OB-GYNs Confront Legal Impact of Abortion Bans | NYT News

[@kappanilo]

Hi everyone. I'm Nilo Tabrizy. Thanks so much for watching. Kassie Bracken and I reported this story. If you have any questions about our reporting, the local laws we looked at or anything else on this topic, let us know in the comments and we'll respond.

[@johannrajan6357]

How hard and how long is for females to fight for abortion in front of court? What does the penalty for the offense look like?

[@johannrajan6357]

What are your projections for number of deaths due to late abortions or health complications for next 5 years? If the numbers don't significantly shoot up, would you change the stance on abortion?

[@ЛёхаХаритонов-е2щ]

PERUSE read, message.

[@tonyascancook]

Killing babies is wrong

[@depow5217]

@@tonyascancook Forcing your religious beliefs on everyone is much worse.

[@tanner_]

“you’re not dying yet-,” as an ER provider this statement haunts me, bc when it is actually that moment when you are dying, as in the moment where docs in banned abortion states can perform legislatively permitted abortions, the woman is already septic, already hemorrhagic and the woman’s life is rarely salvageable and this then costs hundreds of thousands of critical care dollars (often tax payer dollars) vs what was an outpatient procedure. SCOTUS has lost its legitimacy and is an embarrassment to the judicial branch and US constitution and law. SCOTUS has the blood of these women on their hands and history will not forget this

[@zebrafinch12]

In poland women simply aren't getting pregnant now. The banning does damage

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

Don't be silly

[@hahahaaha7208]

Hahaha, they wanted more workers and women simply said no.

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

The damage of not allowing women to stop being pregnant is that women aren't getting pregnant??? I know pro-abortion logic is extrmely suspect at the best of time, this this seems to be downright stupidity, right?

[@BrandonMunsonakaMrYoutuber]

That's the point ... don't get pregnant if you don't want a baby

[@texaswildflower7535]

@@BrandonMunsonakaMrKZbinr or get the abortion pill and responsibly abort!!

[@amandadougherty6615]

I’m an attorney in PA and have an OBGyN friend with whom I’ve been having these discussions, and we have talked about it we should do something, especially considering the legislative effort to put a constitutional amendment to the people next year some time. I unfortunately didn’t get real reproductive education where I grew up, so a lot of what she told me about abortions and pregnancy I didn’t even know. So I’m really thankful to everyone involved in producing this piece of reporting. I so badly want people to understand the actual consequences of what is going to happen to women and their families. Women will die. Families will be left without mothers and daughters, women who want children will be left without uteruses, and families will be bankrupted because women’s health will be allowed to deteriorate until they are sick enough, near death enough, to get care, causing longer hospital stays and greater long-term complications that will need ongoing medical care.

[@Raymondgogolf]

Hi Amanda I hope my comment didn't sound as a form of privacy invasion your comment tells of a wonderful woman with a beautiful heart which led me to comment I don't normally write in the comment section but I think you deserve this complement. If you don’t mind can we be friends? Thanks God bless you….🌹🌹🌹🌹

[@icameisaws4829]

My OB/GYN is a conservative, but she is very vocal about this topic. She felt so bad for me when she had to explain that I had to carry a baby with no life to term or until my body decided it was time to expel. On paper it looked like I had a normal healthy pregnancy, but medically- there was no life. I could not get admitted for the D&C until that was conveyed in my labs. Due to my body holding on to it for so long, it has had a negative impact on my fertility.

[@energymaven7537]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Your OB/Gyn should have referred you out of state for the abortion to protect your fertility. She also should have explained that your "labs" are only part of the diagnostic picture, as she was clearly able to diagnose a non-viable pregnancy via other tools. She knew the consequences of carrying it to term. That is malpractice.

[@MakaykayLAMB]

Holy crap!!!! I’m so friggin sorry omg!!!!!

[@HitGirl20]

@Jennie A. your comment is not supportive of the original poster. You're free to have an opinion, but please don't post it at someone who has already been through a lot.

[@wb7606]

I'm so sorry hun! I wish more people really stoped to think about how even tho they may see or know or even seen a birth that it's not the same as experiencing it yourself. You can tell someone what you went thru but they will ever truly know how it feels. That's where people are getting mixed up. I keep hearing people talk about me like they know me and it's extremely frustrating. How could someone I don't know possibly know how my pregnancy is going or how my health is? How is it ok for them to make those kind of decisions for me when it could easily result in death? But then call women seeking an abortion a murder. It makes no sense. I wish you the best hun!!! Hugs!!!

[@wb7606]

@Jennie A. Fetal fatal abnormalities happen, the water breaks to soon, hemmoraging starts, the heartbeat stops, labour too early. Still Borns. There are reasons for late term abortions however the last three months it's very rare and only to save the mother's life. Usually the baby is already dieing or dead. If it's that late in pregnancy usually the women just gives birth to a dead or dieing baby. But that should be her choice not the world's. No women should be forced to see her dead baby if she doesn't want to. Or forced to do anything in her pregnancy for that matter. and when it's around 4 or 5 or 6 months it's typically because of abnormalities that will cause death before or shortly minutes to hrs after birth. Some fatal fetal abnormalities actually cause the baby to suffer while it does live for a few min to hrs after with pain and discomfort even bleeding. I wouldn't force anyone to go thru that.

[@obfuscatethecode5696]

Abortion is a private medical decision that should be between the pregnant person and the doctor. That’s it. There needs to be a *REAL* separation of church and state.

[@DjMaxi005]

So the person inside the woman's body doesn't have a right to live? Ok, cool, I don't know what to tell you but I doesn't need a church to know this is just plain wrong

[@energymaven7537]

Exactly. Religious definitions of life should not enter the patient-doctor discussion.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

@@DjMaxi005 Children with various fatal cancers deserve to live, but they still die, regardless of expensive medical intervention and sincere prayer. Fetuses without an entire brain, or otherwise doomed to death (and a very painful death if left to birth) have every right to live a good eighty years, but they won't. Leaving a mother to die horribly and unnecessarily along with the unborn child is willfully cruel.

[@magasaremooks]

@@DjMaxi005 yes. Take your religious beliefs and keep them to yourself. Stop trying to groom the rest of us.

[@bakersdirtydozen]

@@DjMaxi005 So if a mother of five is at serious risk during her preganancy you're fine with putting the mothers life on the line and leaving those kids without a mother? We can play this game all day long but in the end it should be up to the mother and her Doctor... not you, not me.

[@vickygraham2444]

"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.

[@DjMaxi005]

Lol, nice try, but clear projection from your side lady 😎 stop killing unborn people

[@kimberlygarrett1485]

I don't think Jesus would be pro abortion

[@mylittleelectron6606]

Yeah, of course those people don't believe what they say. I mean, their perspective is obviously driven by every horrible thing your mind can come up with after a good long while sitting down and thinking about it really hard. What a burden you must feel to be so pure of heart and morally uncompromised living amongst such corrupt individuals. No need to question your own motives, because it's clearly everyone else who has the problem.

[@stephaniec.4384]

This is one of the most insightful pieces of writing I've seen about abortion

[@guardtheham1233]

shut up bot

[@nilsp9426]

Thank you to all the doctors in this video speaking up against this madness. Your voices are the most important in this debate, because you are experts. Yet the debate is constantly directed away from you towards outraged politicians. I hope you manage to keep your sanity in this chaos, your job is and will stay invaluable! At the same time it should be humbling for every politician to see how reasonable the debate could be. We need more people with articulate expert opinions like yours in the public debate - and politics! Otherwise populism will eat away at us.

[@fouroverseven7799]

Like it said in the video, this problem is exaggerated. Most women who actually need a medically-necessary abortion are not being denied one. This video is simply meant to confuse the issue.

[@nilsp9426]

@@fouroverseven7799 What evidence is your claim based on? By whom was it told to you and for which reason? How do you know better than the practitioners? The health care experts? The women?

[@ianalan4367]

@nils - I appreciate the compassion you offer. How are doctors experts in the right to life though? That is the subject. Should an unborn human being have the same right to life as you and I. Not sure how a medical degree makes you an expert on that aspect.

[@texaswildflower7535]

@@fouroverseven7799 then block this page

[@texaswildflower7535]

@@fouroverseven7799 it's completely necessary to every woman who wants one

[@kateuhler7803]

They shouldn't have to. Women should NOT be second class citizens in the USA

[@54032Zepol]

C'mon ladies let's go out and vote!!

[@firstlast8258]

Vote early vote often

[@vecter]

@UC6wi1b4dYa64FltWJ083VsA lol a guy who puts his army rank in his name...

[@SenorCinema]

You’re a man playing for the wrong side you pc bro

[@PlanetSharkFoot]

It's sickening that we have so many politicians who put their efforts into being popular with the conservative side that they pander to rather than having the general public's best interests in mind. It doesn't seem to be a requirement to be educated when running for office or to create laws based on facts and reality, not religious beliefs and feelings. Healthcare decisions have no business being in their hands. This gross violation of human rights needs to be stopped.

[@magasaremooks]

@@DisinfoWatch lame strawman argument.

[@VictorPaixao4fun]

That's a good analysis but I would recommend going deeper than only blaming politicians. Yes, they are greedy, they would do whatever for power but behind them, we see plenty of brainless people asking for them to "save lives". It's we (the crowd) that should open our minds and see what we are really trying to achieve, until we don't do that, they will keep making bills for abortion or maybe a 1-mile high wall on the border.

[@forallofme4441]

What's truly sickening is the bloodlust of abortion supporters. And for the most innocent of us too. Disgusting.

[@LipSyncLover]

@@DisinfoWatch or, heres an idea, people can have conversations about what they would do if they get pregnant from sleeping together. and if you're not in agreement about what you would do? don't sleep with them.

[@DriveInFreak]

@@DisinfoWatch Again: I'll make a deal with you. You'll get a say in the matter after you push a cantaloupe out of your balloon knot.

[@camdenp23]

shout out to all the women being affected by this. no one has the right to tell you what you can and cant do with your body. everyone get out and vote!

[@guardtheham1233]

What about the babies body?

[@guardtheham1233]

@UC_MMkJLXqU-MSoqirXFw5-g Lol a body is forming in a womb and it's called a baby! And inborn baby by 10 weeks is fully developed and looks like a human well because it is one haha Therefore as scientists say in the matters of biology, life begins at conception because the definition of life is a celled body continuously growing, never mentions the location either. Also known as the human species. Also known as an zygote, embryo, fetus. All terms used in a developing baby inside the womb.

[@camdenp23]

@@guardtheham1233 so a women having a stillborn baby or is told by doctors that there is gonna be life threatening complications, a full grown human being is supposed to disregard and risk there own mental and physical health so short sighted people like you can feel more comfortable? or risk there own life for a baby that is not developed yet, or so your religious agenda can continue? get a grip

[@guardtheham1233]

@@camdenp23 Nope, if the baby is going to die or is dead then it's not considered an abortion. Most cases like this don't happen. Were talking less then 1 percent.

[@camdenp23]

@@guardtheham1233 i think your confused between a missed abortion and an elective abortion but it is still considered an abortion. your opinion wont stop abortion. it will just take away the safety for the human species your so "worried about" when needing these services. do some research and maybe try to think about it from someones point of view who has actually been through it.

[@amysantiago481]

These OB-GYNs are stating that abortion can be necessary to save a mother’s life in certain circumstances. With the abortion bans by laws, they are now hesitant to provide this care and this can put the mother’s life at risk. If they feel that an abortion is necessary, they will refer their patient out of the state if the state they are currently in bans it. For this reason, the bans are not honoring the ethical principle of beneficence as it is a pain for the physician to not be able to provide the care they need to and for the patient that now has to travel for a procedure that could save her life. I understand that some people may feel that the doctor has other options in treatment care other than abortion and that it does not need to resort to that. However, if abortion is the quickest and safest option to save a mother’s life, why not do it? I encourage law makers to consider the ethical principle of beneficence for everyone and the fact that abortions can save lives when they are imposing these bans.

[@justbe1451]

Everyone must vote.

[@leosicairos1135]

When this kind of draconian law is in place, defiance is necessary.

[@jaycris1980]

Shut up…. Haha

[@EclecticallyEccentric]

​@@jaycris1980So...are you for free childcare or leaving newborns in alleys?

[@jkwellness1639]

Bleeding to death. Yet prolife goes by that name. Not dying yet.

[@DOlovesmedicine]

As the first line of this video states, there is a misconception about what abortion is. Not all abortions are wanted; however, many of them are required. What many people do not know, is that a miscarriage is medically termed a ‘spontaneous abortion.’ When people hear that phrase, they immediately believe it was an intentional decision by the mother to terminate the pregnancy, when in reality, it was completely out of the mother’s decision. Legally, this becomes a problem for those patients and their physicians on paper. I appreciate the OB-GYNs who were brave enough to speak out about such a controversial topic that really controls their entire career. All physicians take an oath before the start of their career, and one of the principles they are required to uphold is the act of non-maleficence; to do no harm to the patient. If a law bans a physician from intervening until the mother’s life is in danger, that is the opposite of non-maleficence. Medical technology is rapidly advancing, and physicians are becoming better at treating patients before their lives are endangered. What is the point in continuing to make these advances within the field of obstetrics and gynecology if these technologies can’t be used efficiently? The fact that all these physicians have sacrificed many years to learn how to properly care for patients, and yet government officials are now dictating what they can and cannot practice is insane to me. As a current medical student excited to begin my career as a practicing physician, I should not be terrified of the legal consequences that might occur from saving one of my patient’s lives. There are already enough worries surrounding the job of a physician, so why must we add on the fear of felony for saving a woman’s life ‘too early?’ I hope this is just a minor setback, and the medical community is able to come together and reverse this situation, or else we are in for a exhausting and terrifying future ahead of us.

[@heatison11]

There is a justice higher than that of man, you will be judged by him

[@candiedisilvio9596]

This is horrific. My heart is breaking for the doctors but most of all their patients. I have 6 daughters and 2 granddaughters. I can not believe during my reproductive years I had more rights than my grandchildren will have. Thank goodness most of my children live in New York and this ban at this time won’t effect them but what about my granddaughter that lives in a state that prohibits abortion.

[@Raymondgogolf]

Hi Candie I hope my comment didn't sound as a form of privacy invasion your comment tells of a wonderful woman with a beautiful heart which led me to comment I don't normally write in the comment section but I think you deserve this complement. If you don’t mind can we be friends? Thanks God bless you….🌹🌹🌹🌹

[@Yesnog05]

Weird how the US is adopting sharia law

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

Why are you being islamophobic?

[@Yesnog05]

@@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen So you support Sharia Law being implemented in the US?

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

@@Yesnog05 Why are you against sharia law? Because you are intolerant of muslims, right?

[@Yesnog05]

@@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen So you admit it, you like to have Sharia Law where they restrict women's rights? Thank you for proving me right

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

@@Yesnog05 nah what I am doing is very similar to what you are doing - purposely missing the point in order to make the thing seem outrageous and very wrong. The US is obviously *NOT* adopting Sharia Law - you know this but are being as dishonest as I am when I say you are islamophobic. Do you get it now?

[@KateLangerhagen]

I appreciate current OB-GYNs for speaking on this difficult topic. As a current medical student interested in OB-GYN and a woman, the recent anti-abortion laws in the United States have certainly been at the forefront of my mind. Abortion is a paralyzing topic politically, and sometimes religiously, for many people. I personally believe in the right to abortion and feel strongly that a woman should be able to choose what is done with her own body. This brings about the ethical principle of autonomy, which is the right to make one’s own decisions. From a physician’s perspective however, I think abortion becomes even more complex. As the OB-GYNs in the interview stated, there is so much more under the realm of abortion than procedures completed in abortion clinics. Many women with non-viable pregnancies and life-threatening conditions due to pregnancy are already affected by these recent changes to abortion care in certain states. Regardless of how an OB-GYN feels about abortion, they might be under legal obligation to refrain from saving a patient’s life with such a procedure. The ethical principle of nonmaleficence comes to mind in this situation. Is it more harmful for a doctor to perform an abortion or to have the patient continue in their pregnancy and potentially have life-threatening consequences because of it? OB-GYNs could also be legally persecuted depending on their medical decisions regarding abortion, especially in regards to which state they are residing in. The current medical climate regarding gynecological procedures is rapidly changing, and I can’t help but question if it’s changing for worse or for the better. Thank you so much to the New York Times and the amazing OB-GYNs for speaking to this controversial but incredibly important topic. Physicians have a responsibility to make the best decisions for their patients, and hopefully future legislation can allow both patients and providers the full autonomy to make the best informed decisions when it comes to patient care.

[@Ambergris24]

From a religious basis the only reason people are against abortion even early on ( which under the law does not matter how the embryo or fetus is removed from the body) they believe that the embryo or fetus has to be born in order to have a soul. And on the hypothesis that a fertilized cell has a conscience at conception. With the states that have laws that express no concern or protection for the mother the outlawed abortion at any stage reminds me of laws in Other countries where pedestrians are endangered every day due to a lack of safety laws but yet it is a law to yield to roaming cattle .

[@learnyboi]

"It is disheartening that it has come to this. One Colorado physician put it best when she said, “Someone is going to die under my care. It’s not going to be because they could not get an abortion, but because they could not get an abortion soon enough.” The majority of the OBGYN’s in this clip are in states where abortion is severely restricted, resulting in these physicians referring patients out to states like Colorado, where abortion is protected. As highlighted in the video, the patients cannot access abortion in many cases because they are simply not dying, yet. To see state governments peeling back the trust and authority of abortion providers, I truly cannot believe it. The sad part is that we are not even discussing the abortion that most Americans are thinking of in this clip. We are discussing lifesaving treatment to mothers bearing children that are not viable. These individuals are more qualified than any other group to make the call. It is hurtful that politicians and others believe that they (the physicians) do not have their patients’ best interests in mind. I frequently see stories of traditionally pro-life women realizing that they are in fact pro-choice when it comes to them because their situation is different. Do these individuals not believe that abortion providers are trained to view these situations objectively? I will not get into my argument that abortion should always be a choice for every woman. Abortion care is a part of OBGYN the same way that an appendectomy is a part of general surgery. Physicians learn everything in their respective field to take care of each unique case. One cannot divide up physicians and strip them of key aspects of their training, that is unethical to the field of medicine as a whole. Medicine is a trade, with residency as its apprenticeship. If you remove certain components, they risk being lost and that is not fair to those that may benefit from the skill. I unfortunately think that this problem will correct itself as OBGYNs will avoid residency programs and work in these restricted states. The populations will lose the invaluable OBGYNs and all of the skills they offer. This is not ethical on the physicians’ side either as they must practice beneficence, doing good; however, if they are not presented the opportunity to do good in the first place, did they ever really do the opposite?”

[@Master_Petes_Theater]

Physicians and nurses, including ob-gyns and ER docs, in those restrictive states should consider moving to more amenable states. There are shortages everywhere, so, if states offer reciprocal licensing, these healthcare providers should find ready employment. Let the restrictive states suffer from insufficient services and hear them howl!

[@Fireclaws10]

It’s not just about them, it’s about their patients who they care for. They have an ongoing relationship with their patients and want to keep taking care of them.

[@Master_Petes_Theater]

@@Fireclaws10 They aren't permitted to treat their patients in a manner conducive to best medical practice and patient welfare. Also, they're also liable to lose their licenses and gain felony convictions. So, their hands are tied and their careers are in jeopardy. Docs and nurses cannot practice if they're imprisoned or if they lose their licenses. This might compel the citizens to rise up and vote for at least less restrictive abortion access in their states.

[@kappanilo]

Thanks so much for your comment. Some of the physicians we interviewed did talk about moving to states with less restrictive laws. However, they brought up that doing so may create maternal health care deserts, leaving communities without care.

[@Master_Petes_Theater]

@@kappanilo You're welcome! These medical professionals aren't permitted to treat their patients in a manner conducive to best medical practice and patient welfare. Also, they're also liable to lose their licenses and gain felony convictions. So, their hands are tied and their careers are in jeopardy. Docs and nurses cannot practice if they're imprisoned or if they lose their licenses. This might compel the citizens to rise up and vote for at least less restrictive abortion access in their states. Michigan is one state that will provide the opportunity for citizens to state their case; concerned organizations were able to collect enough signatures to place it on the ballot this November.

[@KentuckyLiz]

@@kappanilo One OBGYN moved from Texas to NZ after SB8, after doing an excellent analysis video on the problem for clinicians. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJulZn2XoN6nr8U

[@gl3913]

The need for abortion to be a federally protected law is greater than ever. And so, ladies and gentlemen go out and vote this November for the more people that our country has in office that supports abortion, the better we all will be.

[@obfuscatethecode5696]

@@DisinfoWatch it’s already legal. You just have to relinquish your parental rights.

[@DriveInFreak]

@@DisinfoWatch I'll make a deal with you. You'll get a say in the matter after you push a cantaloupe out of your balloon knot.

[@guardtheham1233]

Can't hun, the constitution protects life sowy :(

[@DriveInFreak]

@@guardtheham1233 Were do you see the right to force people to give birth against their will in the Constitution?

[@gl3913]

@@guardtheham1233 We will see for abortion rights 100% will be federally protected in all 50 states one day. And, you may have a misunderstanding on the part of the U.S. Constitution where it says life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If I am wrong, then you have to prove that you are right with 100% legit credible evidence.

[@breakhart]

1:33 okay that's really something, that means doctors are pushed to do more risky maneuvers that would killed both instead of one

[@everettwatson3238]

The court is legitimate. It you state that abortion is illegal you have to make adoption illegal. You cant make the tax payers take care of a child the mother does not want. That is illegal. The abortion legalities was not that pressing for the Supreme curt to overturn Roe verus Wade. Abortions were natural during the construction of the constitution. The country had only 1000 citizens who had rights. The slave owners would applaud you for that ruling. The Indians would be allowed to abort without objection during the construction of the constitution. The state of Mississippi does not even like to pay any welfare. They diverted welfare money to child protection services. 1540s, "the expulsion of the fetus before it is viable," originally of deliberate as well as unintended miscarriages; from Latin abortionem (nominative abortio) "miscarriage; abortion, procuring of an untimely birth," noun of action from past-participle stem of aboriri "to miscarry, be aborted, fail, disappear, pass away,". Abortion is a natural process that can occur on its own. Abortions were occurring in the world long before the construction of the constitution. A women used to be punished if a child was aborted naturally. Before well educated minds stopped the massacres from occurring. Unless that individual in Mississippi is god himself and can prevent a natural miscarriage from occurring he should not have the power to prevent a woman from having a safe medical procedure from a trained medical professional. The right thing to do if you criminalize abortion is to ban adoption. The tax payers should not have to pay for somebody's child that they do not want.

[@Tom.788]

It’s coming. The other Republicans just don’t like Lindsay’s timing.

[@cassie0295]

My heart goes to women but the Republicans are celebrating

[@pidunc49]

I can’t share this on instagram stories, is there a way to share it on instagram stories?!

[@iamthedutchbro]

Relax Pierre.

[@littlelemon1783]

U could do a screen recording & then post that

[@MCCCXll]

ah yeah atfer research studies showed mens fertility rate lowers we had to "equalize" on the womens end...sick to the stomach and my heart is with all the women

[@kerrishaw9910]

I am trying to psychologically analyze why the country made this decision. Is it because For the first time in history the white population of America has decreased for the first time? Any thoughts anyone?

[@mplp1959]

Perhaps it has something to do with killing innocent babies. Are you outraged kids are killed in schools, drive by shootings, abusive parents? Shouldn’t we be outraged that the innocent are killed in the womb?

[@daisyadele967]

I think they just want people divided and fighting

[@MakaykayLAMB]

FIFTEEN YEARS OF SCHOOL. 🤯🤯🤯

[@Nat-u4s]

The abortion controversy in the United States really brings to light a lot of the issues that happen when healthcare becomes political. Abortion is an interesting topic because it involves all four principles of medical ethics; justice, autonomy, beneficence, and non-maleficence. I think that the reason abortion is such a hot topic is because there is a very big misconception about what an abortion is. Most people hear the word abortion and they don’t think about medical emergencies. They think of it as an elective procedure. I like that the doctors in this video mention how there are multiple different circumstances which would warrant an abortion, circumstances in which the mother’s life is at risk and the fetus will not survive outside of the womb. When considering the ethical principle of non-maleficence, I can certainly understand why there are many people who argue against abortions. In their eyes, an abortion is causing direct harm to the fetus, thus ending it’s life or the potential it had for life. When considering the ethical principle of beneficence, I can understand why some people argue in favor of abortions. In the case of a medical emergency like an ectopic pregnancy, one would expect their physician to act in a way that would put the mother’s well-being and safety above all else. I think that these two principles become a bit trickier and more muddled in the case of elective abortions. Some argue that in the spirit of beneficence and non-maleficence it would be best to do what the mother feels is the best decision for her and not make her raise a child she is not ready to raise. Others would argue that the best thing to do is to allow the healthy pregnancy to progress and not deprive the fetus of life. If we consider the principles of justice and autonomy, the abortion controversy gets even trickier. By allowing the abortion, the autonomy of the mother is respected by allowing her to make decisions about her own health. However, the argument about the autonomy of the life in the womb comes into consideration here too. Is respecting the autonomy of the mother a violation of the fetus’s autonomy? As for the principle of justice, it seems that there is a very real issue when it comes to abortions. This video highlighted that issue when the OBGYNs stated that they had to send their patients across state lines to receive care. Some of the physicians stated that they have a fear of losing their license or of being sued due to their state laws. I think that the topic of abortion is really interesting and some worthwhile conversations about the principles of medical ethics and how they affect the physician-patient relationship need to be discussed further.

[@Paraphrase1-Z9]

The emotional and negative language used by people (mostly male and female misogynists) to ban abortion is meant to shame people who have abortions and make them feel like their decision is wrong or immoral. Take, for example, the phrase “late-term abortion.” It’s actually a completely made-up phrase that has no basis in medicine. It’s pure anti-abortion propaganda, intended to confuse people about when abortion happens. Bottom line: “Late-term abortion” isn’t a thing, except in the imaginations of anti-abortion rights activists. What we are mostly talking about here is the termination of zygotes, blastocyst, blastula, embryo, and semi-formed fetus. Miscarriage's are also unpleasant, but occur anyway. Delaying treatment for someone who has had a miscarriage, puts that woman's life in danger. I have often said that 12 weeks is a reasonable timeframe for treatment, however there are always cases where intervention will be needed further into the pregnancy. Delaying or denying this treatment is inhuman and a violation of rights.

[@pastorofmuppets8834]

A great reminder of how disgraceful medical system is in the US

[@robertjones7419]

Kind of like doctors who don’t support the jab…

[@6williamson]

Before Roe all these procedures were being performed routinely. Now, that Roe is overturned, the narrative is that all OB/GYN care is threatened. Actually, I am worried that there will be docs who deviate from standard of care medicine, puting patients at risk, just to make a political point.

[@guardtheham1233]

or make money

[@uprightape100]

The American Taliban at work. Vote Blue.......many times. Seriously, vote blue.

[@forallofme4441]

Vote blue. Their hands run red with the blood of innocents. Vote blue!!

[@FiatVoluntasTuaAmen]

Why are you so islamophobic?

[@kimberlygarrett1485]

Vote red, let the citizens of the states decide what parameters they want in regards to abortion, dems no longer support safe and rare they want it to be common and on demand even into the third trimester.

[@texaswildflower7535]

@@forallofme4441 LOL!! Good riddance!! Vote blue

[@forallofme4441]

@@texaswildflower7535 You're only condemning yourself buddy. Pretending to LOL isn't fooling anyone.

[@tommcqueen3145]

I don't have a vagina, so I don't know why this is on my youtube page, but from the looks of the comment section, ALL of the decenters have been deleted

[@airbush3000]

I'm impressed that words have so much impact on the behavior of people North of here. Most of the women here just follow local customs passed on for generations with very little regard to all those legal limitations.

[@flowerboy313]

Keep your legs closed, problem solved.

[@chinhtai9792]

6 big questions about new Omicron-targeting boosters answered Health officials believe the newly formulated shots will offer stronger protection against severe COVID-19 as we head into the fall and winter. BYPRIYANKA RUNWAL PUBLISHED SEPTEMBER 10, 2022 • 8 MIN READ who believe who?

[@lucyk2371]

I wish every Republican had to watch this video.

[@guardtheham1233]

You say abortion, I say Murder both right, both horrible.

[@texaswildflower7535]

Nah, just personal responsibility. Thank goodness for abortion!

[@khushikothari2440]

To all the mf who yell top g and are pro lifers. Just see this please.

[@kathyscaman1639]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHyWq6qta72Nnbs

[@dorthyplaylist]

If a woman is bleeding so much her life is at risk, why aren't they giving her units of blood exactly? Like they would to anyone that's bleeding? Isn't that part of being a doctor as a basic standard of provision when someone is losing blood?

[@holly.earendil5187]

Yes of course, but a surgical abortion would also be required as the placenta is INCREDIBLY vascular and is the reason you can bleed out and die. Once it’s coming away like that, it will not heal. It’s abortion or die.

[@puclopuclik4108]

Bleeding heavily does mean they are dying. Woman have heavily periods and don't get transfusion either. It's also as side effects of birth control. You can be bleeding few months in a row and will be told it's fine.

[@klh2610]

This is privilege? Negative stereotypes have repercussions. Ceiling breakers worked hard to gain rights now lost to divisive hubris. The alliance is strong when we support each other. We must unite against hateful behaviors, not attack one another as scapegoats, one at a time, until we are alone with no one to protect human rights.

[@benjaminreyna3820]

L ine miscar

[@davedelarond6383]

NYT has no credibility and Ron DeSantis is king! Happy birthday Governor and thank you for all you do for Florida.

[@texaswildflower7535]

And thank you abortion pill for allowing the women of Florida to abort unwanted mistakes!! Happening everyday!! Thank you! 🙏🙏

[@WatchDoggyDog]

there needs to be a separate term for necessary abortions, perhaps necessary abortions. when the mother's health or life is at risk, and/or the baby is confirmed to not have a chance at making it at all, then it should be abortion time, then and only then; obviously.

[@MrGelowe]

The problem with just redefining terminology is that pro-birthers are already defining terms the way that suites them. They assigned personhood to a clump of cells that might some day be a person, even if they are nonviable and will never achieve said personhood. This is an extremely complicated topic that is being driven by idiots.

[@energymaven7537]

@@MrGelowe Yes! Well said.

[@drwalka10]

yeah they seem to conflate the two scenarios

[@magasaremooks]

How about ZERO government interfering period??

[@forallofme4441]

@@magasaremooks Because killing babies is all good?

[@drwalka10]

@ 05:44 ... by law you CAN save the women regardless of the outcome of the fetus. What is she so worried about @ 05:44 ?

[@guardtheham1233]

her loss of income

[@dandananda]

What they should do is have legal abortion but only for the shortest period in the range mainstream views on when an embryo becomes a human/sentient/significantly developed - whatever the criteria. Let’s imagine for example that the maximum period for legal abortion is set at 14 weeks. There would be a sliding scale of federal taxation on abortion that taxes more with every week post conception. This should cause women to take more care to check early if they’re pregnant and have earlier (and easier, eg more chemical) abortions, if they need one- because there rarely an unavoidable reason to have a late abortion if you make sure to test for pregnancy whenever there’s the slightest doubt.

[@i.p.7687]

What if they wanted the child. But late it's deemed that the mother will die if she goes into labor, so she has to get a super late abortion? Why are you people so determined to punish woman for stuff they can't control.

[@dandananda]

@@i.p.7687 I don’t think that across the whole range of this debate, that there is any significantly represented opinion that is arguing for denying a woman the right to abort at any stage, when giving birth would mean putting her life at risk. Of course of course, such a decision should be made by the mother as she sees fit. That’s a very specific and extreme case that doesn’t really relate to the core of the issue being discussed today.

[@holly.earendil5187]

Almost all late abortions are of wanted pregnancies that are either life threatening or not compatible with life. Imagine charging someone for that you absolute monster. This would not discourage abortions, it would discourage SAFE abortion.

[@puclopuclik4108]

Sorry to break it to you, but unwanted pregnancies are resolved with first trimester. Unfortunately you don't know if something is wrong with the child upto 12 weeks. And even after that the complications can come at any time. So basically you want the same system what worked well for decades.

[@Paraphrase1-Z9]

@@i.p.7687 The emotional and negative language used by people (mostly male and female misogynists) to ban abortion is meant to shame people who have abortions and make them feel like their decision is wrong or immoral. Take, for example, the phrase “late-term abortion.” It’s actually a completely made-up phrase that has no basis in medicine. It’s pure anti-abortion propaganda, intended to confuse people about when abortion happens. Bottom line: “Late-term abortion” isn’t a thing, except in the imaginations of anti-abortion rights activists. What we are mostly talking about here is the termination of zygotes, blastocyst, blastula, embryo, and semi-formed fetus. Miscarriage's are also unpleasant, but occur anyway. Delaying treatment for someone who has had a miscarriage, puts that woman's life in danger. I have often said that 12 weeks is a reasonable timeframe for treatment, however there are always cases where intervention will be needed further into the pregnancy. Delaying or denying this treatment is inhumane and a violation of rights.

[@Rainingdogsandcats]

Go tell the board not us random citizens. Why you all try to scare and complain to us? So sick of the medical establishment.

[@Raymondgogolf]

Hi Kat I hope my comment didn't sound as a form of privacy invasion your comment tells of a wonderful woman with a beautiful heart which led me to comment I don't normally write in the comment section but I think you deserve this complement. If you don’t mind can we be friends? Thanks God bless you….🌹🌹🌹🌹

[@mrdavinci4178]

If a female wants the choice of having abortions, males should have the same time frame to have the choice to pay child support or not.

[@susannehartl3067]

Vasectomy should be your choice of contraception. This way you never have to fear paying child support.

[@candiedisilvio9596]

How can you equate Child support with abortion rights? A man also has the choice of wearing a condom

[@mrdavinci4178]

@@susannehartl3067 lol you still don't even understand

[@mrdavinci4178]

@@candiedisilvio9596 delusional

[@undetestable1]

Let me put it to you simply. If we do not hold the father and mother accountable for taking care of thier child then you, me and everyone else will have to take care of the children via our taxes. Honestly I am being a bit generous with my terminology since paying children support isn't anywhere close to actually raising or caring for a child. It is quiet litterally the bare minimum.

[@edwing8895]

Abortion bans on demand and without apology.

[@andreylucass]

Is she talking about the Hippocratic Oath? Because it says: "I will give no deadly medicine to anyone if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art."

[@forallofme4441]

She's talking about the Hypocrite Oath!

[@LipSyncLover]

i mean the full oath also says that you swear by Appolo (and other greek gods)....which virtually no one believes in anymore. So obviously not everything from the original is relevant to modern medicine.

[@forallofme4441]

@@LipSyncLover Yes. Especially the part about "doing no harm". It's replaced by "killing innocent children".

[@CChrist-mh4mk]

@@forallofme4441 why do you think you are smarter than doctors?

[@whiplash636]

Do you even know what a pessary is?

[@waynemcghie6500]

Does abortion cause breast cancer? In medical circles, estrogen is a known carcinogen (cancer causing). When a woman is pregnant, her estrogen rate spikes significantly, and her breasts begin to change in size and function (differentiate) for breast feeding. Specifically, her ovaries produce 2000 percent more estrogen and progesterone at this time. With the levels of estrogen now elevated, if she interrupts the cell differentiation process before full term pregnancy, this elevated estrogen introduces routes for the onset of breast cancer. This is the triggering process where abortion increases the risk of breast cancer. This is why in a late term abortion or miscarriage, with this abundance of estrogen, the risk of breast cancer increases by 638 percent over those with no such history. This is also why teenagers who have an abortion are especially at risk for breast cancer, because of the changes estrogen is already causing in their breasts, plus the additional estrogen from the pregnancy. There are a lot more data on this but the bottom line is, (1) abortion significantly increases the risk of breast cancer for all women, (2) the younger the woman and the later the abortion, the greater the breast cancer risk, and (3) the breast cancer rate for women almost doubled since Roe v. Wade. It is medically established that abortion increases the rate of breast cancer. But women typically are not told about this until the breast cancer starts and by then, prevention is no longer a choice. If you wish to learn more, check out "My Right to Choose," on Amazon. This information will help you make informed choices about what you do, and what you encourage your family and friends to do. It literally could be the difference between life or death.

[@holly.earendil5187]

This has been debunked many MANY times.

[@mylittleelectron6606]

How dare they not allow medical professionals to act with impunity. It's not like doctors have strung out half the population on painkillers and dumbed down the rest with tranquilizers. If anything, this video is alarming. Exactly how many babies have you accidentally killed before all this happened? Is this like an everyday thing?

[@i.p.7687]

It's big pharma which started the opioid epidemic, not the individual doctors. There forced to work in a system which they know is crap at treating patients well, and they have to do best they can regardless.

[@SenorCinema]

These doctors don’t know everything. Sometimes the same child that the doctor said wouldn’t make it ends up thriving and living a long life

[@alicianelson1252]

99% of the time it doesn't happen I trust doctors not Trump supporters

[@LipSyncLover]

so? that means we should just...hope on a whim that every woman will be ok? and that she should have no say on whether or not she wants to risk it? wtf

[@DriveInFreak]

They know more than you do.

[@wb7606]

@@LipSyncLover apparently to pro.lifers we all have the same amazing pregnancies and they all go great and we end up happy physically and mentally human beings with no complications or problems. They all apparently know us and our health. better than our own Drs even. it's sad people don't see how women's health is being completely disregarded. And I don't think they realize how important a women's mental health is in pregnancy. That's why people who don't know how it feels to go thru pregnancy or labour or the after math shouldn't have a say. If you can't experience it or have not experienced it I should say then you have no idea and can't possibly know how it feels physically emotionally or mentally. I agree!

[@wb7606]

@@alicianelson1252 especially in the hundreds of misscarriges everyday. They don't have a chance and that was a wanted pregnancy. Those women need abortions. I think they are forgotten about alot and people underestimate how often they happen. You either have to wait until it comes out and your in pain and could get an infection and die or it can cause future fertility issues or seek an abortion before anything bad happens. This isn't putting a mothers life over her babies this is making sure the mother doesn't die along with her baby. It's really sad. I don't see how anyone can judge a women who wanted her baby and lost it or was left with no other option. I also don't see how so many think it's their private life to be involved in. If we can't walk up to pregnant women and rub their bellies as strangers why are we trying to tell them what to do with their pregnancies? It's very confusing! I agree.

[@ScarlettM]

0:08 - how is this oath not applied to children? How can you have "do no harm" mindset when you are killing babies?

[@fouroverseven7799]

Like it said in the video, this problem is exaggerated. Most women who actually need a medically-necessary abortion are not being denied one. This video is simply meant to confuse the issue.

[@holly.earendil5187]

They are because abortion refers to ANY ending of pregnancy, the DnC you have after a miscarriage is the same thing you have if you have a surgical abortion. They are all the same thing. By blanket banning them, it makes giving those questionable under the law and threatens their practice

[@mylittleelectron6606]

Something sounds odd about that doctors statement, "someone is going to die because they didn't get an abortion fast enough." It would suit her better to at least acknowledge that either outcome would result in the loss of a human life. Perhaps then this important issue would be closer to a solution. And if current medical techniques and knowledge are insufficient for saving the child's life, then perhaps the mothers likelihood of surviving a given procedure is governed more by chance than doctoral skill and know-how. With such limited capabilities, these doctors have no justification to claim medical certainty.

[@eurekamreum5458]

"Either outcome would result in the loss of a human life". Stephen, the only tangible human life at that point is the mother's, she should be the top priority in this case.

[@allein1001]

Some pregnancies simply cannot be saved, and it has nothing to do with the doctor's skills or know-how. The good news is we now live in a time when pregnant women don't need to die, too.

[@kria9119]

Are you daft? If a woman needs an abortion to save her life, the child will be dead anyways. Because the MOTHER WILL DIE, and with her, the child too. Save the mother if the child cannot be saved

[@forallofme4441]

Doc: "We take this oath to do no harm, and I feel like this law is preventing me from cutting up babies" NYT: HOW TERRIBLE! (Plays sad music)

[@danka814]

Doctors need to be able to make life saving decisions in emergency situations without having to call a lawyer and risk criminal punishment.

[@LipSyncLover]

tell me you're cool with women and mothers bleeding out without telling me you're cool with women and mothers bleeding out

[@DriveInFreak]

Nobody is cutting up babies.

[@wb7606]

This reveals the warped logic and hateful absurdities of the anti-choice worldview. The movement claims to see embryos and fetuses as persons, and in practice they speak as if these “persons” are not women’s equals, but their superiors: the fetus is conceived of as more important than the woman, more worthy, less tainted by those things that make a pregnant woman so unappealing - her femaleness, her sexuality, her tendency to have human desires and human struggles, like irritation or addiction or anger. In the service of protecting and advancing this superior being of the fetus, the anti-choice movement claims, it is justifiable, even necessary, to steal the freedom of those lesser women.

[@LipSyncLover]

@@wb7606 i've caught on to that yeah. They dont want equal rights for a fetus or embryo. they want them to have SUPERIOR rights. because if i get in a car accident, and i injure my kidney and need it to live, I can't go to the person who was at fault for the accident and be like "I need your kidney too bad i'll be taking it now. No you don't get a choice, you put me in this situation afterall. And if you didnt want this to happen to you, you should just never get in a car and drive". Like in NO WORLD would that be a right that i have, to use another person's body to survive. but they want unborn people to have that right. What's worse, they want the unborn who aren't even really AWARE yet to have that right, even at the cost of fully aware and sentient humans that CAN experience terror and pain and agony.

[@MIZUHOKAWASIMA]

How do you do? Thank You All as Always. InternationalPolitics. InternationalRelations. InternationalSociety. Please Talk. From East Asia. Great KZbin⛑Thank you Very Much⛑Muchísimas Gracias⛑