Noam Chomsky on the Mondragon cooperatives and Workers' Councils

[@murraymicha]

Direct and indirect worker participation: A response to Naom Chomsky Naom Chomsky questions the degree and quality of worker-member participation in the Mondragon management function. With due respect to the inspirational Naom Chomsky, I’d like to say, that, from my experience of 20 years working as a trainer and facilitator in Workplace Partnership, in Ireland, UK and Europe, Chomsky underestimates the transformative potential of Mondragon worker-members experiencing participative decision-making at the Strategic level, albeit via “indirect: democracy.“ Particularly so when it occurs in combination with the “direct democracy” of Self-Managed Teamworking, and even of much less autonomous forms of Teamworking, at the Operational level. And the literature reports teamworking is practiced in most of the co-ops, beginning decades ago, in the heyday of the introduction of Total Quality management practices. Finally, I would surmise, from the literature and my own conversations at Mondragon, there is a generous provision of education, training, and advisory support provided to worker-members to ensure they can function at all organizational levels. The alternative “Mushroom paradigm” of worker participation in management, believe me, I have seen, and can smell a mile away: “feed them plenty of manure and keep them in the dark.” From what I’ve seen, heard and read I don’t believe that is the Mondragon way. And, yes, on an academic level I’m familiar with Michels, and accept a basic truth in his theory of “Oligarchy,” which argues that even the most democratically elected leaderships of organizations have an innate tendency to becoming self-perpetuating elites. (R.Michels, “Political Parties.”) I saw it in action every day of my time as, first, a voluntary, then full time union official - and as a member of other social and political organisations. Still, I don’t accept Michels’ suggestion of an inexorable, “Iron Law,” of oligarchy: just the need for “eternal vigilance.” And I don’t know of an organization that has as many checks and balances in place to contain the tendency towards managerial oligarchy as Mondragon. But do I believe that it couldn’t happen in Mondragon? No. As the competition in the global market intensifies, and Mondragon commits to competing higher up the capital-intensive, high tech, value chain, “time to market” imperative puts even more of a squeeze on participative problem-solving and decision-making processes. Absolutely, the defence of Mondragon’s commitment to the principles of “Democratic Organisation “ and “Participative Management” will be severely tested. And I’d be very surprised if that organizational tension wasn’t already manifesting itself. But that’s the challenge Mondragon set itself a long time ago: to grow and adapt and attempt to hold on to its core principles in the process. Finally, to Naom may I say in the second language of Arrasate-Mondragon: “Que Dios bendiga tu trabajo !” And in my own, Irish, language: “Go mairfidh thu an Cead !” (may you live to be 100 !)

[@murraymicha]

+Strange and Perverse Conspiracy By the Fates Thank you for your response. I share your dubiousness. But its almost tautological, isn't it? It's easier to respond to external factors in the national than the wider international market. And what of all the TTIPs, TPPs and TSIAs, etc. ?

[@dionbridger5944]

I find Chomsky's criticism of Mondragon unpersuasive. He has stated that Mondragon cannot be a satisfactory model for worker's coops because it functions inside of the for-profit Capitalist system; which is contradicted by Chomsky stating elsewhere that he believes in the free market "under the conditions described by Adam Smith".

[@davianthule2035]

To chompies defence, Adam smiths conception of a free market explicitly would be closer to workers coops then not, Smith viewed rich holders of capital as a massive threat to the free market and to liberty

[@dionbridger5944]

@@davianthule2035 I don't see how this works as a defense for Chomsky. It's just outright inconsistent to criticize Mondragon for existing inside a for-profit framework when the cooperative-like Smithian economy you mention ( and which Chomsky would presumably have said he supports at one point ) is exactly the same thing. Chomsky is a POS Maoist, although he never says it ouright. Maoists have been attacking Coops as an obstacle to true class conflict for as long as they've existed.

[@goose4919]

@@dionbridger5944 No. He's an orthodox anarcho syndicalist. Ansyns don't like market economics and I find is criticism lacking as well.

[@dionbridger5944]

@@goose4919 He calls himself that, but has miss-stepped multiple times with respect to both the CCP and Khmer Rouge & everything he says can be predicted easily from a 3rd worldist position. I don't think I've ever heard him attempt to make any serious criticism of China. Correct me if I'm wrong!!!!

[@goose4919]

@@dionbridger5944 He is a member of the IWW and as far as I can tell, they're not Maoist. He also wrote that the Khmer Rouge was horrible right after Vietnam invaded it.

[@Ashish-ss5nt]

Should these be applied to universities as well anyone can reply

[@dailyretch9273]

The Horizontal model co-op if far better.

[@stackootb9822]

Don’t work.

[@jc6226]

@@stackootb9822 orly, except for all the ones that do.

[@marksmit8112]

Do you have a reference to that?

[@Mourningdove702]

Would cooperatives be considered Democratic Socialism? Democratic Capitalism? Progressive Capitalism?

[@darcking99]

GPT chat: Cooperatives can be compatible with various economic systems, depending on how they are organized and operate. However, they tend to be more closely associated with democratic socialism or social democracy, which prioritize democratic ownership and control of the means of production and may seek to promote greater economic equality. In a democratic socialist or social democratic system, cooperatives may be seen as a way to counterbalance the power of private corporations and promote worker empowerment. In a capitalist system, cooperatives can also exist and may be considered a form of progressive or social capitalism, which seeks to balance the benefits of market competition with social and environmental goals. Ultimately, the specific label that applies to a cooperative depends on the broader economic and political context in which it operates.

[@truthseekers5609]

Distributism

[@proletarian13]

A form of Market Socialism.

[@felicetanka]

Mondragon

[@richcampus]

0:36; "worker owned but manager controlled"

[@soniasutcliffe7270]

1863 as the North of England Co-operative Society 60,000 £5.4 billion ($8.64 billion)(2001) 445110 Supermarkets and Other Grocery (Except Convenience) Stores; 445120 Convenience Stores; 447110 Gasoline Stations with Convenience Stores; 522110 Commercial Banking; 522120 Savings Institutions; 524128 Other Direct Insurance (Except Life, Health, and Medical) Carriers; 812210 Funeral Homes and Funeral Services

[@codybonus230]

So Everyone Makes $250,000 a year Asking for Freemarket America. Whats the tax rate? Thanks I could make that on my own as a poor chap by reading a few books here in America. Whats the benifits?

[@miguelmatienzo5007]

Basque cauntry!!!

[@Bertol-h1m]

Trabajo en una cope de mo dragon y me averguenza decirlo. Si supierais como funciona flipariais. Eso si, el coperativismo es el mejor sistema, pero mondragon lo pudre todo.

[@andrewx7806]

What Chomsky fails to mention or doesn’t know is that the Mondragón Collective was created through laws passed by National Syndicalism under none other than Francisco Franco. Isn’t that ironic.

[@benmckinnon9519]

yeezy brought me here

[@codyne4185]

How

[@comebackkid44723]

codyne Yeah I’m curious to know too lol.

[@jc6226]

who the f is yeezy and why does it matter?

[@AAA-ej9ws]

How

[@lesleykramer7207]

Spoke a lot, but didn't say much

[@Willfitzcomedy]

How do you figure? I feel he spoke a little and said a lot. Having criticism for companies that rely on profit is a step towards figuring out systems that don't (on some level) rely on a form of exploitation.

[@jc6226]

if you learn to listen, he said quite a bunch of stuff