:00