UPCYCLING: Power Of Vulcanus For QUALITY CIRCUITS | 33 | Factorio SPACE AGE

[@aebisdecunter]

DocJade and Nilaus posting within an hour? This is a good day.

[@EvilCooky]

Maybe you should add an overflow for the blue quality circuits. So once your rockets are full they will be recycled, too. This will boost your production of higher qualities

[@eliasscheunemann3525]

Cant wait to see how extreme mega bases will be in the end

[@dominikvonlavante6113]

I don't actually expect them to be that massive. Productivity per building has increased massively

[@feelsfine6163]

@@dominikvonlavante6113 Well that kinda only means that UPS per science improves, no?

[@eliasscheunemann3525]

@@dominikvonlavante6113 and thats exactly the reason, just imagine the SPM we could reach now

[@billedwardz]

@@feelsfine6163 Massively, apparently. I've been seeing people say 1m spm is the new 10k spm.

[@ronflexronflex7530]

2 huge limitations for SPM I think: Ups like before, but now landing pad throughput

[@darknewt9959]

25:40 "As always with things in Factorio, time is your best friend" I mean, I can see why you'd blank out any memory of Gleba... I spent an hour there and decided to go and play Halo for a month instead.

[@mrkv4k]

My Gleba built is fugly and I mean really Fugly. But it somewhow works. And it works so well, that I didn't have to change it much since I've build it. But I am upscaling now and have to rebuild or add to it and every time I try, I end up doing something else.

[@incription]

If you get 300% productivity on blue circuits then you can upcycle them 1:1 to legendary then recycle to get legendary green red and blue circuits for free!

[@brendanmassaro9595]

I feel like this is going to be patched eventually

[@TimDrogin]

​@@brendanmassaro9595 ai think this is the way it was intended. Having productivity capped at 300% just means you don't lose/gain during recycling

[@Slimefellaa]

​@@brendanmassaro9595 Well... you need like MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of science to get the blue circuits to 300% productivity

[@aebisdecunter]

@@Slimefellaa You can get to it with prod modules at lv 13

[@snowdrop9810]

​@@aebisdecunter that does really slow down your quality speed though, bt the benefit of it being much sooner propably makes uo

[@random_gamedev_crap]

You can make recyclers output directly into each other (like burner miners) to get rid of stuff quickly, instead of having the steel boxes and red inserters.

[@daricora]

I've ran into clogging issues with that when feeding them off a sushi belt. They were sped up with multiple beacons though

[@pepperbox-ic3oo]

⁠not an issue when u feed only one item that recycles into itself

[@Beechsack]

@@daricora Sushi belts and recyclers are tricky. Inserters will grab an item up to their stack size, toss that into the recycler, and swing back. As long as that item is in the recycler input slot, the inserter will only ever grab that same item off the belt. Non-stack inserters won't wait for a full stack of an item either ; if one doesn't come by in a short period of time, it will toss those in and come back. If your output belts start to back up, the recyclers can't output fast enough, causing the input item to get 'stuck' , causing the inserters to only ever grab the same item. If your input belts then stop moving, the entire thing will to wedge. The best way I have found to prevent clogs is to carefully manage the output lines. Have a dedicated 'trash loop' for each basic item that recycles to nothing. Those recyclers will never clog up, and usually just a few pair of them can eat an entire turbo belt of items, making sure there's always room and and the outputs move.

[@MR0KITTY]

@@daricora It works best when done as like the final step to void out items. Red circuit into a box, into three pairs of recyclers facing eachother, for example.

[@chimmy_jim]

Heh had the same problem on Gleba with the ice filling everything. I just put two recyclers pointed at each other and 2 requester chests throwing in ice. Worked really fast. Great series, thanks!

[@lolapplesauce]

on your ice scrapping build: you could also put the recyclers face to face and they insert into each other so you only need to load one side, still I love how differently and cleverly you design things, I wouldn't have come up with something as nice otherwise

[@Trig2790]

Unfortunately I think that has a chance to jam. At least for a similar build I've made it jammed

[@Tranztopoleez]

@@Trig2790 with only one item type?

[@mijore]

Does not jam with only 1 item

[@MrElectroleon]

This works well and if you are scared of jamming you could even do the burner mining drill loop and have the one you are inputting to just sideload into the loop. Ive destroyed millions of ice and solidfuel on fulgora this way

[@random_gamedev_crap]

You might want to look into the maths of using productivity modules in your uncommon and above crafters. I only have quality in my base normal crafters, then productivity (and speed beacons) in my uncommon and above crafters. I'm not sure on the exacts but it should increase the amount of higher quality circuits you get by providing larger volumes of higher quality ingredients to use in higher quality crafters from upcycling more mid quality red circuits.

[@archer111000]

There’s some math on the wiki that sorted out all the %s for you. Your intuition that some productivity instead of quality only is true!

[@JohnMeinel]

@@archer111000 I found a wiki entry that mentions when you get above X% quality, go for productivity. However, it didn't actually show the base math. And I think it changes dramatically if you are using something like the EM plant with its innate productivity. Do you have references for the actual math?

[@TheMostPiousCorg]

@@JohnMeinel Link to wiki?

[@Bluelink13]

Yeap, at the level of modules Nilaus has IIRC it is optimal to use full production on the production facilities and Quality only on the recyclers

[@archer111000]

@@JohnMeinel I don’t have any math, just that entry on the quality page on the wiki. In my experience most of the stuff on there is just true so I didn’t put any further thought into it than “that agrees with my gut.” I only got into quality grinding this weekend so have not gathered any data myself. There didn’t seem to be any notes on that entry about whether the building productivity bonuses were included or not.

[@xjoke6981]

if u want an exact amount of reciclers to process everything, I derived this formula: y = 4/(4-ax), x is the total productivity (base + productivity), a is the amount of items that stays in the belt (less then 100% if u take out higher quality items, the amount is 100% - the sum of the % of the higher quality u are taking ), y is the multiplier of the amount is entering ( if u have a red belt entering, 30 ITEMS/S and y = 4/3 u will need to consume 40 items/s). if a=1 and x=4 u will need an infinite amount fo reciclers

[@Grz349]

24:43 How many higher tier Red circuits will get stuck in the balancers as the join the main line? 😢 May be worth seeding them with low quality circuits first.

[@Alex-xv6me]

Since Green Circuits are entirely made of lava products you could design it differently by including quality modules in the foundries and sorting ingredients. Could be a fun design challenge

[@NukeMarine]

It's insanely fast. He'd likely build legendary green circuits faster than common green circuits he's making on Nauvis. Big thing is he has throw all the excess lower quality items into the lava cause they build up fast and clog the flow.

[@Vitya47]

@@NukeMarine You cant make quality items from lava.

[@rogercollins239]

​@@Vitya47Yes you can - with Quality modules

[@NukeMarine]

@@Vitya47 Put quality mods in the foundry, and a percentage of output is quality. Try this: on his mass plate blueprint put quality mods in all the item foundries. At the final output, put a splitter to filter out quality items. Then after that filter, and most important, put a splitter on the main output to filter overflow common items to be thrown into the lava. This keeps quality items in a constant state of creation. Enough at least it's worth putting rare basic material in spaceship delivery rotation to other planets along with recreating the hub to make only rare (and later higher quality) equipment that are only base copper or iron.

[@TheRolemodel1337]

5:20 you can just put 2 recyclers facing each other and they will feed each other (while inserting trash from the outside) this setup will recycle things to nothing and works for many of the simple components like gears cable steel ice and fuel concrete also works if they're fast enough else iron clogs them and they will stop completely

[@Sworn973]

Nice, finally got the red chip build fixed, those two at the left were driving me crazy hahahha. Damm I was doing my build on fulgora since you get the raw item directly, but vulcanos build are so damm fast, I'm considering a change now

[@DannyFarnsworth]

Alright, Nilaus, on Vulcanus, quality coal mining -> quality plastic -> quality LDS with foundry with LDS productivity research. Recycle quality LDS for plastic and copper, find somewhere to do with the excess quality steel. Then EM plant makes quality copper coils. Only thing missing for the circuit chain is quality iron plates. But once you have the rare+ quality inputs, you can manufacture all the circuits in EM plant focusing on productivity rather than quality boost.

[@spicybaguette7706]

With enough LDS productivity (150%, 4x legendary + foundry = 150%, so you need 150% more to get to 300%) you can even get 300% productivity for LDS, which means you can recycle 1->1 plastic, copper plate and steel all the way to legendary. Quality steel and copper can be used for solar panels

[@spicybaguette7706]

Its probably still better to upcycle green circuits since recycling iron plates is much less effective than recycling green circuits (because EM plant productivity/5 module slots). Though you can effectively skip normal quality iron plates, just dump those in the lava

[@DannyFarnsworth]

@@spicybaguette7706 Good call

[@maximushashur3912]

ive never gotten to beacons yet, playing space exploration as my first factorio experience

[@marksw5499]

Love your detailed videos, Nilaus.

[@louisrovegno542]

The way the belt balancers on the top belt running left to right rely on a few stuck items is driving me up the wall!

[@Yominurlero]

I get my Legendary Mecha armor and he's still upcycling, it changes all guys go for it!

[@sirgaz8699]

I get my recyclers to stack outputs by having the recycler output into a box have a combinator each divide by and output each and set the stack inserter to set filters so a stack inserter only picks up when it can get a full handful.

[@robslaney3729]

@19:45 I like to have 2 sets of inserters to remove from machines using quality. Bulk inserters for the lowest quality you will expected, and a filtered stack inserter for higher quality.

[@giin97]

Easy to set up, too. Set lowest expected to filter on one, copy to second, flip switch to blacklist.

[@alejandrosand]

Amazing video as always

[@lightlegion_]

Your content is exceptionally unique!

[@MrSequeezey]

Do you think there's any validity to skip the upcycling on Greens and Reds and just upcycle Blues to take advantage of the productivity bonus? Then once it's legendary break it back down into Green and Red circuits? Especially since the plastic in reds is the sticking point.

[@deredware9442]

This is the easy way. You can get 300% productivity on blue circuits with 13 levels of productivity research. That means recycling is resource neutral, so a single build of 5 EM plants with productivity and speed beacons + 32ish recyclers with quality modules can spit out 5/s legendary blue circuits for the cost of 5/s normal blue circuits.

[@alexpavlenko4719]

Recyclers can be directed at each other and they will destroy items cyclically until they disappear

[@DamocracyGaming]

I also figured out that Fulgora is like banging my head into the wall while watching paint dry. It's basically just a science planet Scrap was an ok concept but its just not efficient, effective, or worth the time.

[@giin97]

Yeah, most of the time I spent on that planet was standing there waiting around. Vulcanis was a fun change and Gleba was a blast, probably my favorite planet and my easiest to develop, but Fulgora? Snoozefest.

[@gronkotter]

What's your plastic setup on vulcanus? I find it pretty expensive to produce there.

[@mrkv4k]

Once you get the advanced coal liquefaction, it's pretty cheap. In fact, Vulcanus is the best place to produce all chips.

[@htpc002Weirdhouse]

Shouldn't the five new "vertical stripes" be flipped left-to-right? The awesome stripe should always be fed (which is not the case currently, because the input belt is emptied before it reaches the end) and then the less awesome stripe, then the okay stripe and so on down to the "might as well include the deconstructor into the blueprint because ther is so much dreck coming out of these factories" stripe?

[@mikeriley2475]

I'd like to place a light next to my turrets and have them turn red when enemies get within range. What Circuit signals stands for target? And could you do something like this in a future episode?

[@NukeMarine]

First, he should just put quality modules in the red circuit build, then filter only quality circuits off to his upscaler area. Then, he can add a "downtime check" that can route normal red circuits when the rockets are full and waiting. Also, feels like a mistake to not also create the quality resources to feed into these upscalers directly. With green circuits, I imagine it'd be easy to do a foundry cycle for quality copper wire and iron plates. They'll produce so much faster that you'll likely just stick to legendary and epic green circuits. Just toss the excess lower quality materials into the lava. For red, on Gleba set up a cycle to get legendary, epic, and maybe rare plastic to export to Vulcanus to speed up quality red cards. Blue will be no issue at all.

[@dacianhantig7810]

Indeed, you could produce quality copper wire and iron plates in assemblers/smelters or with quality modules in foundries to speed up the upcycling loop. Also the Gleba upcycling is a good idea ... getting to work now to implement it, TY Later edit: fix for the quality modules in foundries didn't cross my mind, TY for that @NukeMarine

[@NukeMarine]

@@dacianhantig7810 You're incorrect in that you can put quality mods in the foundry just like in smelters and get a percentage of quality outputs. What I did is put the quality mods in each foundry doing lava to item, ran the excess normal output to the lava, and banked the quality plates or steel or gears, etc.

[@dacianhantig7810]

@@NukeMarine ah, then it's another thing, my bad, you didn't mention quality modules in the first post ;)

[@NukeMarine]

@@dacianhantig7810 Sorry about that. To be fair, I did write "toss excess common quality into the lava" which suggests using quality mods.

[@jesusismful]

Is there any way to detect when a stopped platform is full or otherwise doesn't have the room to accept anymore supply, and then immediately send it to another planet? I set up some circuits to read the inventory and send a signal but the dang interrupts only trigger when the ship moves. I've had my ships set like you discovered for some time now because it's the only reliable way to handle that problem efficiently. But I still don't like it lol

[@0brine]

could you make a overflow to recycle the rare circuites? could happen if other planets dont request rare circuites for a long time and then everything would clog up

[@htpc002Weirdhouse]

Regarding the sub-belt balancers on the output of this build -- there seem to be items stuck on every one of them. Is that intentional?

[@killman51]

Maybe Nebuchadnezzar got stuck due to that broken water pipe on gleba from a previous video...?

[@twelvethirtyfour]

I'm confused, how are lamps reacting without any wire connections?

[@lainverse]

24:08 I might be missing something, but why forcing each input to 1 side in these mergers above is a good thing? I mean, internal lines aren't moving because merging into an underground belt accepts input only from 1 side of the belt merging into it.

[@88porpoise]

It is for lane balancing. He is basically splitting the top and bottom lanes onto different belts so that they can be remerged evenly. So if the incoming belt has 25% on the top lane and 75% on the bottom lanes, the output belt will have 50% on each lane. There is a small amount that is stuck in the balancer, but once that little bit is stuck, everything else flows smoothly.

[@dmitriiefimov2134]

Why upcircle red? Upcircle base t5 like plates, build everything else for free on prod/speed?

[@jokcho5]

its too slow. you need a ton of resources to produce 1 red circuit (relatively speaking) while with high productivity you are not losing as much to recycling.

[@NielsonJanne]

Is he also gonna upcycle legendary bitter eggs?

[@NukeMarine]

I think he prefers the legendary sweet eggs.

[@xenogard]

Glad I'm not the only one who runs into problems with some random runaway production lol

[@warnerpaul]

How do you get the blue shortcuts at bottom of the inventory?

[@alexandrgolikov9660]

with middle button click

[@allahuakhbar1833]

The buffer you created for the regular path is over-complicated. You can simplify it by having longer belt (or replace longer belt with inline chest) for higher capacity. The splitter and merging is unnecessary. i.e. You can put the buffer directly in the main belt, no need to create a side-path for the buffer.

[@OccasusRaven]

@Nilaus 300% productivity on blue circuits then you can upcycle them 1:1 to legendary then recycle to get legendary green red and blue circuits for free!

[@traviesun3049]

How do you change the quality without clicking it when setting the recipe on assemblers?

[@jmt1611]

Shift + Alt + mouse wheel, haven't tried it yet had to go look it up

[@jmt1611]

They just changed it [space-age] Default quality cycling shortcut simplified to alt+scroll.

[@traviesun3049]

​@jmt1611 a bit late but thanks! Gonna have to try this out tonight now that I'm finally up to upgrading my base haha

[@shogged]

what is the trick to scroll through quality so quickly vs clicking on it

[@jmt1611]

They just changed it [space-age] Default quality cycling shortcut simplified to alt+scroll.

[@shogged]

@ today was a good day!

[@chandrasivaram]

I think for Epic & Legendary Green Circuits, its better to craft Epic & Legendary Iron plates & Copper Coils using Legendary Q Lava factories and throwing everything out, instead of recycling lesser Quality Greens Circuits because Each Recyclers use " 4 Legendary Quality Modules" , which were huge cost compared to Green Circuits.

[@JasonAWilliams-IS]

a legendary quality building doesn't contribute to quality of its products. It only makes the products faster. It takes quality modules to improve the quality of outputs.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

Why not instead of syphoning off completed red circuits to recycle them you don't copy and paste the original redd circuit builder but with quality modules? That should give you a significant headstart in the quality of the products.

[@harryloo8544]

you can directly feeds ice off 2 recycler

[@Powermeta11]

I may just be misunderstanding you but it seems like you're implying that you have a 25% chance of raising quality tier, then that 25% has another 25% chance of going up another tier of quality, etc... The actual math is that you have a static 10% chance to get a 'bonus' upgrade after the first 25%. So if that module upgrade chance hits you have a 90% chance of it upgrading it by one tier, 9% chance of two tiers, 0.9% chance of three tiers and 0.1% of four tiers, and these odds are static and unaffected by the quality modules. At least that's how the devs explained it on some official page... though it was very misleading how they chose to explain it. In practice this makes it more important to get the module bump as often as possible in your process. Perhaps feeding your upcycling process after the recyclers with resources coming from quality moduled foundries, chem plants and emps making the wires, plastic and greens. It's more of a head ache but in theory higher productivity per minute and fewer burned resources by not doing your initial quality roll in a recycler... You could even bump it up farther by trying to quality the coal, iron plates and copper wires making the intermediates, but at that point it becomes really convoluted. I could be wrong though. Who knows.🤷‍♂ Gleba was a breeze compared to this stuff.

[@MP-ol6gh]

Yes, this is how it works. With Nilaus's specific numbers, there's a 25% chance to jump 1 quality level, 2.5% chance to jump 2 quality levels, 0.25% to jump 3 quality levels, etc. I watched another KZbinr go through this same realization, and then prove it by comparing the production rates. The end result for that KZbinr was that they needed to go back and quality module everything back to miners and smelters, so that each step of the production process had the highest chance to jump 1 level, and there were good chances at every stage of the production line (iron ore to iron plate to green circuits to red circuits; copper ore to copper plate to copper wiring; coal to plastic bar to red circuit).

[@JasonAWilliams-IS]

I agree. would be better to try to quality as early in the prod chain as possible and just handle all the outputs like what was shown in the video (quality filters on belt splitters) to setups that build the same thing for each quality level. (Then there is another chance to up the quality.) Before filtering that output on quality and sending it down the line again. I think the most efficient players will start to evolve their bases to be more like this once they get quality opened up in their saves.

[@Elysium137]

I'll never understand why you didn't just craft something with the red circuits before recycling them since you have unlimited supply of iron and copper on vulcanus.

[@DannyFarnsworth]

I was trying to recycle normal quality plastic on Nauvis to support quality red circuits on Fulgora. I had far faster success when putting quality modules in my coal miners.

[@youcefgaming4423]

why upgrading the quality ? im freshly new to the game

[@4D_SpaceTime]

it can be even more simplified

[@fortheregm1249]

maybe there is a better implementation of up-cycling. every column should have its own recycler.---Any thing that moves up in quality gets sent to the next column. nothing gets down tiered but yet you are sending everything back to square 1 and its clogging the system.

[@9fastcutman661]

i don't get how hes using the fulgora planet machines on other planets can someone tell me? I can't use recyclers and magnetic plant pieces anywhere other then fulgora.

[@pepperbox-ic3oo]

u can ship them to other planets using rockets and space platforms

[@barakondra]

Interplanetary Transportation, get a Plattform for every planet and export, whatever is cheap or enviromentaly limited, to every other Planet

[@telgames]

You have to craft the machines on Fulgora but you can export them to anywhere. Recycle to your heart's content!

[@Liwet.]

You're technically wasting calcite.

[@kitesquid]

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[@Avery-eb9wl]

Why do the thumbnails seem so much like clickbait?

[@ashtonmiller-z1n]

hey if you geting too much resroches to deal with you might need to stop rescarthing thso infite prodacivty repatedable reasarches for now. that bascly means try to focus on researching new tech that gives you new stuff to work with.

[@yasielfranchi]

👍👍👍

I wonder why bother with all this. With recyclers you lose 75% of whatever you recycle. With asteroid reprocessing you only lose 20%. My friend just made a separate, very wide platform on our server that collects asteroid chunks and reprocesses them with quality outputting tons of quality iron and coal (for plastic). We have tens of thousands of that stuff, more than we can consume. The only things that are really a challenge are exotic materials like holmium, tungsten...

[@pepperoneh]

2:38 Huh, I cannot add more than one quality of an item in a single Logistic Group. They must have changed it. I wish they did not.

[@88porpoise]

@@pepperoneh You have to select the quality before the item. You cannot have overlapping quality for the same item into he same request. You can have multiple items at different qualities. Unfortunately due to the default selected quality (all qualities) it will always conflict if you don't change the quality first.

[@wittyharp2869]

LMAO. Just feed two recyclers into themselves. Speed modules and speed beacons. All you need. Feed one into another and then a third one feeding back directly into the second if you really want to make sure speed never drops. What is that disaster block with chests and inserters.

[@GameBoy-hd2eg]

Least obvious rage bait