NOTICE THESE ACTIONS at the Mid Stakes of Live No Limit Hold'em

Caller gets check raised in a 3 bet pot holding top pair top kicker and some important lessons come out of the hand for the mid stakes of live No Limit Hold'em.
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[@CrushlivePoker]

What do we think about her fold on the turn with this amount of money behind? Is QJ a large part of a check raising range here on KT3r?

[@88mphDrBrown]

I actually think it's a decent fold, the only semi bluffs are qj and Broadway gutshots which her ace is blocking. She's even blocking suited Broadway gut shots that picked up the flush on the turn. It's just so dry it seems like QJ would be the vast majority of his check raise range that isn't straight value.

[@ZToxLives]

Initially I thought it's probably a good fold but after her saying he claimed middle set, and the comment about him having 5 sets in an hour, I'm more inclined to believe he was lying too.

[@88mphDrBrown]

@@ZToxLives what he had doesn't change whether it was a good fold. The only hands she beats are absolute spazz bluffs, gut shots, and kq kj. I don't think many people are going to x/r kq kj and having the Ad isn't good. Maybe he was just bluffing off his image, but the straight up hand analysis doesn't look good for her.

[@joshuathomas1683]

I'm calling the Turn and then deciding what to do on the river.

[@ZToxLives]

@@88mphDrBrown agreed from a theoretical standpoint the specific hand doesn't matter, but what I'm saying is there appear to be mitigating factors that change things. To me it would make more sense that he has a hand like QJ if he's not bluffing. So if we assume he's "lying" about his hand, I would think he'd more likely say he had QJ (assuming he's a thinking player). Her comment about him continuously saying he has a set against the odds of having sets so frequently, plus the fact that in reality if he did have a set in this hand, he played it somewhat odd (I'm not sure why you would make the same bet on the turn with a set with the board becoming more dicey with the straight plus the backdoor diamonds showing up). I just think all these factors that she would have witnessed at the table over the previous hour and the villain's repeated claims of a set would make me more inclined to call whereas in a vacuum I might fold.

[@charlesdavis405]

To beat these games, you have to do two things well, value bet and make exploitable folds. If the guy was a "2/5 pro", your range looks to him like AA or AK in a 3 bet pot preflop that bet/calls a check/raise on the flop. If/when the villian continues on the turn, after check/raising flop, they usually has AA and AK beat due to the fact that most are not capable of folding these hands postflop, at these stakes. This puts the villian's range weighted to sets, two pair, or QJ that semi bluffed on the flop and got there on the turn. I think it was a good fold and a correct fold, at these stakes. You're hardly ever going to get exploited by over folding, at these stakes.

[@joehenry9546]

100% agree with the above. Most players are weak right, and passive. They won’t bet big unless they have top pair beat. I think folding the turn was the correct play.

[@RaulGroom]

I don't even think this is that exploitable. AK with the Ace of diamonds is pretty close to the bottom in position, being unable to improve vs the value range, having horrible removal and beating only a stone bluff with squadoosh

[@jcw8955]

it’s villain

[@sluggy6074]

"I had a set" I'm stealing this one

[@DexterPlastic419]

I'm so glad there's no rake in portland

[@ChiariLife420]

Thanks for the hand analysis Bart! Your simply the absolute best at what you do. I pray you and the family are well! See ya on the next one!

[@natashadelrey6074]

in my experience at low stakes as a female, most people rarely bluff against me because they think i only have QQ+ when i raise. i need to definitely start overfolding to check raises as the 3-bettor. good fold on the turn

[@natashadelrey6074]

also your perceived range (especially as a female) is so strong betting half pot into 3 people, villain would unlikely be so ambitious to bluff you off AA or AK if we are assuming that he thinks you are a weaker player

[@natashadelrey6074]

2 people*

[@stonecoldscubasteveo4827]

When playing against women it has been my experience that there are usually 2 different cases, and it's usually pretty easy to differentiate them. The first is the woman who at least broadly knows what she's doing, in which case you treat them as any other player and try to figure out their individual tendencies. If I HAD to generalize competent women I'd say they tend to bluff slightly MORE frequently, because of the fear factor that many men have when playing against them. The other type is "hey I invited my girlfriend to come play poker" and they DO tend to be weak/tight and any aggression on their part should be respected. This is pretty similar to total newbie male players except you have a smaller likelihood of them being an "I call because I don't know whats happening and that's how you do poker right?" types and especially fewer "I raise because bluffing you means i have a bigger peen" types.

[@craigerc713]

I ran hot with sets like that one time. Seems like I kept battling with the same guy. He either had kq flopping top pair or AK flopping top pair. I kept flopping sets against him. I bought in for 200 in a 2-2 game and ran it up to 1500

[@qsdailydose8970]

I folded kings today to a 5-bet he had ace jack would have been a 3200 pot he said “I’ll show you” and I guess that’s a sign of weakness I overfold man.

[@dylanhom58]

We basically need villain to flat all KQ pre, check raise it 100% on the flop, and barrel it 100% in order to keep calling down here. Or we need villain to have some creative bluffs like J9s Q9s A3s AJs AQs that they barrel at a high frequency. Doesn't seem super likely. Plus assuming we're betting flop polarized since we're multi-way (although betting more frequently could be fine here) we have at least 28 combos of better made hands

[@4BetBarker]

I play in Baltimore a lot. Horseshoe, Live, and MGM...nowhere has a $300 max. MD Live is the smallest at $400

[@guanyu8539]

I thought Horseshoe was $300? Or maybe it just used to be. I haven't played there in, like two years.

[@EthanBlaineMeyers]

The last time I was there it was $400. But according to PokerAtlas they've put it back down and added 2/3 for a 500 max.

[@4BetBarker]

Last I was at horseshoe it was $500 and up to a $15 straddle from any position

[@johnkoo7760]

Your content is awesome. Has helped my game out a lot! Thank you Bart.

[@ernestoleitao8684]

Great work, per usual!

[@noThankyou-g5c]

5:05 what do they mean is villain going to raise TT, 33 here? I feel like sets r what you’re representing when you check raise the flop on a dry (semi) disconnected board

[@ZenMadmanPoker]

When you plug a hand into a solver, you can always put K6s in the limper's range if you want to. And you'll definitely get different results than if you don't. In general, weaker/wider ranges for villains lets hero use larger bet sizes and higher bet frequencies than they could against "proper" ranges. (Not that there's necessarily a proper limp/call-3-bet range from EP.)

[@noex100]

I would like to correct caller about game structure (assuming this is Horseshoe Baltimore): the rake is $5 with a $3 promo drop (which is heavy but the promotions are quite generous so it's not that bad tbh). And the buy-in is up to $400. Much better than described and action is pretty decent there for 1-3. Not amazing but certainly enough to be beatable.

[@leehjones]

I read *nothing* into the "same bet" on the turn, and *everything* into "half-pot shove on the river." The 9 is my exit ramp - the most obvious draw got there, and we're drawing stone dead to it and the sets. I really hope she folds.

[@Jamesbass74]

Missed a trick not calling the title “notice these MIS TAKES at the MID STAKES”

[@88mphDrBrown]

I think it was a decent fold. The guy might of been bluffing off his image, there's just so many things that aren't good here. QJ has to be a massive part of his x/r range that isn't straight value and her Ad is blocking a bunch of semi bluffs including flush draws and gutshots.

[@cmc0605]

Not that this matters much, but I also routinely open to $10 at 1/3 and will start at $15 vs. one limp (and increase from there)...

[@aloha270999]

Folding was ridiculous, just call on the flop was ridiculous too. Next time raise or push all in on the flop. These small ball poker invites trouble. Do you think rampage would fold this hand guy made almost $1 million. Lady if you play tight then you think everyone is tighter.

[@Mathemagical55]

The same size turn bet after a blank turn usually indicates weakness but after a significant turn it can indicate improvement to a nutted hand. I like folding as the only natural semi-bluff (QJ) got there. You can call it down with AA to keep them honest.

[@cedriclenners3737]

In this hand I believe all is about hero and opponent's image. If our Hero has a "tight straightforward woman" image, then villain's turn bet indicates strenght if he is as skillfull as described by the caller. Now, if Hero has an image of afraid player who even fold top top agaibst pressure (my favorite opponents), a good player will abuse of agression. So in that case I would check/shove the turn in hero's place

[@noThankyou-g5c]

is this the mid stakes? 1-3?

[@yiannipapaeracleous9396]

I play at Horseshoe in Baltimore and the max buy-in is 400. A lot of people buy in for 1 or 200 which is annoying because the rake is high ($8). I've played with the caller too lol.

[@shadowwarsshadypeople6299]

I'd most likely call with the Ad here, and prolly shove any diamond river if he doesnt bet, would consider folding some bad rivers, definitely fold to a shove. I think if we don't play our TPTK here then we would be overfolding, right? He might be doing this with K-Qoff with Qd, QJdd, J10d, and other combos too, so I think hero is ahead most of the time on this spot. If we 3-bet A-Koff pre, and then fold to minimal aggression when we hit then with what hands are we going to defend?

[@hershparikh9916]

From an MDF perspective, even if the diamond comes he is not folding to a half pot shove. Stack sizes need to be bigger for him to consider a fold, especially if he is doing this with any type of value.

[@markl8893]

its not a sterotype.Women in general are tighter than men in poker. People gotta stop being snowflakes in 2022 its just the truth

[@collinrasmussen5630]

AK is my least winning hand it seems, never draw out. Good fold. I would also lose sleep over this hand.

[@thrillofitall89]

I havnt finished it.im only at the turn.but this is one of the hardest spots ive seen on the call in show and such a common one at these stakes.. I have a sick feeling this vil. has QJ, but ugh such a gross spot

[@rhcp9009]

Perfectly reasonable fold

[@Stockholm_Syndrome]

She got away cheap. Villian played the hand poorly.

[@mattdavis7740]

Welcome to Baltimore poker, they just bet every street and raise every turn.

[@ronbruh1878]

Bart, you often refer to a player as a "recreational" player. Isn't the vast majority recreational players? Approximately 10-15% of players in a poker room are winning players. Which means at a table of 8 o 9 players, on average, only 1 is going to a "pro" or a winning player. Therefore, shouldn't all of your advice be geared towards recreational opponents? Ty

[@JohnSmith-nx7zj]

I guess there’s no hard and fast rules. I use 3 categories: recreational/fun player, regular/thinking player and pro. Bart’s advice is aimed at regs/thinking players who actually take the game seriously and want to be winning players (even if clearly they aren’t always).

[@RaulGroom]

Nowhere close to 10% of players are winning players. It's a lot closer to 1% than it is to 10%.In raked games almost everybody loses.

[@Edward-xd1td]

@@RaulGroom yeah out of 100 players in my poker room maybe two or three are winners..maybe... tight aggression in position beats these games value betting and making folds as needed when you know your beat..don't be a station

[@garlic_starlet]

I think he means someone who is playing for fun, without a strong interest in studying poker online.

[@jameswalker7420]

One thing to keep in mind. Even if only 5-10% of players are pros, those players tend to play disproportionately more hours and are thus over represented at the table.

[@chrislunk3767]

The dealer should not be giving other players info on other players , they do this a lot and when it gets back to me as 2.5 pro I never tip them again , dealers are some dumb ppl I’ve seen in job period ! U never say a word to them and they insist on using ur first name like ur friends essentially calling u out a reg at the table ( no there not smart enough to do it on purpose)

[@chrislunk3767]

Anybody eles a non tipper and hate dealers with a passion leave a comment below

[@danielhurst8863]

Stopped at 10:45, I don't hate the turn fold at all. The flop check-raise and same bet (betting the same amount as the check raise amount $200 then $200) is often a weakness tell, here stack sizes are such that the same bet means you are pot committed on the river. While foe could check raise with air, TT, 33, QJ are all in that checks-raise range. Plus, the suits matter here, and you are not entirely certain what they were, but let's go with what Bart used. Would foe check raise KQ on the flop? If so, what combinations of KQ could he have. Obvious ones are KsQs, giving Top Pair, back door flush draw, and picks up equity with a J or 9, but that is the only suited KQ on this board that has a backdoor flush draw. You block the hearts. With fewer combo draws you are ahead of, calling becomes less EV+. Yes, you can be getting bluffed out of this pot, but unless you have a specific read on this foe, you would be playing for stacks with just top pair, and you didn't indicate you've seen a ton of bluffs from foe.

[@adamseidel9780]

I agree, it’s definitely not horrible. That 9 is a disaster card, totally hammers villains semi bluff range, and villain’s sizing is fishy setting up an easy call for a pot committed river. I’d probably call down, but it’s not a bad fold.

[@jaylo9421]

You're giving fish too much credit. I doubt vill even thinks on this level

[@iambadatpickingusernames6669]

She said the villain was a capable reg, there's no way a capable reg is raising KQ for value in a multiway 3 bet pot on that dry a board. He could have AK maybe, that would be the only worry.

[@mitchschneider1927]

My experience, playing since 1980s, tells me that women are very sticky and almost never fold to a river raise; I just don't understand why they never believe us men. 🤔😉

[@YoshiBugatti]

s/o to Horseshoe Casino in Baltimore!

[@SerErryk]

I was thinking KTs when he raised flop.

[@leehjones]

10:50 Ahhhhhhhhhh you should never get into the "What did you have?" game. The answer you get has nothing to do with the truth, per se. It's what they want you to hear. That *might* be the truth, but it's only a coincidence that they want you to hear the truth this time. Don't let unseen cards play into your narrative of what happened.

[@leehjones]

And Bart, you should know better than to engage in that kind of discussion. This is all fairies, unicorns, and rainbows they're discussing. Maybe he did have middle set. Maybe he had a diamond draw. Maybe he had 44. The state of his hand is unknown to us and should stay that way.

[@nic4573]

So you think capable 2-5 players get splashy/pushy at lower stakes because the buy in is less?

[@kendob9642]

I do

[@nic4573]

I meant "do" not so. I think so as well.

[@kendob9642]

@@nic4573 playing 1/3 in Vegas I'm an absolute terror. Open like 50% of hands and just run games over early into the morning Tough 2/5 I'm a nit

[@everythingallin4905]

Absolutely. It's what makes us fish again.

[@EfficientRVer]

I fold or shove the flop after the $200 checkraise. Against certain players I might raise to $335, $400, or $600 in all cases shoving any turn. On the flop checkraise, you need to decide whether you're playing for stacks, or just treating your $65 flop bet as a probe to see if he has TT and you got your answer. The turn bet isn't going to be $50, whether you're way ahead, way behind, chopping, or up against the open ender. He's twice as likely to hold AK as TT, so I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned as a real possibility. AK is also 1.5x as likely as QJ suited. 3 combos have you crushed, 6 combos chop, 4 combos are drawing to beat you 31% of the time. You need to know what this particular player is likely to do to your flop shove, before shoving. The snap call with TT is obvious, but other than that, you need to know it's not the only hand he's calling with, to do it. If it is, then the smaller raises come into consideration. There are quite a few players I'd fold to the $200 on the flop, and quite a few who I'd figure out how to get as much money in on the flop as they'll call. Very player dependent. In her exact spot, against an unknown, supposedly tough player who I have no read on, I reraise the flop to $335 to punish the mistake of thinking I'm tight weak, if that was the reason he raised. It's begging for a shove that he'll think is getting snap called. Which he'll then only do with a set.

[@RaulGroom]

flop shove is utterly terrible here

[@B0bi_007]

The 70s called, they want to "find out where you're at" :)

[@EfficientRVer]

@@RaulGroomIt beats deciding to call down, and folding the river anyway.

[@Simon-nv5zj]

possibly the worst advice ever. if you shove, what hands are calling you that you beat for that size?

[@RaulGroom]

​@@EfficientRVer no it doesn't. bet/fold flop or fold turn might be better than call against some players, but it would be hard to find a worse play than shove flop here; you are absolutely owning yourself by doing this. Villain will almost never have KK here, so having a K is bad, you're going to wind up against TT, 33 and KT an overwhelming amount of the time. Even if he would do this with some crazy overplay like KQ, shove still loses money unless he would raise flop and call it off with QJ. taking bad players and turning them into good players by forcing them to get it in good against you, basically. Turn fold kinda reasonable actually; many players will just always have a nutted hand here since QJ got there just about their entire range is two pair plus. With the very small bet though, call can't be too bad, and river appears to be a clear fold.

[@Ieatsouls8787]

That’s a NIT play ladies and gents

[@GotoyourhomeBall]

If villain can thin us to only continuing with sets or better on the turn, aren’t we infinitely exploitable? 3 combos of KK and 3 of TT is all?

[@SerErryk]

In a tough game, yes. In a typical 1/3 game, no.

[@RaulGroom]

In position, folding AK with a Ad doesn't at all mean we only continue with sets or better. KQ/KJ are better, TdXd is better. More equity against value range and still ahead of the bluffs.

[@GotoyourhomeBall]

@@RaulGroom Doubt hero has a 15% 3bet range so these hands aren’t even in there. How are KQ and KJ better?

[@sr4087]

Honey; the honey called his bet on the turn that she thought was representing the nut straight a block bet *leonardo laughing*

[@fevolenko3995]

When villain check raised that flop vs a female 3 better I immediately put him on QJ or TT and a lesser extent KT because imo he puts hero on AK or AA if he has KT..

[@thrillofitall89]

this is correct

[@jake_villanueva]

I’m not folding on the turn. Take my money.

[@georgewbushcenterforintell147]

What exactly is mid stakes ?

[@brochocho2132]

I think having the ace of diamonds is not great in this spot

[@SerErryk]

I don't think it's very relevant. Getting check- raised by backdoors almost never happens at 1/3.

[@iambadatpickingusernames6669]

I'm definitely leaning fold on that turn. It's the absolute worst card in the deck for you. OJ gets there, backdoor diamonds are blocked, no cards really improve your hand substantially on the river.

[@millionaire773]

She should have pushed on the turn imo! Win or lose

[@RaulGroom]

for what purpose?

[@B0bi_007]

@@RaulGroom no purpose, otis is clueless and only thinks about his particular hand and doesn't understand relative hand strength.

[@saltwaterfisher1]

Im jamming flop when they raise me, period. If I get dealt with I get dealt with.

[@B0bi_007]

Perfect strategy, they snap you off with hands that beat you and fold the hands that you beat.

[@FuzzypupPoker]

$8 drop? $300 stacks buy in? Two issues with the game.... #1 you need to play very tight with no limping or calling. It is raise and reraise only. But if you play like a nit here you won't get action. #2 Everyone needs to be $300+ stacks otherwise you will make so little that it isn't even worth playing. This is at my level of play. I wouldn't play this game if more than 1/2 the table wasn't a full stack or more. As played just fold. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, is good at 1/3. They are competent at best and their bluffing frequency is so low that the math just doesn't justify making hero calls. In my lifetime of playing 1/2, 1/3, 2/5 it is incredibly rare someone bluffs. Usually the bluffers are bad player maniacs way more than competent players. By competent means they can beat the bad players but by no means it means they are good. 2/5 you get some good players. But still. I think they underbluff too much. Easy fold in a 3b pot. And what Bart said about absolute bet value is 100% correct. I usually find..... @1/2 a $100 bet usually indicates a strong hand. @2/5 a $200 bet usually indicates a strong hand. @1/3 it can be between the two or depending on the player. Is it a 1/2 player playing out of their comfort zone? Or someone with more money that doesn't want to play 2/5

[@FuzzypupPoker]

FInal note to the caller. Each instance is an independent variable that has no relation to the other. If they got got 4 sets in a row in an hour the chance of getting another set is still the same. I have gone on heaters where I can't lose. I have also gone on coolers where I can't win and I lost my mind for 12 hours. I have seen the worse players make the most atrocious play and just keep hitting 2, 3, and 4 outers hand after hand on players. It happens. So yea he might have been on a heater that whole time.

[@RaulGroom]

@@FuzzypupPoker 12 hours lol that ain't no cooler. 12 weeks, now that's a cooler

[@FuzzypupPoker]

@@RaulGroom When you play enough anything is possible. I had a year where I lost set after set after set after set non-stop at live games. Luckily I kept records and charted the EV or I would have lost my mind.

[@RaulGroom]

​@@FuzzypupPoker Yeah one thing that is very useful about playing online is that you eventually just by brute force have to learn the reality of large numbers of trials. Poker is brutal; the short-term results (and in live play "short-term" means months to years) do not follow any kind of logical pattern and are, for practical purposes, entirely random. It is only over very large samples that the very best players realize an edge. Even quite good players will never actually realize their edge because it takes too long, too many hands to realize a small edge. Until you've played 50,000, 100,000 hands you do not really understand poker. Your brain just doesn't have the equipment to understand how bad players who have no idea what they are doing win hand after hand. That's why poker is such a brilliant gambling game. You are not really capable, without sophisticated analysis tools, of detecting the difference between good and bad play.

[@youtubelife9248]

Lol. You can’t be folding chairs his hands in a live 1/3 game. These idiots would do this with any K

[@cryptolocc6200]

I've never played biased against women, but I think folding TopTop here while holding the A💎, is weak/tight.

[@adamseidel9780]

Ad is a bad card to have here, it takes any bluffs like A10dd or combo bluffs like AJdd off the table.

[@iambadatpickingusernames6669]

The Ad is what makes it a reasonable fold. You block backdoor diamond combo draws like AQ/AJ that might bluff checkraise the flop. The 9d is the absolute worst card in the deck for her hand.

[@williamr4053]

Honestly, with the way that “capable 2/5 player” was running, I initially thought he had TT on the flop raise. Put hero on AK or QQ, and even if hero had exactly KK, villain is never folding due to how they’ve been running. We have all been in sessions with the player that already has an edge over the field, but now they’re catching cards too. Those players really are hard to beat, because you essentially try to beat them by showing down with middling pocket pairs and river counterfeited 2 pairs. It’s this players day and I 100% bet they had TT. The same bet on the turn is just to keep money coming in on the turn. It’s the thought process of they called my reraise of $200, so let’s hit them with the same bet of $200. You bet too small and they could even fold, because it looks like a begging bet. Bet too small and you just leave value on the table as they call you down with a definite loser. Bet too big and you just fold out all hands but hands that beat you. Villain ran well in this session if they’re flopping those many sets!

[@apocalypsepromotions7676]

Villain was bluffing this hand and using his image to do so. He told the story that he was hitting 4-5 sets previously. He's lying, and created his table image in an hour to exploit future hands. She blocks Broadway hands and diamonds. Call all day and break his image to the rest of the table. He doesn't have QJ or 10,10.

[@RaulGroom]

We found the worst take, y'all. Everyone go outside and play.

[@jaylo9421]

No way he had tens. Kq, kj

[@SerErryk]

KT?