No Dry Hop American IPA - Big Whirlpool Additions Experiment

How much hop aroma can you get by just doing late kettle whirlpooling and no dry hopping?
The point of this experimental endeavor is to see is we can make a beer with enough aroma and still call it IPA without having to open the fermentor during or after fermentation and expose the beer to oxygen. Knowing that oxidation is the number one killer of hop character in NEIPA, Mike wanted to load up on a whirlpool addition, allowing a good amount of green material to enter the fermentor and see how much aroma there is post ferment.
We give this beer a taste and think about future adaptations of the method or recipe to get more aroma in an already decent IPA.
Cheers!
Recipe:
71% Pilsner Malt
14.5% Munich (7L)
14.5% White Wheat Malt
1oz/28g Nugget 60min
1oz each Amarillo, Azacca, Centennial 5min
1oz each Amrillo, Azzacca, Centennial Flame-out, immediate start of chill with active whirlpooling.
Imperial Yeast A20 Citrus
#NoDryHops #BeerExperiment #BrewDudes
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[@jacksonakson8224]

"I want something that is still drinkable..." That speaks volumes about many modern-day IPA's. Cheers!

[@BrewDudes]

True!

[@laurenceprantner8618]

I use this method all the time. What you failed to mention is the most important part of "no dry hop"; you eliminate Dry Hop Creep. Thanks for the video, keep 'em coming!

[@skleice]

Happy Holidays! I recommend that you try soft crashing the yeast to 50-55° for a couple days before dry hopping. I have found this to have the biggest impact on hop bite. Also, dry hop for just 2 days and then transfer. Cheers!

[@Bohern1]

THIS. I just did this on a NEIPA and it has zero hop bite / burn, worked like a charm

[@BrewDudes]

So basically you're advocating a "cold" dryhop. Sounds good to me. Cheers! -Mike

[@Bohern1]

@@BrewDudes I think the 2 days of a soft cold crash helping the yeast to drop then 2 days on top of that to hop is the key. I just did a 8.2% NEIPA and it has zero burn, before doing this I got hop burn everytime it seemed. Love the channel, Cheers!

[@skleice]

@@BrewDudes yeah, the key is to drop the yeast for a couple of days first. I believe it has to do with the polyphenols interacting with the yeast in suspension. I'm no scientist, but I've seen a huge improvement since doing this. Anecdotal ftw!

[@ReishiSamurai]

mERRY xMAS from Croatia ! Great channel. You two are amazing ! Great and smart infos !

[@BrewDudes]

Thank you very much!

[@omarpadilla4739]

I love harsh hops in small amounts. Chinook 10 IBUs @ 60 min, 15 @ 30 min, and a 2 to 1 sulfate to chloride is my bitter base for the later flavor/aroma additions . A chloride dominant profile makes no sense to me for a west coast. Also, nothing beats a 48 hr dry hop for aroma. Use magnets.

[@grumpycyclist3319]

Thanks men, I’ve never enjoyed the grassy bite of dry hopping. Great video. Merry Christmas!

[@BrewDudes]

Cheers! -Mike

[@chrisedwards4749]

This is an awesome experiment I'd love to see more on testing the new methods of hp flavoring like whirlpools and such.

[@BrewDudes]

GOOD! I have plenty more hopping ideas I want to try as I continue to read about some of the best practices for hopping. CHEERS! -Mike

[@jesseh9600]

Love the video guys. Just a thought on not exposing the beer to oxygen. On a recent IPA I brewed I did a whirlpool addition similar to the way you did yours. As the beer approached the tail end of fermentation I transferred it to a purged keg which I then added a stainless hop cylinder with my dry-hop addition. My thought is that if the beer is still actively fermenting, the yeast in suspension should still be able to scrub any oxygen that I might pick up on the transfer to the keg. Leaving the keg at room temp to finish fermenting (as there is still plenty of yeast in suspension to finish out). I put some c02 pressure on the keg in hopes of eliminating oxygen as much as possible. I am occasionally rousing the keg with co2 pressure on it to try to extract as much from the hops as possible. I'll give it a few more days and check gravity again. Once gravity is stable I will do a completely closed transfer from dip tube to dip tube into another purged keg, then crash & carbonate. I am interested to see how this method works out. Just another idea along the lines you are talking about, eliminating oxygen exposure at all costs but still being able to dry hop. Cheers!

[@BrewDudes]

That is a popular practice and it does seem to work for plenty people. I'm lazy and was curious how much hop aroma I could jam in with that final kettle addition. Cheers! -Mike

[@keifereef9673]

Great vid as always and lots to take away from this, happy new year dudes!

[@BrewDudes]

Happy new year!

[@Dunbardoddy]

I was taught that to avoid harsh late hop bite - add the very final hops no later than day 2 or 3 of fermentation as a hot hop tea to the FV. The yeast and remaining fermentation seem to mellow the harsh late hop. I discussed this with a former Director of The International Centre for Brewing and Distilling and we agreed that adding hops later usually gives too harsh a hop flavour.

[@BrewDudes]

Thank you for the tip - appreciate the contribution! - John

[@philclifton6813]

I would say add a dry hop, but no more than 4g per litre, 2g may be enough. And restrict to 24-48 hours. Thanks for another great video fellas.

[@BrewDudes]

Yeah. I think that might be the next evolution of this experiment. The main thing here was to see how much hop aroma I would get without having to open it up and then seeing how long that aroma lasts due to the completely closed system. Time will tell. Cheers! -Mike

[@laurenceprantner8618]

I have been, in the last month, dry hopping at yeast pitch; works very well indeed

[@BrewDudes]

Thank you. This seems to make me happy with my hoppy beers. Cheers! -Mike

[@bigfishhunter6801]

As always good info, cheers!

[@BrewDudes]

Thanks for watching. Cheers! -Mike

[@iamonky]

Awesome!

[@BrewDudes]

Glad you liked it. Cheers! -Mike

[@jaskats1]

for aroma, I used 2 oz per ever 1 gallon in the whirlpool (ex, 10 oz of hops for a 5 gallon batch) and this worked. I may try 2.5 oz per gallon next time.

[@BrewDudes]

Good tip - thank you! - John

[@Nickubus99]

I'm going try set my next brew up with the dry hop addition magneted on to the underside of the fermenter lid. Hoping the lack of oxygen means they don't degrade too much under there. Then on day 3, boom unclip the magnet and watch the hops sink to the bottom. THEN once fermented a cold crash to try drop that green matter out as much as possible. Fingers crossed.

[@BrewDudes]

Best wishes on the new process and brew on. - John

[@absintheminded866]

Saccharomyces trois is my favorite yeast, I feel like it's criminally underrated. I've used it for stouts with success as well. My only issues is turnaround time.

[@BrewDudes]

This is one of those things that I've wanted to explore and I just don't always remember to add it to my list. Thanks for the reminder. Cheers! -Mike

[@MrDgmiller]

Do the magnet trick. Place your hops in a bag with weights and a magnet. Place the bag under the lid of your fermenter and secure it with a magnet on the outside and when you want to dryhop Pull the magnet and release your hops.

[@BrewDudes]

I've ready about this quite a bit and I think its a neat trick. I wonder though seems like it would need to be a relatively small bag to keep the hops out of the beer until it was time to pull them. Its always seemed to be to be a better idea applied in reverse. Dry hop with magnets then after your dryhop period is over flip the keg over to capture the bag and pull it out of the beer. Cheers! -Mike

[@troykase9472]

I think that a thiolized yeast might really help to produce what you are seeking.

[@BrewDudes]

We've tried that. I find the thiolized yeast strains to almost create to much of a fruit extract like flavor quality. Its certainly what the marketing department wanted and I am sure IPA enthusiasts love the end product. Its just a bit too much for me. Cheers! -Mike

[@paulbilodeau8569]

Great video. Merry Christmas. Are you using a filter when you tramsfer into the fermetor?

[@BrewDudes]

No filter. I have a pick up tube from the side of the kettle but I'm not fastidious about letting the hops cone up and settle prior to transfer. I did that on purpose to be sure to pick up some green material in the fermentor. Cheers! -Mike

[@ianharrison295]

Great ideas in this video, partic on attaining benefits of dry hopping, without dry hopping, Do you have a guesstimate of the total IBUs of the brew? Cheers.

[@BrewDudes]

This beer had 30IBU (calculated) of Nugget at 60 minutes. There was an addition 6 oz of hops added at the end, none of those mean anything when it comes to IBUs so I'm not going to estimate that. Cheers! -Mike

[@jespermadsen1200]

Very interesting. I’m aiming to do something similar. Can i assume that hop amount is for a 5 gallon batch? Do you remember the IBU? Maybe even for each hop addition?

[@MadZer0]

I’ve been wanting to do a dry hop only beer for a while. I’ve dry hoped with nugget before and gotten some great spicy floral character

[@michaelchristian9752]

Used to do this when i didn't have a chiller. Works well.

[@BrewDudes]

I haven't ventured that far yet but it is pencilled in as an experiment at somepoint. It might be a great way to use up some of the cryo/lupomax hops we have. Cheers! -Mike

[@maxe6538]

Merry Christmas and happy holidays guys

[@BrewDudes]

Cheers to you and yours! -Mike

[@erickm2918]

Should be called Brew Dads lol

[@BrewDudes]

Yeah... yeah.

[@tman9338]

Super interested the effect of this batch if you did no chill The flavors profile sounds great. Your thoughts?

[@BrewDudes]

I would expect to lose some of the aroma and flavor character as it was here, but that's not necessarily saying it would be a negative, just different. Cheers! -Mike

[@andrewbarker1190]

What about cooling the whirlpool to 78c and then adding the hops? The lower temp might preserve a few more of those volatile aroma compounds.

[@BrewDudes]

Absolutely. There are many ways to get to the goal of boosted hop aroma. -Mike

[@imacracker515]

I like the idea of a higher chloride to sulfate ratio. I just recently (5ish batches so far) started playing with water chemistry and been doing a higher sulfate to chloride because I like more hop forward beers. And my limited research is showing higher sulfate for more hop character. Currently using Brunwater calculator. I have been wanting to try a higher chloride to see how I feel about that. Maybe I missed it, but can you share you water profile you used?

[@BrewDudes]

The profile for this beer was. 116ppm Ca, 295ppm Cl, 116 ppm SO4, 114 Na. FWIW its worth sulfate does not favor "hop character". NEIPA has a ton of hop character. Sulfate and chloride simple change the nature of the character/presentation. Sulfate tends to make the hop more aggressive and more biting. It works great when its used for something where bitterness is wanted. You can subdue the bittering perception of hops when the chloride is in the lead. The amount of hop character you get in any beer is really dictated only by the amount of hops being used. The sulfate of chloride only change the perception of the quality of the hop character. I hope that makes sense. Cheers! -Mike

[@imacracker515]

@@BrewDudes Super helpful! Thanks for taking the time to respond. Also it is good to know I can go higher than 100ppm on Chloride. The notes in Brunwater had a preferred range of 10-100ppm. I think Im going to try much higher Chloride ratio on my next brew. Super excited to try this out. Thanks again for the response.

[@stefanshelenko4487]

Call it an Indiana Plains Ale!😷

[@BrewDudes]

Fly over IPA?? Cheers! -Mike

[@tman9338]

Recommended dry yeast to bring out max citrus flavor for this recipe???

[@BrewDudes]

Depends on the yeast I supposed. I don't know of dry yeast itself being something special because its dry. Care to elaborate for me? Cheers! -Mike

[@tman9338]

@@BrewDudes Recommended dry yeast? I don’t use liquid yeast and thought there might be a strain that bring out citrus flavor?

[@vizzo7]

when you did the whirlpool did you leave the kettle open?

[@BrewDudes]

I do, yes. - John

[@vizzo7]

@@BrewDudes and did you pump the liquor afterwards in order to cool it down afterwards?

[@Joelification1]

What did you mash at?

[@BrewDudes]

152 is my usual mash temp for something like this. Cheers! -Mike

[@fEkuaR]

With a fox in a box lol