Not BotR Unless Something Goes Wrong! Suppressor Point Of Impact Shift Test on CZ 600 Trail

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Bloke has popped his suppressor cherry, and now he needs to determine what the effect is of hanging that great big weight off the end of his barrel... So he took his new B+T Rotex-X 5.56 Compact suppressor, and a B+T blast deflector to the range and tried them out on his CZ 600 Trail .223. What, if any, difference does it make? Why did this super expensive Fiocchi match ammo do so poorly?
0:00 Introduction and overview of the CZ 600 Trail
1:23 Detailed look at the blast deflector and B+T Rotex X suppressor
3:07 The effect of attachments on barrel point of impact
8:26 Shooting with the blast deflector: Round 2
10:00 Shooting with suppressor: Experience and results
13:14 Switch to RUAG 69 grain ammo: Impact and performance
16:13 Wrap up and call for support
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[@lonewolftek]

Clearly we need another of these tests, with that suppressed Sterling that's just hanging out in the background

[@CAPNMAC82]

One of the peculiar things I have noted in the last 40-plus years of shooting is that cost of factory ammo is not equal to the quality/performance of that ammo. Further, that specific firearms will have "likes" and "dislikes" for ammo with little regard for what the shooter wants to pay. Also, Factory "A" which made ammo three or for decades ago may not be making that ammo to that same standard today (presuming they have not been bought by Company "B" or "C" in the interim). And, there is little predicting which way a given company or product will go, either. S&B used to be hugely reliable FMJ ammo here in the States, but, it's dropped to 3rd or 4th tier for quality, while stuck at 1st or 2nd in price. I keep a cheat sheet summary on my phone at this point.

[@aljole683]

Our usual Fiocchi ammo is on the cheap end. It makes good strong ammo to use for general blasting, or shooting steel, because it will run a dirty gun and remain reliable; but it’s not the one we choose for accuracy.

[@PolenarTactical]

When i did the 1 MADL challenge i also tried my CZ600 and im getting consistent results as you, just with different ammo. 60% of rounds form a nice grouping and then you have a couple of crazy fliers. Now this can be just random and we are trying to find a pattern in it... but on the other hand it could actually be some problem with the system itself, i just can figure out what exactly

[@arthurc7191]

I have the same issues with my 6CM CZ600 Range. I think it may be an issue with the way the barrels are manufactured because the chamber is clearly not perfectly round. My fired cases have a distinct glock-like bulge on one side. The lug lockup is also incredibly sloppy (stripped bolt) so I suspect the cartridges aren't sitting in the chamber the same way every time, causing those weird crazy ivans. I thought it was the Sierra/Federal ammo which had a .07 gram difference between high and low powder charges, but it still occasionally has those fliers with carefully measured reloads.

[@Chlorate299]

That little puff of smoke out of the end of the can really shows how it pretty much drops the muzzle blast down to practically zero, it must be dissipating a lot of energy in the process. Interesting mounting system that is too.

[@nothim7321]

Same system that was issued to some units in Afghanistan for their bog standard M4s

[@earlyriser8998]

We have seen the same variation between other ammo too

[@michaelwhite9199]

Very good video. I’m very tempted to start saving for my own example of that rifle. Bolt actions are a lot less scary for the crazies in my area that call the police the moment they see a firearm.

[@spraynpray]

The best way to deal with silencer POI shift is to never take it off.

[@fcp5039]

The people responsible for procuring the ammo have been sacked...

[@MrKronikDeception]

We apologise again for the fault in the ammunition. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked.

[@paddy2019]

The directors of the firm hired to continue the ammunition procurement after the other people have been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been sacked. The procurement has been completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute.

[@BashingBambi]

I’ve found that poi shift is minimal, well within minute of deer requirements and also an increase in mv not a drop but a rise of up to fifty feet per second! The only dramatic shift to poi i noticed was down to poor threading of the muzzle

[@darthhodges]

Part of the problems the US had with the early M16 in Vietnam were a change in the ammo between testing and fielding. Specifically they used a different, cheaper, kind of gun powder that fouled up the gun much more quickly. I wonder what the difference in powder choice between the Fiocchi and the RUAG shot here is. As I understand it different formulations or even differences in physical grain size and shape can affect burn rate which changes how high a speed the bullets reach (which also affects where they land), and of course inconsistencies in those things make for inconsistent ammo.

[@BradleyLydon]

great video, I love the sound of the can, more noise from target impact or backstop impact than the report of the rifle, very cool and due to how you hear the sound it almost sounds like you have the audio playing backwords, I know it is not but still an odd thought.

[@Skenderbeuismyhero]

I've always appreciated fiocchi importing some odd rounds into the US like brass cased 7.62x39 and I've never had any function issues with it but I've never had good accuracy results from any fiocchi loadings. I always thought that perhaps they sent the bad stuff to us in the US.

[@niklasaskham4208]

Zeroed my out of the box cz600 trail last weekend. Was getting similar groups at 47 meters with 55 grain bulk box soft point.223. But that was a small sample of one.

[@psychobilly4162]

I have never had the best luck with Fiocchi ammunition. Now, let's discuss that thing in the background that looks suspiciously like a Sterling in the next lane... .

[@BlokeontheRange]

😇😁

[@Mongo63a]

I bought a case of fiocchi 5.56mm once. It was not the match but the 55gr since I was shooting in 1-12 guns. The stuff would not group to save its life. Looking at the brass afterwards, the flash primer holes were punch with little precision and some times not all the way through giving smaller flash holes. Not only that but there was also may cases with the punched material still attached to one side of the hole partially obscuring the flash hole. Burned the ammo up in my machine guns and will never buy from them again.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Their 9mm and .32 ACP is OK, but most of the rest of their production is utter tonk. The old classic obsolete cartridges are a smorgasbord of squibs and double charges, only worth buying to get the cases and projectiles.

[@JR9979]

But cannnn it do one MOA alll dayyyy sonny???. Im joking. Nice setup Bloke!.

[@1982rrose]

You don't know till you test drive it.

[@stickfighter1038]

Find that the powder used even with the exact same bullet/primer makes a big difference in my match/competition rifles. With my shorty 10.5 inch AR, I don't see a shift with the suppressor so barrel length and weight has a big impact.

[@jmm6990]

my AR. in 6.5 creed shifts 1.8 mils with the suppression on

[@Frank-bc8gg]

the first group looks like a smiley face with eyebrows

[@marcusott2973]

Much awaited, much appreciated excellent insights as always from you.

[@niklasaskham4208]

Very much enjoyed this episode

[@mrgrozeh3452]

Great Video. I use the B&T Blast Deflector on my Savage MSR15 and I like it a lot. Shoots hole in hole with Hornady Frontier 55 gr. FMJ.

[@zoiders]

I have noticed that the CZ Trail seems to be around the same size and format as a Mini-14 and seems to exibit the same problems with general noodleyness.

[@FrankMuchnok]

We must always remember Murphy's Law.

[@keithduthie]

On the one hand, you wasted your patrons' money on the expensive ammo, but on the other hand you may have saved somebody money by showing them just how crap that expensive ammo is. And at least now you know to buy more of the _actual_ good stuff.

[@BlokeontheRange]

It's worth the money to find out that ammo was terrible and to expose Fiocchi for it. It's a public service 😇😁

[@dbmail545]

I have the 600 Trail in 7.62x39. It comes with a medium weight barrel instead of the pencil weight barrel that would seem more in line with what the gun was designed for. I assume this barrel was chosen because it deflects less with the weight of a suppressor on the muzzle.

[@exploatores]

It would be intresting to see. what diffrence it is between supersonic and sub.

[@georgewashington92]

Cant wait for my mp5 b&t can and especially my station six 9 to arrive. Been waiting for 10 months, considerimg that Luxembourg and Switzerland are forever apart...mehhh

[@mikeks8181]

I Own a Browning A- Bolt Eclipse in 300 Winmag! It has what I believe they call an adjustable harmanic balancer ? I never played with it because, the first three rounds i fired at 100 yards were a Keyhole! Still use the same ammo from the same company! At two hundred yards i am shooting three inside a the diameter of a US Quarter! Anyone wanting to do the bare bones checking if weight in a barrel? Just tape some weight At the front of yours and See how the shots spread and shift! I did It with a cheap 22 rimfire! Thank You for the video! I'm not tech savvy but, trying to figure a way to enter the Minute of Angle All Day??

[@cedhome7945]

A friend of mine waited for 3 months for a tikka with a custom spiral external twist barrel and after spending a fortune on it took it to bisley and invited me to give it a try ..... groups weren't that impressive and it was then that I noticed he skimped on the ammo... steel case stuff ! Why in the name of all that's holy do people do this ? Mind you just because you paid for the most expensive stuff as shown don't mean it works in your gun either. Keep trying different brands until one works best 🇬🇧

[@BlokeontheRange]

Oh, I lived in NL... People would spend €€€€€ on a rifle then shoot the cheapest ammo, or make handloads with the cheapest components possible...

[@petrimakela5978]

​@@BlokeontheRangeThat's insane, especially when Sako range is perfect for Tikkas and it's reasonably priced (for boltguns, would never run an IPSC Match with it)

[@rf9078]

Just a quick sanity check. There is no cursh washer on that right? Those can hugely impact accuracy with cans due to not being able to handle the weight. Best of luck bud!

[@BlokeontheRange]

There's a special one that comes with it (the muzzle device is designed for use with NATO-attachment cans) that didn't really crush much, so I had to put a shim washer in there too. But the accuracy with the can is the same as without so there's no issue, as you'll see with the RUAG ammo at the end.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Impact shift, yes I have to watch.

[@alexs5744]

Like to get my hands on some of that RUAG ammo but most of the 5.56/.223 I find is American stuff.

[@custardthepipecat6584]

CZ Swiss mud test with cheese 😸

[@Zefferum]

I may be completely off base here, but is there a chance the bag is contacting the barrel at times here?

[@andrewwhite6201]

that works out at £1.76p a round not cheep shooting great vids

[@robertl6196]

The blast deflector looks useful. A silenced Sterling in the background?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Yup!

[@jameshealy4594]

Terrible performance from that fiocchi, especially considering it's using the same projectiles. $3.30 Aussie per round! Glad to see my patreon dollars being used so well. 😂

[@BlokeontheRange]

At least it's being used to shame Fiocchi, not that they probably care, lol...

[@toemag]

I have stopped using Fiocchi ammo altogether, it would seem to me that they are using a to aggressive powder, the last I bought was in 357mag and it was atrocious stuff, groups were horrible and the cases wouldn’t eject from my revolver without using more force than I liked.. Great video, loving the personalised serial number 😃. I’m still not liking the groupings at 50m on such an expensive rifle, I get better at 100m through my CR223.. Just a quirk, I have found that my CR loves the Hornady 52gr, plants them hole in hole at 100m, I know a big ask, have you tried them yet at 50m? As always a brilliant video, saves me time as I’d do the same tests as you do..

[@BlokeontheRange]

Haven't got access to the Hornady 52's, but I expect that rifle will absolutely hate them.

[@toemag]

@@BlokeontheRange that’s a shame, I got the box with the rifle, bought second hand, and took it to the range to just get rid of it in the fun way, was absolutely gobsmacked 😶 at the results, egun has them, about €44 for 50.. Can you buy from German dealers? I’m now living in Bremen, I left Bavaria about a decade ago..

[@BlokeontheRange]

In principle I can, but I have to get import paperwork so it's not worth the hassle...

[@3eightiesopinion524]

My 44 mag fiochi brass was trash. Couldnt reload it. Wouldnt resize properly (no it wasnt my fault). The brass was out of spec.

[@stewbacca117]

Stella Artois and Fiocchi SMK... "Reassuringly expensive"? 🤔🥴

[@ryanniksch4174]

I have been surprised several times at my rifle liking cheap shit more than expensive stuff

[@joearledge1]

I was going to ask what you think about Swiss-P projectiles and ammo? I've seen a smattering of it in the US, and wasn't sure if it was worth trying or not.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Never had bad luck with that sort of thing

[@joearledge1]

@@BlokeontheRange thanks Bloke. We're getting a lot more import stuff these days in the US, and it can be tough to tell if something is good, excellent, or trash when the brand is "new to us", at least until a bunch of people try it. Any advice that you have on brands to avoid or ones that are highly recommended would be very helpful in navigating the new market place. Thanks again Sir

[@danhoward1163]

Why didn't you warm the barrel with cheaper ammo?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Cos sometimes the difference in powder makes a difference for the first shot or two. It's a factor we can remove.

[@randyhavard6084]

It does look like your barrel was touching the support bag in at least a few shots

[@BlokeontheRange]

It shouldn't have been, the forend keeps the bag out of the way.

[@titanscerw]

Beware - forend on Trail does NOT keep barrel freefloat! Support under front end of polymer half-chassis yield the best results. Tried that both with bag and/or c-clamp and tripod combo. +][+

[@SaintSkanderbegus]

Howdy

[@tsuchinokoz5036]

!

[@mikethomas5510]

Possibly your wallet was crying & shaking disturbing your aim

[@mathewlee7015]

Send the Fiocchi to Ukraine

[@wolfy07ro]

Such nice ammo wasted in such a bad rifle...

[@BlokeontheRange]

Terrible ammo. Rifle is fine if you don't want it to do things it would never be able to do.

[@wolfy07ro]

@@BlokeontheRange for something that would cost me today 1195.37 Euros to buy, it is a garbage rifle. With minimum design effort and small increase in price, this would have been a beautiful and also useful rifle. The way it is, it's just a beautiful cheaply designed and fabricated toy.