How Far Can a Gas Truck & an Electric Ford Lightning Go Towing the Same Camper On ONE Fill-up?

[@TFLtruck]

* Correction: Magna does not provide the ADAS system on the Supercruise.

[@bradmagnuson6963]

This video is ridiculous. First off, driving at highway speeds and hauling a 6,000 pound trailer, eats into range. If you'd driven on back roads, your EV range will be better

[@stevenbrace8579]

@@bradmagnuson6963 The point was to compare the two trucks. People don’t tow taking back roads, they select the shortest/ fastest route between two points, which is generally the highway. Driving back roads versus the highway can double or triple the trip time, and your range is still going to be abysmal compared to a gas vehicle. You seem angry that they essentially proved electric trucks aren’t viable for towing. It isn’t their fault that electric trucks aren’t realistic for towing.

[@bradmagnuson6963]

@@stevenbrace8579 no, wrong. They didn't think BEFORE they did this comparison. You clearly know nothing about electric vehicles, except what this video showed

[@hooooochR]

@@bradmagnuson6963 no, wrong. two trucks were compared in the same scenario, and EV F150 turned out to be impractical.

[@bradmagnuson6963]

@@hooooochR no, wrong. They failed to take into consideration a couple factors. The test is bullshit

[@ChucksPullingVideos]

This is exactly the kind of thing I have been trying to get across to people who keep pressuring me to switch to EV. I travel hundreds of miles for work, often times 100-250+ miles in a day. Short range and long charge times are just not practical for me. This was a great comparison test!

[@qwikz28]

Chuck, do you tow during work? My job is the same way, but I want an EV only because I hate stopping for fuel and a long range EV would be sufficient for me. I don't tow though for work, just travel between appointments and towing utility or ATV trailers on the weekend with my Grand Cherokee.

[@politicalfoolishness7491]

The reason politicians are promoting electrics is to force us to live in cities. Did I mention they want us to eat buys too? Santa Klaus knows best. SMH LOL

[@oyl23]

@@qwikz28 stopping for fuel? Doesn't the gas last longer than electric?

[@qwikz28]

@@oyl23 yeah I fill up more than once a week. I'd much rather plug in at home every night or so and stop for dc fast charging on occasion when I need it once or twice a year.

[@oyl23]

@@qwikz28 aaah ok it makes sense now.

[@AndyFL64]

When you actually account for a total recharge of the Lightning, you saved only $6. Regular gasoline, which would have been fine, would have cost you roughly $78 and took a couple minutes. A 75% charge cost you $27 which means a full charge would have run you $36.....ONE WAY. Once you pay to recharge again once you reached home base you would have had a total of $72 in recharge cost. Who here is willing to spend an additional 88 minutes of their life to save $6.

[@Cornelius87]

Plus when this was filmed I believe the gas was at it's highest, its been coming down since then.

[@pureblood2020]

Don't forget to add the price of the chicken dinner! LOL

[@kaden1499]

@@Cornelius87 where do you live?! Gas’s has not been coming down here. Regular is $5.29. Premium is $5.94. Diesel is $6.09… please tell how much your gas has come down from 2 weeks ago to now. Thanks.

[@kaden1499]

I wish ours would go down though!

[@Cornelius87]

@@kaden1499 I live in Texas in the Dallas area. 2 or 3 weeks ago you couldn't find regular for less than $4.55 and I remember seeing it as high as $4.70. Now since last week regular has come down to $4 in several gas stations in my area. Prices seem to be all over the place though, you have stations were it's $4 and then one block away they're still trying to sell it for $4.50. I think statewide it has come down 25 cents in the past 2 weeks on average, that's what was reported but where I live it was more than that.

[@stevesmith2770]

EV towing is simply impractical in all but local area towing. And the charging sites are not engineered with trailer towing in mind.

[@FOX1095]

@WUANDALE DINGLEBERRY no. Go hug a tree f4g

[@firefox0915]

@WUANDALE DINGLEBERRY this truck they're using costs 80,000 usd. They're only going to get even more expensive. They got a decade before they can get gasoline towing range

[@moabman6803]

The truck couldn't make 100 miles. Only way you get 230 miles is with a massive battery that will take a lot of charge. Maybe in 20 years.

[@spazoq]

@@firefox0915 50 years. People are wishing for better, but reality is never like that.

[@Greivous429]

@WUANDALE DINGLEBERRY you better add some more years to that. While your charging I'll be waiting at the destination.

[@krelllab6366]

Here in Monterey California it's quite common for me to see 3 or 4 cars in line waiting to charge at the local Target store. You are REQUIRED to stay with your vehicle while charging because others are waiting. I asked one guy at the end of the line why he didn't charge somewhere else. He said he was down to 18% battery and wasn't sure if he could make it to another charging station. Nice way to spend 3 or 4 hours of your vacation. Meanwhile, the girls in the gas car fill up in 3 minutes and there off to the beach.

[@patterisepi]

Well you dont have to wait in your vehicle for the charge. The crappy thing is you have to wait in line in the vehicle or someone takes up your place in the line.

[@DineNastyLakers]

Sexy story! Yeah EVS are for chumps

[@earlhester825]

Anyone who wants an electric vehicle has a definite short circuit in their brain. If you desire an electric vehicle go buy an electric golfcart.

[@ttss5726]

A cali person sighting laws yet provides no actual law or link just I heard from this guy and that guy

[@mikefighter]

Oh my God this is the Twilight Zone you will not be forcing real working people 2 convert to these piece of junk vehicles there's actually countries that have stopped selling Vehicles because they are crashing the power grid

[@mth2nd]

You should also have mentioned that in addition to having doubled the range and gas it can be filled almost anywhere and in significantly less time.

[@noname-zg8lh]

Without blocking anything. Also, lots of electrical plants are powered by coal and other CO2 fuels, so no planet saving with these. It's IDIOTIC. And these batteries will create a NIGHTMARE dump situation in a few years when they die out. So glad I'm dying before these plans come to full fruition. If you're under 30, I pity you people. Gonna be a cold, dark future for ya'll.

[@brandonhunziker9686]

That's right - and that particular charging station actually accommodated the trailer. Many would not - you'd have find a place to unhitch and park it. EVs are just not practical for towing - maybe to take your boat to a local lake or the utility trailer to Home Depot, but now for serious towing any distance. And a contractor or landscaper with a trailer going from job to job probably wouldn't make it through the day either. Let's face it - these EV pickups are commuters and grocery getters, like most gas pickups. But they can't really do double duty - like most gas pickups.

[@MCArchangel777]

But then again, not for long. Especially if you live in leftist states like Commiefornia, that plan to outlaw the sale of new gas powered vehicles, which will all but completely put filling stations with gasoline/diesel out of business, over time, and thus greatly limiting places you can go with a biofuel truck and trailer, even if you live in a state that does not practice arbitrary government overreach, dictating what fuels people can use.

[@Highway47Productions]

These are all the same arguments that were made when cars were first introduced in the late 1800s. Right now EV are not as efficient as diesel or gasoline powered vehicles and the infrastructure to support them is not as common. They are going to be the future unless we find a better non hydrocarbon alternative.

[@hiteshadhikari]

@@Highway47Productions how do u produce power to charge your environmental ev truck?

[@Greasyfingers60]

With the millions of views in just a few weeks of posting your video, I think you guys have answered the question all of us truck folks have been wondering. Can’t say I didn’t expect that outcome.

[@duckwacker8720]

You didn't expect an electric turd to fail?

[@thomasschwarting5108]

EV pickups seem to be NOT good for doing pickup things (think towing). How disappointing!!

[@TheHomicidalTendency]

@@thomasschwarting5108 Yeah, Im a huge EV fan. No one expected this thing to be a long distance tower. EVs atm are all short range daily tasks. The pickup now has utility. It will be a little while before batteries and charge times increase range comparable to gasoline vehicles. But in nearly every way EV is an improvement over gasoline. Many truck drivers dont go on road trips, dont tow long distances, and just use it as a daily driver that has some utility. With an EV truck you will spend less time charging at a charger than you used to fill up at a gas station. 90+% of fueling will be done at home overnight.

[@MF-rtard89]

@@TheHomicidalTendency a little while? Try never.

[@Gunalizer]

@@TheHomicidalTendency lol

[@kylefarlow]

Let's see. The F150 Lightning had 1/3 of its normal range when towing, and a range computer that over-estimated range by nearly 50% despite putting in exact trailer data? I'm not sure which of those is more troubling, but it shows that vehicle was never intended to tow.

[@mrjohnnyk]

A truck that can't tow? What good is that?

[@michaelrocker9000]

The point being that right now no electric vehicle be it a car or truck is not meant for long range driving. There are to many variables. Lights, heat, AC the entertainment/info center. Lets not forget the weight terrain. 45 minutes to get back to 75% charge is way to long. If i am taking a "Road Trip" I'd rather do it with an ICE. My local VA medical center is a 220 mile R/T I would have to charge the F-150 on the way home. The only problem i have now doing this trip in my 2014 Ford Focus is what used to cost me $15 in gas costs me over $40 now.

[@BradShreds]

@@michaelrocker9000 well put. Gas and Diesel ftw

[@jaytibby]

We do long vacation trips.. For this reason I would never get an EV for cross country trips..

[@ronald4life1]

@@jaytibby it's a shame the short range hybrids didn't take off. They make the most sense. 40-50 miles before the battery kicks in. Three majority of the time most people commute out take short trips then come home and charge. But longer trips are no big deal cause after better it'll just switch to engine. That should have been more popular if not for Tesla

[@chaseallen4352]

Seriously made me go from wanting this EV to now wanting a diesel truck

[@laughingachilles]

Good choice. EV's are ok for some things, such as people who spend most of their time driving arounds towns and charging up at night. The added advantage here is the elimination of particulates which cause air pollution and the associating effects on lung health. When it comes to long range driving, including any difficult ground or towing, then fossil fuels still win the day. The real advantage of a fuel based vehicle is that one doesn't need special infrastructure to refuel. If I run out of fuel 10 miles short of a station then I can either call a company to bring some fuel to me in a can, wait for a passing good samaritan to give me a ride and then hike back to my vehicle, get a tow or I can just walk it. Electric vehicles will always require a tow or pickup. I am sure in future new battery tech will come along that will solve the issue but we're just not there yet.

[@duckwacker8720]

There's never a reason to not buy a diesel truck. Just delete all new diesel.

[@DS-zl4up]

The issue is the Ford Lightning electric motors. I would like to see how well a Tesla Model X would perform to give us an idea of how well a Cyber Truck might perform.

[@laughingachilles]

​@@DS-zl4up I would be interested in that data as well but I don't think it's going to be as good as a diesel or even petrol truck. EV's draw more current with workloads in the same way a diesel truck draws more fuel, the difference is the EV vehicle will produce a more pronounced usage curve if we graphed it out. TESLA has been creating electric long-haul trucks and these may be more efficient, but that is because they are based upon carrying a load rather than towing it. This makes the engineering easier as it's based on a single problem but a diesel truck often has multiple roles. The long-haul trucks still concern me as they are carrying a lot of battery weight. I guess we'll have to see real world performance data to get a good idea of their effectiveness.

[@risanch]

The technology for EV is just not there yet. Well to be honest if you're staying in town and going to work and back EV is probably perfect. Other than that, as far as I'm concerned EV is a NO go. I'm not going to pay $50K plus for a vehicle I can only go around town with. I'd rather buy a cheap old beater vehicle for that.

[@jamesbeaman6337]

Kudos to the TFL team for using real world identical travel trailers at the same time and route rather than the flat bed. Makes a big difference and provides good control for the test.

[@poplaurentiu4148]

Yeah, well i can't wait enough for that Lightning pick-up to arrive in Europe we barely need towing such big & heavy trailers for such long distances but considering how much cheap the electric pick-up was filled up it makes a lot of sense on long term owning and with less services & reduced costs, no more pollution taxes less insurances costs for green vehicles and other bonuses & benefits.. Because let's say going in camping no one i know in the right mind will ever racing forth & back packed with kids, dogs & all stuff with those trailers behind, everyone should enjoy the vacation excursion, experience the traveling +considering all the other features of ev's we always come to same conclusion that ev truck has already made enough impact to make a lot of people thinking that is all they will ever need.. because for gas-guzzlers goose necks trailers, heavy duty equipments we can always rent or hire companies specialized for such jobs.. even semi-trailers are getting electric lately and not just Tesla but also other partnership companies from Europe & other markets as well..

[@andrewneven6816]

And people need to understand that the F150-Lighting is only styled to look like a truck. It is not designed to function as a truck.

[@anydaynow01]

Yeah it would be interesting for them to do a timed run to see how long it would take for them to take identical travel trailers on a 500 km road trip to a remote campsite. I've heard horror stories of folks having to stop at a level two charger for hours just to get enough charge to get a DC charger. They should have made the F-150 hybrid a PHEV, that way you can plug in at home and do 99% of your around town driving on battery mode. Then when on a road trip or towing you can run gas hybrid mode, which pulls and gets similar fuel economy to a diesel.

[@TFLtruck]

Thank you for the kind words.

[@randythompson4006]

@@anydaynow01 literally Andre has been driving the hybrid for months!

[@ronb7931]

Imagine how much worse those batteries would perform in extreme cold or heat! 😳

[@THESLlCK]

@@sanvirel6182 imagine the rude awakening tesla gets when everyone that doesn’t live in California perfect weather complains that the cars don’t work outside air conditioned areas lol

[@brian1204]

Battery technology is continuing to improve in all areas, including ambient temperature effects.

[@THESLlCK]

@@brian1204 people have been saying that for the past 10 years about a technology that has existed in cars since before gasoline and yet we still face the same problems. Gas technology is improving too, and at a much faster and cheaper rate.

[@evilsanta8585]

This f150 in 10 years will look like a dinosaur. EV tech is just in its infant stage and more and more companies are investing and researching

[@anonimxsidecas]

@@THESLlCK That is simply false, because gas technology has it's own limitations. For example, achieving a ridiculous 40% of efficiency is nearly impossible with a gas vehicle. Also, prices are moving upwards faster than the extraction rate nowadays, and also there is the environmental issue which we could argue it's secondary, but nevertheless important too. Battery vehicles, even accounting all these issues, are cheaper, more reliable and much much more efficient than it's gas counterpart. The only advantatge that gas cars have nowadays is the fact that they're being producted in mass quantity, and they already have a good recharging (refilling) infraestructure, which also took decades to get to the point it is now. The electric vehicle wasn't a viable option back in the day when the consumer wanted a vehicle, because batteries were very primitive and also it was very slow to recharge an EV battery, that's why gas cars were chosen. Nothing else. When charging infraestructure improves, battery technology improves and gas price go to the moon, we'll see if your comment holds up. By now, BEV have made a huge leap to get into the market and compete. Give them a few more years and will drive ICE cars obsolete with ease. They're simply superior. I kind of understand your anger towards EV, and seeking for those little issues with are being adressed fast. Like towing, or immense range (btw, batteries now can go up to 700km, more or less), or charging infraestructure (there are an insane amount of superchargers and here in Europe are increasing, without talking about other companies offering this kind of service). And going back to the much faster and cheaper rate: gas technology hasn't improved very much in the last decades. Maybe the engines have become quieter (funny enough), but the average l/100km it's pretty much the same. The progress has been only made in antipollution equipement which, surprise surprise, isn't requiered in an EV. And a cheaper rate... there are loads of cars with similar specs of those of an EV which have the same price. EV are not very cheap yet, but compare today's offer of cars with the one 10 years ago. The ICE is dead for passanger cars, and I am not an EV fanboy: ICE are far superior in heavy towing and semitrucks, for example (even though we could use trains, but that's some government issue), and ICE are generators by themselves. There are plenty of uses to ICE yet, but their journey has reached an end.

[@johndrake2705]

Please do this run again this coming winter when it’s -35c out side. I’d love to see the lost of battery life due to the cold and see how far you can go on a charge with a trailer in tow. I need a good laugh.

[@craigcricket7932]

Also, 110° Arizona Heat. Running up to Flagstaff.

[@craigcricket7932]

Also, Tucson to Flagstaff on a 110° day.

[@anthonyspadafora1384]

Hey! Don't garbage this up with facts! We are in fantasy lala land and you are ruining it LOL

[@TheDozbun]

What kind of person goes camping in -35c temps?? :)

[@johndrake2705]

Those who travel south across the border to the south portion of the states in the winter from Canada like my parents did after Xmas. It can be bloody cold in certain places here in Canada and the northern border states. But if not a travel trailer perhaps towing a trailer of equal weight like a car, truck or work equipment and see how far you can get in that weather. How many times will you have to stop to recharge in a days drive. Just a 5hr trip down the road could be all day if you got to wait around every 20 to 40 minutes to recharge and get may only 60 to 80 miles of range. The guys in Colorado had a okay day for thier test, but it wasn't winter time. I got nothing against ev trucks. They look impressive especially for short hauling. Long hauling is a different can of worms. I hope the industry improves the range of the batteries in the next 5 to 10yrs. If not, here in Canada by 2035 all new sales of vehicles must be ev compliant. Unless hybrid and extended range vehicles like the old volt are allowed to be built and sold. I don't know what its going to like for you guys in America? But any one with a 2034 or older truck here may have a golden egg in thier procession if battery range and recharge times don't improve by then. We will have to wait and see what happens. And only the powers that be knows what what the cost of fuel will be in 10yrs.

[@Theonedjneo]

What you did is prove just how impractical an electric truck is for people who actually use their pick-up or live in rural areas. I have an ev, and I laughed when it gave you the estimated range because I knew that it was way too optimistic.

[@zollieh]

For real. This is why I'm not getting rid of my diesel trucks when i get my lightning lol.

[@RadoMatt]

Curious to see what this would have looked like towing uphill in the Rockies.

[@jaye1967]

In the winter.

[@michaelsingleterry1573]

It would of been worse for the electric the gas would of still gone a lot further

[@terryshepherd8595]

What happens when u run into a rain storm and need wipers for an hour or two or more, or u live in Northern Alberta when it gets to -30 , - 40 , and need your heater good luck 🤣

[@therealdadoom7509]

@@terryshepherd8595 These EV vehicles will result in deaths for people that don't know better up north.

[@roybatty-]

And a15 mph head wind, with that radio and heat on.

[@Asantenanna]

I've worked for magna for 5 years. No one has heard of them even though they're the go to third party supplier. Cool to see they sponsored this!

[@JSomerled]

Yeah,Magna is a great co.. I’ve always enjoyed collaborating on programs with FoMoCo

[@carlitodeleon768]

This is really informative. I was really pulling for Lighting ; but 89 miles range . That’s is horrible .

[@RandySRT]

and then 45 minutes and 27 bucks to take it from 9%-75%, so only 2/3 of a charge at a rapid charger.

[@bradmagnuson6963]

Did you forget that he's hauling a 6,000 pound trailer?

[@jizzyjake6783]

That's brand new. Imagine what it gets in 3-5 years. I hate batteries.

[@bradmagnuson6963]

@@jizzyjake6783 these guys were really dumb, and didn't grasp what they were doing.

[@PickledAndFermented]

@@jizzyjake6783 almost identical. New batteries have a sudden drop off at the end of life, not a logarithmic drop off.

[@olsparkywisenheimer8239]

This test would be even more dramatic vs a Diesel. My old gas rigs were always hurt much more on trailer mileage than my diesels.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Hybride disel best plug in hybride disdle

[@frankgeimer5952]

That is a real eye opener on the range restrictions of the Lightning. Thanks for the ride along!

[@MagicMike_101]

Open your eyes. They are lying to you. Open your eyes. DDDUUUHHHHHH

[@howzit9397]

Those in government pushing for EV vehicles I’m guessing they all have invested in these companies so that’s why the 100% push for it

[@2MasterBuilder2]

@William Arrington ... It's more of a battery technology issue. That's why the results are the same across the board.

[@JonDecker]

@@MagicMike_101 the 150 extended range weighs 8500lbs. Add a trailer and wind resistance and the best you can hope for is 50% of original range at 55mph. All EPA estimates are done below highway speeds, so yeah... This is a legit reference point for their driving choices.

[@richkar1127]

They even tested it against a 6.2 Denali Truck. There are several that would have fared much better.

[@darebear2438]

As a horse trainer who hauls gooseneck trailers on the regular, it’s going to be a looong time before I even begin to consider electric. I’ll be surprised if they’re ever able to make the performance comparison come even close. Even gas motors don’t come close to keeping up with what diesels can do.

[@nateanderson2797]

Road trips in a Tesla with some strategy is completely fine but the trucks aren't there yet. Is the gm going backwards with all the chinesification? An old powerstroke would have better range than both trucks combined on a single tank.

[@MIGUELGUTIERREZ-gi6qh]

Don't bother there Garbage.

[@My_HandleIs_]

Yeah, for towing, the EU laws to max go 80 km/h is a step in the right direction. Also, for towing - especially wintertime, battery packs must be in the 200+ kWh range. If consuming 50 kWh/100 km, that gives 400 km of real world range, so you can use the 20-80% SoC of the battery for safety and quicker charging. So chargers must be maximum 0,6*400 km = 240 km apart, and preferably 200+ kW chargers. It isn't more complicated than that. We will get there in 5-10 years, which is just a "snap of the fingers". So... EVs ARE THE FUTURE!

[@silentferret1049]

Yeah people keep saying Gas don't come close to a Diesel but when you look at that same Diesel they all have one thing in common that can be swapped onto Gas... A turbo. Remove the Turbo and Diesels fall flat. People never run a test with a Gas with the same Turbo as the Diesel for a proper comparison.

[@CT-vm4gf]

That sucks, I wonder what people like you are going to do in the future.

[@Ethan7s]

The difference is, the gas truck could’ve carried an extra 2 (or 20) gallons of gas easily, whereas the electric truck could not lug an extra 20kw battery around.

[@rojoe3455]

Actually if they wanted to fabricate it, they could setup a towable battery pack. There was a tesla competing in a drag n drive event recently who did just that for range extension.

[@PatrixBest]

@@rojoe3455 The gas truck could probably carry 200 gallons of gas for the weight of that one extra towable battery pack

[@god-son-love]

Hydrogen car has a market.

[@gambamaster3329]

He also swapped out the battery trailers aka refilled the tank

[@secretsquirrel6308]

What do you want? The gas truck had a measely 24 gal tank. And it still beat the EV by a factor of 2. Any serious buyer of that truck would scoff at 24 gal capacity. So much that such small capacity acts to limit purchases, limited to short trips on aspalt.

[@justaname109]

I think what would get me, other than the obvious lack of range is the unpredictability of the range. Sure a gas or diesel truck may not be spot on either, but there’s no comparison between opportunities to charge vs opportunities to refuel.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Yes hybrud plumbing hybrrdds eco bist Evo disel

[@adriangallegos2888]

Thanks again TFL for this real life comparison. I viewed the initial test on the IKE with the Rivian and immediately could see that an EV is just not ready for real life trailer towing. I had a reservation for a Lightning and that video helped me to then cancel and I purchased a F150 Tremor with a 36 gallon tank. I just took a camping trip with a 5500 lb trailer and went 355 miles on one tank. There is no comparison EVs are just not ready yet.

[@johngoad9549]

It depends on time verses cost. About 60% to 80% of the energy contained in gasoline is dissipated [lost] as unrecoverable heat in an ICE engine. An EV uses about 80% of the energy while 20% of the energy is lost as heat. In other words, EV's are far more efficient in the use of energy. That means that if gas is $5.00 a gallon about $3.00 to $4.00 of that money is wasted. That is why EV's get so much better fuel mileage equivalents. [My EV gets 105-110 MPEG]

[@davidpatrick8153]

That's awesome man, congrats!

[@adriangallegos2888]

I am an EV advocate and enjoy our second car which is an EV immensely. Great for around town and even road trips are great, but for towing just not there yet and no way you get that efficiency. Solution in my eyes is a true plug in hybrid with a larger capacity battery for in city driving and ICE engine for all other real world usage for a truck.

[@bozartg]

Yep, I've had a Tremor on order for nearly 6 mo. Sucks to wait but one would have to wait for this underachieving electric truck too.

[@stuffjunk5019]

@@johngoad9549 Yet the fact still remains that his ICE vehicle can go 355 miles on one tank and your ev will go 80 or less towing the same trailer lol.

[@GreatUSTreasureHunt]

The EV truck made it from north of Denver to south of Denver. Stunning.

[@scottjacobs7341]

🤣😂🤣

[@TheAnnoyingBoss]

Stunning and brave

[@thomasschwarting5108]

Being sarcastic here.

[@ericfradenburg754]

Amazing! So green!

[@charlescrain2726]

Don't forget charging time factored in as well - you cannot practically charge to 100% while on the road, blocking traffic. Keeping it between 20 and 80 will lower the range significantly. Now we need a payload range test with the camper OR tools loaded in the back. You have now shown the lightning to be impractical for towing recreationally. Now its time to test for a local work truck, then a camper, then off road - the four main reasons to have a pickup truck.

[@TruckerMike089]

I agree. Load these two similarly as someone would go for camping, RVing, and basically anything else. See how these things stack up.

[@justinfowler2857]

@@TruckerMike089 Good idea although I suspect weight is less of an issue than the aerodynamic profile. I could be wrong though

[@robintaylor1490]

Charging time and fueling time should be factored in. So for the first stage the electric truck is charged at home, the gas has to drive to the gas station and back. This is a small factor, but it should be included.

[@TruckerMike089]

@@robintaylor1490 Yeah I'd say that's a good idea as well

[@milesb4231]

Why bother? Same result.

[@awstock3]

Do a video during the winter time to see how it really preforms..... please

[@brianb1273]

Great video! It showcases the absolute folly of going electric beyond inner-city commuting.

[@xeridea]

Towing is a weakpoint. For the other 99% of the population, 300 mile range is plenty, even for those with abnormally insane long commutes. And saving about 75% vs fuel cost. And if you have a long trip, a 30 minute charge is just the right amount of time to grab something to eat, stretch, etc every 4 hours. Factor in never stopping for gas and just plugging in at home, and it is a net time save.

[@stevequincy388]

@@xeridea Where do the 99% of regular people get the 60 grand to pay for an electric vehicle? I can buy a lot of gas with the 40 grand I would save by buying a used ICE vehicle.

[@xeridea]

​@@stevequincy388 Average car price is $47,000, though one can be had for around $25,000 EVs start around $35,000, so not unreasonably expensive. Throughout your ownership, you will save around $15,000 vs buying fuel, factor this in and EV ends up cheaper long term in most scenarios. This also assumes gas is $3.00 per gallon, which it is not, and ignoring oil changes and other maintenance. With current clowns in office, gas won't be going down anytime soon, they heavily restrict oil drilling, hurting everyone. Your $60,000 likely for an SUV, so comparison cost for gas would obviously be higher, and the fuel savings much greater. Cheapest method is to just buy a good used car for around $5,000, buying new is always an expensive option, but if you are buying new, EVs make sense for most people. My main point is that comparing long haul towing, which is not common, and labeling entire industry poorly is disingenuous. Video is about 80% sponsored adtime anyway, so not much gained from watching it.

[@stevequincy388]

@@xeridea Where are you seeing EV vehicles for 35 grand? Plus are you factoring in the 10 to 15 thousand dollars to replace the batteries in the next five years?

[@timdoane2527]

@@stevequincy388 where the heck are you getting five year replacement in five years?! Yep nowhere...

[@jetsons101]

Would love to see this done with a diesel truck, also do the test at night in the snow so the lights and heater have to be on. Small city car=EV Truck=gas or diesel. Thanks for posting.......

[@genxray951]

diesel, you can make it from fossil fuels or from organic matter. lots more torque than gas, which equals much better fuel efficiency.

[@oldengineer1519]

I disagree that the truck has to be gas or diesel. Ignoring price the Lightning would be perfectly adequate as a work truck for the local area. I can see it being used to tow a trailer to a job site and the truck plugged in while the owner is working. Now for people like myself who use the truck for towing an RV long distances no EVs are not ready and the day they can handle it is still a ways off.

[@billywinningham691]

At a boy it also needs to be snowing like mad with wipers on high and roads slick!! I would want plenty propane and plenty of grub for that camping trip that would be not too rare away

[@Joe-wk9ow]

diesel would go even further.

[@jrmed7983]

Yup 👍 these ev trucks are no good for hauling or driving at night snow nothing peace of crap 💩 this truck will for sure leave you stranded in the country

[@michaelc5061]

The outcome of this test was never in question. EV's are great for commuter cars. Long hauls, especially towing operations are not there yet.

[@brianbarnes5096]

I agree. I'm a proponent of EV technology but they don't make sense to tow yet.

[@paulcantrell01451]

Airstream demonstrated an interesting idea, with the trailer having its own battery and drive motor. Sensing hitch axial load, the trailer can negate aerodynamic drag with its own motor, leaving the range of the truck unchanged. Obviously, it increases the cost and weight of the trailer, but it's an interesting idea that I hope will continue being developed...

[@michaelc5061]

@@Raze120 oh, it does? Explain how I'm charging my EV with my own solar panels I installed in my backyard? Don't speak if you are just going to make yourself look foolish.

[@conrioakfield414]

@@Raze120 Comes from many sources, including nuclear, hydro, wind and solar. Coal's been on it's way out the door for many years.

[@daveonezero6258]

@@michaelc5061 Even then the minerals and mining and all the fossil that goes into producing all these things makes it not as great as people make it seem. The Drive train is great. The reason for wanting one is bogus.

[@bandjolyn]

As someone who regularly takes 1000+ mile road trips (sometimes hauling a trailer), love my v8 even more now lol. That thing can go 300+ miles with a full trailer. EV trucks are mall crawlers that will never see a spec of dirt in the bed 😆

[@vardashan]

This is the video we were waiting on, well done TFL. The look on Tommy's face illustrating real range anxiety was a great shot. If you use your truck to tow a travel trailer, 5th wheel or anything with a similar frontal wind load, electric trucks simply aren't viable (yet).

[@TFLtruck]

thank you for the kind comments.

[@4rdF1Hunny]

This here. For a guy like me the lightning is perfect!

[@atomictyler]

Without a doubt. It'd be cool if they did the energy conversions to see how much energy was needed to get the campers to where they got. That would let people see about how much better batteries need to be before towing something like an RV on long distance trips. It would also be eye opening as to how efficient the electric vehicles are compared to the ICE ones. It's going to take some big battery improvements before towing RVs long distance is viable. For a smaller RV the F150 hybrid is currently the ultimate truck imo. You can get the massive on-board generator to hook your RV up to and still get the range. edit: testing the towing with something that's not a giant sail would also be interesting. it would be really cool to see how big of a difference that drag makes. I'd guess it's a very significant difference, which of course does not help for towing RVs, but it does if people are towing flat beds of stuff.

[@davidmarconi528]

bottom line battery tech is not up to par for this type of use.....I still wonder why we can't have a power generation setup on a vehicle to charge on the go but maintain electric powertrain.

[@Cloud30000]

@Tyler7 You would need Engineering Explained to get the conversions and data like that; I think the Lightning offers some great opportunities for some video collabs

[@adamharriger5193]

Thank you TFL for finally proving just how impractical an electric truck is at it’s current state. My gas F150 with it’s 36 gallon tank can go over 300 miles pulling my 7k lb travel trailer and refuels to 100% in less than 10 minutes.. The lightning needs 3x the range and 1/3 the charge time before it’s even considerable. I cannot imagine stopping for 45 minutes or more every 100 miles with my family of 5 in the truck! Not to mention the fact that the $30,000 in savings between my F150 Tremor and the Lariat Lightning sure buys alot of gas…

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Hybrid f150

[@pault7977]

I've been wondering this for a while... Apart from the lost and wasted time hanging around, how much extra should someone budget for coffee, drinks, snacks, fast food, and overnight motel/hotel stays while it's charging? Shouldn't these extra costs also be included in the 'math' to figure out the true cost to charge it?

[@maxtotow]

yes they should. they buy something to eat every time they drive the lightining. then the health problems and costs related with eating too much bad food. ha ha.

[@derwinevans6751]

That’s a really smart observation 👍🏾

[@nelly13b]

Don’t forget the charging lot lizards

[@dethkl0k]

100%. I saw a family charging, that had been at their charging station for 40 minutes. Parents and two kids, and the two kids were going absolutely crazy, leading the parents to lose their minds lol. Maybe also consider mental health costs with family counseling after a road trip!

[@regularperson7]

Nah it would give me time to pop out the Coleman 2 burner and make lunch on the cheap instead of going to a drive thru

[@tommissouri4871]

Great comparison and road test. Thanks for the real world comparison on the towing distances. One item you forgot in the "expense" was time. The gas vehicle was back at the finish while the electric had only gone halfway. And with only a 75% charge, there was going to be another stop for a partial charge to get home. 7:52 - cool! The tire spins on the wheel. 18:28 - Wow, Sinclair gasoline. There was a Sinclair refinery near where I grew up and my Grandpa worked there for awhile, but I can't remember the last time I saw a Sinclair station. 18:46 - wow, your gasoline prices are really high. Gas in Florida was about $3.50 for regular, $4.20 for premium in June 2022 and is $3.50 for regular and $4.20 for premium now in August 2023. 20:36 - Gas mileage is interesting at 8.9 mpg. My vehicles from the '80s and '90s ('78 Chevy van, '85 Chevy Suburban) got that same towing mileage with a 24 ft enclosed race trailer running usually 7000 to 8000 lb. normally and not on just a single long interstate trip.

[@scottfox6400]

Takeaway from the test. The range on both vehicles is reduced when pulling a trailer. Charging stations are not designed for trailers. Charge the truck to 3/4 capacity so it is faster, although still slow compared to fuel which is much faster to fill and can be "topped off." On a long road trip, gas will get there, electric will need a hotel.

[@MrPir84free]

That'd be about the ONLY way to use the Lightning for trips. Basically after the initial first hop, it's 45 minutes of driving, then 45 minutes of charging if towing, all the way till you finally get somewhere where you can top off overnight. May as well use the range; dump the trailer, and use either motels, or rent the RV trailer at the destination.

[@StarHunter28]

you're kinda hyper simplifying the range; the electric truck has it's range severely reduced, while that gas truck takes only a moderate loss.

[@techviewer8379]

@@StarHunter28 what? The V8 GMC Sierra gets 660 miles of range on a full tank when not towing. According to this test, while towing the trailer it went down to 200 miles of range. They took a similar hit percentage.

[@solandri69]

@@techviewer8379 The GMC Sierra Denali is rated at 15/20 MPG (short bed), or 14/18 MPG (long bed). Not sure which one they had. If you assume they had the 20 MPG highway version, then dropping to 8.97 MPG is 44.8% of its mileage when not towing. I suspect it actually would've gotten 18-19 MPG highway if not towing, since they went up in elevation by about 1000 ft. So 50% is probably about right. (660 mile range is with the 3L turbo diesel, not the 6.2L V8.) The Lightning got 85.9 miles on (131 kWh * 91%) = 119.21 kWh. In their previous highway test it went 164.5 miles on 77 kWh, or 2.136 mi/kWh. Towing they got only 85.9 miles, or 0.721 mi/kWh. Or 33.7% of its non-towing range. I'm actually impressed it managed that. This was an all-uphill run. If it had been a round trip, with regenerative braking on the downhill leg it may have hit 40%. Still not as good as gas, but 33% was about what I was expecting for the round trip. I called this in the comments on the 4 truck shootout video. An ICE is paired with a transmission, which (with enough gears) lets you keep the engine near its efficiency peak regardless of speed or load. Electric motors have a much broader efficiency band - so broad that EV manufacturers don't bother with transmissions. But their efficiency curve isn't perfectly flat, so they do end up tuning the motor for peak efficiency in normal driving conditions. If you drive it outside of "normal" conditions (e.g. towing), it will operate at lower efficiency.

[@aussiegruber86]

no 350kw+ chargers in the states?

[@MichaelJacobson]

TFL this was great! I would love to see the Lightning run this same tow route in the winter at say, 0 degrees F. It would be interesting to see how much more range would be lost due to the cold.

[@ejgrant5191]

Glorified Golf Carts look to be a DEATH SCENTENCE in winter weather....

[@flacjacket]

I have a Porsche Cayenne S e-hybrid (the wife mobile). It is excellent, 10/10 maybe the best all around car I have ever owned, but the ev range blow in winter is real. At its best in the summer it will show 20 miles of ev range (I have managed to do about 26 though) but in the middle of winter (in New england) it will dip down to a max range as low as 9. I would not be surprised to see that redoing this test at 0 F would see the lightnings range decrease to under 60 miles.

[@StarHunter28]

I put $50 bucks on 50 miles

[@mmark300]

Would also depend on truck/battery prep. My tesla can be schedlued to be warmed up in the garage before I leave in the winter. This also conditions (warms up) the battery, which helps greatly with the trip range.

[@DavidRitko]

@@ejgrant5191 That's a myth. They do pretty well in winter. Cold weather does have an effect, but it's doesn't kill the car.

[@cornhusker2006]

Thank you for a great real world comparison of electric vs gas truck towing.

[@briggsb1]

What they don't talk about is battery life over time. This is a brand new truck. How efficient will this be in 5 years? I have a 2008 4 Runner. It gets the same gas mileage it did when it was new. Is that true for EV's? I know it's not for my battery powered tools.

[@thepolishcow9050]

It is true. I wouldn’t be surprised if basically all of these early EVs end up in the junkyard within a decade.

[@briggsb1]

@@thepolishcow9050 I have nothing against EVs as an option. My problem is with government mandates forcing car companies to be all EV by a certain date. Also, using 7.5 Billion of our tax money to only build 8 charging stations. This feels like money laundering to me and I wish someone would Audit our government. The whole clean energy government program seems like nothing but a grift. Follow the money.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Rave 4. Ev best ev

[@nathansumerlin8391]

Really cool test! I was surprised at the charging costs and time! Doing the math it would cost about $65 to go the 155 miles and take almost an hour to fully charge it times two.

[@RandyTWester]

The wind drag goes way down at lower speed, so it's probably faster overall to take it a lot slower. If you can make it to the destination with one charging stop, you'd probably charge at the trailer campground overnight, so it'd be one, $27 stop instead of $ 90 for gas.

[@LukeA_55]

@@RandyTWester I'm not buying this bs. It sounds like a stupid hassle that no one wants to deal with To each their own

[@Marcelll88]

In the Netherlands this trip would cost 240$ if u convert 3.4km per litre at 2.6€ per litre right now. Avarage income is 2-2500€ a month so good luck towing, not affordable over here

[@LukeA_55]

@@RandyTWester plus the $90 for gas to drive 155 miles is just bc gas is so outrageously expensive right now Say it was 3 bucks a gallon (hopefully it gets back down there), it would've costed about 50-60 bucks for the same trip If you had to charge twice the Ford twice would cost about 54 bucks and make the trip about 2 hours longer

[@shadowbanned5164]

Dont forget that several Governments around the world are looking at taxing EV's per mile traveled to make up for the lost taxes from petrol.

[@garrygraham7901]

The cost of the V8 was quite high, but the Duramax would be significantly less, so the ICE vehicle is still the only viable option for longer distance towing. Just imagine if this test was done at 2019 gas prices.

[@dochollywood1921]

Hell using regular octane fuel instead of premium would've cut the cost down by quite a bit

[@joekaiser8116]

A diesel does get better gas mileage but the cost of a diesel, fuel, maintenance and repair cost is significantly higher than gas.

[@dochollywood1921]

@@joekaiser8116 it really only makes sense if you either: a) tow very often, or b) drive 25k+ miles/yr at highway speeds. It's unfortunate really just how demonized diesel is in the USA

[@TheFlooringInspector82]

@@dochollywood1921 Diesels are great but you really need to tow frequently and put a bunch of miles on in order to make the investment actually worth it. I've had several and honestly now I just do not have a need for much of a pickup truck. I need a truck to haul my boat, I need it to haul my tractor occasionally, trips to home depot or the lumber yard etc. But I honestly can't remember the last time I towed something more than 20-30 miles from my home. The dealership that services my tractor is only 7 miles away, our camp on the lake is only 15 miles from our home, there's 5 lumber yards within 20 miles of my house and 2 home depots in that same distance. For me an electric truck probably makes sense because i also have solar on my home and can practically drive for free then. But I do get how for most truck guys the battery technology just isn't quite there yet.

[@windrider65]

@@TheFlooringInspector82 in the end, it's your money, and we hope each of us in knows how best to spend it.

[@MichaelJordan-uo2ke]

I love the comparison. Thanks for showing this. That said, I am suprised about the trailer. $95,000 grand for that. I know that prices have gone up but only 5 years ago something simular would go for about $25,000-$35,000. Trailer is way over priced for not a premium product.

[@5280carspotting]

is your name actually michael jordan?

[@greenlog7023]

@@5280carspotting It is I know him IRL. He’s actually quite famous, was a big basketball player back in the day.

[@RichardJoashTan]

And I will buy a fully loaded F150 Lightning Platinum anyway.

[@Heywoodthepeckerwood]

That raider costs 95 million dollars? Wow.

[@SevenSixTwo2012]

@@RichardJoashTan Congrats on a fine choice, your virtue signal machine will be an awesome grocery getter! All the other millennial men in the Walmart parking lot will look at you with pure envy, as they get in their Priuses. 🤣

[@mrblackgabe]

So glad you guys are doing this and showing everyone how evs are just not ready to take over.

[@gannonw]

You mean work better in many but not all situations...which will always be the case!

[@FatheredPuma81]

Would love to see this taken to another scale that's similarly as useful to all Americans. Semi-truck vs Train style. EV's as we know them today will never take over for hauling btw. Would require a completely new kind of battery.

[@meyersbald]

I'll take my 14 F150 3.5 Ecoboost with the 36 gallon tank. Towing my TT that weighs about 7k lbs will get me 360 miles. Not having to stop so many times to fill/charge to me is worth it. Much rather spend my time at the campsite with the family. 🤷‍♂️

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Dude has new f1500 Evo boost unooerr zero hook 27.5 too 36.5 mogs

[@8ball_998]

Thank you. This just answered my question. I like the silverado EV and was seriously considering it down the road. If range is cut to a 3rd while towing then it simply won't work for me. My big concern was making it to the lake and back with our boat on a single charge. 145 miles give or take. That seems unlikely going off this test with the lighting. This is also a brand new battery. That range will only get worse with more charge cycles.

[@brettanderson2849]

A boat is going to be much more fuel efficient than a big enclosed trailer like that. I get 11 mpg with my bass boat, and only 7 mpg with an enclosed trailer.

[@DarthNero]

I would recommend you to stick with ICE trucks for now until EVs solve the range & charging issue in the future.

[@davidroman1654]

Does you boat has a gas or electric motor? Just asking?

[@8ball_998]

@@brettanderson2849 My boat is a 21' Bowrider. It actually sticks up well above my truck and has cover/bar up in the air even higher about 10' or so tall. Granted it's only 3500 to 4k weight wise and I'm sure is less drag then that trailer, but it is much more of a towing load then my bass boats I've owned.

[@Eric-zs6rd]

@@davidroman1654 No planing powerboats have electric motors. The inefficiency is even worse there since there is no coasting like on cars. There are electric trolling motors for powerboats that move it at speeds generally below 5 mph.

[@revtoyota]

Having driven one of the Ford lightnings in Alaska. They are ok at best in my environment. They are more for city slickers and weekend warriors. The battery range is total crap when it is -40 outside. As well as when doing a road trip up here it can be 150-250 miles to get to a gas station little lone a charging station.

[@deanage69]

The vast majority of truck buyers are in fact city slickers and weekend warriors so there is a market for them.

[@theodoreplumlee3440]

The first Ford Lightning was delivered to a guy in Michigan on May 26. Tell me more about your experience driving one in the middle of winter during negative forty temps.

[@paulwilliams667]

Hey dumbäss, you realize customers are the LAST people to drive vehicles right? I worked in auto import and drove brand new vehicles months before release. That’s not even considering company employees who are paid to test vehicles or get early access. Maybe he’s affiliated with ford or a dealership, you don’t know jack shit. Regardless, what he said about batteries is undeniably true. Every single EV car ever produced has abysmal range in freezing temperatures.

[@OnceUponReddit]

Liar

[@elbowsout6301]

Can you guys do an around town towing efficiency test? I would love to see a direct comparison of towing a loaded utility trailer in stop and go slower traffic around town. The EV would definitely perform better with some regen braking and the gas powered truck would take a hit with idling in traffic. Some people use their trucks to tow around town hauling equipment to construction sites and junk to the dump etc. I wonder how much more efficient the EV would be VS the gas truck in this use case.

[@jandk0202]

Great information, Thank you. In California the premium fuel would cost you $6.79 a gallon. You would definitely have to drop the trailer off to charge in the parking lots here. Like other have said I liked the real world comparison with driving conditions, A.C. going. We will be keeping our 2002 F350 for a while longer until the technology gets better with the driving range.

[@Californians_go_home]

Comifornia will quit licensing your gas or diesel f350 before it dies. This mess we are in now is all orchestrated and by design to force the transition. Promise me you won’t leave California . The surrounding states cans fit any more.

[@ReachOutToWilliam]

Tech is never going to get better with battery electric trucks. The tech is mature. Only fuel cell electric trucks will go the distance.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Biyy hybrrdde catr onky $8.50.

[@remsencey]

Modern vehicle tech is so amazing! It's so great that you can input what you're towing so it can be sent wirelessly to data centers out of your control alongside with your trip path. All of which can be automatically accessed without your knowledge by any government agency, LE, or any company that requests or has previously been given full access to the data.

[@matthewcarroll5278]

That is not right at all

[@lpdirv]

Nobody gives 2 FKs what you do. You might find that you are quite irrelevant, much like the rest of us.

[@wowdogeful]

@@matthewcarroll5278 have you read the privacy policy Ford makes you accept every time you want to start the car? The rights you hand over to Ford are insane, you literally give them free hand to do whatever they want with your data, including selling to other companies. No way would anyone ever hit "accept" if they read and understood all of it.

[@matthewmosier8439]

And they can brick the truck if they want. Imagine if somebody powerful had it out for you?

[@jmmywyf4lyf]

​@@matthewcarroll5278Thats exactly whats being done with your data, among other things...

[@ArmoredAnubis]

I'm an EV owner and a Truck driver in Colorado. It's crazy seeing you go to Target in castle Rock. I deliver there regularly. My first EV was a 2013 Nissan leaf and it still runs perfectly. I never had a failure with that car. I gave it to my mom and now it's her daily driver with only 70 miles of range. She loves it and appreciates its reliability. There are some weaknesses to EVs and they won't work for everyone but no vehicle is good at everything. Good job though comparing these trucks!

[@silverpurkat]

Exactly. I am an EV owner for 4 years and the EVs are not for everyone depending on your life style and distance. I also have my old 2009 Suburban. I use my EV driving around town and fully charge it twice a week at work while I use the Suburban for road trips and heavy loaded stuff. If you are able to get an EV at a good price (not the teslas they just price gouge you) and keep your older gas vehicles. You will win in the end with fuel prices, lower property taxes, lower insurance rates and so on. I noticed the new Jeeps have a switch manual option from EV to Hybrid to Gas similar to if you switch from 2 to 4X4 with that option you have more control over your energy consumption. I was thinking of getting the lighting but now I am going to wait and see what comes out hope trucks with this manual EV to Gas option. It just seems more practical with the current charging and gas options out there.

[@davidbyrne8519]

Toyota corolla,Prius another brilliant reliable hybrid car

[@SteelOfLegend]

That's the thing I keep telling my coworkers... If you're going to be going out of state, hauling shit, doing a lot of travel for your work all day, you're not going to want to use an EV. If you are just going from home to work and back with nothing inbetween, what's the point in taking a V8 that gets 12-17mpg vs taking an EV/Hybrid for those 30-50 miles? Sure you could say "Well that means more money I have to spend on vehicles" and you would be justified in saying that. But if you can't afford to own a brand new V8 truck and an EV/Hybrid, why not ... idk.... buy an older truck that is 1/3rd the cost?

[@Benjones-k7n]

and then, how long will it take to fill up? i just love the stress of the ev owners about running out or where to find a charger, and if it will even work if they get to it, and then waiting an hour to charge

[@macventurezrn7143]

Thank you for putting this out. Summed up exactly what I needed to know for towing with Electric vs ICE trucks.

[@danielmarek4609]

Range anxiety is a real issue with EVs. Towing always requires more energy so it's not surprising to see a real loss in range. The biggest disadvantage to EVs vs Gas/Diesel vehicles is the recharge/refill time. Guess in the years to come EV's recharge rate and range will vastly improve but the world isn't ready to go all EV. Good video.

[@oldengineer1519]

This is what I explain to people. Electric trucks are not ready for long distance towing of RVs. Not only is range limited but the long charge times make long distance towing impractical. Electric trucks have a use but it is more for local use not long distance towing. Where they will work ok as a tow vehicle is for someone in the trades or similar going to the job site where distance isn't an issue and they can plugin while they work. I'm not against EV trucks and think they will eventually meet the needs of long distance towing but that day is still down the road a ways.

[@BeefNEggs057]

Coal powered vehicle you mean.

[@rocksfire4390]

newer EV's already have insane charging times that are not needed for 99% of applications. 800v ev systems can charge from 10 > 80% in under 10 mins.

[@TheRealMafoo]

Cool video, but the outcome is what you would expect. If you want to long haul (or anything where you need range), get a gas-powered car or truck. For the other 98% of the population, get an EV.

[@cartrips9263]

Physically impossible. You would need cables as thick as your upper leg for just one charger. Of course they would be very heavy then. This hype is going to explode. At the latest when power prices will skyrocket as well (already the case in some European countries - can you imagine paying 35 cents per kWh, even before the crisis?). Countries wont just accept the loss of taxes that come with less fuel sold. They will increase taxes on electric power massively.

[@cobra-he9xj]

They have an important discussion near 14:50. There will always be inherent wasted range due to the fact there will never be an infinite number of charging stations. You will always leave miles/range on the table so to speak. So this effectively reduces the already dismal effective range even further. Same goes for ICE vehicles, but with the much greater range they offer, coupled with the proliferation of gas stations, the anxiety is nonexistent.

[@prabuddhaghosh7022]

As EVs takeover more and more gas stations will close and more EV charging stations open, till at some point the range anxiety boot will be on the ICE owners foot.

[@cobra-he9xj]

@@prabuddhaghosh7022Possibly, but that's a limited view of range anxiety. Range anxiety encompasses more than simply "range" as stated in a brochure. It's a function of battery age, cycles, depletion and charge limits to reduce capacity loss, cargo, electrical loads, temperature, lost time due to charging, etc. All of which are essentially non-issues for an ICE vehicle. In simpler terms, climate, vehicle age and towing weight have little bearing on my ICE range. Those same three factors often preclude me from attempting a trip in my EV. And these EV issues will only improve marginally over time. I design for both types of vehicles, so I make my living no matter what people buy. But I feel bad for potential EV (especially truck) owners that don't have physics or engineering degrees. They should not be mislead by those with no technical knowledge or those with political agendas. That's simply disgusting. Need more people out there being the honest voices of reason. As far as range anxiety being on the other foot years from now? I'm fairly certain governments will force ICE vehicles out (cost prohibitive) by legislature (fuel economy and road taxes) directly or by limiting oil production (gas pricing) long before range becomes an issue as a result of distance between fuel stations.

[@KevinKimmich44024]

@@cobra-he9xj I think it's a safe bet that governments will try to force people into EVs, but it still might not happen. It's an extremely resource intensive project that has only a theoretical payback of "less CO2" (even though vehicles like the lightning emit more CO2 over their life than a ICE car), and there's probably just not enough resources to go around to build out the grid and the charging stations. EVs are really just another product that consumes scarce fossil fuel energy and materials. I doubt they're as efficient as ICE vehicles after 100+ years of engineering. The people who "care" about global warming only pretend to care; when push comes to shove, all this stuff will go on the back burner, then in the trash... it's already happening in dopey europe.

[@cobra-he9xj]

@@KevinKimmich44024 Yep - hopefully. After I researched the marginal, if any, carbon advantage (or possibly disadvantage) I moved my sights over to the humanitarian impact. I became even more disenchanted with EV. I grew up in a farming community and it breaks my heart to hear about South American indigenous people being forced to move off their ancestral lands due to the water table drop. They can't farm anymore since all the mining for battery materials consumes enormous amounts of water. The truly educated and unbiased "tree huggers" understand EVs just move the problem - not solve it. But one doesn't see those research articles mentioned in the easily digested news for the masses. So now the wealthy, virtue signaling snobs that can afford EVs "think" they are being green because they don't smell exhaust from their car. So it's great for those of us in highly developed regions. We get the (perceived) benefits of EVs without seeing the destruction of the Earth's crust...or disbanding of communities. Meanwhile, we screw over those who are poor and have no voice. How global-friendly of us. And even putting that aspect aside, you don't need an MBA like me to realize this move to EV only strengthens corrupt China (an enemy of the planet) and weakens the US. Maybe one needs to be really old like me with a sense of history to read the tea leaves. The Chinese car manufacturers will eat the Big 3 alive in the US within a couple decades. No? Well, many didn't think the Japanese OEMs could take a foothold here back in the day either. 😏

[@cobra64th21]

@@KevinKimmich44024 evs might be practical once solid state batteries hit the market. It should tripple the range. Even are the future but they should not be forced on anyone

[@ryanburnham1932]

I would love to see some cold weather testing, temperatures below 0F, because it gets to -50F annually where I live and the next closest town of 1,000+ people is over 100 miles away in every direction. Also, none of the communities, including mine, have any quick charging stations, there may be one about 300 miles away but I am not sure.

[@matao87]

That GMC got more than double the range of the lightning but also had a laughably small 24 gallon tank. Most half ton trucks have 26 to 31 gallon tanks which would extend that advantage even more.

[@JoshuaParks]

24 gallons isn’t so bad with a high efficiency diesel. I get 650 miles range with my GMC 3.0L without the trailer and something like 430 with a relatively heavy 20ft travel trailer. At some point I’ve got to stretch my legs and get something to eat. But I agree with you that a 24 gallon tank is too small for something that gets 9 mph towing.

[@temur72]

The main issue is to fill the GMC would take 5 minutes, the lightning 1 hr and would require triple the amount of stops

[@jellyfrosh9102]

They also used the extended range model of the lighting which costs 20,000 dollars more than the standard version. They gave the electric every advantage and it still performed terribly.

[@stopandthinkaboutit8636]

Now if only the media would cover this, especially you guys already did all the work, in great detail. Nice job!

[@minotaurbison]

I'm waiting on hydrogen powered vehicles to be honest.... compressed hydrogen has a higher energy density than gasoline and with the new tank designs it's just as safe. There are some semis out there that are using hydrogen in fuel cell tech already, but I am waiting on hydrogen internal combustion to be a thing... theoretically any old engine could be converted over with a bit of effort and a lot of parts.

[@minotaurbison]

@William Arrington I'm hoping that since some semi manufacturers are pushing for hydrogen fuel cell tech for long rang trucking that it will become as common as diesel stations, but it's still a long way off. I just don't see batteries progressing enough to make them viable for long range trucking or commercial airplanes due to the weight and lack of energy density compared to any current fuel types.

[@thepalm1687]

What exactly do they need to cover? There isn't anyone out there who isn't an idiot to begin with who thinks an EV is replacing ICE for towing. The flipside are the idiots on the other end who squawk the obvious to anyone who will listen. To those people, I'm just curious how they actually think the world works? oh v1 doesn't compete with the current best option... better not try to make any advances or innovations...

[@Scypher0th]

they wont...they dont want ppl knowing or seeing this so they can keep pushing the whole electric is the future bullcrap that the west coast seems to think....

[@ridealongwithrandy]

@@minotaurbison I'm with you, I'll switch my 2004 Mercury Marauder in a heart beat!

[@alan4788]

I found this to be very informational and went a little further with the math using their numbers from the video. Came out to $0.44 per mile on the Ford EV and $0.60 per mile on the GMC. For them to have the same operational cost, $0.44 per mile, gas would need to be $3.95 gallon. Something else to consider is the different charging prices available. I found the Electrify America pricing for Colorado and their website shows $0.43 per kWh for non-members, $0.31 per kWh plus $4.00 month for members. Looks like the membership becomes worthwhile with the first charge. Also appears the Ford is running the 98kW standard battery opposed to the 131kW extended range. Here's the math: EV: 85.9 miles used 91% of the charge, $27.00 to charge from 9% to 74% (65% capacity) 65% charge / 91% used * $27.00 = $37.80 (how much a charge from 9% to 100% would have cost) $37.80 / 85.9 miles = $0.44 per mile GMC: 155.8 miles used 17.371 gallons. $93.79 to fill it back to full. $93.79 / 155.8 miles = $0.60 per mile at $5.399 To find the gas equivalent price: $0.44 * 155.8mile / 17.371 gal = $3.95 Lastly, figuring $0.31 kWh pricing available (not calculating monthly membership), gas would need to be $2.85.

[@bendy6626]

Please advise how long electricity prices will remain stable enough to support more of these EVs on the road. Especially with regional prices now shooting to the moon while systems try to convert to inefficient wind & solar.

[@janetphillips2875]

@@bendy6626 I would say: please advise how long electricity will remain stable...period.

[@phigonggoi]

You forgot to account for your time waiting for it to charge. Say, if your time is worth $15/hour then waiting an hour for it to charge is equivalent to additional $15 while the ICE car that will be $3? Imagine if you have people riding with you then their times also valuable. Not a good user experience getting to places late and tire.

[@AmperageY]

The one in the video is a extended range lariat with the 131 kWh battery pack

[@vtwinwild1]

I want to see the test with the extended range F150. Obviously a hauling $70k truck is going to out-range a $36k base model. Duh.

[@seaplaneguy1]

News Flash: New Combustion Engine Tech will be 75% efficient and have 6000/8400 mile range on Ethanol/gasoline. This will allow the typical 3-4 times drop in range (MPG) of an efficient car from 6000 with no tow to 1500 to 2000 miles with trailer. With CO2 capture and recycle, you can make fuel at home but you lose 1/2 the range due to the space needed to store the liquid CO2. 3000 miles turns into 750 to 1000 mile range, which is about where one would want to be at the minimum. Hence the 6000 mile range to start with. An EV needs at least 3000 miles to be valid in a tow just like this new combustion tech. The future is RE fuels and 75% combustion, as the costs are 20 times LESS for fuel making with RE than it will be for a 100% RE grid. In the UK now, super charging is 80 to 90 cents/kwh, which is like $27 to $30/gallon gasoline. Fuel with this new tech will be 3 cents/kwh...hint... A Diesel is around 18% efficient without tow (load) and moves to around 36% to 42% with a heavy load, which is about a doubling of the efficiency. This shows up as a 1.5x to 2x drop in range (3/2= 1.5x and 4/2= 2x) instead of the EV at 3-4 times. There is no magic in a Diesel. If a Diesel were 36% (18 x 2 = 36) ALL the time, it would get around twice the MPG on average. When it came to towing, it too would drop by 3-4 times in range just like the EV. A semi truck with 300 gallons and 6 mpg will go 1800 miles. With 3000 miles (CO2 capture and now load) and 3-4 reduction during tow (load), the range would be 1500 to 2000 or about what a semi truck gets. 3000 miles will be possible for an EV in 20-30 years, some say, so it will not be impossible to tow with EV. Charging at 1500 kwh battery (150 x 10) would take a while. Better to use fuel at 15,000 kw (Ethanol) or gasoline at 20,200 kw effective charge rate. The flaw of the concept of an EV (battery or fuel cell) really is in the mining waste and fire risk. We don't have the minerals, and won't be able to build out the fleet of car, let along do this every 20 years. Won't work. The fire risk and behavior of the fire that cannot be put out (game over folks) is totally not acceptable and should get EVs banned. With fuel, you simply deprive O2 or heat and it stops. A friend of the family was burned to death in a Tesla recently and 12 children from two men now have no father. With this new combustion tech that captures CO2 and water, They/he would be alive today as the fire would be instantly put out during a crash with the engine compartment at -78C full of CO2 and the Ethanol diluted past the autoignition temperature with captured water sprayed inside. The only question is why can't people wake up and see that EVs are NOT the solution to RE or transit. This all was known in 1990 when my old airbag bosses invented the modern EV and stopped. Nothing has changed. Still over 100 reasons not to buy an EV. EVs still need rare earths and massive mining and the range still drops with hot/cold/towing. All known for 33 years and $trillions wasted. Another You tube video does not change anything...

[@newscoulomb3705]

This is exactly why I've been telling people to expect no more than 1 mi/kWh when towing in an EV truck. That was an oversimplification to make the math easier (e.g., Lightning and Rivian ~130 miles and the Silverado EV ~200 miles), but I think it provides a valid baseline. Still, as this video shows, even that can be optimistic. The GMC Denali was affected more than usual, so it's clear the conditions were less than ideal. But that's the thing: We don't always get to choose the conditions we travel in. Some EV folk are still blasting GM for including 200 kWh packs in their HUMMER, Sierra, and Silverado EV trucks, but I think this is a perfect example of why we can't reasonably discuss replacing ICE trucks (let alone, ICE HD trucks) will all-electric until EV trucks include the option for 400+ kWh packs, which would have given Tommy about three times the range he saw on this run in the Lightning. It's possible that a hydrogen fuel cell ranged extended EV truck is the way to go at this point, though we are a long way from having the national infrastructure to support them.

[@StuartBelote]

I agree with most of this except that as battery chemistry/ manufacturer improves we will get more range per KW.

[@philmonachan8007]

LOL imagine the cost of a 400kw battery equipped truck.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@StuartBelote There's not much to be gained in terms of efficiency from the batteries themselves. Most modern lithium batteries have >99% Coulombic (roundtrip) efficiency, so while I agree that we will see some efficiency gains overall, they are going to come from areas other than the battery. Regardless, EV efficiency overall is already so high that it simply isn't possible to see significant enough gains from efficiency improvements alone. If we took all of the losses away and made the Lighting a 100% efficient machine (not possible), it would still only see about 120 miles with its current battery capacity under those conditions. That is why a bulk of the efforts at this point are directed at increasing energy capacity rather than increasing efficiency.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@philmonachan8007 Right now or in 4 to 5 years? It's unconfirmed (but possible) that the Silverado EV WT also has a 200 kWh pack at $40,000. So a basic trim truck with a 400 kWh pack could reasonably come in for cheaper than the Lightning they tested in this video. Before that can even happen, though, current batteries would need to see a doubling of their gravimetric and volumetric energy densities, so we probably won't see it until Quantum Scape, Solid Energy Solutions, and Solid Power start producing their batteries in volume and shipping them to automakers.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@Hogla287 Absolutely. I'm very much a light truck user myself... modest trailers (we got rid of our fifth wheel years ago now), work loads, deliveries, hunting/fishing/camping, etc. So the Lightning in its current form is definitely good enough for my personal needs, but I can see how it still falls a bit short for a lot of people. Combine that with a lack of familiarity with public charging, and I can see why a lot of truck folk are slow to transition.

[@dancantwell6060]

Thanks for your comparison test . How long does it take to charge at a camp ground with 2 campers plugged in to the same pedestal? I don’t think we are ready 100 miles a day over night camping 10days to go 1000 miles , electric vehicles not yet . We still depend on coal to make the power and the power grid can’t handle that much demand . Thanks for your test keep up the good work.

[@dsimon33871]

Would it be so horrible to have a generator as part of the equipment? Like they, Ford does with some of their other models? I mean technically it doesn't have to work on the engine so it's not a hybrid simply have it as a means to create the electricity to charge the vehicle when necessary. Or am I missing something?

[@whatsit2ya247]

@@dsimon33871 exactly! Or use a small engine as a generator for electric motors for the wheels or the wheels themselves be electric motors, think e-bike or locomotive.

[@dsimon33871]

@@whatsit2ya247 Im glad Im not nuts... lol. I figured it was just old fashioned horse sense.

[@davidp2707]

All 3 of your conclusions are false.

[@T4xEvader]

@@whatsit2ya247 it could run on gas, and combust, we could call it an internal combustion engine, and put on in the engine bay!

[@Watchdoc65]

Oh forget it! Can you imagine if you had to tow up the mountain, in the winter, with the heater on! And in a rural area with no chargers? This technology has not come far enough to be very practical for most people who need a durable work truck, particularly towing trailers.

[@dregsta]

The whole point of the gadget trap is to keep you in cities

[@rodx5571]

Absolutely i can imagine that, but in my imagination i am in my old ford f250 gasser. Only battery in my truck is the starting battery, and my cell phone battery.

[@WindyYucca]

The range would be about 15 miles maybe.🤣

[@Mark-vu8ct]

@@dregsta exactly. Own nothing and love it. Serve your masters, and live in your coffin sized apartment. This is the life they have planned for us.

[@davidnguyen941]

Most people? Most people stay in the city. Most people aren't towing trailers. EV are good enough for most people (except for price). EV definitely isn't for everyone but it can satisfy most people.

[@v9237]

Whether by myself or with fam, I love to road trip and just drive to different cities, counties and states. I was hoping the F150 lightning was going to be my favorite thing ever! BUT I have x2 gripes. X1- At the moment, the inconvenience of having to stop and charge, and then electric vs gas price isn’t worth the inconvenience of stopping. X2 - aside from payload, I can’t tow with the truck, because the range drops significantly

[@Fomoco365]

Good video. I was most surprised at the price of those trailers. I can't imagine paying near $100k for a bumper pull travel trailer.

[@robedmund9948]

And $90k for the truck! Sounds like a second mortgage for that setup.

[@justinfowler2857]

Everything has gone up but my paycheck.🤬

[@americancapitalist9094]

Inflation officially may be 8.6% year over year, but for things like vehicles, trailers and campers I think the real world numbers are over 20% - or 40-60% since before Covid.

[@mikeamizzle]

Egregious ripoff pricing, perfect for the Colorado overlanding scene

[@screamingr1366]

Maybe a loaded 5th wheel but not that little trailer! Those 5ers are sooooooo much nicer! Not even in the same league for that money! They’ve lost their minds!

[@stephenmiller5023]

Thanks for an Honest comparison. Same weight trailers , Roughly same weight trucks( I’m guessing 🧐) and definitely same road scenario as they were on same road , side by side on same day, etc. It just makes me want to keep my 2002 GMC Sierra crew cab all that much more . With my current setup , intake, exhaust ( 4” without any major flow restrictions) and Gale Banks 6 gun tuner ( bought it when they first came out on market shortly after buying my truck in 2003) I averaged 11-13 mpg towing our 30 ft toy hauler all over highways here in Southwest . From California to Nevada, or to Arizona , it didn’t change. With a 30 gallon stock tank I had a towing range of about 300 miles . Towed our trailer to Las Vegas , 320 miles on one tank of fuel and had about 1/8th left in 6.5 hrs once with good traffic & road / weather conditions. Now let me get this straight, IF YOU BUY AN $80,000 dollar truck , and can only go approximately 100 miles before looking for a charging station , and can only tow for around an hour & a half or so, then wait 45 minutes ( as stated here in video) to only charge up to 3/4 ( 74% battery charge) or about another 70 miles and repeat again( assuming you CAN FIND another charging station, my trip to Las Vegas mow takes me 2 days ( give or take ) . Plus charging fees ( assuming rates are about what was paid here again in video ,$27 dollars a pop, I’m looking at around $145-$150 for electric costs ( again IF I can find a charging station & NOT have to have my truck & trailer towed by AAA or some other service . No thanks Ford , and Tesla & anyone else who’s gonna offer me one. In almost 20 years of ownership now I have had 2 sets of injectors to replace ( $6, 280 this last go around with 8 new glow plugs) and two water pumps at around $130 a pop, and other than tires and basic maintenance ( oil changes at around 5-6000 mile intervals really hasn’t gotten anywhere near $ 80, 000 dollars . We paid $38,000 in 2003 for truck & with aftermarket engine upgrades & an Airdog fuel lift pump/ filter system I installed this last injector replacement time I figure we still have another 20 years or more life in the old rig. It still runs as good or better than when we purchased it & has NEVER broken down or left us stranded anywhere. Current Diesel prices here in So Cal are out of control , but I am still keeping this old reliable rig. See you all out on the Highways & I’ll honk as I go by when you’re stuck with no charge left.😉😊

[@MagicMike_101]

It's your opinion, just leave people with their choice.

[@phoenixmistertwo8815]

And you can't fix an EV, on the side of the road, like you can with a gasoline or diesel.

[@stephenmiller5023]

Mike Magic Most definitely. As my 93 year old Dad is fond of saying “ Whatever floats your boat”. He was a ship builder almost his entire career, so go figure…😉👍

[@wv8417]

@@MagicMike_101 that's exactly what he did, he gave his opinion and stated his fact's feel free to give your opinion and your facts like Stephen.

[@PimptatoPCs]

There is very low chance that the government will allow you to drive that truck for another 20 years. California has scheduled a ban on small gas engines and gas generators. It's only a matter of time before ICE vehicles are taken off the streets. I'll bet that within 10 years they will refuse to register ICE vehicles and everyone that owns one will be forced into "cash for clunkers 2.0"

[@07GTStallion]

Great job! So glad you guys went with the trailer choice you did. This is exactly the type of trailer I would have liked to see tested. A true test. Especially a toy hauler because of the height and weight. Also it should be noted that the gmc has a very small tank at only 24 gal. My 19' 2500 Cummins has a 31 gal tank and would have easily gotten 11-12 mpg (I estimate) with this trailer. Giving me easily around 300 miles of range. Also keep in mind this trailer was only around 60% of the F150's towing capacity and this route didn't appear to have any real mountain passes. And this is the extended range battery option! EV trucks just aren't up to the task yet.

[@h8GW]

TBF, the Excursion they hauled up the Ike Challenge weighs even more and it seemed to be doing much better range-wise. I guess the Excursion only _looks_ like a brick aero-wise.

[@themeach011]

@@h8GW travel trailers are really hard to tow even though they don't weigh that much. Bringing the speed down would have made a huge difference in range. Still nowhere near the gas truck but they would have made it to the charger they were trying for

[@07GTStallion]

@@h8GW Maybe a little better. Maybe not. Hard to say. I would say it would do slightly better. All speculation until we see them do the same route. I mean it used 16% in 8 miles up that hill. Yeah it regened quite a bit but still think the range would be less than half the EPA rating of 330. Which is what they claim it is capable of. But either way. Unless these trucks have a bed full of batteries. They aren't something I'd tow heavy with for any real distance. And remember this route with the toy hauler was mostly flat with one small grade. A toy hauler is definitely asking everything of any truck so this was a great test. And no one on the internet has done it yet. And everyone wants to see what its capabilities are. TFL is the real deal. I will admit I did think it was going to do better than it did after seeing how the truck performed on the Ike. Little shocked that they got realistically less than 1/3 of the range. They estimate from 0-100% they could have sqeezed 100 miles. But I think realistically if your were attempting this on your own. Your looking for a charger every 40-50 miles and that's without grades and extreme heat or cold. That's just not practical and you'd have to charge from let's say at least 10% or less to 90% or more which means your gonna be stuck at that charger for at least 45min to an hour or more.

[@nestorp1992]

That extended range battery on the Lighting (131Kwh) holds the same energy as a 3.89 gallon gas tank. That actually makes it pretty impressive that it was getting about 24.4 mpg equivalent.

[@richerwin6397]

Try driving to Florida from New York and see how that works. It'd take about 5 days and the motel fees would more than triple the expense of the fuel used in the 20 hour drive.

[@cheesegrater231]

Let’s talk about the real let down. That trailer costing 100k. When half of it is a empty space.

[@lebronjames4705]

A house is 80% empty space and you pay 250k at least what are you talking about?

[@ldkellandshaw]

@@lebronjames4705 Houses don't lose 80% of their value over the years.

[@BroMark1611]

@@ldkellandshaw Granted, but initial cost rebuttal against claim was given for the win.

[@cheesegrater231]

@@lebronjames4705 a house comes with land, which is actually worth something. Plus my house is not empty at all, and if you took it down to square footage Useable per dollar it won’t even be remotely close. That turd will maybe worth 20g in 3 years. You have no argument.

[@charmilli0n]

Only saw the inside for a second, but I'm 97% sure it was a small car or perhaps motocross hauler with tool storage & it's not even loaded. Truck may not have made 50mi if it was loaded. It's not a camper. I would imagine at $95k it has a fancy hydraulic table the vehicle sits on & can be loaded & unloaded with a joystick like a wrecker.

[@sonnynick1]

Keep in mind this test was done with a empty camper and truck. Imagine the camper having a sxs and loaded down with food and gear for a vacation and 3 to four other passengers in the truck as well. I doubt it would make it 60 miles in a true real world test.

[@nia6849]

At the moment EV towing is like going camping in your own backyard.

[@rkan2]

Weight doesn't have such a significant impact. aero, aero, aero

[@jasonsachinger3276]

@@rkan2 And what do you think a bad aero profile directly translates to....weight...you can easily replicate pulling a bad aero profile trailer by pulling a flatbed with an equivalent weight to match what the aero profile translates to.

[@sanyaod]

I believe this test was done at 5000+ feet elevation. If this was at sea level elevation, and colder temperature, the range would drop a lot

[@paullastnamehere3295]

@@rkan2 So how about a Boeing 777? It has plenty of aero. J/s

[@FinanceMan]

Great video. I’d love to see a diesel as well. Take similar price vehicles. So 60-80k? Get the best trucks you could find in gas and diesel in the cost of the ev and then try each. I’d also suggest in extreme heat like phoenix and extreme cold in winter at some point in the mountains. Ev will drop significantly in this temps too. They aren’t even close to worth it for trucks to tow anything any sort of distance.

[@leeroyjenkins9992]

Diesel is always gonna get better mpg my 2018 f350 gets 13 on 35" tires towing around 15k daily

[@albundy8052]

@@leeroyjenkins9992 That's the same mpg my Dodge Cummins gets, Pulling my 32 foot fifth wheel travel trailer.

[@leeroyjenkins9992]

@@albundy8052 I was hoping for better but it’s better than my 2005 f150 5.4 got unloaded 😂 thing was a turd

[@Viccus476]

Congratulations to TFL Trucks. You are featured on Breitbart News today.

[@HoustonTexasAMG]

Imagine a 12 hr drive taking 17 because you gotta charge every 80miles

[@my1vice]

I'm sure companies that buy work trucks will be happy paying folks for the downtime.....

[@stevereisman6872]

I'm 57 and when I was in High School they had electric cars/trucks that were done just for fun in auto shop, they only went about 12-20 miles. Today, early EV's did about 100 and quickly Tesla brought us 240 and now up to 350.....if you don't like the range, just wait a few years: demand creates innovation. A bit over 100 years ago the idea of 'sending pictures' through the air to a 'television' was utterly inconceivable and now we think NOTHING of it....so EV's, they're still in their early stage and we have to look towards the future. Number 1 priority is not be energy dependent on anyone else, Putin taught us that....

[@HoustonTexasAMG]

@@stevereisman6872 solid point.

[@RazvanRazvanelu]

@@stevereisman6872 :)))))

[@bandjolyn]

@@stevereisman6872 I agree that demand drives innovation, but government subsidies and laws are creating an artificial demand and artificially high prices. The technology and infrastructure is not there to be practical in a lot of cases for what policy is demanding.

[@snowman2834]

So imagine a 1000 mile round-trip... 10 stops 1.5 hours each or 15 stops with 45 minutes each. This is just ridiculous, I'd give up and turn around

[@_Mario_PL_]

And they want electric 18 wheelers with a weight of 80,000 pounds. I don't see that happening, not even in 20 years.

[@michiganengineer8621]

@@_Mario_PL_ Not for anything beyond "last mile" deliveries anyway

[@sierrasix4068]

@@_Mario_PL_ it's all BS, Tesla is a welfare fueled scam company

[@esSKay25]

Long haul towing will end up being battery and hydrogen fuel cell hybrids. It's the only way to make the math work with current technology. The fossil fuels gotta go, but battery tech is still too heavy per KwH compared with dino juice.

[@michiganengineer8621]

@@esSKay25 Hydrogen is here yet either, the infrastructure at least. When there are hydrogen fueling locations at every truck stop (at LEAST), then fuel cells will be viable for more than localized use.

[@miggs.countrymusic]

This is such a great real world test. For my lifestyle and applications, I'll stick to being in the old gasoline or diesel engines over EV. Also- I'm not waiting around 45 minutes to charge up my truck for 75%, ha. Especially if I'm trying to get somewhere. Most of my stops even filling up are averaging 15-20 mins.

[@RisingSun0203]

Also the concern of with all the emphasis on electric vehicles will the focus of improving the combustion engine stop? 95% of all vehicles are combustion.

[@lionheart2165]

Just drove an Aptera, supposedly will get 1,000 miles without having to charge, and a full charge will take 10 minutes, super excited for that one.

[@RichardJoashTan]

And I will buy a fully loaded F150 Lightning Platinum anyway.

[@sprockkets]

@@lionheart2165 That's not true. So far the C rate for the batteries they showed (not the ones they will actually use from Eve) is only 1, which is a 50kw rate. That means it will take at least an hour to charge their 43kw pack. That may change, but it won't be fast.

[@sprockkets]

The ford charges slow - the upcoming Chevrolet truck will charge around 250-350kw vs the Ford at 150 max. And will have a larger battery and actually tow 20k lbs in a future work truck version. This ford is actually a stop gap till the 2025 version which will be a full from the ground up EV, not a conversion.

[@DBell-ux1si]

Excellent real world comparison. I'd be curious if the EV would have made C Springs after going up the hill at Monument. 80% charge is risky out west where there's big swaths of nothing.

[@bandckirby4656]

Excellent video!! PLEASE re-run the test, same route, in January!!

[@WindyYucca]

Come down to Phoenix when its 110 plus, and give it a whirl.🤣

[@keithhh2413]

The electric truck still had another recharge to do when he got back . Also look at the time involved.

[@theastro-philosophersappre2786]

This test was definitely not an apples to apples comparison.

[@a257130]

Great comparison, except no one camps in an empty camper and unloaded truck alone. The Lightning is not ready for more than commuter vehicle status at this time. Loaded with a family and gear, 75 miles one way would be about the best you’d probably be able to expect.

[@yarpos]

more about a consistent comparison than absolute range

[@xsterawesome]

Weight doesn't really matter for a use case like this (I do think the elevation change accounted for around 10 to 20% of the utilization in this case). In the real world if you go uphill one way you're going to go be going downhill in equal amount of time to get to where you started and the regeneration in electric vehicles is around 95 to 97% efficient iirc, going up and downhill round trip and fully loading a EV barely makes a measurable difference. I did the math in another comment where someone was talking about their gas mileage I worked it out as every hour you spend charging you can save 47 to $51 an hour using their fuel economy numbers and the price of electricity and gas where I live depending on if he charged at home or on the road. Not including maintenance, how long it took them to pump gas, and the fact historically electricity constantly gets cheaper and gas is constantly getting more expensive. I don't make $47 an hour so I'd go for the electric lol. If I towed enough for it to be an issue I'd be looking toward a heavy duty truck anyway.

[@gouldbowman]

Yeah. Agreed. Still a fan... but cross country family tour vehicle, it is not. And I've had this thought for year, that EVs are more of an in-town utility option, and not to expect it to out perform gas on long distances. Charging infrastructure and range (under load) is a big issue.

[@optimusprime3484]

@@xsterawesome didn't you see the other comment in the video that calculated the ev cost more per mile once you add the weight of the trailer and efficiency goes out the window? Forget the numbers but the lightning cost more per mile to power than the ice engine when towing.

[@xsterawesome]

@@optimusprime3484 Great thing about math is we can just redo it real quick. First the incomplete cost per mile for the gas truck in the video the price they paid per gallon ($5.399) divided by the gas mileage they claimed (8.9 MPG) rounds off to $0.61 per mile. The lightning is a little more complicated, according to the Out-Of-Spec charging video we know the DC fast charging efficiency to be approximately 91.2%, multiply the usable capacity of the Ford lightning battery by the reciprocal of the efficiency of DC fast charging (the worst case scenario, charging at home will be more efficient theoretically), and you get approximately 143.64 kilowatt hours to charge the truck all the way from 0. Now they didn't say the price per kWh they paid but the most expensive DC fast charger I can find in the country is $0.31 per kWh, with the average being around $0.20 per kWh, add my home electricity costing $0.11 kWh or even less off peak time. So that means a full charge would cost between $15.8-$44.53 Now let's say you can only get 95 miles per charge like they stated in the video (I think the number would have been closer to 100 especially considering there's an extra 4 or 5% of battery they don't show you on the screen) Using those numbers that means in the electric you would pay $0.16-$0.47 per mile. But wait, there's more! In the electric you won't have to pay for oil changes, spark plugs, timing belts or transmission flushes (something you do more often if you tow a lot), also your brakes should last a lot longer. Lastly, unless there are net changes in elevation weight barely makes a measure impact. I don't know where the person who left the comment you were talking about get their engineering degree but I assure you it wasn't the same school I went to.

[@kylemccourt663]

I have owned my 7.3 F250 for 15 years and absolutely love it. It is truly the best and most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned (and I am pretty old and have owned many). I love her to death, but with diesel at $6 bucks a gallon, the cost of my daily fuel consumption is going to pay for my new Lightning. Please let it be known that I am a die hard motor head and have all kinds of toys. I have quads, trikes, dual sport bikes, vintage cars, a tractor, vintage Cub Cadets, jeeps a diesel boat and a 2 stroke boat. I also have a remote cabin 250 miles from home (out of range for the EV). Will all of this prevent me from buying my first lightning? Hell no. will it replace my F250? Hell no. But I am absoultely certain that driving around in the EV doing 0-60 in 4 seconds is going to give me at least as big a smile as 0-60 in 6.5 does in my diesel. Will one replace the other? No way, not yet. But why all the hate? I will keep my 01 f250, rather than spending 100k for a new one, and I will invest that in the EV and do all my local driving (and towing) with that and save the f250 for the long hauls. Best of both worlds. I just don't understand all the hate. Its all just too politicized. People are just too resistant to change. And I do get that it is a bunch of money just to try something out, but what's life without a little risk? I know that if I dont like mine, next years model is already going for 10K more because of the chip shortage, so I could always sell it and at very least break even. Personally I think I will love it, as I know I couldnt wipe the smile off my face the first time I drove it off the lot. It is one of the most impressive machines I have ever driven.

[@thnksno]

My boat and trailer is about 5000lbs. While my 5.7l Tundra barely scrapes 15mpg unloaded, it averaged 10.6mpg for 1100 miles towing my boat. I made it from Northern Illinois to Southwestern Missouri in a day, filling it once along the way.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Tundeerr hyber plug hybred 12.6 too 13.4 mogs

[@brentboswell1294]

One of the reasons that you're having issues with the trailers is that there's nothing in them 😂 In real life, you'd have the clean water holding tank full on the way, maybe the gray and/or black water tanks full on the way back, the back of the trailer loaded up with your toys, and a couple of hundred pounds of luggage/food in the trailer.

[@hufinnpuff3068]

They forgot that part of the "real world".

[@davidgraham2673]

Welcome to the real "real world", or "How to spend your entire vacation charging up to get where you hoped to go".

[@roadmonkeytj]

No you wouldn't don't fill your fresh water before you leave and dump your tanks before you return. Unless your boonedocking or staying somewhere that doesn't have a dumping station you can cut all that weight and save your transmission. Realistically you will add 500lbs of gear to that trailer (unless you load toys obviously) I pulled a travel trailer for 8 years while traveling for work ... New location every 2weeks-30days.

[@brentboswell1294]

@@roadmonkeytj most people who own toy haulers usually boondock it. Maybe the occasional state park with RV hookups that's friendly to the toys that you plan on using...

[@sabastiantaylor7209]

This is a very logical explanation and it makes sense but that EV distance is just going to suffer significantly with added weight. I travel once a month 500 miles to my office and I just won’t take my EV due to added time. If I drive on cruise control at a reasonable speed I can make it in one tank of gas in about 8 hours. With the ev it makes the trip an over night stay. No one tells you how long charging can take. Yes there are fast charges but most are not and everytime someone else comes to charge it’s halves your speed and doubles your charge time. I have waited 4-6 hours and that’s not acceptable. I can’t imagine that with the whole family in the car

[@MMBParent]

Great video! For a real cost comparison, though, you've got to assume the same miles driven for both vehicles. Let's use the 86 miles for the Lightning - the cost was $27 to get to a 75% charge, so assuming the same rate to get to 100% charge, the cost would be $36. For the gas-powered truck, at 8.9 mpg and $5.39/gal, the cost would be about $52. Not that big a difference and during that 45 minute charge time you might be buying food/snacks you might not buy during a quick fill-up in a gas vehicle.

[@melissachartres3219]

gasoline vehicle.

[@Yophillips3272]

After 80% to 100% it's a slow charge it takes like 2hrs. It's actually not recommended to charge to 100% or go below 20% battery life. So if you go by them rules that's only 35miles of range lol But even if you do it like they did on this test, assuming enough charging stations do you really want to wait 40minutes everytime you need fuel?

[@Johnnyjonas274]

So we’ll all get fatter while waiting for our vehicles to charge up. Another reason to stay away from EVs. 😂

[@Jakzeen]

Now let us assume $3/gal, which historically is a better number. Then the gas powered truck is ~$29 for the trip. Gas has to be >>$3/g for EV to make sense. $4/g in this example is when the cost per mile is the same.

[@brianr1899]

@@Jakzeen That's why the idiot in charge on his first day in office took steps to hyper inflate gas prices.

[@farminginaustralia628]

Gas is for a bbq we use petrol and diesel in Australia- the real test should compare it with a diesel as that’s the best for towing loads.

[@jaybones614]

Low battery anxiety is real for EV owners

[@GamingTrivia1113]

Mostly just for truck people who are towing. Evs are great for daily commuting use where you can just charge at home.

[@jay_321]

The fill up comparison doesn't include battery degradation of the BEV. That expensive battery is a wear item and fast charging it causes it to wear faster.

[@anonimxsidecas]

ICE also degrades when being used. You won't get the same fuel consumption in a new vehicle than in an old one with lots of miles on it. Also new battery technology has solved the problem with degradation with fast charging.

[@davidbeppler3032]

The fill up comparison doesn't include maintenance costs of the ICE. That expensive engine is a wear item. Driving it causes it to wear faster.

[@memmacat]

How about we redo this test when the lightning is a year old

[@MansaX]

I'd take the ultimate hands down. To add to that I'd take a gas engine over electrical too. I'd rather pay $120 to fill up within minutes opposed to sitting at a charge station for a much longer wait. Maybe the future will bring better options

[@tmonie]

I know this ins't for all cases, but most people don't drive 300+ miles in day so you'll never be sitting around waiting at a charger. When you get home for the night, you plug in and have a full tank when you wake up and the tank costs you 4$. Sure, that isn't including trips, but again, most Americans aren't taking trips every day.

[@jakekiene62]

@@nickolaslewis4416 I mean, a level 2 charger isn't exactly hard to install. Installed a 50amp plug in my garage and spent 300 on the charger itself. Most professional installs would be around 1500 depending on the length of wire needed. I set it to be full by 5 am and it doesn't even start charging until around midnight.

[@that.schamp]

@@tmonie The question isn't what trip do you take every day. The question is - do you take longer trips frequently enough to warrant owning a vehicle capable of making longer trips? For electric vehicle owners, renting a gas car for road trips is more time efficient than using an electric vehicle that they own, and rentals can be a viable solution to the range problem for people who travel a short distance on a daily basis and occasionally take longer trips. I've rented cars for road trips in the past because renting a car was more cost efficient than driving my own vehicle. Time is a cost. But I have never seen a business offer cost effective short term truck rental for 1/2 - 1 ton trucks configured to pull travel trailers, auto haulers, tractors, livestock trailers, large boats, etc. Because of liability and maintenance concerns, it is rarely even an option, and some rental agencies who offer trucks specifically exclude towing. The options that do exist are usually moving vans/trucks, are expensive, and are even less fuel efficient than a normal truck. Maybe there is a business there, but I haven't seen anybody trying to fill that need and expect it is not sustainable. Consequently, for someone who has even occasional use towing long distances, electric trucks are unlikely to be a viable option within the next 15-30 years. Now, since we own the gas/diesel truck, at what point does it become effective to *also* own an fuel efficient or electric car, and do we have the capital and income (credit) necessary to justify that additional purchase? If I could only afford to own one highway vehicle, then hands down no question it's a truck. As fleet economy rules drive up the price of tow vehicles, we are squeezed on our ability to afford the economical vehicle and are more likely to use the truck for daily use. It might be inefficient, but it's the one we got.

[@jakekiene62]

@@nickolaslewis4416 I 100% agree. I have an f150 and it ain't going anywhere. But the wife has an 80 mile commute. The electric car has been a game changer for us. I don't think electric is for one car households personally.

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Hybredd saves game money 10 too 35 % mony Sandesh ev 20 toob60 % mony saherhg oer v year hybr e d close too evs

[@mattwalske5817]

I think the proper test would have been how far can you tow in 8 or 10 hours? An actual real world test!

[@RideCamVids]

With every pickup test I see, it confirms there's no reason to replace my 2005 F150 XLT. The 4.6 V8 is bulletproof and returns very decent mpg.

[@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389]

Early 2000s were the years, we actually hunt for low mileage ones over new just because theyre simple and just run

[@gzzacordeon]

I’ve never cared for sophisticated vehicles. We still own a 2006 silverado 4.8L 270K+ miles and still going. Fuel efficiency is everything now a days but I don’t care spending a little more on fuel if I get reliability. Just my 2 cents.

[@RideCamVids]

@@gzzacordeon I hear you,,, I for one only need basic necessities like a/c, power windows, power locks and power steering. All the other fancy gizmos I have never cared for, they merely add a lot of cost to the vehicle.

[@gzzacordeon]

@@RideCamVids seems we’re on the same page. Extra cost added to the vehicle and good luck once its out of warranty.

[@RideCamVids]

@@gzzacordeon being in the auto industry for over 40 years you quickly know what and where the problem areas are with vehicles. Anything electronic will fail, its just a matter of when and not if. All these fancy touch screens and similar instrument displays will fail and when they do its very expensive. This will likely not effect the first owner who will ditch the vehicle before its four years old, but what about the second and third owners.Will the part still be available that without it, renders a usable vehicle as no more than scrap. Lets not even talk about the chasing of code gremlins around the engine management systems and the other add on features found on every modern car. These are expensive issues to track down and fix and they cause grief to the proficient technicians with scan tools on a daily basis.

[@00negative]

I would be interested to see how long it would take both trucks to tow the same type of trailer say 500-600 miles, well above both estimated ranges. You sort of touch on it in this video but I'm guessing the time difference would be immense.

[@mattg4510]

The gas truck would be done and leaving the campground before the ev truck ever gets there…

[@00negative]

@@mattg4510 Oh, I know. I was just curious what the actual time would be.

[@genxray951]

and make the truck a diesel.

[@marksimonds13]

Based on this test, the Lightning was able to travel 85 miles pulling that trailer. According to Ford's website FAQs, it takes 45 minutes for the truck to fully charge. So to go say 500 miles pulling that trailer... it would take the Lightning approximately six stops to charge up (at 45 minutes a whack) and would take about 4 1/2 hrs total. That's not including actual driving time - that's another 7 hours. So that's almost 12 hours to drive 500 miles - compared to the gas truck of one quick stop to fill up. So my guess the gas truck would be at the campground for about 5 hours before the Lightning showed up!

[@mercdragons]

My truck I can pull my 10k weight trailer 344 miles on 1 tank.

[@scottdesart275]

86 miles, amazing. Curious to see how the battery holds up. Battery degradation could be a issue

[@crankyjoe4452]

Must be great only to travel within Cali

[@Coretalless]

There is a good chance the Ford got better range on the return trip do to the decent toward Denver. Driving an EV, has a lot of different components that can effect the range. Comparing an EV truck (early development stages) to a well established ICE vehicle may not be the complete story. A true test would be done with the Silverado EV Ford Lightning, & Cybertruck pulling similar trailers and then comparing them to a Gas & Diesel truck of the same class.

[@boywhohasl1vedhascometodie469]

And that my friend is the huge problem that I think will handicap the EV as long as it has its artificial 2% in the market for the next year and a half.

[@johnblecha7434]

Exactly! Fast charge burns up cycle life by 2/3's as well. ev is a scam.

[@Coretalless]

@@johnblecha7434 source?

[@teoyamahar1639]

Keep in mind that the trailer was empty. once you add a toy in the garage and some supplies for a trip that range will drop significantly

[@rtundlt1]

I would like to see this same test setup again with a good cross country...say...1000 miles. Start with the electric and ICE trucks together and drive the posted speed limit and at the end of the 1000 trek compare the amount of time spent from start to finish. It would be interesting to compare fuel costs but even more important how much time is spent recharging and finding rechargers. I'm going to venture a guess that the electric, while more economical to drive, will eat up a considerable amount of time recharging.

[@wolfdad1512]

This test!

[@Tazer120]

Agreed, this would be a great test.

[@georgekerr8804]

When TFL tried to get to Moab they had to give up.

[@mattbrown9484]

Except drive the speed people typically drive.

[@greggcollins4215]

Driving straight through or making one or two overnight stops?

[@hypurrfpv9483]

EVs are great for commuting and around town, but long hauling still requires gas/diesel.

[@cubiczar6917]

Yeah I couldn't agree more. I like the utility of the F-150 but it is not for towing, EV's are all about efficiency and towing is never efficient.

[@Bremend]

I think hydrogen would be better for that niche. Leave the hydrocarbons for mfg, it's going to take us forever to wean us off all of the non-transportation uses of oil

[@johngalt5205]

For trucks made by legacy manufacturers, maybe, but a year ago we took my Tesla Model 3 on a trip to say goodbye to my mom, and we made the 1000 miles in 2 days, no problem. My CyberTruck TriMotor should have a battery pack ~twice the capacity of the puny one in the Ford, and much better aerodynamics .3 is the goal, vs ~.58. My back-of-the-napkin calculations show a range in the 200 mile plus range pulling that trailer.

[@amosmoses9829]

For now

[@hfreeman330]

Yes and if you're just commuting around town why need a pickup? For work and long haul I'll stick with my real truck.

[@NickBeek]

I'll keep my 2500 Ram Cummins that tows my 38' 12000lb 5th wheel 250 miles to the beach and rides around at the beach for a week on one tank of fuel. It does this with the A/C going at whatever speed I deem necessary (usually at 70 mph for most of the trip, posted limit) without worry of range or power to climb hills. I have made the trip many times and always hand calculate between 10 and 13 MPG. The electric vehicles will need to up their game a LOT before I would ever consider one. Why no one is pursuing a diesel hybrid that doesn't use batteries (Like a freight train locomotive) which is way more efficient, is totally beyond comprehension.

[@robertnichter7859]

Nickbeek, I am right with you 3500 Ram Cummins with a 35 ' 10000 5th wheel and get 17 mpg at 70 mph!!!

[@ashleynicholas2376]

And don’t forget all the passengers you probably had along. Electric trucks are nothing but a con.

[@Highgear145]

No waiting an hour to refuel

[@07bluer6s]

Thanks for this video comparison. You folks proved what Hoovie did when he towed an aluminum car trailer (not enclosed) empty and with an old antique ford automobile loaded. Lets see how long before You get a call from ford about the video.

[@hagerty1952]

14:00 Great depiction of real-time range anxiety!

[@thompt44]

The gas truck took $93 in fuel and went twice as far. So really it took $46.50. Ans Electric truck took $23 for 3/4 full, so around $31 to full. Roughly a $15 savings for electric. Not worth the time to stop for an hour every 1 1/2 hours.

[@davidsharp922]

If you don't want to get anywhere fast,go electric.

[@Memphian1000]

And if you include a sane energy policy with $2.25 gas...

[@larzakalazerath6655]

I don't know how you see a saving at all. 150 miles/ $93 fuel = $1.61 a mile vs 80 miles / $23 electric = $3.48 a mile. Even at these artificially inflated gas prices that's still over 50% savings per mile with premium fuel.

[@toddgardner6355]

@Remodeling with Robert Crabtree electric is only less expensive if you fail to consider the buy in costs, and fail to consider the cost of your time (even at minimum wage).

[@larzakalazerath6655]

@Remodeling with Robert Crabtree if i set up the formula backwards it does make electric cheaper $24/80 m = .30 cents a mile but that would also put the the fuel at $93/150 m =.62 cents that's not way cheaper considering that fuel prices right now are artificially raised by 2 to 3 times as much as what the cost of gas should be. depending were you live.

[@philipwilson5550]

You need to double the numbers for the Ford so it compares to the round trip cost of the GMC. Thanks so much for doing this. I know a lot of people have been wondering

[@sharonbraselton3135]

Gmc. Has n atral gas trucks

[@schsch2390]

Early May PBS news segment with a Rivian driving from Bay area to Sacramento found multiple EVgo stations non-functional and had to charge once with a simple 220V charger behind a random dealership. They did find one functional EVgo and the cost to fill up the battery (to the 80% limit such chargers allow) was $58, or ~$0.60 or so per kw-hr, expensive even for Cali.

[@cflwhat]

This is about as accurate of a real world comparison as one could do. Y'all killed it! Keep it up! I would be as mad as Andre 🤣. Love the real world towing tests especially with all these new electric trucks coming out.

[@tillmertyson8776]

Yeah it would be accurate but they didnt use the extended range battery on the F-150 they lied the extended range has 325 miles range thats why i ahte watching these guys they always lie

[@claytonhess5512]

Now they need to do this in a cold Northern winter. EV will flop without question.

[@wtfdoicare]

Wow, the EV can't outperform an ICE vehicle at long distance towing... literally no one is shocked by this.

[@johnoldman5877]

Great range test, this is what we need to see. I would also like to see how the Lightning does when towing a 20' Airstream, which has a much better aerodynamic profile, and also a teardrop. Keep the data coming.

[@skyknight2095]

I know everyone thinks that the airstream is so much more efficient but in reality you wouldn't see much of a difference.

[@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389]

@@skyknight2095 truck front end ends op breaking it up so much it wont matter. Teardrop on a miata is a different comparison but truck, no difference

[@larrysmith6797]

Right, because if you're stupid enough to buy an $80,000 Lighting you're certainly smart enough to shell out $100,000 for an Airstream you will use 14 days a year.

[@mikecarr1484]

Air stream weighs a fricken ton by no means are they more aerodynamic enough to make a crap of a difference. Haha. Simpleton

[@sallyplus4]

Thank you for the accurate performance test.