Nightmare board removal to repair power and audio sections. Grundig Satellit 650 Pro rest. pt.2

Removing a board on one of these vintage transistor radios is always a little risky, particularly when there are loads of wires connecting it to the rest of the radio. The audio and power board on this Grundig Satellit 650 Pro was particularly difficult. In fact, if you needed to replace some components on here, you just could not do it without de-soldering dozens of wires, as most of the components are otherwise inaccessible.
Regardless, restorers can't be choosers, so if it must be done ... it has to be done. Let's pray for a miracle or two!
Enjoy the video.
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Music Credits: Down With Your Getup - Mini Vandals (KZbin Studio Audio Library)
#tuberadios #antiqueradio #radiorestoration
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[@DerekHerbst747]

Confession time: I have one of these in my workshop which is a stalled project. All because of the access to the voltage regulator transistors. You're a brave man!!!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Ouch! That’s a tough one to remove.

[@DerekHerbst747]

I'm not looking forward to it..

[@electronicsoldandnew]

try add it underneath

[@greggaieck4808]

Electronics old and new you are good at electronics and restoreing shortwave receivers

[@DavidTipton101]

Wow, that board was there to stay, I cannot imagine why they built it that way, maybe they didn't expect it to fail in the perceived lifetime. Good job circumventing it 👍🙂

[@electronicsoldandnew]

You’re probably right. They built these things to last, but (as we know from experience), nothing lasts forever.

[@xyredmax]

@@electronicsoldandnew I dont think they built these to last, they just built them not to be repaired LOL

[@electronicsoldandnew]

😊

[@michaelmoldenhauer7829]

Obrigado! Now my Satellit 600 works again perfectly. I didn't expect, how easily it was to get a new IC 601. Therefore some years ago I killed the base of T601 in order to get any sound. I got one for 1.96€. 😊

[@electronicsoldandnew]

👍

[@greggaieck4808]

Electronics old and new your Grundig salellit 650 pro is so awesome

[@EsotericArctos]

I noticed the Video was labelled pt.1 I am just being pedantic of course 🙂 You are getting through all the little quirks. If I ever need a Grundig expert, I will have to look up your videos 🙂

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Thanks for that. Just corrected it 😊

[@EsotericArctos]

@@electronicsoldandnew You're so quick off the mark. 🙂. Looking forward to the next video

[@electronicsoldandnew]

👍

[@johnburns6422]

Having seen the video i pray my 36 year old satellit 650 international keeps on going or i will have another rough landing at Madeira airport this time with a Grundig and a prayer book in my hands , brillliant work as always you are very methodological in your fault finding work , take care

[@electronicsoldandnew]

If you have a grundig on you, you don’t need a prayer book 😊 It’s a blessed device on its own.

[@sincerelyyours7538]

There's an old saying in Field Engineering that goes "Fix the simple problems first, the more complicated ones will often disappear on their own." That's because sometimes complicated problems are caused by one or more simple ones not having received their due attention. (Especially true of 1960s to '80s computer equipment, but I digress.) While you were lamenting your disappearing audio problem I was working on a problem with a game that my wife likes to play with her students. I blamed a small DC motor for the trouble and finding it unavailable at my usual outlets I ordered a not-quite-the-right-sized replacement. I had to modify the enclosure a bit to fit it, but once that was done I tested the repair and the game worked like new. Then I tested the bad motor and it, too, worked. So what did I fix? Probably just a bad solder joint left in by the factory. Sometimes even the simple problems will get you. Nice repair on this radio despite the difficulties!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

I agree. That sort of thing has definitely happened to me before.

[@greggaieck4808]

Electronics old and new me and my cousin went today to a Swap meet June 19 20 22 Sunday morning in Milwaukee

[@jdmccorful]

Lookin good! Enjoyed watching and learning. Thanks!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

pleasure

[@antoniojustodasilva3260]

Another excellent repair video, the access to that board was really a pain, thank you for sharing this videos and your knowledge and enthusiasm.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

My pleasure

[@greggaieck4808]

Electronics old and new your utube videos are awesome

[@mattvoce1091]

I’m very happy that just by coincidence I just picked up a beautiful example of this radio, as well. Complete with all the original manuals and documents. I haven’t turned it on will wait for some spare time and use my dim bulb. The coincidence is remarkable, now I have a video guide as well. I’d appreciate if you could let me know where to get the service manual for this beast of a set. I never thought I’d have a radio like this!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

I got the best version of the service manual from hifiengine.com

[@waynethompson8416]

This video brought back memories to me! I was working in a consumer repair shop and got a JVC "box" to repair. It was a TV, AM, FM radio and Cassette Player/Recorder. I figured out rather quickly what was wrong with the unit, and the "offending part" was located on the second of about 5 circuit boards stacked one over the other. I guess it was to save money, but rather than use board-mounted connectors to carry the signals from board to board, they soldered wires and coax from board to board. Some of the wires and coax went from the second board to the 4th board, and of course, on the 4th board they were easily accessible near the edge of the board, but on the board I needed to work on it was in the center of the board. There wasn't enough room to get a soldering iron to unsolder it, so I ended up having to write down which wire went where from which board to which other board, etc. It was a nightmare, but I was correct, replaced the offending part, and put it all back together again. Worked like a champ after that. I checked everything too, TV, radio, and Cassette Player/Recorder. I never want to see anything like that again! You did great on this one...keep up the excellent work!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

👍 Thanks

[@johnturner9239]

Well done Manuel,you made that look easy.Loking forward to next installment.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

The power of video editing makes it look easy 😊

[@electronicsoldandnew]

The power of video editing makes it look easy 😊

[@AndrewBryantPianoTuner]

Seriously excellent video

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Thank you

[@nigelbrockwell6237]

You have scared me enough from owning one of these radios. That bottom board removal is a nightmare. I hope that audio problem doesn't reappear, but if it does you will have to do voltage checks on the track side of the board. I'm impressed at the motorised tuning, it's not really needed, but it does look great. I will watch next time to see how things progress.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

ok. The motorised tuning is actually more important than one might think. You see, when we tune a receiver, you usually tune all the stages simultaneously, like the Oscillator, the RF, and the mixer stage. In this case, the digital tuning does a great job of setting the oscillator, but does absolutely nothing to the other circuits unless you tune them manually or use the auto function. To be honest, my opinion is still being formed on this issue. I’m not actually sure I like it, but time will tell 😊

[@k.oldewurtel4261]

Hi Manuel, thumbs-up for finding of a wrong resistor value in a GRUNDIG circuit diagram! I appreciate all your videos regarding repairing old radios - with and without tubes. I own as well a couple of GRUNDIG Satellit receivers which will be restored when I'm retired in a few months... The more complex circuit in the 650 Pro is very likely a substitute for the thermistor R639 by using the temperature depending voltage of the diode D604. My Satellit 600 Professional has the same issue like Ricardo mentioned, the display did not work as expected. It is nearly blank I'm looking forward to the next episodes! THX Kassen

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Hope these videos help with your restorations 👍

[@k.oldewurtel4261]

BTW: In the schematic of the Satellit 600 the R679 has the correct value with 4,7 Ohms

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Ha! That’s great news. Now I can at least know that my convoluted logic was correct.

[@ricardoaliasdelatorre6836]

This is going forward Manuel , mine 650 is waiting for an amount of courage from me to start the repair, mine still works the preselector, but has some other big issues : like the 8888 display .I think that italian page contains some value info about this awesome receiver .Keep on my friend & be carefull (😉I know you are, gentle pushing the boards..) those bakelite boards are demmon charged & cracks in a breeze.The italian colleague watchout about it, and some undesirable conductive effect between traces.Congratulations.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Thanks for the tips 👍

[@josealeixes2861]

Interessante este rádio nas mão de um bom cirurgião parabéns

[@electronicsoldandnew]

obrigado 😊

[@greengrayradio1394]

Interesting radio, Manuel! The motorised tuning is a bit special. And, I believe the resistor value in the radio was correct, a typo in the schematic. Your analysis and comparison with the other Grundig proves this. As for service friendliness, well, leaves a bit to be desired, I also think..

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Absolutely. The most difficult board I’ve worked on yet.

[@retro_tech]

Great video! Maybe a bit mean from me, but there was definitely a bit of a comedic aspect in you struggling with the board removal in fast forward. 😅

[@electronicsoldandnew]

I wasn’t lighting 😊 In fact, the music was to cover up the swearing.

[@dayleedwards3521]

Older transistor silicon dies can be "poisoned" by the encapsulation, causing intermittent faults. You likely cleared the fault by heating it. Transistors are cheap, best to just replace any suspect examples. A squirt of freeze spray is very handy to "shock" components into fault mode, or sometimes out of fault mode, especially semiconductors. This save a huge amount of time.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

👍

[@jean-pierredesoza2340]

Hi Manuel, I feel your pain... I'm still slowly progressing with my Satellite 2100, with exactly the same symptom. It has become completely quiet after having played some sound. I use an external amplified loudspeaker as a signal tracer, and I have been able to progress and get sound from the "hot" lug of the volume potentiometer, and then after the next transistor, it's still OK.So I'll continue without precipitation to the next stage. I have had the same dilemma : I have been able to "unfold" the audio board, but it's still attached by a dozen of wires to the radio. It's very uncomfortable, but safe, so let's keep it so ! It's funny how I can relate your steps and mine ! So fingers crossed, I'm sure there will be a happy ending, at some point.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Let’s hope we both get great results. Good luck.

[@tubeDude48]

I feel your pain! 👍

[@electronicsoldandnew]

😊

[@greggaieck4808]

Electronics old and new my other hobby is lisn to music records and CDs and fmstreo on my Yamaha reciver

[@__Dude_]

There's another little error on the schematic: around the rectifier diodes there are three capacitors (C) and one "resistor" (R)!. I certainly enjoyed this episode, since I could almost feel your relief.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Didn’t see that one. Thanks 😊

[@DerekHerbst747]

Oh, and that drive belt will have you speaking words that will make the Pope cross himself twice!!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

😊

[@maartenschapendonk6345]

Was the tuning indicator needle moving on your voice there in the end of the video. I watch your video's with great pleasure.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

No, I saw that 😊 and wondered the same thing. It was a station that was alternating in reception because the antena wasn’t the best, and the volume was all the way down.

[@greggaieck4808]

Electronics old and new my hobbys are painting pictures and lisining to shortwave and ssb iam thinking about getting my ham license I have 4 shortwave receivers

[@cwradio4571]

It makes me nervous watching you remove the boards. Wow

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Yes, I know 😊 I felt it too

[@kevkabluebird1032]

Lucky you! At least you can sort of repair these "old" Grundigs. Lots of components you can replace if broken. I have some modern radios and it seems like everything is now some fancy "IC" which cant be replaced once its obsolete. Oh and by the way... finally got a sweep generator which does sweep and stuff but without marker/trigger-output. Do you think it still can be used for FM alignment or is a trigger mandatory? Thanks for sharing your insights and hopefully you'll get your Satellit 800 Millennium soon! Mayhaps a broken one for repair? Best wishes and stay safe!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

You don’t need a marker if your sweep is linear and you start and end at equal distances from the centre point. If you sweep from 10.5 to 10.7MHz, then 10.7 is in the middle.

[@electrosoundaust]

Much like the National Panasonic R100. The board is mounted in such a way it needs almost all the wiring desoldered, and as my father found desoldering removes the very fragile traces. These things are sent to try us. Remind me NOT to get one of these radios😄!

[@electronicsoldandnew]

We get them because we’re suckers for punishment 😊

[@electrosoundaust]

Just watching Shango repair the Chanel Master - O"Boy. So much trouble, so little radio.😵‍💫

[@electronicsoldandnew]

😊

[@nixraff7802]

01:37sec: 😎 the replacement bass speaker is from _Visaton_ , and costs around 9€

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Thanks. I nearly got it right 😊

[@nixraff7802]

@@electronicsoldandnew Interesting video from your side 🙃 I bought mine in 1986, the other Satellit 650 twin in the colour gemini-grey ( _gemini_ is Latin and means _twins_ ), and it costs here in Germany 1498,- Deutsche Mark - a horrendous amount if you are still an apprentice. 🤪 😇 I see that you used a replacement kit. BTW, the speaker you mentioned is called *VIS 4880 broadband system 100 mm* with 30 watts.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

Thanks again for that detail. I was actually about to ask you 😊

[@scruffdogmillionaire]

Interesting video! I'm glad I never attempted to remove the boards in my 600 when swapping the switch. I had periodic audio cut-out (only for a few seconds in the minutes after power-up). Suspecting it was related to a scratchy volume pot, I sprayed in some contact cleaner and so far the situation has improved. Also, how do you test resistors while still on the PCB?

[@electronicsoldandnew]

most of them you can measure fine. for those that you can’t, I desolder one leg using a solder wick, and then straighten the leg to the centre of the hole, ensuring that it doesn’t actually touch the solar pad. It’s tricky but can be done.

[@scruffdogmillionaire]

@@electronicsoldandnew That's a good technique. I ended up practically re-building the audio board on a B&O radio a couple weeks ago chasing a biasing issue. I figured since I was taking them out to measure, I might as well put new ones in. And after all that, it turned out to be a dirty treble pot.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

👍

[@danielsaturnino5715]

Errors in schematics can be a real bummer...

[@electronicsoldandnew]

True. You can’t be sure if you’re being tricked or clever 😊

[@lennartbenschop656]

I wonder how they managed to make this huge frequency span on the shortwave band preselector (1.6-26.1 MHz). You can only do this if you tune the capacitors and inductors simultaneously. Shortwave is a single tuning range on the preselector, right? There is even an International version that goes up to 30 MHz.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

You’re right. It is a huge stretch. Usually they used 5 or 6 sections, with band spread on each.

[@mackfisher4487]

The problem is there are none of those funny glass bottles with little lights in them.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

True. These are rather dull 😊

[@frededdie-quartey2906]

When you get to replacing the preselector drive belt, would you mind showing the removal/replacement process?

[@electronicsoldandnew]

You want to have a good laugh, don’t you? 😊 Sure, I’ll show how I do it. Let’s hope I don’t make too much of a mess in the process 😊

[@frededdie-quartey2906]

@@electronicsoldandnew Thanks for ‘taking one for the team’ 😃😃

[@electronicsoldandnew]

😊

[@stanleyluruti5809]

Am interested to buy

[@radio-ged4626]

Great job so far. The transistor bias loop is a bit concerning. Why would it start working after re-soldering the transistor? Either a dry joint or a transistor that has been fixed through applying heat I would guess. But if it's been working for hours then it may well be OK. My fingers are crossed for you, not because the transistor is hard to get hold of, more because it's hard to get hold of in the chassis - if you see what I mean. I really like the motorised tuner - very smart. I'm looking forward to the next episode.

[@electronicsoldandnew]

I think desoldering the transistor may have cleaned up some residue on the legs. I’ve seen this happen before, but much prefer a definite fault to a ghost failure.