What We Learned From Bill Gothard and Michelle Obama | Ep. 325

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[@CityofEvelyn]

The world needs more Katie’s and Elisha’s ❤ I always appreciate your perspective and ability to step outside your eco chamber while always praising the Lord and his gospel 🙏

[@SarahSherwin-vo2vi]

Please read Jinger Duggar’s book on her disentaglement from IBLP. Sounds like the teaching was extremely damaging to many people.

[@cderry10]

Katie were you there?! How did you know it didn’t happen, then? It’s just like our next door neighbor can be experiencing abuse and we don’t know.

[@brittanydyer8454]

I’d stay clear of anything Gothard. I was at those conferences too. Totally a cult. Pretty sad stuff.

[@cderry10]

So lame to even defend him when he has decades of problematic behavior and there are tons of other people who teach similar things to him *without* all the disgusting abuses attached to their name.

[@morgantaylor4308]

Very disappointing defending Gothard and diminishing the victims.

[@gracereece2097]

Agreed! First of all, it is incredibly difficult to retroactively prove that he committed a crime unless you can get credible witnesses. Secondly, just because they couldn't prove it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Thirdly, he absolutely did prey on vulnerable young women, whether or not he actually committed any crimes. Fourth, his teachings did lead to the lack of accountability that allowed Josh Duggar (and many other young men and older men) to get away with criminal actions MULTIPLE times. His teachings ALSO deny the existence of marital ra*e, and place an incredible amount of pressure on wives to always be "joyfully available" to their husbands, and victim blame the wives of unfaithful husbands. Additionally, while the IBLP wasn't super culty at first, it definitely is now. Bill Gothard is NOT a good man who was falsely accused. He is a bad man who MIGHT have been falsely accused of some crimes, but definitely still taught and teaches false, harmful theology, and should not by any means be considered "honorable".

[@breanna7005]

Elisha and Katie’s quarterly book reviews are some of my favorite videos that they upload! I’ve been listening to their podcast since 2018 and have a lot of respect for them. I am a conservative Christian like many of you viewing and I was surprised as well by the Bill Gothard book being on the list. I think the problem with Elijah’s and Katie’s defense of Bill Gothard ( I watched shortly after the video was released and it may have been edited out now) is revealed in Elijah’s review of Gothards book itself. Elijah talks about how it seems cultish and borderline prosperity gospel, etc. which is opposite of the true gospel. Nothing about any of Gothards literature is biblically sound so why would we expect this man to live a biblically sound life? If we judge according to (Matthew 7:16-27 ) he was not a true Christian. I was concerned about why he was defended to such an extent? I understood the points that they were making but at the end of the day we don’t know what was happening to these women because we weren’t there and shouldn’t assume that he was innocent of all wrongdoings when nothing in his teachings would make us think that his only desire was to pursue Christ. I really do enjoy hearing their perspectives on various topics and of course the book reviews!

[@valeriya105]

Anything from Gothard is twisted. Quite dangerous to be considering taking any lessons from him 😬 i think when you grew up in a good family, it’s hard to see how his teachings affected and caused such damage to thousands of other families. No lessons should be taken from any cult, no matter “how good”. There’s tons of other places to look. You’re the exception not the rule. Edit to add: it’s interesting how EVERY single cult leader is somehow sexually depraved or is a pedophile. Also, highly recommend looking into Michael Obama.. not Michelle… lots of info there..

[@Rachel-eh3oc]

The last part 😂😂

[@valeriya105]

@@Rachel-eh3oc I had to add a subtle reminder lol

[@constanceglad32]

Agree, Michael is more interesting to look at😊

[@ancientinquirer7550]

Elijah is not defending Bill Gothard at all- he is quite critical of the organization. Katie plainly states she doesn’t know why families were following a guy who was not married and did not have children.

[@RCGWho]

Was it them or just someone in the comments that said all the allegations were "proven" false?

[@melissaferrer7051]

I was wondering if people listened to it to the end. And if they did, they have a big problem with interpretation. I was concerned before I listened to this episode and then when I finished it, I just loved their opinions on it.

[@RCGWho]

@@melissaferrer7051 The book is sold only on Bill Gothard's website as a defense of him and his ministry. It's not sold on Amazon.

[@jaord530]

Jinger Duggar addressed how she thinks he gained a foothold and im curious if that’s backed by dates and happenings. Apparently he (literally) capitalized on the fear of parents during the free love/sexual revolution and turbulence in the country. He adapted his principles from his research dissertation and used testimonials from parents of inner city kids and families he worked with to promote, network and market. People, esp conservative Christians, wanted tangible and implementable ways to save their families and bought and consumed his content at great cost. Unfortunately unchecked allegiance to fallible figureheads lends to havoc for the leader and all those who follow. Children of those who follow sadly have no choice in the matter and end up as collateral damage. This happens again and again in small and large churches alike. Legalistic settings are even more primed for this set up. Abuse atrocities on all scales take place, yes even those that sound unbelievable, Katie. I didn’t take most of what y’all said as defense of Gothard, the opposite actually, but his organizations have closely overlapped with child reform and behavior camps etc. People were absolutely abused up to and including death at several of these fundamentalist affiliated places. In those instances it took years, several investigations, and sometimes family linked whistleblowers to expose and shut them down. The stories and proven accounts are truly sickening. I’m not saying they were Gothard organizations at all but I am saying to so surely deny someone’s story and stated experience without actual knowledge because of the way it “sounds” is a mistake and poor heart posture in my opinion.

[@kimstruck910]

What the heck is this??? Something weird is going on here.

[@RCGWho]

I'm planning to watch Shiny Happy People & read A Matter of Basic Principles:Bill Gothard and His Cultish Teachings.

[@olumbafamilyfaith9396]

try reading the new york times if you want to understand viewpoints that are often opposed to a conservative christian perspective. i have a subscription and read it almost daily. it is a great exercise in critical thinking development and helps me to further explore, strengthen, and solidify my christian convictions against the backdrop of secularism. we actually give our teens nyt articles to examine and critique to help hone their logic and rhetoric skills.

[@annlinros]

Thanks for your comment, what else do you do to develop critical thinking in your children ? Have you done anything while they were still small ?

[@myfatherisgreater120]

I think being able to disagree agreeably is a mark of maturity.

[@taylors3547]

Amen.

[@myfatherisgreater120]

youtube.com/@shinyslander?si=M1tuIU2iSUuhPeo8 To give a fair hearing , this journalist did a series on Bill Gothard, IBLP dealing with each of the accusations in shiny happy people.

[@audreykrueger8273]

I loved hearing about the books you have read and your insight on them. I do not hear either of you praising Bill Gothard nor Michelle Obama. What I hear is that you can agree to disagree with them. You can see the good things but also call sin what it is...sin. I went to a few of B.G. conferences as a teen and also attended a very legalistic church. I do not attend one any longer but still have respect for people who do. We just happen to not share the same views on certain things. I appreciate your podcasts so much. Although I am raising teenagers right now I still learn so much from your podcasts. Thank you from Nampa, ID.

[@RCGWho]

Bill Gothard was defended, and Michelle was extolled.

[@shaylinedmond2256]

Wondering if those who posted negative comments actually listened to the episode?? This episode was great. I’m excited to read some of the recommended books.

[@RCGWho]

Listened to the whole thing. Might listen again if you think we missed something.

[@lifeatpecancottage5263]

Great episode! Interesting responses in the comments. I have not read Becoming, but have it and intend to read it. I did read Michelle’s first book and was impressed with her…especially when she took her nursing child with her to an interview and told them what she was and wasn’t willing to do for the sake of her family. Regarding the Gothard stuff. I admire people who are willing to dig a little deeper and not just trust a film as their final authority. I won’t be reading anything by or about him; but think it’s interesting to consider his (Gothard’s) whole story when making judgments.

[@heathere9240]

I recommended your channel to my Son and daughter-in-law…now I have to share that I will never recommend your channel again. Do your research…I wish you well.

[@taylors3547]

I still plan on recommending the channel. The content they post regularly has been a blessing to our family and I think just because I don’t agree with every single morsel they post doesn’t mean there isn’t value here. But I happen to agree with a lot of what they post. I love their book reviews and I love that they are not scared to go outside of their beliefs to learn how others think. In fact I think that is extremely admirable and something more people should do. I’m not an Obama fan and wouldn’t even have considered reading her book but it’s admirable that Katie and Elisha are trying to learn about other perspectivas and not living in an echo chamber like so many in the US. I think it was great. Reading a book by someone doesn’t mean one is going to suddenly follow their ideas. It is just taking a dive into how that person processes the world and can be insightful to those that are curious how others think. We need to be able to think critically and teach our children how to think critically so they can recognize the difference between good and bad ideas. I personally have the utmost respect for Katie and Elisha and what they are doing.

[@creativereindeer]

Well done Luke! I edit The Bible OverBrew vodcast and have big respect for this kind of tidy-up! Nice work, even if having the dog involved would have also been a joy ahah! K&E, Gothard is obvs hot button and I respect your generosity and understand where you’re coming from, after listening to a lot of you on most episodes you post but even though you didn’t endorse him I feel people on a non close listen might take what you say and use it to silence people in the Church who have genuine hurt... I am not sure if you finished the Happy Shiny People doc but it ends VERY dark… again you want the legal system to be upheld but having recently listened to The Body Keeps The Score (would recommend) it has helped me understand how traumatic memories are not stored the same way and so are both visceral and often non-sequential. I’m bludgeoning the book here but it gives space for these awful scenarios to make not abundant sense when under the microscope and it would take HUGE emotional reserve to come out and say something etc. I have experienced work place bullying and it can really mess with your head… just to frame both sides. Really value your content and respect you both, hope this is received in kindness, bests from London :)

[@cmt2936]

I have to say, I’m disappointed 😔

[@lovinglifefreely]

It truly is sad that false teachers like Bill Gothard & so many others have such followings. Just really impresses how much more we need to know & understand Gods word & read our bibles more!!

[@ackreft]

I love your content and it is always so encouraging. I disagree with how you handle and spoke on Bill Gothard. Maybe that was not your experience in it but it doesnt mean it is not happening. I agree that we have to be very careful because it is so easy for women to claim thing and it has no bases which is an unfortunate for actual victims that try to come forward but thinks no one will believe them. Over all I highly appreciated the book recommendations even Michelle Obama's I will probably be reading.

[@Dana-mb1hd]

Love you guys ❤❤

[@stacybarb1758]

It would be nice to do a close up of the book covers or list the books in the details

[@NowThatWereAFamilyPodcast]

You can view our "Shop Our Library" in the link in the description of all the books. Here is the link from our website as well - www.nowthatwereafamily.com/shop-my-library

[@djrenault]

awesome stuff

[@laurens8623]

No we don't hear any tractors

[@wendychamberlin242]

Seriously? So disappointed.

[@SaraiDeLaCruz-e9d]

Why?

[@cderry10]

I know it’s disappointing that their immaturity and glaring disregard for victims comes across in this episode. I’ve seen bits of it in the past and wanted to think the best but it’s too much to excuse away now. Clearly they don’t understand how a super powerful influential person can get away with much more than the average man. And the reason they get away with it is because of people like Elisha and Katie who don’t want to feel the discomfort that comes with giving victims a voice.

[@RCGWho]

Dress lengths are the least of his problems

[@thesmiths629]

Define for me what "conservative" means to you and your mom, Katie. I can see from how you and her dress that you are not super modest, but I thought homeschooling- large family christians were conservative. Esspecially considering the rules and regulations your parents imposed on your attempts at dating Elisha as a young adult. I guess i dont understand the Ati cult vs your life either. I though you and Elisha grew up in those circles.

[@RCGWho]

I'm trying to comprehend saying Bill Gothard's organization wasn't particularly conservative.

[@sabl6381]

Maybe she is strictly thinking conservative politically, but yeah, Katie's mom's lifestyle (godly wife, mother, homemaker) sounds traditional/wonderfully conservative.

[@carolinasmith2045]

👎

[@laurens8623]

What is ATI please. Not in usa

[@RCGWho]

IBLP was Bill Gothard's organization which stood for Institute of Basic Life Principles.

[@RCGWho]

I found it: Advanced Training Institute (ATI). *** A book about Gothard: A Matter of Basic Principles by Don and Joy Veinot