On the Ballot: An Immigration System Most Americans Never Wanted

[@billynotreally3793]

Finally an actually researched piece on the history of immigration policy in the USA and not the typical "all immigration is good" dogmatic fallacy you typically see from NYT and NPR.

[@jez1522]

This is the best NYT podcast I’ve listened to all year. Well done.

[@MIKAEL212345]

Yes, I really loved it.

[@BirdDogey1]

Historic immigration didnt have a taxpayer funded safety net

[@claireconover]

this episode really is enlightening.

[@barrythomsen9065]

An Immigration system does not include Illegal Migrants..!!

[@AFoolOnAHill]

Probably the most succinct yet nuanced and detailed pieces on immigration I have ever heard. I really appreciate the dive into the history of the policy and politics.

[@cdavidlake2]

Props to the Times for doing something like this - with all the nuance that the topic demands.

[@SleepyChihuahua-ip4kn]

Wow David is one of the best journalists I’ve discovered from the NYT, will have to buy his book. Great episode

[@MIKAEL212345]

Immigration seems to be like this everywhere. You can see in this in europe. The politicians are all much more for increased immigration than the public, and, like in europe, this leads to a far right backlash when the public gets ignored for too long.

[@nicholasrova3698]

Is it a far right back lash, or just normal people backlash? New York City and England are both known as left wing bastions, and yet their backlash to illegal immigration is skyrocketing. Are they far right now?

[@SLefd]

100 %. Hugs from Scandinavia, mad leaders!

[@Jeanne90275]

It's not just the far right

[@ananousous]

In the US, it was the passing of the IIRIRA that broke our system. I suspect entirely by design because immigrants have always been useful scape goats and an excuse to keep citizens from questioning their oligarchs and the system

[@polishtheday]

The general public is ill-informed and this is partly the fault of the media addiction to short form journalism and sometimes outright bias. People need to hear both sides of any argument and be given data they can fact check. Open discussion, free from personal attacks, would also be a big help. I feel fortunate to have friends who I can disagree with politically and hotly debate politics with and who still remain friends.

[@gene4094]

This episode shines a light on the American psyche on immigration. Like all animals’, humans react to their survival. In an area becomes threatened by, overcrowding threatens food supply, they will become aggressive.

[@larryames8831]

Barbara Jordan, truth teller.

[@marygemmacapodanno2035]

Excellent, thoughtful, intelligent and informative; respectful and dignified.

[@DucTDuong]

What a wonderful and insightful piece. Thank you for your work!

[@Yukyuk96]

I'm glad to see a liberal progressive outlet presenting this argument. For too long the voices asking for sanity in migration have been demonized

[@DarkenRaul1]

The N.Y. Times are not “progressive”, but they are “liberal” in the historical meaning of the word, meaning they are capitalistic (which in term means right of center in terms of politics).

[@Kirk1914]

I think you should do a whole series of podcasts on Republicans who employ illegal immigrants, illegally I presume. A reality check here is needed.

[@goatgirl5968]

This is a good point. Many of the prosperous folks in my very conservative city employ crews of people who don't speak a word of English for their roofing, construction, landscaping (etc) businesses. Are they here legally? I doubt it. I wonder if they are a little nervous their whole work force might be deported by Trump. They might have to drive their hundred-thousand dollar trucks out to the worksite and get their hands dirty again. Heaven forbid.

[@Daveyjonesvi]

@@goatgirl5968I don’t think they think about it tbh

[@imperialmotoring3789]

Chicago is going bankrupt thanks to the illegals.

[@davyroger3773]

Genius! Great stuff guys

[@jmamusicaz]

Why is there no discussion of guest worker programs? That is a huge contributor to the origin of illegal immigration. Workers would come in illegally and, since they couldn’t go home seasonally, they ended up bringing their families permanently, too. Also, George W. Bush proposed immigration reform which was soundly rejected by his own party. What was in that proposal that that was so repulsive to his party? Great story, outside of those omissions.

[@polishtheday]

Many countries have guest worker programs with end dates or that are seasonal. If the U.S. isn’t doing this, then there’s an enforcement problem that’s not the fault of the immigration system itself. And if these people are needed to do the work, why isn’t there a legal path to permanent residency?

[@tatianasoldak593]

Excellent podcast! Thank you!!!!!

[@erikalin3782]

Good things are rarely free.

[@timeship]

I wish this was a documentary, at least with photo material, not just a podcast since it's on KZbin ;-) THX

[@Jeanne90275]

It's illegal immigration, not immigration. Let's not conflate the two.

[@jgyuri]

Yes but let's also make legal immigration illegal

[@Beaverghost6500]

What are you on about

[@imperialmotoring3789]

@@Beaverghost6500 Save America Deport Every Illegal Trump 2024

[@twyckoff87]

Did you even listen? It's both.

[@Ryanrobi]

The real issue with wages is productivity gains have been stagnant for 50 years for most jobs If you look at industries for productivity gains are faster than inflation you see salaries are up significantly You can look at information technology workers financial services commercial agriculture hydraulic fracturing all of those have grown in productivity significantly more than inflation in salaries in those industries are significantly higher because of that. There's just a hard upper limit to how much you can pay someone to do a service when they're productivity level is very low for example if you got rid of all foreign daycare people offering that service the pay would only increase for the Americans wanting to do it until the opportunity cost is too high for the parent that would go to work so you're not going to see daycare salaries go to $100,000 a year because the would be parent only makes $60,000 a year if she/he goes to work. Supply and demand for that skill set in that geography is only secondary to wage levels. If you want to increase pay for people in the low end you need increase their productivity through capital investment and lower regulation. For example truck drivers today are about 40% less productive than they were in 1972 entirely because regulations do not allow them to drive as much, So there is an upper limit to how much people will pay for drivers because they're less productive.

[@logic_rules]

Yes, because we want safe roads, not truck drivers behind the wheel 20 hours a day to make more money.

[@beng4647]

I can't compete with entire Mexican families.

[@TupeloHoney6104]

Very interesting topic. Thanks for sharing this.

[@reja1309]

The way we tax people for services matters. If you're paying huge property tax bills to live in your area, then it's logical that people who have paid into the tax system for years don't want to give it away to others who have not paid and will not pay the same tax burden. I read a comment from a Polish woman that I can't quote or attribute accurately, but essentially what she said about immigration is that when citizens have paid taxes and fought wars to defend their national borders and way of life, THEY are the ones who get to decide who they will share it with.

[@alejandrosanchez6683]

That’s the point, people living here who have no citizenship status have been paying taxes for years yet they don’t get a chance to vote. The immigrants in the u.s. contribute so much, in fact immigrants contribute a lot more than u.s. citizens who depend on government services such as well fare, etc and u.s. citizens are the number 1 drug consumers in the world. In the other hand, immigrants in the states cannot claim the services given by the government and are hard working, because they face hardships they are less likely to consume drugs and do crime. Immigrants contribute so much yet they are not recognized for their honorable and significant contributions to the u.s. many immigrants die in the United States never being able to see their parents or visiting their relatives or families. Immigrants are the backbone, the real life heroes of modern day u.s.

[@reja1309]

@@alejandrosanchez6683 I have no problem with a legal immigration path to citizenship and I think we need a much faster route to get there without losing discernment along the way. We also need temp guest workers that we keep track of. But the uncontrolled illegal immigration and poorly planned resettlements (Haitians in Springfield for example) we have, by political design btw, is bad all around and must be stopped NOW.

[@dmerc374]

Immigration is not the issue, we have always had massive immigration, however today, the problem is the massive illegal immigration which is obvious to anyone who can see and hear.

[@mikechilds4085]

Thanks! Putting this issue in context of 100 years of policy was a great service. My own observations of the blue collar family in the south, and Union co-workers in New York is that these bad policies in immigration from both the right and left basically pour gas on this nations racist tendencies. I’d say that’s one of the biggest costs of the failure to implement sound policies.

[@farzana6676]

If a government is not implementing the will of the people due to left wing dogma, then you will inevitably see the rise of the far right in a Democratic system. This is also the case for Europe in which millions upon millions of radical Izlamists were allowed in, completely altering the demographic, cultural and ideological makeup of entire cities.

[@innerestless]

I don't have enough information on our immigration system and how different the US would have been with a more strict/punishment-oriented immigration system than where we ended up, but I am very skeptical of any argument that blames elites without providing data to support the argument. They are our current scapegoat for all issues, and history has shown us what finding convenient scapegoats can lead to. All ideology is not partisan; his ideology seems populist, which leads to reporting that fits well within his ideology but does not make a convincing argument that more immigration is bad for the US. Never even mentioned a single job or even category negatively affected by the higher immigration, nor did he mention other causes for the increase in immigration or the precipitous drop in 2020 as the pandemic shut down the world, or that the millennial generation is officially the largest generation in history, due largely to the children of the same immigrants he is blaming for all of the US's problems. I do not know if he is correct, and millennial children of immigrants shut down the ditch-digging jobs for American citizens. That is the issue I have with his reporting; it was not enlightening at all. Truly weak reporting, honestly.

[@slavajuri]

People without college degrees, working in services or industries relating to physical labour, lose wages as a result of immigration. This is broadly held to be true, and David's citation is freely available on the internet with a Google search. However. The wage effects described in that summary, much as the results of all studies ever done on this issue, even by people committed to drastically cutting or eliminating immigration in Western societies, are demonstrated to be minor (0.3-3% YOY; higher numbers broadly correlated as sub-5 year effects) at best. David is decently well at discussing what people *feel* about immigration, and why the system works the way it does (kinda sorta). He's not at all compelling on the data, and frankly I do expect better hard facts on all of this.

[@Daveyjonesvi]

“​@@slavajuri Doesn’t this directly feed into the idea that “higher wages means more inflation” as this is the talking point of people who want less immigration but complain about raising the minimum wage. Anywho I see how illegal immigration can depress wages, but at the same time wouldn’t the logical thing to do is make it so you can’t pay people below minimum wage whether citizen or not. I’m a firm believer when you raise address issues from the weakest and most vulnerable everyone benefits. As it is, the threat of deportation is what keeps wages low.

[@farzana6676]

​@Daveyjonesvi This is the problem with Dems. They don't understand economics. The free market determines the wage rate. Artificially increasing the wage floor using government mandated minimum wages causes more problems than it solves. As conservatives, we support rising wages, but it should happen due to market factors. ie. Supply and Demand. Not government imposition. Also, the US is not responsible for solving all the World's problems. These people who migrate in the millions should fight to improve the conditions in their own nations.

[@calebfranks3903]

I think it’s possible that in 25 years or so many countries will be begging for immigrants to come.

[@notastone4832]

nope.

[@reja1309]

Japan is a case in point. They will have to give up their xenophobia and allow more immigration if they are going to survive as a nation and not just a diaspora. It's a shame but they have done it to themselves with their unhealthy culture of work till you drop. Now their youth are dropping out and living in their bedrooms, never growing into real adulthood. The problems are coming at them like a freight train gaining speed.

[@farzana6676]

No immigrants will come in 25 years because the West will already have been destroyed by the previous migrants. Import the 3rd World and become the 3rd World.

[@jennwest4031]

Some aspects of this podcast were enlightening, but I find it shocking how he doesn’t speak to the fact that the national unemployment rate is extremely low and the US has more job demand than available workers. Also, I think he ignored the many economical benefits of immigration and how much our economy relies on it . We definitely need immigration reform, but it almost seems he’s advocating for Trump adjacent immigration policies.

[@snowaIker]

I guess people are not only thinking about today. What if some day the unemployment rate becomes high?

[@mattvaldez2438]

you're so out of touch its unreal

[@Tony-hs8sc]

But what is very embarrassing and at times even funny is that look how our “media “ covers insanely important topics: This guy and the New York Times and basically 95-99% of corp media LEFT the southern border where they were camped in outrage over trump for four years and a week - literally 8 days into Biden administration he banned the entire media and even Texas officials and law enforcement from allllll migrant facilities who were strangely at 3000% capacity in fear that someone would notice how insane it is for what they were doing and this hack from New York Times didn’t scream like a lunatic at the “attack on democracy or free press” because they weren’t allowed or didn’t want to report on failure and insanity causes it was now Biden And NOW after zero stories or criticism of the currrny administration for four years and zero transparency, which this loser helped them hide it , And NoW he is going to explain that the only news we need to see or know is that look at what trump is going to do and how’s it’s wrong … This is why no one knows who he is and New York Times have less people reading their garbage than local, small podcasts who discuss cats or fish tank designs lol

[@misatobestgirl7230]

The thing is, having more jobs than available workers is great for workers as competition by businesses for their labour increases their wages.

[@bogeyb200]

yes, we do need immigration, but it should be controlled, by us, on our terms and legal (and I will grant others points on massively underfunded and too long/onerous legal US immigration procedures. the key thing is LOOPHOLE(s) . He mentioned the obvious one here on legal immigration, the other massive loophole is through "political asylum "claims. People are coached on what to say and trafficked to the border. Then they stay here till their hearings. which they won't get for years. And you think the ones who lose their hearings will get deported?? given the massive numbers??? that's why it's such a huge political issue.

[@teryncolmery5651]

Loved learning about Barbara Jordan. But I am curious as to why there was no mention of Reagan's immigration reforms in the 80's.

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

30:18 I love her cadence and intonation

[@imperialmotoring3789]

Reagan got taken for a ride. Trump is way smarter.

[@ganeshsubramanian8450]

Fascinating podcast!

[@barbarajohnson9968]

The Great Barbara Jordan💐

[@jez1522]

I voted for Kamala. That being said, Biden and his advisors are to blame if Rump wins. You cannot ignore the needs of the working class. It’s pathetic how Hillary and Biden did this.

[@Agtsmirnoff]

If you lose, it’s 100% because you made the inexcusable and unfathomable decision to literally open the southern border and invite an invasion into the country. If DeSantis or any competent Republican was running, Kamala would be 10 points behind

[@FlawlessP401]

Kamala is cringe if you're not voting trump I'm not sure how you can even claim to be American

[@harrisrosenberg7992]

LET PEOPLE SPEAK STOP DICTATING TO US!​@@FlawlessP401

[@Devildoge532]

@@FlawlessP401sorry for not having faith in a despot

[@stevechance150]

​​@@FlawlessP401I'm pretty sure your orange Messiah is going to usher in World War III by pulling ALL U.S support, military and financial, from Ukraine. Do you think Poland is going to be fine with Russia conquering their neighboring country? Because if Russia can just "take" one country, why would they stop there?

[@jeanneumana1052]

Lack of vigorous legislative attention to immigration is an insult to citizens. Illegal is different from legal, but this problem is global, with droves from southern hemispheres running to northern prompted by Covid and global warming and political instability and crime as drivers. Americans aren't just blocks of immigrant hyphenates: Irish-Americans, WASPs, Italian- Americans, Indigenous, Black, Jewish, Asian, Latino, Hispanic, Muslim, African-Americans, etc. And why do we id first as the ethnic group we came from...it should be American-Black, American- Indigenous, etc. We've overextended the welcome mat. When our own citizens are hurting and see people stampeding the borders, resentment is the norm. Expansion produces contraction and vice versa. Why should immigration be based on who can enhance the economy? Why is diversity more important than integrity and the ethos of the Founders who hoped for equality of opportunity for higher thought?When did we get sooo mercenary that money is the primary argument? What about language and culture and history and arts and political heritage? We'll look back on this decade as pivotal...100 years after another crackdown on immigration. History is cyclical, but also dialectical. Jordan was no conservative...she was preservative. If America is going to stay as it was founded to be...the United States of America...we 'd better figure it out. Except we lack the leadership.

[@farzana6676]

The leadership is available. We lack the will to vote for it.

[@arnaldoleon1]

What a great summary

[@oogyloogy]

“Hmm”

[@SLefd]

Yup, you got it? The sound of insanity finally perfected: "Hmmm"! Excuse me while I just need to throw up now for some time.

[@frankthetank130]

Excellent episode

[@farzana6676]

This podcast, whilst good, speaks mostly about the legal immigration policy. This podcast doesn't speak to abuse of the asylum process, and border jumpers.

[@jp3d2k]

USA Fertility rate is currently about 1.7. Total annual mortality is currently 0.93% and increasing as the population grows older due to our fertility rate being below the replacement rate. We actually need immigration to restore the worker-retiree ratio and keep our economy and social security healthy.

[@mikeplunkett7072]

This piece will only further infuriate people who are looking for solutions and action. Very NPR like whispering version of .....the policy is bad, politicians are bad, trump manipulates for popularity, dems blah blah. The issue at the border is complex but it isn't due to family members of documented legal immigrants which is the main focus of the outcomes of the 1960s immigration law. the southern border is simply massive, porous, and under enforced. Failing economies south, criminal networks, and a porous border into a very wealthy country of laws and opportunity.............

[@kevinwoolley7960]

High quality history and discussion!

[@websupreme8163]

NOT ONE SINGLE WORD ABOUT CRIME

[@johncross-ru8th]

Overall the episode is informative but He lost me when he said Americans wiill work as ditch digger or blue collar jobs . Reality check, fewer Americans will work in construction and agriculture with low wages. And wages in these sector can't be artificially inflated. There are also highly skilled jobs that Americans cant fill in where shortages has been known for years like IT and healthcare. Congress should enact the law about asylum seekers which majority of the immigrants are.

[@benzle93]

I agree. I own a Janitorial business and most of our workers are immigrants. It's extremely difficult to find labor. And, I rarely see a native born American show up wanting a job.

[@DKJ232]

​@@benzle93Because education lobbyists market that everyone must go to college to be seen as successful. They did amazing job Americans spending thousands of dollars for degrees your earning capability isn't worth it. Americans see manual labor jobs has failure in life.

[@mattvaldez2438]

@@benzle93 its because you can pay em less cmon

[@benzle93]

@@mattvaldez2438 How much do you think we would need to pay to get a native born American to do the job well?

[@twyckoff87]

@@benzle93 If we stopped immigration, you would be forced to pay them more. Bad for you and immigrants, but good for the country.

[@llamaboss1434]

How far we've come from the intelligencia picketing this issue by accusing everyone of bigotry.

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

If the jackboot fits..

[@DarkenRaul1]

Sounds like so many of the “costs” of immigration can be addressed by a functional government. An influx of unskilled workers entering the workforce causing wages to fall? Raise the minimum wage to a livable wage. Certain social services being hampered by more people to service? Increase the budget of those services and hire more personnel. As the history lesson here taught us, the distinction between legal and illegal immigration is a modern phenomenon. Those on the right and “centrists” spouting anti-immigration rhetoric (that both calls for the stopping of illegal immigration and a curtailing of legal immigration) are fundamentally racist and/or protectionist in some capacity. And the “problems” of high immigration are just due to hands-off capitalism and poor fiscal budgeting and spending.

[@imperialmotoring3789]

My property taxes are going up again because of the illegals. Illegals are very expensive.

[@charlesmorschauser5258]

Racism is central to Trumps appeal on immigration

[@RobertGreekSpencer]

NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY ARE TRYING TO STOP DONALD TRUMP.

[@-aussie-]

Bravo!

[@wagtag_]

Really interesting. The push factor of the drug wars and rise of cartels in Latin America starting in the 70s/80s probably also contributed to the sudden start of illegal immigration over the southern border

[@TheUnitedMarshmallowFederation]

Does anyone know where I can find that speech by Barbara Jordan presented in this video?

[@highwayinterchange]

This podcast entirely overlooks the U.S.’s direct role in creating instability in the very countries from which refugees and migrants are historically and now fleeing-a consequence of U.S. intervention in those regions.

[@Agtsmirnoff]

Liberals always want to blame the USA because they hate America!!!

[@whitneyw.7919]

Well I guess we need open borders then to all fleeing, BRING EM RIGHT IN!!

[@Daveyjonesvi]

No but seriously. The US bombs a country, or supports a militant group and it backfires and said militant group raises hell in the country and now all their citizens are fleeing to the US as refugees

[@twyckoff87]

Because it's an insignificant portion of the cause of migration. The vast majority are simply looking for a better life.

[@highwayinterchange]

@ Well, it sounds like you’re misinformed. I suggest researching into the history of U.S. intervention in Latin America & the Caribbean.

[@charlesmorschauser5258]

Big business wants cheap labor that's why serious change in immigration won't happen

[@mariateresaacostajacobs9951]

I believe that the worsening of humanitarian crisis around the world should be taken into account when analyzing the factors that have incresed migration, not only in the USA, but worldwide. Humanitarian crisis are larger and worse now than they were 5 or 8 years ago due to compounded crisis: civil conflicts (wars), health crisis and lack of healthcare for low and middle income countries, climate change, economic crisis and a surge in authoritarian governments.

[@SLefd]

Doesn't change how populations react to high immigration numbers. A majority is going to feel we're in a boat that is in risk of sinking in not too long. They're going to think hat caution and very good planning is needed. Which hasn't been the case and now people are not willing to be polite anymore. I'm sorry but the elites have had this coming for 30 years. I was 23 then and could see it - it was obvious for anyone who chose to sincerly think things through. I"m a scandi woman and it's the same here.

[@tonyferoz]

The wannabe tough guy on the right with the plaid hoodie and the sunglasses on indoors is way too dumb for this conversation😂😂😂😂

[@mikedavidson8419]

Y'all called for it, now you get it ...

[@will27ns]

It would be interesting to know the exact number of Korean radiologists and Japanese microbiologists we got ;-)

[@НиколайТодоров-и9т]

Yeah, 'Hmm!'

[@matthewhoffman6868]

I would like to have heard how asylum-seeking fits into this phenomenon.

[@twyckoff87]

"It's a bit technocratic" aka Biden allows 80% of migrants to make a bogus asylum claim and get let in

[@migrantologosmigrantologos9031]

You forget IRCA 1986 (simpson-rodino 1982) and of course the USA intervention in those countries who started to fleew to north (central america)

[@jonvelde5730]

Oh my God! Seriously. Building houses is the same as "ditch digging"?!! Construction work is unskilled labor? Whoah, brother, you are seriously out of touch, not just with what kind of skill is required for different jobs, but with the physical world around you! You guys have literally no idea.

[@НиколайТодоров-и9т]

Great podcast, but I have the ominous sense of 'last minute revelations are a b*tch'

[@federicofarneti4927]

realy realy interesting bravissimi 👏👏👏

[@silvereaper1]

Lol they are talking like Trump already won.

[@Rudenbehr]

leftists are feeling the maga

[@jamesmoran8294]

Man Barb Jordan is a killer orator

[@pamlewis1183]

Hmmm...very interesting take

[@polishtheday]

An enlightening podcast, but I have a question. In Canada where I live, the majority of immigrants (i.e., those on track to become or who already are permanent residents) are more highly educated than the Canadian-born, who themselves are over-educated for the available jobs. This is backed up by data. Even most of our temporary residents are students (who admittedly work at lower paying jobs to fund their education, just as Canadians do), young people on working experience visas (from countries we a mutual agreement with) or job transfers within global corporations. Many hold high paying jobs. How does this affect the pay of our continually shrinking working class? At the same time Canada has for a long time been a place where foreign companies, including those from the U.S., when the climate isn’t conducive to squeezing what they can out of our country close their Canadian branches and move work back home. That’s one of the reasons why our working class has been shrinking. I saw this firsthand way before globalisation. In most cases, we have stronger worker protections and a bigger union membership than in the U.S. Our teachers, police and other essential workers are better paid. Why does NAFTA get blamed for Americans ills?

[@skh5580]

I think NAFTA caused a lot of US jobs to be transfer from US to Mexico due to lower wages. USMCA had wage clause for auto workers thst NAFTA did not have.

[@polishtheday]

@ But this ignores the fact that Canada, with better worker protections than the U.S., is part of NAFTA, and that we have watched, and sometimes still watch, work moving to the southern states where wages are lower, for decades. Maybe the problem isn’t NAFTA, but the absence in the agreement of all parties agreeing to the best worker protections and the highest wages of all three countries. I think that’s why Canada is often left out of the conversation, because there are things those that who stand to benefit the most don’t want to discuss.

[@recurrenTopology]

This piece accepts as fact that immigration depresses wages, which is often not the case, and the opposite can also be true. While immigrants increase labor supply, they also increae labor demand (they consume goods and services like anyone else), so the net impact of immigration on preexisting citizens is going to depend on the demographics of the immigrants.

[@polishtheday]

And many of them, and some of their children, have founded startups that are now global giants.

[@henkrpe3249]

They literally cited a study from the national academy of sciences to support their point. Where is your peer reviewed economic study to support yours?

[@recurrenTopology]

​@@henkrpe3249 You should go look at that publication, it's titled "The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigrations." It is excellent and goes into the nuisance I address in my comment, which was not reflected in this conversation. This is the first line from the description: "The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration finds that the long-term impact of immigration on the wages and employment of native-born workers overall is very small, and that any negative impacts are most likely to be found for prior immigrants or native-born high school dropouts." Here are some conclusions from the chapter on wages: "the impact of immigration on labor markets varies across time and place, reflecting the size of the inflow, the skill sets of natives and incoming immigrants, the local industry mix, the spatial and temporal mobility of capital and other inputs, and the overall health of the economy." "when measured over a period of more than 10 years, the impact of immigration on the wages of natives overall is very small." "native dropouts tend to be more negatively affected by immigration than better-educated natives. Some research also suggests that, among those with low skill levels, the negative effect on native’s wages may be larger for disadvantaged minorities" "Estimated negative effects tend to be smaller (or even positive) over longer periods of time (10 years or more) or in the case of structural studies, when capital is assumed to be perfectly flexible." "The results of spatial studies are mixed, but some find a positive impact of high-skilled immigration on the wages and employment of both college-educated and less educated natives."

[@recurrenTopology]

@@henkrpe3249 You should go look at that publication, it's titled "The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigrations." It is excellent and goes into the nuisance I address in my comment, which was not reflected in this conversation.

[@henkrpe3249]

@@recurrenTopology You should go listen to the podcast. They do break it down by income level. It's not just you.

[@suzayer]

How did refugees fit into this?

[@bogeyb200]

they don't. That's the real problem, the gaming of the system by supposed political refugees who are automatically allowed into the country to "await their hearing". Not enough judges and courts for hearings. It will take years . All those people, even if they lose their hearings, will NEVER get deported. And I don't blame those people, I blame the ostrich in sand politicians, in this case specifically the Biden administration.

[@twyckoff87]

In America, it's an insignificant issue compared to the levels of immigrants. In Europe its a much bigger part of it.

[@bogeyb200]

@@twyckoff87 i don't think you are correct. For e.g. all the millions of Venezuelans and Central Americans and everyone else crossing the Mexican border, all these people are claiming political asylum, knowing that if they answer their coaches Q and A correctly they have to be allowed into the country to await their hearings (which won't come for years, and once they do, there will be too many people to deport) The Venezuelan cases are particularly hilarious because those were the same people who voted in and supported Chavez and Maduro (in the beginning) until they country fell apart. The people who were anti Chavez fled Venezuela and settled into South Florida a long time ago.

[@inzhener2007]

Please research data on encounters/crossings, on deportations , naturalisation etc. numbers matter. Basically Trumpists made up for that problem, and Moscow and China helped Trump.

[@migrantologosmigrantologos9031]

Of course, trying people vote for Trump…..

[@servandopatlan6150]

The USA immigration program is underfunded and promotes aggression towards foreigners applying for legal immigration. Other countries especially Mexico have a efficient and friendly immigration program. Many Americans are emigrating to Mexico and our applications are processed efficiently with friendly Mexican agents helping and a highly effective computer system. Unfortunately USA Consulates in Mexico and other countries are under funded and under staffed to both help Americans living abroad and foreigners to legally apply for visitor and work visas to come to the USA. I am embarrassed to have been treated so well by Mexico's immigration office and to see how my Mexican friends are harassed and underserved by the USA immigration office.

[@ryansteve2893]

If Immigration is my main concern. Why would I vote for Kamala when I can vote for Trump?

[@claireconover]

it doesnt have to be YOUR main concern… but on average, it’s among the main concerns. in some areas, it probably is THE main concern.

[@WackadoodleMalarkey]

If Trump gets in and hands over Europe to Putin, there will be a flood of European refugees seeking asylum.. ditch diggers and oligarchs alike.

[@lindsayborglum235]

Because his “solution” is to deport millions of people out of this country - even if they were born here, even if it’s at our own financial detriment, even if it weakens our position in international affairs, etc. The immigration system can be fixed humanely.

[@Daveyjonesvi]

Because Kamala actually has a written plan and not just disastrous ideas to deport every illegal immigrant. Americans tend to forget the US has always been a nation of immigrants and Ellis island is a reminder of that.

[@cassandratq9301]

Because Yrump's plan will immediately crash the economy, and hers won't. Musk said just yesterday Trump's plan will create pain for Americans for a couple of years. Google it.

[@mindprobulator]

TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024 TRUMP 2024

[@drekmastermind]

Holy moly, I do not like the host annunciation, I can't be the only one.

[@kevinjones5457]

NYT builds a perfect case for electing Trump and rejecting Harris/Biden on immigration alone. Support legal immigration standards (meritocracy) and end illegal immigration. Barbara Jordan: Immigration is a "Privilege Not a Right!"

[@duo315]

oh no no no no no no no no no no no

[@Daveyjonesvi]

Immigration is a right and those are the American values.

[@jacobrose6661]

Yeah if you don't give a fuck about the Constitution. They yeah! He's perfect!

[@imperialmotoring3789]

@@duo315 No one has the right to come to America.

[@imperialmotoring3789]

@@Daveyjonesvi Immigration is not a right.

[@arend-jansmit4700]

Excellent and informative. Too bad "the muslim ban" crap was repeated. It was not a muslim ban.

[@duo315]

Trump released a statement on December 7, 2015 stating: "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on." It was a Muslim ban, and he will do it again

[@kevinjones5457]

Correct. Trump banned immigration from countries where vetting is not possible.

[@Agtsmirnoff]

How can anybody ignore the fact that 20,000 patients were literally dumped into a town of 40,000 in Ohio and still denied that great replacement isn’t a real thing?

[@kenofken9458]

If you want to hear a good hair-raising great replacement story, ask some Native Americans.

[@Agtsmirnoff]

@@kenofken9458 Hmmm so you're telling us that their fate is our fate if things don't change Thanks, we will take it and run with that People generally don't take too kindly to their own genocide

[@zeuel]

Because great replacement suggests there is some sort of direction behind it and not just being the results of rich assholes and overly idealistic hippy college students having more influence in Washington on spineless politicians than high school dropouts do.

[@Daveyjonesvi]

Springfield officials have said the Haitian immigrants were a blessing to the dying town. They had workers and job creators to fill the vacancies. Though they said housing is lacking that can be solved with more building. Y’all are just racist and xenophobic point blank period.

[@Agtsmirnoff]

@@Daveyjonesvi Yah the big business like them (cheap labor), the "officials" that get bribed by big business like them. The residents HATE them. Great Replacement 100%

[@jayfromct5164]

Trump 😊

[@omfug7148]

no

[@patrickvernon4766]

Gay voice

[@jeremiahshields7827]

Youre a garbage company. No one who matters gets info from you. Keep trying to sencor speech and pedal lies. The maker will make you suffer for an eternity.

[@claireconover]

@@jeremiahshields7827 except you got info from them and you couldn’t spell “censor”. the threat that followed then calcified your apparent ignorance.

[@AzaleaBee]

​@claireconover Not to mention, the OP meant "peddle" but spelled "pedal"

[@Tony-hs8sc]

More people read or saw articles and podcasts on “how to clean a litter box or fish tank cleaning “ than they did this guys “reporting” Every time I hear how pathetic and embarrassing our media is - I really understand why no one respects them and why trump will win again and why he humiliated Hillary 2016