Nintendo Switch Online vs. Virtual Console

[@gregoriahthanielsonward]

i do think the one upside to the bizarre subscription model is that it gets people to try stuff they probably never would have before since it's all bundled in there

[@PhenomenalJec]

If only there was a purchase option to the games, then it would be actually useful

[@pass_]

​@@PhenomenalJecyou see I had this idea that they could've had the apps available to everyone but the games are locked behind the subscription but you'd also have the option to permanently unlock a game for whatever price Nintendo feels like for these games now, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo values nes games at $10 now also if Nintendo wants these services to live past the switch then they kinda shot themselves in the foot by calling it "Nintendo switch online" could've just called it Nintendo online

[@therealjaystone2344]

@@PhenomenalJecyou don’t own the games digitally

[@jonathanwilson7949]

Yep! I become a Metroid fan after playing Super Metroid for the first time and I doubt that would’ve happened if I had to pay five bucks for it :D

[@therealjaystone2344]

@@pass_because the nes games are just mid that it’s worth the low price unlike resellers selling highly priced nes games that you can just download the rom for $0

[@KrisMagicPunch]

i'm glad Scott hacked his Wii U to use Virtual Console Injection to play Smurfs 2 DS

[@aturchomicz821]

No way💀

[@RobertBrocchini]

Knowing him he probably just hacked one of his blank Wii us

[@lorissantarsiero5849]

What gave it away?

[@Mimi.1001]

​​@@lorissantarsiero5849 They didn't release Smurfs 2 DS on Wii U Virtual Console (Shocker, I know) and the "DS PNG on Screen" was an Option for it. Although he (or rather one of his friends) could've just edited it in.

[@lorissantarsiero5849]

@@Mimi.1001 gotcha

[@RyanStorey1231]

"I was there for the entire Wii U generation" Really, Scott? We haven't noticed.

[@adora_was_taken]

yeah, i don't think he's made any videos about the wii u weirdly enough

[@ThePreciseClimber]

Wow, four whole years!

[@whatevercal3056]

I notice.❤ i love you scott that owns sonic 2 with a line❤

[@Faz10do987]

@@adora_was_takengeez me neither 8 hours just to talk about 2 years of the Wii U

[@CombatSkorost]

Great job on the editing guys, love to see Dom and Sam help out. I also 100% agree with you Scott, if NSO gave you the ability to outright buy games to download to your system alongside having the subscription service; then it would genuinely be perfect.

[@dr6559]

Problem is no one will buy them despite how often people online demand they just do it. I believe there were virtual console numbers for Wii leaked many years ago. People bought Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda and nothing else.

[@positivetakes5592]

or it could work like both Gamepass and PS+ where you can download or stream them

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

@@dr6559yes digital purchasing habits from years ago are the exact same as they are now.

[@roflBeck]

@@dr6559 Not me lol. I picked up F-Zero X, Super Metroid, Bomberman, Super Star Soldier, Soldier Blade, Star Fox 64, Mario Kart 64, and maybe some others. Not sure if I can recall all of 'em. That Wii died, but I got most of the roms still, plus another working Wii.

[@Mattjazz47]

@@roflBeck I feel like the video was just virtual console bashing and downplaying the library while just hyping up NSO like its the best thing in the world which is not. 38 million users out of 141 million users using online is proof enough

[@glitchm.c.9931]

I think the retro library on Switch ain’t bad, especially after 7 years. But I think it really comes down to the fact you don’t own them, you’re simply “renting” them through the subscription model. I would far much prefer if you could still own your retro library

[@kenterminateddq5311]

Virtual Console will always be better than NS Online since you can own the game and not pay a monthly subscription.

[@NintendoPlayer307]

And on top of that, we still don’t have all the games Nintendo published on NES & SNES

[@dialga236]

honestly after 7 years, this library is extremely lacking. theres no reason the switch should be beat out by the wii imo.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

@@dialga236 the Wii had Mario 64 at launch. The Switch got it 4 and half years after launch.

[@2-Way_Intersection]

I mean sure, but the average person isnt gonna care that much when its games this old. Anyone who really cares abt gaming to that level, if absolutely nothing else, knows how to 'use' an emulator.

[@bliptro]

the main thing that switch online did good is that the games aren’t weirdly darkened anymore

[@thinkhector]

That's not the only issue. Some games had audio issues. "Sonic 3 and Knuckles" was notoriously bad on Wii Virtual Console. Tons of new bugs, plus garbled audio all over the place.

[@Luke-ts8ck]

Fun Fact: The NSO apps are region free. This means that even though I have an American account and subscription, I can still play the Japanese NSO apps no problem! All I did was make an account with Japan as the region and downloaded from the eShop.

[@Curlyheart]

I legit thought Scott was flipping us the bird in the thumbnail.

[@bluerious5475]

Has he ever actually done that before

[@novamarpo3]

@@bluerious5475I don’t think so

[@CrustyFox87]

LOL

[@vianabdullah2837]

NSO is probably the better deal at this point but it does suck that there's no option to buy some of the games outright, even at an inflated price. Having the equivalent of the Mega Man Legacy Collection for Nintendo games would've been pretty cool.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

The only upside of NSO is that its such a terrible deal for third parties (they get a one off license fee rather than a cut per game sold) that we now get physical and digital versions of remastered collections for third party classics on all platforms rather than digital only piece meal games only on Nintendo.

[@kingstarscream320]

@@ThomastheDankEngine8900The recent influx of classic game collections surprised me. They happened during the PS2 era but rarely happened during the Wii era when VC was an option.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

@@kingstarscream320 sucks that the third party classics being free came at the cost of Nintendo’s classics being jailed by the subscription.

[@dapperfan44]

​@@ThomastheDankEngine8900Hey, this isn't a Mystic video! Small internet.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

@@dapperfan44haha yeah sure is. Despite all my complaints about NSO, I still like Nintendo. I just wish they had their Wii era backwards compatibility and championed their legacy content like they did back then.

[@Thibbs-vp6gm]

The biggest difference for me is that I still have all the virtual console games I downloaded on my 3ds. Down the line when Nintendo decides the switch has run its course and takes the servers offline like they recently did with 3ds and Wii U, we won’t have those games anymore.

[@saibot23724]

And what's to say the service won't continue with the next console?

[@Thibbs-vp6gm]

@@saibot23724 the point is that you’d still be paying money to not own games. I can play the games I own whenever I want. If I happen to fall on hard times and can’t spend money on maintaining video game services I won’t be able to play any of those games anymore

[@Mrnotpib]

It does sound like a thing Nintendo would do, but when I hear that I remember that when the 3DS went offline last year, you could got to keep your Pokemon bank data indefinitely.

[@Ale41976]

I think the big outlier is that Switch Online should give you the option of BUYING the games if you want. I think it Does have a good value on its library, but that just feels like Nintendo doesn't even want to make more money. Like they feel bad

[@DJCube1701]

On top of that, you should have access to Wii/Wii U/3DS VC games you previously bought.

[@squiddu]

​@@DJCube1701they've switched online ("account" but the Wii didn't have one) systems twice now, that's basically impossible

[@jam560]

i just wonder whats gonna happen when the switch is no longer supported.. they should at least let everybody who paid for nso for over a year keep them

[@erkantiryaki5542]

Nintendo is planning to have this system for their future console though and hinted that there won't be a reset. Think about it if you wanted to buy a game and payed 5 bucks that is the end of it. You will have that game until you die. But if you just rent the game. You might want to play it again in for example 10 years. Then in another 10 years you would want to play again and Nintendo would earn more money. They are thinking about long term investments.

[@KeinNiemand]

if you had that opton some people would stop paying for the subscription. subscription make way more money then selling. Even with a basic Switch Online Subscription 20€ a year, over like 6 years it has existed that cost 120€ so unless you would have bough more then 120€ worth of NES/SNES/Gamebox games (so about ~24 NES Games or 15 SNES Games) the subscription makes them more money.

[@jalapenoofjustice4682]

these games are a cool bonus for online, but I hate that this is the ONLY way to get them because the Switch won't be online forever. It always sucks when an online storefront goes offline, but at least on Wii you get to keep all the old NES games you bought originally.

[@Mookie12911]

The only hope is that everything that’s been built up over the years funnels seamlessly into the next Nintendo system. If not, Nintendo is in extreme trouble when it comes to the service

[@squiddu]

​@@Mookie12911they've made a somewhat big deal out of making the transition super smooth, mainly using the same Nintendo Account system, so HOPEFULLY

[@Daft0Cean968]

the service is definitely not perfect and it's not close to being perfect, but as you said it's a cool bonus. I don't think I would've played games like Super Mario World if it didnt come with the online subscription, and it turned out to be one of my favorite games ever lol. Ideally tho there should be an option to just buy the game

[@Tom-jw7ii]

NSO is pretty cool. Thanks to it, I put like 90 hours into Mario Picross, a game which I otherwise would’ve never known existed. There are so many other great games that I might have never given a real chance otherwise, like Ninja Gaiden, Gradius, Joe & Mac, Congo’s Caper, Earthworm Jim 2, Burgertime Deluxe, and Journey to Silius.

[@avery-u1w]

still can't figure out warios picross

[@kyongu375]

NSO is what got me into gaming more, that game being Earthbound

[@tanman2654]

⁠@@avery-u1w I still can’t figure out Picross in general.

[@Poyomini]

​@@avery-u1w DUDE, SAME! I can do even the hardest puzzles in Mario's side, no problem! Wario though? HOOOOOOLY HELL, SOME OF THOSE PUZZLES ARE BASTARDS!

[@Prosper_Dean]

I agree! I've played so much Mario Picross since it was added. I like how picross can be understood regardless of the language B)

[@Nerdtendo6366]

“Vietnam or WWI?” - Switch Online vs Virtual Console

[@Merkantoine]

This is the best analogy I've ever seen on the topic 😂

[@idkwhattohaveasausername5828]

To be fair, I would much rather fight in Vietnam than WW1.

[@totalmarh]

@@idkwhattohaveasausername5828why?

[@idkwhattohaveasausername5828]

@@totalmarhyou would have a much higher chance of survival. It was still war, but medical and military research had advanced much further leading to lower fatalities and injuries

[@RedPiece0601]

​@@idkwhattohaveasausername5828if you are american then yes

[@tomorrowslost4299]

50 minutes of Scott talking about the VC? Sign me up!

[@Frogs_United]

Geek

[@FH4Player6397]

@@Frogs_United And?

[@Frogs_United]

@@FH4Player6397 nerd

[@Jdudec367]

@@Frogs_United and?

[@okay4680]

@@Frogs_UnitedI’m stroking my shit.

[@vini64]

The comment about how with NSO you get to try games you'd never have given a chance before is 100% true. I used to be a Fire Emblem hater without never playing a FE game, but one day I was bored and decided to play something on the GBA app, saw Fire Emblem there, thought to myself "lemme see how bad this is haha", but I ended up playing it for 3 hours that day and got completely hooked. Since then I became a Fire Emblem fan, played through all 3 GBA games and am planning to start Path of Radiance soon!

[@Daft0Cean968]

1000% agree, I prefer NSO for this reason. I was not into retro games and never imagined myself playing them, until I got it for 'free' (not really but besides the point) along with the online subscription I was already going to buy anyways. Now games like Super Mario World are some of my favorite games of all time

[@fernando98322]

I can only talk about my personal experience, but on VC I've only bought and played a dozen games (half of them I already owned). On NSO, I've played for the first time like triple of that already. And online multiplayer with friends is a huge plus even if I haven't played much

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

Online play doesn’t mean much if the vast majority of the retro catalogue you’re interested in is singleplayer.

[@Timeforceletsgo]

@@ThomastheDankEngine8900I mean, yes but this is subjective and the fact they added online support is only a benefit, not a strike against it if you don’t play multiplayer games.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

@@Timeforceletsgonot really because in the days of Virtual Console, online play was completely free. Now it isn’t.

[@Timeforceletsgo]

@@ThomastheDankEngine8900 but the emulation quality and infrastructure was vastly inferior. But go ahead, cry.

[@ThessaTheCat]

@@ThomastheDankEngine8900 The Virtual Console games on Wii and Wii U also had no online multiplayer whatsoever, free or otherwise.

[@03bgood]

Pros: • You get to own them • Games released weekly, instead of monthly • Better planned releases for future games • More platforms like TurboGrafx-16 • Better support for 3rd party games Cons: • NES/N64 games have dark filters (Wii U) • $5-10 per game • Locked to system • No online play for 2-4 player games • Bilinear filtering • No restore points (Wii only) • All games are separate games/downloads As much as I miss the Virtual Console, the only things it did better was release games weekly and there were way more 3rd party games like Castlevania and Mega Man.

[@rockapartie]

" NES/N64 games have dark boarders (Wii U)" If only they had a dark border! They have a darkening filter. I removed it from all the N64 games recently (there's a guide on GBAtemp) but didn't look into how to remove it from the other consoles yet.

[@kingbaard5395]

PREACH. See, I actually like the occasional add ons. I love being surprised with more value for a service I was already going to get for the online play.

[@raven-a]

The multiplayer still sucks ass, they added Four Swords and you still can't play multiplayer on a single system? Like how hard can it be to spawn mutiple emulators instances and just show one on the screen? Nintendo is pure bullshit (btw old Neo Geo Pockets being sold at the store have this feature, though they split the screen and the sound gets buggy because it's doubled, but this has been there for years now, and Nintendo can't be bothered to do the basics)

[@video-luver769]

Nobody ever complains that the non-Nintendo libraries for each sucessive VC roll out got smaller and smaller. Wii had Arcade, C64, Genesis, Master System, Neo Geo, and TG16. 3DS had... Game Gear. Wii U had... TG16. It was diminishing returns, honestly.

[@ltb1345]

The Wii VC point is kind of moot, since at least the Wii U had Wii games, unlike the Switch.

[@jyllianrainbow7371]

I'd love a physical copy for each NSO library of games. Like you could buy an NES collection physical copy that when you put the cartridge in it's basically just the NSO app, but you don't have to be online and the data is all on the cart.

[@batmanbud2]

Actually, that would be nice.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

Retro compilations like “NES Classics”, “SNES Classics”, etc. would be superior to both NSO and Virtual Console.

[@ultimatebreak827]

Yea people have suggested that, nintendo could charge 60$ a pop per system and updates the apps along side the nso versions

[@breadsandwich4162]

I like the idea of Switch Online, but I think removing people's abilities to own these games without paying for online every month is lame. I think you should be able to download AT LEAST ONE game every 1-3 months so you can keep the games you truly want and mess around with games you wanna try whenever you choose to pay premium.

[@YoungMrBlue]

Or like Scott said, pay a small fee to permanently download a game to your console

[@raimundoestelaleemhuis6594]

Wii's VC felt great because most of us still used the Wii on a CRT. Hard to replicate that feeling

[@RenegadePandaZ]

I think Nintendo really should have had an option to buy these games. Just keep the current system but add an option to buy each game individually, flag it with an icon or something, and let you continue to play when the subscription lapses. I think a ton of people would still pay for a 20 dollar sub and still gladly pay 10 bucks for one or two games that they like just to have the security of knowing they can still play them if their sub goes away. It doesn't make sense to not have that option, since you'd still spend way more if you wanted to buy every game offered (so the sub would still be a 'deal') but if you wind up playing one of these for the first time and loving the game, but can't swing the 20 or 50 for the sub at that time, you're SOL and can't play it until you resub. Or, hell, if we're talking perfect world scenarios, when the Switch 2 comes out, just release physical cartridge collections of each system and hock them for 60 bucks each. I'd buy all of them and you'd immediately make more money off me in one purchase than you ever would on a sub that I only randomly renew.

[@okayemjay]

I’ve always loved NSO. I was pretty fresh into gaming when Switch first came out. I played games before then, but the Switch and BotW really got me into games as a whole. And so having NSO get more and more games throughout this generation slowly introduced me to all sorts of wonderful retro games.

[@murderman8578]

Just emulate

[@chunkymonkey7983]

​@@murderman8578They can do what they want bro

[@okayemjay]

@@murderman8578 In 2018 I was 12. Piracy and emulation weren’t really accessible. :P Either way, it’s not my cup of tea. I have mixed emotions on the ethics around piracy, plus I’m weird and don’t enjoy playing games on my computer.

[@avery-u1w]

@@okayemjaycan't stress how much i agree with you

[@rockapartie]

@@okayemjay I'm fine with the 2D games on NSO (except that I miss some of the best SNES RPGs, like Secret of Evermore, Lufia, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma), but 3D games look so bad on official emulators, especially PlayStation 1 and 2. Playing them on Duckstation and PCSX2 instead with graphics enhancements (Duckstation can even mitigate some of the PS1's hardware flaws) and x-times the internal resolution is like getting a free remaster.

[@GLC48]

I hate subscription services so I choose VC any day. Would rather be able to just spend $10 on a specific game I want and have access to it indefinitely. Although I can recognize the benefits of a subscription service so ideally we should have the option for both like how the PlayStation store does it.

[@sahaprocks7751]

At least with NSO, you would try more games that you wouldn’t spend a few bucks on with VC

[@kannmansomachengehtaberauc9881]

@@sahaprocks7751you can just use any emulator to try games out and buy the ones you like. It’s been made even easier since emulators run on iPhones. The game catalog is way bigger and you get the best of both worlds.

[@masterblaster8354]

They should just have both. It's really dumb that you can't try a game on nso and then buy it to keep it. It's free money that nintendo seems to not want.

[@Powl_J]

“Everybody begged Nintendo to do X and when Nintendo finally did that, everyone complained about it” That’s modern internet discourse for ya

[@super8bitable]

Well maybe Nintendo should stop trying to be cute by adding a feature that sours the experience?

[@olar549]

The thing is, at that time, we had what, Netflix? Hulu? When NSO came out, in a time with 3000 different subscription services spreading thin the content that was mostly in a single platform... it hits kinda different. I think thats part of the reason people are not really on board with the ideia of a gaming subscription service

[@Mookie12911]

The thing people complained about the most was the severe lack of games when it first launched. And don’t forget that you need switch online to play games online. Which was never a thing before. People wanted a fat library of just retro titles to sub to. Not a sub service required to play games online mixed with 40 year old nes games that got drip fed to the extreme

[@TheSultan1470]

Everybody wanted it, the four guys above bitched

[@juiceala]

I never complained about virtual console I only complained about having to re-purchase the same games on every system, I much prefer buying the game I want, pay for it once and keep it, instead of paying a monthly fee on a service I never use just to "rent" a bunch of games I'm not interested in. I honestly prefer the way Sony is handling it, you can either subscribe and have access to the entire library, or do what I do and just buy the games you want, Sony also had cross-buy on the PS Vita which is a lot better imo.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

Shame because Nintendo was king at BC and respecting their legacy during the Wii era.

[@TatsuyaWow]

pirate games always nintendo

[@HebrewGamer100]

You don't pay a monthly fee for NSO. you pay $20 a year.

[@paulakroy2635]

@@TatsuyaWowI mean pirate all games. Screw this good company stuff

[@LunarBoo]

I think what I miss the most is per-game button remapping and the ability to view manuals. On the other hand I don't see myself buying even just half of the games I tried out through NSO.

[@LavenderRebellin]

The baffling thing to me is the abscence of Pokemon on NSO, like I feel *a lot of people* would get NSO just to play those old Pokemon games. It's literally the 2 Stadium games, Puzzle League, Snap and the Trading Card game. A feature of the Stadium games is that you can take your pokemon from your game boy and see them battle in 3D. I don't imagine it would be very hard to get these games on NSO so I just dont know why they havent done it yet

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

Because game freak would get more value out of selling the games on the eshop. Nintendo wouldn’t split revenue to game freak because they added Pokémon.

[@ihateyougoog1elol]

My guess is that they just don't want to deal with the saves situation when they eventually shut this down. People will be upset losing their saves for some of the games on there, but there would be riots in the streets if Pokemon saves were being lost.

[@radaf4429]

My honest opinion: A. Even the newest Pokémon game is so similar to the oldest Pokémon Game, so they're afraid people won't buy the new Pokémon because they have the old one. This especially makes sense when you have parents buying games for their kids, they will look at the new Pokémon game and go, "no, you can't have that, we have Pokémon already" B. Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee are still retailing and they are essentially remakes of Red and Blue- if RBY was on the virtual console, Let's Go sales would drop C. They saw how much a release of RBY sold on 3DS, and they're not above pulling that on the Switch (see Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon release) D. Acknowledging and releasing gen 3-5 Pokémon would put into perspective how bad the series has gotten for most fans E. Kind of touched on already but Pokémon on Switch is still a novelty, opening the floodgates with NSO would kill that niche that SWSH, PLA and SV have F. They want to keep the door open for Pokémon remakes or enhanced re-releases (HD 2D copium) Just some thoughts, I don't think it really has anything to do with Gamefreak, Nintendo's just looking to maximize profit and more power to them as these games are some of the most emulator friendly ever and Nintendo knows it Edit: it's also my theory that Nintendo is genuinely very afraid of people playing old Pokémon, as that's what the most popular streamers do. I corroborate this by pointing out that Battle Frontier and other post-game challenges have left the series, reducing the replayability of those games drastically.

[@anthonybenci9035]

Either they would be locked in a vacuum or have no rewind.

[@keeby4]

I just hate the concept of paying repeatedly for a selection of games, most of which I won’t even play. I’d rather just buy the ones I want and keep them forever.

[@crashtefano]

22:40 Speaking of which, I bought some classic PS1 and PSP games on the Vita from the PS Store, knowing that I will always be able to play them on my PS Vita since I downloaded them. I think we should be given this option on every system that has a digital store for retro games. I'm not alone while I think that not owning actual games after purchase is concerning to say the least

[@megasoniczx6960]

15:26 "Nintendo do that and everybody bitched." Seems like that happens a lot ngl. People want Sony & Xbox to put their games on PC, but now that they do it's suddenly bad because they're not exclusive anymore.

[@AbruptAvalanche]

It turns out, different people have different opinions on things.

[@Raddish-Is-Radd]

​@@AbruptAvalanchecould be reality break for some people to realize not everybody bitched.

[@theruoc147]

You know it’s a good stash video when Scott adds cutaway gags and b roll footage. This could have been a full Scott the Woz episode

[@chadmann132]

I dont really care about vc, what was annoying with the wii u is that your purchases didnt carry over. Sure, you had the ability transfer your wii data to the wii u, but of course nintendo still had the audacity to charge you for vc games they brought to the wii.

[@Dad_Shoes]

I'm going to be completely honest, I genuinely prefer the subscription model. I didn't purchase a single Virtual Console game with the sole exception of Earthbound on the 3DS, and I realized it wasn't for me. I didn't want to risk wasting more money on games I didn't know if I would like or not. With the Switch Online, it allowed me to try out games that I would have never tried: F-Zero, Super Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, Link to the Past, and many more have become some of my favorite games of all time now. For F-Zero and Metroid, I've never played them before Switch Online and I have now played just about all their games because of it. Ironically, it actually caused me to purchase a few Virtual Console games on 3DS and Wii U that I now knew I would enjoy, like Metroid Fusion before Dread launched. Of course, the games I did purchase on those systems are stuck on them, and I would have had to repurchase them on Switch if I wanted to play them if it wasn't for NSO. To be fair, I get wanting to just be able to purchase the games individually. If I had a PS5, for example, I would definitely not want to subscribe to their most expensive tier for classic games because I'm not into most of them. I'd just purchase the few PS1 games I grea up with or the games in series I'm starting to get into. So I get it, but it's by no means bad to have the service.

[@Wiblum]

It’s a similar story for me.

[@Real_Faygo]

When I saw Scott uploaded, I dropped everything and came right here.

[@MrDean44]

So thankful the Wii and Wii U had VC back in the day, so many retros I played through that which I never probably would've played otherwise

[@Mallerd]

Im surprised you didn't talk about the NSO Controllers. I just got them myself and they are incredible! One of my favorite parts of the NSO Service

[@ranshi6417]

I think part of what people miss about virtual console (because it's what I miss) is the UI generally feeling more "homely" or matching the aesthetic of the wii channels, and it doesn't help that the switch has such meh/function over flavor UI I can hope the next console has more charming UI and lets you buy the games, then we can clap our hands and eat lunch with our hearts and minds at peace

[@legacytag]

I think with the Switch 2 being confirmed as a "Switch successor", the NSO service is going to stay. My best guess is that with the Switch 2 they'll finally add Gamecube to the service. Who knows what the reception will be though, cause Dolphin is widely known as the best fan emulator to ever be made (I've literally seen other people run virtual console emulators through Dolphin, its that good)

[@joebot86]

I figure the two reasons the GameCube part of the NSO is both the size of the games being large enough you can't just casually have them all like you can the other services, and the switches lack of analog shoulders. The new switch could fix both of those!

[@thinkhector]

There are only two games that every used the analog shoulder buttons: "Super Mario Sunshine", and "Luigi's Mansion." And we already have "Sunshine."

[@joebot86]

@@thinkhector that's not even remotely true, far more than two games used them. I would like the og Luigi's mansion remade on not-the-3ds though.

[@smashterpiece]

The fact that we are getting HD ports of so many gamecube and wii games makes me feel like we won’t be getting them on NSO.

[@TheNiteNinja19]

I've been replaying the Golden Sun series on NSO, and on the OLED switch, it's just so cathartic. I go from playing on a Game boy Advance with a worm light, to this glorious OLED screen on my favorite RPG, is awesome.

[@thinkhector]

I especially like how the Gameboy Advance games look on the OLED when I Switch the screen to "vivid" mode.

[@MusicJunkie37]

​@@thinkhector That's the default mode

[@lewisgrant7622]

Also the problem with VC ON WII U. Half the consoles that were on Wii were removed and most of the library were games that were already available on the Wii VC.

[@Octav2000]

30:33 shoutout to dreamcourse special that unlocks the unlockable multiplayer maps which require you to be a god at single player to unlock

[@PrixtoTNT]

"Hey listen, I use the word 'sh1t' a lot, when I use 'crap' you genuinely know I mean this is f*cking garbage" I loved that line lol

[@CarmenBeckett]

Scott calling out hypocrisy in the gaming community is so insanely therapeutic to me

[@i.m.evilhomer5084]

With Microsoft re-releasing Rare's games on NSO & Sony releasing Lego Horizons & MLB: The Show on Switch, I wonder if Sony will re-release their older games that saw Nintendo ports, such as Destruction Derby 64, Wipeout 64, Q*Bert, & Lemmings, among others.

[@EnigmaBarry]

Oh, One thing Scott didn't mention was the Classic Controllers. Nintendo actually sells Classic NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64 controllers. Sometimes they aren't in stock and you need an NSO Subscription to purchase them, but they're pretty faithful to the original controllers.... sometimes too faithful. I'M LOOKING AT YOU N64 ANALOG STICK!!!

[@dennsynizchavez4034]

They even sell the Famicom controllers as well, but only in Japan

[@pian-0g445]

The service of the retro games isn’t bad, especially since there’s appears only a few I would actually buy. Allows you try out a bunch of retro games. However, the fact you can’t buy them right is the absolute bummer.

[@bcj842]

I don't care if they want to bundle in games with the subscription, but jeez, why not provide the option to buy particular games from the collection outright?

[@mrnukes797]

Complacency

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

Since otherwise there’s not that much reason to be subscribed.

[@bcj842]

@@ganymedehedgehog371 I don't necessarily think that it takes away from the incentive to subscribe. The online service is very important to have for a Switch owner and having access to all those games is a good value. Giving people the option to own a few of their favorites isn't going to hurt anything as far as I can tell. The only thing Nintendo would have to do is perhaps amend some of the licensing agreements with the various companies allowing them to sell some of those titles outright.

[@jaxsterminator8634]

Because if you wanted almost every game on the library, you’d have to pay a lot more in total than if you just bought NSO. Not a very good deal, if you ask me.

[@hahasamian8010]

​@@jaxsterminator8634Nintendo themselves are determining the pricing for most of these games, nothing is stopping them from making things cheaper or selling bundles

[@DiddyKongVsLuigi]

Thought you were flipping the bird 🦜 in thumbnail

[@Mimikyu_Lov3r]

20:15 “Ya don’t get Mega Man on Switch Online” - Scott June 19th, 2024 Meanwhile June 6th, 2024; Nintendo of America’s KZbin channel uploaded a video showing that Mega Man 1, 2, 3 and 4 is available on Nintendo Switch Online (via the GameBoy/GameBoy Color emulator app)

[@ahmedhasan4966]

Wait, don't forget megaman 5!

[@restrictedcontroller5486]

The Megaman series on Game Boy is a completely different from the Megaman series on NES

[@Mazapan404]

Come on, you know Capcom knows no one was going to pay for a Megaman GB collection

[@MobiBit645]

But not the real mega man games because they have the legacy collection on switch, nothing against the game boy megamans but they are inferior to the NES games

[@austingordon3709]

Also Mega Man: The Wily Wars on Sega Genesis NSO!

[@mjdxp5688]

I was too young to buy Virtual Console games on Wii, but on the 3DS and Wii U I played so many old games for the first time, and it was super cool. I have some really fond memories of playing the Game & Watch Gallery games, the early Super Mario games, a lot of the old Kirby games, and a bunch of DS games on the Wii U. Being able to play DS games on the TV for the first time was amazing. I played through all the Pokémon Ranger games and some of the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games on the Wii U and had a blast. It was a really fun time. Unfortunately since I'm an adult now who can actually afford the real older systems or just emulate games on my computer, the Nintendo Switch Online offerings are a bit less compelling these days. Doesn't stop me from paying for it anyway, to be fair I have some good memories like playing the original Mario Party with friends, and it's great that we finally have Game Boy games on a home console. I just wish there was an actual selection and they weren't so obsessed with drip feeding games.

[@mjdxp5688]

Honestly, emulating the NES is really boring it me these days when I have a real console now and can actually seek out these games and own them for myself physically. The experience of plugging the cartridge into the console and holding it in your hands is something you can't replicate when it's a digital file on a modern system.

[@goldenpeepeepoopoo3196]

You should look into modding your 3ds if you have one. Emulation on that system is absolutely amazing.

[@mjdxp5688]

@@goldenpeepeepoopoo3196 I've already modded several 3DS systems and I spent hours emulating old games on them.

[@docsy4529]

I hope when the Switch wraps up, the long-time subscribers get to keep their online games on that system. But ofc to get them on the Switch 2, you have to be a subscriber.

[@alfiehicks1]

I very much doubt Nintendo would do that. They're most likely to just say "fuck you, thanks for the money, buy the Switch 2 to keep playing these games", and then cut off the ability to use these apps. Rinse and repeat for the Switch 3, Switch 4, Switch 5... you will own nothing and you will be happy.

[@RealPlasmat1c]

They should make Switch Online kinda like game pass, allow us to play all the retro games when you pay for Switch Online, and then give us a discount to buy individual games so we can play it without paying for the subscription

[@NintenDub]

You wouldn't be buying them.neither would I. You want the same feeling experience? Go on the eShop and buy sonic 1 for 5.99$. or type in hamster, and see how many of those neo heo games your actuslly gunna buy. The truth is, once the availability is there, ppl will make more excuses as to why they'll buy these classic games later...down the road. Like the week that the shop closes just like wiiu/3ds That's just the reality

[@NintenDub]

You wouldn't buy them And neither would i

[@RealPlasmat1c]

@@NintenDub It at least appeases both sides of the argument. You can buy them like they are virtual console, or have them as they are now. Win-Win situation I'd say (but yeah I'd probably stick with my 3ds virtual console lol

[@trade21]

@@NintenDubPeople absolutely would buy them. Its not like their going to be 70$

[@dialga236]

@@NintenDub i would 1000% buy virtual console releases, esp if you didnt have to connect to the internet every time youd play them like you constantly have to with the nso apps. for a portable console, this is an extremely stupid and annoying feature.

[@DefinitelyNotJay]

I grew up playing SNES in the N64 years. One huge benefit of NSO is all my friends with Switches are actually playing games from before we were born.

[@suprememingus6877]

People are saying its a better deal now than Virtual Console. Yeah, nearly 6 fucking years after they rolled it out.

[@redmarine2717]

So? it's still a better deal

[@suprememingus6877]

@@redmarine2717 not really when emulation exists

[@flamingsword2548]

​@@suprememingus6877I don't like playing games on pc I prefer switch online than pc emulation because I can play while relaxing in bed

[@suprememingus6877]

@@flamingsword2548 fair, but there are ways for that as well such as the steam deck

[@skycloud4802]

​@@flamingsword2548 cheap Chinese handhelds exist. It's not just pc

[@Pheicou]

It'll never stop bugging me that Game Boy games don't connect to N64 games.

[@tlingitsoldier]

3:38 Hearing "playing at my grandma's house with her NES" makes me feel old. My grandma doesn't even know what a "Nintendo" was.

[@elmachocentral5696]

The Roms are actually all downloaded to the system. The App just has DRM, which can be turned off with a modded Switch!!

[@alfiehicks1]

If you have a modded Switch then there are far better alternatives than these clunky, restrictive, horrible apps.

[@starsuper64]

I still remember when the online expansion pass was the most disliked video on their channel That was Nov 1st. 10 days later, KZbin announced they were removing dislikes Im convinced this video was one of the reasons

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

dislikes were definitely removed for big companies and politicians.

[@LackofGimmicks]

That's be silly

[@jaxsterminator8634]

Which is a good reason to remove dislikes. That announcement was probably the best thing Nintendo has ever done.

[@NukeCaulfield]

@@jaxsterminator8634 No.

[@dialga236]

@@jaxsterminator8634 bro did not just say removing dislikes was a good thing, youtube fed over here

[@jumentoqueanima]

The only advantage of virtual console is that you actually OWN the game. Other than that, Switch online has more features plus they are cheaper.

[@zilikslider]

Renewing gets annoying but I like having alot of snes games in one

[@duj21]

I love Scott’s stash

[@Breeze926]

I wish you had the option to buy some of the games, and I also wish they had their own Home Menu icon instead of being bundled inside an app. If those two things happened I wouldn't miss the virtual console at all (except maybe Wii N64 and it's great emulator)

[@KumaSan13]

Surprised you didnt talk aboit the extras of the Expansion Pack, Octo Expansion and the Booster Course pass are also really neat extras that add more value

[@theglowcloud2215]

"a bunch of old-ass games that only 40 year olds care about" that does sum up NES nostalgia

[@Daft0Cean968]

There are some that's still enjoyable, I mean imo the og mario bros is still decent fun, and mario bros 3 is just an insanely good game and it will likely be forever. And I first played these game with the NSO online so there is no nostalgia at all. But I somewhat agree a lot of these NES games are not great now, the SNES on the other hand has a bunch of actual classics

[@Danielruni]

@35:07 tbf i think the reason why companies still use 50hz European versions of their games is for the different localizations for different languages, even for English alot of games that release in the U.K have a slightly different localization for british english grammar and whatnot The fact that the North American ROMs wasn't selectable originally still is silly though

[@nickmeisterrants]

HOLY FUCK LOIS SCOTT THE WOZ POSTED

[@superduperdrew12345]

While Scott is kicking his feet in the air talking about the wii his switch oled is getting mario's face permanently burned into it

[@smashfanwii]

I just want a GameCube selection

[@AbruptAvalanche]

For me, the ideal situation would be if it worked like Steam. You buy a game once, and then you have it forever tied to your account, able to be downloaded regardless of what future hardware you upgrade to. The lack of this feature was somewhat understandable on the Wii, since we didn't even have accounts. There was some grumbling back then, but I think there would have been much more outrage going into the Switch generation if we are use the same Nintendo accounts as on Wii U, yet we need to re-buy all of our games to play them on Switch VC. A subscription service like this was really the only good option for them to get us to pay for the old games again (and keep paying forever). It's...fine, and definitely has it's advantages, but I do prefer to actually own my games.

[@Quinn-kr2cp]

Please, I just want to buy these games and not pay a subscription fee forever

[@randomreviews4278]

Me to

[@partyanimal9382]

Ugh, same!! I don't even have a switch yet, but how the NSO and the switch is marketed and how it operates pisses me off. I want options!! I don't want to be forced to waste money monthly just to play way less than half of the library, play multiplayer if I wanted, or check in weekly to get locked out of the nso subscription. The NSO is so wanky!!

[@fistfullofsalt6311]

I still think it's strange that they would give you A LOT of the NES, SNES, GB, and GBA games that they gave you for free if you pre-ordered the 3DS when it originally release and gave you the "Nintendo Ambassadorship" program to go with it, heck the Ambassador title is still marked on my Nintendo account, so I've been able to download games from the 3DS portion of my account to my Switch still. Nintendo's membership model is very strange and bizarre, as far back as during the Wii era.

[@da_pancake_man]

At least with the virtual console you have more variety, can pick which games you want, and actually have full ownership of your game

[@ahmedhasan4966]

"Ownership"

[@myriadmediamusings]

Concrete ownership? More like intangible ownership, but sure.

[@therealjaystone2344]

That is why I rather download the ROMs for free

[@tsu177]

ownership until they decide you don't own it anymore

[@NCozy]

Ownership as if the store won't go offline and they aren't tied to the piece of hardware you bought it on. I'm assuming NSO will be carried over to the switch 2 and potentially further and if it is then I think it's already better than the virtual console even if the variety isn't there yet. I'm just really hoping they don't slowly drip feed us games ever again.

[@Hutch2Much]

my question is why the hell are the pokemon stadium games on NSO when the main series games are still locked to their original releases the entire thing about the stadium games was the ability to transfer pokemon over from the gameboy games. why is the pokemon company like this.

[@DaileyDoseOfJoseph]

Four Swords being added this week is gonna be the first time I use NSO's multiplayer, and probably the first time I'll ever beat a game on NSO.

[@glubbs5283]

I’ll admit I do try so many more games out with NSO

[@tenthirtyseven-v1]

One thing I don't see too many people bringing up that I really miss is that while n64 games on the Wii weren't exactly 10/10 emulation, in some ways they were actually much more enjoyable to play, with higher, smoother framerates and original glitches, crashes and problems being fixed. It was a looser time where accuracy be damned if it looked better.

[@foolonthehill8410]

Nintendo Executive 1: I wonder how we failed with the Wii U. Nintendo Executive 2: It was probably because of the Virtual Console tbh

[@gligarguy4010]

This, but unironically. It really was not good in the Wii-U era.

[@Markimark151]

When I first got the Wii for virtual console, I was excited in downloading classic games, but some games I regret downloading because they didn’t play well with the wired controllers, I couldn’t play SNES and N64 games with the Wii controller. I already played enough NES games as a kid, that even PC emulators let me connect SNES style USB controllers. But I had fun with Mario Kart 64 and Mario Party 2 on virtual console. But I kind of prefer Switch Online better for just trying out the games, because I’m not repurchasing those games anymore. But at least give people the option to own classic games digitally download!

[@SgtTankDempsey]

Shame this was recorded before the two new GBA games and now N64 rated M games been added

[@Prosper_Dean]

Yeah i was wondering if he'd cover it. It sucks that N64 first person shooters are unable to be mapped to work even remotely like a modern shooter. I've waited so long to play perfect dark again and it was such a letdown that i figured out how download the recently finished fan-made PC port instead.. what a difference mouse and keyboard made in playing an N64 shooter lolol

[@SirEvilestDeath]

18:48 The retro games on Switch DO NOT have Online Multiplayer. They have online split screen. You need another person you know and have added by hand to a list to be able to play. Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Super Smash Brothers Ultimate, Arms…those are online multiplayer Switch games. You can match with random people at any time. I don’t have friends with a Nintendo Switch or time to sync up to play if not in person already so that entire “online” function for these games that I pay an online subscription to be able to access and play online means absolutely nothing to me. Without matchmaking I refuse to call these retro titles online capable. They are online handicapped. Like I mentioned, they are online Splitscreen.

[@unj]

Scott: "when I was a kid I learned and played all the old Nintendo games via the Wii, it was great and opened many doors." also Scott: "but fuck anyone else having that experience with the switch because now I'm done with that."

[@burritoblaster0670]

I love Scott the yap Ong

[@myriadmediamusings]

Some will rightfully say that VC is better by virtue of actually being able to own them yourself, but it’s not as if NSO’s is objectively worse either. Some may not even want to own them and like the convenience of being able to try a bunch of them as part of a package deal.

[@staraptorflock3661]

It is objectively worse

[@batmanbud2]

​@@staraptorflock3661 worse than a hot dookie selection, worse emulation, and steeper prices, plus lack of rewind, filters, multiplayer, and online? Not a chance

[@staraptorflock3661]

@@batmanbud2 At least the Virtual Console game will be in my console after the online services shut down Mario 64 DS will forever live in my Wii U next to my Cube Life Island Survival and Resident Evil Demo

[@batmanbud2]

@@staraptorflock3661 NSO works offline. All you would need is some sort of VPN to bypass the Subscription lock. Besides, this feature is gonna continue in the near future.

[@internetguy7319]

Yeah but will you ACTUALLY play it, or will you buy Super Mario Bros. for $5 for the 4th time on the next system?​@@staraptorflock3661

[@notthegoatseguy]

I'm on a NSO+EP family plan. I bought a membership from Target which cost like $73. Then divide that by 8 and its less than $10 a year.

[@oscarzxn4067]

I'd say that something I feel a lot of people just don't have in consideration when bringing up this topic is that NSO is not the only way to play Retro games on the Switch unlike the previous consoles, well it is for first party stuff sadly, however I always hear people say that the Wii U or Wii had better RETRO LINEUP as a whole than the Switch and that's not true at all, since the Switch has like 3 million collections and individual releases from many consoles, PC and arcade. Between that and NSO, there are incredibly few games that were on any of the VC's that are not on Switch in any form, while the Switch has like a thousand games from consoles that weren't on VC like PS1, Saturn, PS2, Xbox, PSP, Atari and waaaay more Arcade games too. Plus those re releases destroy Virtual Console when it comes to emulation, options and price. So the previous ones are better when it comes to first party (or the Wii U at least), but the Switch is better as a whole, counting third parties.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

This is a good way to put it. When talking strictly first and second party Nintendo IP exclusives, Virtual Console was far and away the better option.

[@TatsuyaWow]

missing alot of Nes SNES and N64 , Ds, 3DS and so on as long all the game are not there piracy will do it if they cant provide the game them self we pirate they gotta do better

[@thinkhector]

One big reason we see a lot of game collections that are sold is because those collections are going to multiple platforms.

[@wlb2j]

So the choice to use Sonic music as your background soundtrack for reviewing Nintendo services did not go unnoticed!

[@roflBeck]

I think I'm one of those people who bitched about having to sub to NSO. I do think Virtual Console was better. I think being able to pick what you want, plus not having to pay continuously until access to it ends, is a good thing.

[@thinkhector]

The thing is Nintendo has the numbers. They know how many people purchase games. They obviously didn't like the numbers, or the engagement numbers.

[@roflBeck]

@@thinkhector Well of course. Having tons of people pay monthly or yearly whether they use the thing or not obviously looks better on the pocketbooks. Doesn't make it more consumer-friendly though.

[@GIN-KUN-EX]

@@roflBeckI find it more wallet friendly. Between all the apps I have almost 300 hrs, with more games I want to play on them. And hopefully they release even more games I’d like to play. I’m kinda glad I don’t have to buy them, some of them for the 3rd time, at like $10+ a pop. $50 a year is pretty good

[@DarthBenneth]

My only real request is to offer basically both options to fans. If you want to own your specific games that can be played on NSO, then you should have that option in the eshop. If you only want to stream and are tired of buying games over and over again, then great you have that option as well. As someone who sold their Wii before college that had all their VC purchases saved on it, and who also skipped the Wii U era, my biggest disappointment with NSO on Switch is that there is no option to buy any of these games that can be played on their streaming apps. I would absolutely love to build up my library again after hopping back into Nintendo with the Switch, but I have never liked not being able to own my favorite titles and instead have to a pay a subscription to play them on the newest hardware. I'm the same for movies and tv shows, I have the subscription, but if I love a property enough I will still buy the Blu-Ray because if the worst happens and I need to cancel all my subscriptions, I don't lose my favorite content.

[@robertboxall4838]

31:00 "If you took all of the games you get on NSO and add it up" The problem is that NSO is a rental/netflix service. Nearing 20 years later I still have my Wii Virtual console games on my Wii but in 20 years there is no way I am going to be able to play NSO. I don't dislike NSO, I just dread the future of it.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

And that ignores the fact that no one wants every single game (or even close) to that- they want their favorites and the classic hits.

[@pablordgz]

12:23 the Wii U can natively play Game Cube games, without emulation (it can't play them on an unmodded console as you don't have any way to actually get the games on the console, but with a modded console it can)

[@statesminds]

I do wish we had the option to buy the games separately on NSO. Like PlayStation lets us do minus like Resident Evil Director’s Cut

[@radaf4429]

That would cost you more money whether you want to admit it or not

[@dialga236]

@@radaf4429 not really, if i could just buy the handfull of nes games id regularly play, itd probably cost me less then nso has over the years :/

[@radaf4429]

@@dialga236 Find it very hard to believe you never played any SNES game or even bothered to try a new NES game

[@dialga236]

@@radaf4429 not sure how thats hard to believe, just because somethings old doesnt mean it cant be fun

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

@@radaf4429I’d buy 10 Nintendo games between the NES, SNES, and GB/C. Not that hard to believe, and not everything holds up.

[@Xelical]

It's kinda funny how people miss virtual console, like back when people were feeling nostalgic is starting to feel nostalgic.

[@Osoros666]

no matter what people tend to say.. i find the price for the entire subscription absolutely fine and dirt cheap. never got the "oOoOo its soooo expensive" stick. its literally just 40¤ a year. ps+ extra (which is the tier to get bang for buck wise) costs way WAY more.

[@careottjuice]

Nintendo online without the extras is really pretty affordable. I still hate the concept of monthly payment tho....

[@Osoros666]

@squidwardwithoutaclue you can pay yearly and save this way. i know noone who doesn't pay yearly to be honest, doesn't matter if ps+extra or nso+expansion

[@internetguy7319]

Why tf are yall in the comments saying monthly - pay once, $20 a year is really cheap​@@careottjuice

[@Raddish-Is-Radd]

I mean in comparison to other gaming subscriptions it's kinda ass, with xbox you can play on practically any device you want. Playstation you don't even have to have a subscription to buy the older games.

[@ThomastheDankEngine8900]

@@Raddish-Is-Raddfacts

[@radzachreview]

Rewind feature is the biggest enhancement for me…I’ve lived through the hard games era…life is hard enough…I want to have fun playing games and rewind when I die so I don’t have a heart attack while I’m trying to “relax”

[@viviennenorthwoods]

the reason mario party 1 hurt kids’ hands wasn’t the mini games, it was the sharp hard plastic joystick the n64 controller had

[@totalmarh]

(In a specific mini game)

[@NukeCaulfield]

The reason Mario Party 2 didn't hurt kids' hands anymore was because they changed the mini-games.

[@dialga236]

it was the minigames, i played mario party 1 with my pro controller with a friend and did it the old fashioned way and it still hurt like hell

[@viviennenorthwoods]

@@dialga236 pro controller thumbsticks have a thick hard ridge on them. i played dbz budokai as a kid which had the exact same thumbstick spinning thing, but the ps2 controller never hurt my hands bc the sticks are soft with no weird ridges or anything

[@TexasHollowEarth]

Scott the Casual..... VC had TurboGrafx CD and SuperGrafx games. Too damn cool 😎👍

[@LoremIpsum1919]

No one gives a toss about Turbografx

[@Akfamilyhome]

"NSO still sucks because you *technically* don't own the games!!" Not like when the service inevitably shuts down in the far future people will just start pirating the emulator apps if they want to keep playing on their Switch lol

[@batmanbud2]

The mod that bypasses the subscription lock for those collections is the only mod I will ever install on anything. Anything that isn't PVZ Heroes, anyway.

[@johnmickey5017]

Yes, and it’s $20/year. That’s like 4 NES games.

[@DanSutherland]

You think in the far future you'll still be able to pirate and emulate? Are you a Linux user?

[@ragefalcondarkswitch28]

And that applies with Sony subscription of PlayStation plus like PlayStation 1, 2 and 3 games you don’t own your mostly rent which is locked behind pay wall which you can’t even buy those games separately at all

[@leeartlee915]

Why wait? My handheld that is truly dedicated to retro games is not my Switch. Why would it be? The console you basically have to have if you wanna play all the retro games of old (including retro handhelds) needs to have duel screens. In other words, you need to mod a 3DS. It’s that simple.

[@ArtemisWasHere]

1:03 I mean… virtual console was an accurate term, for example, running an OS inside another OS, say Linux inside Windows, is called virtualization.

[@BKaimana]

i’ve definitely been enjoying trying out a lot of these games through NSO that I never would have chosen to buy and also having access to a lot of classic game I love, but I wish there was still the ability to purchase specific games for people that want that. Also wish it didn’t take so long for games to get added