O-Chain Review

[@Charlotte_MTB]

Best "foot"-age ever Braking is where I noticed 12 degree float being magical.

[@Kev2Bee]

I appreciate your videos, Brian. They are straightforward and validated by your expertise. The effectiveness of this product seems to depend on several factors: Suspension design Gear selection (which cog you're in) Hub engagement angle I think this product might not be a one-size-fits-all solution, even with different bumpers installed. For instance, someone who has invested in a high-engagement hub might now feel a need for this product to offset the kickback they are feeling. Oops. Over the years, I've owned various bikes, including: Motocross bikes Sport bikes Mountain bikes with different suspension designs: High-pivot Santa Cruz Horst-Link Giant Pseudo Horst-link Scott Knolly with a "Four Bar" linkage These experiences have shown me that suspension design plays a crucial role. Recently, I moved to a concentric axle pivot bike with a 10° hub engagement angle, which has been slightly disappointing in pedal kickback when the suspension cycles deeply in the two lowest gears. I knew this going in though. Overall, it seems that: Suspension design is the primary factor Hub engagement angle is a secondary consideration.

[@th_js]

Your channel is one of the few actually good MTB channels on KZbin. 👍🏻

[@LallerHU]

As you mentioned big braking point came to my mind: that you could still have some float during rear wheel lock ups since the cranks are not blocked by the chain. More and more interested...

[@josmaple5171]

That comparative footage of your chain flapping around at whistler is interesting! Looks like O chain will prolong chain and chain ring life! And reduce riding noise! Nice for those elements alone without even touching on its intended purpose

[@LookasMTB]

Another very informative review Brian 👍 I'm also a flat pedal rider on G1 so find your reviews very relevant to my riding , long this may continue 😀 I alredy made the changes to my setup after your G1 review and Im really pleased with the results , seems that ochain might be the next thing on the agenda 😂 Thanks a lot

[@DarrenSmith-x6h]

Great review

[@briancahal]

Thanks!

[@JustSnowglow]

6:47 Totally. Have you seen Vorsprung's video on pedal kickback? Steve argues that a lot of pedal kickback is caused by chain slap, not just chain growth. Edit: that reminds me, that was one of the marketing points of the STFU chain damper things. Have you ever tried them?

[@mikaelolofsson9156]

Love your videos ❤

[@JeremyFacer]

I feel like the o chain removes the sensation of chain tug on the pedals, which creates a quieter feeling ride in the feet. Pedal kickback doesn’t really exist unless you’re going very slowly over steps with the breaks on. (Not a scientist just info I’ve heard from other KZbin and bike articles)

[@bullit4x]

Thanks man. Solid review /video. Explained it heaps better than all the tech video people (pinkbike, gmbn, etc) using all the buzz word mumba jumbo. You nailed it. Simple, to the point. Just saved me a ton of money. I’m not an elite racer. Just a 50+ cat-2 dh. So marginal gains that I would never notice. (Plus I run clips). Also. Wouldn’t a hub with less pawl engagement basically do the same thing as an o-chain?

[@BrandinBowler]

A low engagement hub would sometimes do the same thing but half the time it would not since you could be anywhere from 10% to 0% from engagement at any time on a 10 degree hub.

[@kingflynxi9420]

I remember you talking about using SRAMano 11 speed to get the sprung weight down, too. I wonder If the O-Chain would even make any difference with a bunch of heavy T-Type bits on the back.

[@A_Life_Behind_Bars]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just run a hub with fewer than 40 engagement points as that would provide more than 9 degrees of play? Why pay more for a higher engagement hub just to remove it by spending more on an O-Chain? Am I missing something?

[@dhrracer]

Some people are doing this, and I think Pinkbike covered it a little. I don't think it works exactly in the same manner. The degrees in rotation before the palls engage is always changing. Perhaps Brian could do a back-to-back with a low engagement hub and a standard chainring vs the O-Chain with a high engagement hub.

[@A_Life_Behind_Bars]

@@dhrracer Yeah I guess that does make sense that it would only be 9 degrees for just a blip after each of the 40 engagement points and then rapidly decrease to essentially 0 degrees as the next one is engaged.

[@RacingRalphEVO]

I was wondering the same. But it may be about the consistency/worse case behavior. With a high angle engagement hub you can get all the the free play, you can get none of it. So you may get a strong kick sometimes and still suffer on technical climbs. Having an ochain makes sure that you have always a certain ammount of deadzone to counter chain kickback so it’s better than a high angle engagement hub. So tl;dr considering worst case scenarios: 1. Low angle engagement hub: bad for kickback, good for pedaing 2. High angle engagement hub: bad for kickback, bad for pedaling 3. Low angle engagement hub + ochain: good for kickback, bad for pedaling 4. High angle engagement hub + ochain: good for kickback, very bad for pedaling

[@Shawn-in-da-Canyon]

I know what you mean by freeing up mental energy. It’s great when everything just works right and you don’t have to think about.

[@treyblakeandrew]

The o-chain offers damping. A low engagement hub will kinda slam and even exaggerate the feeling of pedal kick

[@Emtbtoday]

Would this work on a bosch motor? Might be what an ebike needs to take up some of tension on the chain, but just for going forward as the motors chain ring moves backwards on the ebike for kickback without crank moving back

[@jockardl]

But can't you also minimize pedal kickback by using a lower engagement hub or just shifting into a lower gear?

[@Kev2Bee]

By" lower gear" you mean smaller cog?

[@51im]

My thoughts exactly. My standard 16 tooth Shimano hub has about 22 degrees of float at the wheel which should equal about 7½ degrees at the crank if my math's are correct. The O'chain looks like it will get super gritty after a few runs too.

[@milesjcarter]

Sounds like a version with some kind of lockout for riding uphill could be a big deal

[@kellmurphy1344]

Honestly I don’t notice mine on the way up at all. I really thought it would bug me but I honestly forget it’s here.

[@AndresMoraAFM]

The new one actually does have a lockout setting accessible from the outside

[@thinkaboutit3011]

Its the tech rocky climbs that your fighting for traction and balance while avoiding pedal strikes. I got a wheel with low engagement and the slop threw me off so much i felt like it was my first time on a bike lol ​@kellmurphy1344

[@haydenbristow91]

The new versions literally have adjustable range and lockout with a turn of a dial.

[@testtesttesttesttest884]

Does this technically give you less platform to push against for jumps and quick inputs?

[@hotel1257]

You get used to it. On slow technical and jumping over rocks and roots it might affect you but I have no problem doing bunny hops etc with ochain.

[@testtesttesttesttest884]

@@hotel1257 interesting

[@pathfindr_]

I think most people don't realize how many things affect the ride quality. Just going from a 32T to a 28T in chainring size will almost double the amount of pedal kickback in the smallest cogs. This can be really bad on some bikes. However I think that an idler pulley + STFU is the way to go for the smoothest ride, especially under braking. The O-Chain is a nice in between solution, but kind of gimmicky.

[@dhrracer]

I would say it creates free play/slop, it does not take it up.

[@briancahal]

Ya worded that incorrectly haha

[@adoonjackson2605]

Do you think this would make that big of an impact on the dreadnought?

[@fabulousfabrications1985]

Yes finally a product that makes it feel like I’ve got a broken crank yes !!!!! No thank you!!!!

[@billydeewilliams8909]

I'm a pretty new rider, so I don't have a ton of awareness of the issue, but I think I might want to try a few chainless runs at the park before I invest in a bunch of new chainrings. What flat pedals do you use? I've been running Crankbrothers Stamp 7 for a long time (I bought like five sets when I was brand new and before I knew what I was looking for when it came to reviews and such) and now that I'm riding a lot harder, I have been noticing a lot of issues with my feet being in the wrong position, which just kills confidence, and I come to find out that the Stamps are potentially a bit lacking in grip.

[@briancahal]

My favorite pedal is the bike proof Sam Hill dh. Dmr vault and burgtec mk5 are also really good. I’ve seen people run longer pins on the stamps to get more grip but overall not the stickiest pedal

[@billydeewilliams8909]

@@briancahal Much appreciated. The Vault also scores really highly on Vital MTB's showdown excel sheet thing. Unfortunately I couldn't find the Sam Hill on sale, but I found a good deal on a set of Vaults, and they'll be here in time for the weekend.

[@rocky6162]

dagga pedals have a huge area which can help with the foot in the wrong position issue. they have long ass pins too

[@billydeewilliams8909]

@@rocky6162 Dagga are also high on my own list, probably will try them at some point. I wish I could just experiment, but pedals are just so dang pricey.

[@dhrracer]

Brian have you been on the Commencal Supreme V5?

[@briancahal]

I have not

[@Trevor2458Italia]

Would you run it full time on an enduro bike?

[@briancahal]

Yes

[@RiderP411]

Maybe a longer pedal platform can help with your feet stability. Catalyst pedals from pedaling innovations it what I'm suggesting. As normal pedals put too much stress on ankles.

[@cegalleta]

For $50, ok, maybe For $300+, I'll just laugh when they go bankrupt

[@birdsandtrees]

Literally every WC DH rider uses these. Ton of EDR people too.

[@Kev2Bee]

@@birdsandtrees Only because they are contracted to the design offered by the bike brand. They use this device as a band-aid to a problem they cant' alter.

[@birdsandtrees]

@@Kev2Bee I think it’s more about marginal gains at that level than anything. But really I just trying to make the point that you don’t see many brands that are widely used by WC racers going bankrupt.

[@birdsandtrees]

@@Kev2Bee Frameworks team uses ochain and Neko is literally custom building the best bike for his needs that he can.

[@birdsandtrees]

@@dezzydiamond7121 who is he scamming? The couple hundred people that have been able to buy a frame?

[@stefanochiesa]

I love your videos :) but what about having a hub with less engagement? We keep spending money on things that are not needed for mtb!

[@livefreeandshred9818]

Just put a shitty hub on the bike.