Nutrition Myths in the Vegan Community | Ginny Messina | The Proof Podcast EP 217

[@NutritionMadeSimple]

this was excellent, Ginny sets a great example

[@raiitaly]

Vegans are the problem, not the solution....

[@cherrobbs2810]

I appreciate Ms. Messina's forthrightness and her kindness. She shows a spirit of generosity regarding those in the vegan world who provide information that isn't necessarily free of intentional bias and therefore sometimes propagates nutritional myths. Thank you.

[@TangoMasterclassCom]

From my personal experience: as a lifelong vegetarian (since age 4: no meat, fish, or other animals or 'seafood'), I only ate cheese daily and I did not drink milk (disgusting taste) and I sometimes ate yoghurt (did not like the taste either) and I only ate egg sometimes because I thought I needed it to stay healthy as a vegetarian. When I ditched the cheese 6 years ago, and started to eat fully plant based, my health improved so much. I used to have chronic sore throat and mucus, that has completely gone. I noticed my cardiovascular endurance improved so much without any training (I noticed the difference in my dance performances). So for me, there was a huge difference in health just ditching the only animal product that I was still eating as a vegetarian (cheese). And I was not even eating much cheese, just about 30 grams per day.

[@pdsnpsnldlqnop3330]

Wow, you beat me to it. I went vegetarian aged six and I also thought we needed some eggs and dairy for mystery reasons. Rennet in cheese was the talking point, not fat or anything like that. I too cut the cord with the animal products and the mucous went. I cycle everywhere and I never get the runny nose that I used to get. I am now wondering about the colds that used to plague me in my teenage years and whether it was cycling in the cold or the dairy that gave me this. Who gave you permission to become veggie aged four? Please explain!

[@TangoMasterclassCom]

@@pdsnpsnldlqnop3330 so amazing to hear! And who gave you permission to be vegetarian at age six? My parents accepted my wish to never eat meat again. I liked the taste sausage and meats on bread, but I never wanted to eat it again when I found out it was made of a dead animal. The rest of the family kept eating meat, but it was never the centre of the meal. A few years after me, one of my sisters also went vegetarian when she was nine, and now she and her husband are vegan, and they raise their sons vegan.

[@jeffreywp]

Would be interesting to have Brenda Davis on your show. Only complaint about this episode is that I wish Ginny had the list of questions ahead of time so she could be more informative in her responses. I know you have studies in the show notes, but I found some of her responses to be wishy-washy and (seemingly) more opinion-based. I know Ginny is very knowledgeable but overall I didn’t find many of her responses particularly compelling. Of course, this is just my take on being a new listener.

[@matthewthehawk1066]

An excellent example of a intelligent person using the evidence and proper judgement. Very good podcast.

[@leannepollock4654]

Interesting conversation, Simon. I really appreciate your style as a podcast host, how you keep it conversational and ask questions to create all kinds of space for your guest to contribute. I also appreciate that Ginny Messina said what she knew for sure from science and what she doesn’t (yet) know for sure. It makes her credible in my opinion. Thank you.

[@tanyasydney2235]

It's so refreshing to listen to someone who eschews dogma and presents a balanced viewpoint. Kudos to Ginny.

[@pattylow1]

I’m Asian so when I stopped consuming dairy my sinus congestion decreased immensely. Also, when I stopped consuming oil my total cholesterol got to below 150 (it took about 3 years). Really enjoyed this interview. I appreciated Ginny’s comment about being skeptical of all studies (PCRM or industry sponsored). Thanks!

[@andreawisner7358]

I'd like to see a debate between her and Dr. Greger on some of these issues.

[@rachshirley552]

Great conversation! Really enjoyed the level-headed and wealth of knowledge from Ginny - such a much needed discussion within the plant-based community. Thanks Simon for bringing her to your platform 🙂

[@Laura-je2uw]

I really liked ginnya take on oils. I watch a lot of whole food plant based youtubers who use no isolated oils at all (and are also very low salt). When they sautee their food in water they always make the point that it makes no difference and tastes the same same as sauteed in oil. I tested this several timea and there is a huge, huge difference in taste between water or oil sauteeing your veggies - the same is true for salads - massaging your salad with a quarter avocado or just simply adding a nice vinaigrette makes a world of a difference in taste and is a real dealbraker for me on continuing an otherwise mainly whole food plant based diet - no need to eat bland food you do not enjoy. I am currently also studying dan buettners work on the blue zones which i find very fascinating. I try to include a lot of his suggested recipes. Btw when they looked at the longevity of the loma linda adventist communities the subpopulation that was pescatarian outlives the vegan subpopulation, which i found an interesting point. His work on "blue zoning" american cities and thereby drastically reducing the rates of chronic diseases is also very fascinating for me.

[@MT-sq3jo]

Thank you for bringing up the point that vegan do not live longer when compared with pescatarian. In addition to vitamin B-12 and vitamin D, I’m a firm believer of long chain omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA for optimal health.

[@Test-eb9bj]

May I add: I turned vegan more than 6 years ago with the goal to prevent cancer. I had no weight issues what so ever but was focused on nutrient dense foods. Hence I eliminated oil in favour of more fatty micronutrients from Seeds, nuts, tahini, cashew butter & cashew yogurt (for dressings!!) and sauces. That worked well for me and I was happy about the extra micronutrients from these fatty foods. Although my taste buds adjusted I got TIRED of spending so much time to get my holy trinity of onions, garlic & ginger properly and flavourfully caramelised and it was still not the same. So this year I decided to use 1 tblsp ((my max limit per day) when starting frying - on low to medium heat only. For flavour reasons. I can handle it. But as a candidate of Esselstyn’s patients or a person with severe inflammatory or autoimmune issues I would try without oil and see where it gets me.

[@Laura-je2uw]

@@Test-eb9bj thank you for sharing. I also almost always use garlic, ginger and onion in my stir fries♥️

[@Andrew-ug2cy]

Those vegans are eating burgers while pescatarians are not .

[@nicolesapphire3696]

I can handle water sautéing most vegetables but not tofu or potatoes, the oil absolutely helps and it doesn’t even take that much, even as little a teaspoon can make a huge difference. I’ve honestly stopped watching most of the whole food cooking shows, they are too restrictive, some are seriously lacking proper information on protein and I can’t stand hearing the inaccurate claim “on a whole foods / starch based diet you don’t need to count calories you can eat as much as you want”. I frequently hear this from followers of the starch solution, they avoid oil because it’s “too high in calories” but then say if you’re still hungry after your starch solution plate you can have more potatoes, hmmm, something is wrong with their math, because eating two extra cups of potatoes (400 calories) to avoid eating 1 tablespoon of oil (100ish calories) seems wrong 🤣 I love potatoes and think they are healthy even good for people trying to loose weight but they aren’t calorie free either just because they are a whole food. WFPB has good aspects but also has misrepresentations.

[@carolwong9279]

This is so common sense. I consume a whole food plant based diet. But people are always shocked when I say you don't have to be 100% plant based to be healthy. Thank you or this video.

[@KenGaskins-nm3gx]

I love her candor. We need more people in all camps like this in my opinion.. Great questioning too.

[@cassandrabennett9446]

Great point that Ginny made about all science having the potential for bias, though a keen eye and some healthy scepticism tends to bring the truth out in most cases. Loved the interview Simon 👍

[@marikehoffman]

Just listened to this podcast on Deezer. Informative as are any of your podcasts. I love how you guys really use the science to deliver unbiased information. Even with the difficult things that us vegans don’t always want to hear. Keep up the good work Simon. I would love to hear a conversation with Dr Michael Greger.

[@lindsaytoussaint]

This is so needed thank you 🙏🏾 Ginny, you dropped so many mics I lost count. Thank you for amplifying her voice. And just to add my unsolicited two cents: some of us vegans need to unlearn a lot, get the message straight, and keep the mythology out. All the wild misinformation/exaggeration serves no one and makes it more difficult to get the animal advocacy and planetary health message across. Plant based diets can hold their own with the science “minus the hyperbole” as you say.

[@nomandad2000]

A good sign that you aren’t hearing B.S. is when the presenter isn’t afraid to admit or share information that demonstrates adverse effects/cons of the subject matter being discussed.

[@natalieamore8195]

The plant based diet is not always the cure all for everyone but it’s certainly the most powerful . I haven’t seen any hospital full of patients lacking in protein deficiency but I have seen many patients in the hospital with heart disease ,diabetes and obesity.

[@mikeylorene]

The diseases you mention are all caused by plants- sugar and wheat.

[@hawaiionmymind1338]

Another great guest to have on. I love how realistic she is. Thank you both for passion for achievable health.

[@MT-sq3jo]

Well done! It’s refreshing to have someone who’s vegan by choice to dispel urban myths and beliefs that are simply not true or not based on existing scientific knowledge. Vegan can be a very healthy choice when done right, but that’s not the only way to live a healthy life. Many Blue zones folks are omnivores and they seem to do better than most advocates of various diets.

[@angelam211]

I really love her perspective on this - very refreshing. I really feel focusing on the nutrition itself is frequently overlooked. Wonderful podcast!

[@plantbasedposer]

I wish there was more information about kids on vegan and plant based diets. I'm specifically interested in the idea of IgF1 and stimulating that for kids to grow. Vegan diets are known for their ability to lower IgF1, but for kids this isn't good for growth. I'm surprised no one is talking about this. Would love to hear more expert opinions on this topic.

[@mikafoxx2717]

The big question to ask, is that a good thing? Provided you get all the nutrients, protein and calories to grow. Feeding cows hormones to grow faster makes them probably much less healthy than not, and I wonder how much overlap there is. Obviously kids shouldn't be bone thin or anything and unfortunately some vegan parents have terrible quality of nutrition. Oreos are vegan, after all

[@skippy6462]

Didn't know of Ginny Messina before and I'm new to your channel too so thanks for this episode. Gives me lots to think about.

[@sandybayes]

A lot of clarity in this interview. There is just so much information out there that it is welcoming to have time spent clarifying those bits of information where there are too many sides that muddle the truth. Thank you !

[@Zenjohnny]

Veganism and wfpb are two separate passions of mine. They do overlap but not as much as others think. I'm opening my mind about adding small amounts of oil and I'm definitely off the low fat movement, opting for eating nuts and seeds with every meal.

[@nicolesapphire3696]

I’ve been vegan near to 20 years, I became interested in WFPB for a bit to help loose weight. I also went back to adding oil and it has had no negative effects on my weight. The WFPB doctors present oil as adding massive amounts of calories but what they don’t explain or they sort of distort the info, is that it really depends on how much oil. If you follow the recommended serving size oil is not actually adding that massive amount of calories, all we need to do is consume it at reasonable amounts. 1 tablespoons of oil is about 100 calories so in the scope of a 2000 calorie diet 1-2 tablespoons is not having a huge impact calorie wise.

[@barbettecaravaggio7675]

@@nicolesapphire3696 it's not just the oil and weight issue, a lot of the plant based influencers imply that ALL oils promote heart disease. Which, as Ginny points out, is not actually supported by science.

[@nicolesapphire3696]

@@barbettecaravaggio7675 very true, they tend to link oil to multiple health issues, even diabetes.

[@nicolesapphire3696]

@@barbettecaravaggio7675 totally agree, I don’t necessarily entirely blame “influencers” because they are getting that info from plant based doctors and the influencers have bought into the false claims made by some plant based doctors that there is a sort of “conspiracy” to conceal this “medical” information. Dr. John McDougall is particularly bad for acting like there is an agenda against him, brags about being kicked out of medical conferences, this is a giant red flag any doctor acting like there is some sort of conspiracy is one we need to be wary of.

[@JWB671]

Excess energy consumption, from any sources, is most people’s problem.

[@greensmoothieparty]

As adults get more and more clogged up with ischemia, chronic hypoxia becomes a serious concern, especially related to increased blood viscosity for hours after each high fat meal. Lack of oxygen and nutrients to our body tissues served by the smaller circulation pathways often cause the first signs of deterioration and disease (eyes, ears, legs, back, brain, etc.).

[@metalrunner4398]

Btw. is there any connection between calcium fortified plant milks and CVD? I have read about all the studies connecting calcium supplements and increased risk. Any thoughts?

[@Zenjohnny]

The seventh day Adventist vegans are some of the healthiest studied people in the world. They eat 80% of their calories from wfpb while 20% from mock meats, oil, sugar etc. So there is a place for non whole foods in the diet, just make sure to have the bulk of calories from whole foods.

[@bethra.flowers]

For me, the main goal of low fat (20 grams & under 50 grams) is only a temporary strategy to reverse metabolic syndrome or insulin resistance and diabetes. Once I am sustainably within a healthy range I will no longer actively resist the healthy fats. Again this is only a temporary strategy. ❤

[@MemoryAmethyst]

I have listened to thousands of hours of health related videos. This was hands down the best I’ve listened to. It is so refreshing to listen to someone outside of the usual clusterphock of Vegangelicals. Well done.

[@chuckleezodiac24]

Vegangelicals! stealing it...

[@sisterursuline]

This was such a helpful conversation and I love discovering fellow Aussies on YT. Subscribed!

[@yogiyoda]

I enjoyed this interview. Ginny seems very open minded to the evidence and I think being open to the truth will lead to healthier outcomes for both vegans and their movement in the long-term

[@arvidlystnur4827]

Excellent presentation with enlightening info. You stated the myth that avoiding supplements isn't necessary if one falsely believes their diet is varied. Some people avoid processed foods and think eating three or four clean foods is sufficient. They could suffer from vitamin deficiencies that could be obtained from fortified junk food.

[@bernadettebecher4689]

Really enjoyed this interview. Thank you for your time and valueable information.

[@cadupradoo]

Regarding the dairy impacts, I wanted to hear more about dairy x IGF-1!

[@fromeveryting29]

Me too! :)

[@talks2squirrels953]

Excellent conversation with a legend and sensible resource. love it.

[@brendasullivan4095]

Thank you so much for this'❤ I have been vegan 11 yrs. I started following starc h solution 2 years ago thinking it was best I gained 15 pounds and my Ldl cholesterol shot up and I became hypoglycemic. So this interview came at a great time for me to find.Thank you so much for all the great content Simon!!

[@ScotCampbellwindowpainter]

Plus look at Dr. McDougall and his wife Mary. Not the picture of health

[@atxchef4240]

Super informative! I think I must have had low expectations based on the title, but I’m so glad I listened and I’m going to share this one. I hope you can interview Dr. Greger someday.

[@Emanuelnx]

Great podcast, Simon. You’re absolutely smashing it with these! ✌️ I listened to you on the a little more good podcast yesterday on my walk, that was a great one as well!

[@k.h.6991]

Ginny makes many great points. On fats (nuts, seeds and a bit of oil), for instance. But on processed foods it's like she's not read the labels, or faced up to the obesity epidemic. Most plant-based meats aren't merely high in salt, they're also high in saturated fat. And this includes kids.

[@nomandad2000]

The B12 argument: I tell people that animals are given B12 supplements to meet their needs too. So people who eat animals are still meeting B12 needs through supplementation, but it goes into the animal first, and THEN into your body…

[@uncomonsense]

Supplementation is not the reason animal meat contains B12. The human species has a longer history than supplementation.

[@jaybolt100]

Really😂? So who gives supplements to fish in the ocean? Fish contains good amounts of b12…

[@peterz53]

Excellent discussion. But on Vitamin D3, have to disagree - 600 IU supplementation is likely to be woefully low. But test first, and then after supplementing, if you supplement. I live in Florida and make a point of getting sun daily (I walk 5 miles a day outside in addition) and after testing and trying different dose I find that it take 5000 IU/d to get into the 40 to 50 ng/ml range. 1000 IU didn't move the dial. People are highly variable though so test. A lot of professionals suggest that 40 to 6o ng/ml is a good range to shoot for. Be aware that it takes a month or two to reach new equilibrium blood levels once adding a supplement of D3.

[@kriswalker3275]

I really like her perspective because for me as a newer 100% plant based person I find the more strict mantras not completely correct and pretty shaming. As a nutritionist I know certain amount of fat is important in your diet and salt has a lot of important minerals and flavor in it. I don't add a ton of oil on food but at the same time I do get oil no matter what in things like nuts, avocado and tempeh. I've never been someone to over use salt other then addictive foods like chips in my past. I just think the more restrictive it becomes the harder it's to stay committed. Also with a lot of dysfunction eating patterns in the past or in general in society it can set you up for failure with all the rules.

[@CarlYota]

There’s a difference between truth and prescription though. Just because most spoiled modern Americans can’t resist all the modern junk food doesn’t mean we start believing it’s healthy. It can simultaneously be recognized as killing us and also recognized as extremely difficult to abstain from. It can be true that WFPB is strictly correct and also nearly impossible for most modern people to follow. In which case a more tempered version is necessary as a practical prescription. But we still have to be able to speak about truth whether it’s easy or not. You would find it easy to strictly be SOS free if we put you back in the Stone Age. I bet you wouldn’t struggle with junk food cravings one bit on a world where that food didn’t exist. So it’s pretty clear what the truth is and yet equally clear that most people won’t stop eating themselves to death in the modern environment. One does not negate the other. And not all WFPB doctors demand that you be super strict. When you actually talk to Dr. Gregor or Dr. Lisle they will be the first to tell you that the best you can do is still much better than what you were doing. And we can eat some cake without needing to believe it’s healthy if you find that you can’t resist the cake.

[@srherda]

Another great science based episode. I love that Ginny is honest that being vegan is not the be all end all diet , but states why it is better for the planet and gives you info to optimize it. She also points out how less meat and more plants is healthier.

[@JW4REnvironment]

Well said! I agree plant based is better for the planet by cutting greenhouse gas pollution and also by cutting the terrible water pollution that huge feedlots for beef, pigs, and chickens create. It also means we don't need to invade and destroy natural habitats just to raise beef or grow soybeans to feed the beef. It will be great to keep more natural ecosystems intact and available to the wild animals that are threatened by all our habitat destruction caused by people relying on meat production. At the same time, our diets are more healthful without so much saturated fat from animals. :)

[@sandradings8660]

Thank you so much, I appreciate how neutral you both are.

[@espinosalexis]

Great interview! Thanks a lot! So I guess that you Simon supplement with B12, Omega 3 Oils, Vegan protein powders. Do you have a public description of your feeding + exercise protocol? Do you have a public description of your supplements? I'm also interested if you supplement with glycine, taurine, nac, collagen? Thanks!

[@ItsJordaninnit]

Collagen supplements aren’t vegan as far as I’m aware. So I don’t think he’ll supplement them. I also doubt Simon takes taurine (creatine more likely)

[@espinosalexis]

@@ItsJordaninnit Thanks. It would be great to know his full protocol in an episode and in text.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

'Onions sauteed in chopped walnuts' - I laughed out loud at that one. :-)

[@lmdeboom]

But sauteeing in water or broth is not that bad at all.

[@freedomforestlife]

Another awesome educational poscast - thank you - always enjoy your casts and the gentle yet clear way you interview with an open mind - always take a lot away from them feeling convident that the info is very un-bias... even the subjects that my own believes try to steer me away from... these I now the ones I make myself listen to/watch, as I continue to learn that there is usually at least 2 sides to every story and to be open minded we need to hear them all to form a truer picture... The diversity of your discussions are a great inspriation in this - thank you for what you do so well 🙏✌🌿

[@alane3983]

The foundation for me being plant-based is fracturing more each month. Thanks Simon. I guess I’ll just go on statins and start eating cheese again. I really miss cheese. But seriously, I am having a hard time getting past Collin Campbell’s research around animal protein and cancer. I am disillusioned about the recent news of well known long term plant-based influencers getting supposedly preventable cancers or heart attacks. What seemed, to me, to be an unshakable truth has been shaken violently recently. The core is still whole, but I have made some adjustments. For instance, I use a little oil now. I eat nuts and seeds now. I eat some processed food, though maybe not the best choices. Unlike most people, maintaining weight has been my biggest problem and I can’t do it on a pure whole food diet. I guess my satiety feedback mechanism works too well.

[@mertdog2353]

Are you surprised that some vegans will get ill? Did you think we were immune lol

[@petermogyoros]

I think I will be adding this podcast to my subscription list.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@stay_cee]

It’s always interesting to me when people are surprised that supplements are needed or recommended. If you are eliminating groups of food , you likely can become deficient in something - as a vegan I’m not offended by this - I’m currently healthier than all of my meat/ dairy eating friends and family. They need and take supplements as well. We thankfully now have knowledge about specific vitamins and minerals that people didn’t have in the past when they didn’t live nearly as long. Personally find nothing wrong with saving some lives and using some clean plant based protein supplements instead ❤

[@emilybarry9410]

🙏 for a FANTASTIC and INFORMATIVE episode Simon! I was pleasantly surprise to hear that Ginny supplements with protein powder, as I have been considering this myself lately. Historically, as a vegan, I was not concerned with hitting my protein needs. However, last year I began supplementing with EAAs (along with creatine) during my resistance training sessions, and found that it really helped with my stamina and recovery. Over the past few weeks, I have increasingly been thinking about experimenting with adding a protein powder as well after my sessions. I am curious to hear if you consume protein powder, and, if so, what form/brand you recommend? Thanks again for another educational addition to my Monday evening💜🤗🌱

[@Laura-je2uw]

IMHO i really do not think that you need to supplement with protein powders. I would highly suggest that you read dan buettners books on the blue zones in which he analyzed the nutrition of the longest living populations in debth. All of them are eating rather low amounts of protein and the proteins they do consume are in form of whole foods, mainly plant based. There is more and more evidence that a high consumption of proteins is directly linked to chronic diseases and a shortened lifeapan. Vegans who are older (60+ years) might consider adding protein powders if they do not consume enough through whole foods as it might help them to maintain their muscle mass which is important to prevent falls/accidents leading to bone fractures. Other than that i would not recommend supplementing isolated proteins.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

Any unbiased mythbusting gets a thumbs up from me. 👍

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thank you for the video! Small question one the last myth: I agree that funded research is not by definition worthless, but I did miss a mention about the "underground lake" which is the notion that funded studies that find negative results (for the investors) are not published as often as other independent studies. This would lead to the totality of the available evidence to lean towards the side that benefits the big investors as negative studies are kept in the "underground lake". This would be a relevant issue for meta-analyses. Do you see this potential effect in your field and how do you counter it?

[@adamd9418]

I think Ginny's comment about people in the vegan camp still being committed to sharing information when it doesn't agree with their perspective is key... (and this is from someone who has been WFPB 99% vegan for 11+ years).

[@krakkungen]

There is no such thing as 99% Vegan. Veganism is a philosophy, not a diet. Either you're 100% Vegan, or you're not Vegan at all. (let's see if my comment gets deleted again, if it does I'll just keep posting it)

[@davidmoser8901]

@@krakkungen Vegan is also used for a diet and there the diet can be 100% vegan or jsut 90% vegan. But I agree if you use the word vegan as a lifestyle and philosphy then it's another story. That's why it makes more sense to talk about whole food plant based then vegan 🙂

[@carolyn4407]

@@krakkungen he might say 99% because no one is perfect and people make mistakes or might consume something unintentionally. He may be aiming for 100% but might just be being realistic by saying 99%. One time at work I got their veggie rice, even read the ingredients to make sure it was vegan. I ate it and thought it tasted different, so went back to the cafeteria and when the manager investigated it turns out the guy in the kitchen that day made it with chicken broth, because that's how they make it in his home and he "knows" it tastes better that way. My point is that most of us are doing our best but none of us are perfect.

[@chuckleezodiac24]

@@krakkungen right on, bro. spoken like a True Vegan!

[@karentodd2678]

Great show. I’ve already been a fan of Ginny and Jack Norris

[@darrellhorner500]

GINNY MESSINA IS A "REMARKABLY HONEST PERSON"! I ADMIRE HER HONESTY SO MUCH! THIS WAS A GREAT INTERVIEW AND A MUCH NEEDED INTERVIEW!

[@nicolakestel-lifestyleceo4040]

Thank you Simon and Ginny for such an informative episode. Supplementing has been my major dilemma since adopting a vegan lifestyle 🍃

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Our pleasure!

[@RahulRaj-vg4jb]

This was great, could you have a conversation with Dr. Avi bitterman on organic vegan food and myths around it

[@PlantChompers]

Loved this. 👏

[@doctork1708]

Laurel’s Kitchen, one of my first cookbooks and had it for years. Wish I still did. Also Moosehead.

[@cherylatkins7600]

Fantastic interview. Thank you both!

[@cherylatkins7600]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Big fan of your show

[@leniolesch896]

Great episode. So relatable and honest. Please do an episode about Eating Disorder, ED recovery and the latest science. That would be so great.

[@leniolesch896]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill can’t wait to listen to that episode:))

[@terrycameron9728]

Hi Simon I’m really enjoying your very thoughtful interviews, 😊

[@runningfree1973]

So refreshing to hear someone with a well balanced, commonsense approach to these issues and whose arguments are tempered with a healthy dose of realism. One of the things that turned me off the WFPB diet was the disingenuous and antiscientific claims of many of its leading proponents especially as they relate to the controversy surrounding what we are evolutionary designed to eat. That, and the often smug, sanctimonious attitudes and cult-like aspects of the movement in general.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

I suspect many are frustrated with the sniping that has gone on for years re: a spot of olive oil, more protein when older, white potatoes, nuts, w3 oil, 80/10/10, and a host of other points. The differing views are largely delivered one at a time without any debate. Mcdougall appears on a show, a week later Fuhrman is on and contradicts the previous information and this goes on and on and on.

[@chuckleezodiac24]

@@panes840 McDougall Diet: pro-starch, anti-oils, anti-nuts, seeds & avocados. everyone needs a gimmick to push their particular programs.

[@natalieamore8195]

Confused about a few things. So, the fat you eat is not the fat you wear…. What are the nutrient values in oil ? I don’t believe as humans we can find any nutrient value in eating animals that are often being fed GMO foods , and also being given numerous antibiotics to keep them from spreading diseases. Another concern we should be thinking about when eating animals is the fact that they live In their own urine and feces until they die. Animals also are being chewed on a daily basis by other animals who are spreading diseases like mosquitoes,flies and ticks. 🦠💉Not a good choice of healthy protein in my opinion .

[@katherinefiori]

I appreciate the discussion about vegan raw food diet, would love to listen more about this topic 🙏🤍

[@barryth]

Very surprised that Ms Messina, a lifelong nutritionalist, wasn’t convinced of the effectiveness of epa and dha. Perhaps she should watch your video with Bill Davis! Seems she has a “blind spot” here. Of course a healthy young person can get some epa/dha from plant sources like evening primrose and borage (gla) but not in your typical vegetables. (algae extracts are now available.?) Would one say Sardines have minuscule if not 0 mercury.

[@alfilho9126]

Great interview, great channel.

[@metalrunner4398]

I was pushing my religious plant based views on myself and starving my body until I read Ginny and Jack’s “Vegan for life”. Now I am happy healthy ultra endurance vegan for years 😃

[@metalrunner4398]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill thank you, Rich Roll, Ginny, Neal Barnard for doing amazing work of defending science in the era where quacks encourage people to raise their LDL and apoB without any evidence and for promoting vegan lifestyle 🌱😎

[@barbettecaravaggio7675]

Ginny is so great, a voice of reason and honestly, regarding that, a beacon of light in a sea of social media influencers who keep spouting extreme unscientific claims... I for one, as a woman, am very grateful that Ginny mentioned the low fat vegan diet not necessarily being the best diet, because you may miss some importent food groups and nutrients... i lost my menstrual cycle on a low fat vegan diet, and only got it back once i started upping my plant fat intake. The low fat sphere is very focussed on weight loss/ heart disease reversal... but is totally missing the mark when it comes to other aspects of health, like for example fertility. The extremely low fat diet you put someone on who has been eating steak his whole life and as a consequence now may have clogged arteries should NOT be applied to an otherwise healthy female of child baring age!!! It is dangerous advice. NUANCE. And clearly, there is a very large difference between animal based fats and plant fats, especially when comparing saturated fats to mono and poly unsaturated fats. The different kinds of fat should not all be lumped together (pardon the mental image there haha)... we KNOW that the healthy fats from for example avocados or walnuts cannot be compared to the fats in steak or butter.

[@HidingFromFate]

Fair points. 👍

[@angelikaharabin3628]

I believe that seafood, especially oily fish has heath benefits but I feel we are depleting the the oceans, that there are rogue ships that are literally vacuuming up the fish for fish oil, and that we are contributing to extinction of species - the latest being possibly king salmon which Whole Foods is still selling.Then there is starving competing predators, including orcas and sea eagles , and of course climate change. That’s really the impetus for me

[@skippy6462]

How about plant based folk offer more advice and information about the health issues experienced by vegans? For example my husband suffers gout if he eats too many lentils. Where can I get reliable information about this? He also has a umbilical hernia and reflux. His blood pressure is slightly higher than normal too. We're WFPB, non drinkers.

[@kriss_s89]

Loved this episode! Thank you, Simon!

[@rachelmcgill8143]

Excellent Interview and Guest - Thank You! ❤

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@dpm3740]

Great video, thanks so much!!!

[@nomandad2000]

This came at the perfect time. Just went vegan, and am on the fence about continuing.

[@staceykersting705]

The LAST thing I ever thought I'd do is go carnivore! I tried it for 2 DAYS only. I used it as an elimination die.. My chronic back pain disappeared in 24 hrs! Now, I'm careful about which plants I eat, and I avoid grains almost entirely. IMO, it's a wonderful experiment. U may like to try one or 2 days. previously, I was a vegetarian for 30 yrs.

[@ln3812]

How comes? Maybe the change was too drastic, I transitioned over 2-3 years slowly from omnivore to vegan. The reasons for me are beyond nutrition since there are so many rational ethical and environmental arguments. As I said however I dont think a 180 Degree turn in diet is practicable and sustainable for the majority of people.

[@ln3812]

@@panes840 Good point and I totally agree with the urgency. Just think some changes can need time, varying individually. Supplied with enough information, social acceptance, good recipes, selection in grocery stores and restaurants I would've done mine way faster.

[@ln3812]

@@panes840 Nice to hear, feel free to share them once ready 😊

[@ln3812]

@@panes840 I was referring to the course you said your‘re putting together^^

[@ChessMasterNate]

Two other nutrients vegans will not get are: Glucosamine, and L-Carnosine (not to be confused with L-Carnitine). These are both great. Glucosamine confers a 22% lower risk of cardiovascular death, an 18% lower risk of coronary heart disease and a 9% lower risk of stroke. Glucosamine reduced glucose oxidation rates by 43% in an animal model. Carnosine scavenges reactive oxygen species (ROS) as well as alpha-beta unsaturated aldehydes created by peroxidation of fatty acid cell membranes during oxidative stress. Carnosine can oppose glycation, and it can chelate divalent metal ions. And there are good reasons to think that Carnosine is beneficial for eyes, brain, and GI tract. I also think the ethical/environmental arguments against eating animals are full of gaping holes, but that will keep to another day. Most vegetarians are eating more healthy than omnivores. However, small additions could make substantial improvements: Lacto, ovo, pesco, plus supplements like Glucosamine, Chondroitin, L-Carnosine, Taurine and a few others.

[@lessequoias]

Hi Simon, great interview! I am surprised that Brenda Davis is not included on Ginny's list of top vegan resources. Is there a reason for this ?

[@ChrisUK70]

Great show very insightful I loved the honesty.

[@JW4REnvironment]

Many thanks to Simon for bringing Ms. Messina's insights on myths related to plant based eating. I am grateful to her for shining light on some myths such as that humans are only herbivores based on our evolutionary heritage. I learned in high school and college that the length of our intestines is intermediate lying between short intestines of carnivores and the longer intestines of carnivores, just like our teeth. So I am glad to see this mentioned to clarify our evolutionary background as omnivores. I completely agree that the point is that even if we ARE omnivores by biology, we can survive and thrive on plant based eating with careful monitoring of B12, iodine, protein, and other nutrient levels. I feel much better eating plant-based not just for health but also for the lower greenhouse gas/global climate crisis/environmental impacts but also for the reduction in harm to our neighbors, the pigs, chicken, fish, and beef of the world! By eating plant based, we leave more room for the natural ecosystems whose services like flood control that we depend on.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

I don't agree that growing massive amounts of plants instead of PROPERLY growing animal food sources is better for our Earth. We need the hooved animals to put the carbon back in the ground as opposed to chemical and GMO plant farming stripping it out.

[@v.a.n.e.]

It's always amusing to hear claims that a plant-only diet is sufficient on its own, only to hear in the next sentence that supplementation is a must. I'm glad this video helps to dispel this ugly myth.

[@skippy6462]

When my SIL changed her diet from meat diet to vegan her cholesterol started to reduce. She was supposed to be on statins. Over 5 years overall her levels are the lowest but will increase if she eats vegan junk food. Also our blood pressures go up if we eat junk. We're vegan for the animals. We eat small amounts of junk but we don't trive on it so we try to avoid it.

[@Starchaser63]

As far as I'm aware, veganism is firstly about ethics and the welfare of Animals before human nutrition and survival. I was told in school in biology that humans primarily eat for survival and to reproduce offspring . I was told by a work colleague she eats vegan firstly for the Animals and secondly for her own survival 😢. I did thank her for her honesty...

[@Barbara-ch3qf]

I agree with your work colleague, veganism is an attempt, always imperfect, to live a more ethical life. Originally I became a vegetarian after I read Frances Moore Lappe’s Diet for a Small Planet (I know: sooo last century!). That dovetailed with my discomfort with recognizing what was on my plate. I was 12 y/o. As I got older, I moved to veganism recognizing the harm to other sentient creatures and the environment caused by industrial farming. Now, in addition, I think about this amazing planet, this home we have that sustains our lives, and I feel we don’t adequately appreciate this gift of home and life. We are careless. Finally, now that im getting old, I wonder what kind of home we will leave for future generations. I know food isn’t the only issue but I do think it’s all connected.

[@Starchaser63]

@@Barbara-ch3qf i agree with some of your response. I suppose Vegans eat from an emotional point whereas non vegans eat from a Biological survival stance. All adult vegans today were raised on animal nutrition then chose to become vegan after puberty. There are no second generation vegans around today. We can be vegans because we have large supermarkets and a supply of fruit and vegetables are at hand. In the wild for example were we have to collect and find our own foods then any tribe or community would be wiped out of the Gene pool within a generation or two because there would not be enough fruit, vegetables, grains etc to provide enough calories for adults and developing babies, however killing an animal would provide enough nutrition for the community to produce future generations. No remote tribes today have ever naturally adopted a meatless diet in their habitat as they would starve because they don't have shopping malls in the remote jungle region ... WFPB is a better option in terms of optimum nutrition as based on whole real food whereas vegans can have a vegan junk foods diet of vegan cheese, cakes, pizza, sweets etc which is not real food...no toddler ever naturally chooses to be vegan and eat fruit and vegetables, grains etc..veganism should only be adopted once the adults are past puberty or full adults development..in terms of reproductive organs and development the vegan diet would erase itself out of the gene pool anyway so it has a built in mechanism of self destruction due to poor development of hormones and reproductive organs with each generation

[@ianmills9659]

I did a whole food home cooked vegetarian towards vegan diet for three years, felt great the first year but then got chronic indigestion and even skinnier, also started developing cavities. I got a shock when a painful tooth felt dramatically better the day after I ate red meat (while visiting my folks) and continued to improve while I had meat. The dentist found two deep cavities that needed a root canal but I went off of all grain and ( I used to only eat whole gluten free grains) I managed to arrest the decay and pain now three months onwards on meat, veg and fruit. Wish I could go back to being vegetarian but even long soaked and well cooked beans give me indigestion.

[@methanial73]

The problem is that what we've been told and what reality is are two different things. A low fat diet is shown to increase mortality in older folks. So the LDL, HDL theory might be bad for some people.

[@methanial73]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I know, but it seemed suggested that a low HDL and LDL meant living longer in the video.

[@gracewang5534]

dairy does cause inflammation for some population if has lactose intolerance issue.

[@krakatoapinatubo6362]

It is so annoying when Westerners/Europeans ignore this fact. Most of the world's people are lactose intolerant.

[@saliksayyar9793]

There is a difference between whole plant based diet and vegan. Veganism is a belief system and not very healthy, whole plant based diet is based on experience and science. Plant based advocates call for B12 and vit D3. Without excess protein, less calcium is needed

[@skippy6462]

What about diary and eczema? Lactose intolerance? Colic? Acne I know too many people that suffer from dairy and experience improvement when they stopped milk and cheese. Like she says all diets have to be appropriately planned. Most people including me who was on a meat and dairy diet didn't know this and it's only when I became a vegan that I learned about nutrition and supplements. I feel now that my health, based on Dr. Greger's work, is the best I've ever felt. I didn't realise how much I was suffering previously. Watching Earthlings 2011 was distressing but changed my life and Greger 2016 changed the quality. Saying that eating a little bit of fish or cheese a day is the same as saying smoking 1 cigarette a day might be very little risk but why risk it at all? Greger promotes eating nuts, seeds, avocados.

[@ritacastanhito2223]

Loved it!!!! Great information, reasonable and supportive

[@krakatoapinatubo6362]

This was a very interesting presentation. What bothered me is that the myths were so narrowly tailored, that the answers didn't really address the larger issues people really want to know.

[@tomandersen7343]

As you know, I'm absolutely not pro vegan :) I share vegans view on industrial animal production - it's horrible! Thank you both for this objective and informing dialog about veganism and nutritional health!

[@azdhan]

Great video. I think for some people who have an unrealistic expectation that they will never ever encounter heatlth issues on a vegan or Mediterranean diet, even when these health issues were not the direct result of their diet, will jump diet camps and take up another diet that could prove much more dangerous long term.

[@Crazydoglady.]

THIS WAS GREAT 👍🏻!!🎉

[@patriciawallace14]

Excellent conversation I needed to hear ❤❤❤

[@jakobw135]

What do you think of Dr Michael Greger's assertion, that veganism is the best for overall health, according to the meta evidence?

[@jakobw135]

Then why don't you interview him?

[@chuckleezodiac24]

Dr. Michael Greger? the guy who was inducted into the Quack Asylum by Alan Flanagan & Danny Lennon on episode 401 of their podcast? sounds legit.

[@jakobw135]

@@chuckleezodiac24 You mean inducted into the quack asylum by those who have personal experience? LIL!

[@williamquemuel7824]

If you have Thalassemia minor and are Lactose Intolerant plus have food sensitivities, you have to go vegan, mostly whole plant foods.(no processed vegan foods except plant oils).

[@jiashuliu9067]

I eat mackerels and I don’t feel bad coz they are wild fishes that eat other fishes too right?

[@educational-101]

This is great Simon. The supplementation argument is super great. Reminds me of a carnivore telling me because I supplement my diet is flawed. I let him know my life has been supplemented with omega 3's due to my stomach turning allergy like reaction to all things from the ocean. Fish, seaweed etc I just can't eat. Foods with ALA weren't available when I was young. So now, is my diet "flawed" or is it just "smartly supplemented?"

[@ggcruise]

As a US citizen, I would note that all US folks take supplements ... D added to milk, folate and other B vitamins added to flour & bread products, iodine added to salt, and probably others I am not thinking of at the moment. I don't bother to point this out to anyone attacking my choice of diet, but I think it quietly to myself.

[@murraybrockway6540]

Oils muck up digestion in some of us in ways that fat in whole food doesn't. Calorie for calorie the whole food fat is not 100% absorbed because of how well we chew. Canola oil packed relish ruined my ability to workout at the gym, where olive oil would not have.

[@veganandlovingit]

Has Ginny heard of Dr David Sinclair's research in regard to vegan diets and health/longevity? He seems to think it is currently scientific to say that along with being a pescatarian, veganism is the other healthiest lifestyle, if done well. He also, strongly promotes olive oil.