Mainz Impression

[@gaiuscaesar3841]

Less HP than her sisters, less armor than her sisters? No new gimmicks or consumables? Even the same torpedoes, even thought Graf Spee has those nice 8km ones....Yup, sure sounds like a German premium ship.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

Got to have something for those arguments, to prove premiums aren't becoming over powered and "pay to win"

[@Spiritus_Invictus]

@@GrasshopperKelly Then why "prove" it on a German ship? Every other tech line get these better premiums, but not the Germans. Hell, the community begged for years for some love to all the German ships and finally after so many years we got in mid 2019 a minor buff in the KM BB's and a decent one to the cruisers. This feels like they just don't want to give the German tech tree some love because of history.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

@@Spiritus_Invictus oof... We needed to go there? XD

[@LegioXXI]

@@GrasshopperKelly Well the russian bias (and anti-bias towards axis in general) is real in WoWs. Its the same with Italy and Japan.

[@arker24]

yes Japan ships have no armor to speak of and that premium light cruiser Yahagi is a joke of a ship

[@wun1gee]

"Heavy cruiser survivability with light cruiser guns" The only difference between light cruisers and heavy cruisers were their guns. More often than not there wasn't much of a difference in survivability between a light cruiser and a heavy cruiser. The difference between "Light" and "Heavy" were the guns.

[@cl4ster17]

Mogami is the best example of this.

[@wun1gee]

@@cl4ster17 Pensacola as well. Pensacola was originally classified as a light cruiser (CL) and then when the naval treaties mandated that 8" guns made her a heavy cruiser she was reclassified as a heavy cruiser (CA). Northampton, Portland and New Orleans were also originally launched with CL classifications and redesignated CAs to fit the mandate.

[@ciuyr2510]

"historically accurate"

[@ciuyr2510]

@steve n its a light heavy light cruiser, because of the amount of bs

[@la_potat6065]

Perfectly said. What a miss conception from notser there.

[@SirTrollingham]

I'm impressed by how the Hindy and Atago sailed into your torps even though they both had hydro up.

[@Ahrgos]

Love how Notser's all like "this thing sucks at setting fires" while showing gameplay of setting 6 fires in one engagement practically back to back XD

[@TheGermanKnowsBest]

As a GK driver, they've been screwing the Germans over by either power grab by other nations, or by having the worst good and bad stats.

[@MythicPi]

My fav are the guns on the BB's "lets give them fantastic arcs so the can hit stuff easily at range, then give them the worse accuracy ingame so they can hit a BB consitently under 10km, the arcs will make them miss the new lowered citadels too, then give them crap pen, crap bounce angles, and crap damage!" "But sir, that means they have nothing going for them???" "Ah yes, you're right, give them moderatly better reloads and turret traverse, that way they'll shut up"

[@Spiritus_Invictus]

I know. I'm a GK main myself and it's just pathetic. This combined with the released info on the T8 Premium BB Odin, basically proves they still hate the Germans of what happened in the past and refused to show the same love other lines get to the KM tech line. Sure the German will get some tweeks here and there, but only they can't get around it.

[@hotpenguin607]

Russian Bias is real

[@tiago4158]

@@hotpenguin607 yes and it's such a kindergarden mentality... You really have to be a masochist to play German BBs... Like I don't get what their idea was, like: "let's put in new ships with REALLY bad accuracy, so no one plays them"

[@lthotpocket8259]

@@tiago4158 in fairness, when the German BBs came in, they were a powerhouse, as back in those days, people didnt just sit at 25km away from the nearest cap. Monty still had a raised citadel and yamato.... well it hasn't changed but a BB with hydro, god tier secondaries, god tier armor, god tier health? That was a real meta changer back in the day.

[@mutzen557]

The fact that WG made IFHE to only trade fire chance for pen, while German line trades both fire chance and a lot of damage for a minor pen increase is just showing that how outdated that concept is. Wg still trying to use a concept that is decided in 2016 in almost a 2020 meta is just nothing but lazy.

[@joshithegreat5303]

Yeah, you are right.

[@MythicPi]

IFHE is literally: what if the german HE trait was a captain skill, and wasnt shite?

[@halolime117]

The real reason is that WG is a Russian company, they don't want to make the German ships as good as they were in reality compared to the Russian "fleet"

[@zwen3763]

They are not lazy, they just got their hands full trying to do too much too soon, quantity over quality.

[@DaManBearPig]

congrats WG,KM continues to be a meme thanks to you. Worried about Odin now.

[@gildedphoenix]

@steve n italians are meme due to their incompetence historically.

[@Meonium]

@steve n how are italian cruisers meme?

[@theunknownone5990]

They didn't get that name right. The German version is Wotan. Even the WoT office in Belarus bothered to get that detail right!

[@eridanampora3811]

@@theunknownone5990Actually, the name Odin has precedence as a ship name as there was a coastal defense ship in WW1 (SMS Odin) that carried the name. Not to be confused with the tanker MV Wotan. (Point being that both Wotan and Odin were names used by the Imperial German Navy.)

[@Gredoxx]

For most people who don't have 19 point captains this is pretty neat

[@sorrynotsorry8224]

Notser: low fire chance Mainz: 6 fires, 6 minutes in

[@notaidan4451]

Sorry NotSorry More like 6 fires in 1-2 minutes as he first fired 4 minute in lol

[@steeltrap3800]

The difference between probability (the % chance) and number of occurrences in a given data set. You could get 20 fires from 20 hits even with a 1% chance. The odds of that happening are extremely low, but it's technically possible. Doesn't mean the chance over a near infinite data set isn't 1%, however. As he correctly points out, it's about 30% l(relative not absolute) lower than obviously comparable ships.

[@Jake_Kern]

Sorry NotSorry Right?!? I was like wtfff

[@Jake_Kern]

Sorry NotSorry he barely got any after that tho

[@motaz1975]

you talk about the crappy HE values but the dam thing lit that baltimore on fire with every salvo!

[@banger2998]

motaz1975 yeah what a poor time to talk about crappy he fire 🔥

[@DaManBearPig]

pure rng and coincidence. Ive watched other CCs trash it too. Mainz is looking weak.

[@gildedphoenix]

Mainz is not looking weak, IT IS WEAK. In fact, all the Germans sucks, just like Japanese DDs, before the "unnerf" of their HE damage. Now IJN DDs are just bad, they now need better concealed torps to be good. (FYI IJN torps known by their stealth, and Germans by their homing capabilities.) But today, Germans are all bad, except maybe Z-46 and Z-52, former is barely good and the latter is just not useful in current meta. Mid tier German DDs suffer from being mediocre, German CAs suffer from not having a thing going for them, but having major backdraws. I mean Shitty AP pen with awesome damage? The damage is still 0 if you can't pen! And HE is so bad that, Hindenburg was a tanky Zao, until Zao got buffed. Now it is worse Zao. Roon is a one turret less Worse Zao, Hipper is a glass cannon, even if she has an "armor". GERMAN BBs have long out of game due to their inaccurate, bad penning guns, weak armor layout that only helps you soak damage in a CQC, but you can't get close because Max range HE meta. And they gave those ISLAND-esque SUPERSTRUCTURES that blazes up like Christmas trees! Graf Zeppelin even lacks power among its rivals. Now i understand the Hilter in Downfall.

[@petervanschepen8809]

Yeah, but....that's really the only ship he lit on fire. 6 on the Balti, but only 7 total. I hate the HE/fire spam meta as much as anyone, but considering all the Mainz has to give up that is pretty pathetic. In theory, CLs are supposed to be DD hunter/killers. Yet when he stumbles onto the Yueyang he's dropping savage 5-7 hit salvos and doing......2k damage. So he isn't filling that role either. It can't consistently light fires and farm damage. It can't hunt and kill DDs. It can't spot and scout. It can't tank, kite, contest, AA escort, or really /do/ anything. It suffers the way the entire national tree suffers. Everything they can do someone else can (much) better at lower opportunity cost.

[@petervanschepen8809]

@@gildedphoenix Eh... I can't agree with you on the IJN DDs, but that is because I hate the Harugumo with all my being. Specifically because it gets the "German" 1/4 pen that the Z-52 doesn't, and because that + IFHE means that those stupid 100mm popguns can shred my "tanky" GK at any angle, from any range, from the impunity of smoke. All while making sure I have 3 fires going at all times. Right now, there is absolutely no reason to play any of the German lines. Even a Monty has more durability, especially if it takes the legendary mod, than the GK does.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

I'll, uh, stick with my lovely Prinz Eugen, thanks.

[@geargrinder5182]

Love that ship. It's just too bad that I suck at cruiser play.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

@@geargrinder5182 I'm only good in cruisers and Battleships. And I'm best in cruisers because I'm a coward. The vast majority of cruisers in the game favor an "opportunist" style of gameplay, which is right up my alley. The Zao is still my favorite T10 cruiser despite recent power-creep edging it out of "top-tier". I absolutely suck at DDs (other than the Akizuki -> Harugumo since they're basically like mini cruisers without a citadel) because they require the best game-sense... at least more than I'll ever have.

[@geargrinder5182]

@@Spectacular_Insanity Im better at DD and BB. I usually die because Im too aggressive, sometimes to th epoint of being stupid about it.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

@@geargrinder5182 Cruisers are a weird class. Powerful DPS, but also very vulnerable. They also vary widely in play-style, more so I would say than DDs or BBs. You have to not expose yourself to enemy fire if possible, but you can't play too passively or you're not contributing anything to your team. Best way I've figured out to do both is fire openly but be kiting away when you do while actively maneuvering, using islands to break line of sight when things get too hot. I play a lot of Zao in that style of gameplay can work well in most of the cruiser lines.

[@joshuapicklesimer1084]

Finally glad to see Notser upload again, especially with a video showing us the Mainz.

[@motaz1975]

because EVERY nation needs HE spam ship. so good for the game.

[@MadSpectro7]

Do you know NOTHING about German cruisers? This is going to be an AP spammer.

[@lthotpocket8259]

@@MadSpectro7 your probably one of the people who spam AP in a hinden against an angled ship. Spamming AP with 6" guns is not going to work at all

[@Anldiot69]

Some complain about the fire chance of the HE. I think it was just luck, because RNG can be really inconsistent on that. I saw another preview, where the player played a full game and used around 70% HE and landed 180 shells in total. He set 1 Fire in the entire battle, what seems very poor.

[@syukrir.robert8994]

An idiot this, im using worseter the other day and manage to set 3 fire out of 348 shells fired, sounds impossible, but it happen

[@dailyisdead]

Can we actually get a single good German ship for once?

[@SouthParkCows88]

Shit bro I'm hoping!! Maybe the Siegfried won't be as bad.

[@lthotpocket8259]

@@SouthParkCows88 Siegfried in testing was fucking horrible. And this is coming from someone who played well over 100 battles with her during testing

[@aaasssaaaxj]

@@lthotpocket8259 What a nightmare....

[@gildedphoenix]

There is. It is called Scharnhorst. Only good ship Germans have.

[@kristovo9636]

@@gildedphoenix Only if you dont overpen everything you should pen

[@unclelou8636]

Thanks for this, as always! Appreciate your content. Disappointed to hear that Mainz needs so much help. I wondered when I first heard about her being a German light cruiser at tier 8; the concept didn't really sound competitive to me. Light cruisers at high tier generally seem relegated to being high ROF HE spammers, and with the Germans having handicapped HE and Mainz specifically having mediocre ROF it just seems like there is no synergy there - no niche for her to fill. I may still get it just for sh*ts and giggles, as I like German ships despite most of them suffering due to power creep. More interested in Siegfried, if it ever makes it to live; waiting to see more about Odin.

[@GeofftheIronwolf]

Give it back 27mm bow and stern and a heal. Ship would be fine. BUT NOOOO.

[@gildedphoenix]

Oh please, it is not like it's that bad. I mean, they can always revoke the German HE pen. So this can be worse than trash.

[@petervanschepen8809]

@@gildedphoenix Ya mean like they have with all the German DDs, despite giving that pen to the Aki, Kita, and Haru?

[@gildedphoenix]

@@petervanschepen8809 I understood that giving 5 inch guns /4 HE pen would be broken as it would be able to pen 31mm with ease, but they don't think the outcomes and they started giving everyone /4 pen lately. I wouldn't even surprised if Smolenks were to get this as well.

[@slaine7345]

8:10 im a loss of words for the MBBR person he had hydro on but still ran into torps

[@davidwoods7408]

Ditto.

[@softlineify]

My guess is that he had his dick in one hand and a sandwich in the other, and was just bashing his face against the keyboard to move his ship.

[@mikehenthorn1778]

Okay good review WG another ship the pass on like the entire Italian Cruiser line. Thanks for the review sir

[@komradeklutch6215]

Props to Notser for dusting off and bringing out the ROFLStomp.

[@Matt43]

Would love to see a T8/9/10 how to German DD with a current build video soon! :) Keep up the great work sir

[@reverendkrv]

I thought the difference between a light cruiser and a 'heavy' cruiser is the size of it's guns?

[@wramsey2656]

The Russian T7 Crusier Lazo is very fun to play in my opinion because it has it has a spotter plane. I have hit more than a few targets over the top of the islands at distance and it was quite the entertaining game. Now if they took this Mainz and gave it a similar feature you might get some buyers.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

I also don't understand why WG thought it was a good idea to A maintain the turret rotation speed of a heavy 203mm mount, when they're much lighter 152mm mounts, and strip her naked of her nation specific armour?!

[@doomsday9790]

I think having a heal would help or maybe new ammunition: SUP (Special underwhelming projectile) Just kidding a little Italian SAP joke 😉

[@leonardhofstadter8008]

speshul*

[@Darkhorse393]

They should give us the Ontario or Quebec or even better both. They should have everything a player will want.

[@Windzy]

Fiji class cruiser with Haida smoke would be fun to see in game

[@RobertBriggsTheTech]

Good points and suggestions made there Notser. Talking about the low fire chance, low alpha with HE, light armor , etc, etc ... such a mediocre Tier 8 Premium German cruiser, and then would ya look at that, @11:53 - a casual 120k damage w/5 kills in a Tier 8-10 match. Lol GG @Notser

[@LordKrobekishnuv]

My wishes for a tier 10 heavy German cruiser: heavier armor than others ( think something between scharnhorst and hindenburg) with 4x3 scharnhorst guns, so smaller caliber, exchanged for faster reload (16-19 seconds) with either tirpitz or Graf spee torps, and the consumable line up would be hydro, heal, and fighter.

[@midgarstrife914]

Is there any news about Odin battlecruiser?

[@DaManBearPig]

BB* and it'll be ass if the Mainz is anything to go off of. The KM doesn't get good things.

[@midgarstrife914]

@@DaManBearPig yeah it's sad to see KM got butchered by WG in the sake of balans, sure they got turtleback armour scheme but I think it's not enough in the current meta

[@DaManBearPig]

@@midgarstrife914 but turtleback isnt even a real advantage if you think about. KM BBs rarely get overpen'd

[@alexchapman3995]

This may be non historical but maybe give this ship some sort of super AP like APCR or HEAT. I imagine a playstyle where you'd rush into cover to negate your range issues and then use your hydro, extra AP damage, mega penitration values, plus high rate of fire to evaporate ships at close range in a 1v1 ambush. The AP could even have some special modifier where it normalizes under a certain distance allowing it to over match armour at certain angles that it usually couldn't.

[@wen87n]

Easy, buff rate of fire, give heals and long range secondary.

[@valharris9346]

At the engagement ranges these days there is no use for secondary builds.

[@petervanschepen8809]

@@valharris9346 Sadly true. I mean they have wrecked so many other mechanics trying to arcade simulate close range engagements, but they handicap the guns that would actually be used in such engagements.

[@Windzy]

I'd buff the gun caliber to 152mm or maybe even 155mm so their AP can be a little more effective and offset the bad HE. Then of course buff the armor (especially the bow) so it can give the Mainz it's quirk for being a tanky light cruiser. If they don't buff the Mainz in some way like this, then their bias will show

[@omerbkcgl]

Ship has good shell arcs so I would buff the gun reload to 5.5 sec and turret traverse to 18 sec, reduce detection and gun range to light cruser level, I would reduce the shells airdrag just a bit like they did on US CL Seattle.

[@tiago4158]

Gun reload is good enough, no need for more HE Spam ships, but the detectibility range is pretty crappy

[@Benepene]

it needs a reason to exist, okay lets give it heal, smoke, radar and increased firing rate consumables

[@petervanschepen8809]

Obviously don't give it ALL those things, but give it /something/. I'm never gonna get it, and the final nail in that coffin was watching Notser slap that DD with 5-7 hit salvos...but only deal 2k damage. So it is an HE spammer with bad alpha that can't set fires, and a DD hunter that can't kill DDs. What bloody good is it?

[@domitiusseverus1]

I reckon that this should be Tier VII instead. Also: I think the name is wrong. Lutzow or Seydlitz would be more historical, maybe Ziethen. Calling this ship Mainz means it could be confused with any future version of the planned M class light cruisers

[@halolime117]

I don't understand why us KM players never get some amazing stuff, just because of German history WG decides to make them mediocre and ofc make the russian "fleet" a bit better than everyone else

[@petervanschepen8809]

Oh it is more than a bit better. Especially at the high tiers.

[@kolopomokolopomo9649]

>Complains about He fire chance >Does set a fire every salvo shot at the beginning

[@chrishopwood6938]

8% fire chance is better then UK light cruiser

[@matthewculley5959]

I don't get it, why not make the Blucher? Or the Seydlitz?

[@Warmaker01]

She looks infinitely more useful than these new Italian Cruisers.

[@ZaffaPlaysGames]

You touched on this yourself but if they want german CLs to be worthwhile without being just another HE spam line they either need to make the AP more worthwhile to use (buff normalization or make it short-fuze AP or something) or improve survivability with earlier/better heals than other lines.

[@BinkyTheElf1]

Yay! A new ship in which to Pull Notsers!

[@CaptainBogroll]

What does "On cooldown" mean? Cooldown of repair party at a guess?

[@Pandemic1313]

Firing the guns as soon as they are loaded

[@madmoff]

Really feels like Mainz needs a heal to help her survivability. I can live with lower HE shell damage if I can live long enough to let the damage build up.

[@petervanschepen8809]

Eh, that just reinforces the bad, broken meta of CLs that burn down BBs. They are supposed to be DD hunters. The Mainz is neither, as it can't deal reliable damage to anything.

[@CSSBTGaming]

Without a heal and with the nerfed plating, the ship is almost better off as a tier 7... Otherwise it can probably be made to work like a German Mogami. I do like how the ship has 12 barrels and kind of look like a mini Hindy though.

[@twinfamily]

Mogami and Cleveland need IFHE. So, with DE, they will get respectively 9% and 11% fire chance. 10% for Mainz with DE... Not bad at all. AP at 3900 dmg is quite good, and 2km more range than the other light cruisers... nice, no? AA seems to be very good, on the contrary, and the torps are always usefull. Just a heal is needed, I agree. German hydro and vigilance, you can for instance really help your teammates to spot torpedos

[@sambalzone94]

different gameplay from the ship description eh. *looks at akizuki, kitakaze, harugumo* >aa ship >no DFAA >somehow got that torp reload booster and quarter pen

[@jamescossey6372]

I think what Needs to happen is the Commander tree needs more options. I would love for it to go away from cookie cutter trees. Instead have enough options that are good that you Need to figure out how you are going to play the ship and what talents will best suit those needs. Skills that Make you think do I need more damage more tanky or more utility. Maybe even add in to get the last point on a row you have to have X amount of points in that section.

[@sonartech7721]

There are people watching this right now spinning in circles, chasing their own elbows going, “120K damage and 4 kills? Here’s my credit card.”. That’s unfortunate.

[@ashdroid0755]

27mm bow and stern would have made perfect sense for not having a heal But now with 25mm bow and stern having a heal seems necessary than a gimmick

[@MadSpectro7]

Give it more HP and faster turret traverse.

[@giano427]

Just tried it out last night, feels like a German Atlanta, lol.

[@mrtencza]

Or German Cleveland, or Bayard.

[@gildedphoenix]

It is like unwanted sibling of Hipper. Everything of the ship is bad. Even its armor (could've been only the only thing that makes her) nerfed to 25mm because they thought it was a bad idea. Guns are T5 guns that are useless in T8 (no surprise), torps are the FUCKING SAME TORPS! GODDAMN WHY THEY DON'T HAVE ANOTHER TORPEDO VALUES FOR GERMANS?! AA is good, after all it's a Hipper copy, but a Hipper hull comes with Hipper concealment... ON A CL THAT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE DOG. DAMN. ARMOR! I had hopes for this, but now it turned into Steiner's attack.

[@raphiontherocks1591]

So if it's a Hipper hull that means it also has that semi-turtleback?

[@Nicholas_Burmeister]

"The Mainz sucks!" Proceeds to get a kracken...

[@venn2001ad]

Mainz will be... minez, when she is released. Get it? Eh? EH?? LOL. x) Seriously though, I agree with your assessment of including the Repair Party. Or something. Anything. She really does sounds so... hum-drum, as she is now.

[@Liecho]

Maybe this is their chance to rebrand German cruisers, we don’t need more HE spam, rebrand them as a long range AP ship. Just make their shell heavier, improve the AP angle revert the 1/4 HE and there u got a brand new line that prioritise long range AP spam over HE (rn doesn’t count cuz they r forced to use ap) this would be more fun than the same old range mode spam fires. And might make players not drive full broad side getting one shotted by bb. #makehindygreatagain

[@DerPolygonianer]

Yeah, I recently started playing again after a three-year break and I mostly have German ships. Feels really bad. The Königsberg has bad armor, bad acceleration, bad rudder response, and not even good accuracy. HE doesn't do any damage and AP mostly works only on cruisers, but only when theyre giving broadside. What's the Point of having good AP damage when you can't reliably hit and punish people that give broadside?

[@winniolanimus138]

The trait could be quite awesome tbh... its just that the Captain Skilltree isnt that amazing

[@wun1gee]

M-PROJECT! It's about time.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

Yes, that definitly looks like a Kolberg class light cruiser.... I don't understand why WG didn't call her Lützow or even Seydlitz.

[@AtlasAS7D]

WG is has most likely reserved those names for either a German BB line split or for future premium ships since those names are so strongly connected to Jutland to realistically do otherwise.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

@@AtlasAS7D so they took another name from another ship.... If that's their genuine intention it's making it worse....

[@xmlthegreat]

There needs to be a RoF increase for these turrets if this ship is gonna be competitive. The 7 second reload is just stupid.

[@zip7275]

Why are WG so intent on releasing Premium ships that are underwhelming?

[@obviousobviously2666]

Looks like this ship just needs a faster ROF.

[@ariltherandomguyonyoutube5220]

Basically give it Nürnberg's turrets instead of the current Königsberg's

[@martigrey5872]

It should get heal because it has weak HE but the AP is still good against cruisers.

[@GrasshopperKelly]

She's not a battle cruiser, or panzer schiff...

[@martigrey5872]

@@GrasshopperKelly neither is the Eugen or atago so what's your point?

[@GrasshopperKelly]

@@martigrey5872 I'm telling you what WG thinks xD They've stripped her naked of her armour too... At this point, she's there purely to show in those arguments that "premiums are becoming better than standard ships, and so pay to win"

[@GrasshopperKelly]

She should come equipped with 96 EMC mines as consumables... Or maybe have 8 consumables with 12 mines?

[@Wellituu]

light cruiser with 12km detectability?

[@jackyyip5468]

better crank up the hype for the Odin I guess

[@tigermafiaug1615]

If it is tier V gun, they need to reduce reload speed to make it better.

[@winniolanimus138]

Dont you shoot AP on DDs in a german light cruiser?

[@JC-xz4ec]

I was thinking that myself. Even in my Roon (didn't mean to put Room, lol) I tend to get better damage out of it's AP than it's HE on DDs just due to overpens. I'm pretty sure light cruiser guns would do that much better than a heavy cruiser.

[@LegioXXI]

The axis as a whole (with just a few exceptions like Yamato) are becoming a meme in World of Warships.

[@tiago4158]

Russian bias keeps getting stronger

[@IIIJG52]

Was that a radar Yueyang in randoms ?

[@supsup335]

Looks Like an Admiral Hipper

[@srir.5282]

Id like the germans to have increased AP pen. That should be their trait, positioning yourself and flanking the enemy with crossfire with your infernal AP. You saw how much damage your AP was doing to that musashi broadside? That should be the german CA/CL goal. But they need a better AP penetration. I don't understand why wWG gave the americans the improved AP angles and the germans the improved he pen, it should have been the other way around.

[@chrisdietz5663]

So change the gun reload to the reload on the tier 6, and give it the Prince Eugen Heal...

[@gothicalpha]

How to fix it. Make the HE so full damage when it hits not reduced damage. Give it a heal, and make it a heavy cruiser with 30-32 mm bow and stern.

[@FeathorFerengi]

Those CL guns aren't even the Nürnberg guns, those are the Königsberg guns. With Nürnberg's guns you'd get 1.2 seconds faster reload which would definitely offset the anemic HE. Give her back her 27mm armor. Those two changes would already be QoL improvements. But it's WG. Releasing garbage premiums for Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary and Japan is what they do. I'd be very surprised if they actually buffed Mainz.

[@jakehickox7275]

02-2023 gg a light cruiser out-gunning everyone! 16

[@ShibalSsi]

As you are saying that fire chance is low you start 5 fires in 30 seconds.

[@charilaoskaragkounis7412]

ever heard of a thing called "pure luck"? Go check on other CCs, the fire chance is really low on all german ships

[@ShibalSsi]

@@charilaoskaragkounis7412 i know, just funny as he said it 😬😆

[@rocketman1104]

Um, why cant we have an M class CL? At probably tier 7 or so

[@sireneracker8293]

Rocket Man M-class was the ultimate form of inefficient design. Almost 2,000 tons heavier than the Königsberg class for marginal gains in protection and speed while trading in firepower. Tier 5 material at best.

[@rocketman1104]

@@sireneracker8293 No way those would be tier 5, the gun velocity characteristics are slightly improved on the M Class, Range and speed were drastically increased. And the belt armor was slightly better. But Yes I do agree that it was definitely an inefficient design, they would have been better to improve the Königsbergs turrets and guns and alter the hull. But hey, the M class was designed at a time that germany was still trying to figure out what the heck they were actually going to do, Plan Z afterall extended out to 1946 or so.

[@sireneracker8293]

@@rocketman1104 The M-class was to utilize the more modern 150mm L/55 C/28 in contrast to the K-class' 150mm L/60 C/25. Putting aside that the M-class would have carried one less gun in total, the performance of the two weapons is mostly in favor of the older but also longer weapon, with the big advantage of the C/28 being that it had like twice the barrel life and was thus more reasonable when you weren't expecting it to perform highly to begin with. The cruising range was not really improved, on the contrary. The K-class had a cruising range of 8,000nm at 10kn (Diesel) + 7,300nm at 17kn (turbines), or if they would fill every bunker cell with Diesel it'd be around 18,000nm at 10kn, exceeding even Deutschland's range. The M-class with 8,000nm at 19kn, while being somewhat faster at it, does not have the reach of the K-class. The belt of the M-class had the same thickness with 50mm compared to the K-class, with only the armor material being slightly better as there were 12 years between the classes. Behind that the M-class may go for the abomination that the turtleback was, but as it in fact opens up the possibilities for fluke shots that on the K-class would not work and gives her some of the oddest shaped vital areas I have ever seen (here a section taken from Gröner's, what the hell is that shape? cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390101883148304386/637740333211320341/unknown.png ), I question if the protection is really an improvement. Of course the same weight could have been used for an armored belt of 100mm and a main armored deck with 30-35mm, and no noticable changes to weight. Germany had some highly promising designs with their first ships (excluding Emden), the K-class and the Deutschland class had potential. And the more room the designers got to implement "German" ideas, the worse it got. For the light cruisers it went over Leipzig and Nürnberg to whatever the M-class became, and the Deutschlands somehow were followed up by the Admiral Hipper class. What the Germans needed to make actually workable designs were tight rules they would have to follow.

[@rocketman1104]

@@sireneracker8293 Completley agree, i was going more for the fact that its speed and range together was interesting, though I am skeptical how the Diesel engines for cruising, and turbines for high speed would have worked. The turtle back was the clear sign that the germans were well behind modern naval tech, but afterall, it was meant for ships to fight at closer ranges, the issue is that even though it protected the areas under it quite well, everything above it would be destroyed, the fire control, communications, secondaries, everything, meanwhile AoN allowed for more armor in areas that needed it the most. The germans after the Deutschlands did plan the P class, but they werent really improvements, just a larger hull with the Sharnhorsts slightly improved guns, and the same amount of them. But those got scrapped from plan Z shortly before the war kicked off. Thanks for going through all the work to dig out information, really helps a lot to clarify things!

[@StupidDanimations]

Anyone else notice that hindy take all those obvious torps despite having hydro running? SMH

[@StupidDanimations]

... and also the atago, Jesus, why even use hydro if you aren't gonna pay any attention?

[@raulalexandrubota]

You must play against noobs to get a great dmg in this ship 😂

[@azraelswrd]

@@raulalexandrubota they make the best kind of vids to show off ships. Only times I ever see THAT many ships sailing full broadside/blind/unaware are either in a CC video or in co-op by bots, lol.

[@psmith6166]

Every tier 8+ cruiser SHOULD have a heal, but we must have our tech tree road blocks to make players spend free xp. This Mainz is about as vanilla a ship as you can make, it's as if the concept was to give a ship the most mediocre stats, features and consumables possible in the game while also fulfilling no role.

[@davidwoods7408]

I like my Hindi too much. I'll save judgement on this one....though I did notice you had taken out 2 heavies already and you were saying about low survive ability vs heavy's.......?

[@petervanschepen8809]

Only because they were stupid enough to sail straight into torps despite having hydro spot them. Besides, in the wonky world of WG CLs are supposed to be DD hunters, not brawlers by any measure. So the fact that a superduper unicum can kill a potato Hindi does nothing to compensate for the fact that he couldn't kill that Yueyang.

[@Edelweiss482]

Isn't that just the German line in a nutshell though? If you want X, Y or Z there is a better ship for it.

[@carlospitteri3146]

I forgot how stupid broken the kutuzov is lmao

[@bigblue4364]

Instead of IFHE you could go get a 3rd tier skill or 2 second tier skills? To me not needing IFHE is a pretty big deal, as someone who moth balled my kutuzov for months because the Moskva commander no longer had IFHE; Even tho I love the kutuzov it's totally crap and borderline unplayable without IFHE.

[@lordjor96]

"We haven't seen a CL in tier VIII" Cleveland: I'm a joke to you?

[@PitchBlackYeti]

Well, unless you're a Moskva there is no such thing as "Heavy cruiser survivability". The Moskva being a heavy cruiser-that is another matter...

[@ispyonthefbi]

Notser, why not Treat the Mainz like a British Cruiser without smoke and with HE

[@ar_roc]

Yay

[@timber_wulf5775]

Dear god give this thing two heals at least

[@Alienvisitor007]

The problem with this ship is that it was not made in mother russia comrads

[@lordroo8484]

Worse reload than Nürnberg? Dumb. Give it at least Nürnberg's 6 sec reload ffs!

[@darkalucard51]

What a bad team, hydro ON, they all go in torps omg. Great vidz ;)

[@lydethgullam7601]

I would take the Prinz Eugen over this over any day, any battle, any scenario.

[@horror11]

rule of thumb for not so experienced players and no cc will tell u ever :DONT BUY A TIER 8 SHIP WITHOUT HEAL (except kutuzov ofc xd) u will just be cannonfodder or have to hide the whole game because 90% of ur games will be in tier 10 games which will just shit on u like no tommorrow and they all have heal .

[@LordKrobekishnuv]

I'm so tired of the Germans being shafted in this game...

[@tiago4158]

Yea it's really annoying but WG keeps getting away with it... Russian bias all the way= they are behaving like kids

[@shinkicker404]

@@tiago4158 Imagine if someone went and bought them out then gutted all the fantasy crap.

[@LordKrobekishnuv]

@@shinkicker404 that's be good.. and bad

[@tiago4158]

@@shinkicker404 dream come true

[@petervanschepen8809]

@@shinkicker404 Y'all say that, and I resent some of the wonky arcade mechanics as much as anyone, but if they accurately modeled WWII era naval engagements and doctrine nobody would ever play. Firing over the horizon at ships you can't even see would get old really fast. So would running out of shells, having to manage speed based on weather/sea conditions, limited strategic flexibility imposed by fuel limits... Ok, /I/ would love playing that game, but there is no way you could maintain a profitable player base when all anyone wants to play are MOBAs and FPS lol

[@Musiclegible]

HIT THE DD NOTSER.....WTF

[@TrueStahl]

I Really hope they rework her...

[@steinystien1989]

It needs something, a heal or anything.

[@shinkicker404]

I think I'll just stick with Eugen...

[@TwoCraZyEyes0]

lol light cruisers have 25 and heavy cruisers have 27? uhh why does moskva have 25? the heaviest of heavy cruisers lol

[@petervanschepen8809]

To make you think she should be balanced....while that 25mm stalinium goes right ahead and shrugs off BB AP anyway.