New Gobel Power Battery DIY Kit V2 - Better quality, further improvements, cable size correct?

[@upnorthandpersonal]

This is one of the reasons I tend to recommend adding a fast fuse (Class T, BS-88 or NH type) to every battery. Also, if you really want to pull 200A, get two batteries. 200A represents a draw of 10kW and is also more than 0.5C on a typical 280Ah or 304Ah cell - better to cut that in half by adding a battery or two extra in parallel. Besides, if those cables are undersized (there are arguments against that but I won't go into that), than so are the bus bars interconnecting the cells (at terminal/stud contact at least).

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Correct, I always stress about proper externa; fusing or safety devices. Yes, the busbars with 20mm x 2mm are underrated too for 250A. We have tested this, right?!

Using 1/3C rate or less in and out of a LiFePo4 battery bank creates less internal cell heating and as we all should know heat means increased ageing and deterioration over time.. So adding more batteries increases overall life..

[@JdZ-2023]

Yeah, that the breaker to heavy is is no problem for me. I wouldn't trust it as a safety device anyway and use it as a manual main switch only. I definitely ad a passive fuse for safety, based upon the smallest wire. The only task of any fuse is always securing the wires.

[@schunkelndedschunke6914]

I am using a 12kW 3-phase Deye inverter and my solar system has a max load of 10kW. For that and relaxed battery current I have installed 3 boxes of the 14,3kWh GobelPower batteries. They are lying on a heavy duty rack horizontal. I am very happy with that configuration. The 3 GobelPower batteries are connected to a Victron Lynx PowerIn and the fuses are ADLER fuses with 20kA. (there is sand inside)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@schunkelndedschunke6914 nice setup. That supplies power to your whole house obviously. So, a bit under 100A per battery under full load, which you probably never use...

[@edwardvanhazendonk]

Wow, great to see your YT achievement in the shiny mirroring award. Well earned with all your super videos! Thanks for all your hard work in delivering us this cool content!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot, Edward!

[@TheAbyrvalg666]

I bought BatteryTech 280 ah batteries from Gobel a year ago for my sailbot and now I have 1440 ah of power at the boat and couldn't be happier. Gobel is a solid supplier!

[@ricardomarcelino8388]

What voltage are you working with? 12v?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Oh wow, that is a solid setup!

[@TheAbyrvalg666]

@@ricardomarcelino8388 Yep that's 12v. Just drop in replaced old Sonnenchein battery banks. I just made 5 assemblies each with it's own BMS (200A JK BMS) and paralleled them. This is better for such application in terms of safety and reliability than using a centralized BMS. In addition I replaced old solar chargers with Victrons, and it works flawlessly now.

[@580guru]

Congratulations on your YT award Andy. You deserve it...and more!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you.

[@Sebastian-kc7id]

Gobel has a really good video on KZbin about the assembly. It's roughly 2-3 days old. I have three of these cases here now, and I really like them. Everything that is not in the manual is explained in the video even some torc specs. I gues the breaker is more like a one off switch. Thanks for all your videos.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I had a look on their website, nothing there unfortunately. If this breaker is a battery switch, how would you parallel these boxes? You would need to install a safety device between each battery.

[@belljoxer]

Andy, congratulations on the award and 100K subscribers. You are missing something here and it's not merely the cross sectional area of the wire but also the nature of the insulation and whether they are run in free air, in conduit, with other cables, etc. In general 200C rated insulated wire can safely carry 1.5 to 2 times the amperage of 100C rated PVC insulation. For the circuit breaker you should always derate the capacity of the circuit to 80%. So for a 250A circuit you should not draw more than 200A and that's a perfect match for a 200A BMS. If you had a 100A BMS then a 125A breaker would be appropriate.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. That is exactly what I explained, showed and linked here.

[@DincaSilviu61]

Hello from Romania. I have been using mb31 from eve for 4 months. They have at least 330Ah capacity, I charge them at 3.45v full. For now, I'm satisfied with the batteries, I'm waiting for the passage of time to see how they behave!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you for sharing. That is great!

[@wayne8113]

Thanks Andy, It makes it a lot easier than building your own shelf as we did (but takes a lot of the fun out of it if you have the skills) 😄😁👍

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, correct. These DIY boxes are everywhere now!

[@joseo.cordero7286]

I have 3 EEL Vertical Battery Boxes with the JK BMS and I really like it. The only thing that I would improve is using a "beefier" circuit breaker. But so far it is working OK and looks great.

[@ocular57]

EELhave still got the flexible copper bars to the BMS and circuit breaker which carry more current. Many of the DIY Box manufacturers have cut costs by going to wire connectors.

[@joseo.cordero7286]

@ocular57 Yes, that's correct. Flexible copper bars for all internal connections, including battery to battery, battery to BMS, BMS to outside post, battery to breaker, and breaker to outside post. I was impressed with the build.

[@markmcm]

Congratulations Andy. Well done! 🇨🇦 🍁

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you!

[@marcschneider7338]

Andy: I recently got the Gobel and the Yxijang DIY Box. According to your video it seems I got Gobel V2 and Yxijang V1 box. I can admit, the Gobel manual is really bad. It took me almost three times as long to build the Gobel box. I built the Yxijang box first, and it was really easy. After the two builds I would recomend the Yxijang box. They use this flexible copper bars for the main connection. This is much easier! The pcb for balancing wiring is much more convinient and time saving. I agree with you about the main switch. It could be much smaller. For the same price, you get more and better quality with yxijang. Btw: I bought both boxes by myself.

[@m_cabral]

My DIY case came with two pairs of dual 8 AWG 200C cables for each line. When you work through the calculators for ampacity of combined conductors you lose some ampacity vs a single longer conductor but various rules for the US and Europe basically point to 160A as being the maximum reasonable ampacity once you derate for running at 105C max temperature in a steel chassis that can become fairly hot itself (40C). As an analog, this is the condition of a DC fast charger and other common equipment so the derating guidelines should be conservative and reliable (aka, you should believe your electrical code). If you decided to rely on the 200C insulation it’s in theory 360A capable, but I’m not going to be the person who finds out! Running the equivalent of an oven heating coil next to LiFePO4 cells seems silly. In my case I’m going to rewire with triple 6AWG when I make some changes to my setup to ensure I keep the wires cool. It didn’t come with any fuses or breakers so I added a 200A ANL fuse (which is not very quick to react) in line inside the case as a last resort to protect the wiring and prevent a fire. In a bad case I’d rather the BMS OCP apply in a safe way but in an even worse worst case I want to avoid a fire from burning the wires and terminals inside. I’m going to use a fast acting fuse externally at below 200A and breakers for the intended load. Each layer of protection protects and isolates which is why our homes are wired and protected in kind. Main breakers you should never trip, branch breakers you may trip, and device fuses/thermal breakers you will trip a few times per year. I’d rather a 20A branch fuse go than have the battery fuse go. As for who wants 11kW from their battery, it’s likely the Americas and SE Asia where Air Conditioning requirements are high due to humidity. There’s also battery storage for car charging where someone may want to charge very quickly. I’m with you though Andy, just run multiple batteries and share the load. Running three 100aH batteries with 200A capable wiring is better than running one 300aH battery with 200A wiring at 200A.

[@jeff35372]

Andy the information you provide through the years is the most complete and comprehensive. If you have time can you please give us your thoughts on "Parallel- Earth arc" inside the solar panel. and Arcing across the cells. Thank you very much.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks for your feedback. I'll put your suggestion on my list, but don't expect this to come soon😊

[@jeff35372]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks.

[@jeremyallard7015]

Andy great video thanks for your humour interjections, steely A good fuse will alleviate some Risk, that breaker is mammoth.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Breaker is far too big for such a setup. Let's see if a manufacturer is brave enough to go with a smaller one in the future.

[@holdenman8850]

Congrats on receiving your silver play button Andy.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you for your support

[@holdenman8850]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia You're very welcome. P.s the EFH got a few friends called Peter the other day :)

[@philipbarth5937]

Thank you for your quick response. I would have never purchased the kits, if I hadn’t watched your channel. 4 kits for off grid BARN

[@Walterz930]

It’s always nice to see what things are out there hopefully one day when I am able to work again I can possibly look into these or powerbanks

[@jalpa9642]

Merry Christmas Andie & Wife/Family....Thank you for sharing Gobel Power DIY Kit...!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. Merry Christmas🎄

[@marcoarpago]

Congrats for the silver plate !!!!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you.

[@johnmonroe3147]

Thanks Andy. I have a Pace version of this box sitting in the shed waiting to be built. This is very helpful.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Perfect. Maybe add an active balancer and it will be great.

[@NaamNatuurlijkniet]

Hi Andy, great vid. Looks like a great box also. About the cables and circuitbreaker. My guess is, that a lower circuitbreaker has a higher resistance (like a smaller fuse has) meaning more loss into heat. Heat that has to to somewhere at some point and often goes into the attached cable. Shorter cables have a lower resistance and therefore generate leas “watts” of heat. This is important since and space had a heat loss factor in which it will dissipate the heat to the outside. In this case it would be the case itsself. So generating less heat would always be better. Cable also conducts heat and a cooler cable can handle more load. As long as the cable can loose the heat it generates it Will not heat up. Temperatures will rise, the capacity will go down due to higher resistance which generates more heat and so on untill the cable melts like a fuse. My guess is this will hvr to be over 250A for some time. That being said, lets say you have a 3 phase setup on a 3x 25A grid connection and 3 multiplus 5000 units (4000Wx3) one would easily draw 200A out of a single battery using for example an induction stove for Christmas. These are often very short periodes of time. Also Victron needs some time ajusting the load to and from the grid when at somepoint one of lets say 2 batteries shutsdown at which time current may rise for a short time. A 200A bms has mosfets that can switch 200A, but when cooled correctly can handle more if they don’t have to switch. Then there are startup currents for electric motor equipment for example. Victron can handle the Rush-in current fine and the circuitbreaker won’t switch off where a 125A version would trip. For these short bursts of power the used cables are sufficient, although I would favour the flat ribon cables like Seplos supplies. A nice test would be to actually test what happens with the cable during overload. The manual needs to be updated to fix the mistakes. I would never design a case with the BMS on the compressionplate though. First of all more heat from the BMS would go into the batteries and second, depending on the batteries used, not all compressionplates may be flat or stay flat in the future. In that case all the forced will be put on the bms, bending it, creating a defect or even a fire. So I think this seperate plate is actually better for cooling and longeverty.

[@NaughtyGoatFarm]

Wow, congrats on the play button! Amazing.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you very much. Merry Christmas, say hello to everyone!

[@NaughtyGoatFarm]

​@OffGridGarageAustralia you too my friend.

[@rcguymike]

As an electrical engineer i appreciate the work and design time of companies like EG4 that make a nice server rack battery like the LL-S v2 and better😁. I could build a DIY but I value my time more I think😅😂. If I wanted a large non-moving pack I think I'd do like you did for your battery shelf and go full custom 😁

[@Knightliner69]

Gobel actually posted a whole lot of short videos in the last couple of days about there products on their KZbin channel. There were some videos about the assembly of those boxes as well. Still happy about my old GP-SR-150 box and the batteries I got from them. They were a reliable supplier and it seems they are working to improve quality and developing of their products. If I need more batteries they would be my first choice for now.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, because I urged them to upgrade the manual and they had the ideas with the videos. Yeah, all in all Gobel is great with high quality and consistency.

[@romocolan]

Can't find this video... Where?

[@AS-Bikes]

Hallo Andy, frohe Weihnachtstage und vielen Dank für deine Videos. Gruß Axel aus Spanien

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you, Happy New Year to Spain.

[@sammaimas155]

Andy, This video is so opportune for me. I just received my MB31 batteries and Battery box kit. So good .Thanks muchly...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. Enjoy your build!

[@dama054]

Have a great Christmas Andy

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you, you too!

[@RFDarter]

15:24 If that is true then how does any ring lug work at all? Or how dos the contact area of the busbar to the cell work out? The cross section there is far less than 50mm²

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, we have tested this before with a lot of different battery terminals and bus bars. Here, it is the force you push down on a tiny area which makes it work. Totally different to what we are talking here: ampacity.

[@RFDarter]

@OffGridGarageAustralia why would it be different? The current would still have to flow thrue a conductor with a fixed area..

[@dawidrosinski5107]

I think second wall is good idea if the cell actually gonna move. All those boxes gives me feeling that don't gonna compress the cells without bending or bending while usage. In this way if the plate bends the BMS PCB is save no tension added. But those braker are really overkill...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, that is correct and a good point. We have to check this again in a few years when the cells have been cycled and see if they build up any pressure due to swelling.

[@fal6097]

Thumbs up for your all cardboard packaging request; instead of not so renewable oil based plastic foam. Carton recycling is usually done more local.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I'll keep pushing for that until we change the industry!

[@GapRecordingsNamibia]

Andy FYI, when using stainless steel screws you can use some bluetac or prestik to get the screws in and out of deep holes.... Been using this method for a few years, was taught this by an elderly gentleman named Hanz Schweiz, who was an electrical engineer......

[@stocksons]

The wires in this box are probably safe for fault conditions as the current needed to melt them is very high (nearly 1000A for 4 gauge wire) and the circuit breaker would trip long before this happened and Gobel has added the fibreglass sheathes to contain any insulation melting during the brief heating during a fault. I agree a smaller breaker would be sensible for normal use of the battery.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Good point, thank you.

[@m_cabral]

The 1000A he calculated could be a motor/compressor Locked Rotor Amp rating. It’s exceptionally brief. If you look at an air conditioning unit you’ll see it may use 25A at Running, 65A when it starts, and list a 40A breaker. Everything works out ok since the overcurrent is so brief but the wiring needs to be larger than the 25A rating would indicate to give some startup margin. Aren’t electrons fun!

[@CantFindInYoutube]

Agree 100% with you, breakers and fuses have the function of protect the installation, that 250A will destroy it, in my case the max I use are 135A fuses. Like they separate the BMS and compression plate, had to disassemble one EEL with MB31 to move it to my attic, after 1 hour when I try assemble it the cells grow about 2cm total and need a lot of force to be able to put it back, the battery had 2 months, after a couple of years if they deform the compression plate, it can bend the BMS.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, that's a good point!

[@koestich]

Are you sure that the switch is a circuit breaker (so has potential to protect a cable) OR is it just a switch disconnector? In German it would be a Leitungssschutzschalter (Circuit breaker) or a Lasttrennschalter (switch disconnector).

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@koestich It's not a switch, it's a circuit breaker.

[@jamess4972]

@@koestich I love German. 22 letters for one word, so good!

[@andrewflies9119]

Thanks Andy. Your timing is exceptional. My first DYI is on it's way and didn't realize it was V2 until your video. You have saved me trying to make sense of the install manual. Great video as always and congrats on 100k subs.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot and have fun with your project!

[@caesarvalenti2763]

I built a V1 just after Andy's original video but did not have any of the issues he had...so he probably got a prototype. My second unit is still in Customs but should arrive next week. I knew I was getting V2, but I did not know what that meant...now I know. Thanks Andy.

[@caesarvalenti2763]

I got my V2 the day after Christmas and just opened it. Everything was in good shape except for the plastic box with all the screws...it was shattered just as Andy's was. I sense a trend here and reported it back to Gobel (Ellie.) The 16 cells I got look perfect except for a few fingerprints.

[@clarencewiles963]

Congratulations on your achievement. Remove the numbers and put the award in its place. 😊 And your at 101K 🎉 The vent may look covered but in reality they are still open to the air. Room to breathe is still available.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Oh, that is a very good idea! I think, once the vent opens it's over anyway, regardless if there is a duct above or not.

[@jasonbroom7147]

I was listening to this video while doing something else and the second time you said "slaughtered duck" I had to back up the video to see what you were talking about! :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hahaha, you can now watch the Video in German. Maybe that gives you more insight😄

[@jasonbroom7147]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia - Yeah, I think that would only make me MORE confused! :D Love your content!

[@bignikaus]

If you are concerned about the relief ports being blocked, you could add more ports to the duct with a drill. You could even just drill the duct lid and mount it lid side down.

[@mikedurham4448]

congratulations andy ! .. merry xmass to u and mrs andy !... cheers

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot Mike. Same to you too!

[@mikedurham4448]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia beerwah is sunny today .. smiles ... the plant life is going off .. as r the frogs ...lol

[@kuhrd]

One thing I would say about the cables supplied for inside the case is that the 50mm2 cable should be fine for chassis wiring up to 230 amps and the double 4 AWG cable is good for nearly 210 amps for chassis wiring. The breaker should be closer to 200A or they should include larger wires but I also wonder how hot those cables would actually really get when running at say 300 amps for about an hour till the batteries are dead? Remember inside a case like this we would only use the ampacity chart for chassis wiring but if this was in a wire way or open air you would use the power distribution or open air charts. Since the ampacity rating is directly related to heating and chassis wiring also counts the heat being conducted into other components from the wiring they can get away with running higher current for prolonged periods of time since the case adds a layer of safety and silicone does not melt but instead chars so the cable would contribute to the fuse or breaker melting or tripping long before the cable in the conductor would fail. Interestingly the fusing current in amps for copper wire is about 35.4 times the cross sectional area in mm2. I would say that even at 250Amps these breakers would be fine for instantaneous fault but may be a bit slow to react to a slight overload of say 300 amps but would likely eventually trip and still long before it is a problem in most cases. The BMS should trip long before this and the rest of the system should never let it the current get that high anyway.

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

When I look at my aircraft wire single conductor in free air wire table. A 4Awg wire will have a 100degC temperature rise at 200Amps. Then you add the ambient temperature in the box, on a hot day say 60degC in the box. The cable and its mounting hardware will temperature cycle, creating a chance the crimp and hardware will loosen in time, increasing its resistance, which causes more heat from I^2R. Also the 200Amp breaker, what trip curve does it have? That governs at what current and how much time before it trips. Good chance the BMS will go up in smoke long before the breaker trips, therefore the breaker is just an on/off switch

[@rickeemeee3252]

Merry Christmas 😊

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

To you too!

[@peterle987]

A 250A circuit breaker is only intended for accidental short-circuit situations and must not trip on short maximum power situations within the possibilities of the BMS. The overcurrent protection of the BMS takes over the overload protection. Its short-circuit protection only. Covering the valves with that floppy plastic stuff doesnt matter. You can easily turn the front plate to insert the circuit breaker ;-)

[@LynxPower-w4s]

Andy, I think you might want to check the orientation of the cable at the top of the breaker going to the main battery positive. It should come towards the front of case first and then loop round to the positive terminal

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's what they had before, I think from memory. they changed the design now.

[@LynxPower-w4s]

I’ve got another 50 units coming to Scotland shortly so I will check. I always thought that the bottom part of this connection to the positive busbar would have been better with a flexible busbar. It does work though and I rate this kit well above the Seplos

[@InspectorGadget2014]

Indeed, a smaller circuit breaker would be a way more safer choice. Look at the datasheet for a typical DC circuit breaker (so-called Characteristics Curve) where it states how the circuit breaker will react to the various currents and (especially) at what time-span it will trip (read: protect). Which can be several seconds up to several minutes(!) depending on the circuit breaker, amount of current etc etc. What people often seem to forget that the circuit breaker is not here to protect your battery (in this case/instance) but in fact the equipment connected to your battery (often the inverter). The battery can generate several hundreds of amps, no circuit breaker will be able to protect against that fast enough to avoid problems with your battery (thermals etc etc)

[@MrSqueegey]

Great to know the top fit and all screw holes lined up.think they finally got it right😅😅😅

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, I was relieved as well. But the first ones were really prototypes...

[@Gregoryfoustalierakis]

I want to ask you a question I am interesting to set the sells in a box The sells can be placed in a horizontal position as in the photo or only in an upright position ? Thanks

[@bjornemmy]

I have 6 gobel diy boxes coming delivery this friday!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Sounds like a nice weekend ahead😄

[@bjornemmy]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia it Will probably take more then a weekend to do it right 😉

[@robfre70]

Need some help installing?

[@bjornemmy]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hey Andy, i Assembled 2 Boxes this weekend, first one took for ever... these instructions realy need some work... while top balancing i noticed that the current was off a bit so calibrate it. 6Amp PSU is all i have on hand so that is what i used. connected both boxes and let them level out for 30 minutes or so, and neer the end it showed 5A of the PSU going in to pack 1 and pack 0 measured 0Amps... i started wondering, i will have at leased 6 of these boxes... that means the current will allways be extremely low during the night, 20 watts seems to be the lowest it can registr, anything under 0,4-0,6Amps does not measure... Have you made some progress on that topic? i remember you commented about it in your SOC drift video...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@bjornemmy This will always be like that. Very small current cannot be measure reliably by the BMS or any shunt. Hence, it is important that the BMS re-calibrates to 100% once fully charged.

[@olafschermann1592]

My JK BMS uses 2 thermistors to measure batter temperature. For accurate readings i dont‘t want to glue them on top but inbetween cells. What is a good thickness for that epoxy sheet where i cut out a slot for the thermistor: 2mm? 2.5mm? 3mm? Better not squeeze the termistor or better have good contact to 2 cells? Or use a 0.5mm as separator + a 2.5mm sheet for the thermistor? Are the EVA foam tapes thick enough under compression to hide the thermistor?

[@einzelkampfer2006]

What is the cross section of the bus bars? Are they adequate for 250A? I don't like how the thick cables bent over sharp metal edges. Makes all these epoxy sheets kinda useless. Also all the balance cables are touching each other. I don't think they have a fuse at the end. Interessant: Deine Videobeschreibung erscheint auf deutsch, wenn ich KZbin auf deutsch umstelle. 😀 Und herzliche Gratulation zur silbernen Platte. 👍

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The busbars are 20mm x 2mm and underrated as well for 250A. I'm with you on the cable issues. I would like to see flexible busbars for all these connections. Much cleaner, no sharp bends... Yeah, Auto-Dubbing is now enabled on my channel. It auto-translates the video and description to 7 languages. Pretty cool feature!

[@einzelkampfer2006]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, flexibles bus bars are the only good option within metal cases. Und ich hab' einen Schreck bekommen und gedacht, der Andy wird jetzt tüddelig weil er einen Text auf deutsch unters englische Video gepackt hat. 😅 Die Übersetzung ist ziemlich gut.

[@mflo1970]

Congratulations, l have used 4cm,3mm aluminium bus bars on my entire homemade bench including the bms conections 9 months later is it like the first day

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Perfect, thanks for sharing!

[@frankbierschneider8785]

Gratulation!!! Weil deserved!! 🎉🎉

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Many thanks!

[@rcinfla9017]

Fyi, I have though breakers, 250 amp rating. Measured four of them and they run about 0.45 milliohms series resistance. This means they do not have electromagnetic instant short circuit tripping. They also take a lot of force to flip the toggle. They are pretty good breakers for Chinese breakers. When a breaker has electromagnetic short circuit latch coil it adds a lot of series resistance to breaker due to the series latch electromagnetic coil that trips quickly on high current. Typically, in 4 to 5 milliohms of series resistance range. They get pretty hot.

[@mckenziekeith7434]

A very short cable connecting massive bus bars can probably carry a bit more current because the bus bars conduct the heat away. But you are right that the tables do not make any allowance for length.

[@sammaimas155]

Good recommendation for Gobel power to include a QR Code to the latest update manual...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's an easy step, right?!

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

Heya, that gobel Power battery DIY battery box looks very good I would give it 4 out of 5

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Nah, it is not a 4 in my opinion. A 4 would be really good, almost perfect. The Gobel box is not that...

[@s300bhp]

Seplos has just uploaded a new filmware for the v3 BMS to set 100% soc at 3.45v it would be good if you could do a trial of this Andy?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Sure can. Thanks for letting me know.

[@s300bhp]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Great Andy thanks, there is a lot of us here in the UK wondering if it will work or not.

[@thegrimreaper7777]

I am considering buying either the ready built or the kit version of this battery (after watching your reviews) but have similar concerns regarding the huge circuit breaker. Could you suggest a replacement 125 or 150 amp version that would fit in the same place as the supplied one to make me feel safer? Dimensions of the supplied one would be useful to use for comparison and selection of a replacement. Would a smaller one have less issues with the heatshrink damage like you found?

[@wennyyuan0207]

HI Andy ,we are confident that we can beat their boxes in quality and price : )

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Who is that?

[@ocular57]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Uncle G says XiHo Energy whoever they are? Andy you need to take on their challenge to see if they can gain 5 frogs!

[@moestrei]

Put some facts to your words.

[@wennyyuan0207]

@ am waiting Andy agree accepting our sample testing

[@john999]

Regarding the "slotted duct". Are you sure, that it should be placed ontop of the bolts and not on the side of it? You drilled two holes in it, to fit it over the bolts. But how can you fit cables through the duct itself then?🤔

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

There is still a lot of space inside the duct around the two bolts. Gobel has sent me photo with the duct in the middle. Later, it turned out to be a customer photo, not what Gobel is suggesting. I have installed it on one side inside the metal rail now. Works well and keeps the cables organised.

[@jextermaputol5524]

hey andy. could you please include the link of cable sizing link in your spreadsheet table?? so everybody can check Easly the correct sizing of cables and breakers. Thanks a lot. my friend

[@DanBurgaud]

28:35 I managed to replace the jk bms on an existing yixiang box with 3 more piled on top. Imagine doing all that with these gooble boxes...

[@tonydickerson999]

Have you worked out what the cross sectional area is on the links are, I doubt they are much better, yet alone the tracks on the BMS, also I have put 800A through non silicon cables and although they get hot it does take a little while, by which time there's a good chance that the bi-metal strip in the circuit breaker will of caused it to trip, would make an interesting test though especially if comparing different manufacturers

[@zisaurierzisaurier9286]

I like the extension of the extension of the extension looks like in my home

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Works all the time😄

[@TheRonskiman]

I routinely discharge at 190 amps for an hour at a time, I do have two 48v batteries in my rack so only 95 amps per battery though. This discharge is for the saving sessions where we get fairly good rewards, not as good as last year though.

[@OskarHartmannsson]

200A BMS needs a 250A braker, 250A @80% is 200A and that is the standard if you are using full load over long time, the same is true for car chargers as they pull full power over a long time a 32A charger should be cabled and have a braker of 40A. and yes cable length is a thing for short cables and 50mm2 @ under 1m is good for a lot more than 250A

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You are using 200A from one of such a battery?

[@OskarHartmannsson]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia no absolutely not but that is a function of the BMS, if you want just 100A output the BMS size should be adjusted you don't want the braker to be smaler than the cut off in the BMS, and as a consequence the wiring wold be a lot easier with smaler gauge wire 35mm2

[@schunkelndedschunke6914]

The 1st GobelPower Box I have bought, has a built in 150A Circuit breaker and 2 mega fuses. Than they changed to the 250A circuit breaker only. GobelPower should give more space in the front for the bms and active balancer and change from the cables to copper bars.

[@vk4kws]

Isn't the current rating for continuous draw. The cables could "maybe" handle the 250a long enough to trip the breaker?

[@Dan-g8k5n]

nice, but i won´t hang a ~100 kg box only on 4 tiny screws on the front panel to mount it in the rack... this definitely needs a support on the back

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The server rack has rails, the box will sit on to slide it in and out.

[@andreaskappen6342]

Vielen Dank für die TOP Videos und alles Gute für 2025👍

[@SylwerDragon]

Nice video. I mostly agree that circuit breaker doesn't have to be 250Amps. i believe 200A is plenty. but i'm using water heater that could use 8-9kW ..if i used bigger one that is 15kW instant power..then aircon 2kW ..then some cooker 5kW one microwave 2kW and one water heater(for coffee) 2kW ..so total 26kW ..ofc I'm not saying you will use it often.. that is why i have two 11kW Inverters. and max i went so far was about 18kW as test..but normally 10-12kW is max i use

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

But you are not using 18kW from one battery, right?

[@SylwerDragon]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia haha Nooo Andy... I have 2x310AH batttery bank (2x 200Amp BMS from JK) and one 2x310(parrally connected cells) with one 500Amp JK BMS, these are all DYI battery banks so even in worst case scenario i'm not taking so much from them

[@CantFindInYoutube]

Congrats for the award

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks to you and your support!

[@diederickr]

I know it's a CB but it's it more of an isolation switch? Install a fuse in the output. Also can you test a 50mm cable at 200 amps?

[@TheSaucySocks]

how do you think this battery compares to the seplos battery?

[@jamiroquai33]

If Andy is right about cable sizing, then all BMS on the market is crap. Do you know any bms board with conductors cross section above 50mm2?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I'm stressing about this for a long time!

[@j.k.1964]

The main error Andy makes on the cable topic is to take the table for ambient temp of 150°C. Using one for more resonable ambient temp. of e.g. 85°C (in the battery box!) would show, that continous 250Amps are possible without exceeding the usual 180°C max. temperatures for silicon cables.

[@CollinBaillie]

I'm pretty sure, you don't want a 180°C cable inside your battery box! You don't want more than about 10°C temperature rise on your internal cables. Ambient temperature should be the temperature of your environment, NOT the maximum temperature you want to see inside the pack. Take Andy's garage. He might see 45-50°C in there during summer. That would be ambient. With the battery doing nothing for a number of hours at that temperature, the cables and all else inside would equalise to that temperature. Then turn the battery on and load it up, the temperature rise in the cables (and the BMS, bus bars, etc) would heat up the internals of the pack. You wouldn't want to exceed about 65°C inside the case. So maybe 10-15°C temperature rise, worst case scenario. The battery box and parts included MUST be rated for worst case scenarios, with reasonable boundaries (they're not going to sell a general kit engineered for an environment (ambient temp) of 85°C, that would be hella expensive, and would accommodate 0.0001% of use cases). So, having the correctly sized cable would be required to prevent heat generation under the rated load to no more than 10°C, given that the cells, the BMS, bus bars etc all generate heat. I like another comment suggesting that you add more packs in parallel. You run the packs WELL under the rating, meaning you never generate potential heat under maximum rated load. This is more likely the scenario these designs are aimed at, and if Gobel (and others) were consulted on an ESS overall system, they would most likely include this advice, based on their design.

[@j.k.1964]

@@CollinBaillie No question, that high temps should be avoided within the pack. But this is not the task of the breaker - it should prevent damage of the cable and reduce the risk of fire hazard due to cable burning. And for silicon cable and usual ambient temperature of the cable it should just work out. But using a lower rated breaker would be better for the setup.

[@joggiepretorius4271]

With all the rain have you ever considered adding some water tanks to supplement the solar and have a truly off grid solution ?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

We have lots of watertanks and are not using town water for anything.

[@308parker]

What is the best Forum to discuss and ask questions about all the products you review plus more within a diy solar community?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You can ask here or have a look at the DIY solar forum.

[@yooper423]

It seems to me that they are using the 250 Amp circuit breaker as a simple disconnect and not for any protection. Definitely overkill.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, it is more a marketing thing in my opinion.

[@geraldpopp6719]

I think the 50mm² cable is suitable. The resistance of 50cm 50mm² is 0,168 mΩ that means at 250A continous you burn 10,5 Watts. That will not melt the cable. At max you can pull this current for about 1h then the battery is empty. Do you think you can melt this cable with 10Wh ? Think of an 300A ANL fuse - how much mm² has the fuse link ? It can carry the 250A for verry long time. Greetings from gray and cold Austria - 0 Amps outside !

[@bile024]

Hi Andy! I think, your KZbin reward plate should be standing beneath the "subscriber counter" wall! Congratulations by the way on the reward, and thank you for all the knowledge that you share with us! ❤

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you, that's a great idea!

[@finnskellig7422]

Hi Andy, What would you and your followers recommend the Pace Bms of Jk Bms? I currently have 2 12v battery setups using jk bms and im looking for feedback on the pace Bms. Cheers

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Are you not happy with the JK-BMS or why would you consider the Pace BMS instead? I'm not aware that the Pace BMS is even available for a 12V battery.

[@mtdare00]

Hi Andy, I am a channel member and love watching your videos as the are informative and you have a great down to earth way of presenting. However I disagree with your comments regarding current over the length of a cable. Your analogy of the 1m, or 100m (not your exact figures) is a good way of explaining this. The longer the cable the less current in can carry while maintaining an acceptable voltage drop, this is due to the increase in resistance of the cable. So if your cable is short, as in most battery cases voltage drop isn't a problem and there are no calculators that can accurately rate a cable that is 300mm long. It just gets back to heat and how much the insulation will withstand and due to the short length there isn't much heat. Same goes for the busbars, these are lucky if they are 20mm2, but are fine due to their short length with only a mild increase in temperature. I have done testing with a 35mm2 cable at 200A from a 12V 300Ah battery and while the cable gets warm it is well within an acceptable limit. The critical points are the crimps and bolted connections of cables and cells. Sorry this is so long. Keep up the good work😊

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

As I explained in the video, we are not talking about voltage drop but pure ampacity of cables. The length does not matter.

[@philipbarth5937]

Congrats, I have a technical question. I purchased a kit, because of you.😂 the cells arrived this week, I will not be able to build the kit until next year. They will be stored in our barn and it is not heated. Will they be ok or should I do something different in the storage? Thanks

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Totally fine to store them as they are. Even if there is frost in your barn, no problem as long as you don't charge them in these temps.

[@flemmingmulbjerg6124]

Congratulation on the Award. Half a year ago I bought Gobel Power Battery DIY Kit V1, with BMS Model JK200-ESS and 4A Bluetooth Balancer. I installed both in my battery pack. I'm now wiser 😊, but what do I do now? Should I remove the 4A Bluetooth Balancer or ?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. Noooo, keep the Pace BMS and balancer. this works very well and has no issues. The Pace BMS is a great BMS and the NEEEYYY is capable of keeping everything balanced.

[@flemmingmulbjerg6124]

you misunderstand. i bought a JK BMS and 4A. It is not the Pace BMS I bought, but the JK200-ESS !! so I now drive with two active balances. So what should I do, remove 4A or ?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@flemmingmulbjerg6124 Ah, yes, sorry. I misread... Well, there is no harm in having several active balancers. I would leave it installed and just ensure, the NEEY is starting to balance at the same time as the JK or even a bit later.

[@flemmingmulbjerg6124]

thank you very much for the answer. I have seen all your episodes, you do a great job. thank you very much for that

[@johncampbell2311]

cally 1/0 AWG (American Wire Gauge) copper wire, which is suitable for most applications with this amperage, especially for shorter cable runs; for longer distances, consider using a 2/0 AWG cable to minimize voltage drop. Key points to remember: Wire gauge: Always consult a wire gauge chart to ensure the cable size is adequate for the current draw. Cable length: Longer cable runs may require a larger gauge wire to compensate for voltage drop. Application: Consider the specific application (e.g., solar power system, battery bank) when choosing the cable type and size.

[@zisaurierzisaurier9286]

Hi Andy, did you are also regard heat pumps for your maximum power in addition to all your other stuff?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, I have three AC inside the house and they are super efficient, using less than 500W when keeping the house cool. More in a future video.

[@jackturtle131]

Congrats mate

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you.

[@BluBioBike]

I´ve got the V1 in August 24. Only difference of V2 to V1 is the display and dthe cable duct. The rest is the same.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, not much change...

[@4431mike]

Looked at purchasing the Gobel DIY box, shipping costs to NZ are way more than the kit itself, making it impossibly expensive, how do you get them so cheap in Australia.

[@concernedcitizen3159]

Hey from OZ I have bought some of the various battery cases etc recommended here and they do not arrive for the same price and never in as complete form as you see here. I guess Andy is just better at "bargaining" with the suppliers. oR he gets special treatment because of his profile/spending, if he does indeed pay for everything then he has spent 30/40k on batteries alone. He does provide valuable feedback to manufacturers and advertising by proxy. I paid about AU$800 for the YiXiang per case delivered to Vic Aus with JK BMS unassembled.

[@5nowChain5]

We need a 24v 2p8s Version. Maybe offer a case version that with side mounting points to allow rack mounting.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I think the EEL box can do that actually.

[@gibo1971]

Heres a question for you. The old 200 amp JK BMS (non inverter) has twin 7AWG (10mm2?) cables soldered to the BMS. Surely these small cables cant handle 200 amps?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep correct, we have discussed this in the past. Far too thin. Hence, I have an external breaker of 100A for all my batteries in the shelf.

[@gibo1971]

@ thanks for the reply. Congrats on your 100k subs. Maybe you should calibrate a spat per subscriber (this may take some time but max effort is the key). I am putting in a 4th battery (it is very addictive and you are to blame as I never would have had the confidence to do it myself if it hadn’t been for your channel). I have 100 amp noark breakers (the big ones) on each box (liyuan battery boxes). Should I be putting a fuse on as well?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@gibo1971 Thank you. Hahaha, A SPAT per sub sounds like an excessive party. I have to invite you all to help me.

[@gibo1971]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I am waiting by the mail box for my invite (and my next set of batteries.)

[@gibo1971]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia why have a 200 amp bms if the cables attached are on 7awg? It seems pointless (or am I over thinking)

[@twingoman2000]

hm, not really fully correct Andy what you said on the cables. As Cables are getting longer, the Resistenz is getting higher, the Voltage drop is getting higher and the Temperatur due to higher Resistance is increasing. Short to say, higher Resistance, lower voltage = higher amps going thru the cable. For DC power you can check on Cable length / thickness calculators, as longer the cable is, as thicker it should be to lower the Resistance and voltage drop. 😅 .. I think you will agree to it or check such kind of calculators

[@petermeier7149]

Cable length increases resistance, which means a higher voltage drop. The voltage drop increases the power lost in the cable, which heats up the cable and decreases the current it can carry. But Andy is right in the sense,that a short cable length cant increase the current a cable can carry. 50mm2 is definitely to small for 250 Amps🥴

[@twingoman2000]

@petermeier7149 Yeah, sure, the cable is decreasing possible load lets say but different point of view: If you pull same Wattage over the cabel by lower voltage the amps will increase right? 😉😅 means pulling 5kw on 1m is different then on 5m Also many calculators say, at a 2% voltage drop which already is high (my opinion) you can go with 50mm² at 250A on short cable length without big issues Truly bigger is always better, but on my 12v system max thickness is 70mm² and 250A is quickly reached but always with max 0,5m length 🤷

[@petermeier7149]

​@@twingoman2000 If that works in your System 🤷‍♂️ But the Voltage of the load is not really import. The cable has a defined resistance which multiplied by the amount of amps, causes the cable to behave like a resistor in series. In your cause with 0,5m 50mm2 you would have a voltage drop of 0,12V×250 Amps would mean, that each of your cables burn around 30 Watts of heat.

[@Stefanfj]

The ability of a wire to cool itself down depends on the surface area available to dissipate heat. Since wiring can be simplified as a cylinder when doing thermo calculations for steady state Qin=Qout, where you multiply by the length of for heat addition calculation, but also multiply by the same length for heat rejection calculation, the length just cancels out - its common on both sides. Length has absolutely zero impact on the ampacity of a wire. Ampacity is the determined ability of a wire to continuously carry a specific amount of current while remaining below some rated temperature (usually 60, 75 or 90 degrees Celsius) in a defined ambient condition - ampacity is one of 2 factors used to select the size of a conductor. the other is voltage drop, which is independent of the insulation material or ambient considerations.

[@twingoman2000]

​@@petermeier7149 how you calculate 10% of voltage drop? it will be at around 2-4% at 50mm² which would lead to 0,024 to 0,048v voltage drop right? with this it only "burns" around 6-12w but not 30w correct?

[@gavlikor]

i have 3 DIY kit from GobelPower and two off them are version 2 they realy improved quality. In both I have recevied these 50mm silicon cables so it isn't option. First of these V2 was delivered without cable's duct but in the second one it helps me a lot to cover all balance and bms cables. for me it is right now 🐸🐸🐸🐸🐸

I could not use these 16 cell boxes or the new inverter BMS because I have 17 cell batteries to give me a little higher voltage for efficiency so I use the older JK BMS that can handle up to 24 cells in my home brew setups..

[@SebyLazarovici]

But what about the 4p16s or 5p16s configuration? The batteries in parallel must have the same internal resistance, preferably?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I would not recommend any xp16s batteries as there is no control about single cells.

[@about2088]

⁠​​Hey Andy! Quick question for ya, will a battery cell with the dimensions of 283mmx55.2mmx361 ( height x width x length ) fit in this case, 16 of them to be exact? I’m wondering if I can fit the Winston 260ah lifepo4 batteries in this case.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Have a look at the dimensions of the EVE cells LF280K, MB30, MB31, they are all the same.

[@about2088]

@ thank you for your response.

[@mckenziekeith7434]

That is not silicone wire is it?

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

No circuit breaker is fast enough to protect the Hexfets in the BMS. The Hexfets will either fail open or short, both cases the magic smoke may be released. If the BMS Hexfets fail short you will never know until you try to shut down the BMS by the app or the BMS has not protected the battery. If the BMS Hexfets fail open the battery will not supply voltage or current. The circuit breaker has a trip curve which governs how fast it trips and at what current above its rating that happens. In the end the circuit breaker is just a switch to disconnect the battery.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The purpose of the circuit breaker is to prevent a cable fire. Same like in your house. And yes, the trip curve matters a lot, hence I think these breakers are far too large for the cables and overall usage of such a battery. It is marketing, nothing else. But from a safety standpoint, not great!

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes cable fire would be a bad thing. Yes the breaker needs to be lower amperage then the BMS, still suspect the BMS should maybe fail open circuit before the 200A breaker trips. Myself use Airpax breakers with the trip curve 52 or 51, 59 to rapid trip on intermitent loads Trip curve 52 load 100% no trip 125% 2.5 to 100 seconds 150% 1.5 to 40 seconds 200% 0.65 to 15 seconds 400% 0.15 to 2.5 seconds Trip curve 51 load 100% no trip 125% 0.5 to 8 seconds 150% 0.3 to 4 seconds

[@ocular57]

3 roles fuse/circuit breaker have 1: protect BMS electronics - needs to be fast 2: prevent cable destruction 3: perform safe disconnect without ongoing arcing when the disconnect occurs under load. Dont believe these MCCB are fast enough to protect BMS and concerned that these cheaper MCCBs may not perform a safe connect at 20kA?? Need someone to drop their wrench across their box terminals and take a video and see that the JKBMS is no more and whether the MCCB survives.. @univereisundernoobligationio you are correct MCCB alone is not adequate

[@anzzgar]

Nooo, 125A is a bit too less for the battery, with around 150A youll be at the trip-level of the Breaker, which means if i ever have a peak it will trigger, and ill have to manually restart the battery. Dor the most cases id like to have the BMS stop everything and not mechanically the breaker. Also the 190A is for the cable for very very long times, it takes a long time for the cables to actually have a ambient temperature of 50-60° when in the box, and itll have to be several hours of charging/discharging with over 150A

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I use a 63A breaker in my battery shelf to connect other external batteries and run it on 80A forever. Yeah, it gets warm but does not trip. 150A for 20s also no problem.

[@natesoffroad]

What about voltage drop due to length.. creates more resistance, thus lowers the current carry capacity.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

As I explained in the video, we are not talking about voltage drop but pure ampacity of cables. The length does not matter.

[@natesoffroad]

@OffGridGarageAustralia oh yes rated vs actual

[@davidoldkitten2660]

Hey Andy i have my 2 victron 100/50 set on factory lifepro4 my 24 volt Batteries and when the sun is at full steam and my Batteries are full Absorption at 28.4 volts they stay there Do you Think that is a little High ...what would you recommend.....Will powers Now He says we should run these lifepro4 Batteries wide Open......we He First started a couple of years ago He Said run full 80 Percent was Better ..

[@RobSteve1]

Andy has his setting listed on his web page. You would just divide them by two, for your 24v system. I just made a 8s mb31 system and have set the absorb voltage to 27.6 as suggested by Andy’s settings.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

For 24V, I would recommend setting the charge controllers to the following: Absorption Voltage: 27.6V (3.45V/cell) Float Voltage: 26.8V (3.35V/cell) Absorption time: 1h (depending on your balancer and match of your cells) As @RobSteve1 said, all my settings with detailed explanations and screenshots can be found here: off-grid-garage.com/my-settings/