Not "Made in America" Surefire Stiletto Pro? Great light w/ minor suggestions. Is this the end-all?

[@LumaLabs]

SureFire ditched the Made in USA label 2-3 years ago, when Cree shut down their last LED emitter production line in Research Triangle. This was a big deal for SureFire because they very much pride themselves on making stuff in Fountain Valley. Two points about this: 1- The FTC rules state that labeling a produce Made in USA requires basically 100% of the product materials and content come from the United States. This is dramatically higher than any other country's origin labeling standards. A watch is labeled Swiss Made if it was designed, assembled, and 60% of the materials come from Switzerland. Made in Canada is 51% (though the Product of Canada requires 98% of product content). UK is similar to Canada. As someone who makes stuff in the USA (to the Made in USA label requirements), I think the standards are too high at this point. The country is better off if 90% of a product is made here and can get the branding benefits. In any other country, SureFire's product would still qualify for the nation's origin label. I don't think anyone is benefiting from the current standard. 2- Everything SureFire makes still qualifies under the Berry Amendment (DOD) and Buy American (general federal government) purchasing requirements. That means that a product can contain foreign made stuff if (and only if) the company can definitely prove that there is not a US based supplier with the performance/capacity to meet their needs. In the end, I don't think the argument that SF lost the Made in USA label means one can just throw up their hands and say "Well, since it lost this label, I guess we can all buy OLights guilt free!" O Light, like most Chinese companies, dumps product in the USA after having their material, machines, factory space, and employees subsidized, and working in a country with zero enforcement of IP laws. This is not just conjecture - it is the stated strategy of the CCP to gain a strategic advantage over the USA by weaponizing trade and burying the US's domestic manufacturing capability by undercutting USA vendors (Read: Unrestricted Warfare, 1999, PLA Press, and Made in China 2025, the public strategy outline published by the CCP). Just realize, when you buy an O Light anything - you are buying a product who's material was made by the CCP and sold to O Lights factory for 10% the global commodity price, designed in CAD packages they ripped off because nobody is enforcing those laws, then processed on CNC machines built using ripped off IP for a fraction of the prices of the originals, in a building sold to O Light on a 0% loan, and shipped to the US for next to nothing using loopholes maintained in international bodies by incessant CCP bureaucracy manipulation. All of it with the intend of crippling the US manufacturing base. Give me all those advantages and I'll kick OLight's ass! But until such time as we either give the sort of industrial support to manufacturing China does, or we tariff the crap out of the Chinese to stop the economic war they are waging against us, trying to judge OLight agains SureFire needs to take this reality into account.

[@JohnDoeGoGoGo]

Dude, did you really expect life and business to be fair?! How old are you? For every tl;dr cryfest you do, I'm gonna buy 3 chinese lights.

[@randysmith9636]

Brother you just layed out Harbor Frights entire business model to flood the US market. At the SEMA show (and others) they rolled out their new Ratchets. Even talked about how it took so long to develop, it is pretty much a mirror image of the Snap On ratchet. Their "Wave" multi tool copy is another. I honestly do not think that HF has ever had a original idea to date.

[@Monoryable]

to be honest, 0% loans, as well as subsidies for domestic companies that export from China makes for reasonable policies from their point of view; there's a whole another discussion for other trade practices, but being mindfully protectionist is only fair

[@daifeichu]

I don't know the details of "Made in America" but I was just on the Prometheus Lights website. With their in house made lights, they state "Where it's made" and they show an American flag. They also state that the reflectors are made in Finland. Regarding manufacturing in China, they definitely don't have to follow the same rules as other countries. It's common for companies there to have in house reverse engineering dept's. A good friend has seen it first hand.

[@RxLush]

It's funny because you make it sound like it is China against the USA, when the reality is that US Companies' greed is to blame. Almost all US brands make their stuff in China for cheap.. but, of course, they keep charging "made in the USA" prices. Ask Apple, you don't get much bigger than that. All their overpriced trash is made in China.

[@carknelson5895]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ve been running a Surefire stiletto for the fact that I thought it was USA made mine is 3-4 years old

[@carnold.knowledge]

I own several Malkoff lights, Made in USA. Not the fanciest features, but build quality and reliability cannot be beat. Love to see your thoughts on some Malkoff units.

[@lastbesttool]

I'd love to take a Malkoff light for a spin. They look great. However at the bottom the description is this line: "Made in the USA. Some parts not domestically sourced." That's the same boat that Surefire is in.

[@alexdrockhound9497]

I love malkoff! The owner is also a fun guy to chat with. Real nice guy.

[@michaellindsay8934]

Great information Doc

[@daifeichu]

I've never owned a Surefire but from what I've read about their lumen numbers they always seem to lowball the output. Not like other companies that give the output numbers from the first few seconds on high before it ramps down. Sort of a Gucci light but have you looked at Prometheus Lights? The price range is between $45 to $775. Made in house in America with most of the material MiA. I think the reflector is made in Finland. Not sure about the LED. They also design and build FourSevens flashlights which are no slouch. MiC.

[@focusonthefocus]

There is a company called Panther Vision that has a ton of flat styles. I'm surprised they haven't made it to the EDC community yet. Have you heard of them?

[@Toyotas_n__Tools]

I was just looking at these last night, I want one with a rotating head

[@HorseRadish403]

Some Chinese lights are the brightest lights. Like the Imalent Sr32 with 200,000 lumens. But most are junk throw aways.

[@The-Homecook-0000]

Powertec is the light

[@derptothemaxclearly]

With an MSRP of $259.00... no thanks. Carried 2 surefire lights during OIF 09-10. One rifle mounted with tape switch, and the other was from the defender line. Unless surefire dropped their prices by 50-60% I'll never buy one as a civilian. There are vastly better options that perform better and cost less.

[@DavidLeon140m3]

at least it aint snowing rn in MT

[@billn911]

if you're going to make it flat, why not just add a little picatinny so you can alternate between carry and mount

[@alexdrockhound9497]

ive had way too many surefire lights die on me. Surefire used to be an industry leader, but now they are an industry follower.

[@randysmith9636]

@@alexdrockhound9497 Unfortunately because of the cost of manufacturing and allowing the Chinese to have free reign in the US, many US company's have closed. Surefire can no longer get American made parts, they literally have no other options.

[@harrymaben2623]

I have used Surefire for 30 years, had one tail cap fail, they replaced it no problem. Parts wear out, I used one enough that a wore through the rubber switch cover. You call them, they replace it. I still have incandescent lights still working. Who are they following? They invented the tactical light and weapon light.

[@alexdrockhound9497]

@@harrymaben2623ive had latch hinges break on brand new lights, mounting screws snap the flashlight body, and lights just flat out stop working with no apparent cause. Getting customer service has been a lot of trouble, 90 minutes on hold to get a replacement is not a great experience.

[@timl824]

Nice reel!

[@haoau16333]

...❤👍

[@Hazan1fan]

Love that light. I carried it bezel down until I accidentally turned it on in my pocket and it burned a hole in my pants