No, Windows 11 Does NOT Ruin Gaming Performance (Don't Disable VBS)

[@ThioJoe]

▼ Some additional points to emphasize: ▼ • Yes there is a somewhat consistent but small performance hit (but not always) - Importantly, I *personally* consider a ~5% performance hit negligible because there are probably other factors that affect it way more. I would say 10% is not negligible, and 20-30% would indeed be crippling if that was the case. Clearly some people are getting massive 30% hits in certain limited circumstances but I think there must be another compounding factor at play that does indeed need to be investigated. • In my opinion, 5% is a totally acceptable tradeoff to get the extra security that VBS and VBS+HVCI offer, so I would definitely recommend enabling it on Windows 11. On Windows 10 though, only IF you have an 8th gen or later Intel CPU that has the MBEC feature - anything earlier WILL have a big performance hit most likely. • You may consider 5% to be totally unacceptable, and decide to turn off VBS altogether, which is totally within your rights, but I just want to make sure you are doing it FULLY informed about the true performance cost or lack thereof (disabling VBS altogether is actually tougher than it sounds, I had to do it with the registry, and the instructions are not always clear from Microsoft, you'll have to try several things. Also remember disabling memory integrity does not disable VBS) • Some have mentioned there is a bigger problem with AMD Ryzen processors, which I cannot speak to because I tested Intel. I will say that the PC Gamer article also tested on an Intel 10th gen, so my tests as a comparison are not moot. For AMD stats, I refer you to the Tom's Guide article link in the description, where they tested both Intel and AMD. • You can check if you have Virtualization Based Security running by searching the start menu for "System Information" and looking for "Virtualization Based Security" which will either say "Running" or "Not Enabled". As for memory integrity, if you are having trouble enabling it even though you have no conflicting drivers shown, you can enable it through group policy editor under "Device Guard" (just look up the instructions).

[@BCGaming666]

Hi

[@Kat21]

Hello ThioJoe, been watching since the old videos like how to get free tv cable :)

[@yourlifenarratedby6217]

ThioJoe? My good man, you’ve ‘REALLY’ stepped-up your game. In my opinion, you’ve gone above and beyond at explaining all of this. Seriously, you get a 12/10 to me. Keep up the great work! 😉👍🏽

[@BARAAGAMER_YT]

Blessed Friday,and you're creative keep going✨✨✨✨✨.. Sender:your brother (Baraa) from Palestine 🇵🇸🇺🇲

[@AndersHass]

All of Intel 7th gen should also have MBEC as far as I know (or at least my i5-7200U got). So I don't understand why they aren't supported in Windows 11

[@raawesome3851]

Thank you for being an honest creator rather than looking for clicks.

[@KryzysX]

Yeah i Agree with that !! That's da thing i luv in Thio :>

[@cubeir]

thumbnail is still clickbait though 🤣

[@raawesome3851]

@@cubeir no, it's not clickbait.

[@cubeir]

@@raawesome3851 1. I'm joking if It's not obvious already 2. there's no destroy performance or VBS switch on windows 11, someone might just think there's an option to turn off for it, so they click vid.

[@nsawatchlistbait289]

You know, that wasn't how he was a couple of years ago

[@ChrisTitusTech]

The big thing you missed was AMD chips do indeed suffer a 15% decrease in performance, which I believe engaget covered as AMD said they are working on a patch for this. Should be fixed soon... but overall I do agree don't disable VBS from what I am seeing. Most high end laptops still use intel, but many desktop users will see a a 15% cpu dip from this upgrade on AMD Ryzen. It should be noted, most games are GPU heavy and shouldn't see a 30% dropoff like PC gamer article said, but I'm still doing testing myself.

[@login98]

yes

[@FireFoxDestroyer]

If they dont fix this then that means Is Microsoft siding with Intel?

[@mihailomarkovic6285]

Amd is literally working on it rn, it has nothing to do with windows

[@stevenhe3462]

@@FireFoxDestroyer I would say Microsoft test their systems on Intel. If you see that "Windows 10 does not use AMD memory correctly" video you will see.

[@sneedsneed460]

Zero performance drops at all on my 10900K system

[@minimvl]

In all honestly I feel like games are running more smoothly in some situations. Borderless windowed mode is actually usable for me in some games now.

[@mikhaelcool7]

CPU ?

[@minimvl]

10850

[@magnarex]

Definitely, for me I have a laptop and on battery performance has gotten significantly better and on adapter performance has gone through the roof, in some games I went from stutters at points to completely smooth gameplay. My cpu is a i7 11370H

[@mikhaelcool7]

@@minimvl Is 7th gen supported yet ?

[@The_One_Eyed_Rouge]

More input lag though

[@E-1337]

bro I remember when you were a meme, you did an absolutely fantastic job, I can tell you genuinely care about this. please keep up the brilliant work, it's genuinely helping people understand their hardware and software, and not just blindly following the trending topics.

[@E-1337]

but for real where can i download more ram at? ;)

[@WisdomAkpan211]

Bruh I remember when this guy's channel was all about trolling people xD

[@williaamlarsson]

I'm still not 100% sure if he's serious or trolling

[@MsGoblin5]

@@williaamlarsson ^

[@stoway8459]

BROOO LOOOOL SO NOSTALGIC WHEN I WAS A DUMB 8 YEARS OLD KID STILL THIS MAN TOLD ME TO DOWNLOAD MORE RAM LMFAO (im 17 now)

[@ikj2673]

Yes Guys he is right. I did a clean install of Win 11 3 days ago. When I read the articles about gaming performance, I was really scared. So, I decided to do the testing myself, I have around 36 games and I am a gamer I have played for really long periods I play them with fps counter on often. So, I know what kind of performance my RTX 2060 gives me. And yesterday I did the testing and played them all for some time. I am glad to find that there was 0 to 1% difference in performance. Also in some games like Call of Duty Warzone, It ran the smoother than ever.

[@cheehuigoh9363]

My pc run smooth on win11 too, performance didn't drop...

[@christohees9150]

And go back to win 10 and see you avg higher fps 😉

[@windowstips1430]

@@christohees9150 Nope, better on 11 for me

[@christohees9150]

@@windowstips1430 have a look at counter strike and higher fps games 😉

[@windowstips1430]

@@christohees9150 it's the same

[@ckingpro]

Device Guard is now called WDAC (Windows Defender Application Control). But yeah, the acronym soup is really annoying at times causing confusion. A very simple description of all of this: We need to begin with VBS itself. So as you might (or might not) know, kernel mode has far higher privileges and access than the normal usual mode (known as user mode) where all your programs run. For example, it sets up page tables to make sure each process can't access another process's memory and handles sensitive operations like file I/O, memory mapping etc. This is all really nice and provides privilege isolation. But, drivers run in kernel mode and many of them can have bugs. Many of the linux kernel (which has drivers for devices in the codebase) and Windows kernel vulnerabilities are from drivers. Plus, many of the protections like memory permissions including no-execute (DEP) of the kernel are handled by the page tables in the kernel which a driver can just change. There is Patchguard which uses checks that are heavily obfuscated and change regularly to try and make it harder to exploit the kernel (but security through obscurity is not a security barrier) and it only protects certain regions. What VBS allows you to do is run Windows essentially inside a VM (don't worry, all your hardware is passed through so no emulation involved). When you boot, a separate secure kernel first boots, and sets up the virtualization and then normal kernel boots. It can enforce code signing of kernel drivers (hence HVCI: Hypervisor-Protected Code Integrity) and locks them. Even if a malicious driver or exploit changes the page tables, the secure kernel through now controls the memory and protects that. VBS also guards regions the regions PatchGuard protected and all executable memory in the kernel must go through code-signing protected by the secure kernel (this is called Hyperguard and is separate from HVCI. Hyperguard works if VBS is enabled, and does not require HVCI. The executable kernel memory check is handled by HVCI). This also means drivers must not create new executable regions or do JIT (which is why some drivers are incompatible). It also blocks known vulnerable drivers even if they are signed (which is huge). The code signing part is Kernel-Mode Code Integrity (may be done in the kernel or under VBS). VBS also allows Control Flow Guard (CFG) in the Kernel (although explaining that would need its own post) There's also UMCI (Usermode code integrity) but that is used by Windows Defender Application Control (previously Device Guard). This is an enterprisey feature that only allows programs that match certain code signatures (there's a lot more than just this, but this is a simplification). Windows 10 S mode was a way to try and bring this to home users, but Microsoft Store then was useless. This is where Mode-Based Execution Control (MBEC) came in (GMET is AMD's branding of this, Guest Mode Execute Trap). Previously, the way hypervisor would take control was from any new page of executable memory. This would require the secure kernel to take control, check if it is kernel or usermode executable memory and then do checks for kernel memory for signing. As you can imagine, launching or modifying any process would require these checks (and things like browsers which do JIT to execute code like javascript require even more switches between secure kernel and normal kernel). MBEC allows the chip to only trap executable memory for kernel, making this much faster.

[@junkname9983]

many drivers are now moved to user mode. The problem is that there's a bunch of legacy kernel mode drivers that will break if you block them from executing in kernel mode, but really, people should be move away from using those things if they want their system to be secure.

[@MAADUKTV]

It’s not about FPS, it’s about stuttering. Core isolation make stuttering in games.

[@chilljoee]

THIS!!!

[@roshinthomaskoshy115]

I installed windows 11 on my old PC (2nd gen) using the method seen in LTT. I also run windows 10 on the same system. From my brief usage I found W11 performs better than W10, epecially the disk usage(mostly 100% in W10 but settles to low percentage in W11). Another change I noticed is the performance increase(10-20%) in KZbin playback (Noticable for 1080p 60fps videos at 1.25x or 1.5x).

[@KokoSword]

WoW great 👍☺️

[@Aymen-re69]

great news i cant wait to install it i will install it in October 10

[@IvanRiveraStagea]

To be fair, VBS and Memory Integrity are probably not available on that older machine.

[@Woodzta]

Yeah, I'm on an unsupported 4th Gen and disk usage definitely seems lower. I did a clean install so it might be misleading but I'm impressed by the performance differences that I feel.

[@IvanRiveraStagea]

@@Woodzta It is more responsive on older machines as it has more optimizations for lower spec hardware. These security features that are being discussed are unavailable on pre-TPM 2.0 devices, however.

[@Rasherplayz]

I noticed about 3-4 FPS increase after upgrading to Win 11, Thanks for spreading this info to people!.Also, my pc is low end but i still get FPS increase

[@StopRemindingMeOfThoseDays]

Specs?

[@Bunuffin]

fresh install?

[@Rasherplayz]

@@Bunuffin nah, i installed it about an month ago-

[@Rasherplayz]

@@Bunuffin i already have a lot of programs and games which usually used to make win10 slow, but win11 runs just fine except multitasking more then 3 programs causes a bit lag

[@Rasherplayz]

@@StopRemindingMeOfThoseDays Intel Core i3 2120 3.30 GHZ (2 Cores) 8GB RAM Intel HD 2000 (32mb) Optiplex 790 from 2012

[@Oscar.P]

Updated to 11 a couple of days ago on my 4800h HP omen 15 and I don't have any issues, some games run even better.

[@userunknown1030]

well i saw no improvements also i don't think i will be switching on principle microsoft said windows was the last windows i would ever need and seems they where correct. other then the fact they made another one i guess that must be for other people lol.

[@null6482]

@@userunknown1030 idk man...my pc is so much faster in win 11

[@null6482]

@@userunknown1030 and (almost everyone) says that win 11 is the same or even faster than win 10

[@userunknown1030]

@@null6482 yeah i guess it varies from set up to set up. though like i said i don't see the point to switching the one thing they where adding that i thought was cool was they where going to natively support android apps then i find out it is only useable at the moment with the amazon store apps which killed it for me on windows 10 i have now i can run all android apps but it is through a third party which is fine i just though cool i wont have to use them anymore but i was wrong lol.

[@userunknown1030]

@@null6482 well i guess the point to my last comment is that windows 11 isn't that much of an improvement in my day to day so there really is no point of moving to it.

[@META313.]

I get 67fps in Cyberpunk in-game benchmark with VBS on and 75fps with VBS off. I have no clue how your testing went but my result is more than enough for me to instantly disable it.

[@airnox726]

But how is it in game? Because that's where your cpu will get to work.

[@del-chicken2641]

They should put a disclaimer saying "My experience only"

[@fragalot]

I'd be curious to know what kind of PC the PCGamer article author was using. Was he on a laptop or desktop? Was it a clean install of Win11 by the author? Intel or AMD? Was it a prebuilt PC that came with Windows 11? Was there bloatware on it? What other software was installed on that PC while he was benchmarking? There are so many things that can effect performance. That "Sample size of one" was exactly what was going though my mind too Thio, before you said it.

[@KeinNiemand]

and most importantly was he using an unsoported CPU

[@StephenMcGregor1986]

Literally says in the article "CPU: Intel Core i7 10700K Motherboard: MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Carbon WiFi Graphics card: Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti Founders Edition Memory: 32GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4-3200| SSD: 1TB SK Hynix Gold P31 Cooler: Corsair H100i RGB Pro XT Chassis: DimasTech Mini V2 OS: Windows 11 Build 22000.194" Go and read the article before crapping on them due to a KZbinr's limited opinion

[@mattbosley3531]

Couldn't have been a prebuilt that came with Windows 11, since until just a couple of days ago there weren't any of those. There still aren't any gaming PCs prebuilt with Windows 11 that I've seen yet.

[@nicethaddy5955]

@@mattbosley3531 Prebuilt PC's have been loaded with the final build of W11 for weeks now, actually.

[@JayShady84]

Im more curious of why Joe chose to discredit PCgamers findings using a setup that wasnt even close to theirs....I mean in their findings they said that power consumption was some how dropping and Joe chose to use a Origin laptop. Im not saying PC gamers findings were right but at least verify their results on your own before saying that their findings are wrong. It would be nice to know the model of the origin laptop also but I think he is talking about EON17 , which I think its suppose to have 2 1080s in SLI and 64gbs of ram but either way its like comparing apples to oranges

[@Drakarys]

Useful info, but very different configurations. Keep in mind that you're running an older 8700k vs PC Gamer 10700k and while this may even seem to confirm that there's something wrong with their testing method since the newer and faster CPU on paper should perform much better, this is not always the case. Many times there have been issues with newer generations of hardware due to how they handle various instructions in different scenarios. Besides, AMD has already officially reported significant performance issues (around ~15% performance drop) in their CPUs which is quite noticeable especially on their newest high end CPUs. And Microsoft has also acknowledged this and confirmed that a patch is on the way for the issue. Take it with a grain of salt or anecdotal evidence since I'm just some random dude leaving KZbin comments, but I have experienced this myself. And my personal system is pretty beef with a 5900X on X570 with an EVGA 3080 FTW3 Ultra and 32 gigs @ 3600 MHz. My workstation is even better with a 5950X and a 3090 and at the office we have some Epycs as well, which we are currently testing and there is indeed a performance issue. Not as big as PC Gamer are reporting but there's definitely a performance issue, at least for AMD for sure.

[@raracool6531]

With your point though, does that not prove that is out of Microsoft’s hands and it’s up to CPU manufacturers to create a fix and push it out? It’s still not down to VBS.

[@RobFlexz]

This is called constructive Criticism, hard to find that on comments.

[@Kris_M]

@@raracool6531 I don't see anything in Drakarys' comment that proves that it is out of Microsoft's hands. What's going on here with the performance difference between VBS on and off, I'm not sure, but M$'s specific implementation can still be affecting performance on certain CPUs even with VBS support, with no fault on the CPUs side.

[@raracool6531]

@@Kris_M Well take the AMD L3 issue. That's on AMD's end rather than Microsoft's. I'm not the most well versed on what actually goes on in a CPU, so that's where my logic was coming from. Apologies.

[@christopherfortineux6937]

smh I have a 10700F and have seen Zero difference with W11. AMD is going to have to update microcode.

[@GamePro0012]

It's always reassuring to see things like this. Keep in mind, Microsoft always can--and probably will--make enhancements to VBS and HVCI to further reduce their impact on performance.

[@Vivi_Strike]

1 year later and VBS is still garbage... I can barely even run phone/virtual emulations with it on and if you set the mouse poll rate to anything over 250 the desktop struggles to smoothly highlight icons/folders when hovering between them.

[@frankom2862]

How old we need to be to understand that everytime that Microsoft come with a new version of their software, we should wait till it works.

[@SomethingaboutScreens]

*"till it works"* Destroyed in seconds!🤣🤣😂😂🤣

[@linear1224]

Yeah, but this video is about their software actually working as intended tho?

[@frankom2862]

@@linear1224 Thats what my grandma said to me, but these days I trust nobody, even my grandma is lit (by 2000´s definition).

[@DviousDingle]

@@SomethingaboutScreens he wasnt roasting MS tho, Any Software should be given a specific amount of time, Bruh.

[@SomethingaboutScreens]

@@DviousDingle i know 😂 Unintentional roast!

[@charginginprogresss]

I will not disable VBS. If I never enabled it, it counts as not disabling it right

[@Play-gn7xg]

That's the same logic of saying gravity killed the person, not you pushing them off

[@Unknown-xe6ni]

People: 4-5% fps drop Me: getting from 100 fps in Minecraft to now like 500 at 1080p high that in low end mx350😍

[@Unknown-xe6ni]

@Kael bought on may 5 2021

[@gragogflying-anvil3605]

@@Unknown-xe6ni Old components inside it…?

[@Unknown-xe6ni]

​@@gragogflying-anvil3605 no and also the pc is released less than a year ago. Anyway tracckpad issue made me revert it

[@TheWax70]

Good work on benchmarks, Thio! Appreciate the amount of time you put in this.

[@tux_the_astronaut]

Windows 11 has actually run stuff faster for me in both a VM and hardware

[@richardbogan7352]

In a world of wannabe techs (you know, guys that know how to update drivers and maybe reimage their system thinking it makes them a "techie"), I'm not surprised there is so much misinformation in circulation. The sheeple will adopt anything, especially if it's written in an article and published on the interwebs. Thanks man for being a stand up dude that real techs know they can trust. I've been in IT for almost 30 years and you constantly bring up topics that I find interesting.

[@DarthFurball]

5-8% is still a HUGE drop in performance. Throwing power at inefficient architecture just masks the issue.

[@Wumbee.]

Well he also played the game he said that the 5% drop did not actually do anything

[@Wumbee.]

Also it can turn a old laptop into something usable

[@sebimmbasti]

It's just like programming in Java: because the code is incredibly slow, you have to buy a bigger computer. Companies, worldwide.

[@JessicaFEREM]

Overall in my and my friends experience, windows 11 has generally felt more polished and smoother than windows 10 in terms of general feel and performance. There has been less times where the system hogs a significant amount of resources to do a background task

[@raypalmer5125]

PC Gamer has become like GameRant/TheGamer. They publish a lot of GamerTM stuff so naturally they jumped on the Window 11 hate train without proper benchmarking.

[@epicexposure]

I'm so glad you are around to clarify that for us :) Thanks!

[@nekogod]

I tested Horizon Zero Dawn specifically because of the article and I was getting around 10-15% more performance on Win11 vs Win10, the complete opposite to result in the article. On an AMD 5900x

[@BrianG61UK]

I see lots of explanations of how VBS works and what it is but nobody explains how it's better than the normal process isolation we have had since the 386. PLEASE could somebody explain for me?

[@royalkumar795]

PC GAMER : Gaming performance drop to 25% ThioJoe: Did you test on SDD ? PC GAMER : Surprise pikachu face

[@Lol-jp1ju]

Ssd didn't improve your performance it just helps to load your game in short time.

[@royalkumar795]

@@Lol-jp1ju But, SDD does make huge difference from HDD with faster boot ,better performance and fast loading on video game , maybe Bad HDD might caused this issue , like they are gonna tell us anyway

[@Lol-jp1ju]

@@royalkumar795 you can check benchmarks in yt to see that there is no performance difference

[@royalkumar795]

@@Lol-jp1ju like I said , like they are gonna tell us anyway

[@Lol-jp1ju]

@@royalkumar795 testing games is a channel in yt search in yt

[@ninuola.]

At this point, I think Microsoft should just create a gaming tier of their operating systems. As they have Home, Professional, they need a Gaming version that is tuned specifically for gaming.

[@xnyte]

xbox

[@ninuola.]

@@xnyte that's a console. And you can't install its OS on PC.

[@xnyte]

@@ninuola. Xbox is just running a version of windows 10 dedicated for gaming and only designed for gaming nothing more. Just like how PlayStation has a Linux base architecture. You are saying Microsoft makes any other types of OS? I’m just replying to what you said about how they should make a OS dedicated to gaming. They did. Didn’t say anything about where it should be :)

[@ApostKef]

Thiojoe, please make a video about the compatibility of zen+ with windows 11, because i think it is questionable. Zen+ does not support hardware accelerated hvci, so i am really qurious to see the possible performance hit if hvci is on

[@milnez]

I installed it eight hours ago despite seeing those reports, but I couldn’t believe those numbers and after it finished a pretty painless install it didn’t make a big difference to Cold War’s fps… looks good too

[@notoriousbig3k]

depends on configuration what CPU and GPU new old components u have this guys test allot on old configurations

[@wtfaatp]

Well this didn't age well.

[@Wft-bu5zc]

Nope lol, this guy’s full of it. I tried windows 11 for a few days. Absolutely horrible, went back to 10 and that’s the first time I’ve ever backpedaled on a new OS.

[@onatics]

haha

[@ravewonder]

Liked how you explained your results without tearing down other people cheers!

[@PaulAnthony2009]

Hey Joe, is there such a thing as 'Game Mode' anymore, where you can shut down all unnecessary process ? Cheers 👍👍

[@wolfandmoon1149]

I love the fact you went out of your way to debunk the articles about VBS. Your content has helped me with my computer, and I am grateful for your content 💙

[@Sector001ked]

My games run smoother on Windows 11 and the new Win 11 AMD graphics drivers! My 'only' complaint with Win 11 is the taskbar! The taskbar is a big step backwards, IMO.

[@christopherfortineux6937]

I have seen zero gaming performance decrease with Windows 11. The only people I know that saw any issue weren't on the latest Nvidia driver that came out before Windows 11 and it was only on certain GPUs. This is just what I saw on reddit so far. I did notice that this was specifically on Ryzen cpus and Nvidia gpus maybe there is some correlation there (again they for some reason didn't install the W11 driver yet and for some reason geforce didn't give them the update - mine did so idk what happened there for them). If anything % lows etc have improved with games etc.

[@nukmuk]

I think adding the standard deviation of the 3 tests could be useful to see if it's just run to run differences

[@darrelbryant8632]

As always you covered the pro's and con's. Most people and companies cry like "henny penny, the sky is falling". I used to be a Tape Drive Engineer and you wouldn't believe the companies that would ring their hands and run around weeping and moaning.

[@sobot_]

Thank you thio! Straight to the point like usual :D

[@TiagrajI]

Good to hear what you saw. Thanks. I disabled vbs based on that article. I undid the change.

[@KevinNguyen1]

Windows 11 is pretty much the same as Windows 10 in terms of performance for my laptop. There were some bsods at first but they went away.

[@arhzn]

lets go, i installed windows 11 like 50 years ago

[@UltraGamerYT79]

Thanks for the info Thio! I could play games properly now!

[@leomella46]

I've been playing with windows 11 for about 3 hours and I gotta say, I haven't noticed any changes in gaming performance. my cinebench score went from 13,546 to 13,532. (if that matters) asus rog strix z590e gaming just ai overclocked i7-10700k Corsair 360 aio Corsair vengeance 3200 ram kit 3060 ti ultra ikea poang chair Taco Bell chicken quesadilla mango sweet tea. ac 74º

[@pyp2205]

Some how just when I was watching this video. I saw an article about this, saying to disable VBS for faster performance. I was like "Ha you can't fool me! I don't even have Windows 11!".

[@ckingpro]

Ironically, you can turn on VBS in Windows 10 as well with Core Isolation in Windows Security (just like in Windows 11)

[@frostbornegaming6453]

i almost disabled it on my brand new windows 11 laptop, but i thought for a second and decided to look into it more, thanks for giving good info!

[@FlowElectron]

actually for me, alot of my games have been smoother and less stuttery on windows 11

[@killermoon635]

Windows 10 has VBS but turned off by default Windows 11 has VBS turned on if you do clean install but if you upgrade from windows 10, it will just copy windows 10 setting (which is off by default)

[@qaz1109]

My i5 6600 with all features including Memory integrity on has no performance impact so far.

[@Makarov13778]

I disabled memory integrity and got double the fps in WW3 and it stopped stuttering every 2 seconds, plus I was able to play it with higher settings.

[@rtoms]

It's not a problem to me because I can't upgrade to windows 11 on my potato pc Btw awesome video

[@bHappyk]

You can, unless of course it's a literal potato 😁. Look up for tutorials.

[@rtoms]

@@bHappyk I don't want my entire Home to blast

[@SmiIeyyXD]

Everytime you upgrade your system, you can lower the performance of your computer, even if it's minimal. You can see that performance can go down on weaker machines. Even I noticed a difference in my testing that I did.

[@roadhouseguy]

Thank you for all your research and data collection. This is great to see. I am also more concerned about what happens to frame timing. The 1% lows and 0.1% lows have a more user noticeable effect than the average frame to frame output per second. This is arguably where we see more important changes per cpu generation come to light in gaming performance. As you said more research is needed to collect more data.

[@anthonynorton666]

There's a pop-up to become a channel member on the bottom left of the page. I am one of those people who don't appreciate pop-ups that require a response for obvious reasons. If it's not you, then you know what to do. And yes, I am a subscriber.

[@ThioJoe]

I have zero control over that

[@ShyDigi]

I feel like the dude in the article lied about his specs to prove a “point” and actually had unsupported hardware - which would explain the huge drop in performance.

[@ThioJoe]

Eh i really doubt they would lie

[@AmyraCarter]

I agree with Joe, but it is possible that the hardware situation was less than ideal.

[@ShyDigi]

@@ThioJoe yeah I’m just saying it’s a possibility lol. Plus with news nowadays it’s all about misconceptions and random pointless internet discourse, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility per se. but they probably were telling the truth, you’re right.

[@safetyzone2962]

If it's unsupported VBS wouldn't even turn itself on. I know because I have an R5 1600.

[@CMak3r]

After I turn off this feature on my Ryzen 3900x, system lag is pretty much gone (for examples laggy WDM behavior when dragging windows to second monitor is no longer presented, and task manager responsiveness is also become snappy). I also disable virtualization in BIOS and turn off Hyper-V component (goodbye virtual machine). I can’t do additional benchmarking for now due to high workload

[@Almighty_Flat_Earth]

The fact is Windows 11 is worse than vista and 8. Terrible. Anger. Frustration. Agitation. Agony. Pain. Depression. Governments should ban windows 11 and Microsoft until they bow down. Let's RESIST. Let's BOYCOTT. windows 11 is a collateral damage. Their good-bad cycle continues. Let's skip w11 altogether, and wait for Windows 12.

[@iiIfeiithetechnerd]

Windows Vista and windows 8 were underrated operating systems and windows 11 isn’t even that bad, but you do you

[@gunnarsundman6828]

The most of Microsoft users aren't high education computer engineering computer experts or anything like that. Try to remember that.

[@ericmullen7582]

Just disabled vbs windows 10 8086k. 100% improvement in some games like battlefield 1. Cyberbug doesn’t drop below 60 now. Disable that garbage.

[@pvideveloper8783]

i have i7 3770. this VBS must be OFF because it is impact my gaming performance A LOT, frame drops on every games and benchmark.

[@xboxisgay23]

isnt this the guy that made tech troll videos now hes trying to be serious? boy who cries wolf

[@General_Li_Shin]

In my opinion with a patch or two out, it makes sense that Windows 11 would not have the exact same performance and it's very close for sure. I've been seeing a number videos and articles on it and it seems to be a 5-8% on average with VBS on and this should get corrected soon with more patches, service packs and so on.

[@atnfn]

I've never had malware (that I've noticed at least) on any of the PCs I've owned for the last 20 years so I'm not gonna give up any performance for that feature. Hardware unboxed tested a few games too, it did reduce performance by max around 10% in 2 games they tested, cyberpunk and something else, in another game it didn't really reduce performance at all (F1 2021).

[@FaustRSI]

Exactly. Wouldn't give up even 1% of performance for security.

[@Fortuna1]

Yes, works good for me in an i5 6th gen cpu, not frame drop, tested with emulators and games of differents ages Thanks for give this information very important

[@JesseGuthrieSF]

In D3, I noticed less stuttering with VBS off. I'm using a 9900k on an Asus Maximus XI Extreme with 4.9Ghz all core.

[@user-Doggo101]

D3? Diablo 3?

[@alexmercer57]

was waiting for thio's video after the official launch. Thanks for the research. Also, one question, did you shut down your discord? If so, why?

[@DivineSword1]

Great and very informative 👍 Keep up I found it to perform less doing very minimal tasks, be that graphics or processor dependant! Like explorer and app resizing animations, also scrolling is jittery! I am using a laptop, not the best specs in the world! But should fly through basic functions and graphical demands. Most of the stuttering I got happened while I was on battery life (tried on 2 different laptops, with same processors/graphics cards/ram).

[@ZonyaZeraora]

I think it's best to disable all fancy animations and blur effects on older hardware if you're going to be using it on battery power. Windows will keep all of it enabled at all times by default because it's technically capable of displaying it while running at full power, but that's not really ideal.

[@DivineSword1]

@@ZonyaZeraora thanks for the tip! But I have already reverted back to windows 10, because I just couldn't handle to laggy explorer of windows 11, plus the inflated taskbar doesn't help with the viewing experience on my 13.3 inch (16:9) screen, & I can't have it auto-hide.

[@ZonyaZeraora]

@@DivineSword1 If you're on integrated Intel graphics you might want to still reduce animations and effects to increase stability (latest drivers cause memory leaks with some window animations enabled)

[@DivineSword1]

@@ZonyaZeraora that's interesting. I have no knowledge of this memory leak thing! But I will try disabling animations & see what happens!

[@Bobbias]

Another thing to consider is that of you install windows 11 on an "unsupported" processor, you will see similarly harsh performance loss, because windows 11 can operate without the hardware acceleration for VBS, but it comes with a hefty loss in performance.

[@Povilaz]

As if I was able to upgrade to Windows 11!

[@gergelyvarju6679]

The original article claimed the FPS loss will happen on *some* prebuilt systems. The emphasis on the word *some*. Drivers, firmware, etc., can cause a lot of problems, so their point is: It makes sense to check if your PC or laptop will perform well under Windows 11 or not, as you can't take good performance for granted. People who upgrade first, complain later and probably never think about upgrading at all had problems with lots of different Windows versions before due to their own attitude. Warning them to check and think before upgrading is reasonable.

[@tzeffsmainchannel]

*This dude has been lying since 2008!!* 😠

[@RobFlexz]

I turned it off because anything helps with performance, I don’t need protection. I have a sense of brain of the 8nternet.

[@BlackSmokeDMax]

4-6% in itself seems like a huge drop, just not in relation to that 28% figure.

[@mujtabaiqbal58]

Thanks Joe , I also didn't notice any difference in games.

[@samsh0-q3a]

It's a compatibility issue with specific games and possibly some hardware, the point is VBS is spotty depending on the games you play and in a lot of cases you're better off turning it off. Other than that, Win 11 is even more bloated than w10 so of course that's gonna eat away at performance. This is why you wait to upgrade.

[@randomcomments5034]

You've really gotta do those .1% lows and 1% man. If there is a background process that is causing issues with frametimes or little spikes in the game. It won't impact the average fps all that much but can still be REALLY NOTICEABLE in game. If results don't have those lows, I wouldn't consider the data set valid enough to go off of indefinitely. Other than that though good video and your effort shows

[@RichardPhillips1066]

36 benchmarks my god my eyes glaze over just thinking about it :)

[@ThioJoe]

Well the computer did all the work i just had to set it up and press start ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@Kris_M]

Go watch Hardware Unboxed, Steve will run multiple benchmarks on 30 games, multiple resolutions and multiple CPUs or GPUs.

[@kiyoungwon1725]

Core Isolation is group of security feature that isolates Windows's core part with normal environment, usually through use of virtualization, which somewhat includes UEFI's secure boot. Microsoft refuses to explain what features are included in Core Isolation, or disclose detail of how they do that. (I suppose very few security specialists are aware of what is happening.) This grants clear advantage, as there are critical flaw within all IBM-PC compatible systems and thus OS based on IBM-PC compatibles also shares security flaw because of it. Recently Threat became critically apparent, especially after world realizing that very core nature of the CPU designs have fundermental flaw that cannot be cleared out. To prevent this, isolating critical, and nearly impossible to keep in check part of the system, both hardware and software requries protection through isolating core parts from normal environment by placing core into virtual environment. There are so many problems out there that we will never even know, but overall, problem became too serious to be ignored even for end users, and Microsoft decided to enforce security by forcing everyone to have Core Isolation feature. Their ultimate goal is placing every single core part of system in isolated environment, but for now machines lack capability of running such security feature without significant performance drops, thus Microsoft backed down a bit and delaying roll out a bit, which is reason why Memory Integrity is disabled by default. However, Post Gen 11 CPUs are capable of running even the Memory Integrity without notable performance cost, thus not running HVCI (memory integrity) is terrible idea if you are on newer devices. All the security that Microsoft is introducing, are not even able to meet the bare minimum. Microsoft rarely provides good security.... and they are introducing enforcement. This sounds like dangerous story hiding behind. If your system is capable of running all Core Isolation features without significant problem, just keep them on.

[@knection1986]

I think its more pressing that win 11 isn't displaying time and date in the taskbar of all monitors in a multi monitor setup

[@fdiskformat5049]

5% performance hit is also the gap between 3080TI and the 3090 it is a lot of € for 5% so do not say it is nothing ad all. BTW check out the video from Hardware Unbox about VBS. It is 6% across the board and in some cases even more.

[@annee.7707]

Sure, lets throw some leading edge hardware at it, and of course, it works just "fine". Not everybody has the privilege of getting the hardware requirements at this time. I wouldnt switch to 11 until they have fully optimized it or somebody has created a way to fix the performance hit.

[@raracool6531]

I’m not sure whether you caught the part where he says that the reason for the hardware requirements is because newer CPUs have features to better handle virtualisation. Be mad at Microsoft all you want but there are two outcomes: 1. Microsoft didn’t put in hardware restrictions and lower end CPUs would suffer because of it 2. Microsoft did put in hardware restriction and people complain. Of course not everyone has the privilege of getting new hardware, but you also have to consider that by the time Windows 10 stops getting serviced, 7th gen CPUs, the unsupported ones, will be 8 years old by that point. It’s annoying sometimes, but technology ages fast, and of course he had to benchmark it with a supported CPU otherwise the variables would be completely misleading.

[@ShyDigi]

I’m also not sure you caught the part where this was not a widespread issue for most people even with older hardware. The tech reviewer on the PC Gamer website had a newer CPU than Thio.

[@TheSUPERWIND2023]

Windows 11 is a great Operating System, It's the news people listen to that make them think Windows 11 is horrible. I've been using Windows 11 for about 3 weeks now, I rarely have issues and the only issues I tend to bump into are UI bugs, And that is rare. It's different for many people, I've been having a pleasing experience.

[@kqzo]

"don't disable vbs" meanwhile me who isnt installing windows 11 in the first place

[@LubomirGeorgiev]

VBS is a thing in Win10 as well. Just isn't enabled by default.

[@fynerboi]

I've only been using W11 for 2 days now but no fps loss so far. I did a clean W10 install and I set all my settings there (windows, drivers, programs, whatnot) then upgraded to W11 from there without doing a clean install. It works just as well, I even feel like the min fps has gotten a bit better, more stable. I'm using a 3900X, RTX3080, 32GB 3600MHz CL16 ram. So ye, no issues so far, my pc feels a bit snappier even and the new animations are really nice (at least I love them) ^^

[@lexiconmango6280]

yeah about 5% lower performance. so in rdr2 (1650, 10750h) i get 40-45fps average on ultra, with vbs disabled i get 43-48fps...

[@robertfeal-martinez3065]

As someone else pointed out the performance issues highlighted in the other video you quote was AMD and not Intel, and this was explained. I also watched two other videos which confirmed the issue with AMD Ryzen

[@nossy232323]

That didn't age well.

[@Vex22778]

Vbs and memory isolation screw up certain anti-cheats especially for games made pre-Windows11

[@IvanRiveraStagea]

I've been using Memory Integrity / Core Isolation since it rolled out in Windows 10. It's no different in Windows 11.

[@SharunKumar]

Tech guy power levels ranked... #1 - reads documentation completely

[@wtflolomg]

...complains about author sensationalizing the results of testing on one computer... then proceeds to counter the tests using a sample size of... one computer. It would have been nice to see at least AMD and latest generations included in the mix, but thanks for trying.

[@chubbysumo2230]

Other outlets have tested this, if the hardware properly supports VVS, there should be very little impact. If the processor does not properly support VBS, there is a much larger impact, but it is a game-by-game basis.

[@p.k.953]

Not always do we get lower performance in windows 11 with VBS on but compared to windows 10... The 11 is more heavier OS and giving out less performance.. So, for people with budget rig like R3, i3, etc. Losing even 3fps just because of a much heavier OS will be not worth for them to update it to 11. I mean windows 10 is not dead right!? So unless you want an interface that feels more like a smartphone (more easier to operate than windows 10)... Then you might go on to update to windows 11. But, I still use windows 10 unless I get access to DDR5 and the 5th gen or 7 series Ryzen or 11th gen or 12th gen Intel. The tech in the world is changing... In future the softwares might adapt to fully utilise the CPU along with windows 11.. but now I don't feel it's important to hop on to the windows 11❗

[@discount1493]

ok but imagine not using linux.

[@shabd_eg]

Thanks for the information I was planning to update to Windows 11 and I am a gamer so it is so helpful

[@ZeFoxii]

I remember the days when he would tell us how to download more ram XD

[@george87235]

Does that work btw?

[@hasanj.4356]

@@george87235 it totally does

[@instantkarma_194]

To my knowledge, when windows 10 launched for the first time, people said that too it was all fake too

Windows 10 does run games worse if you have low spec pc too. Though it's not huge difference.

[@instantkarma_194]

@ games run bad on windows 10 with low specs not because windows 10 is a bad operating system but because windows 10 isn't compatible with that low specs and Microsoft themselves say, if you wanna run old hardware or very low specs then just use an old operating system and every tech manufacturer out there say that every computer hardware should have about 4-5 years of software support and anyways Microsoft is giving way more than that, for example windows 10 was launched back in 2015 and Microsoft has already announced the win10's expiry on 2025, that's about 10 years of software support anyways I don't think anyone wants more software support than that because then you will be missing on a lot of new features and more powerful hardwares anyways, because it's just not possible for a new operating system to be backwards compatible with everything.

[@theviking2105]

I didn't have these issues my games feel like there running smoother since i got windows 11

[@osfbro]

yeah mine too

[@safetyzone2962]

Same, even on an unsupported R5 1600.

[@osfbro]

@@safetyzone2962 oh :O