NixOS - The Benefits of Being Different?

[@TheLinuxCast]

Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts! - podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-linux-cast/id1247065729 0:00 Intro 2:03 Our Week in FOSS 2:06 Tyler's Week in FOSS 5:08 Matt's Week in FOSS 9:52 NixOS: Is it a Distro? 56:23 Nuggies of the Week 56:45 Tyler's Nuggie 58:14 Matt's Nuggie 1:00:25 Contact Info 1:02:34 Goodbyes

[@shambali293]

I think the explosion of Docker, Flatpak, etc contributed to the upswing in Nix interest. In particular, as the limitations of containerisation became apparent, people started looking for better alternatives and found Nix.

[@StefanoPompa]

I am completely agree! This is an important factor for a deeper exlpanation on why now nixOs is 'the thing'. I would add the advent of IA that reduce complexity...

[@matthiasbendewald1803]

On point. I started to use fedora silverblue and more precisely the bluefin variants, and started to love them. But they were basically a different proposal, you can't change the base system as easily, so you win reliability and lower maintenance but loose the ability to customize and adjust your system. Only NixOS is offering both as far as I know.

[@the_gouda_man]

I tried both for long time. I still prefer containerization because it at least provides some degree of security via sandboxing for example, somehow this concern is very often overlooked. Its especially important if you just need some proprietary app to do your job - at least you get to sandbox and restrict it from rest of the system where it doesn't belong. Nix doesn't resolve this issue.

[@mathiassven]

At 16:40 you say that you can't take the skills you have learned on NixOS and transfer to another distro, I would disagree. NixOS is an abstraction on top of normal Linux and FHS, so a lot of the times I had issues, I had to first go learn "how it is done on Linux" to then be able to fix the abstraction. If anything, using NixOS (to actually make things with Nix) has forced me to learn more about Linux in general than with a normal distro.

[@lordkekz4]

I whole-heartedly agree! I often find myself looking other sources (mostly Arch wiki) to understand what I want Nix to do for me. In this way, NixOS also benefits from the great documentation for other distros.

[@oserodal2702]

I think what Matt's missing in his whole spiel about 'NixOS being different' is the fact that NixOS makes clean shells dead simple. No more worrying about accidentally overwriting environment variables or bad dependencies or shaky shell scripts. What you have is what you declared in your shell.nix or flake.nix file, which is a software developer's wet dream (and thus may not appeal to a certain audience).

[@oserodal2702]

Hot take: Moving away from FHS is s good thing.

[@TakeThisLove]

40:59 I don't think it is a fair comparation in this particular case, especially with gentoo. Gentoo is hard for literally no reason. It doesn't solve any existing problems by introducing this complexity. Arch reevaluated the decision about the installer, and now it is not pain in the ass for no reason anymore. NixOS, on the other hand, solves tones of existing problems, especially in the professional world. No one ever before didn't make the declarative configuration management of the system so damn good and fast. Prove me wrong! I know what I am talking about because I worked with all of ever existing configuration management systems throughout my career. They are all slow, hard to configure, and manage. NixOS is not that complex if you start to compare it with the other configuration management systems. Then NixOS didn't stop there and made it immutable, and you can have a state of the system that you can roll back at any time. That was a HUGE problem, and NixOS solved it. NixOS is complex not because it wanted you to flex in front of your friends in school. It is complex because it tries to solve real-world problems.

[@TakeThisLove]

Talking about popularity. I think NixOS first gained popularity in the professional world because it solves many existing problems. For instance, Hashicorp started using NixOS in their build systems before all that hype. My guess is what happened next is all these software and devops engineers started trying to use it as daily driver. That's exactly what happened to me. Only then I found out that it is quite popular on unixporn and other linux related subs

[@fosattiems]

Based

[@andrabtedja]

I agree with you. Maybe I can describe that NixOS uses a magic script called configuration.nix that builds something from everything that has been declared from it, and does the same to everyone using it (if we talk about reproducibility). This configuration is recorded so the users can read the history because nobody will remember everything they had configured on their system. And nothing changed dramatically outside from what we don't change from the config file. So the system will run more predictable and this will leads to immutability (until it changed and rebuilt).

[@MichaelWilliams-lr4mb]

As far as why now, NixOS was more of an experiment for a long time. I think it became more usable in recent years.

[@Nebulorum]

Docker and declarative configurations are the basis of a lot of kubernetes deployment and cloud infrastructure. The concept is clear and tempting for anyone using modern cloud deployment. Now you can track the bleeding edge and rollback is really interesting.

[@htx80nerd]

I never heard of NixOS until ~1 month ago on a random youtube recommendation

[@hooflung128]

It is not a case of semantics. NixOS is a Linux distro. It doesn’t matter how it works. It has a different system up convention than common distros because other distros followed an established convention.

[@jeremymcguire7069]

Tyler... My giddy aunt, your explanation of streamlining flakes is more confusing than picking the right flags to compile a kernel for gentoo. Also, you rock. :)

[@redrush-hp9li]

make localmodconfig, there u go u got the right kernel configured for ur kernel. IF U don't want to just use gentoo-kernel-bin for some reason

[@VioletJewel1729]

You said (paraphrasing), "NixOS is *not a distro* "; then mini-ranted about how people were criticizing you; and the said, "it's one of those *distros* that's at the forefront of the Linux community". I don't mean to be pedantic, but that is pretty funny. It is a distribution not just by definition but because that is a useful label - hence, why you naturally called it a distro. Labels are boxes, but these boxes can flex to accommodate slightly different occurrences. hehehe

[@MichaelWilliams-lr4mb]

While I was using Nix OS, I didn't use Home Manager. Actually I tried it briefly but it limited what I could do freely in my home directory for me. I had to do everything through Home Manager. I was fine with the configuration file for the system, but I didn't want to have the home directory work the same way. I can see why people want to use Home Manager, though. I may go back to NixOS but right now I'm using my own MX Linux respin, Fearless Geek OS. I included the Nix package manager with it.

[@brinkoo7]

It's about time there is a linux distro that is different. For those who do a lot of infra as code this distro is just another amazing tool.

[@htx80nerd]

2:02 Tyler sipping mountain dew like a gentleman

[@magnificoas388]

Matt, NixOS is just killing the distro hopping thing.

[@htx80nerd]

'why now' companies / server admins figured out how awesome it would be for roll outs - this is what I've heard

[@jgoemat]

36:30 - it's natural for front end developers, seems like a package-lock.json file for node where it specifies exactly what you have installed so you can reproduce your system exactly... 45:00 - Why now? I don't know, this is the first I've heard of a system like this. nix-shell sounds awesome for developers. Have an 8 year old Angular 4 app you don't want to upgrade and need node 10 to run? Forgot that password or api key for the deploy? nix-shell to it and you have the exact environment and settings After upgrading your computer and reinstalling 3 times over the years... Sounds awesome to me.

[@j_t_eklund]

IMO What you call a "Linux distribution" is actually a "OS distribution using the Linux kernel and GNU tools" ... That is 'how' you are wrong. - If you use Nix(OS) the right way you will automatically learn enough to become a poweruser in any other "OS distribution".

[@MichaelWilliams-lr4mb]

And you will always start bash scripts with #!/usr/bin/env bash rather than #!/bin/bash.

[@ChrisMcDonough]

One reason NixOS is a thing is because folks like you keep posting about it. Another is that every other distribution has become a clone of all the others, and there are problems that are unsolved amongst those.

[@pupip55]

For me it's the reusability, self cleaning which makes it perfect for me and centralised management. With an amazing rolebacks system.

[@jotix2570]

NixOS also kill my distrohopping addiction... It's solve the problem of maintaining multiple machines flawlessly.

[@htx80nerd]

I was drawn to nix (barely used it so far) because it would be cool for Work PC #2 to be exactly the same as Work PC #1. And then if I end up with Work PC #3 (due to system failure of 1 or 2) it'd be nice to get it 'up and running' easy.

[@Tired_Night_Owl_in_the_Woods]

So... If we imagine all the parts of a system as lego-blocks, is Flakes somewhat a place where you store your manuals for building different figurines and on choosing one of them the system just builds it according to the manual?😅 Have I understood it right?

[@abelgerli]

Used it loved it. Being able to test new things with being able to have nearly unlimited snapshots for my config calms my mind. And lowers the threshold in your head to try new think without then thought in your head what amount of time it costs if you screw up.

[@Muaahaa]

I started using Nix about 2 years when I was looking for an alternative to Homebrew for installing packages on my Mac. I came across a video from another newb talking about using Nix in totally the wrong way as an alternative and gave it a go. I liked the idea that I'd be able to use the same configuration across my Mac and Linux machines. I do work in software and currently have a DevOps sort of role, but I used to be a developer before that.

[@Spencerhadley]

My problem with Matt’s strategy of assuming people are morons until he can see their intelligence is that he is clearly leaving his blind spots unexamined. The eMacs to Vim is analogous to NixOS to all other distros has truth in it if you don’t see the shortcomings. Once you know and have configured your Nix flakes or configuration files they can easily act as a manifest of your preferences. Emacs and vim usage have muscle memory issues that I don’t accumulate with Nix.

[@TheLinuxCast]

In my defense, I think I go on to say I'm a moron too. :shrugs:

[@Spencerhadley]

@@TheLinuxCast Alright, true enough. I think you got it in you to see the good in yourself and others. I'll leave it be though.

[@zeocamo]

you can see a nix shell as if you start bash in bash but this new bash got more programs then the one you start it from, nix link the extra software in the shell, just like it do when you build nix, but the shell is not saved and if you quit it the links is gone, the software is still install but you can't call it.

[@htx80nerd]

'doing something difficult ' - yes sure you can brag, but you also get a sense of accomplishment. I did a debian minimal 'netinstall' and had to setup everything manually. It was hard, things didnt work. But in the end it was a much more satisfying situation than clicking 'next next next' on a GUI Linux OS installer.

[@esra_erimez]

This video is interesting and informative

[@glebglub]

part of my guess in why Nix OS has only just started to get noticed is because 10-15 years ago it took 5 hours to install an OS, but now it takes 5 minutes. it's the same reason nobody tries to overclock their RAM; 1 test is just hours of sitting there, waiting... beforehand it was "I wanna install ONCE not because I'm lazy, but my hardware is ASS and I'm STILL ON DIAL-UP" ...maybe

[@zeburgerkang]

What you don't use scratch?

[@warthunder1969]

NixOS is quite weird from what little experience I have with it. Matt's comments at least made me feel like I'm not crazy

[@brod515]

@5:24... I almost fell laughing... I basically just watch content to hear you. I don't even know much about distros

[@This_Guy-]

Nix is interesting in concept. I hate immutable part i like where you take your config and install in multiple computers . If arch implement this config thing then damn . I use arch by the way

[@andrabtedja]

NixOS is not immutable in my opinion. It has a different approach like Silverblue. Cmiiw

[@warthunder1969]

Can say that LUG was fun and is worth joining.

[@tabletaccountforyoutube]

Can any NixOS gurus tell me what the "correct" or recommend way to install software would be? Do you just edit the config file, and the have it pull down the new packages? Or are you supposed to use "flakes" whatever that is? Reason I ask, is because I thought I was doing it right but then saw that in the NixOS website that the way I'm doing it is being depreciated or wrong. In any case I'm just utterly confused.

[@zeocamo]

i am newish to nixos, but i know enough to answer your question, there is no "correct" way, but yes it is just to edit the config file, as flakes is still in beta, but many that is using Nixos say that flakes should not be in beta any more. so way i done this is with flakes, i made a .dotfiles in my home folder, and i get my flake in there and flakes get the hostname in as a argument when you build it, so i got a folder with the name of my laptop and workstation hostname, so i can have the hardware config there. but see Tyler's nix config it is a good start

[@kdb424]

It's all declarative, so you'll want to edit the files. The only big things you can't declare on NixOS normally is nix channels, and locking package versions, which is all flakes does. Most of what "flakes" code is, is just normal nix code. If you don't need version locking, or managing multiple systems from the same set of shared files, it's not a big deal to most people.

[@tristen_grant]

I think NixOS doesn't like my Intel Arc A750. I can go through the installer but past that, its just the tty. Can't get it to work at all. :(

[@richardlesperance8259]

I am a linux nube dumb ass for 8 years now and i use Manjaro!!!

[@conjurermast]

I have a really dumb question about Nix. Is it possible to install binaries, or outside of flatpak etc you have to compile every time you want to install something, as if Arch only had the AUR?

[@iynaix644]

Yes, you can create new packages / override existing ones and they will automatically be compiled every time one of their dependencies is updated. Your custom packages are managed as part of the system.

[@angeldude101]

The recommended method is to install from source and package the application in a Nix derivation if it's not already in nixpkgs. It is possible however to run binary packages in a number of ways, including hot-patching the binary to change where it looks for dependencies, using steam-run to run the application in a chroot that presents itself as a normal Linux system (the name coming from the software that the method was originally designed for and that people were _really_ interested in running on NixOS), or using nix-ld and envfs to redirect the usual /usr/bin and /lib to point to their nix store equivalents.

[@richardlesperance8259]

They say it doesn't break???

[@andrabtedja]

It doesn't break. What actually happens is you fail to rebuild if there are errors in the configuration file. Easy rollback is one of the features.

[@magnificoas388]

Well well I think the new hype about NixOS is caused by the new graphical installer ! And people like Tyler discovered NixOS like this :)

[@VictoriaMan69]

I'm here for the nuggies.

[@htx80nerd]

haha @ the openSUSE comment 1:50

[@kennethpaulsen7510]

18:25

[@QWERD195]

i'd define flakes as a system of distribution of reusable nix constructs (which might or might not be related to each other). A nix construct is a nixos config, nixos module, nix shell, a regular app, etc.

[@xbz24]

nice

[@snowSecurityneeded]

I love nixOS, Do not use it if you have no need for the features and benefits it gives. please don't try and make it an arch meme.

[@HasaniTempest]

Have you tried Zorin OS?

[@andrabtedja]

Zorin is another Ubuntu Flavor. It's great for beginners, but it's in a different case if compared to Arch or NixOS

[@j_t_eklund]

No handholding is done in NixOS community by default.. Thus you need to learn how to use it and understand what you do. There is no actual straight line/guide to follow. Because YOU build your system the way you want it to be. - This is also why it is gaining so much ground. It teaches people to be smarter.

[@Xarius86]

Lol. It used to be Arch elitism...I see it has migrated to another home.

[@j_t_eklund]

@@Xarius86 Not really, moore so that the design is such that you have to learn to use it. There is plenty of help to access. Many people who give of their own time to help solve problems.

[@kdb424]

@@Xarius86 At least when the Arch people said "RTFM" it was truly because the manual, and all of the Arch docs are so extensive that they have become the de-facto standard docs for all Linux distributions to reference. Nix docs are lacking, but the longer I use it, the more I learn it's nearly impossible to write docs the way people expect them to exist.

[@oserodal2702]

​​@@kdb424Looking from outside in, there are 3? officially -supported- endorsed docs (discounting the man pages), with none of them giving proper attention to nix flakes. At this point, just try it for yourself and see how it goes. The distro itself is able to do rollbacks anyway, so breaking changes are less of an issue than in other distros.