Objects of Crisis: The Meroe head of Augustus

This week, classicist and Museum trustee, Mary Beard joins Hartwig to discuss iconoclasm in Ancient Rome and what that can tell us about the current debates around removing statues in the modern public space.
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Images:
Statue of Edward Colston, The Centre, Bristol; Image: Simon Cobb
Bristol on Sunday, 7 June 2020: Black Lives Matter sympathetic protesters have torn down philanthropist and slaves trader Edward Colston's statue Image: Gwydion M. Williams/flickr.com
The empty pedestal of the statue of Edward Colton in Bristol, the day after protesters felled the statue and rolled it into the harbour. The ground is covered with Black Lives Matter placards. Image: Caitlin Hobbs.
Under creative commons: creativecommons.org/publicdom...
#Iconoclasm #HearttoHartwig

[@CrisSelene]

It's always lovely to see Mary Beard. I could listen to her speak so passionately about Ancient Rome all day every day

[@ATINKERER]

That old witch steals other people's ideas and then takes credit for them. She never had an original idea in her life.

[@MrAwrsomeness]

@@ATINKERER not to mention her liberal feminist bias colours all her narrative.

[@katiegriffin9354]

Great to see Mary beard on the channel

[@MithrilMagic]

88Gibson LesPaul Same! I’m loving it!

[@pfranks75]

She is an informed historian and teacher.

[@SpirusOfH]

Listening to Mary Beard speak it always feels like I should be paying for this stuff. She effortlessly and seamlessly goes from telling this great story about the Roman empire's border struggles to talking about modern-day philosophical issues with problematic statues. It's phenomenal!

[@shellyhill6804]

Mary so clearly loves her subject and is so brilliant.... I admire her incredibly. And I’d like a look around that library...

[@TheSuzberry]

Shelly Hill - I love Mary. She is so delightful.

[@ATINKERER]

That old witch steals other people's ideas and then takes credit for them. She never had an original idea in her life.

[@shellyhill6804]

@@ATINKERER Who hurt you?

[@ATINKERER]

@@shellyhill6804 She took credit for my idea.

[@timsmith6675]

Wise words from a wise person. Thank you @The British Museum for trying to educate us and thank you @Mary Beard for your candor.

[@davidrenton]

but they won't even acknowledge the museum founder Sir Hans Sloane, some history too tough for the British museum, too inconvenient.It's looks like the rot has set in at the BM as well.

[@repeatdefender6032]

I LOVE Mary Beard! She’s very much a person I’d like to have a pint with.

[@SLemon-xz6bo]

Me too and I dont even drink.

[@repeatdefender6032]

@@SLemon-xz6bo me neither!! 🤣🤣🤣 I’d suffer a tooth full for the occasion though.

[@RichMitch]

Could listen to Mary Beard talk Roman's all day

[@claudiadicera3680]

Professor Mary Beard is amazing! Please, is possible to have other discusses with her?

[@JohnyG29]

discussions*

[@erikasantoshafitness348]

My favorite too!

[@bellerichmond4149]

Have you watched Life in the Real Pompeii with Mary Beard? Highly recommend! I found it on the “Absolute History” channel

[@ATINKERER]

That old witch steals other people's ideas and then takes credit for them. She never had an original idea in her life.

[@fuferito]

I'm so early that Augustus still went by the name, Octavian.

[@DulceN]

Octavius Augustus.

[@sisuguillam5109]

@BLUE DOG if he had been you would have had a problem with that.

[@sisuguillam5109]

@BLUE DOG Your european history? Erm... Yours and that of the 58 other channels you created to follow yourself?

[@visi7754]

Who cares or gives a £u

[@bobcharlie2337]

The same way she points out the views on statutes, I think about when I see the manors and large mansions shown on British documentaries. I like how we learn about something and think about its impact. Mary Bread is great.

[@ATINKERER]

That old witch steals other people's ideas and then takes credit for them. She never had an original idea in her life.

[@theoldar]

Always good to see Mary Beard!

[@TheTeacher1020]

I love this woman. Everything she says is fascinating. Imagine attending one of her lectures! Thanks for uploading, British Museum.

[@ferrispictures]

Excellent. I love a bit of quiet, reasoned balance, instead of vituperative ranting (which I am very good at myself).

[@MithrilMagic]

Same face I make when someone texts me a photo of their very homely baby. “Oh wow! Look at...all of those curls!”

[@Orcman666]

Mary Beard is the David Attenborough of ancient history.

[@allypicard9673]

Love Mary Beard!

[@JahRandom]

Dear British Museum: I love, love, *LOVE* absolutely _all_ of your content and hope against hope that I will one day be fortunate enough to visit your amazing facility. However, what I am here to say is: *WE WANT MORE OF THE WONDEROUS MARY BEARD!!!* But I am not exaggerating in the slightest. Every documentary, lecture, or video I see her in leaves me dying for more and this one is no exception; and I am more than certain that I am far from the only one who feels this way. So, my suggestion to you is that if you desire to draw more attention to your KZbin channel, your facility in general, or whatever it may be: get more of the amazing and incomparable Mrs. Beard on there! I promise you that you cannot go wrong when it comes to her as a presenter. There, quite simply, is _no_ one better (well, besides Irving Finkel who she is tied with. But he's a wholeee other story...lol). Yours truly, A massive history buff named Jim

[@britishmuseum]

Thank you JahRandom. Glad you're enjoying the content. I'm sure you'll be seeing more of Mary soon too.

[@RichMitch]

Statue looks like it's just had some bad news!

[@theresahemminger1587]

Rich Mitch remember you would be seeing it from beneath not head-on. Entirely different look you get a brief look at.

[@RichMitch]

@@theresahemminger1587 need to finesse a camera shot from the angle we'd be seeing it at

[@helenkatsouris17]

Love listening to Mary Beard, makes everything so interesting and looking at the head of Augustus he could be anyone from the modern world. Goes to show we haven't changed in 2000 years.

[@timothyamaraobrien]

Brilliant discussion...it opened my mind. Mary Beard has long been one of my great heroes.

[@0therun1t21]

This lady is really fum to listen to! She makes me interested in things I normally wouldn't be.

[@makeprofitnow8334]

0:42 Hair Restoration Preparation kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6Hcp3abf62Ud6c

[@trop8605]

great video! would watch again!

[@nicolanci8879]

I clicked as soon as I saw Mary Beard. She's so fun and clearly passionate about her subject, I would love to see more of her

[@ComplainingHenry]

Typically, a diacritic should be used on the "e" of Meroe (Meroë). Hence, the correct pronunciation is "Meh-row-ay" (three syllables). This avoids confusion with another place in Sudan - a modern town called "Merowe" that has nothing to do with the archaeological site of Meroë.

[@Crowhillgal]

Excellent discussion! Love to see Mary Beard speaking. It’s always enlightening listening to her talk. Thank you!

[@ohmyblindman]

The eyes are very jarring, but remember that one would be looking up from below at some bit of distance.

[@helenlawson8426]

Good point, it also wood have been quite brightly painted so the eyes would have just been part of what to our modern tastes a very over the top gaudy statue.

[@JaneDoe-ci3gj]

That statue must have really sent the message, the emperor is watching you!

[@faithlesshound5621]

It would be interesting to fit other Greek and Roman busts and statues (or their replicas) with enamelled eyes and painted skin and clothing, just to see how the effect differs from the ghosts we are used to.

[@samdefore2692]

@@helenlawson8426 it’s a bronze statue, as you can see from the head, she also mentions it. So no “painting” Romans didn’t make statues out of wood, plaster maybe. Empires statues were marble, bronze or stone.

[@helenlawson8426]

@@samdefore2692 my mistake I just read it back and 'wood' is a spelling mistake and should have been 'would', the sentence makes more sense then. Not sure about bronze statues but certainly all others would be more likely to have been painted than not.

[@stancampbell3]

Mary Beard is a star. Shine on.

[@joshmann2525]

This is such a fascinating series on crisis. Thank you for this gift to the earths peoples.

[@madaug5101]

This was very interesting, thank you.

[@nelle7387]

I would love to see more Mary Beard. She is fascinating!

[@stephenearnshaw6198]

Magnificent discussion . Many thanks

[@TesterAnimal1]

Had a look at this while at a loose end in ThatLondon. Dived into the Brit Museum for a couple of hours looking at Assyria, Greece and Rome. Fantastic place!

[@IntrinsicPalomides]

Much better audio levels! I could listen to Mary talk forever.

[@np0804]

Mary is very thoughtful on this subject as on so many others.

[@Terri_MacKay]

You forgot to add, Mary Beard...freaking LEGEND!!! ♥️♥️

[@richcox1236]

"The earth belongs to the living"

[@harley419]

Very relevant to the news now. Great stuff

[@thorstree7989]

'The iron hand crush'd the tyrant's head and became a tyrant in his stead'

[@mikiberge6427]

Thank you for this very illuminating discussion that opened a far wider issue of statues’ place in society today.

[@WilliamRezendeQuintal]

Lovely and brilliant

[@jessica-fcm]

I love Mary Beard!

[@steph_ad]

more mary content!! i wanna hear more about her favourite museum pieces.

[@tulkas399]

So cool!

[@John.0z]

It is great to see Mary on KZbin. It has been a little while since I have seen her in a TV documentary. One point, if I dare. There seems to me to be a parallel between what the people of Meroe did with that head, and what the British have done with so many items from all around the world. Many are similarly taken as a part of some sort of violent action, and "buried" in the British Museum storage areas, unavailable for public viewing. Nor is the British Museum willing to repatriate them, although one or two have been returned to the culture that created them. That is not an aspect of these statues etc that you mentioned.

[@pattheplanter]

Having retired from piracy, we British should be returning more of our loot to its rightful owners.

[@John.0z]

@@pattheplanter I am sure the Greeks would like to get the Elgin Marbles back for starters.

[@rockey13gt]

@@pattheplanter I'm not British, but this is ridiculous. The entire world have engaged in conquest and looting, for instance if you visit the museums of Turkey today you will find a lot of items that were looted from regions that were under Ottoman rule (like the purported personal items of the prophet of Isl*m), and guess what? they're not planning on giving any of it back. At least countries in western Europe had the decency to preserve items of historical significance in safe places for the rest of the world to see, because all of war loot in human history was sold.

[@rockey13gt]

Believe or not folks BM had blocked my comment when it had that one word (now censored). I don't usually critisie that specific religion or any religion for that matter because I don't know all the roles it plays in human life and whether it's overall positive or not, but do people in UK believe their government should decide what topic they can have an opinion about?

[@miraclemay24]

Interesting topic. I was wondering about such a topic for a while given the fact statues have been a topic of political discussion

[@theresahemminger1587]

Yes, I’d like to see that. It was shown with a rapid on and off. The statues were usually colored and occasionally dressed for someone as important as a god or emperor

[@federicaruggiano7359]

Nel sentire questo video non riesco a smettere di pensare che le riflessioni e le conclusioni di entrambi sono riflessioni e conclusioni che partono da studiosi .... anglosassoni. C'è qualcosa nella mia formazione mentale che mi impedisce di condividerle. Certo sarà una mia limitazione :))

[@MookVapes]

Are Duane Hanson sculptures more art than statue?

[@censusgary]

Meroe’s army looted the bronze head of Augustus and brought it to their own capital. It’s kind of appropriate that the head is now in the British Museum, which is famously full of treasures the British swiped from other countries around the world.n

[@Wayzor_]

Of course Professor Beard has a beautiful stained glass relief in her study.

[@CHAS1422]

I imagine the iconoclasts in 6th century Rome walking the arcades of the coliseum, and one-by-one pushing the statues over the edge to smash on the ground below. The marble then gathered to be taken to the kiln to be burnt into lime as a key ingredient for making pozzolana concrete. Why not take down the arch of Constantine with its statues of Decian Slaves on the top? Trajan was a slave trader. So were all emperors.

[@helenlawson8426]

The overwhelmingly vast amount of statues being taken down in America were only put up at the start of the 1900s when a rise in white clan members decided to try and rewrite history showing the traitors I the South as actually some kind of heroic figures. Most of the statues are poorly made cheap crap just rushed into place to make sure everyone knew who was top dog if you know what I mean. Here in the UK only a tiny number handful of statues have actually been removed or even come under questioning, despite what you would think from all the ' I'm not a racists but!' brigade the vast majority of statues are still in place. If you can't see the difference between the Roman Empire and the Slave Trade and British Empire which is only now starting to drift from living history then you shouldn't be on a history page. Having a love of history is not the same as loving all those who were part of it.

[@CHAS1422]

@@helenlawson8426 Actually the confederate statues for the most part were well made of cast bronze or carved in marble. From an artistic and industrial standpoint many are very impressive. I've worked in a foundry before, and bronze work takes a lot of skill. From a political standpoint they suck, I agree, but they are history. In actuality many of the Southern Generals were very competent military operators. Only a few of the generals could match their tactics and strategies. I see the best situation is to remove them from civic spots and place in a battlefield park. Thats about it.

[@kidmohair8151]

for a more detailed and drawn out dissertation by Dr Beard, on this very subject, do please hunt out her book, How Do We Look, from 2018.

[@kidmohair8151]

it would have been written a fair while before the recent events that have called into question the cultural significance of statues. Rather presciently.

[@nielsnielsen6]

Proof of what Prof. Beard is saying is found in the history of Rome. Most of the statues of Emperors were destroyed when they died (or more likely when they were killed). Two millenia later, we remember all of them.

[@thefilmandmusic]

20 yrs old with Agrippa fight a battle against Brutus and Cassius at Philppi....

[@MoritzvonSchweinitz]

Wasn't this covered in the awesome history of the world in 100 objects series?

[@pattheplanter]

Yes. Another 15 minutes, audio only - for another view of the head. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b00sbrz7

[@faithlesshound5621]

Edward Colston's statue may have historical relevance, but it was obfuscated by those who put it up in 1895 (he died in 1721) and those who prevaricated for decades over adding an explanatory sign that his wealth came from his membership of the Royal African Company in London. When it went up, Victorians had for most of the century been painting over the black slaves in their family portraits. The Society of Merchant Venturers (who put that statue up) is a renowned charity in Bristol, but their publications don't make clear that their wealth also came from slavery. It was a bunch of schoolgirls who made that public knowledge some years ago and started the debate about the institutions named after him.

[@janicewhite1113]

when Mary speaks about the Romans you just know what she tells you is completely correct, I think she may have been a Roman in another life!

[@carlosarturoguerrerosegura9246]

The deepest representation we keep of someone lies on our memory, how that person made us felt, as an icon an statue do not express nothing more of being an inert material representation of that temporal existence decaying gradually till the point of death. Memory encloses concepts as gratitude, and leaves on us an indeleble mark. Maybe someone who needs an statue need this testimony to be remembered otherwise should face the reality of being forgotten. It’s not important but I haven’t seen in Bogotá the first statue of mother Teresa de Calcuta, but I recognise in her one of the greatest feminine figures in history.

[@zaftra]

Started out about a Roman statue, ended up left wing propaganda

[@gregoryrollins59]

A 1000 years from now no one will remember Sylvester Stallone, but Rocky balboa will be remembered as a boxing legion. Lol. Peace and agap'e.

[@mm-yt8sf]

to add more paths that can lead to the present, a statue could be put up by contemporaries who shared the world view of the person being and over time values changed and it didn't age well vs people who put it up much later *because* they wanted to show approval for values that had already started to change. one is less innocent than the other. and to make it even more murky, it's possible that the cover story for choosing the statue might be so widespread that a portion of the people believe it to be the only reason. can offensiveness be proven by formula or is it completely determined by the (unknowable without mind reading) deepest intention of statue raiser..or some point in between...and how does one describe/know that point?

[@danielintheantipodes6741]

I like Prof Beard's reference to 'modern self-righteousness'. I am glad to see the Colton statue torn down, but never forget that slavery still exists often in disguised formats. Human beings working in ghastly conditions in factories which pay them less than enough to barely survive, I call them slaves, even if they do have a nominal freedom. This world is a mess.

[@chuckschumer7783]

Says the hypocrite posting from an iPhone made by slaves

[@danielintheantipodes6741]

@@garrettbischoff3817 Good morning. I do not own 'expensive looking clothing'! Which bag? There are no photos on youtube? Where did you see this bag?! I am confused.

[@danielintheantipodes6741]

@@chuckschumer7783 Are you not also posting from an iphone? Or a PC made in the same place?! It is not hypocrisy to remind ourselves of these matters. I need it as much as anyone else.

[@craigb7967]

Slavery was a universal idea that was accepted by many different civilisations and people going back 1000’s of years. Even today it still exists in some parts of the World which we all should be condemning. However in most modern societies we have come along way and should consider those people in the past who were ignorantly involved in what we all now know was a terrible industry. Removing a statue does nothing but hide the historical facts while giving the people who removed it a temporary sense of grandeur and self righteousness that only serves them so they can say I did something without a thought for what the majority of others think and feel. How far do we go with this? Do we then look at architecture and decide it should be removed because it was also funded by the slave trade. Our history is what makes who we are today. We learn from it so as not to repeat the same mistakes as those in the past.

[@grudgin1877]

The glory of man is death.

[@SandyRiverBlue]

I think that problematic statues should be painted in a color-coding of sorts. They need to be painted, relatively regularly with weather-proofing anyway, so something like Green for slave owners, Red for slave traders...etc. Yeah, this will make them targets to some extremists but it will allow the general public to more immediately see who was who, and the more moderate people in society may feel that a certain amount of justice was meted out. And I'm not saying we use bright colors here, they could be darker in color so that you actually have to walk up to it to see what color they actually are. Or we could go more artistic/symbolic and color in their clothes with the aforementioned colors.

[@JayJoestarr]

Kingdom of Kush 🥴

[@K-FOREST_Original]

What I always feel when I see old/old artifacts, How did you produce such a great work in those days?

[@technodruid]

How come if I made a video about all the stuff I stole and what the meaning behind it all was I get arrested...

[@pattheplanter]

You would get a lot of views on youtube, though. Go for it.

[@joedavis4150]

... :-)... Clearly, this bronze head is saying, you let me run out of toilet paper??!!

[@craigmignone2863]

The Romans had the trade goods ............

[@saharahashaart2802]

The eyes of Augustus are not set in their sockets properly, but are popping out. Things just aren't right right now. 🔕👀

[@gerryhouska2859]

No admirer of statues, I would prefer adding a plaque with an explanation to inform passers by of who that so honoured person actually was.

[@baylorcmh]

I must have missed the point. I thought this was about the Meroe statue not a political discourse on statues (is this BBC or BM?]

[@pattheplanter]

Statues are, by their nature, generally political. You cannot understand the meaning of a statue of a Roman Emperor without understanding politics.

[@IDPYouTube]

@@pattheplanterThe discussion is supposed to be about the stated statue and any political context IT had. It went off the rails due to the agendas of the individuals here who care less about history than their personal politics.

[@pattheplanter]

@@IDPKZbin The video description tells us exactly what this video is supposed to be about and you are objectively wrong. If it offends you that historians might discuss current politics then you can avoid it quite easily by reading the description and then finding another video that fits with your expectations of sterile dead history.

[@radwulfeboraci7504]

:54 Nobody fully explained 'orgy' to him.

[@Moamanly]

When will the British Museum return the Elgin Marbles to Greece?

[@jonasdrejerjensen]

"Why was it in the British Museum?" Oh wow they tend to want to avoid those questions.

[@bozo5632]

Who would you give it back to?

[@WilliamGarrow]

@@bozo5632 Stealing is wrong.

[@IDPYouTube]

The discussion is supposed to be about the stated statue and any political context IT had. It totally went off the rails due to the agendas of these two and I wondered what I was supposed to be watching was just a bait and switch to get me into woke politics of uni professors who care more about their own agendas than history.

[@user-vl2mr8mr5u]

Aw I live seeing the disrespect the Nubians laid on rome

[@vgovger4373]

Did they have marijuana back then?

[@seekersystems]

Statue as cultural traffic cone.

[@ikeekieeki]

this dude's head is a meme

[@deepasampathkumar]

I really want to listen to the content of Mary Beard. But her fillers ums somehow just gets me to turn off. I understand I am a very tiny minority.

[@jeeperspeepers8323]

Deepa Kumar I’m with you on this one.

[@faithlesshound5621]

The answer is obvious. Don't listen to her on radio or TV: read her books instead.

[@margo3367]

More statue, less conjecture.

[@DABEEZ737]

2:20 Romes awkwardly hostile neighbours... but of course we don't see it that way Mary.

[@jameswilliams1085]

Strange....they stopped talking about Augustus and went on a sideteack about modern day identity polítics. A shame.

[@wordcell_.on-twitter]

Beard is interesting and has interesting takes; hartwig isn't and doesn't.

[@user-oh7cm7cn3f]

ㄏㄏㄏ.水分子是二氫一氧.因此在空氣含氧量高時.施放氫氣.或空氣含氫量高時.施放氧氣.都會造成下雨.而為避免有人刻意製造天災.氫氧電氣遭管制..許多國家元首.必須.德.智.體.群.美.兼具.因為那是教育的目的.而官員必須清廉.因為必須擔保款項出入.早期拾金不昧.熱心助人.整理環境.每月或每年.區長都會頒發獎狀或獎金.但是現在不知道頒獎給甚麼人.會不會是選舉當選後.連領獎人都早就排好?或是政黨買賣官銜.圖利或醜化特定縣市造成??聽聞近年常有公職撿到錢包.未繳交警局.遭側錄而被革職.是真的嗎?老人雖有經驗及存款.但容易生病死亡或家累太多或負債.不適合當官員!!!!有人說吃鹼粽{甜粽}.被送毒品罪.之後還被送製造毒品.也有人說.他為了證明他做得不是毒品.而刻意調製鮮味精.後來賣得很好.其過程大略是.將鹽加入食材.調製成美味的鮮味晶.而添加微量酸鹼的原因是.鹽常含有海砂貝殼的殘骸.容易阻塞..有點廚師經驗應該都知道這些常識..

[@mrnancy1114]

???????..

[@ilonapapp7559]

Instead of theorizing how did that statue get where it was found which in fact is pure guesswork I would have enjoyed to hear about the artistry and beauty of it. Plus the whole dialogue struck me as politically in the moment, this moment, when I was expecting to be transformed into a moment two millennia before. A shame in my opinion.

[@faithlesshound5621]

Statues of the emperor MAY have been artistic and beautiful, but that was beside the point. They were put up in temples throughout the empire to emphasise his power, and that of Rome, not least over the worshippers where it was set up.

[@samkostos4520]

So in your interpertation of history these black people stole a giant statue of Augustus from Egypt carried it down stream against currents along the Nile and then buried his head under a holy temple dedicated to an Egyptian god? This is sponsered by the british museum correct?

[@samkostos4520]

Do you have evidence of other heads of rival enimes being buried underneath holy temples?

[@samkostos4520]

You speak as thou we have some claim to Rome. You realize UK was among the LAST provinces included into the Empire. Augustus was described as dark to fair skin with bad teeth. There is no documented history of a war agianst people living in the south. There is no oral tradition of such events. There are no Roman bodies or Roman arrows,spears located suggesting a battle site. Why are you making these assertions?

[@JoeSmith-rh1hc]

I came for talk about a statue, but I guess this is all about contemporary history.

[@chuckschumer7783]

Totally craven to BLM, a self declared Marxist organisation

[@JoeSmith-rh1hc]

Chuck Schumer well yes, but I like to keep politics out of my daily life.

[@1882osr]

@@chuckschumer7783 Clearly the discussion went right over someone's head. History is always interconnected with the present, the fact you kneejerked this hard because there are interesting parallels and tangents to explore just goes to show you much our present moment impacts our perspectives and judgements. But yeah talking about what statues mean, what their function is and why the head of a statue coming from a rival power adds to our understanding of this is actually all bowing down to the evil organisation you're convinced needs eulegising against on a youtube video and not a chance for you to sit back and have a think at all.

[@JoeSmith-rh1hc]

HIROW that’s coming in a little harsh

[@sisuguillam5109]

@@JoeSmith-rh1hc Not really. My answer would have been harsher.

[@DABEEZ737]

Wow... All because it was found in Africa.. And no mention of African people convieniently and Kush had a copy cat culture with elements from Rome, Greece, Asia and Kemet.. What is this guilt complex all about Mary??

[@francesquinn-escott744]

Disappointed in too much cringing moral value and not nearly enough about the actual piece.

[@somebloke13]

I'm a great can of Mary Beard, I have several of her books, but I'm afraid the whole debate was frame by Marxism. No mention that slavery was perfectly legal at the time. No mention of the fact Britain ended slavery in most of the world No mention that we borrowed so much money in the 1830's to end slavery we didn't pay the debt off until 2015 No mention of African slavers raiding England No mention of the active participation of African tribes in slavery No mention that there are more people in slavery now than at any other time in history, and the West isn't involved No mention of the other notorious slavers of the past And no mention of the recent statues being pulled down my unelected Marxist mobs and not via the ballot box. At best politically correct pandering, at worst useful idiots for the people who want to erase our culture and history Mao style.

[@sisuguillam5109]

So many words... and yet you show so little understanding of their actual meanings. And, dude, marxism and maoism aint the same thing.

[@helenlawson8426]

Perfect psychological example of White Fragility in action. Well done. Oh and I wouldn't mention the 1830 payment unless you fully understand what happened. It was actually a failure in the eyes of abolitionists as they wanted to end slavery by winning what they saw as a moral battle, in the end the Government 'Bought' the Slaves of their 'Owners' and in doing so set them free. Just to rub in how hollow a moral victory it was slaves had to work six years for free. There were also delay/exemptions made in some colony's and companies. Still the bit about us ending slavery in most of the world is right, ok it took thirty years from ending slave trading to ending slavery and only happened because of a pay off, also we didn't end slavery everywhere even though we were yes the biggest Empire in the World. Until we can look at our past without saying 'but' then no we are not truly sorry about our past. Above all the time it took to pay off the purchase of all those slaves means that via taxes they and their following generations helped pay for their own freedom... but hey not something for them to get annoyed about and anyway they're all Communists and anyway other people were bad so it's unfair to point the finger at us Brits, plus real history is only nice stuff and if people keep wanting to talk about our past in a bad way I'm going to tell my Mum!

[@rockey13gt]

@@helenlawson8426 Why should Europeans only be sorry about crimes that were also committed by the rest of the world? are they less than the rest of the world?

[@helenlawson8426]

@@rockey13gt Thank you you highlight the very issue we in the UK have, we're like the spoilt child when caught doing wrong who point to the others with them rather than face up to what they have done. Honour, empathy, courage, these are all things that come from within not bought & sold or measured against others. The problem the rest of the world have with us Brits is we are still tied to this myth the British Empire wasn't like all the others and somehow we were always good for all the Countries we robbed of their sovereignty & resources. As Mitchel & Webb famously said 'Our we the baddies?'. It's not that the British Empire didn't do some good, it's just not losing sight of the fact it was a conquering force that once took control of half of the world. The same for Slavery it existed before the British Empire but we industrialised it and took it to scale never seen before. It's not that we have to continuously apologise just be able to admit what our Empire did without always having to try to excuse what happened.

[@rockey13gt]

@@helenlawson8426 "we're like the spoilt child when caught doing wrong who point to the others with them" It's more like a group of children caught doing wrong and only one of them gets singled out and punished.

[@jamesianv]

tells me we ont value our history even the curators think its more important to show themselves than the artifact, not even one frame in its entirety? thts our culture today sick . leftism.

[@IDPYouTube]

Exactly.

[@MarkMackenzievortism]

Don't remove statues you bloody muppets.

[@brobro997]

No 👹 we do what we want and we admire who we want to admire 👹👹👹 try to stop us 👹👹👹

[@ATINKERER]

That old witch steals other people's ideas and then takes credit for them. She never had an original idea in her life.