Off-Grid Living in a Self-Built Homestead

This off grid homestead, Lammas Village, is an idyllic alternative living Eco-Village in the hills of Wales. The UK, being a difficult place to start an off-grid homestead, has challenged the Wimbush family to their limits, but they were able to take on the government and change the laws to allow them to build an amazingly sustainable village in the countryside. While they were initially faced with disapproving locals, over the years the Lammas Eco-Village (Tir y Gafel) has created a community of its own rooted in environmentally friendly practice, permaculture and growth. Their 200 acre plot is now home to 13 separate homesteads.
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Off the Cuff: flutterbrothers_offthecuf
Chris: chrisparr21
Harris: harry_d_
Music by:
Robert Pirogovsky
Thumbnail Photo: The Sign Hunters
oneworldfamily.de/en/lammas-e...
Archival footage:
/ livinginthefuture

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

What questions do YOU have about this eco-village?

[@chrisparsonson420]

Two questions that never seem to be answered are :- One. what happens when you get sick?, and Two. what happens when you get old?

[@bobleponge1853]

are the winters worse then in the netherlands and can bring my dog and cat?

[@andyhumber9320]

Where do I sign up??

[@Neilhuny]

@@chrisparsonson420 I know the answer to the first question - the NHS cares for you! Everyone pays for the NHS, even if they have the most extreme minimum of income since it is paid for out of taxes - if you eat, wear clothes and have transport, you pay tax. When you get old may be an issue, particularly if you don't have children that have taken over the lifestyle, and you are also unable to grow veg. That's an issue for both the Lammas community and the wider Pembrokeshire/Welsh/British community to resolve ... Everyone is cared for to a reasonable minimum standard ... kinda. In any developed country - and USA seems to be the most backward in this regard - everyone seems to get emergency treatment? But in America, if you have an on-going debilitating illness that will reduce the length of your life and incapacitate you, I have no idea how you cope. That isn't an issue in most of the developed world so far as I'm aware.

[@gbalcombe]

How do I become a community member?

[@itsxstarz9056]

The way he was looking at his wife as she described them getting together that was the look of a man who loves and cherishes every memory with her

[@George_K1]

This life style is the solution to many of today's urban modern life problems... This kind of living should be encouraged and supported by people and governments.

[@thegamingassassin454]

Another humble little community, wish we had more of that here in America. Its needed. Love the video guys!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Great to see the comment 🤘 It would be cool to see more of this wouldn't it. Seems like there are some things popping up here and there. We hope to explore more in the US soon!

[@IslandBlaze8]

There are many more than one thinks, they just don't show the masses its possible.

[@tturner12341]

Even though I live in the city. I also grow my own herbs and vegetables in the summer. I try to support all the local farmers around southeastern Michigan. I would love to try this living out for a year. Living in the city gets tiring. 😊😊

[@radixmaharaj5912]

The peace and quiet, as well as living of the land, is why I would live there.

[@Neilhuny]

I loved that! A very fair and reasonable guide to some of the issues facing living off-grid re legality, costs, effort required, community involvement etc. Slight bias - I've been to Lammas many times and have met Tao and Hoppi a number of times, and many of the other residents, and I think they are all great. They are great ambassadors for this way of life. I fervently hope many of us move toward a way of living similar to their lifestyle. We will still need accountants, computer geeks and rocket scientists, or builders, plumbers and teachers - whatever - but we should live more lightly on the land, as Tao & Hoppi would express it. Don't take more than you put back.

[@deborahdanhauer8525]

I love this little community. I grew up in the country and we grew all of our vegetables, some fruits and all our beef and pork. We lived in a completely modern house that was on the grid. I wish I could grow everything like my family did, have a modern home that was off grid. Solar or wind power would be ideal. You don’t have to leave the city to do some version of this. A large yard, properly planned would suffice. You would need to have a fish pond and goats instead of pigs and cattle, but it could be done.🐝❤️🤗

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Amazing! Do you still incorporate some of these practices in your current situation? Was this in Wales where you grew up?

[@deborahdanhauer8525]

@@OfftheCuff_Series No, I grew up in Kentucky USA. All of my adult life, even while living in the city, I grew a big garden in my yard until I became disabled. I also had a freezer full of deer meat most of the time. I try to grow a few things in containers now. I still live in the city and have recently moved to a new home. I am planting fruit trees also. I do what little I can now. But I always wished I could have become really sustainable.🐝🤗❤️

[@Tsenngu]

It is kinda weird. We used to have a cabin up in the mountains. Quite a big place with 4 bedrooms big livingroom/kitchen, bathroom ++. The whole cabin was off grid both with electricity and water. Indoor compost toilet room , gas stove , wood burning fireplaces and ovens and old school solar panels to have a few lights and power the radio. We all so much looked forward to going up there to get away from all the big city noise and just relax. We had some great times at that cabin even with 8-9 people it was no problem at all being there for a long week or more. I live in daily life completely modern with all you could want but just having that off grid cabin was so relaxing and chill compared to vacations at hotels or big modern places. I do not mind having to chop wood, shuffle snow and working for the enjoyment. One day hopefully i can be able to live a more nature close life and be much more self sustainable because we need to go that route to even survive the next 100 years i think.

[@MrDrainy]

Everyone seems so wholesome and pleasant to be around out there. Lovely video guys!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

They really were! Glad you enjoyed this one 🤘

[@travelingtophe]

I just love your method of journalism. Well done, dudes.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Thanks!! Great to see a comment from you :)

[@ronachadwick7908]

I love being close to nature. Growing my own food give me pleasure.

[@jyoon0128]

What this guy says makes so much sense. Now with remote working, this type of living such be more acceptable and available. Good work. Keep going and growing! 👍☺️

[@dianethompson2458]

This is a lovely lifestyle and Lammas looks like a great place to live. I live in Canada. I tried to get the mayor of our city to help me create a tiny house community. I found a builder willing to build basic tiny homes for around 80 thousand dollars each. the city was asked to rent us serviced lots. this would have made home ownership possible for young people and seniors like myself. He told me no way. There are communities like this in the province where I live. There are two communities one to house the homeless and one to accommodate people able to buy a home and rent the land it is on. My city is very affluent. I rent a basement apartment near downtown. It is the cheapest apartment in the city and costs me 60 per cent of my income. The mayor and the city council do not want to help the poor in any way. The business owners cant get workers because a one bedroom apartment is 1800 to 2000 dollars a month with a vacancy rate of about one percent. I cant understand why this is happening. all around the world. Decent shelter food medicine clothes education and jobs are basic human rights.

[@grandmasstories3418]

"Someone(s)" are interested in creating total chaos in society, culture and in the cities, have been at it for decades, that is becoming painfully obvious to thousands, if not millions, of people who are the victims or at least have their eyes open to things.... I personally believe that God Himself will have to (and WILL!) intervene, sooner or later, because this is not the direction He planned His beautiful creation (especially people) to go at all....

[@grandmasstories3418]

He is soo right, about decentralizing, living in small communities and getting your sustenance from nature around you!

[@marysevaillancourt-prescot3097]

So excited to see this type of nieghborhood exists for kids to see thier real potential....Life

[@steveford2626]

Hi There, great video, i am originally from Wales, i have travelled the world with work, now building an eco resort in the Philippines. We are building an eco resort from the land from Bamboo and wood, aim to be 95% land sourced. We will have well water, Hydro electricity from water, all our utensils will be made from bamboo, NO plastic whatsoever allowed. Sink also made from a tree trunk, the bath bamboo. i will not have tv in the rooms, giant wooden games like chess etc. I really feel this lifestyle is the way forward, not for everyone, however we plan to have a moat to grow our own fish etc. Totally off grid, i have lived in America also.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Glad you found our channel :) Sounds like you are taking on an amazing project! Where can we learn more about your endeavors?

[@steveford2626]

@@OfftheCuff_Series Do you have a contact email address? I can forward you our plans, our house build, plans etc. Also I can guide you to my builders KZbin channel. I don't seek to promote his channel on here. We seek Hydrogen for electricity via our water source.

[@vancamerawoman7399]

Your documentaries are excellent 😊 I live off grid a in a self reliant way so I’m really happy to have found your channel.

[@gracjankoprowski8252]

Just yesterday I came across your work and I wanted to share how much I appreciate it. It brings me such joy and inspiration. Thanks! :)

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

So glad you enjoy it :) Would you live in a place like this?

[@delnacarruthers9335]

This lifestyle speaks to my soul! Good for you! Blessings!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Same to you! What part about off-grid homesteading are you most drawn to??

[@delnacarruthers9335]

@@OfftheCuff_Series growing food and sustaining a community with different skill sets. Teaching, medicinal nutritionist, Christian spiritual. Being busy from sun up til sundown! 😊Good question.

[@darrelldourte9455]

@@OfftheCuff_Series Hope you're still in England. Would love to learn more of this kind of sustainability.

[@debclay2945]

This is the future 🙌

[@garethpeters2752]

I want to live here - I have recently open my own business after years of working my arse off 60/70/80 hr weeks - I’ve had enough and just want peace with my dogs without all the stress and pressure of keeping up with payments. What a lifestyle

[@cyndeeh]

Oh lord..I WOULD LOVE TO GO SPEND my older yrs.there!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Woo! Team Lammas Village!

[@cyndeeh]

@@OfftheCuff_Series are they accepting new members?

[@katbot2190]

Glad I stumbled across you. I enjoy learning about different areas.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Welcome aboard :) We're working on some projects right now that I'm sure you'll enjoy!

[@BobbyTucker]

Anyone with a desire to get back to the basics of life, I think this would be one great way to do it. Living off the grid, using solar electricity would have it's drawbacks but with a few adjustments it could be achieved. One wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. I would want to live in a warmer climate than what I am now living.

[@danieldelestry7302]

Top-notch content, as always! Beautiful trip and an excellent documentary!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Thanks! Would definitely recommend sound therapy at some point. You'd love it!

[@hayleyrichards659]

This place has been calling me for so long now cant wait to pop in and meet you all x

[@ceciliavillalobos5044]

Im so sad i am getting older and im not learning all this now not sooner i think this should become a learning experance that schools and colleges need to advance to learning how to survive and be self sufficient. Im loving that its a new trend taking place hope they reach out in the world to have classes educating next generation. They need to take a lesson from styles that have been replaced over and over without changing building techniques that will be more substainable will be able to face natural disastrous events underground building to solar living its all in the name of saving our planet, and lives.

[@raydenkundera857]

Hi dear friend😊 it is nice to see people who lives in harmony with nature and themselves 😊 great job and hard work. 😊👍🙏

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

So glad you enjoyed the video :) They really do have it figured out here don't they

[@raydenkundera857]

@@OfftheCuff_Series yes indeed 😊

[@janiedillingham3190]

I wish I lived in Wales, so I could become a member of this eco-village.

[@chiefmonrovia6691]

All about sustainability and self reliance. If you know how to keep and make your own way, you're truly free

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Well said!

[@brianmoroney3448]

Good more people need to do what your doing

[@fynn7972]

Thank you so much for opening my eyes. I was stuck in a way of life that is feeling so wrong in so many aspects and I just never thought of this way of living is even possible and existed! It seems so stupid now that I'm saying this, but you really blew my mind with your different documentaries and I think I just found something to look after even in this World I thought was doomed. Thank you so much, I will see where this new knowledge will bring me, but just knowing it exists is mindblowing.

[@mickeyakers91]

Thank you for suggested this. These make me so optimistic for my future in sustainable living

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

You can do it! What are you building?

[@mickeyakers91]

@@OfftheCuff_Series not anything at the moment. I live in a apartment right now until my husband is finished with school. But our dream is to live more off the grid in a community like this

[@zephyrs4850]

You asked why I watch the content. I'm just wondering what people will do in the future and how it would work. I also enjoy the mindfulness you guys carry with you when interviewing people.

[@newskills3265]

There amazing people at lammas I do miss being there

[@aidancoogan9518]

This channel is amazing

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Glad you enjoy our videos, Aidan! Where do you think we should explore next??

[@danabelknap7860]

I wish I was young again to do this.

[@FarNorthLiving]

Really enjoyed this video. My wife and I live on 35 acres in the Far North of New Zealand and the near indestructible Yacon is a staple crop. I don't see it grown that often!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Very cool!

[@philipdirnberger]

Love the ducks!

[@thetrainhopper8992]

The main thing isn't for everyone to move off grid, but for us all to take lessons from those that do. I could do something like an Earthship in town, but the greenhouse would have to replace the roof and I would need some more scientific ways to treat the graywater to use it in a aquaponic garden. I would still be using local utilities but using less of everything.

[@reneebergstrom6451]

Great interviews and documentary of an inspiring community.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Glad you enjoyed it! Maybe you should acquire some goats to compliment your massive garden :)

[@richardgarrett5322]

Really fun to watch.

[@adorkableblonde7966]

I've always wanted what I loving deemed as a wolf pack when I was knee high my Da told me. A group of friends or family whom all contribute and help to a self reliable community setting. (Medic, butcher, bee keep, dairy person...) everyone assists but also has a 'specialty'.. my brother is the builder, I'm the herb witch (holistic medicines but I was also a nurse lol), my Da the Fisher. All of us garden, can hunt, feed the animals and such of the daily. Hopefully this answers why the lifestyle appeals to me. We've been taking steps here as well. Colorado has a ridiculous amount of restrictions to work around tho 😒 🙄. Lamas is beautiful 😍

[@kimchi_b]

Fantastic stuff, thank you for the recommendation guys, subbed!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Welcome aboard! Be sure to check out our other videos like this :)

[@ceciwolfcat7]

Brilliant, it's wonderful!🍀

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Glad you enjoyed it :) what is your favorite part of this eco-village?

[@ceciwolfcat7]

@@OfftheCuff_SeriesThe people are amazing, and being surrounded by nature while caring for it. I love their dedication.

[@mommieminnesota3108]

I wish we could do this in Minnesota,I would be the first to sign up for sure

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Would be totally cool! Maybe there is a secret one up in the Boundary Waters ?

[@williamjones8086]

Gorgeous views!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

It really is!

[@doglegjake6788]

Excellent video

[@user-rp6nf9sz6t]

I have acquired land, but can't farm for sh*t, I had 4 fruit trees, but now only a dwarf peach. So ready to get out of town and start on my Earthship home near the NV/UT border. Since I lack the skills like these folks, I will need to hire people to build me an ES, I love the whole thing, water catchment, waste recycle, growing my own food. I need a simpler life.

[@The-three-eyed-Prophet]

#Respect

[@sleepylilturtle760]

this has got to be **the** dream, oh my god! I hope one day I can afford land to do the same thing with my friends

[@joaniedirnberger8026]

Very Interesting! Congrats for a job well done guys!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@florianfeuillet.]

Being close to nature, doing sth. that is good for the planet... ❤

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

🤘

[@josephpotter2844]

This man is medacine for the world, blessings,I long to be near this type of real living .

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Beautifully said, Joseph! Have you ever visited an eco-village like this?

[@josephpotter2844]

@@OfftheCuff_Series no I have never seen one, accept on you tube,

[@merfymac]

Great video. It'd be cool to see a few episodes on urban community, including off grid in the center of cities. Trying to get to that best of both worlds

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

That's a great idea! we've looked at doing something at the Los Angeles Eco-Village. Have you heard of it?

[@intuitivetyson]

found your channel from your Earthship video, you guys are awesome! You do such a good job of getting multiple perspectives and I think get a really fair picture of the situations you're going into. Well done, well done. I'd be interested in what communities you think would be the easiest to integrate into coming from the living in the city.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Thanks for the kind words:) that is a fantastic idea - we’ll look at how we can integrate that into a video! Are there any other communities you think we should explore?

[@intuitivetyson]

@@OfftheCuff_Series tiny Texas homes!

[@intuitivetyson]

Brad "Darby" kittle, Kristen's video on him was really well done, but I know they've grown the community a lot since then

[@goatbackr380]

why does this video not have more views

[@transcend3145]

My vision!

[@Kirstineg.]

❤❤❤ it look great

[@Kirstineg.]

❤❤❤ they old fashionable

[@cyndeeh]

Wish I could go live there !

[@lorettatayor5840]

"Have you ever had your hand on a teat before?" "Not one this big." Ha! look it up "Witness" movie. 😆

[@ronachadwick7908]

The most important aspect of sustainability it to remove the profit aspect. You orig buy for $35k you sell for $35k.

[@annelang514]

Really interested in this way of life. Wish there was something similar in Scotland.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Oh but there is! Have you seen our video about Findhorn Eco-Village yet?? We released it earlier this week :)

[@annelang514]

@@OfftheCuff_Series Do families live there?

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

@@annelang514 Yep! There are actually quite a few. The village houses around 600 residents - so quite a few families :)

[@chrisparr21]

Would 100% move there to get serenaded by Sue every morning

[@tiphaniedirnberger3566]

That would be an amazing way to start each day!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

All about the horn!

[@ht9739]

I love the idea of this. The only thing I would change is weedeating and mowing on the property lol. Everything else is genius.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Please elaborate on the weed eating bit 🤷‍♂️ haha

[@ht9739]

@@OfftheCuff_Series I’m saying I would weedeat or mow around everything. It’s obvious they don’t do any landscaping so that natural species can thrive but in my opinion it just looks tacky. I would rather have a clean cut yard and still have everything else sustainable.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

@@ht9739 Ahh, I see! I grew up with the term "Weed Whacker" 😂 I suppose every homestead can have their own deal. Maybe one day you'll have one with some great landscaping :)

[@lorettatayor5840]

ok, i saw them deliver wood for the winter.

[@amymason156]

I'd like to live in a place like this just to be away from streets, lights, and road vehicles. The problem, here, is that not only is living in the city unaffordable, living anywhere else is unaffordable, too.

[@mattpipes5106]

This is maybe my favorite eco village video I’ve seen, there seems to be a more mellow vibe and they approach it with great solutions… I don’t know about the sustainability of wood fired heat… but I guess it was good enough for our ancestors. I wish permitting and legal hurdles weren’t so ubiquitous in making these communities easier to start, great video!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Wow, thank you! We're glad you enjoyed everything :) Have you looked into many eco-villages in the UK?

[@mattpipes5106]

@@OfftheCuff_Series not in the UK, but I’ve checked out videos of the ones in New Mexico, Australia and Arizona… This one just seemed more accessible

[@dubfez_9256]

It’s a beautiful thing to see how people can make a real go at living closer to nature but with a few mod-cons as well. They mentioned they have a freezer full of meat, do they raise their own animals for that? Or do they lick it up from the butcher or supermarket?

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

They have a pretty well developed farm :)

[@mariadelcarmendelamorena5146]

I am fascinated by this. Are they really unique? I will definitely research this community and more like them. Can you provide contact information for this community? I am considering moving to EU to build an affordable version of a sustainable off-grid home... This community feels like a perfect fit for my goals. Thank you for sharing their story!

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

That is very exciting! I'm happy that you were able to find some inspiration from this video :) If you're looking to learn more about this type of lifestyle you should check out a video we put out this morning about the Findhorn Eco-Village in Northern Scotland. As for Lammas Village - you can learn more information about it here: lammas.org.uk/en/welcome-to-lammas/

[@nobody1807]

One day, when I have the knowledge and money for it, I'll build my own off-grid home away from the exhausting bustle of the city... one day

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Amazing! Are there elements from this homestead that you’d like to utilize?

[@scampishfoxx3138]

I love it so much, but I’ll live close or closer to the earth when I’m dead. But I also agree with severing from the modern day BULLOCKS

[@tiphaniedirnberger3566]

I want a Polly!

[@FrejthKing]

Hes got the power of The Ancestors and WIFI on his side.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

He’s got it all 🤯

[@kenperrin963]

What kind of south american root vegetable are they growing hoping to try grow it in canada

[@juggybabuvloglife5133]

No need 4 air polluting vehicles..

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Brilliant point!

[@juggybabuvloglife5133]

@@OfftheCuff_Series Blessingz..

[@leslieegling6511]

I just hate American long-copy advertising. It is one boring rote, Besides this was deceptive as the promised three free exercises were 'conveniently' never revealed.

[@lorettatayor5840]

do they use propane to cook?? if they use wood, they will soon run out of that, so how to sustain themselves to keep warm & cook??

[@robgood719]

It’s a way many will return

[@kimlarso]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Isomoar]

The more people shift to this way of living, the more resistant corporate governments will become. I feel like there's going to be a big fight on our hands.

[@jess_o_lantern]

Did this visit finally turn these city boys into country boys?!

[@Scorpio62626]

I want this but don't have money,for years i survive instead of living my life. Where can i find a nice community like this in Europe?Or is it possible as a European to come to the USA? I am a herbalist , maybe you guys need a one?

[@Catthepunk]

Isn't wood heat poluting to the environment?

[@Ston3dNinja13]

To be able to live off grid with like-minded people while you still have todays modern convenances is the dream. A flushing toilet in my house is apart of that dream, fyi.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

Well said! Yes, that may be a luxury many would want to include. Where would you want to have your homestead?

[@Ston3dNinja13]

@@OfftheCuff_Series If i had the choice it would be a tropical climate. Not only do I hate the cold but I like a lot of the foods that grow there.

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

@@Ston3dNinja13 Fair points! Have you seen our video about the Earthship community in the USA?

[@Ston3dNinja13]

@@OfftheCuff_Series I have. I'm in love with the idea of Earthships. I would just need to make sure I got internet that I can game on and I would be in high heaven! Is that your guy's go to for dream living, an Earthship?

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

@@Ston3dNinja13 amazing! It’s pretty interesting - a lot of the people we met with in the Taos community had internet and many modern appliances. Kind of icing on the cake which they’re able to power from sustainable sources like solar and wind. But yeah, I’d say the Earthship route would be amazing! We’ve been toying around with the idea. We’re in an interesting space as Chris and I both live in cities (I’m in Los Angeles and Chris is in Minneapolis). With that being said, our dreams have been more inline with a smaller Earthship that is used as an office space or a mother-in-law type suite

[@elambhashyllalonneth9243]

Where is this place in which country?

[@ShemBoothSpain]

PIONEERS

[@OfftheCuff_Series]

100%! They really did take hold of the idea and run with it here

[@iwrotethis4712]

Only the blood is made of 70% water though

[@terrycoontz]

I wonder if the Amish watch us on their stone tablets living in big cities

[@user-hz8uc9iu8c]

that's about the average, now, 350k-

[@HowDidIGet3700Subs]

6:40 they are truly vile. It almost puts me off

[@johnarizona3820]

^5

[@deepprey2776]

Free people cannot be controlled…..

[@jeweloftheisle498]

I am anti government ,but the way these people are living is low impact on this earth. In the future there may not be a choice to have supermarket vegetables and this way of life may be for many more human beings.

[@marjhuncantago9476]

Off grid Communities need Government Approval?. WHAT?!

[@rickdixon9933]

99.9% of the humans in the world, would find these people impossible to be around...especially Hoppy and her Shamenesque behavior.

[@grandmasstories3418]

"Cities are dirty, open sores in the body of politics" (more and more so) - Arnold Toynbee

[@oldmanonamission8055]

Been growing grain and milking goats for some 10 thousand years 🤣 People have only lived on Earth for around 6 thousand years. Adam (the first man) to Jesus is around 4,000 year and from Jesus to now around 2,000 years.

[@angeliskarlos6395]

Please don't keep the goat with its head confined. It is already a burden to animals that we are exploiting them in so many ways, at least we could treat them a bit nicer without any cost. Goats are particularly lively animals as well, which makes this treatment even worse. If you need to confine her, you could tie her with a long rope, which is still not a very nice thing to do, but much better that what you are doing. We should at least try to limit our additional negative impact for what we so lightheartedly take. If there is some important reason why the goat needs to be treated like that to be milked, I would be interested to know it.