Driving BMW's E34 M5 Touring - One Of The Rarest M5s Made!

[@rekleif]

These were quite popular here in Norway because of the unique way our taxation on cars worked at the time. What they did was to remove the back seats and put in a divider wall and then it became a work van in the eyes of the tax collectors. It resulted in a reduction from 80-130% tax to about 28%, so a big big difference. After 10 years you could put the back seats in free of charge and change the car over to a normal vehicle. God bless and lots of love from Norway.

[@3ducs]

My maternal grandparents left Norway early in the 20th century, with good reason it seems.

[@rekleif]

@@3ducs Yeah it’s really hard to live in one of the richest countries on earth with free healthcare education a good pension and a functioning government. Unlike a country that can’t do 10 years without starting a new war…. The beauty of our nature ain’t half bad either.

[@ChosenHandle117]

@@rekleif Never being in the EU helps!

[@3ducs]

@@rekleif Very pretty country but very closely controlled. Some of us don't like that. Oil has been very good for Norway, hasn't it?

[@The_0p3r8t0r]

Always some cool bypass! Thanks for sharing

[@paulie-Gualtieri.]

Such a hamdsome car, strikes a great balance between luxury and performance.

[@stevemawer848]

Built in the days when BMW employed sighted designers for the front end.

[@wildatlanticwood]

I had a 520i E34 touring and loved it, great looking body and the sound from those 6cyl engines was unique. I cried the day I had to part with it:)

[@kevmagill5163]

Omigosh...I would love to be able to have this estate M5. The cool factor is legitimately through the roof! Thanks to whomever let you test this awesome car. Great video Jack!

[@flacjacket]

E34 was the best looking 5 series, change my mind.

[@Hans-FelixGalaniuk]

I don't want to change your mind. It's by far the best looking 5 series. Especially as a touring guy😊

[@Rey-vm9it]

if the e28s exhaust would be more to the outside of the bumper im not sure. but irl yes.

[@f.k.3762]

It's an epic car from an epic era. The steering was just right to crunch kilometers on the Autobahn at high speeds

[@hoost3056]

It's not overhyped. All the German manufacturers lost the plot after the 2000s and cheapened the product while adding tech.

[@babelhuber3449]

Except for Porsche! The others had 3 phases: 1.) We don't earn money, we need to be more profitable 2.) We are swimming in money, but quality went down the toilet and customers are complaining 3.) We have reached a good compromise between quality and profits, but we have no clue why people buy all these models we have released that have nothing to do with our brand

[@georgebettiol8338]

Agree. The increased use of poor quality 'breaky-breaky' plastics, especially located within the hot turbo-charged engine bay has certainly driven down the quality of the German cars - very sad.

[@simondalessandro6391]

I had this car in 94 and loved every minute of it. Drove from Marbella to Budapest in it and it was pure joy, especially on the autobahns.

[@Tagora2664]

I had an early E34 M5 3.6 and it was a marvellous car. Lovely chassis and no driver aids, except ABS. Was so much fun. I agree with your views on the steering, the only other thing i could fault was it's lack of torque at lower RPM. But wind it up and it went like a stabbed rat!

[@altblechasyl_cs2093]

Lack of torque ? 😂

[@maxgr7723]

Well 525ix has rack an pinion steering 😉

[@richardprice7763]

I had a 1992 E34 535i Sport and no other car I've had since then had comparable build quality, not as quick as the M5 obviously but boy did I have fun in it as a 22 year old! It's the only car I miss...

[@adriancoppola3729]

Had a 535 Sport before my M5. Loved it but the M5 had 50% more power - 330bhp vs 220 and it really made a big difference. Great cars. 😊

[@groovydutchman7257]

Thank you for doing yet another great review on this wonderful chassis. As an E34 M5 3.6 and 525i (M50) owner, I can confirm that the overall driving experience of these old beasts is cerntainly special.

[@jamesbeck1600]

Picked mine up in 2021 (not touring) and I still grin ear to ear when I see it. It was my daily car for 2 years, really got to know it, but wised up and picked up a Toyota for the daily and this one is for the perfect weather days. Asolutely amazing car... you can use all of it on the road and not have your license taken away, it's the right amount of power and feel. I'm planning to do a full polish and really get into restoring it soon, which really highlights to me just how PERFECT this review car's condition is! That motor looks almost new! As does everything else, so cool.

[@renesaxer5828]

I got a face-lift E34 with the 1,8l and autobox. It's not quick, it's not sporty and I absolutely love it to pieces.

[@AndrewBingham-y4h]

I watch quite a few of these You Tube car channels from the likes of Samcrac, Hoovie, and Ratarossa to the great Harry and I have to say that this channel by Jack is the one I currently most look forward to. Keep up the good work Jack and thanks for the entertainment.

[@russellhammond4373]

This car, in a wagon, is about perfect. Never came to Australia as it is left hand drive. Love the sound of that engine.

[@simonhodgetts6530]

Overhyped or not, I love this generation of 5 series - the subtle update from the original in terms of styling, then with the estate, even a subtle nod to the Triumph 2500 estate - Michelotti was a design consultant to BMW at around the same time that he was doing his wonderful work for Triumph, and had a hand in the Neue Klasse design language. I know this is a much later car, and designed by Ercole Spada - but you can see some 2500 estate influences in the E34……honest! The interior is peak BMW, when their driver focus dashboard design was at its zenith - I always liked the switchgear and instruments from this era - high quality, clear, concise and classy. Having a BMW in the era in which this launched was a very special thing - you really had to be well healed to afford one - the majority of buyers went for more mainstream manufacturers. Contrast with today, when it seems that every other car on the road is a Beemer.

[@michaelsimpson3548]

From a time when BMW build quality cars…..as always a very enthusiastic video. Thank you

[@freerkderuiter8822]

I love these Our neighbors in the marina had an E34 M5 touring in Daytona Violet. One of my friends had two E34 M5's sedans and my late father in law had an E34 M5 saloon as well. It was the last car he bought and owned it until he passed away. It's been ages since I last sat in one. Thank you for this trip down memory lane.

[@psircos]

You just can't argue with the way the Germans do(did) things. You can't really compare a 164 in particular with an e34 m5. You're driving an L plate flagship, that has suspension modes. Take the 156 gta what, several year later. Only 250hp, no adaptive suspension, not as well built, FWD(!) This was an awesome automobile for its time, no question. Great review of a classic. Absolutely criminal they didn't do a RHD version

[@jonntischnabel]

I once owned an e34 alpina b10. Fantastic car, drove amazing, was built amazing. I loved that era of bmw, the e30, e34, and e32, all looked so similar, especially the interiors. ❤

[@chaoringmeister]

Oh I would love to have one of these. I can’t believe people didn’t buy them in bigger numbers. Of the time only the RS2 truly could compare in practical performance and even then it was a smaller platform, though it would be hilarious if they made an estate version of the Lotus Carlton.

[@MontytheThird]

Great that you’ve reviewed an E34 again. I love my 540i Touring, it’s a manual version and is still a very capable car. I agree that the steering isn’t great but as a complete package it’s amazing.

[@1maico1]

Looks to be in truly exceptional condition. I had the cooking version back in the day, it was scrapped at 180k. It's replacement an E39 530 Touring met the same fate with terminal rust in both inner sills and tailgate.

[@konradmichalski758]

I own a 1995 525i E34 with a manual for a few years now. It’s a weekend car but boy do I enjoy the drive every time I pull it out from the garage. There is something about the cars from that era. Last year I took it for a long trip to Salzburg in Austria from Birmingham in the UK, with a compulsory stop in Munich and it did turn heads. I got quite a few thumbs up on the German Autobahn.

[@adamdahlberg8572]

A super cool and very rare car! First real sport estate? Came out before the RS2. It got a 6-speed in 1994 (last year).

[@leeh9420]

The ///M cars of that era were titans of their day, and legends to look at fondly. That's a lot of car for the function and luxury. I'd love to have one.

[@davidsherrick898]

My dream super sedans of the 90s BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz E500 and the Lotus Carlton. The M5 wagon was a looker for a family hauler! Great review as always. After the last Alfa video I subscribed!

[@JohnPirkis]

Just love your reviews Jack. So honest, no bullshit, and fantastic trips down memory lane and beyond. Great content! 🚘🔥💫👏👏👏👏

[@aluminati9918]

Great video, Jack! Always adored BMWs of this era. In addition to the cars mentioned, the Audi 200 Avant Turbo Quattro (wagon ) had a bit of the same “wagon-racer” feel. Very luxurious and capable, although not quite the same horsepower. I was a passenger in it occasionally, and remember it could run effortlessly for hours on the Autobahn in excess of 200kph. Keep the great vids coming!

[@steelbear4887]

Love the video, love all your videos - but about competetive cars: Are you deliberately avoiding Audi? What about the RS2 Avant, S2 Saloon, S2 Avant, S4 Saloon, S4 Avant, S4 4.2 Saloon, S4 4.2 Avant?… (all of those where 6-speed btw)

[@johnmac8084]

Great review of a great car Jack. I had a BMW E39 528 and it's still the best driving car I've owned. I also owned an Audi A6 and drove a Merc E Class from the same period (which I felt were the direct competitors for the 5 series) and they just weren't nearly as good to drive, even if the specs were similar on paper.

[@paulcruse]

I had an E49 528 for 20 years! The car was a legend. It had 236,000 miles on it when I sold it. I even put an Xbox in the boot with screens in the back for my son 😀

[@EinKerl3554]

It is a difficult choice E34 or E39 I've had both. For myself I think the E34 is the better overall car but the rack and pinion steering used on inline 6 E39s is definitely better than the E34s recirculating ball system. I currently have a '94 3.6l M5 which is used for traveling out of town, it consumes distances at speed effortlessly.

[@michaelkim3432]

My god!! The interior of that car must've been restored recently, it looks absolutely brand new! BMW never brought the E34 M5 Touring to the US, tho some did make it over eventually. Would love to grab one after seeing your drive Jack! Thanks!

[@eze8970]

Thanks Jack, glad it lived up to your expectations, looked odd having no badge on the steering wheel. See you found some new roads to! 🙏🙏

[@RobertDonnyJr-c4e]

The 90’s for road cars was amazing imo. Enough modern tech for comfort and daily use. But before all the restrictions came in . They didn’t have to be styled around safety as much , Cars were all much lighter which was great 👍 But I do appreciate modern cars performance is wild now

[@MrORLY]

Peak BMW and peak M5. The E39 M5 is a better car in every way - apart from giving you the fizz. An E39 M5 feels like a really fast 540i. I own an E34 540i and my Dad used to have an E34 M5 3.8 6 speed, the E34 M5 feels like a completely different car to the 540i. The S38 Straight 6 is INFINITELY more special than the S62.

[@andrewpreston4127]

I owned a 1989 E34 535i Sport for a while in the early nineties. I found it very fast, efficient, and so so Teutonic ( leather seats very firm. ). It just didn't stir my soul in the way that a Mk1 XJ6 that I had owned many years prior, or a Carlton 3 litre GSI that I also had for a while. I think that 'characterless' sums up my view of the E34.

[@ciarand2823]

@2:30 ... the lotus carlton... you're welcome 😂

[@kiwiwifi]

I’d have one if I ever had the opportunity. Thanks for making this episode Zio Jack

[@malvessidrums]

Il nostro proprio zio Jack!

[@longtailgt]

Very nice video of a brilliant car! Absolutely love the way the E34 M5 looks! One of BMW's best saloon car designs imo. Also, I would like to mention, Jack, that you forgot the main rival of the M5 saloon in period: the Lotus Carlton. Both straight 6 engines, both RWD, both executive-size 4 door saloons... although the Carlton is much rarer and more expensive. And for the video subject - the M5 Touring, its rival would be the Audi RS 2 Avant.

[@altblechasyl_cs2093]

RS2 ? Nope... Audi 80 is a lower category than the 5 Series...

[@lunabouch]

That WAS the Ultimate Driving Machine!

[@woodrimcars2324]

Great video on a Fantastic BMW. I was a seriel BMW owner for many years but sold my last one in 2014 just don't like the new stuff you're a younger man so possibly see things differently. Been in the Mototrade for 45 years and the Best Van I ever had was a E34 touring 525i.

[@stephenricketts7764]

I like you Jack had forgotten about this Touring, when you said they were only made in LHD then I remembered, I agree with you that these were a good car and well made. Thanks for the review Jack and BTW nice to have different scenery for a change :) ! 👍👍

[@dantheman7357]

Hi Jack, very nice car and the exhaust sound of that M5 is intoxicating.

[@mariojurman4113]

Beside all the cars you have mentioned beside the E34 M5 - there is also another car which almost never gets mentioned nowhere. I have been already driving 3 Limousines and 2 Statio Wagons of it and our well known Top Gear presenter in person has done the test back then. It is the Mitsubishi Sigma 3.0 V6- 24 V with 205 HP !

[@skyll4141]

the only competition was the Volvo 850 turbo estate around that time. both awesome cars, the T5-R I might add

[@andrewfwallace4582]

Brilliant review, Jack, top quality, you look so relaxed since selling a few cars. 😊

[@ryanmccormick2150]

What a fantastic car! I don't think you can really beat a Hot estate..... just so cool for some reason Jack 👍

[@tadficuscactus]

Beautiful and elegant looking car with a great engine. One of the all time great straight sixes.

[@sebastiend.5335]

Really understated looks but a brilliant car and engine. Thanks for another great video. Greetings from the Netherlands

[@adriancoppola3729]

Loved my 1991 M5 - stunning car and surprisingly quick. Saw a corrected 170 plus mph on the Autobahn but it was still pulling as it approached the rev limit in top. Odd that the facelift cars had a 6 speed box as well as the slightly bigger 3.6, not 3.5 litre engine as you said, yet the one you tested is still a 5 speed. Ah well. They were indeed the last hand built M cars, where the body was shipped to the M car plant and the M bits fitted taking a week and one person to do the job. It was said it was possible to look closely at each car and tell who built it! Dunno if it’s true but a nice story. Lovely car to steer on the throttle in the wet too despite its size.

[@simonansell3241]

What a car! Had a 3.6 sedan in black and one in blue. Both fantastic. Audi RS2 was its main rival. Would love to see a test on one of those Jack. I have one and it’s very quick.

[@gregs8685]

Unreal coincidence but driving around today I saw an e34 M5 sedan and 10 minutes later I saw a nice e34 wagon (not an M5). Now this video!

[@laskos02]

Just on time with Jason Cammisa video

[@juleswilko]

Such a tough call between the E34 and E39 being the best ever five series… Owned both and still miss them.

[@jtreut]

E28 was also groundbreaking for its time. Bulletproof drive train that could last hundreds of thousands of miles.

[@BanjoLuke1]

The extraordinary thing about the E34 (and other BMW models from around that time) is that almost the entire range were rapid cars. The (non-M) petrol sixes were really jolly fast. Even some of the diesel's were rapid on the public highway. I cannot imagine how much faster again an M5 would be. Really.... any 6-cylinder E34 would get you from one end of the country to the other, rapidly, unruffled and cosseted in an absurdly quick time. The M5 must have been beyond belief.

[@steadfastandyx4947]

I'm not bored by your content. I'm bored with you tube advert interuptions.

[@Number27]

Sorry… KZbin decides where to put them!

[@georgebettiol8338]

Recommend that you install an ad blocker.

[@billgardyne7328]

I found your observations re lack of feel interesting. I owned three E4s, a 535, 535iS, and an M5, and always remarked as to how much feel the M5 had, and especially over the other iterations. Perhaps more through one's backside rather than the helm. Yes, the quality was way better than any of the later cars; my E39 540 had no feel at all through the steering and spent A LOT of time in the workshop, where the others had up to 160k km and nothing but regular servicing. I've tried many times but I just can't fall in love with any since then.

[@aschult4]

A terrific looking example! I still drive a Touring (luckily not an M5 due to high potential for speeding tickets!) as a daily and it is great in today''s traffic. I find the steering one of the best features of the car, but then I don't drive it at crazy speeds through tight corners ;-). By the way, I also once had a Maserati Biturbo 425. While it had Italian style, as an engineering product it was hopeless. Apart from the build quality issue, steering and acceleration required very special skills!

[@Tinker2006]

They are great machines, and the last of the straight six in the range topper 5 series - The E39 is even better IMO You forgot a few competitors, the biggest one is half German and English, the Lotus Carlton as you were in the 3,8 and not 3,6 and the Bentley Turbo R😂 Also you are mixing Maserati's up the 430 is a 3 series competitor, not a 5 - a QP would be a sort of better rival (though it is a tiny bit heavier and bigger, but it has a 4,9l V8) Anyway, keep up the good work, love those reviews

[@Sorted7]

You should try an e34 540 6 speed touring. They are really good. Lots of low down grunt from the v8 where the m5 is a bit more up top of the rev range.

[@michaelstocklin9080]

i was just at car week in Monterey California, and the only car people were excited about was an E34 wagon. it was badged as an M5, but we didn't get them here so who knows what it was. kind of crazy.

[@bispal]

Love those! However BMW raced a modified 12V version from the 635CSi, the M30. All the racing 635's were 12V and built for Group 2 racing and using the M30 naturally aspirated straight-six making 361 horsepower. The M1 pro car used an M88/1 and was highly modified to 464bhp, The E34 M5 uses an S38, which was developed from the M88/3 from the M635CSi, itself a modified M88 from the M1 road car. So the engine in the E34, never went racing, AFAIK. I had an E34 touring, not M5, it was one of my most favourite cars ever, IF NOT my favourite. And an M5 should have a straight 6 cyl engine, not a V8 IMHO. Great review :-)

[@jabberwockytdi8901]

In general late 80's and early 90's german cars were that last generation of cars that weren't overly complicated in terms of engine technology or electronic systems , and also the last cars designed and developed before the balance of engineering vs. cost swung firmly in favour of the bean counters.

[@gilesl]

Stunning example and a dream car

[@TheBTG88]

That’s a very clean example.

[@TomHallam-yh1xe]

I have a 2005 e61 550i manual Jack if you fancy a drive of that anytime, it might not have an “M” badge but it’s a proper wolf in sheep’s clothing

[@tadficuscactus]

I love the M5s with the straight six.

[@markwalton8644]

I remember John Barker(Performance Car/ Evo) loved these, especially with a twist of Lock, and always intrigued me. The Cars closest rival to the M5 was the Jag XJR with it's 4.0 Str6 Supercharged. I'd love to see a Comparison with that!

[@johnireland1629]

Why do I still resist the alure of BMW. As soon as you showed the Alfa 164, I knew. With all the Alfa's "flaws," it has so much more style.

[@pclayton5063]

Style is for boulevard driving. They don't call BMW's "The Ultimate DRIVING Machine" for no good reason. That being said I did own a little ALFA Romeo 1300 GT Junior for a couple of years which was a close second in driving fun to my 93 M5.

[@samueljohnclark]

That car is immaculate! Also, engine has far more life than modern engines which have far more plastic componentry to oxidise and fail

[@bobmcl2406]

I am hopelessly and terminally addicted to station wagons (estates, touring, breaks, whatever you want to call them) so this car ticks all the boxes for me. And I suspect you could keep it running for a long time, with reasonable costs. Cheers from Canada.

[@idonjohnson6999]

Beautiful time capsule.

[@IsderaCommendatore]

The main competitor for the M5 and 500E was 377 bhp Lotus Carlton exacly what was built for.

[@Bamsebrakar2011]

In looking for competitors to the M5 at the time, esp. as station wagons. The obvious one you did not mention was the Lancia Thema 8.32 from 1988 on. It was only available as a sedan, although Gianni Agnelli (naturally) had a one-off station wagon version. To my knowledge, the W124 Mercedes-Benz 500E (built by Porsche, as far as I remember) was never available as a station wagon. And this is some 30 years before Porsche built one (Taycan Turismo), unless you tongue-in-cheek choose to call the 924/928/944 a wagon.

[@cornishrider]

No not over hyped as I was in my 20's then and lucky enough to drive many BMWs of this period and they really were superb compared to their contemporaries!

[@nickb3968]

Great review and great car, thanks Jack.

[@jblack5323]

Fast estate classics had alot of kudos, then down the line it became saturated as does everything. The market for an M5 touring was very small then but they still produced it.

[@martinclapton2724]

Highly competent car, as expected. They tend to stick “M” badges on all sorts these BMs , including diesels . I know I’m biased, but I would go for the ALFA 164 , yes it has torque steer , particularly if you floor from a standstill, but it’s the Busso over the M power for me. Early 1990s , you forgot the Lancia Thema 16v turbo or even the 8:32 for that matter, and again FWD but the Italians get the nod for me . Another you forgot, is the Jaguar XJ40 , Sport versions or the V12 variant , possibility slightly less sporting as Auto box only, but how about the rare XJR variant?

[@malvessidrums]

ahh the Thema LX and the 164. We have similar tastes :)

[@enigmatwist6548]

My favourite BMW bar the e39 M5 and the Alpina B10

[@davidbee9563]

I am curious if Alpina built any touring versions of the Biturbo six. Likely some with the V8 B10. A few years later, they did build the 3 series touring with a V8.

[@nab5018]

I don't think they did. But that Biturbo 6 saloon is really special

[@e28forever30]

I stumbled on a rare Nurburgring edition, the 3.8, a couple of months ago. Marvellous car, and it was for sale. Sadly no funds were available..😅

[@Anirossa]

I own two E34 sedans. I refuse to ever sell either, as took me a few to end up with good examples. How they are designed and put together was enough to push me over the into studing mech. engineering, and I absolutely love it. My E34s have the M20 engine and it is not fast, but they are exactly how I want them. Simple, mechanical, well handeling, over built and comfortable with German quality, but without all the unecesary bs that gets kicked to the bin when entropy does its thing.

[@155stw]

The front grille looks like the non-face lifted version. So if unmodified it’s a 3.6 with 311 bhp? But this particular car’s engine looks like the updated B38 so I guess it’s a 3.8 340bhp. This is one of the last very handsome BMWs made.

[@richardparkinson9556]

All factory Tourings were 3.8's. The face lifts with the wider grill were 6 speed with bigger brakes and M parallel wheels, pre face lift were 5 speed with the throwing star wheels.

[@fredrik3863]

Beautiful car and a great video👌 Can you review a BMW E39 M5?

[@Yodagave]

What a great car - would love to have one some day (would settle for an e34 540 wagon)

[@Tinovodanovic]

What a beautiful car.

[@davidspropaganda]

I had an M5 3.8 a few decades ago with the Nurburgring pack which came standard with Servotronic assisted steering. I had a 535i alongside it which had the standard power steering; it was so much better. Jack - You will know this one had Servotronic if you were able to turn the wheel with one finger at low speeds and if it retained a similar slightly unnatural lightness at all speeds. Servotronic was the one thing that let down a brilliant car. I was reading about the system recently and I think its possible to simply disconnect it leaving you with the standard power steering. I'd love to find out if thats true. Interestingly, the Servotronic was a million times better than the electric power steering we have in a 240i today. Servotronic was consistently fluid and intuitive. It just felt unnatural.

[@autiomaaelokuva-forsakenla2337]

A good looking car with nice colour

[@keithposter5543]

A splendid machine. Much want

[@jabberwockytdi8901]

The competition of the time has either been forgotten because they didn't quite cut it and mostly not sold in same numbers, or in the case of the 500E made in such tiny numbers that not really a competitor for most customers of the time,

[@henryrodier8024]

My wife and I would one E 34 Touring manual would be fabulous here in the States

[@Mitsume.63]

How about the Audi RS2? Looks like it is a valid contender.

[@Potate_potate]

Cleanest car I’ve ever seen

[@honda4185]

I remember the 3.8 e34 M5 salong had 6 gears.. why not this estate..or did no estate had 6 gears? Great and awsome video!👍

[@richardparkinson9556]

Pre facelift with the narrow grill were 5 speed, post facelift with the wider grill were 6 speed and had larger M Parallel wheels and brakes. All Tourings were 3.8.

[@Whatshisname346]

Oh if I had the cash, an E34 3.8 M5 touring 6 speed would be too off my list. A lot of M5 aficionados are pretty rough on the e34 but for me it’s the sweet spot, big enough and modern enough to be a great everyday classic. Thanks for this…… now where’s that Euromillions ticket I had in my jeans last week?

[@henryjohn2218]

hi will you make a review of a hindustan ambassador or austin A50

[@michaelpegasiou4531]

Mega car when they had pretty front ends and creamy linear power ❤

[@fransb8543]

An absolute holy grail for me but absolutely unobtainable and I wouldn't dare to daily this, given how exceedingly rare they are (not to mention fuel costs and parts availability/ prices...).

[@llamatr0n]

Lovely car, had it as my daily for a good few years and glad I owned one... but it was the fuel costs and the parts/servicing costs that were the main reason I sold it... parts were crazy prices. When I look at how rare they are now and how much they're worth now it's a shame I sold it.

[@rolfsvensson5777]

Very nice SUV! Looks good and i guess drives great!