Jim Cornette Reviews A&E's WWE Rivals: WCW vs. WWE

From Episode 256 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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[@cliffbeavers6158]

The Mick/Taker Hell in a Cell match was also a game changer.

[@SpaceGhost92]

Why isn’t the original hell in a cell not thought of this way? It was a way better match

[@Jiren261]

@@SpaceGhost92 It was but the Foley spots are just too memorable and take away it's shine. But I think HIAC 1 is more iconic as a whole - Better match - Kane Debut - Shawn bleeding - Shawn's spot off the cell onto the table

[@maxdecphoenix]

I love mick, but honest to god, if it weren't for steve austin, mick and taker would have had that match infront of 10 people at the local national guard armory. For real, the way Steve was able to just grab people's attention away from WCW was unparalleled by anyone else on the roster. The other guys then rose to the occasion and were able to support him and capitalize on that attention with world caliber matches to hold people's focus, but only once people were actually looking. The attitude era rose with Steve, and wrestling died when he left (pg era). No bones about it. He was the rising tide that lifted all the other boats,

[@Winckypoo]

@@maxdecphoenixthis is pretty revisionist, Austin was huge and obviously was already on his way to being the biggest star the business ever saw but you’re taking away so much of the decades of that the WWF brand built before that

[@EwanCumia]

That match made Mick Foley a star. The following January, he'd win the belt on Raw. That wouldn't have happened if not for Hell in a Cell.

[@marknadratowski5728]

They didn't mention the Crockett years because that would prove that Vince McMahon didn't invent pro wrestling.

[@troysmith5749]

good point, i'm sure a & e believes that freddy prinze jr and vince mcmahon co-created professional wrestling and triple h made it mainstream when he had the wedding of the century with stephanie

[@siroyalflush]

"Sports Entertainment"

[@heisensaul5538]

Well Vince didn't invent pro-wrestling, he invented Sports entertainment.

[@jackforster7783]

@@heisensaul5538 that is actually true tbf 😂

[@Jd-zr8bs]

Everyone knows that was Vinnie's dad lol

[@scottmartin3228]

My reaction to Hall showing up on Nitro was that it was real. That WWF had sent him to mess with WCW. I remember saying at the time "Wrestling might be fake, but that's real!"

[@Rjensen2]

For me, The Wrestler had put out a magazine with a story about a joint PPV between WCW and the WWF "Is No Longer Just Talk!", so I thought they were actually going to do an inter-promotional show.

[@kevinpayton2664]

@@Rjensen2 That would've been awesome if they had done it.

[@troysmith5749]

martin, scott...hopefully you were just a dumb kid at the time plot twist: you're an 60 year old man and a really dumb adult

[@Zer0Passion]

How….? Bro doesn’t know how contracts work 😭💀

[@istaypuftmarshmallowman3305]

I thought it was part of the show then I saw Nash throw Ray Mysterio like a javelin into a trailer. I thought “oh man, this could be real.”

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

Nash: "Say you're a guy working the drive-thru at Burger King and the fast food joint across the street will double your take home and you'll have to only work half as many shifts, what would you do? I mean, yeah, it's Hardee's, but fuck it!"

[@tylerbushong3452]

I laughed WAY TOO HARD at that!!!

[@J0HNJ0RDAN]

I actually like Hardee's better than BK anyway 😅

[@HowIDoItFaM]

As soon as Hall showed up on WCW television the fans got a sense of gone are the gimmicks this is a real guy.

[@john_blues]

Then he started doing 30 minute boring ass promos. 😴 Shop Beam!

[@huh8662]

Only they didn't because he still used some of the Razor accent

[@thejanglezclan]

This isn't the groundbreaking take you thought it was.

[@christhornycroft3686]

@@huh8662 He had to. Nobody knew him as anything else in wrestling at that point. He was literally playing Razor Ramon invading WCW.

[@huh8662]

@@christhornycroft3686 hence why the accent stopped shortly after the WWF sued WCW & while most newer fans only knew him as Razor, older fans like me still remembered him from his run in the AWA.

[@rtelly16]

I love how Jim has gotten more and more ridiculous with the ads! Meanwhile Brian is trying desperately to stop him with fear of folks who don’t understand sarcasm. Good stuff fellas! Maybe have your editor make a compilation of Jim’s bizarre sponsor advertisements, comedy gold!

[@martyklestadt6766]

Yeah; I had been just skipping the end of the videos when the ad would start, but now I'm finding them just as entertaining as the rest of the podcast (that's here on KZbin).

[@testament0]

you're in luck kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGXFmqSYfq-EqKc

[@bbryan009]

$147,000! Brian: "No."

[@davidmurray6949]

He has a omnibus of his commercial 5 hours of funny stuff 😄

[@martyklestadt6766]

@@davidmurray6949 Wow; I may have to listen to that one sometime!

[@greenskiis]

I always got a kick over how Vince tried to make Turner out to be obsessed with him, while he was likely barely on his radar.

[@mc12358]

I read an article in my newspaper's sports section around 1998-99 that seriously discussed the possibility that Turner and McMahon would face each other in a cage match. At the time, it seemed like a legitimate possibility!

[@mox19380]

exactly. turner couldn't care less about mcmahon. bischoff was obsessed with mcmahon

[@DLRX]

Agreed, especially when it was the exact opposite, Vince was the one obsessed with Turner. McMahon wasn't shit in Turner's backyard.

[@Cbaker2024]

That's simply not true, Ted Turner bought and sold to Vince McMahon Florida Championship Wrestling and gave him a slot on his network, only to take away his programming forcing Vince to sell it to Him Crockett and Turner eventually bought it from Crockett creating WCW! Ted Turner saw that Vince was on to something and there was money to be made in professional wrestling as at the time there was only 1 national wrestling promotion that existed, the WWF! Turner, after a falling out with McMahon, forced him to sell to Jim Crockett promotions because Turner decided he wouldn't honor the deal he had with Vince which was a handshake agreement to sir WWF on TBS! Having no choice Vince was forced to sell the TV rights deal to Crockett for $1 million dollars that was used to fund Wrestlemania 1! Turner saw the success of Wrestlemania and knew that wrestling on cable could make a fortune, he bought mid Atlantic from Crockett named it WCW, and was hyper focused for on putting Vince McMahon and WWF out of business, hence the Monday Night Wars! Vince McMahon lives rent free in Ted Turner's head for at least a decade because he knew if he could put Vince and WWF out of business he would have the number 1 wrestling company in the world that he could air on his networks, TBS & TNT for free and make millions or as we knew now billions of dollars!

[@ac14cmpunk25]

​@@DLRXVince was obsessed with Turner und Bischoff with Vince

[@Jhh983]

I remember the war and weather you were for wcw or wwf and I was for wcw. everyone loved Steve Austin. He was the ultimate blue collar guy

[@brysoncherry9884]

Right down to beating his wife after drinking.

[@thecapn3560]

Whether *

[@jaredhouk8710]

@@thecapn3560 language police 👮‍♂️ 🚓🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

[@anteupjit]

@@thecapn3560 the asterisk goes to the left side smh

[@martyklestadt6766]

@@jaredhouk8710 Well, that was a pretty egregious word crime.

[@crazypretzel1012]

I still loved the Nitro when Hall and Nash showed up and there were armed security guards at ringside because WCW was playing off how dangerous the atmosphere was. That was cool stuff back then.

[@nkotbfreak2983]

The show was just way too short to tell such a story, Austin vs Hogan, Rock vs Flair, Dx vs Outsiders, Taker vs Sting what a Wrestlemania we could have had

[@thejanglezclan]

Undertaker vs. Sting could've happened at WrestleMania 31 *well* past both men's primes and after the hype had died down and they could've actually had a quality match. Sadly, Undertaker was in his ego (yet again) and never wanted the match. Look it up, the info isn't hard to find.

[@apetogetherstrong4243]

we also never had rock vs micheals but we know why

[@huha3713]

@@thejanglezclan weren’t they gonna have a match at mania 27 but sting decided not to jump ship to wwe after their past treatment of past WCW stars especially Booker T?

[@MichaelSmith-fq6hz]

“Vince wasn’t going to get off.” Of course not. There were no paralegals around.

[@OmegaRedFan]

How come we never got wcw vs wwf dream matches? For Real, Because Vince gave millions of dollars to married women.

[@TheEvolver311]

​@@OmegaRedFanbecause the mega stars of WCW continued to get their contracted payments while sitting on ass and by the time they weren't life had moved on and it wouldn't have been much of a big deal.

[@T_Fantico]

NWO promos definitely blurred the line. It was about the last time you could believe there was a little "real" left in wrestling. Mainly by them shitting on everybody and everything that was classic wrestling.

[@maxdecphoenix]

launching rey into a trailer like a human lawn-dart helped quite a bit. Those early NWO promos where they fought everyone in the back and hit people with bats was the greatest tv that 12year old me had ever seen. once it started moving into the ring more and more and NWO holding 45 minute promo's every nitro it started getting stale REALLY quick.

[@Aaronjosephhernandez]

Scott Hall is underrated, that promo he cut "You people, you know who I am, but you don't know why I'm here." "You want to go to war? You want a war?..you're going to get one". This line in itself started the Monday Night War.

[@Bale4Bond]

Everyone constantly highlights it and it is still highly talked about....so no

[@Aaronjosephhernandez]

@@Bale4Bond They did not highlight that in the WWE vs WCW rivals documentary they glossed over that. They showed a clip but did not highlight Scott Halls push and ultimately the force of the Monday night wars

[@Bale4Bond]

@@Aaronjosephhernandez well, they did highlight it in just every other bit of Monday Night War media, so there you. I'd call almost call that sensible restraint, given how overplayed it is.

[@septv9995]

@@Bale4Bond Yeah they show that clip all the time. Also seems like people always talk about Scott Hall being great so I don't know if I would say he is underrated. I guess it depends who you talk to.

[@Aaronjosephhernandez]

@@septv9995 WWF thought he was so great they never put the world title on him. He was looked as a midcarder. He went over to WCW and put himself over, that's why his legacy is talked about.

[@garydart7]

It's all glossed over, it's done from the WWE perspective,as all the shows in this series are.

[@thejanglezclan]

The winner gets to write the history books. Go drink some soy melk and try not to spill it on one of your participation awards.

[@garydart7]

@@thejanglezclan I was merely making the point off what Jim Cornette said,he's the one saying glossed over.To me it's ancient history.If I want to revisit it I know how to,but it's not that important to me.I also don't drink soy milk,(but do know how to spell it) Also, I have done a lot better than participation awards in my life,stay woke loser!

[@TheEWFX29]

@@thejanglezclan But what is there to say. WCW/NWA was always a distant second. Most of the time WCW was always having problems, financial trouble and less then performing live shows. Jim likes to make Crockett time there some having great business but they always were having problems. The brief periods of success were always over shadowed by times of flat or bad business periods during Crockett's run. When JCP tried to be more than they should have taken, territoriality and otherwise, on they were in constant trouble and needed things to go perfect for them to move forward. They still had horrible live show business sometimes in the low thousands in many places. Things might have been glossed over but the "wars" are more to sell DVDs and do shows like these then them being a valid situation where WWF/E was in a serious battle with WCW/NWA. The war and WCW's TV ratings lead only lasted less than 2 years in a otherwise 20 year period for both companies. Not real true competition. WWE/F was a global corporation, WCW/JCP was a mainly southeastern US company. Its all hype to sell stories, myth building and a challenge that for the most part never really existed.

[@Mr.Classic91]

@@thejanglezclan no they don't lol. Not in this regard, it's almost more people listening to the truth via these podcasts than watching the product of wwe now

[@matthewmagda4971]

The wrong side won. If WCW lost, it was because of financial mismanagement, even though they had more talent and put on better matches. Even into some parts of TNA, I would rather watch Sting, Hogan and Flair than whatever vanilla gym bros were kissing the ass of VKM.

[@Sevenduece]

Wasn't a tank... It was a jeep

[@himynameisbrandonlee]

It's amazing that Hogan changed the business in 1984 as one of the greatest babyfaces and was the pivotal nut in 1996 as one of the greatest heels. Love him or hate him he is always been in the fold. And as Champion. Corny rules by the way.

[@avalond1193]

Alot people love say stone cold was the top star but it will always be Hogan he made both wwf and WCW big and had longevity while stone cold was only WWE and only for few short years and was surpassed by the rock

[@darreng745]

@@avalond1193 Maybe that is thought to be so but in terms of TV I would have put Stone Cold ahead as for the best part of 5 years Austin led the WWF/WWE to its most profitable period, That is something that Hogan can't claim and also the downside of Hogan's run in both promotions was his use of his buddies to fill the slots around him so no one got to outshine him. People like Brutus Beefcake or Earthquake who were there to lay down for Hogan where as Austin did work with people across the card

[@avalond1193]

@@darreng745 well no one is accusing Hogan to be a saint 🤣 I agree he was a politician but it's no different from the cliq and the best friends in aew today or anywhere in wrestling.. it kinda comes with the territory with stars .. as far as stone cold making the most money ever for WWE Hogan still beats him alot people like to rewrite history especially WWE in 80s you couldn't turn away and not see hulk Hogan vitamins hulk Hogan bubble baths Hogan's Rick wrestling cartoon the merch was insane and sold tons it's why Hogan was the headline for so long and then don't forget those nwo shirts and merchandise in WCW those nwo shirts outsold stone colds shirts it is what it is and let's not forget when Hogan came back to WWE how fans quickly went behind him to the point booing both the rock and stone cold. Where Austin soon after took his ball and went home. I'm not trying diminish Austin's success I like him too but gotta be fair and honest something WWE has a trouble of doing

[@countryboyred]

Austin had a higher peak but it was short lived (1997-2003) Hogan was a household name from the 1980s through the early 2000s. I’m an Austin fan but the impact Hogan had on the business was undeniable. With all that being said, Flair is the GOAT in my opinion.

[@trinityj1]

@@countryboyred I'd argue Hogan is the most famous/recognisable wrestler of all time (for /being a wrestler/, not for outside endeavours like movies) and is still more famous than any current active wrestler. I wasn't alive for his heyday and don't understand the appeal at all, but he became a lasting cultural icon on a level that I don't think Stone Cold, as popular as he was, really comes that close to.

[@hughmorris2078]

Seeing Travis's artwork the only similarities I can think that Cornette has in common with Dennis Rodman is a less than traditional sex life. Lol

[@DrewKane]

Both men say the n word openly

[@K-dawg26]

@@DrewKane What do you expect? Dennis is black and Jim is a white guy from the south.

[@hughmorris2078]

@@DrewKane OK two things!

[@diegorivas1991]

​@@DrewKane Just like in South Park, only afroamericans are allowed to say "nigga" and homosexuals "fags" to their peers without being considered offensive, but not by the rest of the people.

[@troystaunton254]

I remember an interview with Nash where he talks about after he and hall debuted on nitro, they and bischoff caught a private jet back to where ever, and on the flight bischoff was so excited and giddy and saying they were gonna put Vince out of business, when Nash dropped the bombshell “You don’t realise what just happened do you? People legitimately think 2 guys from New York came down here and challenged every single guy on the wcw roster and they were to scared to fight back. You’re not putting Vince out of business.”

[@trinityj1]

I have a feeling he would have told the story differently during the 83 weeks.

[@arnabmukhopadhyay7078]

I think a more logical division of the topic could've been done through a 2 parter. 1. WWE vs JCP in the 80s 2. Raw vs Nitro in the 90s. Putting everything in one basket tends to gloss over too many details.

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

Vince was happy to put every other promoter out of business, but as soon as its being done to him its a whole different story. _"They're trying to take food out of our mouths"_

[@mox19380]

i hated this rivals ep because it was basically like re-living my break-up with professional wrestling

[@spanky9676]

Even at the time I thought that it was funny that 30 year old Shawn Michaels and 38 year old Bret Hart were being pushed as “young guys”. Hell, Bret is only 4 years younger than hogan.

[@brian_b_music]

Dude 30 is young. Your brain doesn’t fully develop until you’re 25. Honestly 38 is still young for that matter. We aren’t in the Middle Ages anymore. People are living longer thanks to medicines, and the nutritional information that we have now. My wife’s grandmother is 90 and you probably couldn’t keep up with her. As far as wrestling that all depends on how you’ve worked, and if you haven’t taken too many stupid bumps. The way guys work now, they’re all gonna be old and broken down before 30.

[@scrappy93]

@@brian_b_music 30 is certain sports. 38 is really old. You're looking at it from normal life point of view. No need for a novel.

[@brian_b_music]

@@scrappy93 You think that’s a novel? You must not have spent much time in comment sections. I’ve seen people write an entire saga in the comments. Also I did mention age as relative to wrestlers in my last few sentences.

[@paranoidewok6772]

How come to this day people talk about HBK not being a draw as champion but fail to mention that nearly all of Bret's run from 92 to 97 he wasn't drawing much either? Bret was hardly setting the world on fire either.

[@travisheckel3788]

I actually agree and I like Bret

[@paranoidewok6772]

@@travisheckel3788 he's one my favorites but it's true. Everyone says Diesel couldn't draw! HBK couldn't draw! But where's mention of the guy who was hand picked by Vince as thee guy to replace Hogan and all them guys? The entire business was down and Hogan and Flair weren't drawing either in WCW during the same time frame as HBK and Bret.

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

For real. People act like Nash took a thriving company and ran it into the ground when they lost money in 1994 too.

[@newhere2419]

100%,

[@shaynewest8757]

Bret was WWF's biggest ever draw in Europe but that's right everything starts and ends in America according to Americans.

[@theboxingboy7422]

This story has been told so much at nauseam at this point and it's a wwe produced program so it always paint the picture of vince was being ganged up on and they was trying to destroy him etc when in reality they just made there show better why vince stayed with his own goofy vision at the time for the company until his hand was forced and he had to follow suit with what wcw was doing it was either adapt or be left behind. But after what he did in the attitude era and he won and he was number 1 with no competition he kinda went back to the stupid cartoonish gimmicks over the years he could never get away from that fully

[@foxholiday4308]

WCW should have let DX in the building, and let meng and Booker T greet them, or at least say on air that DX was here and they are too afraid to come inside, but obviously hindsight is 20/20

[@JMDogg]

That week of WCW programming when they did nWo Monday Nitro and Starrcade 97 was the beginning of the end....they were literally sending people away to watch the competition. Raw actually beat Nitro that last hour they were head-to-head. Starrcade was rife with no-shows and matches that weren't advertised, plus that Sting-Hogan finish. WWF took advantage by throwing Mike Tyson at em and went full-bore behind Austin.

[@JM1993951]

I think we did get Flair vs The Rock. But some of the dream matches we actually did get were done on weekly tv.

[@mgawsmestevan23]

I got introduced to wrestling in 1995, because of WCW. I didn’t get into WWF until 1997, because other kids wanted to talk about ppl I didn’t know. To quote Bobby Heenan “Home to where the big boys play!” I believed it too. WCW had a structure, the Luchadores and small wrestlers made up most of the first hour and half. Where as all the Heavy Weights and giants were in the main event. Also Ric Flair vs The Rock happened. I think it was a throw away Main Event in 2002. I can’t remember if it was on Raw or Smackdown. I don’t even think it’s on WWE Network. I can’t find it, but I do remember it and I think the promo from the Rock is still online. Just not the match.

[@wereallscrewed9714]

Of course its on the network, kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGaYYmSKn5Khaqs July 2002 raw

[@nawfgotjokes7843]

That's the Mandela effect, bro. It may have happened but then again it never did happen all at the same time.

[@mgawsmestevan23]

@@nawfgotjokes7843 - I remember the match because the Rock acted like the Figure Four was the most excruciating thing ever. lol The oversell.

[@ajk]

@@mgawsmestevan23 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGaYYmSKn5Khaqs one of the videos on YT that features it, you're welcome, no Mandela Effect here.

[@mgawsmestevan23]

@@ajk THANK YOU! Thought I was losing my mind. lol

[@OGREChad]

Whether Hall and Nash were still with WWF when they first arrived at WCW was a big topic with my friends and I. We were all wrestling fans, both WWF and WCW. A few thought they were an invading force. Most thought they were just new wrestlers. One of my friends came up with the theory that the NWA was being revived and they were being managed by the NWA and the whole NWO thing was a swerve and that the Crocketts were behind it and were going to take back the WCW from TBS. We had the internet back then and were all smarks so this made tons of sense to us. I was all on board that theory. I was sure that Sting would join and reveal Jim Crockett or something.

[@karmaray4271]

About how old were you guys in 95?! I was 8, but I was aware that guys went back & forth between companies. I wasn't sure why, admittedly I wasn't a business savvy 8 yesr old who understood the economics of it. Haha. But I remember the way Hall debuted man, that's what confused my 8 year old brain. Lol. I thought he might be a lone wolf, mad at a wrestler he'd had trouble with before or something. I didn't understand that it was their job, bc at 8 I didn't realize that was a career option haha. So at first me & my old pal Joe (my Weasel Dooley) kinda thought he'd bought a ticket & came to whip a suckers ass lol. To be fair, not many 8 yesr Olds have the ability to see outside of the box lol. What you see is what you get, if you know what I'm trying to say. Lol

[@drunkensailor112]

The guy believing the nwa thing probably believes today that the earth is flat and that trump won the elections

[@OGREChad]

@@karmaray4271 We were 13-16 in 95. We all remembered Flair jumping to WWF and back to WCW, along with a bunch others.

[@layersofjade5197]

I couldn't help but chuckle at your "we had internet back then" comment. Just because of how different it was back then compared to now.

[@karmaray4271]

@@OGREChad 10-4. You were old enough to "get it"!! Wrestling was still as real as Santa Claus at that time for me. Lol. Thats kinda why I thought he came out of the crowd, like I said, to whip a suckers ass he'd had trouble with before. If we'd only realized and appreciated how good we had it as wrestling fans back then!! I don't think any of us would have ever dreamed it could get to the state it's in now!!

[@onlychild8784]

That hug at mania did more damage than wcw, nwo, hogan leaving, 85 week rating beating, cartoon era ever could. Once stone cold the f’u I’ll do what I want attitude staring hugging his main villain for three years at wrestlemania x7. The Rock, Triple h, Kurt, even the undertaker could’ve made it work but Austin was the golden goose that people did not want to hate.

[@EwanCumia]

And this is the correct answer. More than three years of hard work was flushed away in moments. Wrestling hasn't and will never be the same.

[@darkstars-torpedoes-of-truth]

Lucky CM Punk'd wasn't on the WWF roster then, Vince would have lost the war by a mile.

[@brandonjames7462]

Yes! One of the biggest revisions WWE does is gloss over the fact Shawn Michaels was not a draw. In fact when Shawn was with DX it was him and HHH just being goofballs. It was when Shawn left and HHH took over it became really cool. He added the outlaws and x-pac and thats when DX was at its best.

[@WizKiddAnt91]

You sound as foolish as Last lmao

[@kamfisher1714]

People knew Shawn more than bret especially in North America. You guys revise history.

[@brandonjames7462]

@@kamfisher1714 A few things here. Was focused on what Bryan said about Shawn. If you want to speak facts then facts are after Hogan left and the steroid trail happened the WWE/F was all around down on business. The biggest champs around that time was Shawn and Bret and Kevin had his year run at the top. None were draws but there is a difference. Kevin left and became a draw with the NWO. Brett was huge in Canada. Shawn was NEVER a draw. He became a special attraction when he returned and had a great run but was never a draw as the top guy.

[@impalaman9707]

1995 WWF--that was I called the Sesame Street--"who are the people in your neighborhood"-era🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@hiddensword9387]

nothing in the WWE was drawing in 1993-1997 harsh to blame it on HBK. At that point they were lagging behind the new, cool WCW the success of DX in 98 coincides with the Attitude era really taking off so Brian is just being facetious.

[@SpaceGhost92]

They have to try and bury hbk at all times. They sure don’t blame Bret Harts terrible business as champ during the same time frame. And trying to downplay Shawn’s involvement in DX is just idiotic, without him DX never has the chance to get off the ground. I think he was just as important as Austin was in increasing the ratings in 97

[@andrewarmstrong7254]

Meng versus DX with a tank...got Tonga in that one.

[@DolFunDolhpinVtuber]

I was a big fan of NBA Jam back then so I was really into the basketball players going to WCW.

[@garyhen2028]

I played NBA jam on the SNES! You could shatter the backboard, then it would come back

[@guitarmann6880]

BOOOM SHAKA LAKA!!!!!!!!

[@lukesablade]

I know 96-01 is peak attitude era, and probably the greatest period in wrestling, but I'm still a big fan of 01-06...that 10 year period is peak wrestling to me.

[@NoPe-304]

01-06 is five years sir more less ruthless aggression

[@lukesablade]

@@NoPe-304 96-06 is 10 years.

[@catchcan221]

In no way, shape or form is 1996 the Attitude Era. Attitude Era started when Monday Night Raw became Raw is War. That was 1997.

[@dougmasters4561]

​@catchcan221 def 1996. That it started in 97 is just WWF marketting but if you watch Raw from 93 then forward the tone changes drastically in 96

[@robintst]

I've reminded people regularly of the fact that we've never recovered from the level of hotshotting everyone was indulging in during the Attitude Era and we probably never will. The business is in this weird state now of there being more wrestling than ever out there available for viewing from TV to internet to a glut of indie promotions of all sizes all over the world... but there's less fans than ever to sell it to. Can probably blame some of that on what society has become, the greater casual viewing audience that used to watch back then is now composed of dimwits who think fighting for real to resolve a conflict is beneath them so how could they ever get invested in a worked fight trying to look real that relies on their willingness to display emotional investment and suspend their disbelief?

[@matthewmagda4971]

WWE marks love everything that's happened since the monopoly era. You're reminding them in vain. Also, people love commoditized outrage.

[@jamesmiller5331]

Kids are still able to suspend their disbelief. Adults cannot do it as well and yet there are probably more of them watching than there are kids. This makes for a weird dynamic as well.

[@UFCWWE69]

The attitude era at this point is nearly 30 years old I don’t think a majority of fans these days were even born yet

[@Ackshuallymmm]

WWE doesn’t want new stars, that’s why their ratings are down. Remember how much and how long they pushed Cena? They strapped a rocket to that guy for a decade straight! WWE was still doing decent PPV buys in the late 2000s..your whole theory falls apart.

[@Rockhound6165]

Wrestling for me stopped when it stopped being fun. The attitude era was fun. Now, it's boring and all the same.

[@secularbelt]

Talk about revisionist history, there was no tank. DX Had a Jeep

[@lancewalton8705]

Man, if Meng had come out there there would have been no Kliq left.

[@sonofsarek]

Could you imagine the image of the gate rising and there stands Meng. Then he starts walking up the ramp to meet the DX jeep.

[@paulgolden8811]

Meng vs. DX would've been EPIC

[@seventyseven7815]

One of the biggest points of the popularity of wrestling at that time was that wrestling was a college past time. Spring break was a gold mine for both WCW and WWE. For some reason college kids loved wrestling and that is what made it so big. And after that faded as a fad it was over.

[@mc12358]

I was a teenager during the peak of Attitude era, I have a vivid memory of attending Sunday School at a Baptist church and one of the other guys in the youth group actually played a tape of the St. Valentines Day Massacre PPV one Sunday morning. That's how deep pro wrestling had gotten into the mainstream culture. Come to church to praise Jesus and instead end up watching Austin flipping birds and whipping McMahon from pillar to post. It was a great run and I hated to watch the flames die out. I doubt wrestling will ever regain that level of mainstream acceptance in our (fans that grew up in the 1990s) lifetimes.

[@ohiopigeon]

Exactly Jim, this is why it needs to be said that the "Attitude" era was the beginning of the end of the whole business

[@johnwright9049]

WWF versus WCW was the best episode of rivals so far despite having some content cut.

[@Aaronjosephhernandez]

Rock vs Stone Cold (2nd) Undertaker vs Kane (3rd)

[@madddoggnogood1491]

1. Bret vs hbk 2. Rock vs Austin 3. Wcw vs wwe

[@johnwright9049]

@@Aaronjosephhernandez I agree

[@Aaronjosephhernandez]

@@johnwright9049 Forgot Bret vs Michaels thats up there though. Montreal Screwjob really put that rivalry over anybody

[@johnwright9049]

@@Aaronjosephhernandez It did and the best matches of their careers were against each other.

[@marvinalexander6796]

Thought it was interesting they didn't mention that WWF did survivor series same night as Starrcade

[@DECEPTICONUK]

Spinning wrestling rings was my first memory of wcw. It wasn't until Hall and Nash got there that I watched it weekly. I loved both companies but wwf always seemed more professional. (Except picking Shawn over Bret, BIG fking mistake. BH 4 life)

[@mc12358]

WWF seemed to always have the best TV production, even when the product wasn't as great. WWF had a more cinematic look, better graphics, entrance music, etc. especially during the Attitude era, opposed to WCW looking more like a traditional sports broadcast (at least to my eyes, and it helped that they were under the same umbrella as the Braves and the NBA). I liked WCW and WWF, but when RAW is War started winning big in the ratings, I could already tell WCW's time would be up soon.

[@youtuberabbithole6002]

It's crazy to think people could suspend belief long enough to think Steve Austin could surive more than 30 seconds in a fight with Mike Tyson. The attitude era was fun lol

[@averyl6372]

Haku wudda flipped that tank with everyone in it

[@FilmThePoliceFTP]

They were in Norfolk WWF was in hampton. I was at raw that night it was awesome. Iirc that’s the raw where Owen joined the nation.

[@Joe70445]

I was surprised that there was no mention of Rick Rude showing up on WCW and WWE tv on the same night, which Rick Rude buried WWE. I remember that this was a big deal when it happened.

[@doctorwewe9436]

And ecw

[@robertreams1231]

I always thought that was a little overrated because the the Raw episode had been taped a week in advance to airing so it wasn’t like it was truly the same night. Just aired o. The same night. I also believe he was also on ECW that same week.

[@doctorwewe9436]

@@robertreams1231 no shit mr pp

[@NicTubeVids]

Probably because WWE is involved in making these and that is something that makes them look bad that they could skip over due to time constraints.

[@makaveli4205]

That gun angle with stone cold and Brian Pillman was epic

[@vetdad1807]

That narrative about the Monday Night Wars always confused me. Not I, nor a single wrestling fan I knew, ever believed Hall & Nash were actually working for WWF and showing up on WCW tv. We all knew they had jumped ship. No one BELIEVED the nWo was ACTUALLY at war with WCW.

[@garyfeuer1071]

Sorry Jim, no one actually thought razor and diesel were working for WWF at the time

[@DavidBarton777]

Some did at the time because there wasn't all the social media back then and kayfabe was still a thing

[@originalhuggies9740]

Hulk and Savage might have went to WCW but WWF ended up with Austin and HHH coming from WCW. I'd say that worked out better for McMahon in the long run.

[@travismiller4320]

It was like the closest to a “trade”between WCW and WWF, main event for mid card

[@vinceraven1501]

When Hall & Nash popped up in WCW, I honestly didn't automatically think the old F was invading WCW. I was excited to see fresher top stars from another company in WCW to change things up a bit.

[@bobbywhitaker3439]

It was kinda weird knowing but not knowing/caring that WCW was the "2nd" best promotion, speaking as a person born in 85, growing up in between Greensboro and Asheboro NC; WWF wasn't on our television until we had cable and Raw started...WCW and spot shows were wrestling...most kids or others I imagine just read about the northern stuff in magazines...the invasion happened at the perfect time id contend, as you had a large youthful audience that ate up the collision of the universes

[@madddoggnogood1491]

Exactly. I grew up in Mississippi. Superstars was in syndication and you never knew when it was coming on But i always knew when wcw Saturday night and wcw main event came on

[@bobbywhitaker3439]

@@madddoggnogood1491 yeah I think it came on early Saturday mornings...don't recall the channel but probably abc or fox?

[@jacobpitsenbarger4763]

Booker T and DDP weren't enough to have made the invasion work. They were great workers and characters but they're not Sting or Goldberg. They were basically the lower level main eventers of WCW. And Vince did DDP so bad that he didn't recover. And we all know how Booker fared in his best opportunity to win a championship against HHH.

[@sjfrenz93]

I'm here to tell you, Russo went to WCW to destroy it. Because WCW got so bad when he showed up there, there's no way it was on accident.

[@xoynialedmcesoentill6034]

He was paid handsomely. He doesn't need a job in wrestling anymore.

[@DiamondKingsMusic]

The Stone Cold character is the most important during that time period. Easily. The pop he would get for promos, matches, entrances, backstage heat, it was all electric.

[@davidpollock4228]

Vince and the wwe are trying to rewrite history.

[@Sky_Blaze]

Always have tried

[@troysmith5749]

the main event of wrestlemania next year will be an intergender tag match vince mcmahon and kevin dunn (in a dress) vs two random female wrestlers who will be called the paralegal express

[@darreng745]

Vince has been doing that ever since he bought the then Capitol Sports from his father and his father's partners, he wants to disguise his past as a failed boxing promoter, failed body building event promoter, failed seller of food suppliments and of course the XFL. Anyone who has ever crossed Vince to the point where even he would not bring that back to make money has been written out of the WWE Universe and the reason for all of this is simple. Vince does not want to be seen as a "Wrasslin' promoter" his view of what the business should be led to Sports Entertainment and also the admission on the real nature of the business to avoid paying that ticket tax on sporting events in New Jersey. There is also the little matter of the fact that by admitting it was fake the State Athletic Commissions no longer had any power to regulate or interfere with the events.

[@troysmith5749]

@@darreng745 are you the undertaker?

[@kamfisher1714]

@@Sky_Blaze Show me examples I’ll wait

[@firepenguin38]

The lack of Internet and dirt sheets are the time made this completely awesome. You didn't know week to week. Now nothing is a true surprise anymore. Everything is known or heavily speculated ahead of time and it's a damn shame

[@garymurden6146]

I am with Brian, in the UK, people thought it was former WWF/WCW guys, not WWF taking over. I can well believe that one or two old time promoters might have thought they might be building towards a superclash style event, but in every era of wrestling the fans were always smarter than the promoters thought.

[@MBM1117727]

Yeah those kind of interpromotional supercards were very common in the 70s and even the 80s but by the time the Big 2 were all that was left there was no chance of that.

[@finbarobruadair2761]

Did they mention Vinny Ru on the documentary?

[@tomlennox5555]

Do you ever notice how hypocritical Brian is when it comes to Chris Benoit? He says things like "f*ck that guy" - because of course Brian is a big tough guy - even though any sensible person would realize the horrible incidents happened as a result of brain damage. Brian is then the first person to demand the proper usage of pronouns, demand kneeling in relation to perceived injustices, and call for more insurance payments for mental health treatments. Well, Brian, which on is it?

[@broadcastmyballs]

Brian Last is absolutely spot-on with the take that DX didn't get over until Sean Waltman showed up People were sick of Shawn Michaels. When X-Pac showed up and started spamming crotch chops kids loved it and it became something that got a million kids sent to detention by their teachers. At that time the New Age Outlaws (really just Road Dogg) were getting the crowd hype as hell when DX entered. X-Pac and Road Dogg were the real reasons for DX's success.

[@therealCamoron]

Is this a troll?

[@kvsimagination7299]

Even before I was "smartened up to the business", Hall (and later Nash) showing up sans Razor Ramon gear was interesting, but I doubted they were still with WWF. I had seen Flair, Luger, and the Steiner's, etc, switch both companies both ways, plus I new that Hall and Nash had been the Diamond Stud and Vinnie Vegas in WCW previously. So, no, I never thought WWF was invading any more that I fell for the DX showing up outside a WCW event with a tank (weren't they in two different cities?).

[@kob456]

If you were a little kid at the time, you believed Hall & Nash was sent by WWE, especially with the way they were cutting promos. Hall saying "You want a war, you got one." Even as a kid, prior to Hall showing up, I was aware of Bischoff spoiling RAW on air. I was also aware of the Billionaire Ted skits. It looked like WWF finally had enough and just sent their guys to WCW to start trouble.

[@sledgehammer9739]

The best part is when Jim starts cutting a promo on the sponsor. Then hearing Brian trying to shut Jim up for fear of losing the sponsor or getting sued.

[@scottdecowski4913]

I still remember as a kid watching the segment where Nash & Hall powerbombed Bischoff, when Bischoff asked both Hall & Nash before that if they were associated with the WWF & they said no, I thought why give that away??? Didn't find out for years later about the lawsuit

[@troysmith5749]

it would have been awesome if they said "hogan is the third man" and both of them were dressed like hogan

[@BWalker9313]

They did a much better job with this story on the Monday night wars series they had on the WWE network. That was a way better show, I know they crammed in a lot but I'm sure for the general audience they could remember the key points of what happened back then

[@brianlafev4261]

The Monday Night War series was great! But yeh that was like 20 episodes and they were an hour long each. It was a strange topic for A&E to try cram into 1 episode

[@Sky_Blaze]

Reliving the wars by Wrestling Bios on YT is better than this A&E crap

[@FBA_God_Emperor_Doom]

@@Sky_Blaze best show on KZbin!

[@WyattHolliday]

I’m so sick of hearing these people on these shows say, “Everyone thought WWE was invading WCW!” No, they sure as fk didn’t. No one thought that. We just thought it was one of the coolest angles we’d ever seen. Even at 10 years old, I understood trespassing laws. Brian is right in his assessment.

[@chrisbelos2834]

Sure... that's probably why WWF sued WCW for the angle. just rewrite history for your benefit.

[@WyattHolliday]

@@chrisbelos2834 No, they sued because WCW was acting like they were. No one watching thought that. But then again, I’m not a moron who thinks wrestling angles are real life and that a court of law wouldn’t apply inside a wrestling ring.

[@WyattHolliday]

“Ahhh! These guys keep showing up week to week on our show and beating up our guys, but we can’t stop them! If only someone had invented something called the police in 1996!” You’d have to be an idiot.

[@30xron]

Actually we did eventually get Rock vs Flair on Raw....it just wasn't any good!

[@charlesfoster9530]

Man, the ear bud ad is the fuckin greatest thing I've ever heard. I want Corny to do the ads for my business.

[@williamwest9204]

The last 15 years under Vince was some of the worst shit by just decisions alone

[@danielburger1775]

20 years

[@JoeMercersWay]

so disappointed that Brian didn't pop for the "and some of them weren't even from Uncle Dave" line.

[@michaelparrish6093]

I agree with Brian. I thought it was twoi former guys showing up to cause trouble. Also, at eight years old, I was shocked to learn that Razor Ramon's real name was "Scott" and he was not, in fact, Cuban.

[@garyhen2028]

I like these, 20-40 minute clips, then I go back and watch the drive thru and experience

[@ajk]

you mean listen to lol

[@FreeThinkAlways]

Why do people even bother watching these silly wwe produced documentaries? They're always so staged and directed in such a way that makes them look great whilst ignoring many of their own faults, facts and missed opportunities

[@randommay9219]

I used to actually think they had to have other jobs because they didn't make enough wrestling So you had a garbage man An accountant IRS (D-Lo Brown really was a CPA🤣) A clown A Bunch of body builders A teacher What I was like 4-6 years old

[@JuliusC1973]

That's always been my gripe, we never got The WWF vs. WCW Dream Matches we were hoping for? And then when Vince bought ECW, we could have had ECW vs. WCW, WWF vs. ECW and WWF vs. WCW. The Invasion Story line was not as satisfying as it could have been. The WWF could have booked several years worth of Dream Matches that could have carried the Company through The 2000's and beyond.

[@robertreams1231]

True, but it wasn’t WWF’s fault. They didn’t own the contracts to the WCW guys who had contracts with Turner, not WCW.

[@chrischar9428]

@@robertreams1231 he ruined it with it being the McMahon family war

[@PatFussy069]

Austin shaking Vince's hand was so symbolic. Kayfabe it is was what it is was, but to me, it was one of those real life things brought into kayfabe. One month after buying WCW, & then having WCW wrestlers present at Wrestlemania, & those two shaking hands in the ring is them just like "We did it." Like something at the end of movie where they overcame the odds. I do suppose those it's a matter of perception of who the protagonists & antagonists were. Also we have to step into Vince's shoes here & understand that yeah for him it is personal, it's his life business, his family business, & all his money is invested in it, he will fight for his life. You have to respect that.

[@underwearskids1]

Can you guys please do a podcast show, where you just hock merch?

[@newhere2419]

omg they should call Last Brian Lost. starts in again that D-Generation X wasn't over and fans wanted Shawn to leave. where did they get this guy

[@newhere2419]

@@Kalbuir66 You do realize the original version were heels and the second became babyfaces right?

[@pmfg11]

Cornette really exposes himself when he's talking about this time period lmao

[@kd17Burger]

Exposes himself in what way?

[@pmfg11]

@@kd17Burger as a clueless agenda driven mark

[@KAR5AVATARGT]

@@pmfg11 how when he was there

[@pmfg11]

@@KAR5AVATARGT he was there but his agenda is hilarious considering he was the guy writing when they were hard stuck into the 2s and when he left the ratings reached the 8s.

[@cjskylark6659]

@@pmfg11that was all bruce and Vince ideas when they were getting those ratings

[@marcelmoreau2733]

was it a tank i seem to recal a jeep with a mounted machiine gun but was there an actual tank?

[@jcc3333]

Was a jeep

[@marcelmoreau2733]

@@jcc3333 1 think they used a real but decommissioned tank a few years after the famous moment, but the a tual time it was the jeep with the mounted gun.

[@jakeinator722]

Another day, another documentary on the Monday Night Wars and that's more sad than good to be honest because it's always their go-to to be braggadocious about, but they can't make another peak era like this ever again.

[@Howyanow]

For the first time in years I have faith in the creative department, might not get attitude era levels but I could see triple h at least getting 2-3 millions viewers watching raw every week and maybe 2 on smackdown

[@metallicbigtoe3949]

Is has to happen organically, the attitude era was totally organic initially

[@decepticonxhunter4850]

Nobody can possibly manufacture an era like that if they tried. It only happened because the 2 companies were owned by 2 wealthy, competitive individuals who wanted bragging rights at virtually any cost. No rational person should expect lightning to be captured in a bottle for a 2nd time.

[@davyjones2032]

Show is called Biography lol. People like nostalgia and it's easy topic for views since the majority of wrestling fans are 35+. It's no different than 80s and 90s NBA, NFL docs. Only difference is with other sports old heads debate their era better players vs new school fans say their era better players. Sadly wrestling fans online hate wrestling. So it's just a bunch of people chasing the high that once was and unwilling to totally move on. The OP comment is literally pretending someone is bragging just to say how good wrestling used to be and sucks now.

[@cjskylark6659]

@@metallicbigtoe3949 it's never gonna happen Again There is now more stars in wrestling anymore

[@nonamerequired123]

Curious thing about Russo's departure: 1 I wasn't surprised he did, he foreshadowed it in 96 when he wrote(as Vic Venom) an article in Raw magazine talking about Nash's departure, saying that everyone including him should consider jumping to WCW. Except Nash because of Oz and Vinnie Vegas 2 he's always said the reason why he left was because of the ":hire a nanny" comment, but he said in an interview with World Wrestling Insanity in 05 he left because he read Vince's interview with Cigar Aficionado magazine where he credited Shane for the WWF's creative direction. 3 How much impact did he really have? More to the point, how many people even knew who he was? And how many actually tuned in because he wrote it? When I heard he ran to WCW, my thought was "Why did they hire the magazine editor?" Had no idea he was writing. So how much would the casual fans(the ones he claims to want to get) would even know who he was? Ironically, it was the "smart marks" he derides that really knew who he was.

[@danielburger1775]

Not "because he wrote it". But even fans who knew nothing about "bookers" could tell the show suddenly got a lot worse for some reason(after he left).

[@danielburger1775]

@Bischoff Rulz RAW in 2000 was 💩 It was just "six-man matches", "ladder matches", 25 minute promos. The only reason it did good ratings(for a while) was because it was riding the wave of momentum. Nitro 2000 wasn't great. But at least they were trying something, even if it didn't always work. RAW 2000 was just cookie cutter crap.

[@danielburger1775]

@Bischoff Rulz RAW 2000 didn't hold up THEN. That's why the ratings started dropping slowly, then went into freefall.

[@danielburger1775]

@Bischoff Rulz Slight drop? Slight?🤣 And Nitro 2000 had multiple "creative teams". They changed the creative every couple of months. If you honestly think 2000 RAW was great, I'm sure you love the current AEW product too.

[@maxgriffin3950]

@@danielburger1775 the triple h vs rock feud in 2000 was fucking stale

[@scrappy93]

Lol Vince wasn't even with Turner at the time. He is now networth wise.

[@violagreene4643]

What I don't understand about the Time-Warner contract thing is if the wrestlers were still under contract to TW, why couldn't TW require them to work WWF programming in return for a portion of ticket sales and PPV buys from Vince? They may or may not have made back all the money they were paying for those wrestlers but something is better than nothing.

[@mikemck4796]

My friends didn’t think wwf sent them, but what WCW did well early in the invasion was mystery. There was a constant tease of who’s joining and who’s getting attacked next. And that meant any wrestlers on any roster. Wrestling has done a terrible job of “mystery” for the last decade.

[@brycemcneil4404]

I think wrestling came to overrely on mystery, honestly.

[@mikemck4796]

@@brycemcneil4404 during the attitude era, I can maybe see that argument being made. But nowadays, there is very little. Where it does exist, it’s done by announcers and not the wrestlers.

[@DamianGshow]

Brian saying WHAT? During the Raycon read lmaooo and him saying no! Bwahaha

[@mgk2020]

I was a kid at the time and I never thought the invasion was WWE sending wrestlers over to WCW. I, like Brian said, thought it was just former WWE stars coming over and raising hell.

[@titansrule72]

am i the only one here who liked wcw prior to hulk joining? I loved wcw saturday night and main event on tbs.

[@travisheckel3788]

If you grew up with territory wrestling, you liked wcw more than WWF

[@titansrule72]

@@travisheckel3788 love your artwork! Brings cornys show to another level

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

Wish they'd put all the WCW stuff on Tha Cawk.

[@travisheckel3788]

@@titansrule72 thank you Tony

[@kevinpayton2664]

I did, even during the Crockett era. I watched Saturday Night, Worldwide, Pro, and Main Event. Great wrestling

[@ajjjay9583]

The closest we got to ric flair vs rock was at that wrestlemania were evolution vs mic foley and rock

[@josegonzalez-zn8zc]

Jim is really good at commercials, He works them in there pretty naturally

[@stuartrandall2584]

I dunno about the podcast but I'm interested in the ear buds.....

[@matrixrevolution2600]

10:19 When Hogan joined The NWO that's when I knew at the time This NWO thing was going to fail. In the end Hogan didn't disappoint, he destroyed all!

[@Noobie2k7]

"Raycon have over 50,000 5 star reviews and some of them don't even come from uncle Dave". . Such an underrated joke.

[@MilMaska]

"This is when the vanilla midgets ran to New York and I said. I just saved WCW, 2.5 million dollars" - Mike Graham

[@Bale4Bond]

You have these on standby?

[@Cruising_On_Lake_Havasoma]

Yeah, how'd that work out for ya, Mike?

[@spanky9676]

180 pound Mike graham calling people midgets 😆

[@alphatoddio]

Broke a thousand guitars...never drew a dime lol 🤣😅

[@Rjensen2]

Yeah, and he never mentioned that the ratings went up quite a bit when they debuted, and a few weeks after. But that wouldn't help his "Vanilla Midgets" comment. And of course, the only time Graham ever worked on top, it was either for his dad or when Dusty opened Florida back up. And he didn't draw a dime. He would work in the AWA occasionally and come out to almost zero response. In WCW if he was in the ring he was doing jobs.

[@bikecaptain8015]

People talk about, "You know so-and-so is entertaining because you look forward to the ad read." Ryan George as The Adstronaut springs immediately to mind. For me, no one's bizarre ad reads are a more enticing part of the product than Mr. Cornette's.

[@jia1596]

Bret Hart should have been highlighted more. He put Austin over, he had the thing with Michaels and the fallout with the screw job helped create that McMahon character Austin would feud with which helped him out as well.

[@Rockhound6165]

WCW couldn't have shit on Bret Hart any more if they anchored him to a toilet during a chili cookoff.