Octopus Energy: Exciting Announcement | Energy Tech Summit

[@Jaw0lf]

I have an ASHP and have not had any difficulty keeping the house warm. I am with Octopus and love their approach for energy. Having Ripple as part of their billing is also fantastic as I am seeing very low bills and even negative bills in the summer. I love that Octopus understand all of the sources that provide electricity and support all the clean energy options. Putting these in easy to understand options for customers is a win for everyone.

[@ooweesaler]

The country needs more like Greg. What a revelation. I worked on many of the smart grid trials 20 years ago but the industry was too rigid to embrace the changes and opportunities. Here are some of these ideas in reality. Well done you.

[@jamesb2059]

Greg Jackson is terrific. He's done so much to improve the energy industry in the UK, and seems to have a wonderful ethic. He is clealry one of the good guys!

[@TheNdc101]

Good to see this starting to happen. It is undoubtedly the way forward

[@caractacus22]

I believe him. Octopus are my supplier and I accept their solutions.

[@douglascutler1037]

"The assumptions we have today are so wrong in ten years time." Unless you're Tony Seba.

[@timmurphy5541]

great idea. Standards let you mix and match things instead of having to go for one manufacturer. You can also upgrade piecemeal.

[@jazzmickge1]

When it was said that, there is no one who can sort out why one room in your house is cold what the other is too hot. There is an option to fix that issue right now if you run traditional radiators, and it's called 'Radiator Balancing' and any pumber worth his job can sort that for you, without any fancy upgrades. That will make your heating more efficent too through even distribution of heat. Also, never skimp on opitions for insulation.

[@tappers50]

This does sound wonderful the only problem is getting a working smart meter. We have been waiting nearly a year for octopus to install our smart meter (and still no word when it will be done). We have an EV so charging that is more costly than it need be. Even if a smart meter is installed it is doubtful that it will work, many in our area don’t because of the poor signal. There seems to be no compulsion for the companies that supply these signals to ensure they cover all areas.

[@ryuuguu01]

in Japan 10 years ago you could get for free a local phone antenna from the phone companies that plugged into your interconnection and gave local, 30m~200m, phone service. This allowed them to give coverage to small areas that had poor coverage. The data transfer was your responsibility but unlimited data fiber was common in Japan even then. Now I am in Canada and there are houses near me that just don't get coverage from any phone company.

[@ozzyg82]

I don’t understand how it can be cheaper to run than a gas boiler given that the cost of gas is currently at 5.48p per kWh (kilowatt hour) here in the UK, (as of Nov ‘24), while electricity costs more than four times as much, at 22.36p per kWh. I think we need to remember not to conflate energy EFFICIENCY with energy COST, e.g. an electric boiler is more energy EFFICIENT but, because the price of electricity is more expensive than gas, it will likely COST you more in the monthly bills to run.

[@MP-ep9ur]

Because a heat pump gives you a 6x for each kWh consumed advantage. The electricity consumed, only runs a compressor motor.... it doesn't directly heat the water like your gas reference

[@petewright4640]

There is an argument for using electricity to directly heat a thermal mass without the use of a heat pump. It can be used to store heat when supply exceeds demand to use later. Although not as efficient, the use of electrical power when in surplus, and therefore cheap, compensates for the lower efficiency. An example is using rooftop solar to heat domestic storage heaters to provide space heating in the evening and overnight. This can't be easily done with a heat pump because for compact storage of thermal energy the thermal mass reaches needs to reach very high temperatures.

[@philipegging]

Very short days in winter , very little solar power is generated but using cheap overnight electricity for storage radiators works , this was common 50 years ago.

[@petewright4640]

@@philipegging And is a solution that should be resurrected now, especially with the advent of smart control. But no one is talking about it? It's all heat pumps. I gave the example of solar because I have such a system at home but of course surplus can be from wind and at off peak times and that surplus won't be between set times in the middle of the night as it was with Economy7 .

[@rkan2]

The electricity needs to be 4-5x cheaper compared to the heatpump and even then with the heatpump is running when the electricity is next to free it would still make more sense to have a heatpump to heat your thermal mass.

[@petewright4640]

@@rkan2 Wholesale electricity prices vary wildly depending on supply and demand. At peak times it can be several £ per KWhr and when there's over supply price can be 0 or even negative. Also the efficiency of heat pumps drops quickly with the temperature difference between the source and the output. The best off-the-shelf high temperature heat pumps delivering water at 75C have a COP of 3. To store useful amounts of heat at 75C would require a huge heat store which takes up space and is expensive. Best option in that scenario is probably thick concrete floors with underfloor heating.

[@rkan2]

@@petewright4640 Yeah, heating water with just a heat pump can be a pain. But if you are talking UK weather there should be no real problems. I live in Finland and heat pumps is basically the only option since about 10 years ago. Air to air for retrofit, underfloor for new build and electric heating for the last hike in the boiler to get the temperature up. Gas heating was really never a thing here except for some limited district heating and industrial uses.

[@tonrotterdam]

Hoping that Octopus or the Kraken tech is coming to the European continent. The Netherlands is still completely under the influence of big fossil energy companies.

[@christopherhood9241]

having had a heat pump installed a number of years ago it is SO expensive to run. Octopus is making a fortune out of me and the electricity it eats.

[@tlangdon12]

Even old heatpums can be efficient if they are setup correctly in a system that is designed for low temperature operation. Have you have your installation reviewed by an expert?

[@christopherhood9241]

@@tlangdon12 yes - multiple times.

[@tlangdon12]

@@christopherhood9241 Have they been able to explain why you are having problems?

[@jeremymanson1781]

Our heat pump saves us a shedload of money. There must something very wrong with your set up or your home insulation?

[@benh3117]

Ours is great?

[@billholmes3462]

I was an early adopter of a ground source HeatPump with underfloor heating in a new house I built around 16 years ago. Absolutely useless if you love luke warm water to shower in then go for it. If you are happy to live in 18c at most then go for it. Even 16 years ago it cost me £20k and broke down after 2 years. Don’t have gas so use oil boilers which a far cheaper to run and install. They might convert 1kw into 3 but electricity is the most expensive form of heating.

[@patrickoreilly1900]

Sounds like terrible early tech ? We’ve just had an air source HP fitted in our hackney terrace house . Absolutely no drama , house is warmer as heat is on longer but lower through day , instal took 3 days , water is same as it was with combi - on an Ovo heat pump tariff so same costs as before - genuinely no downside all upside

[@rkan2]

Sounds like a really badly designed system and if you call yourself an early adopter having installed ground source heat pump 16 years ago you should really come in to Finland. Here you were an early adopter in the 80s or 90s. 😂

[@albinasuikis8636]

the refrigerant used in new systems is different

[@caractacus22]

I’m in for free beer!

[@robinbennett5994]

Is any of project Mercury going to be Open Source?

[@lharris828]

Hmm! The problem is the lack of Octopus action when customers have problems. Our smart meter stopped communicating with Octopus many days ago but they do not monitor such data losses!!! We cannot get Octopus to **do** anything about it. What do you do to get to spring into action?? Lawrence

[@LfKoda]

Abolish standing charges , I pay more in them than actual gas I use.

[@willpomeroy1743]

Actual Cosy in the wild @ 2:52 ? I couldn't have a Cosy installed because it was next to a window. What has changed?

[@derekclark7545]

Nothing, someone needs to read the installation regulations. Cant believe his just shown that for the world to see, but then some of the things he says are pulling the wool over people eyes.

[@captainmakai]

This has convinced me to swap to Octopus as I’m currently up for renewal.

[@johnmason5626]

You won’t regret it

[@prometheus4130]

@@johnmason5626I second that, moving to Octopus was the best decision

[@susiea1419]

I am a customer but won’t have a heat pump because so many friends who have them have such cold houses that they then burn wood in wood burners! Not environmentally sound😢 I would love one but my 82 year old husband is on blood thinners and feels so cold all the time!

[@tonrotterdam]

Have said friends insulated their homes? If you don't insulate your home a heat pump will have a hard time.

[@petergambrill]

Isn't Matter supposed to solve this eventually? What does Mercury add beyond that?

[@Japnut]

We have a cosy 6 being installed next week. Now I feel sad I'm not getting a cosy 10. 😂

[@yp77738yp77739]

Any know if there are are plans for something larger than a 10 please? Last time I contacted a supplier of heat pumps they said o needed 2 of the largest valiant units and the cost was going to be 5x what it would cost to replace our condensing boiler.

[@thibaultmol]

You're probably fine with their largest unit. Most heat pump installers don't actually know how to properly size a heat pump

[@yp77738yp77739]

@@thibaultmol The 10 unit should be ok for an approx 300m2 energy cert D home in the NW please?

[@yp77738yp77739]

@@thibaultmol I’ve just checked and using a rule of thumb we wouldn’t get away with less than 15kW and possibly a bit more as the insulation isn’t great. But we set our thermostats at 12 C in the winter and wear more clothes, so I don’t know if that impacts the calculation.

[@UpsideDownFork]

Without a proper heat loss survey, the company you've spoken to is just speculating. Very few homes will require more than a single unit. If you are confident with some technical design, the free online heat punk tool is very beginner friendly. Measure your rooms, your windows and doors and see what it calculates for you.

[@mev202]

Hey, please have a proper survey carried out. And most importantly, use a reputable company. People are being sold a Ferrari when they need an escort. (Hope this analogy makes sense)

[@GdaySport]

I've been trying to get Octopus to fix my smart meter for nearly 9 months now because I wanted a smart tariff to work with solar and home battery. After 2 smart meters not working they told me it was because there is no radio signal (for the half hourly meter readings). I was told an economy 7 meter can work without a radio signal, so the engineer turned up to fit that today. And surprise surprise, it's working as a regular meter - one rate total, no time of day tariff metering! How can I trust Octopus to do a heat pump if they can't even get an electric meter working as intended? I'm ripping my hear out and just want a solution that works...

[@susiea1419]

I won’t have a smart meter because so many people have problems. Also I have a coil in my brain which is affected by wireless and fluctuating magnetic signals like a hearing loop leading to severe migraines so it will never be for me

[@ALrugman]

How strange. I had the same situation with Eon. They took out an Economy 7 meter and installed a single rate meter. It took over a year to get them to change it back. I need the assistance of the Ombudsman to get the overcharging refunded.

[@Paul-if1jq]

Greg- I used your solar calculator and it said 12K yet when I move forward the consultant said 13K... You need to fix your calculator, I decided not to proceed.

[@mickeymousegoofey6224]

Did he say 1kw in and more than 1kw out? I thought that was not physically possible?

[@colinhare4722]

You're basically taking heat energy from the air outside of your house. (Technically speaking. all air above -273degC has energy in it) Using the Carnot principle to first compress it, to make it nice and hot for distribution around your house, before expanding it to release back to the outside at colder temperatures than we started with. Using benefits of latent heat we can get these systems to be spectacularly efficient while changing state from liquids to vapours etc. That's why we use refrigerants that transition at low temperatures. All pretty complicated stuff when you get into the detail but the result is that you can put a kw of energy into compressing a refrigerant, that's been heated up by the outside air, to get a 4kw effective heat input to your house.

[@AndyTalbot]

How big is a "medium" sized home?

[@ryuuguu01]

Probably depends on your insulation.

[@robinbennett5994]

Presumably one that has a 10kW heat loss on a cold day. If you have a smart meter, check your old data to see how much gas you used on the coldest days of last winter.

[@AndyTalbot]

@@robinbennett5994 Cheers, that's actually pretty obvious isn't it. Annoyingly the data in my account doesn't go back before Feb, but from what I can see, I probably use 20-40Kwh on average through the colder months.

[@lenrichardson7349]

Unfortunatly when I asked for a quote for a heat pump is was nowhere near a comparible price. £8000 is not an affordable competitor.

[@albinasuikis8636]

why dont they go public and help us to profit and also spread octopus energy further. Going public would make them grow even faster and have even more influence --- but i wonder why they remain private, hehe

[@st200ol]

Agile needs to be cheaper. It’s a great tariff for people like me that watch the prices and hence the green-ness of the grid but at the point when the average price is higher than the standard variable tariff I just can’t justify it anymore.

[@gimbalair]

Fix my meter!

[@liftfan2]

Octopus is great. But, occasionally smart charging fails. Also, sometimes it doesn’t even give me a smart charging schedule when I plug my car in. Also, it can use a kw before it stops charging and gives a smart charge schedule. Needs improvement.

[@simplyr62]

I'm with Octopus and my opinion is they are treating direct debit customers like a cheap source of finance - as I am sure the others all do. They are hiking standing charges to pay for their "investment in green technologies" and sell certified green energy! They can say that because they have an ofgem certificate - BS of the highest order. The grid is made up of a mixture of sources, no one can get 100% green energy (maybe with the exception of the far north of scotland). Still they are making plenty money out of it!

[@GrahamRead101]

The standing charge level has nothing to do with octopus. They have to charge the amount that Ofgem tell them to.

[@goldencherry34]

I amend my monthly direct debit so keeping amount on credit to an absolute minimum

[@andybrice2711]

Hmm. I'm not sure about the appearance of this thing. If we're going to install heat pumps on every house then we need something which sensitively blends into the surrounding landscape. Not something which sticks out like a sore thumb.

[@Darkmatter404]

All these ideas are awesome but the problem is smart meters are just not up to the task.. 3 months and counting now for Octopus to sort out the fact that clock on mine is running slow and is now over 7hrs behind.. not ideal for half hourly billing..

[@davidanderson8591]

I had exactly the same issue, our meter (which was fitted by our previous supplier) was losing a couple of minutes a day. To be fair to Octopus, they fitted a new meter within a month and compensated me for the incorrectly billed use.

[@Darkmatter404]

@@davidanderson8591 It does seem to be a pretty common issue with smart meters and one that would make me hesitant about adopting further new tech right now. I'm really surprised at how long a replacement meter is taking as I haven't been billed for electricity since Octopus acknowledged the issue.

[@marcbiff2192]

Monday 4th November 19.35 total demand UK 37GW total renewables 5GW and we paid how much for this junk?

[@mymusic5772]

Good arguement.What is the point of telling us all to go green and save money.The energy companies fleece us with OVERPRICED standing charges.If there was no standing charge,and we were simply charged for what we use,then we would be more encouraged to save money and go green.I,m not interested in freebies,I,m interested in NO STANDING CHARGES..We are limited to the size of array we can get,We can be paid more for exporting green energy as we have paid to have the hardware fitted and serviced annually.

[@David-bl1bt]

Sadly, the reality with ne, is rgat octopus have been a nightmare to deal with o er the proposed i stalkation of the cosy6. I have had my deposit placed since january, still waiting for it to be installed. Octopus keep moving g the goalposts and fail to listen to reason. Their heatpump team are incompetent and dont really know what they are doing from one day to the next. It is an infuriating experience for me.

[@pawellach590]

Just wonder, why the energy I produce is cheaper than yours?

[@anguscampbell1533]

Do you sell your heat pumps in Canada?

[@tlangdon12]

No, Octopus only sells heat pumps in the UK despite having commercial interests in Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, and the United States. They have licensed Kraken to Saint John Energy (SJE) for demand management, so if anyone is going to have access to Octopus' heat pump technology, I would expect SJE would have it first.

[@anguscampbell1533]

@@tlangdon12 Thats is to bad. Do you have plans to set up in Canada?

[@tlangdon12]

@@anguscampbell1533 I don't work for Octopus, so I can't say for sure, but I doubt it. Any expansion into the retail markets of North America is likely to be via acquisition due to the regulatory overheads. I imagine Octopus are sitting on a pile of cash (due to how energy billing in the UK works), so taking over a major player in the USA or Canada might be possible.

[@ryuuguu01]

@@tlangdon12 I know they have something in US I think Texas. The major players in Canada are Crown corporations. I am hoping one of them will get Kraken.

[@darthbugger541]

price is still goverend by GAS prices regardless of wether you have GAS or NOT.

[@thibaultmol]

No it doesn't have to be. I know what you're referring to but octopus energy has ways of going around that by using dynamic pricing and such.... It's still affected. But a heck of a lot less

[@swaddiswaddi]

Would like one but even as an Octopus customer I can’t get one in my area (PL15).

[@maxthemagition]

The trouble is most people do not believe a word of it. The proof is in the eating. but if the pudding is rotten, you find out when you eat it, then it's too late, you heve removed you old reliable heating system and spent a fortune fitting a completely new system to find it doesn't come near to heating your home compared to the old system that you have scrapped and to return to that old system will cost another fortune to instal. If it ain't broke why fix it?

[@BlackCountryLad]

100’s of Software engineers and still after over two years you cannot approve Givenergy EV Chargers for Intelligent Octopus Go. Why with all this technology is someone still sitting on his/her hands? You are an incredible consumer focus company but this is letting you down.

[@WilliamLaverick-wo1nb]

The only power that is renewable is nuclear power. It is a bare face lie that heat pumps are efficient. You will need more plumbing because you will need a hot water storage tank. And unlike a condensing boiler when that tank is emptied of hot water you will have to wait until it is hot again. Condensing boilers will give hot water for however long you want. It is a most instant hot water. Even if you have solar water heating you need a pump which will be running almost all day long.

[@GrahamRead101]

You’re getting confused between a condensing boiler (which is just a way of recovering heat from waste gases), that is used in a system with a hot water or no hot water tank; and a combi boiler that heats hot water directly for use straight to the taps.

[@WilliamLaverick-wo1nb]

@ I am not getting confused. I know what I have and I was a plumber gas fitter.

[@GrahamRead101]

@@WilliamLaverick-wo1nb ok, but you said “Condensing boilers will give hot-water for however long you want”. This isn’t the case, it depends if that condensing boiler is operating as a combi boiler or providing hot water to warm a hotwater tank.

[@WilliamLaverick-wo1nb]

@ precisely we have no hot water tank and the associated pipe work. My boiler saved a lot of copper.

[@sarkybugger5009]

"Bluetooth just works." Try sending a picture from an Android phone to an iPhone, and get back to me...

[@PhillipParr]

Well, if Apple do insist on limiting the abilities of their Bluetooth...

[@MrSmithToday]

So why the cozy 6 needs electricity in off the grid and not power itself if its 3/4 km out with 1kw in?

[@davidsinclair144]

1 kW Electricity in = 3 or 4 kW HEAT out

[@MrSmithToday]

@@davidsinclair144 Hi I think you misunderstand my comment. Kw is a measurement of energy. So as one kw form is equal to the other. The amounts dictate a positive gain. So why not use the gain to power the unit also? I hope that make it clearer.

[@robinbennett5994]

@@MrSmithToday because although heat and electricity are both types of energy, it's really hard to turn a small temperature difference into electricity. In thermodynamics, the problem is called entropy. We do have devices for turning heat into electricity, but they either need high pressure steam (typically at around 400C) or whatever temperature petrol burns at (1000C?). As the temperature drops, so does efficiency.

[@keithrushton9899]

Fantastic ways of smart control of energy, all completely negated if you live rurally and cant get a "smart" meter because the current network doesnt reach these areas (despite a large amount of public funding!)

[@alanmcmahon7154]

Totally agree, I joined Octopus to access the innovative, environmentally friendly tariffs but have suffered over a year of frustration and financial loss because of the inability to get a functioning smart meter. Absolute joke.

[@kimmeddies6689]

Amazing in this day and age that we have to use a mobile signal, why not use house Wi-Fi or LAN?

[@LB-W]

Heat pumps are shit.

[@ozzyg82]

The solution to high petrol prices CAN be cheaper petrol, it’s not JUST smart electricity. This guy isn’t a good speaker given he’s apparently bias in his knowledge. For example advancements in cleaner synthetic fuels is making huge strides in coming to market - and if successful - not having to dig your fuel out of the ground and refine it will mean not only is it much cheaper for the consumer to purchase, but will be just as green as electricity. I don’t mind people talking about their invention, but I do mind them brainwashing their audience.

[@PaulPhillipsUK]

That heat pump he makes is very ugly

[@Superman-nn4nw]

You planning to hump it like?

[@martinbrookes1372]

Do you want to make your home almost impossible to sell ? Easy , fit solar panels and a heat pump , that will fix it .

[@Thetyrerepairer]

All of these heat saving methods are a waste of time. You pay extra for the latest technology to cut your fuel consumption.Then the energy company’s up there prices to cover the loss of income due to the reduced amount of fuel used. It’s a never ending circle.

[@jamesgrover2005]

You should be doing it to leave an environment your children's children can survive in.. not because you want to profit. But still, it's saved me money and I make half my own energy including for travel. I'd call that a win win.

[@bjorn2625]

Yes when your children are explaining to your grandchildren why we can no longer grow food in this country and our summers hit 45 C regularly, at least you can tell them that you saved a few quid on your heating by not “jumping on the bandwagon”.

[@JamboLinnman]

companies* their*

[@langy1318]

Smart meters aren’t designed well enough and don’t work in many cases, they can cut off or limit your supply whenever they like and they could drain your car batteries if they needed to so you could be up shit creek in an emergency. They seem to have forgotten about the promised cheap electricity which will never ever be the case.

[@roberthirst5571]

Not interested in heat pumps

[@WilliamLaverick-wo1nb]

You will need to put your heat pump away from your house because of the noise they make.

[@GrahamRead101]

Not true. I’ve listened to the modern versions, they are very very quiet

[@WilliamLaverick-wo1nb]

@ We don’t even know our boiler is running it’s so quiet.

[@VoltDweller]

It looks awful