Offset Rifle RDS- 12 O'clock vs Canted.

[@bass779]

Uploading these videos to KZbin keeps your profile high and publicly demonstrates not just your status as a Subject Matter Expert, but also as a critical thinker. This kind of content is such great advertising for your classes and even for institutional customers. Hate to see you leave KZbin

[@musicman1eanda]

Yeah I'm not fully understanding his move to Patreon, but he must have run the numbers and thought it would be worth it financially.

[@mdbm777]

Unless something changed he pretty clearly said he's not leaving KZbin. Most of the postings will just be behind a paywall, but there will still be free KZbin ones

[@lancedonati]

Genuinely bummed

[@soulstodeny05]

Editing alone for these videos is probably super time consuming. I understand the choice.

[@Stoney_AKA_James]

Agreed!👍

[@michaelsavarin5620]

I love your content and what it brings to the community. Your delivery and professionalism will be sorely missed on this platform.

[@tylerb556]

@@ohhhspanky what?

[@mattpage4260]

12:00 is also handy for high magnification. If you are at 20x looking for a target …you use the dot to get you close to on target, then transition to the magnified optic.

[@frankhujsa821]

This is also done with a 45 degree offset optic.

[@sumblakdude9]

Yea you can do it just 12 o’clock is better for that application. Not even close lol

[@StefanSu91]

@@frankhujsa821 No. you have to move your rifle. With it at 12 with a 20x optic you are probably prone and with a bipod.

[@gunsandcommissions]

How is it better than just looking over the top of the scope? The dot isn't going to be slaved to the reticle on a 20x scope.

[@Debellaturus]

@@frankhujsa821 if you’re running a bipod though it might be a bit easier to transition from a 12 o clock mount, otherwise yeah I fully agree it’s no different with either

[@doctordaveairborne5476]

Aaron you are one of the most articulate and cerebral firearms instructors I have heard in my military, law enforcement and civilian experience; thanks for putting out great content!

[@blue.cord.actual8698]

Shot both set ups a lot. I prefer the 12:00 o’clock. Here’s why. I train shooting from both my right and left sides. The problem with 45 degree off set IMO is, if you have to transition the weapon to the opposite side to shot around cover the red dot becomes absolutely useless. I agree with this man……it comes down to set up and most importantly……training/practicing. Awesome video. Thank you, Sir.

[@mathiasbarot2243]

You can still shoot with lpvo at x1. If you have to shoot with the opposite side, you have time to adjust the LPVO in x1, right ? I am not criticizing your experience and your opinion (on the contrary, I appreciate the numerous opinions of my American brothers !), I am just trying to know; I'm in the process of switching my AR15 from a red dot to an LPVO, so I'm trying to find the configuration that will suit me best. And here in France, it's really not easy to have differents rifles to test/try !

[@molonlabe8126]

What a nice video ! Thanks a lot, I've wanted to go for a prism with a backup RDS on top but your insight with head placement has really opened my eyes with the cons it will bring.

[@jaredking1147]

Aaron you mind reader. I've been debating this exact topic for the past few days. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Will definitely take this into consideration.

[@donovanhilljr6241]

I’ve become so much more selective when building this last rife and I have taken a lot of what you would say into account and this is literally the last thing I am looking at doing. Buis or back up rds and how I need it set up.

[@diamondheat9]

Great video and in great timing. I recently invested in the Badger Ordnance 1.70 family and a new LPVO. I decided on a 35° side offset RDS.

[@KonaLife]

This video is perfect timing for me. I've been looking into both options as an optic solution, in addition to the Primary Arms SLx 5x36mm Gen III already mounted on my AR. Thanks for the vid!

[@donnyreynoso6465]

NGL i really like the way Aaron articulates, appreciate you n the channel sir

[@DanielBoone337]

I'm definitely in the offset dot camp it's just so much more natural for me so thats what I do. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!

[@vigormindset]

I know you are moving most of your content to Patreon, but it made my New Year’s day to see this video pop up in my feed. Timely too, since I’ve been considering an offset backup dot. Thank you kindly sir, always appreciate your content. And happy new year to you and yours...

[@danielsullivan7740]

I swear to god. I’ve been trying to figure out what is better offset or piggyback at 12 o’clock and I was hoping for a video to come out. I was literally just thinking about this earlier this morning.

[@oo-ru5lt]

One overlooked point is if you regularly switch scopes, an offset red dot with a separate mount can just stay on the rifle.

[@markmccardia9282]

I appreciate how you explain things. Im in process of mounting up a 35 degree offset and cant wait to get some training time in.. At first I was thinking "snag" issues and such, but I think the advantage of adding some protection to the that side of the lpvo out weighs the cons

[@textme953]

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[@normwilson117]

“weaponized geometry”..its been that way for me since middle school. truly appreciate your thoughts and perspective.

[@sanjayjha9255]

Aaron, excellent discussion as I am in complete agreement with everyone that a secondary sighting system is critical. On every platform which contains a red dot, I have backup iron sights which will co-witness, no issues. On each of my platforms which utilize an LPVO, I have 45 deg fixed iron sights. At the time it was the fastest, transitioning from LPVO to secondary sights. My only decision was based off of watching and listening to Barry Duecke who inspired the Surefire RTS sights. Anything for competition he used the angled iron sights first, then went to LPVO. The RTS sights are not cheap and with current prices on a red dot with mount, the latter may be the way to go. However, when shooting from the ground thru a barricade or opening, there may not be clearance to use a red dot to achieve a correct sight picture, let alone with an LPVO. Being a short guy, I am guaranteed to get closer to the ground and achieve a sight picture with the 45 deg iron sights. Whatever one decides, confirm the usability under all conditions: i.e. prone, barricade, thru barricade, under lowered vehicle such as kit car as opposed to full size truck. Thank you again.

[@11superstar1997]

45° is definitely the move for GPR's and battle rifles. The only exception, with much debate of course is the piggybacking red dot on an ACOG. Outside of that, an LPVO or regular power scope with 12 o'clock red dot is great for special purpose rifles such as a DMR, or heavier guns that are not designed to be as maneuverable, but instead stationary. The 12 o'clock dot on a SPR/DMR is useful for quick sight acquisition at distance and unexpected combat engagements between locations. It is simply a tool to bail you out under certain conditions to give you a better chance at survivability. If you're not going to be running and gunning or on the front lines, 12 o'clock is a great option if you can get used to it. 45° is perfect for quickness and effectiveness under stress, as well as shooting from unconventional positions

[@johnm5131]

I like the 12 o'clock for house clearing. It reminds me of a tall-mount Aimpoint T-1/T-2. I rarely have a cheek weld when opening doors, so the transition to sighting is more natural to me. You can pretty much see your dot in the low-ready, so as they say, "you're there"

[@30wrdy]

Good luck in your future endeavors brother. Your insights will be missed here

[@sparda1123]

Had to pause the video to comment on the "Reset type situation" mega BASED.

[@axemurdereriamnot]

Have you considered using 12o'clock mount, and rolling the rifle 45° to place the MRDS in front of the NON-dominant eye? This preserves the cheekweld from the magnified optic. This is one of the strengths of shooting RDS sights with both eyes open.

[@SageDynamics]

It might for some, but they would be in a minority. There’s also parallax to consider and the processing delay from dominant to non-dominant.

[@calholli]

I've heard that running top mount is better for passive NOD's.. and that's probably right, but the canted is by far the better position for anything without NOD's. I even have a few rifles rigged with canted irons, and even they work great and are quick to transition to. (edit: of coarse you mention that in the video, I should have just waited. lol)

[@orion45acp]

Appreciate the review. This is a topic I was interested in learning more about. Thank you.

[@TLhike]

Always learn something from this channel awesomeness!

[@StefanSu91]

I'll be PC and say it is probably subjective. With that out of the way, I find the canted way to be ridiculous. The argument that with 12 you have to change your cheek weld, but then, they have to readjust their "butt weld", which imo is WAY worse. The time it takes me to readjust my cheek weld is probably half of the stock. Just unnecessary and ugly and it gets in the way of my shirt and/or body armor. Second, at close distance where you'd be using your dot, chances are having a stable rifle "weld" is more important than your cheek weld. At really close distance in CQB you won't even be looking through anything but where you're pointing at. And last rant, if you need a high mounted magnified optic then chances are you are being redundant. If you don't shoot prone very much you probably don't shoot far if ever. At that point just leave it on 1x. Canted is a fad.

[@texasranger24]

One valid consideration is to use your 12 o'clock piggypack red dot as a canted sight as well, just with your other eye. It certainly takes some time to get used to, and to reliably find the dot, but it's a great option if you want the extreme height for night vision, but no chinweld at daytime.

[@swiftaudi]

Right I agree. But you have to know point of aim if you angle it like this.

[@texasranger24]

@@swiftaudi well, you just turned giraffe optic tower into canted, cross-eyed giraffe optic. So you better figure out how to use it.

[@Avoicecyringinthesuburbs]

Just mounted an red dot on an acog and almost went to the 45 degree off set which is quick, but I hate things hanging off my gun like that, so I experimented with using it canted with my other eye and I find it just as fast and much better than raising my head which I found much harder to find the dot and did not feel right.

[@JimmyJones206]

That’s why you have dynamics in your name because you explain the dynamics to the solutions of the problems

[@textme953]

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[@nickst-jean9023]

Hell yeah thanks for putting this out man! I was grilling you about this a few weeks back on insta haha

[@elijahanderson6736]

I run a dot on my acog. Its definitely something to get use too. It’s my primary rifle with my MAWL for NV. I can run the acog up close pretty fast too. Prone and dot is doable. I can’t shoot 2-300 yards with it but it’s not my primary choice. Offset is super fast and recoil control is better.

[@BMAN2686]

Have you tried just rolling your rifle, like with a 45 offset? I do that with my ACOG and piggy back RDS, it puts the red dot perfectly in line with my left eye. You can use it for snapping between RDS and magnified just like the 45 offset. Bonus is when shooting in unconventional positions, you still have the benefit of both sight being in line.

[@nikos6220]

The stabilization problem with the cheek weld on the 12 o’clock would be even more pronounced on a more powerful cartridge like a 7.62x51 due to recoil and weight of the system

[@swarbrickjesse]

I like the Top mount dot bc it allows me to still roll the rifle, but into my dominant (left) eye. I seem to be able to keep a decent cheek weld as well.

[@noneyabidness196]

This video is coming out right on time for me. I am doing a 3x acog with a acro on a 45 degree offset.

[@textme953]

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[@gatlinggunlover]

I just recently piggybacked an acro on my acog.

[@Element_punk]

12 O' clock is great for long range high magnification guns, it allows you to not need to dial down to change targets.

[@aidenlee364]

Last video and exactly the one I needed

[@textme953]

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[@whiskeyonetwoactual1116]

Great run down

[@whiskeyonetwoactual1116]

Another awesome video

[@at3619]

Aaron I wish you a happy send off from KZbin. I've gained a lot of knowledge from your training and reviews over the years. On a side note, if you are creating videos for Patreon, why wouldn't you just post them on KZbin and see what happens??? Good luck in your ventures Sir.

[@user-ij9sh1tf9d]

Another point to add to this topic; it is very firearm-dependent. For example, using a canted RDS setup on an AK is usually a no-go because the shooter will hit their hand on the optic and/or its mount when pulling the bolt carrier back.

[@Highway9mm]

God speed Sage Dynamics! I will sub to your patreon when I get a real job.

[@T20-c8f]

Ahahaha

[@bryanduchane2371]

They should have been a priority well before he decided to take his content private, if you were to ask me. I will never understand how someone survives without me a steady form of enough income from a job..... Please do tell us how your doing it!!!

[@Highway9mm]

You make a good point but such is life. Had a long career in an industry I hate. Then became a dad, priorities changed to availability over salary. Plus covid, company moved outta state and so on. Long story short, I’m blessed with a sugar mama that puts up with my shit.

[@Sheppard2030]

Thank you for this valuable information.

[@ArizonaAstraLLC]

Excellent video, I am myself one that prefers a 35° offset (offset optics in general since 2019, started with 45°, but I see the reasoning behind both. I think having a top mounted/piggyback or whatever mount, like an RMR on a VCOG or ACOG, makes sense if the weapon is going to be kind of mass-issued, like in the Marines. And specifically, this has to do with the fact that it's much easier for the armorers to bolt on a bunch of RMRs on top of 30,000 infantry rifles' main optics, and zero them, as opposed to 1) buying a shit ton of offset mounts from Arisaka or T.Rex Arms (very likely exceeds their manufacturing capacity in a realistic time frame), 2) now you have two things to mount, being the optic to the mount, and the mounted optic to the rifle, and 3) zeroing it. Offset optics are not fun to zero, but having a simple piggyback optic takes all the headache out of it other than determining what distance you're going to mark for your zero.

[@thomaszhang3101]

Sage, offset red dot and LPVO vs Red dot and magnifier, which is better for which situation? Which is better for a 10.5 inch build?

[@brandongough4766]

Excellent analysis, my thoughts are the same.

[@robertfoote3255]

Love that UTube is pushing out older Sage Dynamics videos....let's me re like the ones they have throttled and recycle this his Outstanding content to the masses.

[@andreasr6632]

Another advantageous aspect of a secondary RDS at 12 is that it can be used for passive aiming with NV.

[@alfredjr2k556]

Happy New Year, Dynamics!

[@leeross3950]

Showing your age with the "Toys-R-Us " kids reference. Keep up the great content. Always look forward to your uploads to include the annual bourbon reviews.

[@textme953]

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[@chiefro7]

“Reset type situation” such an eloquent savage

[@vernonasian]

When this man speaks, listen

[@kalrodwick]

I run a canted back-up on my recce rifle. More so that its off the same line as my primary optic. I can do a quick roll of the gun to pick it up works for me.

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

Another way to look at it: Your red dot can either be married to an optic or to a weapon. 12 o'clock vs. offset. This is a consideration if you do a lot of swapping optics. How important? I don't know, but it's there.

[@WearilyMistaken]

There are mounts that have a dedicated 45 offset. Might be more spendy though.

[@MotoJB]

Well done video...astute input. Agreed overall. 45 offsets on all my LVPO setups. Easier and faster for me.

[@emtothedee]

You remind me of every gun store employee

[@textme953]

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[@_Delta_P_]

I think you show multiple ways of doing things and you just go with what everyone each wants to do. I actually run 3 sights. I have my 5x prism with my piggy back rds. But I also have backup canted sights that I can also use as a primary canted option. Our modern kit is fantastic for not only backups but think of it as multiple primary sighting options.

[@textme953]

That's great

[@Sprice93USAF]

I thought I’d lost you Mr. Frodo

[@MR.G-417]

I'm gonna miss you on KZbin. Hello Patreon!

[@CazClocker52]

2:00... "reset" situation...lol...we're reading you loud and clear.

[@1AbominAble1]

Happy New Year to you and your Family, Sir. I’m going to miss your vid’s on KZbin and wish you great success with Patreon. If I ever sign up to donate I’ll seek you out.

[@textme953]

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[@johnw4999]

I probably put too much thought in to my AR setups, but I try to keep them as ambidextrous as possible… even though during the GWOT I never really used a M4 ambidextrously. For me, it’s about having options available… That’s why it’s hard for me to use the 45 offset… and I don’t want two on my rifles, lol

[@fonta_zilla2753]

I like to think of both optics as a “primary”. I’m in the 12’oclocks. Dependent on situation will dictate which optic you use as your “primary”. If you’re doing cqb type stuff, you’d probably want a high mounted red dot, for longer distances you’d want a magnified optic with good cheek weld . I’m surprised there wasn’t much mention of night vision, seeing that you shoot a good bit of it. I feel passive aiming with 12oclock is way better than canted. Granted a lot of mrds don’t have great light transmission for passive aiming, some do a pretty good job. And adding supplemental IR illum. can remedy the issue.

[@fog8969]

That makes sense to me as a good way to look at it, a sensible option. What would your HOB be for the RDS? My existing mounts put mine at I think 3.3" HOB already. I'm guessing and RDS on top of that would be close to 5".

[@srvntotlrd]

For the 12 o clock rds, you really can’t have a higher mount than 1.54”. You also need a specific mounting setup to avoid having an overly tall setup. Geisele with a reptilia the optic sits snugly low. I would say the same amount primary arms’s new offering.

[@ICanDoItMyself]

I love the idea of LPVO’s, I don’t like the weight. Adding a pound and a half in the optic is a lot for the dental floss hanging out of my sleeves. But, I’m back and forth on my optics for my Ruger SFAR. Primary Arms 1-8 FFP Raptor, new 1-10 FFP or new 5x prism with offset red dot. The 5x would be the lightest, by a lot. Decisions, decisions.

[@citronmetalworks]

I like you! I like the way you present this topic. new sub. Thanks for your insight! I like my 45 deg irons. However. im going to look at the swampfox Hostile engagement mount and the liberty red dot.

[@ErikS308]

cross eye dominate, I fight an offset. The top mount works because I can tip the dot in front of my left eye.

[@FldigzFLdigz]

I just put together 14.5 and I too built it around Roscos barrel

[@5jjt]

I can't believe it's being discussed aiming at two-legged critters during a reset. Crazy times, and who would have thought...

[@textme953]

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[@michaelnyden8056]

I’m seeing shooters who live in cities actually now play with the concept that their red dot is primary and instead of magnifier go with a canted magnified prism (to get the reticle bdc benefits instead) so rotate to magnify and engage long range instead of the traditional rotate to engage close range. The concept here is the optic you think you will use the most should be at 12 o’clock yet you don’t necessarily want a red dot on top of your prism or lpvo because you want both to have good cheek welds or work with barricades but intend on using the red dot way more. The PMA mount in interesting too as it’s not canted but rather just goes parallel to the side, I wonder how that one feels.

[@talicowart9577]

Having played with an AUG for a few months, I've been digging the 12oclock position, but I do think it requires a bit of a different philosophy. For a general purpose rifle, I use the piggyback RDS as the primary and then use the LPVO as the secondary. It does involve moving the LPVO a tad lower, but it puts the RDS in a good heads up position. Regardless, for a piggyback RDS, you need to do whatever you can yo get the RDS to be as low as possible to reduce the height over bore and some mounts are just not built for that.

[@benbowditch9265]

Aaron you forgot to mention how shooting at the 45° cant, makes you look like a G. Shooting a 12 O'clock makes you look like a nerd.. I've yet to venture into offset RDS` on my rifles, though I really should on my 1-10's.. I'm currently just running offset irons. It hurts my wallet to spend thousands on optics. Just to go and spend more to mount some tilted! 🤣Thanks for the insight on the options.

[@textme953]

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[@_Delta_P_]

I use offset red dots in competitions. It makes everything super easy

[@reprobatemind6194]

Thank god he isn't paying attention to yt anymore and I can criticize his old videos in peace.

[@MrRyushinn]

Thanks for the info I'm set on 12oclock for the acog on a x95. The 35/45 cant on the gun is too weird.

[@matthewconnor5483]

I remember when the ACOG with a red dot on top came out it seemed like it was too tall to shoot comfortably and the transition was always awkward.

[@LovEyDuBB]

I run ACOG 4x32 and an RMR on an ADM 33° offset mount and use my RMR as the primary.

[@ohreally...]

For most people, an ACOG with a 45 degree RMR, is more than adequate, and it's bulletproof.

[@musicman1eanda]

I'm considering doing a 12 o'clock dot for passive aiming with nods only. No day time use unless my Razor 1-6 somehow goes down.

[@quayshawndameron1349]

OMFG thank you Jesus your the first person on KZbin I've seen use the shooting from cover drill that's actually in cover not protruding it blowing said cover. Sorry if I sound douche but I hate seeing that as a combat vet. Question for guys though, why red dot offset over iron sights, especially CQC? I understand speed but wouldn't the battery/tech aspect of a red dot be a liability? Genuine question.

[@textme953]

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[@poisonouslead85]

Change the battery every year on your birthday and the battery problem is solved.

[@ArimaKihe1]

Great video! Question - would a 45 degree RDS offset mount push more gas in the face (especially when suppressed) as opposed to a 12 o clock mount? Cheers

[@vincentc2466]

Fog is my biggest concern with optics

[@textme953]

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[@ChipSpencer123]

I hadn’t thought about 12 for night😊

[@textme953]

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[@DrewD748]

For CQB in the 12 o’clock, red dot mounted on top of LPVO, position it makes more sense to run the red dot as your primary and your LPVO as your secondary. Running it with the offset mount makes more sense to run your LPVO as your primary. So it depends on what you want to use it for and what works better for you. For CQB I run a red dot on a unity mount and a magnifier on a unity magnifier mount. The unit mounts are much higher and you just have to cheek the gun to get a good sight picture behind it. It is faster and works with gas masks. For CQB If I were to run a LPVO I would run a LPVO mounted red dot and run the red dot for CQB. If I need to take a longer well aimed shot I can get a good cheek weld behind the LPVO. When it comes down to CQB, one is close quarters so sub moa accuracy is not needed, and Marines ran 4 powered ACOG’s with no red dots, it was just point and shoot. For something like a Recce Rifle I would run either the offset or the LPVO mounted red dot as I am more concerned with longer distance engagements. When it comes down to it, its whatever works for you.

[@DrewD748]

@Ass Clapper explain your counter argument.

[@DrewD748]

@Ass Clapper didn’t ask you to explain your answer, I asked you for your counter argument. How about this, how would you run your set up and why?

[@DrewD748]

@Ass Clapper ah I see you are just a keyboard warrior. Got it

[@DrewD748]

@Ass Clapper cool story chode

[@mrshort2379]

why doesn't somebody just make a slightly adjusted side by side mount for 2 optics, so where your primary optic is being shifted more towards the left of your firearm ever so slightly, to be able to mount both optics side by side to make kinda like a Binocular effect, that way you would not have to shift your cheek weld to a chin weld or twist to 45 deg. I'm not positive but I think think I saw a picatinny mount like that on Amazon, but regardless try it may be worth looking into, you may start a new trend or something if all ales fails you are back to square one

[@essequamvideri]

quality.

[@trevorr8834]

Left handed so I figured a condition one 45 degree mounted on the left side would be good. Unfortunately my MCX ejected the brass directly on my right deltoid. Still have the burn scars to prove it.

[@baronvonsnazzy3355]

Kind of off topic but you said mentioned it. Do you find 1.7 mounts to be to high for prone shooting with an SPR?

[@racex428]

Just put a SIG tango msr 1-6x24 on a sfar rifle..and added a offset rmr type 2 on it... question is what would be the perfect zero on the rmr and perfect zero on the lpvo.. normally run a eotech with a magnifier on my 5.56 s zero at 100..308 I'm still wrestling with what to go with ? Any advice..thanks ..

[@BossHugo84]

Side Mount Over Top Mount All Day

[@tidypog3272]

For me it's a no brainer that 45 is a better choice. Rather than using the same mount and having everything fail together, you can have an independent 45deg. You could even move it to a different weapon in the field if you needed to

[@giabyul]

Piggy back is better for switching shoulders as well. Offset is more natural feeling though.

[@joel553009]

Still going with 12 o’clock since I have night vision otherwise offset would be my go to

[@textme953]

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[@Matallen-es5rs]

With the 12 o'clock setup you are dropping your jaw when using that red dot.

[@SageDynamics]

Yeah, because I have to match stock weld to stock position to eye-optic alignment and try to center the reticle.

[@Matallen-es5rs]

@@SageDynamics that's dedication to the trade.

[@Darkpool79]

My personal rule is 1.5 and lower = 12 o'clock piggy back. Higher than that = offset. Since I run very DMR, 12 o'clock works for me 🗿

[@Russianmafia10]

Backup irons still have their place, as no electronics are required

[@devongrey4135]

Here's my take on this, for what it's worth. An LPVO requires me to MANIPULATE the rifle to change magnification. An offset RDS requires me to move my RIFLE to change magnification. A high mounted RDS only requires me to move my HEAD. My neck muscles respond directly to my nervous system. My rifle does not. Of course, if the only high-mounted RDS you use is mounted over a giant LPVO that's mounted extremely high, and you've chosen to put it behind the turret, then your results may vary. Try an RDS on top of a Vortex Spitfire 5x. Completely different experience.

[@politicallyinsensitive4200]

"what if you don't have time to go down to 1x?" Then open both eyes if they're not both open already. I don't know how many times I shot CQB courses with a 4x ACOG. I see your argument for awkward positions though.

[@SageDynamics]

I used an ACOG for a few years. It works but it really doesn’t work for everyone. Lots of reps help but you are going to pair down to some shooters just not having a fast sight picture on magnification.

[@Markyymark662]

Sometimes their both fogged up then offset irons are nice too

[@bennyboy27or]

I think guys only use the 12 o'clock to suggest that maybe they own night vision

[@JKCullens]

On my SPR I am running both a 12 and offset mount dot, they have two different jobs, the top mount is for rough aiming the scope and NVGs and the offset is for up close. 12 o'clock dot has same zero as the scope does, offset is for 25m. There is a reason my gun is running an LMT DMR stock and it's because it has an adjustable cheek riser...