Rivian Not Cutting It | In Depth

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[@patrickhughes3629]

Buying cars outright to give honest reviews is awesome and takes a strong backbone. Thanks for everything y’all do, means a lot to the community.

[@krs-fq3xq]

Agreed! Plenty of OG past Tesla channels who made their career of Tesla now have jumped on Rivian ‘positive only’ review wagon which is disappointing. Thank you both for providing true reviews !

[@fredbloggs5902]

Grifting requires investment, who knew?

[@Paul_Harling_Vancouver]

By comparing it to a non-existent vehicle like the cyber truck? These guys have such a strong bias towards Tesla it is impossible to miss. No, Rivian doesn't need an exclusive charging network. Funny how these guys had so many problems yet Rivian owners groups are not reporting the same. They are also forgetting how poorly made first year Tesla's were. The reports of glitches were endless.

[@rajeshupadhyay5683]

Well said! I am also here to learn how to invest after listening to a lady on tv talk about the importance of investing and how she made 7 figure in 3 month, somehow the video taught me nothing and left me even more confused, I'm a newbie and I'm open to ideas on how to invest for retirement

[@lezliewhicker8450]

@@rajeshupadhyay5683 lookup Priscilla Dearmin-Turner, this is her name online, she's now the real investment prodigy since the crash and have help me recovered my loses

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

Fun fact: When Volkwagen CEO Herbert Deiss took one of their mod ID3 to Italy he got delayed with broken chargers. Telling the press got him into big troubles!

[@sigma_six]

I respect Herbert Deiss, the more I hear about him... Too bad he is CEO of VW, they don't deserve him

[@stefanfalldorf6573]

His name is Herbert Diess.

[@RCXDerp]

@@stefanfalldorf6573 Dietz nutz

[@faisal181]

@@RCXDerp glad I wasnt the only one thinking that.

[@LoneWolf-wp9dn]

in europe we have ionity which is a network founded by bmw mercedes vw and ford... they have a lot of chargers very thick network... and they are often broken... they have a halo light on each station and everybody dreads seeing it red when they pull in

[@haxi52]

4:00 I'll be honest; First time I watched a few episodes I was put off a bit because it was so "raw" and extreme. But now I understand how much other reviewers were just toning it down to not upset other people. Now this is the first place I go because I know I'll get an honest unfiltered view of what is actually out there. Thanks guys and keep up the good work!

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

Yes, Just compare them with E for Electric. Then you know the difference of who was bought and who has bought.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 *DON'T* say the "E" word!

[@DouglasJMark]

LOL .. E! Alex makes me laugh. I was one of the first Tesla supporters and still will admit how good they are sometimes. Zac and Jesse are the best by far.

[@illlDCllli]

@@polarbearliver That guy has no credibility

[@TecnamTwin]

@@illlDCllli But he’s funny and entertaining so I watch anyway. Ben though lost my support. Same for 2¢ Da Vinci.

[@tvmule]

Valid points: 1) Would like more juice out of outlets for camping (which will reduce battery even more), 2) …nope that’s about it. The rest appears to be whining about non-Rivian issues like alternate charging companies. Also to expect Rivian to match Tesla for their charging network status NOW is just silly for obvious reasons. Set your expectations according to reality, plan better, and you are golden

[@TheRobdiego]

I have a reservation for an R1T, with the MAX BATTERY (400+ mile range), which is supposed to come out in 2023. I did my TEST DRIVE, with my wife, last Tuesday. I felt that the truck was comfy, and well built, but when I drove it, I realized, in about 2 minutes, that my right foot was getting fatigued, cuz the damned accelerator pedal required about 20lbs of foot pressure, just to keep it moving. I know that it should require some level of pressure, due to the 'regenerative braking,' but everyone should experience a Test Drive. My wife got in the driver's seat as well, and she definitely had the same experience. I don't know about the rest of you, who have driven, or owned an R1T, but I am NOT going to buy one, unless they adjust the pedal. I just wanted to throw it out there, so you can be aware of it. A short test drive, may seem exciting, but you have to imagine yourself, driving it for hours!!! I hope this helps.

[@10melvis]

I tried using only non Tesla fast chargers on my Model S for a month to see how the other side lives and if getting a non Tesla is feasible. Stopped after the first week because of the frustration of having to move my car multiple times. Mainly due to the charging station not working properly. Tesla supercharger really spoiled me.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

I tried it in 2020. I could not charge even once. I would have had to turn around and "travel" 40km extra to the last Supercharger. Never again. Now i'm lucky that our Superchargers have partly opened for non-Teslas in Europe. I will need it in 2 weeks when i have to temporarily exchange my Model Y with a Peugeot E-208.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 GOOD LUCK!!

[@DouglasJMark]

My wife and I had a good look at the competition a few months ago. Got a TMY LR on order (will be about 9 months wait like a baby). The Supercharger network is one of the biggest features hands down. The technology is the hands down winner as well..and will only get better and better to boot.

[@jimsteinway695]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 my Ford F-150 gets 800 miles of range and takes 7 minutes to fill up

[@lengould9262]

@@jimsteinway695 And only 2 adults and 1 kid have died of lung disease from the exaust emissions! Yay!

[@jackcoats4146]

You are selling me more on the Model Y I already have. Sorry you had a tense time, but we appreciate your help and understanding.

[@somishows2020]

My brother, who scoffs at my Tesla, followed me through my 16,000+ km road trip to Texas. He was super jealous, and impressed that I did it in an EV where the charging only took 15-20 mins each stop. He said he wants to get an EV, but not a Tesla, and do the same thing. I told him, I would never do this in another EV. I'd prefer to do use a gas car before I use another EV. The supercharger network changes EVERYTHING. I'm so glad Elon gets it.

[@markh3055]

the problem is that's a big negative for the rest of the EV market where the only way that prices can improve is the competition gaining as much reliabilty as Tesla

[@sumyunguy7942]

@@markh3055 with Tesla opening up the charging network to OEMs that part of the problem is solved for the industry

[@getchasome6230]

Elon has been working on his network since the 2000s

[@techmap4191]

I always say...never say never

[@dr.z3426]

@@markh3055 yeah stupid argument you obviously haven't done your home work. Other EVs could utilize the super charger network they have actively decided against this but they already have a sub par product lol

[@efusco]

This reminds me of when I got my first Tesla in 2012... Same issues. Things will improve.

[@mifino]

So what you're saying is that all the other car manufacturers are literally 10 years behind Tesla

[@efusco]

@@mifino they’ll catch up quickly, the path has been cleared.

[@shirobuta_]

@@mifino bruh Rivian is a new company they havent been making cars for 10 years

[@minnguyen4872]

@@tedmoss they learn nothing..they didnt spend a single supercharge network...tell me which company spend there network ..all they focus make car ...all the fee build up a supercharge tesla is not cheap

[@brianross2687]

The charging network will definitely need to approve. Here in CA where no gas cars can be sold after 2035 they better get on it.

[@Caseylawton]

Pro tip on the rooftop tent. Buy a 2" foam mattress topper. The tent should still be able to close and that 2 extra inches goes a long ways

[@JC-cf4rs]

That’s what she said 😂

[@CK-wo1ly]

2 year Tesla owner here. Gotta say: when it comes to the charging network, Tesla is MILES ahead of every other company. Nova charge, Shell Recharge (previously Greenlots) MUCH more regularly have chargers out of order than Tesla. At least 50% of their chargers are out of order in my experience. They're often big and bulky and don't work, whereas Tesla's are smaller, sleak, durable and faster. Tesla doesn't just lead in software. Clearly in EV charging hardware as well.

[@jooptablet1727]

Streets ahead, even!

[@vivekparmar7576]

Great review. I love your honest take on the truck. When I initially started watching this channel, I felt like you both were a little too biased towards a Tesla, but after seeing the competition, I now get it. Keep up the great work guys!

[@jysmtl]

Your first instinct was right.

[@jysmtl]

Your first instinct was right.

[@davidkendall2272]

The Tesla supercharging network is so incredible and under rated. We did a 8000 mile cross country trip in our MS in 2014 and couldn't agree more about how superchargers take the stress out of EV charging and are everything. Tesla is so far ahead.

[@coldnorthAK]

The supercharger network was one of the main reasons I bought a Model Y. Other OEMs are waiting on government to build out a charging network. When was the last time government was quick and effective with anything?

[@farzana6676]

@@coldnorthAK Why ain't private companies ramping up the roll out of charging stations? Isn't there a real business opportunity here?

[@pandatactical4530]

Agree 100%! In the last 18 months I have only come across one Tesla stall that was not operational but there were 7 others there so no problems. That particular stall was also repaired and back operational the following week when I came back to that location.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

@@farzana6676 Isn't it "strange" that just as other manufacturers start ramping production (ish) there are calls for Tesla to "open up the network" after 10+ years of "Tesla who??". During that time, "others" were discussing a unified charging protocol (ISO 15118) which SHOULD include plug and charge, but they still ended up with a dogs breakfast of various cards, readers, accounts and chargers which don't work. . Next step, calls for Tesla to "unify" (despite having the largest reliable network). Go figure.

[@10melvis]

@@farzana6676 other companies are looking from a profit point of view. That's why so many poorly maintained chargers. Tesla is coming from providing a charging service for their customers. The supercharger network is much better maintained and costs lower to charge because of this business model.

[@TheWrxrally]

Just a disclaimer for people seeing this channel for the first time as I am. Both the people in this video are Tesla shareholders. I respect that they have freely admitted this in interviews with other publications, but I think it's important that this type of information be understood when viewing this content. I was curious about this because there did seem to be some "Tesla can do no wrong" vibes in this video which made me a tad suspicious. I want to be clear that I am not claiming that this channel is astroturfing or anything like that. However, I do think there is a clear Tesla bias(as in these guys like Tesla lot). That's OK, but I just thought it should be called out.

[@the_OCD_Garage]

This should be on every one of their video. They make money by bashing everybody else’s EV

[@eedre4864]

They need to get away from cramming every single piece of luxurious technology into these EV’s. Focus on the things that matter, not a $7,000 camp kitchen. Get the charging right, fix software bugs, get the price down. Solve the basic need of transportation first, then add luxury options that are actually optional so EV’s become more affordable but retain the same basic transportation capabilities.

[@danielboyd7810]

To be fair Rivian decided to make an upmarket product intentionally. The more utility focused EV would be the Ford Lightning

[@jeffreypeiffer]

People don't buy thinking EV charging will suck. They buy thinking EV charging is a solved problem, so they focus on features. For Tesla's, EV charging is a solved problem and you can focus on features. For everything else, you have manufacturers asking, "why won't anyone build a high quality charging setup for me???"

[@eedre4864]

@@jeffreypeiffer do people really think charging is solved? I think that’s one of the first three things people look at when considering converting from ICE. The others being range and price.

[@jeffreypeiffer]

@@eedre4864 I think what you asked missed a key point I was trying to make. I don't think the public at large think charging is a solved problem. I think people who buy EVs do though, and it's only later they find out it's really only solved for one company's cars.

[@eedre4864]

@@jeffreypeiffer that is probably true based on how the public behaves. I know I continue to be educated about EV life and yet do not have one yet. I'm sure a lot of people out there have bought into the Kia/Hyundai marketing of the 20 minute charge without thinking about the charging infrastructure needed to make that capability work.

[@jamesrick2532]

I so understand this! I once had a BMW i3 and charging it on a trip was so frustrating. And that’s really why I bought a Tesla because I knew the charging stations were out there and they worked!

[@gregdarden726]

i loved my i3 but also ultimately went with a Tesla for this reason as well.

[@LightSpirit24]

I totally agree, charging is probably the most important thing to consider when owning an EV.

[@clivemarriott7749]

You could have a cheap ev with a smallish battery and if the charging network was really good then it would be fine, it would work. But having an expensive ev but a terrible charging experience really does not work. For some reason other manufactures can not work it out. You need care and attention to detail to make the whole charging experience smooth and intuitive. If they cared about ev's and the customer they would.

[@dstephan34]

As much as I want a R1T or Lightning, or ID Buzz when it comes out, I just can't see myself trading in the Model 3 yet because of the charging network. Maybe in a few years other networks will figure themselves out.

[@richardhobbs7107]

I bought a used Leaf 5 years ago for $9K. Have only had to add washer fluid to it. Am retired, so my driving is often . . . . but always local. Charge it from my backyard panels feeding a power station which I then charge the Leaf. In my case the EV has been only a 'positive' . . . . . . heh - heh ! !

[@OlJackBurton]

Fast and available DC charging are "rich people problems", although right now it seems only rich people can afford these EVs that the manufacturers are losing money making and dealers (if legacy EVs) are still charging something like $10k-$20k over MSRP for. How many people (the working class) really have the time and means to go camping whenever they feel like it, when they're living paycheck to paycheck and/or have various responsibilities to others or whatever, and their life isn't just their own anymore? Vacations? More like staycations. Maybe i'm weird, but i haven't gone camping since i was a teen/Boy Scout. And back then i didn't even consider the possibility of using electricity while camping. Propane, wood or charcoal, sure. I thought that was what camping was about. Roughing it. But entitled/privileged campers might feel a different way about it. Even in an ICE vehicle, i haven't used an entire tank or "charge" (400 miles or 7 straight hours of driving) in a single day in years (attended a funeral several states away). But that hypothetical situation once every 5-10 years or so is supposed to be why i buy a particular vehicle? That's like saying that off-roading or towing is the most important thing to consider for the average crossover owner. It's nice to have it, but i'm almost never going to use it. Basically, if i know i need some more range than usual (150-250 miles for going out of town or several towns away, or taking the highway/freeway), i would top up before the "trip". But the lack of non-Tesla chargers in the boonies isn't even a consideration in buying a car/EV for me. Many people just don't live in that reality. Price, comfort, reliability, quality, safety, utility and features (that have to do with actual driving/commuting and not adventuring or lifestyle) are much more important, and an EV needs to get these core things right to work for me. Basically is it a good car for the money, and the same thing that i would consider if buying an ICE...

[@TraceWindham]

I've been a software engineer for a long time now. Software is hard to do. IMHO Tesla is in a class by itself when it comes to their software skill set. I hope all these companies getting into the EV business realize how hard software is, but I'm afraid they don't. I'm pretty sure legacy auto makers are in for a steep learning curve when it comes to getting the software right.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Case in point, VW Or is that Porsche/ Audi vs VW? Or VW group?

[@clinton8432]

This is it. I am not a software engineer but when it came to deciding on the rivian or the cyber truck, my gut said it would be unreasonable for me to expect rivian would have software on par with Tesla. Not saying I am correct but it was how I made my decision

[@faisal181]

@@clinton8432 why would u think Rivian would have software on par with Tesla? Much of what they have done was super quick, whereas Tesla at least had many iterations.

[@paulstubbs7678]

The problem, software wise, with legacy auto, is they basically outsourced anything not power train or body, so have near zero software abilities

[@TraceWindham]

@@paulstubbs7678 exactly!

[@ReDiiKuLuS]

I deeply respect your guys' work and your honesty in your reviews. I can honestly say from what I have seen there is no one else out there doing what you guys do. Please continue to be honest and not sway your viewers just because you got a free press model to review. Companies should allow these reviewers to be honest in their reviews and use that criticism to make needed changes. Unfortunately, every company seems to falsely think their product is the best and is without flaws which everyone knows isn't true. Keep up the good work guys!

[@JamesKirk1988]

15 months into Tesla ownership, and have taken 6+ road trips that involved supercharging, and never once had an issue with a charger **knocks on wood**. The most "disappointing" experience was a busy charger where I had to share with neighbors for only 72kW. The "best" experience was arriving at my lowest SOC ever of 4% b/c the further charger costs $.05/kwh less, and I'd charge and get home quicker. 250kW brought my car from 5% to 45% in the time it took me and my son to pee and buy a candy bar at Wawa's. I can do this because I trust the network that when I arrive, it'll work. I could never bring myself to run any other EV down that low on a roadtrip. I'd be pulling at EVgo and EA with like 20-35%. Just in case... Please, fix this. We want Tesla to have competition. It's best for everyone!

[@irishsausage6]

Every time I begin thinking about EVs outside of Tesla I instantly stop the second charging on a trip enters my mind. Too bad Teslas cost even more today! I most likely would not own one today if I hadn't bought it in 2019, when they cost less and still qualified for 50% of the tax credit. Really feeling defeated about our goal to get a Model Y in a couple of years...

[@suvari225]

Don’t worry, EA is not that bad as they show. Yes, old EA units are problematic and they are swapping those. But CCS network will be get better.

[@LabriaHart]

@@suvari225 this video was made this year..why are you saying it like they're talking about it from years ago. Even if they're swapping them out there's also the lack of abundance. "It's not that bad" my ass. You probably charge at home 90% of the time.

[@suvari225]

@@LabriaHart I am just saying that new EA chargers are not problematic as shown. Even in the video, they stated that they didnt have that problem in different EA location (which has the new chargers) And you guest it wrong professor, I am charging my car to 60% usually, and I can get advantage of my free EA charging time to time (thanks to ID4 promo). You can spend 70-80k $ for a Model Y to use supercharger network, if you scare this much. CCS cars are more affordable, and there is a network to charge them. Why scare off people to make them purchase ICE cars? Teslas are expensive. Competition is a good thing for costumers.

[@santadam]

A good reminder of why we keep coming back for your shows. Thanks and keep up the great work!

[@whiteknives]

No surprise the charging network is Rivian's biggest weakness. Why get an adventure vehicle if you can't go on adventures?

[@tobias..6688]

Not having a charging network is THE adventure 🤣

[@okcleaners]

@@tobias..6688 As a driver of the active E tester...yea it was an adventure to not know if you'd come back 😅

[@michaelsmithers4900]

Even a lvl 2 at the destinations would be nice… bc you usually stay at a destination more than a few hours. It would also eliminate the “out and back” effect” where you need enough power to go to your destination and back to a EA charger. Halving your range effectively

[@user-oo3uj5ku9r]

I live right over the border in RI, you guys hit the nail on the head here. I was able to score an Ioniq 5 for MSRP, selling it to Carvana for a profit, and my Tesla is due in a few weeks, screw EA. ALL of there chargers were down at their location at the Wal-Mart in Rhode Island, its unreal.

[@TheAcademik]

Firstly, I'm super jealous that you were able to score the Ioniq5 at MSRP. My wife and I were in need of a new car and we wanted to go EV and that was what we wanted. Secondly, with these two super anecdotal points, I've come to the super solid conclusion that the EA network on the east coast sucks. We ended up getting a Polestar 2 (which we've enjoyed so far, some minor complaints, but by -in-large good so far.) We got 2 years of EA charging and we've not had any issues at a single station so far. We live in the Bay Area of California and I've gone to 6 different stations and I've yet to have had a bad experience.

[@juliesprague263]

Shortly after getting our Rivian, we fully charged it at the Supercharger at the Mall of NH, then drove up Mt Washington, back down, and had a 20% charge when we got home. Interestingly the 7.5 mile auto road up the mountain took 44 miles off the range but regenerated 22 miles going back down. Before heading out, we checked and both there and the Glenn House have level two chargers. We didn't need either, but an option if someone wanted to charge.

[@Anthony1337]

This is one of your guys’ best videos as of late! Great work to the whole crew at NYK!! 😄

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Or even "NYK"? 😉

[@giantarcsfora9279]

years ago when I used to driver uber with my Tesla and my passengers were comparing electric cars and talking about upcoming electric cars then I told them that Tesla is best because of their super charging network

[@busomite]

Sounds like the only negative is not the Rivian but the state of charging outside of the Tesla network. So not so much Rivian not cutting it as non-Tesla charging network not cutting it.

[@jkerr45]

We have a 2015 Leaf for around town - driving to work, dropping the kids off at school, groceries, etc... works great. Have a Model Y for distance travel... super charging is awesome. Now just waiting for my Cybertruck for adventures.

[@chrisheath2637]

Thanks for going through the "pain" so others don't have to (or are prepared for it.) Tesla, yet again, foresaw that charging is necessary, and to speed adoption, it has to be seamless. NO-ONE else f***ing gets it !

[@sumyunguy7942]

They all get it but don’t want to make the effort and invest the $$$

[@TecnamTwin]

Ford’s Mustang Mach-E is seamless on the Electrify America Network.

[@djpak1]

Thank you guys for keeping it real!!

[@TamLe-ij1db]

Thank you guys for keeping it honest!

[@ccross1]

The first Tesla was delivered in 2008 if I’m not mistaken, and I think the supercharger network didn’t launch until 2012. Let’s not pretend Tesla had this all figured out at this point in the company’s maturity. Rivian has delivered maybe 5000 trucks. If you’re lucky enough to have one this early, you should probably expect that it’s going to take some time for it to become a more well-rounded experience. I appreciate the honest review but it doesn’t change my mind about the R1T. Superchargers will eventually be open to Rivian owners and the infrastructure for other chargers will improve. The future is bright!

[@keithv3767]

Great review. I would say why would you buy a Bolt is a different question. If I’m always charging at home the Bolt makes a lot of sense because it is affordable. Withe the new pricing, you can get one for 20k less than the least expensive model 3.

[@alexaleman16]

My pops bought a bolt and a tesla the bolt broke down and deallership fixed it but the thing broke again that thing is junk, tesla is so much better overall gonna be a long time till the bolt is any good by then probably gets beat by cybertruck and robovan, dont recommend at all!

[@atodaso1668]

@@alexaleman16 Do you find it hard to breathe gargling Elon's nuts so hard?

[@marsgizmo]

you guys have the best, most honest reviews ever! 👏😎

[@jimbolove5669]

agreed, i like how they did not sacrifice honesty for the possibility of getting free e cars, vary respectable and commendable indeed.

[@michaelwest217]

There review is honest yet I felt like it lacked context. For example was the Nav system fault unusual for high tech cars? I’d argue no, I have a model Y that has had complete screen freezes while driving which requires stopping and rebooting. Does that mean the model Y does not cut it? I personally still love it. Another example is the charging issues they found. The context in this case is are there other non Tesla’s that work better? It’s currently obvious Tesla is light years ahead on this but not everyone wants a Tesla so how does the Rivian stack up in the non Tesla universe.

[@davidcristofaro6287]

Nailed it; this was an R1T hatchet job. They discontinued their camp kitchen some time ago, and it isn’t for sale anymore. If you run into a nav problem, use your phone. That is what anyone would do. If you want an experience that doesn’t include early adopter challenges, best to stick with Tesla or an ICE vehicle.

[@aerotecvideo1270]

you guys are at the forefront of this EV revolution,.. it's entirely fitting that you are experiencing all the growing pains. Way to go,.. Thank you for sharing your story !

[@farmerfarmerer3847]

Absolutely! They’re pioneers.

[@DouglasJMark]

And they're doing it the right way by saying it like they see it and not just to get more viewers. Big kudos to you Zac and Jesse!

[@MrGsWorkshop]

Great review showing the reality of charging without a Tesla. I rented a Nissan Leaf to drive to Rhode Island from New York. I had to sleep at Chargers. It was crazy.

[@riviansteve]

Thank you for the honest feedback. I am getting my rivian tomorrow and first time EV owner so this was hugely helpful to me.

[@riviansteve]

I was also looking at doing a cape cod trip, and going to do a lot more research before heading out there.

[@felixxr6turbo]

Out of interest, does this completely change when/if Tesla opens their network to everyone as they say they're doing/planning?

[@felixxr6turbo]

@@tedmoss As in the their review is the vehicle is great apart from the Rivian charging network. So if the rollout (currently in Europe but Musk has hinted at CCS connectors getting added to the US market) continues and the Tesla charging network gets opened to all (inc Rivian), then the lack of a network, NYK's main beef, evaporates.

[@LWCA86]

the only thing going for teslas is its network, open that up to anyone and soon tesla will only be a network, their cars are meh

[@Dylanbforthree]

Tesla isn't going to open their supercharger network until they're forced to by legislation.

[@felixxr6turbo]

@@Dylanbforthree In the US? Netherlands, France, Norway, Germany, and Belgium it's already done. The US is harder I guess with the connector issue.

[@Dylanbforthree]

@@felixxr6turbo In those countries it was to get ahead of EU legislation, a smart move. In the US, where nobody is making regulatory legislation, it's their biggest market advantage.

[@georgesackinger2002]

I get the frustration. I have owned a CCS Hyundai Kona EV. We found the same thing with Electrify America (now own a Mod y). The issues you have had with the charging of the Rivian is really sad. It seems like everyone who tries to use the EA CCS charging network has problems. I don't think it is just Rivian. The Kona had charging trouble too. The new infrastructure bill has a lot of potential for adding new EV charging stations. We need to encourage the states implementing this to not put in charging solutions that limit the charging to 50kwh. Specifically CHAdeMO and J1772. Although good for some around town charging, they are not going to make it on highway trips. IE Nissan Leaf still has trouble overheating the battery because it is air cooled. When it does it stops until it cools down. I'm not sure why there is so much trouble with the CCS unless it is things like billing which I know it has trouble with. Sketchy cell phone coverage could disable authentication and cause issues. I would love to see some statistics from EA helping us understand what is making these so troublesome.

[@milesbrown2]

If Elons concerns about Rivian and Lucid pan out, I’d be thinking about flipping it sooner than later. But we appreciate the effort you and your team are putting in.

[@blennblarkley2289]

Od

[@CyberScott86]

I can’t believe you guys don’t have 1 million subs absolutely insane

[@dwcheshire]

I don't know how much more it costs but if you you get a campsite with power and water you can run and charge all your toys and your truck with 220v. I know ti's not as primative but it would eliminate part of your problem. All first of run vehicles have problems. I hope that the Cybertruck will be all it is touted to be but no one has seen one in the wild, it's getting to the point where I am wondering if we will ever see one.

[@metsfaninct]

I went on a road trip from CT to NC since we didn’t want to risk flights being canceled. I was surprised how well it worked and my wife asked why we haven’t tried it in the 4 years we owned it. It worked so well that my wife made me order her a Y. She kept repeating how it takes the thinking out of rest breaks when doing road trips. So we will have two Tesla’s in the house.

[@pandatactical4530]

You should not underestimate the advantage Tesla has with their Supercharging network which continues to grow.

[@ericchild3363]

I think you have said the opposite of what you intended. I hope you meant OVER estimate? Or meant to say "You SHOULD not"?

[@pandatactical4530]

@@ericchild3363 Yes you are correct!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

WOW! A civil critique, a correction AND acknowledgement by the OP!!!! This CAN'T be right?? 😉👍

[@ericchild3363]

@@pandatactical4530 Thank you for tolerating my pedantry

[@collegepros]

Great review. I agree, that if you are making an ‘adventure’ vehicle, you’d better have a good charging network available where people want to adventure!

[@michaelwest217]

Hopefully they’ll get there because if they don’t then all non Tesla EV’s are in big trouble which would be bad for EV adoption. I have a model Y I use for road trips and I’m getting the Rivian as a gardening Truck and a vehicle to drive to our mountain house which is only 100 miles so it’s perfect for what I need. It will allow us to take the back roads in the summer to get to a nearby fun city cutting the distance in half from driving all the way around the mountain. I’ll probably never need to super charge it, lol.

[@ApplNation21]

This has been the most considerable hesitation of mine about the EVs. I own a Tesla Model 3, and I only tell people to get a tesla because these other companies haven't built a reliable charging network. I want to get a Rivian but didn't pull the trigger because of my fear of the charging network, and this review hammer it home that I'm going to stick with tesla until the others can reliably get their shit together. I have a cyber truck preorder; I hope tesla stays within the ballpark of 70-80k

[@NicholasOrr]

reading about the charging tech - can see how Tesla went about it from a software-as-a-service point of view and made the hardware fit that, vs the other "standards" where hardware people came up with hardware solutions that doesn't match the software that needs to enable the whole end-to-end experience... This whole "not built here" approach and "protecting IP" is not great for the industry, adopt best of breed and get on with it, market is HUGE a slice of HUGE is still BIG. there are not bespoke Diesel or Petrol brands that only work with some vehicles and not others...

[@JetFire9]

Cybertruck is going to cost way more. My Model 3 has gone up $20k in 2 years. How will they ever keep the same price on the truck from 3 years ago. A lot of sad people coming. If Tesla honors those prices for all those reservations, they will go bankrupt before they fill all the orders.

[@T1Oracle]

I hate to break it to you but the Cyber Truck isn't happening. The Model S X 3 and Y was the idea of founders Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning. Elon has no idea what he's doing with the CT. He almost ruined the X with falcon wing doors and was barely kept from doing that again to the 3 and Y. The CT is all Elon and that's a bad thing. If you want an EV truck it's either Rivian or Ford.

[@structuralengineering3406]

I also want Tesla but my boss model y 40% battery drain after 2 days away hiking for a 2 year old car. I didn't pull the trigger lol.

[@JetFire9]

@@structuralengineering3406 You dummy. The battery drain is because he left the Sentry Mode cameras running. That means the car never sleeps. Turn that off and it might go down 1% over that same time. Why are people so stupid? Honest question.

[@The1stLumiens]

Just another reason why I love my Chevy Volt. Electric car for 90% for my driving needs and gas for the other 10%. PHEVs are awesome. I'd buy a Tesla in a heartbeat though.

[@gmsteele44]

Until the charging stations are more available and reliable, I’ll make do with my Ford Fusion Energi. I only burn gas if I leave town.

[@normie2716]

EVs aren't saving the world, bro.

[@RedWingsninetyone]

I love the honesty, but there are a few things that need to be addressed with it: Electrify America has been known to have issues. Rivian has recently opened their first Adventure Network fast charger which is designed to address the most common reasons for failure which are seen in the EA chargers. It's also hard to know if the lower charging rate you received was because of EA or the charging curve for Rivian. You had quite a bit of battery when you plugged in so it may have been slightly lower. No, "typical" truck beds are not 8' long. Maybe in 1972, but these days, most full size trucks have 5.5' and 6.5' beds. Mid size trucks (closer to the Rivian) typically have 5 or 6 foot beds. My Tacoma has a 5' bed and a roof top tent mounted very similarly to yours. It can be a bit of a pain to get things out, but it is much easier when you learn what little things you can do to make it easier, such as storage bins which are much easier to grab. As for electric power, most trucks don't have the capabilities that the F150 has. My Tacoma has a power inverter but cannot run any of those stores or other heating items you used, even when the truck is running. So you can't be surprised when it took that much range to run all of that. If you're concerned, try using propane. That's not the point, and I understand that, but it's still an option. I have no explanation for the computer issues other than growing pains, which are definitely frustrating. No question Tesla has a great network for charging. However, they've had a lot more time to build it while the other networks are all third party. You also point out, "Rivian said they'd make the charging network, where is it?" Tesla has had numerous delays in their development. Things take time.

[@Gabriel.A.L.]

I agree. Its a whiny video about the charging network and not much about rivian

[@MacroEnabled]

My 2010 Ford Ranger regular cab short bed (basically a micro truck) has a 6" bed. I can't imagine a truck having a shorter bed. What is the point? I can fit 5" long stuff in the back of a CUV...

[@MacroEnabled]

Regarding comparison against the F150 Lightning, I think it's a fair comparison. ICE trucks aren't relevant for discussion here, that would be apples to oranges. Once we start seeing more electric trucks, people are going to start expecting external AC power as a standard feature

[@MacroEnabled]

"Things take time" So what you're saying is... don't buy an EV yet?

[@RedWingsninetyone]

@@MacroEnabled I used to think that. My Canyon had a 6' bed. I went to a Tacoma with a 5' bed. It has not been anywhere near the issue I thought it would be.

[@mattshack6183]

Dear Now You Know, Everyone appreciates your honesty. I agree that most "KZbin Influencers" are not willing to give 100% of their opinion because of reprisals and backlash. Especially of the big names like Apple, Intel, Nvidia, and now Rivian. Kudos for the comments. However, maybe a better video premise "Buy a Rivian R1T for a high performance small pickup capability, but not for a long range offroad adventure". Your video was more a critique of the state of Electrify American's charging network and why Rivian is not Tesla. I think your overall point is that everyone should expect software updates to fix Rivian GUI-Infotainment and charge reliability across the Electrify American network, but don't expect a better network itself in the near-term. It seems you would recommend Rivian stop using the word "Adventure" in their marketing. If so, would there have been a "perceived" reason to make this video? I'd rather you present an unbiased "Tesla vs Rivian" and/or "Electrify America vs Tesla" and not a pro-Tesla bologna sandwich. You know because bologna is nothing but pieces and parts of "stuff". We all should take note that software updates these days are not foreign concepts because every EV is a big computer and everything from watches, cellphones, refrigerators, and microwaves are designed to take software updates. Unfortunately, there is a corporate mindset of pushing hardware first and letting the software catch up later. They all do it: Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Samsung, Facebook, Chevy, Ford, and the list goes on -- Your user experience kind of goes with the territory of early adapters syndrome. Yes, even early Tesla owners also encountered the same syndrome. Probably unrealistic to assume Rivian would be 100% same quality and same charging network when Tesla has had a 10+ year lead. I'm sure Tesla also has a history of software bugs that were eventually fixed/solved that improved user experience. Maybe we should assume Rivian needs anywhere from 100% to 25% of the same time as Tesla between their first vehicle released to the public and now. I wonder what feedback you would have received if able to use the "way-back" machine to interview first year Tesla Roadster owners? Everyone considering an EV, not just the R1T, should note the following points: 1. Every EV is a giant computer. Maybe a good practice is to perform system updates/restarts before leaving home on long road trips. Also load phone apps with access to charging network as a backup navigation method. I know you are saying, "My R1T cost me $80K, why should I have to do this?" Well, if you have time to make a 40min video rant for your KZbin viewers - more power to you. 2. Understand charging rate is an agreement between the EV's BMS and the charging station. The final amp charging rate is a decision made by the charge point, not the EV. Problems could definitely be fault of the EV's software, but note #1 above before starting a long road/camping/adventure trip. Also, on long trips, every EV owner should understand Level's/Tiers of charging and route plan accordingly. 3. Unless using Tesla's charging network, take time to study your EV's recommended charge stops. If you have a copilot, have them Google well ahead of the intended stop to determine quality/status before you arrive. Remember the quality of the charging network = Lots-O-Cash + Lots-O-Time. Rivian Network still needs Time. Definitely agree, until Tesla starts allowing non-Telsa's (obviously for a much higher surcharge) to use their network, Rivian needs to communicate and plan better. Hmmm. Oh, you didn't know, in the EU, Tesla ,as a test, started allowing non-Tesla's to use their charge points? Soooooo, the possibility exists that this too could happen in the US. Though, even if allowed/approved, expect high surcharges or higher charging rates as well as lockouts as Tesla's are given priority by location or time of use. 4. Agree Rivian should have provided a higher Amp device usage capacity for owners. However, the R1T/R1S does have a higher amp charging system which (actually) charges faster than the F150 Lighting. I wish Rivian would have also considered an "off shore" vehicle to house/camp site AC-DC sourcing system. 5. The overall point of this video for the average or occasionally inspired adventure seeker who also happens to own an EV: When you have an EV that is not a Tesla, charging away from home IS Always a MAJOR Decision Factor on any trip where you are not returning home in a reasonable amount of time to recharge.

[@mk500]

This is a GREAT test! Exactly how I would want to use a R1T if I had one. Seems like it’s not quite ready yet. Hope they survive long enough to resolve these issues; because I respect the amount of work it took to build and sell these trucks.

[@danielungureanu3621]

Everyone wants great quality, cheap EVs , fast free charging and definitely these two guys are paid by Tesla

[@RayNLA]

@@danielungureanu3621 Tesla doesn’t need to pay anyone!

[@simoc24]

Well said. I love to get a R1T as well. But they are not ready for prime time. So thankful they are out before the Cybertruck and have the time work out these newbie’s issue. If they were out at the same time as Tesla, they would be dead on arrival. Now they have a chance to survive

[@danielungureanu3621]

@@simoc24 I can’t wait to see the CT coming out probably 2027 with it’s rubber seals coming off and big gaps and miss match panels just like the rest of the Tesla models…wait ..at $45k Musk promised you LOL

[@wallykramer7566]

Great review! One thing which still twizzles my rifter: "110 volt / 220 volt" a/c voltage was the standard up to the 1960s. But not since then. Nominal in the 1970s was 115 / 230 or 117 / 234. Since then, you can refer to these as 120 / 240 volt systems.

[@christianvanderstap6257]

Could be that it is people being stuck in the old way of naming things. Many people still say 220v here in NL while it is 230.

[@eedre4864]

8’ beds are very uncommon. Most people don’t even buy the 6-1/2’ bed anymore with the cab and a half. Most people are buying a 1/4 ton truck with the full cab, four full size doors, and a 5-1/2’ bed. It’s still a lot bigger than the fun little bed Rivian is putting on this truck. Just a small correction about the claim that a standard truck bed is 8’.

[@bobjake4381]

Your transparency and product honesty gained you another sub ;) thank you! Great vid

[@dmajorx]

Similar experiences we had on a road trip with the Mach E. The charging infrastructure for America is just not there outside of Tesla. We have to fix this problem now before it gets worse.

[@timchow924]

Tesla is opening up their network to others. They’re starting to mass produce chargers now too

[@MatthewBournival]

I feel you guys on the software-related issues and I'm a bit nervous to make the journey from FL up to NH this summer after watching this, but so far I have not had any issues with the EA chargers here in FL and GA. I do hope that Rivian can start to shift their focus from production capacity to network capacity sooner rather than later. Tesla is also working on unlocking their superchargers so that other EVs can charge at them and hopefully that experience will be just as smooth as owning a Tesla, but we'll see. Thanks for the video from one Rivian owner to another!

[@michaelsully13]

In Minnesota it only has 1 DC fast charger for non-Tesla cars. Dozens of Tesla chargers across the state. Almost 20 Tesla super chargers in the state.

[@christiangriffin7397]

Guys. Let's be fair. You are blaming Rivian for a charging network that they do not own. In addition, Rivian has been around for a year. This is the equivalent of someone attacking Tesla in 2013 for the Chargepoint network and then asking why Tesla hasn't yet built out all of their Supercharger network. I remember how many Superchargers existed in my state one year after they rolled out Model S. Zero. And to make a point the Rivian costs more to make than they are selling them for is EXACTLY what Tesla did for YEARS. You aren't being fair. If you are blaming Rivian for Electrify America and not building out their network, then it applies to everyone else. And for the record, I have been a superfan of Tesla since 2013. Just so you know, you have effectively given ammunition to EV haters to believe charging networks are useless.

[@Jesse615]

28:00 Yes! I do live in NY, and yes, nearby escapes are the Hudson Valley, Cap Cod, Vermont, NH, Maine, etc.

[@travwill]

Ah, it was pretty rough owning a Tesla for quite a while, until the last few years in areas of Texas, hard to drive from IL to TX (Arkansas/Missouri/others between states) had barely any superchargers. The CCS network should explode past the SC network in no time with all the models coming out - patience. Know what you were buying into.

[@coredumperror]

> The CCS network should explode past the SC network in no time with all the models coming out How does that make any sense? "Models coming out" are from car-makers, but no car-makers except Tesla make their own fast-chargers, so there's little to no connection between the number of CSS cars on the road and the number of CSS charging stations. Then there's also the fact that while there may be a dozen new models of EV coming out in the next few years, what actually matters is how many *total cars* get sold. And only Tesla and VW are making EVs in massive numbers right now (though Hyundai and Kia are at least *starting* to catch up).

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

@@coredumperror >> ""Models coming out" are from car-makers, but no car-makers except Tesla make their own fast-chargers" This is not quite accurate: Electrify America is a subsidiary of Volkswagen. So by extension it's VW who's mainly building out the EA network. And Ford, GM, Rivian, etc have all entered into partnerships with EA or EVgo to help fund and expand the CCS network. So far the EA network by itself, not counting other brands of CCS chargers, has been growing at about twice the pace that Tesla built out their SC network. Part of the reason for the growing pains shown in this video is they are probably building out stations too many too quickly leading to shortages of parts and personnel to maintain the existing stations.

[@MichaelPomposello]

What an outstanding honest review. Thanks so much guys

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

Electrify America doesn't care, seriously, I've had too many bad experiences with the spark...

[@katahn]

Hopefully with their parent company (VW) getting so heavily into making their own EVs they'll push EA to get their act together.

[@justinfowler2857]

They don't care because it was punishment for dieselgate.

[@katahn]

@@justinfowler2857 that’s just it: they didn’t care before because it didn’t matter to them. But VW is allegedly going totally electric and that might change things for their priorities on charging infrastructure. Time will tell but right now it doesn’t look fantastic, I’ll agree on that.

[@hansschweikert9153]

Love your format and depth. Bumped into this channel by accident but now I’m a subscriber. Keep up the good work!

[@victor9]

25:14 lmao 🤣 dude I can feel the tears and absolute suffering behind that statement 😭

[@allencrider]

It really would be a good idea to flip the Rivian right now while the market is so hot.

[@davidkendall2272]

Zac and Jessie, love your honesty and factual experiences which are not sugar coated. Keep up the excellent work!

[@techmap4191]

Oh come on. Are you kidding me? You don't think these two have a bit of Tesla dust sprinkled all over them? Come on. I love telsa , have one myself and really can't argue with them about the experience. I honestly think we have been spoiled by Tesla. They have set the tone. But we have to give these other OEMs time to adjust. I think we do need to focus more on a universal charging system rather than proprietary locations. When other manufactures start building their eletric cars it would get crazy if we had separate charges for each car. I want one universal system with tens of thousands of charging plugs so that everyone can access.

[@davidkendall2272]

@@techmap4191 Nope, I think they are trying to give an honest appraisal of their experience and without a proper charging infrastructure that is reliable and works like Tesla superchargers Rivian will continue to have a problem as will other non-Tesla EVs without the charging infrastructure. Too many non-Tesla chargers do not work properly and make trips much more stressful.

[@techmap4191]

@@davidkendall2272 I agree with the charging problem. Other OEMs need to get really serious about that issue. If they don't they will die no question. Lets see what happens in the next few years. We gave Tesla a chance and it wasn't all peaches and cream in the beginning. They had growing pains too, still do.

[@electrifiedmotors]

Good review, Rivian has been on the road for less than a year. First year of Tesla Superchargers or non existing chargers it wasn't that much fun back in 2013. In regards to cars and their faults. My Model X would constantly reset and both screen would go black due to mcu issue. Tesla for 8 months would straight up deny there was a problem. Until I paid $2500 for the mcu upgrade. There are no perfect cars, next time I would recommend using plugs are with chargers review and choose locations with good reviews 👍🏼 Oh did I mention your Tesla never gives you accurate range Rivian does so there are definitely good parts and bad parts for all cars. I switched my Model X for the Rivian and absolutely love it! Utility is real

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"The first year of Tesla Superchargers" nobody knew any better. Now, manufacturers have a (supposedly) "up and running network" to configure with and test on way before production and that network has been around long enough to sort out problems. .(Bjørn would disagree regarding the range, normally on the money)

[@electrifiedmotors]

@@rogerstarkey5390 agree they should have charging figured out by now. Watch my video going to Atlanta from NY. Started with full battery at 230 miles in my Model X 75D drove 170miles had 1% left in the winter. Normal speed and all. I cover it all, Tesla does not give you accurate range if you drive normally what your range shows i will give you a medal 😎

[@LabriaHart]

Sorry but just because your model x had issues doesn't mean that was the average tesla. They had to reset the screen and took so long for it to come back on. The maps wasn't working. If you had a newer Tesla, you probably wouldn't even be commenting. To say Rivian range is 100% accurate when real world driving comes into play is bs. The sad reality of EA charging and knowing I have to travel to see family in Delaware coming from Georgia I would never choose anything other than Tesla.

[@electrifiedmotors]

@@LabriaHart charging network is absolutely best with Tesla. However with the sheer amount of cars they are selling you might have superchargers full on long weekends very soon. I still have the original 2013 Model S, very few problems with this one close to perfect in my view. Model X was riddled with issues, New 3's and y's had some weird problems. I think its actually the opposite newer Teslas have worse quality control than old. I'm not sure how easy it will be to do the road trip in the Rivian I'm heading to Atlanta end of June from NY. I will have a video going live after I'm done. What I meant about the range being accurate on the Rivian is in the real world I'm getting estimated usage per computer estimate meaning after driving 70 miles I used 68 miles of that range. On my late 2016 model X FSD I would drive 70 miles but use more like 80 or worse. It was never and I mean never accurate. I challenge you to fully charge your Tesla and try to drive 95% of that range. Better yet turn ideal range prediction on the computer 😉 Just to highlight I still like Teslas, however not the company tho. I truly hope you never have to deal with issues related to software in your Tesla.

[@Joeblk10]

@@LabriaHart my 21 model 3 performance isn't even close to accurate either.

[@samkeino6810]

What a video. I have watched about a dozen R1T and R1S reviews and this is the first authentic review. All others were not cars purchased by reviewers or put through a proper review of functionality,

[@solidsn8k3]

Idk how you can compare the R1T to the Cybertruck when it hasn't even released. I applaud Rivian for being the trailblazers in the EV truck space.

[@mikerat409]

What could you have done with that Jackery 1000 with solar to save miles on the Rivian pack to have enough miles to get home? Maybe charge the ebikes or run the laptops on Jackery?

[@johnnyforeigner11]

Exactly the same problems encountered in the UK with my Jaguar I-Pace. I have now had a Tesla Model 3 for one year and have not had a problem with the Supercharger network. My next car will be another Tesla.

[@casperhansen826]

After watching this review I ordered a Tesla, nah, actually I already had ordered one, but thanks for clarifying that a good charging network is worth much more

[@Rando46]

Guys, not sure if you can….but just put 6,000 miles on my Tesla Model Y across country & stayed in several campgrounds. Key is either 30/50 amp electric hookup & appropriate connector for level 2 charging. Tesla would charge fine on either one over night. Also had Ecoflow solar battery as backup for those times only needed a small amount of juice. Iceco makes real good quality ac or dc refrigerators also. Toured the country with Iceco plugged in to the Dc outlet on model y or Ecoflow & the whole system worked great. Sleeping in the Tesla with camp mode was also great.

[@breezewood64able]

Hearing the "POP!!!" from the air mattress at 14:52 was soooooo funny!!! I've had the same experience over the years and have yet to find a mattress that can hold air successfully for two nights straight. When making temporary stays at friends and family's homes, it is a good alternative, though. Great video--thanks for the insight into the EV world.

[@ronjos]

Great review. Charging is EVERYTHING. I am of the opinion that Tesla should NOT open up its charging network to others, especially when the government is putting its hand on the scale to try and tip the balance in favor of the unions at legacy auto.

[@danam2584]

I totally agree with you!!

[@lokchan9399]

And they shouldn't. In my opinion, this is the ONLY thing holding many of us back from getting anything else beside a Tesla. I personally like the Rivian R1S over any model Tesla has to offer (including the cybertruck), but due to the charging network, I still have to stay with Tesla.

[@alexd302]

Shows how really huge an advantage Tesla has with its Supercharger network.

[@brakesforsnakes757]

It's their only advantage.

[@offwhitemke]

Instead of using the truck for power, how about using one of the power station products which are becoming common now. Some even have solar charging so try would be great for charging while you are out biking. Recharging with solar would let you stay more days at the campsite.

[@fobusas]

You will waste more energy towing huge solar panel than simply charging it whenever. Have you done the calculations? Other folks have, and it's abysmal.

[@chris55top]

@@fobusas You wouldn't need to tow a huge solar panel. They have small folding portable panels 100-200 watts. You wouldn't be able to charge your vehicle but you would be able to charge your bikes, power your kitchen, and pretty much any other small to medium sized electronic device.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

2 portable panels.... 300Watts total? 6 hours full capacity, that's 1.8 kWh per day.... MAXIMUM. Just NO!

[@offwhitemke]

@@rogerstarkey5390 Why this hostility?

[@geoffshelley2427]

If you look back in history you'll see that owning and driving a "horseless carriage" in 1912 was a hassle!! Finding a filling station, finding a mechanic (they broke down plenty often), finding good roads, were all frustrations. Taking a distance trip was risky and could end up being no fun. It could have made one wish they had their old horse and buggy, at least that was dependable. However five years later, 1917 things had changed. That same road trip was a breeze. I think we'll see a similar paradigm shift here with EVs. I suspect that by 2027 the challenges Zac and Jesse are spilling about will become mostly non-issues. Over 5% of all cars on the U.S. road will be electric by then. While not a majority, it will be a large enough percentage that having poor charging service will not be acceptable. Keep in mind that Electrify America was a punitive judgment, not a profit center decision. The motivation to have them working properly isn't there. Once the EV market is large enough, movers with for-profit motives will jump in and do a proper job of things. (And as long as gasoline is above $4 a gallon, they'll have plenty of reason and wiggle room to do so.)

[@bobknob8440]

I still question our electrical infrastructure. Billions have been spent to use "renewable energy sources" but they are proven unreliable and destructive to the ecosystem. I like the idea of an electric vehicle with no need for fossil fuel but the technology isn't there yet. As more EV get on the road, more EV stations pop up, more electricity will be needed. A couple solar panels at EV stations are for show because they will not be able to charge even 1 vehicle fully at a rapid enough pace to matter. Plus EV's have been shown not to be capable of hauling heavy loads very far which means even if gas is over $4 a gallon, everything will go up in cost due to the need for long haul shipping via trucks, trains, and boats. I'd like to see a new fuel source for vehicles instead of batteries and plug in stations.

[@geoffshelley2427]

@@bobknob8440 I'm not going to take you to task on any of that. I only say that as ev adoption goes beyond 5% (which it will) the presence of the market created thereby will incentive-ies business players to make charging networks work.

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

>> "Keep in mind that Electrify America was a punitive judgment, not a profit center decision. The motivation to have them working properly isn't there." This is not entirely true. The government could have just made VW pay a massive fine. Who's idea do you think it was to "punish" them by forcing them to build a charging network? You think the guys in the Justice Dept are really that creative? No. This was an idea cooked up by VW. They had already said that they were not doing any more diesel models and they were going all in on electrification. And like Tesla they knew that they couldn't be successful selling EVs if there's no charging network to allow road trips. So what better way to be "punished" than to have the government "force" them to spend billions of dollars that they knew they'd have to spend anyway, rather than just giving that money to the gov't in the form of a fine? And VW is still the majority stakeholder in EA. VW is very motivated to make the network work well so that VW can sell EVs which they need because they have committed to phasing out their ICE models. If you watch recent interviews with the EA guys you'll see what I mean. They are transparent about the issues they are facing. They literally can't buy enough DC Fast Charging equipment because no manufacturers can build them fast enough. They are struggling to get spare parts for the stations they already have because all of them are going into new stations, plus supply chain issues from covid, etc. They are currently working on the process of manufacturing their own stations because they can't buy them fast enough from existing suppliers. These are really big problems that just aren't solved overnight. It took Tesla many years to get their network to where it is today. EA is just getting off the ground.

[@moonshadow7064]

Sounding more influencer than reviewer. Originally, I was thinking this was a review using a casual camping example but it seems more like stress testing. Everything you did while "camping" involved a plug. Most folks who do that kind of thing at the very least would take something that could even trickle charge in case of emergency. Also, you prove that choosing the equipment that you take unfortunately can't be something that you could just plug into at home and has to be thought out a little more or may incur more efficient wattage use.

[@mikelecomte3979]

This is one of the best videos you have ever done. It agrees with many other videos I’ve watched over the past 2 years, which show the difficult of living with unreliable chargers. I charge my 2021 Tesla model 3 long range in my garage 99% of the time. 3 or 4 times a year I take a 600 mile round trip to our kids. On those few times I appreciate the many Tesla superchargers on my route. It is comforting to know that they always work and will recharge my Tesla quickly. There are numerous other great EVs, but if the tenuous recharging networks they rely on override any other features they have.

[@grantguy8933]

Rivian real problem is how to ramp up to drive down cost. These kinks of problems can be fixed along the way. Probably too late now.

[@surferdude4487]

It really is a pity. The R1T1 is such an amazing vehicle but the trouble with charging and the software glitches have to ruin it. As Tesla opens up their super-charger network to other vehicles, maybe the experience will improve.

[@roboticvenom1935]

exactly, and non tesla chargers charge much faster on average! that's why the fastest time to travel across the US in an EV is NOT teslas, they're hyundais or porsche EV;s lol, and the 5 way EV battle from colorado to vegas was won by the ioniq 5 and the taycan, model x long range and model 3 well behind

[@surferdude4487]

@@roboticvenom1935 Well, sir, I'm not LOLing. Sure, if you don't mind very limited numbers of chargers, and chargers not working more than 25% of the time and being restricted to corridors where those chargers are available, then non-Tesla charging is GREAT! PS. I watched that video. The people driving the Teslas didn't have a clue about how to minimize charging time. I'd like to see them re-run that so-called competition with the guys from Out Of Spec Motoring.

[@cryptoslacker-464]

I was surprised when on holiday in South Island of New Zealand that I used non Tesla supercharger much more than Tesla's. Hopefully that changes. My thoughts after trip was there needs to be a massive growth in Charger networks to match the massive future need. Too many cars with too few charges

[@mspayitforward5295]

Thank you for an excellent discussion and for helping me feel far more prepared for my first trip away from home with my R1T. I do wonder though, what the Tesla supercharger network experience felt like for early adopters circa late 2012/early 2013. Do you think that’s a more apples to apples comparison with the progress or lack of progress Rivian has made with their adventure network? I kind of expected that I’d be waiting for some time for their network to be built out. I’ll definitely be keeping your comments and feedback in mind as I travel. Honestly love that you purchase your cars so you can fully say what you want. These are pricy vehicles. Purchasers don’t want you to pull any punches.

[@jeffreypeiffer]

I can't speak to 2012, I didn't have my first electric car until 2014 or my first Tesla until 2016. I can say the charging situation sucked for my Leaf in 2014. And was great for my Tesla in 2016. I couldn't charge my leaf anywhere but my house, and that crap car had a realistic 60 mile range. My Tesla had a 300 mile range, and I could charge for free at multiple L2 chargers, including our favorite beach spot, for free. Didn't even use a super charger until 2021 because I never needed to. But when I did, as the video says, it "just worked".

[@Hokie2k11]

@@tedmoss Hah, Teslas cost more man. He likely got his R1T quad motor for $70-75k. Model X is gonna run you much, much more, and a Model Y just isn't comparable.

[@AeschylusShepherd]

The charging speed is determined by the vehicle. I think that Rivian update really was the cause of the problem. I've not had any problems with my vehicle with charging at Electrify America (so far) but I can totally understand the frustration. We know in time the Electrify America network will continue to expand. I don't think this is a deal breaker but Rivian needs to get this fixed.

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

It's determined by BOTH the charger AND the vehicle. The max charging speed is the lessor of whatever the car and station agree on. High Power DC Fast Chargers create a lot of heat and they have to keep temperatures of certain components below certain thresholds. If the charging station detects a temperature increase it will throttle back the charging speed in order to reduce temperatures. This can happen if a fan fails, or coolant leaks out, etc. Even the cables themselves have to be cooled and liquid coolant is pumped through the cable itself to keep it cool. If that coolant leaks out, gets dirty, or the pump fails, etc, these can all lead to the charging station itself throttling back the charging speed to prevent overheating. I have literally seen pools of coolant seeping out of the bottom of EA stations. It's a not uncommon problem they've been dealing with.

[@mymelt1770]

Feel sorry for the Riv early adapters who set out on a camp trip without seeing this vid first.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"Adopters" They NEED "Adapters"! 😉

[@Dakcole]

My first EV was a Kona electric and after three 700+ mile road trips I had enough. EA has to figure it out. I bought a model 3, done four road trips now, Iv never felt so relaxed on road trips. Tesla really has it figured out. And CCS sucks!!!

[@RisenKrum]

Honestly, the chargers are not Rivian's fault, why blame them for the lack of UNIVERSAL chargers? It also is super unrealistic to expect a brand new company to launch them overnight. Not to mention supply issue constraints. I agree, the 3rd party charging network sucks, but that's not Rivian's fault. Where is the FORD/CHEVY/ETC networks, they have been in the market for years/decades and don't own a single charger.

[@randallsmith7885]

We rented a Tesla Model Y at the Budget Rent a Car from the Salt Lake City airport last week. It was awesome! I charged at all three Tesla super charger stations in the Salt Lake City area. I was able to charge the Model Y from less than 15% up to the 90's in a short time. The car started conditioning the battery pack for charging as soon as I set the supercharger location on the Tesla's navigation system. This was all superb! The Air BnB we rented also offered free EV charging, but it never worked! To be fair, the Air BnB Host reimbursed us for the cost of Supercharging during our stay. But I learned an important lesson - which is that if you are planning to take road trips in your EV, get a Tesla.

[@joer2513]

I love camp kitchen version 1, I can't wait to see what you guys come up with, I really hope you work on it with a version perhaps like the official one with folding/pull out draws draws :)

[@samuelrosethorne1858]

if they could keep it budget friendly (under 500 or so), that would be amazing. 🔥

[@mrnobody.4069]

When you guys are camping and like with other vehicles, the electric generators with the solar panels on them like Eco Flow or jackrey will be most useful. (Not talking from experience of course, but I have seen other people in KZbin charging model 3's or a model S in that way)

[@Lovejazz01]

Tesla laid out the blueprint almost a decade ago for so many things when it comes to EVs, especially for one of the most important things like a charging network. For other charging networks , they do it there way and is lacking and sad at best. Even Bjorn Nyland is still saying that even if there are many charging stations in RV rich Norway, nobody else but Tesla makes sure that the stations will work, or have many chargers available like an average Tesla Supercharger.

[@pepesilvia4564]

As an ex-Tesla owner I particularly prefer the random charging issues with the very rare "adventure" I might do than having my vehicle arrive from the factory with 1.5 inch panel gaps, miss-matched tires AND leaky roof, all "within spec" according to Tesla. I have to say, to anyone REMOTELY considering a Tesla, please check the quality issues those vehicles have, I' never drove a worst quality vehicle in my life than the Model Y, my college-car that was a hand-me-down Accord was better put together than today's Teslas.

[@ozo1010]

You know what’s not cutting it? The Tesla cybertruck 😂

[@dhincks1]

Ah before I got my 3 I had an egolf exactly my experience. It's been 3 years and seems like it hasn't changed. Moral of the story if you're thinking about getting an EV get a Tesla. At least until the infrastructure gets it together it is so frustrating to count on a charger and not have it working when you need to have it working. Especially if you're exploring. I've never had this problem since getting my Tesla I go anywhere I want and knoe if there's a charger there it's going to work as advertised. There are three different levels four if you count destination. Cheers from Northern California!!!

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

The issues at Electrify America are a fairly recent problem: We've been doing multiple multi-thousand mile EV road trips a year since 2019 and we never had any issues charging at EA stations until 2022. There are two key issues at play: 1) The number of non-Tesla EVs being sold is increasing at an exponential rate. and 2) supply chain issues are making it more difficult to obtain the parts needed to keep stations in good repair. So what you have now is *way* more EVs using the stations which means both more wear and tear on them plus it means that if a stall or two goes down that you now suddenly have queues of cars building up to use the remaining stations, which means wait times for drivers plus even more wear and tear on those remaining stations, etc. Tesla has a huge advantage here for many reasons: 1) They've been at this long enough that they've been able to streamline the design of their superchargers and they manufacturer their own charging equipment so they aren't as effected by the supply chain issues because they control more of their own supply chain. 2) Their chargers don't need screens or credit card readers which greatly reduces the number of literal "moving/touched parts" or parts that create a single point of failure. It also reduces the software needed because you don't need to design, build, and test a graphical user interface which adds a lot of software complexity. 3) Their chargers only have to work on one brand of vehicle. They don't have to design and test them against other companies vehicles to work out compatibility issues. Like others have noted: When Tesla originally introduced the SC network it wasn't exactly all smooth sailing at first for them either. It took time to work out the kinks. It took Tesla about 4 years to build out what Electrify America did in 2 years. Tesla just had a 7 year head start. When EA started building their network there wasn't a single manufacturer of DC fast chargers that could supply EA with the number of chargers they needed. So EA had to buy whatever equipment from whatever manufacturer had it leading to a hodge podge of various brands of chargers at different EA sites. This further compounds the parts supply issues because different brands of chargers need different parts so it's harder for EA technicians to have a uniform set of spare parts on hand that work across all their stations. EA is already learning some of the same lessons as Tesla: They are working on bringing the charging equipment manufacturing in-house so that they can control more of their own supply chain. Once they get this part of the equation under control I think this will make a huge difference going forward and hopefully they get the kinks worked out soon.

[@oldskoolbmw]

EA looses money each quarter. When VW's penalty diesel gate money runs out and EA shuts down, what they gonna do? They currently don't have to exist in any form of profit or business model and they can't make a functional product, what's gonna happen when they've got to make money and expand?

[@MichaelJordan-uo2ke]

You know there been other chargers prior to tesla superchargers. I have used electric vehicles and used various charging stations in USA. This has been since 2014. So they have had plenty of time to improve things. Reality they are doing it for profit with minimal maintance.

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

​@@MichaelJordan-uo2ke Other chargers, yes. But not a coast to coast network of high speed chargers suitable for interstate travel. That absolutely did not exist prior to Tesla's Supercharger network. The first supercharger stalls were set up in 2012 and quickly grew into a coast to coast charging network that was specifically set up along major travel routes. No other charging network catered to interstate travel in the USA until Electrify America started it's build out in 2018. I have also been driving electric since 2014. The longest range cars that weren't Tesla could go less than 100 miles at that time. And in 2014 you could not even drive from Austin to Dallas, or Austin to Houston in a non-Tesla vehicle. And if you couldn't even make it to the next major city good luck getting to the state line. There literally was no charging network that catered to interstate travel. Yes you might have been able to find a 50kW EVgo station in the center of a city like Dallas or Houston, but they were not set up between cities to allow inter city travel or inter-state travel. When you say: >> "So they have had plenty of time to improve things." Who exactly is "they"? Who is this entity you're referring to that you think would have been responsible for solving this problem for non-Tesla vehicles? The only entity to date that has been working to solve this problem is Electrify America and they didn't start working on it until 2018. >> "Reality they are doing it for profit with minimal maintance." Can you provide any evidence for this claim? Electrify America is a massive money loser. In fact they are required to spend billions of dollars via their agreement with the government. They have no mechanism for which to have a profit at all. So I'm curious how you can come to the conclusion they are doing it for profit when they are losing billions of dollars a year. Do you have some evidence of "profit" they are receiving by charging 16 cents a minute on a charging station that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to deploy. And how would a station being down, and thus unable to earn money, somehow hep their profit? Feel free to share your math with us.

[@renaissanceman5847]

These EVs with all this technology reminds me of the All-in-One office systems that combine printer fax copier scanners... they're great... until one component breaks and causes all sorts of issues. We need simplicity... not more complexity.

[@austinpowers1999]

Buy a bicycle

[@wb3550]

It is nice that their are early adopters. I've watched so many videos of people having issues charging with non Teslas. Living in a rural area we stuck with a plug in hybrid for our last two vehicle purchases. If we lived on the coasts we could probably go full BEV.

[@roaddog9938]

Love the fact that you guys were listening to the always sunny podcast!

[@nathanstreyle2649]

Any update on when/if the superchargers are opening up to other manufacturers? I think this would solve your issue and could potentially be a huge revenue stream for tesla. There has to be a way they can charge some fee for non-tesla vehicles. I for one would pay it just to use their network with a different vehicle

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

In the US they have to change the stalls and mount CCS plugs. In Europe they are partly open already.

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Another case of Tesla saving the day again?

[@ccibinel]

If they want to minimize the flood of non-teslas just limit it to those with a $200-300 adapter. CCS in canada seems far less 💩

[@silverstake88]

Tesla will need to DOUBLE the number of stalls to accommodate those manufacturers who haven't made the investment themselves. I'd be really pissed if I have to wait on a cheapie brand "X" to charge at the network