Nikon D850 vs D5 - Focus & 3D Tracking

[@NXDL25]

My autofocus never shifted away from Stephanie

[@_rhapsodist]

his neither, that's why he is giggling in every video together with her :P

[@harryliu2008]

Lol😂

[@pablo-zn1mg]

IKR he's got a thing for asian looking chicks.

[@gearsau]

Same here

[@chiefdenis]

lol, all these comments

[@charlierivera5725]

Just recently switched from Nikon Z6ii to Nikon D5 and is unbelievable how good for sports is the D5. I am not a professional photographer but love to shoot anything really. I do miss the flip screen and a few other features like EVF but Love the D5.

[@impianotespaul]

Her smile lights up the world.

[@CraigLincoln1]

I shot a high school football game last night to test a D850 and a D810 on a field with only four light poles. I tested with a Nikon 2.8 70-200mm and a 24-70mm because they are a part of the holy trinity of lenses. If you are well positioned, you can often get plays that come right at you, just like the papers want. I shoot continuous AF-C in single point when the play is far downfield to ensure that the AF stays on the one player. Likewise AF-C Group AF was right on when the ball was closer. I shot AF-C 9-pt or 25-pt dynamic with great results when I can be within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage . I reversed lenses and bodies at half time. The D850 nailed fous 9 out of 10 times, 8/10 in the shadowy end zones. The D810 was 7 or 8 out of 10. Try 3-D just once for close, mid, or long range in these cases and you would never do it again. The D810 nails focus 10/10 time under college stadium lights or daylight. I got the same results in dimly lit gyms for basketball and volleyball with the D810. 3D BAD. I don't know anyone who uses 3D tracking for sports because 3D zeros in on the contrast of the referees' black and white shirts. Sidenote 1: The D810 ISO 3600 is grainy. The D850 is cleaner at 6400 ISO and usable to 12k ISO. The D5 ISO is great at 52k. Sidenote 2: The D850 30 frames per second was perfect for getting extra point kicks with the ball just leaving the foot. Sidenote 3: Matt used 3D Auto-Focus with a model bouncing towards him. I have never shot that sport.

[@mattboggs6304]

I've shot sports for about 7 years, and I agree, the 3D tracking on Nikon cameras just wasn't worth using for sports. I tried it both with the D810 and D5, and went immediately back to either single point or 9 point AF. In 2020, it seems better with the Sony A9ii, but honestly I still prefer the good old Nikon single or 9 point AF way.

[@1melahat]

I noticed people complaining about Nikon's 3D autofocus setting in the comments so I thought I would add something to the discussion. I used to to not like using 3D in my D3s and now my D5 but later learned I was not using it correctly. This is very important, with the meter on and the center point focus point lit up, you must place the lit up focus point on your subject then press and hold down the shutter release half way or press and hold down the af-on button. the 3D has now locked on to the subject and will follow it. I never knew this tid bit of info and thus when I used 3D it wouldn't work correctly. I'm not saying everyone who doesn't like 3D doesn't already know this but some probably don't know.

[@dlaudiojogja]

yes I have encountered a small focus point in the center, but in which side of the setting I forgot, now I haven't found it, my body is Nikon D500

[@johanstam3602]

I would like to see Matt do some runs

[@marioarias9942]

😅

[@jolotschka]

and kicks ;-)

[@mattcude6917]

he would like to do some runs too.

[@n3st0jr]

i don't know if I'd like to see it but yeah, he should 😅

[@khmershow1684]

It would me sick!

[@brb345620]

Matt,May I suggest that the focus comparison you did (D5 vs D850) has more to do with the battery voltage than the camera itself. You can hardly expect to throw heavy glass elements around as fast with 7 volts as you can with a 10.8 volt battery. Try it again but with the battery grip.

[@thingsdemystified]

I don't think it has to do with the lens. The camera body itself couldn't figure out which AF point to use. You can see this when the squares don't follow her. If it were a lens speed issue, the focus should have caught up with her eventually, but it never did. Also, the lens isn't moving that much.

[@devilalwayscry]

@@thingsdemystified People talking about the battery voltage/grip add on d850 will improve the af performance. You are talking about lens, form which planet are you from?

[@cooloox]

Excellent video, Matt. Thanks to both you and Stephanie for making it.

[@streetgato9697]

I'm not surprised, had the same experience with the D810 action tracking comparison with the D4

[@simon_patterson]

Terrific test that looked and sounded great! And, most importantly, it seemed to demonstrate the difference in autofocus performance between the two cameras. Bravo!

[@simon_patterson]

Larry Luke the specs say they are the same.

[@fghjohn]

does the additional battery grip help? since it boosts the frames from 7 to 9

[@TheSuzshep]

I think the problem here is the 3d af - i never use it. I find it pretty unreliable even on my d5. it is ok for slow moving subjects . you would be far better to put d9 or the group on her face and hold it there . I would love to see that comparison .

[@jasonspannagel798]

Ian S agree 100%. I tried 3D AF for about 5 minutes of one event and said NOPE...back to group area AF or D9 or D25

[@TheFykle]

Exactly...i never use 3D , its awfully erratic and unreliable

[@4IN14094]

To give Nikon some credibility, they even state it in the manual pg.99-100 for 3D tracking: "with subjects that are moving erratically from side to side (e.g., tennis players)" they also stated that if the subjects goes out of frame the tracking will fail. That said, on a D850 you have to be more careful on what AF mode to use, and it will still be slightly worse then the flagships like a 1Dx 2 or the D5.

[@jonneymendoza]

This is where the A9 runs rings around the nikons, its 3d tracking is out of this world

[@CraigLincoln1]

I don't know anyone who uses 3D tracking for sports because 3D zeros in on the contrast of the referees' black and white shirts. Try AF-C in single point when far away. AF-C Group AF when closer. AF-C 9-pt or 25-pt dynamic when very close.

[@juliusguillermo222]

I doubt Nikon wanted the D850 to compete against one of their own. It is still an impressive body as you said. This video is useful for sports or action photographers if they were thinking of picking the D850 up as their workhorse vs. something more expensive like the D5 or equivalent body from other manufacturers. Hope you could also test it further tracking race cars or planes at an airshow to get really exhaustive with the AF and Tracking tests.

[@ChrisDavisClicksByChris]

I would love to see this same test, or your thoughts (Matt), on the D4s vs the D850. I'm in the market for a new body, and leaning towards the D4s (need really good AF for fast action dogs).

[@scriptosaurusrex]

Hi Matt. I just want to add another vote for doing the test with the d5 battery in the d850 grip too (at 9fps happily). The d5 battery of course delivers more voltage, which is what allows the d850 to actuate the shutter faster. My d700 (anecdotally) focusses better with the grip and the higher voltages that brings, than with the standard battery. I could imagine the processor to work faster as well as the body simply being able to drive the lens motor faster improving AF performance. Thanks

[@blakeparry1983]

Hi Matt, Out of interest, did you do any testing of the AF that wasnt using the 3D lock on AF? E.g. holding your point over the subject and then seeing if the AF keeps up - this is often how i shoot sports rather than relying on tracking. Also, be interested to see if the D850 in crop mode focus performance is the same as the D500 Some reviewers have said that the D500 isnt as good as the D5.... so maybe they lifted the system from the D500 instead?

[@mattgranger]

+Blake Parry D500 is also same AF system as D5 - but it's the whole camera package that matters

[@danneukirch4486]

This would be interesting to test. I've never really used 3d tracking, always single point, or 9 point. I should try the 3d though but I like control.

[@sonalakadesilva2349]

Thank you Matt for your review. I own a D4s for the past 4 years and sometimes not happy with the continues focusing. Also sometimes it struggles to hunt in low light. I use the holy trinity lenses. Any recommendations that I should get the D5 in replacement of D4s. Kind of reluctant to switch to Z6 as the focus tracking is not as good as D4s.

[@antonoat]

Great illustration, cheers for sharing this Matt, great job.PS always enjoy your videos!

[@DaniCamp67]

Boy that gal sure is photogenic!

[@jerryfaircloth]

Well there were just too many differences for this to be a good test. A better test would be to make sure the D850 had the grip with the EN EL18 battery so both cameras would be using the same voltage. You also should set the D850 to use an image size as close as possible to the much smaller D5 sensor resolution. Its logical moving 45MP around vs 20MP using the same CPU will be slower. It would also be very interesting to test it against a D500 where the buffer will not fill up and has a similar sensor resolution. So how bout a quick test like that Matt?

[@Nickkettt]

Great Job Matt. I want the same test for tracking D5 - D500 !!

[@techassyst]

How does the D850 tracking compare with the D500 ?

[@lionkiller8752]

Con qué cámara grabaste tu video ??

[@pfdcaw]

Great video. D5 is good sport camera. I’d like to see landscape test and portrait 👍🏻

[@mattgranger]

Very fair comment - they are different cameras. And where the D5 shines in some areas, the D850 sure does in others.

[@rishisarangi]

good one Matt . really helped view through the hype of d850.

[@JesseBlough]

Matt, did you try the same tests with the 3d tracking watch area set to wide or changing the focus tracking subject motion to erratic? Curious to see how much changing these settings affects the result.

[@chocloditelensman]

Good point. It was an erratic moving subject so it should be on this setting.

[@tonyfabris7259]

To do a fair test why didn’t you wait to use the extra more powerful grip? That would have put the two cameras on a more levelled playing field . If the 850 performed better than the d5 in every aspect than there would be much point to continue the production of the d5.

[@Snerkler1]

Nice review. Will you be comparing the D850 against the D750 at all as I'd like to know how the AF compares, and the shutter noise actually?

[@longrider9551]

Matt I really enjoyed this test and I would like to know why you did not do a similar type test when you tested the A9?

[@hankdinardo4308]

Yes Matt but with a smaller battery. What was you shutter speed because the exposures looked different.

[@Crewonephotography]

What focusing mode were you using? Looks like 3D on the D850 and Auto on the D5? But I can't imagine you would use a different mode on each.

[@mattgranger]

+Crew One Photography Same settings across the board

[@createthisdotcom]

when you hand held in the park, did you turn 3d AF off, or did you leave it on? Sorry, I'm unclear on that.

[@hitmanhart22]

this was a nice test. Great work Matt. What's your thought when compared to a Sony A9

[@robwilliams2735]

I found the same with the D500, meant to be the same D5 AF system but 3D tracking was always poor.

[@rajivdancestudiords9683]

Good review matt

[@jaimeduncan6167]

Hi, same result with the D500. It could be related to the Battery, maybe the processor is running faster. Maybe if you happen to have access to the grip you may want to chek. Exelent findings. The other issue is the number of pixels: maybe the processor has less free time to devote to the AF. Steph is simply great. It was a fantastic person for the colaborations. She is not only super beatiful, she is atletic, smart and good sport and the camera loves her.. Dificult to want anything else for a Photography channel.

[@mihonomoto]

I love how you test it Matt, this reveal more than ads do, great work! BTW, the girl is cute.

[@jochenliebig1562]

Thanks so much for doing this. Given that the D850 has the 'same' autofocus system as the D5, this came as a surprise to me. Question though: How does this compare to the D500 or even the Sony A6500? I only occasionally need to track fast moving objects, so the D5 feels like overkill to me. And how do they compare to the A7Rii? I know, you can't studio test just everything, but usually your intuitive feeling wouldn't be so wrong.

[@jrulison]

The D850 has a setting for Autofocus called erratic. When she was doing the scramble did you have that enable?

[@KaoukabiJaouad]

Great video, you should do another where you compare the D5 and the D850 with the new grip, maybe that 9 fps mode, boost also the autofocus acquisition and the tracking .....

[@docpearson]

I think you missed something Matt. You did not mention how many megapixels the D8 50 was set on doing the tracking. As you know the D5 has half the megapixels and therefore can work and record quicker. If you set the amount of megapixels in the D850 to equal what is in the D5 then possibly it can track just as fast as the D5. can you try that please.

[@nbc747]

Great video, fun and informative!

[@epf2k]

Awesome video. Could you do the same with the Sony a7RM3?

[@Thegamerkid320]

Hello Matt Did you used the same lens? Is there any chance that the lens affect the test? just a thought

[@johnsmalldridge6356]

I wonder if the high megapixel count of the D850 just shows the out of focus shots more than the lower megapixel D5?

[@mattgranger]

+John Smalldridge That's why is showed the actual tracking through viewfinder.

[@Jon_Godfrey]

Matt, you should have tested on the medium RAW so the image size is close. They share the same processor but the D850 is processing several times the data so logically will be slower. It's the same processor doing three times to workload so lagging is logical.

[@cooloox]

Jon Godfrey Well, not really. The D5 is taking a hell of a lot more shots, so it cuts both ways. The AF couldn't keep up, simple as that. Also, the D850 had to be shot as jpgs because the buffer was too small; is a 45.7MP jpg larger than a 20.8MP raw file? Probably not.

[@thisis5123]

I just have to say this because it's my strong opinion, and i think it matters for anyone concerned with AF performance of the D850 or D5 or other Nikons. The Default AF setup of the D850, is probably more adjusted towards static, or less erratically moving subjects. There are settings that adjust the behavior of the 3D Tracking. If this test had been done with the " Blocked shot AF Response" set to 1 instead of the default of 3, along with the subject motion set to erratic, than I think this test could have gone differently. It only makes sense that Nikon would set the default settings to slightly different purposes between the D5 and D850. If this had been tested under different circumstances with the default settings, than its possible the D850 would have out performed with a less erratically moving subject. However, a setting change makes a world of difference, as these cameras come out of the box designed to do different things. They should both be able to match each other ability when setup properly. However I could be wrong, and maybe the D850 is still handicapped in some way. We won't know this for sure however until someone who owns these cameras tests them with different settings.

[@thingsdemystified]

It's not that the D850 is handicapped. The D5 just has far more processing power for its AF system.

[@IkoPB]

Really impressive! I have the D5 and the D4s. What kind of focus system do you think is better for weightlifting, or training sports like CrossFit? Group, 3D or 159 points.... thanks Matt!

[@hchunesq]

Could you do this test again with D850 using a battery grip and EN-EL18a battery? The difference of the focus tracking performances of these camera might be due to their different batteries. Update: I've just noticed that someone else already mentioned the battery difference.

[@Raysnature]

I'm sure he will do but the grip is not available yet. (As of 23/9/17.)

[@zagan1]

The grip is $1,000 usd as well.

[@hchunesq]

I hope he will. Anyway, I have a MB-D18 grip for D850, but do not have an EN-EL18a/b battery nor its charger. photos.app.goo.gl/wdH1SixcGbCMLdYp1

[@drezzzerhere5752]

Hypatiakitten The battery grip is available since a week, I bought it in a camera store on the 17th..

[@Raysnature]

Drezzzer Here. That's good to know. Here in the UK the camera is still pre order only until the end of this month! :-(

[@Snerkler1]

@Matt Granger did you fine tune the lenses on both cameras? As other people have mentioned it would be interesting to see results with the grip and more powerful battery as there's a good chance that this will make a difference. How do they compare using single point AF-C rather than 3D tracking? I've never had great success with 3D tracking with Nikons, but never had any of the flagship models (D4, D5)

[@jakebechtproductions3850]

I have a D850 and would like to know the exact settings for this test. That would be great. I am trying to learn best settings for action shots.

[@keikaikakupaa]

I just gotta say that it is rather difficult to be able to kick with that much weight on her feet - that's quite impressive.Were any shots done without the shoes on? to see the difference her movement as well?

[@minusinfinity6974]

What AF mode is he using, I'd be using group or D25, didn't look like either. Also how did they compare at same res. Resample D850 to 20MP or D5 to 46MP. With smaller battery D850 will not drive lens as fast at least with superteles, not sure about the 70-200.

[@WhittyPics]

Curious did you try tweaking the focus settings? It can be tweaked to make it more responsive to erratic moving subjects.

[@guilhermerocha1555]

Hi Matt! First, let me say your videos are incredible and I've been binge wachting your whole channel! But let me ask you something. I'm into portraiture and leaving my Canon T6 for a new system. Eventually I do landscape and some video, just for fun. I am trying to decide between Fuji X-T2 and Nikon D500. Honestly, I am leaning towards Fuji. But it feels like every time I think I've made my decision and I'm reaching out my arm to get it, I read some opinion like "the D500 low light performance is better" or "Nikon's focus system is amazing" and automatically take a step back. My plan is to pick the body and one or two primes, like 35mm and 50mm. Which one do you think I should get?

[@mattgranger]

+Guilherme Rocha try them both, see what you like

[@guilhermerocha1555]

The mains problem with going with fx body is that the lenses are considerably more expensive.

[@veneratedmortal4369]

Was that in 3d focus? The 850 missed every shot in one at the end with good light! I shoot alot of wildlife with my d750 and i never have to worry about it being out of focus in good light like that.

[@i.setyawan]

No matter what camera/lenses you want to review in the future, please do keep Steph.

[@saffronfalcon]

I get it your d5 is better. now mail me that no good d850 of yours and i'll send u a thank you card.

[@blueyephotog9527]

I wonder if an upgrade to the D5 will be coming out soon.. especially since I need one.

[@D800Lover]

Does the file size differences matter? There must be a *LOT* more processing with the D850.

[@iiAhamd]

great info very interesting would it make a difference if you have the grip on the D850? or could it be that your D850 is have a problem in the focusing system? thanks and keep it up!!!

[@vasiliosdinis5639]

Thanks for clearing this up Matt. You nailed it. 👌🏼🙌🏼 AF and high ISO is important to me so D5 it is.

[@joeextraknow2854]

Matt: both use separated dedicated processor to process AF. So, if you use full frame of D850 which is 47 Mpix though. You should have set D850 to DX mode that is 20 Mpix, which is apple-to-apple comparing with D5. I think it is fair to say...

[@EssenceOfWild1987]

Matt, please do a comparison of AF tracking between d850 and d500...

[@janosnemeth917]

Would be interesting to see the same tests with the Z6 and with the Sony A9 mk2. Is that possible?

[@asifmatin1]

+Matt Granger Mate what mode were you using in AF... 3D tracking?

[@mrLebesgueintegral]

Great video, thank you. As that was 3 years ago, does anyone know if later firmware updates have improved the tracking performance of the D850? I have been planning to get the D850 for bird photography.

[@Razzer0693]

oh man im in the same boat now! did you finally get it? im hunting for a d500 but its nowhere available new or used in Goa,India

[@robcole5246]

How do you think it would compare to the D500?

[@EasyPost99]

Awesome review . Thanks for the video ! :)

[@romiemiller3093]

I'm still using a D800,which works great for me. I want to upgrade to a D850 rather than the Z7ll for three reasons: the D850 is now showing up used in near new condition at significant savings; The battery lasts longer in the D850; and I don't need an adapter to continue using my current lenses.

[@cactustweeter2890]

Matt why do you think the D5 is better at tracking fast-moving subjects? Lower resolution thus less to process, or do you think it has a faster processor, or something else?

[@wanfanelle]

I hope in your full review you repeat this test with various Raw Settings 24mp etc. I don't know if writing 46mp could be contributing to focus lag or not. I would be interested to know though =)

[@sadaharanjantagorkheydai9692]

I am really dissapoint with focus tracking of d850 d5 seems look good thank you matt!

[@H3XIUS]

This is going to sound like criticism, but I'm really just meaning it as a question. What did you do to remove variables from this to make your claim? Same everything including lens on the different bodies? Was the lens autocalibrated to match each body to fix any front/back focus issues, etc? Mostly I'm asking because I didn't catch you saying what variables you locked down when doing this. Different lenses even if they are the same model have slightly different performance and focus, so it entirely could have been the display lagging and not the lens/AF itself. Not saying it is either, just a possible.

[@mattgranger]

+North Polar yes all of the above, all settings and calibrated lenses

[@1HDBIZ]

I wonder if it would AF better with the optional grip. We already know that the burst rate will be higher, but will it somehow help the AF as well?

[@AlwaysWildCS]

D850 w/ grip and huge 10V battery should have better continuous burst AF, as there's less blackout time (so AF has more time to work).

[@bird271828]

Matt, how does this compare with the 5D Mark IV?

[@mikewinburn]

matt, thanks for posting...question : are you simply using shutter release held down and following her when off tripod, or are you allowing the focus tracking system to follow you assist. around the frame? Lastly, should you use back-button focus, i'm assuming exposure is locked when you press the shutter for the pic and its using center point for exposure? thanks

[@user-tv5dt3nm9y]

Very interesting. The results beg the question of why, the difference in performance? I added my own sound effects...dah dah dah dah....di di di di... for Steph's bionic performance.

[@carerra911]

Thanks Matt, I wonder how to performs against the D500?

[@elvis_chen]

I like to see Sony A9 to join this competition :D

[@kozz1984]

Can you do a comparison vs 5d mark IV?

[@Weddings-by-the-universal]

JR definitely canon will win..

[@mallred4347]

Why - The Canon is miles & miles behind the D850

[@kozz1984]

I think the dual pixel autofocus still beats the d850

[@jasonhowells7758]

May i ask why you put the D5 against the D850 without the grip? Will you do a retest when you have the grip because obviously with the grip you get more fps and the focus tracking will be alot faster.

[@mattgranger]

because this is how the cameras come - ad the grip is not available for sale. So any reviews you have seen, are on the same grounds

[@Scottyman99]

Exactly the test I was looking for. Could you do the same comparing the D850 with the D500?

[@TravisNutley]

Thanks for the video. How would you compare the autofocus of the D850 to the D500? I have a D500 now and a D800, and wonder when a good time to upgrade would be.

[@FOXOHIO]

Did you set both focus actuation settings the same. You can set it to fast to slow in settings.

[@mattgranger]

+FOXOHIO yep

[@shitdick95]

I would really like to know if it’s just a software issue, firmware issue, or lack of voltage that would cause it to be slower. After all it is supposed to have identical AF systems. Watching this vid makes me think this could be correctable, and close the gap between the amount of shots lost to out of focus frames.

[@pabloj.barillas8983]

I know this was mentioned in the comments, but this test should also be done with the D850 + MB-18 (once released) + EN-EL18b vs D5.

[@shubhabrataadhikary6565]

Also did you use exact same lens for both ?

[@mattgranger]

+Shubhabrata Adhikary As I said, same lens and settings, scenario and conditions. As close as I could get outside of a lab

[@MyAmericanMorning]

I noticed the D850 buffer filled up and shots slowed down at 20 shots or so and you switched to jpeg. I thought the buffer could hold 51 raw shots before slowing down. Am I wrong? Or maybe ... do you not have an XQD card in the D850? Or maybe ... the 51 raw shots only happen with the vertical grip attached? Or maybe ... what sounded like 20 shots was a lot more.

[@mattgranger]

+My American Morning I had fastest XQD installed

[@MyAmericanMorning]

And that was about three seconds before it slowed down ... which means about twenty shots before shooting slows from the 7 shots per second. I guess I misunderstood the specs.

[@blakeparry1983]

probably shooting uncompressed raw, in which case the buffer is 29 on the D850 and 102 on the D5

[@KidLexDC]

Someone already said it but I’d like to know what the result would be with the grip and bigger battery. I have a sneaky feeling that the performance will be closer if the processors are getting more power. That may be one way the squeezed out so much more battery life out of the 850 than the 500 even at more than twice the resolution.

[@miikasalin5784]

How about Matt if you do the same test with D500 and D850?

[@ryanthomas9306]

This was really cool to watch

[@joakimsundberg4528]

Great hard working model! As for the cameras I suspect it´s the same as when i went from a D800 to the D4s, a lot less MP but they are all at home!

[@pianonumb]

I think its worth rewatching this without sound, id still give it a thumbs up. Stephanie is just a serotonin boost

[@ChillWill9311]

What if you used the hand grip with the extra battery on the D850 ? Do you think it's performance would have been better ?

[@kerder8660]

The problem with this test we don't know nothing about inner settings on both cameras if I'm not mistaken one is with grip another is not & different voltage between both of them than resolution come in & processor workout... So the whole test is so so... Hehehe just one guy idea

[@mattgranger]

+ker der Settings identical.

[@I_asked_alex]

Matt you should probably try AUTO AFC as it prioritizes face first THEN subject However did you set your D5 and D850 to face track 3d ? or one not the other ? also what was your watch area set too ?

[@tammylindsay5559]

I have a d3200 I've started out with for taking pictures of my own family but I'm looking to start my own buisness and feel like maybe I need something more? I will be doing mostly newborn and family photos. What do u suggest? Would the 850 be too much for what I'm doing?

[@FISHH00KS]

Matt - maybe I missed it, but did you use the same lens and settings? or would that even make a difference? (I could never get my wife to run like Stephanie and I don't want to stand in front of charging cheetah) Thanks

[@mattgranger]

I can’t say for sure - it was years ago. But I assume I did, yeah.

[@ofergigi]

Matt, can you say anything about how D850 AF compares to D500?

[@hagentrondheim3675]

Astonishing result. There is nothing better than a real world test