OFMD, The 100, Only Friends, & Opinion in Identity Politics

[@talistheintrovert]

fun fact! I didn't really like this season of OFMD, nor did I think Izzy's death was earned by the narrative, despite how well-acted it was. This doesn't affect my ability to call out people's insane behaviour in regards to this season/finale. You're allowed to dislike and criticise something without taking that criticism out on the writers (who were forced into a corner by HBO) or the actors, or other fans who DO like the show. THAT is what the point is.

[@antonizajkowski9698]

I think Taika's acting was really weird in that scene

[@talistheintrovert]

​@antonizajkowski9698 and you're entitled to that opinion!

[@bitchenboutique6953]

I think it was perfect but YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO YOUR VIEW AS DO I YAAAAAAAY 🎉

[@khrisgallor1341]

I stil feel like you can still be able to criticize the writers because as a writer, you should be able to adapt to changes in the budgets and a lot of writers do this already. But harassing the writers is not justified.

[@RaineInChaos]

I have a number of complaints (and agree the death wasn’t really earned) but I actually still quite loved this season overall Also your hair looks amazing 🤩

[@sophieknowles4876]

The fact that this season of OFMD made me not only like Izzy, but love him as a character, is impressive. For it to then kill him and for me to feel genuine sadness at his death is a testament to the writing of this show and the acting of every member of the cast. Seriously, I hated Izzy in S1, (as you do with an antagonist) so that's saying something. XD

[@LinnaAP]

Oh, same!

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@andreil-g4t]

the moral of the story is quite truly FANFICTION EXSISTS , i remember way back when voltron ended and i as a 14 yr old bisexual was very upset so i took my ass to AO3 and till this day continue to deny the ending of voltron , and i love that u mentioned palestine again after the last video , like itt really pulls shit into perspective , im Jordanian (i live literally less than an hour away from plaestine) and truly if ppl aren't going to educate themselves and try to help at least realize how many things we take for granted

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜💜💜

[@nelli9919]

i had the EXACT SAME thought about voltron hahaha i was so traumatised that truly no piece of media can ever hurt me again because i will never have expectations like that again. i was also a teen not-yet-figured-it-out-bi, but also southasian, and voltron had so many amazing dark skinned characters and everything just hurt me so badly. but it taught me i can have hopes, i can even criticise the shows i love and be disappointed in the direction they took, but at the end of the day i will always just regard it as something i enjoyed for a period of time. and if it actually delivers, then yay! im pleasantly surprised. and if not, ao3 got my back most of the time.

[@dylanthompson5421]

‘I’m about to watch all of my favourite gay little shows and pick them apart until I hate them’ WHY ARE WE LIKE THIS? 😭

[@talistheintrovert]

😭😭😭

[@literaterose6731]

Oh my gosh, this is *so* good! And I want to confirm for you, as an elder queer, that you are 100% spot on about your analysis of Izzie, that sensibility is crystal clear to me. It’s part of what moved me so much about his journey and left me bawling when he died. Beautifully, beautifully explained, and it touches me so much to have a younger person in the community notice it! ❤ Also, I had no idea parts of the fandom have been so ugly about the 2nd season of OFMD (I don’t do social media), and it breaks my heart. In six decades I’ve never felt about a television show the way I feel about our found family of pirates, and it’s my place of bliss. The nitpickers can just get stuffed 🤨

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜💜

[@brat_prince]

I was and still am devastated by the fact that Izzy died. To me it felt like he had more story to tell and I anticipated he'd die at some point but was ultimately unsatisfied by the way they went through with it. I, however, have not spent the last week and a half telling the writers to kill themselves and that I hate them and feel personally attacked by them. Because that's not a normal or acceptable way to behave.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏

[@qwerkywriter7134]

Same here. I’m not on twitter and it’s really hard to be an Izzy fan rn. I’ve loved him since s1 and seeing his arc in s2 has been such a pleasure and I still can’t quite put into words how distraught I am that he died. I haven’t even rewatched the show or the finale, it’s that bad. I wish that the writers hadn’t made that choice and I want to scream from the rooftops about it, but ultimately that was the decision they made and there’s no amount of yelling on the internet that will bring him back. It doesn’t feel right that he died, but it’s also not right to lash out at the creators. I’ll just read as much fix it fic as I can and mourn :(

[@brat_prince]

@@qwerkywriter7134 yeah, emotionally I wanna shake the writers like magic 8 balls but in reality they're just doing their thing! just because I disagree with a choice doesn't make it wrong! I feel so much second hand embarrassment when I see all these stans behaving deplorably. I don't even want to admit that I like Izzy, I just wanna avoid the subject entirely BECAUSE I don't wanna seem like One Of Those People.

[@InsertGoodNameHere-wj7zj]

As a die hard Izzy Hands fan, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THIS. Izzy's death was devastating but it wasn't wrong!!!!

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@Randombugg]

It's undeniable that the OFMD finale was quite rushed but i think it was inevitable in a way? With the first season they didn't know how many people would be invested so they could end it at the point they wanted too, now they not only have almost 1h less worth of content, but they didn't know whether or not they are gonna get a season 3, so a lot of things that they could explore later had to be crammed into this season (and i think it was the right choice considering how many people have complained about some things not being addressed, or characters still having to grow, not understanding this is a season finale and not a series finale)

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@hunt_er92]

See…I didn’t even realise that I had slowly stopped engaging in fandom etc…but I definitely now realise I did it because of this exact problem. Fandom becoming less about having fun and discussing theories/ fan creations. Little respect for writers and actors and being, as you said, bad entitled parasites. and understanding the difference between the actual canon show and fandom wants and headcanons. My first fandom was Merlin (livejournal days) and it was GLORIOUS. Such a wonderful space to be involved in with so much creativity and love for the show and the actors and I never experienced any kind of hate talk or self importance from fans, it really was just a lovely community to have a laugh with. Everyone enjoying fanfic/art, everyone respecting each others ships and honestly most people seemed to be multi shippers haha it wasn’t some weird toddler battle of ‘my ship/fave character etc.. is better than yours”. Even the actors made jokes and engaged well with fans because they didn’t have to be wary or downright scared of fans. I miss that….

[@talistheintrovert]

Honestly the merlin fandom is one of the few that is STILL respectful, I think because most of us remember being there when it ended and it's more of a nostalgic thing now, and so there are less new fans coming in and less intensity to boot 🙏

[@r.e.n.k.1907]

I have WAY too many thoughts pinging around in my head after watching this, but they really all boil down to "this is such an excellent rundown of the problems in fandom & media literacy right now" so thank you so much for this

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@janabrkic426]

honestly, so much of ofmd s2 felt really really weird to me, and izzy's death was just the last drop bc I can forgive any writing decision as 'not for me' but this season was just really fast to me?? like, I followed week by week, not binged the season afterwards, but I swear to whoever that the whole seasons events happened within a week, it was so damn fast the main problem I have with ofmd (and more modern shows after like, 2016 in general) is the at most 10 episode limit. THERE IS NO TIME FOR THE CHARACTERS TO JUST EXIST there's no downtime, there's no filler, every single second has to go into plot and character development instead of letting characters *be* I'd be more excepting of izzy's death if he had more than what felt like 2 days of happiness and acceptance I will die on the hill of companies letting writers write 20 episode seasons

[@trollkienofficial1225]

I'm on tumblr and I legit had to unfollow some omfd bloggers because their Izzy related posts were ACTUALLY starting to take a toll on my mental health.

[@talistheintrovert]

SAME, it was ROUGH

[@MaskedFox-ln4vc]

I'm sick and tired of cradling everybody's feelings and keeping in mind everybody's feelings on the internet. Sometimes people need just to f*ck off. A writer shouldn't care about fandom, because then they limit their creative freedom. When I start thinking if my plotline is problematic or not, I can feel invisible chains around my brain. Our Flag Means Death situation is absurd! Imagine giving queer show to people and then they bash it like idiots. I'm angry at the loudest in the fandom.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@RaineInChaos]

I keep wondering if the things the main character I’m writing right now does are problematic, only to have to remind myself over and over that Casey is kind of an ass and it’s just expected that some of the things they do will be problematic

[@crashb800]

As someone who often does not feel seen by many media romances, I definitely understand the urge to get mad at writing decisions, and I understand seemingly not being able to leave mainstream media for something that actually gives representation, but wow I did not realize how obnoxious some fans are.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@dylanthompson5421]

The clips you insert during post production where you’re clarifying a new point or expanding on one you’ve just made always make me feel like I’m in a lecture at university. In a fabulous way. Like, watching your video essays always serves as an education and I am here for it mawma.

[@talistheintrovert]

omg I love youuuu 🥺

[@gyrosik8851]

I can't be mad at Izzy's death since I saw someone talking how it makes them feel better about the fact they're slowly dying and him dying loved surrounded by friends in pirate style, like life is an adventure. But personally I thought him being indestructible and dying after few shots wasn't very in character for me

[@yessica4932]

i mean this as seriously as i can be: how does dying from getting shot point blank in the chest from extremely close range count as a character trait to you

[@angelspit]

I loved the ending of OFMD, and season two as a whole, and I think it's really unfair that a small but incredibly vocal group of fans are actively trying to tear down the show. It's really upsetting how the creators and cast are seeing some of the worst of fandom right now. But this is also the parasocial relationship at play.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@angelspit]

also INSTANT SUBSCRIBE!!! You've so thoroughly put into intelligent words exactly how I've been feeling about fandom media literacy lately!!

[@talistheintrovert]

​@angelspit thank you!! 🥰🥰

[@ericamacs3875]

I felt that Izzy's death made sense in his character arc. I feel like OFMD was a bit messy in the second series just because there were so many new characters and not enough time to develop things. But there were some lovely things such as Con O'Neill singing La Vie on Rose. And some really funny things, Minnie Driver and her GF and that whole scene in their house was hilarious. I felt embarrassed at the fandom though losing their shit over Izzy's death. The worst was on Con O'Neill's own instagram, instead of just saying you were wonderful and thanks so much, some people getting all angry on the actor's behalf. I wish they'd just not express those opinions outside of their own blogs.

[@talistheintrovert]

🙏🙏🙏

[@CBearzatto]

What have they done on Insta? I feel only sorry for Con that he wasn't cast in The Last Of Us. That would have been so wonderful! I hope he is in S2.

[@ericamacs3875]

@@CBearzatto He posted a kind of farewell post to his character, with a nice photo of himself walking along the beach.. And some fans were just normal, like thanks so much, you were great, etc etc But some were saying how unfair it was, how they let him down, let the character down, that kind of thing..

[@nicoleemenhiser8028]

I honestly think we need to spend more time examining how we use characters and stories as a replacement for friendship, connection, and even self love and confidence. TV shows and other media are built on conflict 90% of the time; they can't be the safe space you need by their very nature. In my view, it's repeatedly proven true that it's not appropriate or healthy to treat them that way. It distorts the artform *and* how we interact with it. It's not healthy for any party involved. And I say that as a person who did that exact thing through a lot of my lonely childhood. I know how it happens, I know how good it feels to connect with characters like that, but in all things there are limits. You can *love* a piece of media, but not to the point it can't function the way it's meant to, or so intensely that *you* can't function when the realities of your total lack of control over that thing inevitably become apparent. You have to appreciate the medium for what it is and separate your sense of self from it.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@elianalane]

I really appreciate your take on Izzy’s death scene. As someone walking into middle age and struggling with many of the issues Ed and Stede faced, I found it incredibly powerful to have Izzy, an older mentor figure, supporting Ed to be himself with his chosen family. OFMD absolutely works as queer allegory, but people forget it can also be an allegory for any story of outsiders dealing with rejection and finding loving, meaningful community in each other. A huge theme through the show is about the importance of being soft and supportive with each other, especially as we go through midlife identity crises. Izzy is finally able to be that in his scene with Ed. I liked the ending, and, while it’s cool that some people don’t agree, it sucks to be told how this is somehow “homophobic” and that I am morally wrong for finding power in it.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@keithredacted8154]

I honestly think the reason why there's is such a devastated reaction in OFMD fanbase is because Izzy fans were really ostracized by the comminuty and made to feel terrible for liking him a lot after season 1 which caused them to lash out even more which is really just a sad situation.

[@talistheintrovert]

I'm not entirely certain that's true considering almost every izzy Stan I've interacted with is a staple part of the fandom, although maybe it's different in twitter fandom spaces, but I can see why if they were treated badly it would make them feel worse

[@undead4what]

I agree with a lot of points you made in this video, namely how fans can kind of get this tunnel vision by obsessing over their own perception (headcannons) of the show they love, and feeling blindsided by the actual reality of the show they’re watching. however, i will say in the case of the most recent season of OFMD i think some of the fan reactions (by people who loved Izzy) have been compounded by some of those fans already being discontent with the season for other reasons and Izzy’s death, as you said, was just the final nail in the coffin. I think it makes sense that the writers chose to kill Izzy off, but personally I think it was too soon. I understand that they were unsure about a renewal for season 3 and wanted this to be satisfying as an ending just in case, but I think that did their story a big disservice. To me, they didn’t earn some of the things they were trying to lay out because they were trying to cram too much into too little time, and as a result all the characters suffered for it, the most notable for some people being Izzy.

[@talistheintrovert]

I respect that, but I think that anger should be turned towards Max for underfunding the show and leaving it in uncertainty, rather than the writers

[@mikaylaeager7942]

I’ve tried out several of your recommendations and realized that I disagree with almost all your media preferences and opinions… however I keep watching your videos because I enjoy listening to you talk about them. Keep making videos!

[@gemmamoon5998]

I love your commentary on Only Friends (and agree with everything) and I’ll definitely listen to Ben’s podcast! I was sucked into this show from the first episode and it’s not perfect but it’s MY imperfect, messy show. There’s nothing like it, truly. I mean, there are a few shows about messy gays out there, but they’re far and few between.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@eikoxvivi]

god thank you so so so much for pointing all this out. I love your videos and I love this too!!

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@hernameissimi]

If I remember correctly, Lexa’s death also happened because the actress had scheduling conflicts with another show 🤔

[@talistheintrovert]

correct!!

[@dionarthit]

Omg I just LOVE your perspective on this matter, is so madure, is a thing that all the internet fandom (especially twitter) REALLY NEEDS TO LISTEN, that most of the time the problem isn't the show, the problem IS YOU. I never hated a story final or a show itself, (a lil bit bc I don't see many usa tv shows tbh), and if i don't like a story, I just move on ??? Some people took so personally everything that they feel the show is only for THEM. You can dislike smt and comment about that, but the hate, the bullshit speech, insult the creators and send death threats??? Dude you need to touch some grass I feel your channel is a super comfort zone from all the hate that I see literally everyday, thanks for that. Love u! ❤❤

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@rzeka8682]

Starting the video strong with a sea shanty i see ❤ Great video btw, the fandom discourse recently is really getting on my nerves. It seems you can't write toxic queers, you can't write a meaningful death for a queer character even in a show full of queer characters without it being some moral failing. Just let people tell their stories please

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@bobbyvinsmoke3041]

I watched the entire video even tho I haven’t watched any of the shows mentioned lol, but omg i agree. This is exactly why i engage very little with fandom now days. Also all of the discourse about people relating to characters a lot… it’s hard bc im so used to not relating to anything i watch (im an aroace neurodivergent girl from chile) that i just learned to enjoy media regardless of its relatability, i think people are forgetting that something (like a show or a book) can still be very special without any relatability or representative value.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@huh-tk9iv]

Thots and prayers! I have not watched any of the shows mentioned here but what I've realised through this video is how... disconnected I am with most fandom. I just look at pretty gifsets and fanfic and move on haha. But I love this video! You've articulated some messy topics in a very clear way. Feelings are valid but they're not the be all and end all. I have *feelings* about the earlier dubious scenes of Kinn and Porsche but: 1. It's a mafia show, what do you expect? and 2. The relationship and show is more interesting because of it. I can acknowledge that those scenes make me hella uncomfortable while not thinking that the show-writers are evil (maybe they are, I don't know any of them personally, funnily enough) or the entire show is bad. It's a shame that some people struggle to do that.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@AcappellaTidbits]

Also funny I met a person who was the complete opposite of this. Another millennial who told me with their whole chest that 90's-00's wasn't homophobic because of a handful of characters like Tara, some guy from the OC, etc.

[@CrymsynSymphony]

A friend of mine have been having this exact conversation a lot over the past few weeks as we finish up shows like Only Friends and a few others, and you saying that they will find any reason to be unhappy about something just hit the nail on the head. It's very much a balancing act for the writers and directors these days and I do not envy them. Especially when they see us crying out for something specific and then they give it to us and then we hate it because it was just a bit too hot or too cold - the getting it just right is impossible. It's such a deep and interesting topic, and I am so thankful you put it all into words that helped me find better ways to articulate how I'm feeling about a lot of these shows.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@pleaseignoreme2946]

I honestly have never been more angry at a fandom’s reaction to a character death quite like Izzy’s. I absolutely DETESTED him in season one, I’m a major Ed kinnie and I knew too many people in my life who treated me like he treated Ed. AND YET season two made me forgive him so deeply, I learned to love all his character traits, his faults and his abilities, and when he died I SOBBED so hard my roommate knocked on my door to ask if I was okay. And that really is a testament to how great the writing was. And for people to immediately start hating the show, calling it ableist and all these other things because they were sad their favourite character died is incredibly disrespectful. Of course, please grieve your characters, it was incredibly sad. But like…don’t bash on the writers for making you cry. If you don’t like the show now, THATS FINE! I’ve abandoned shows after my favourite character died cause it didn’t feel the same. But don’t suddenly say the show is some how prejudiced for making these decisions…like girl, television would be so boring if every show tip toed around the fans’ feelings to make sure they aren’t Twitter cancelled. Cmon now y’all.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏👏

[@CBearzatto]

I disagree. I loved Izzy from the start and for his intrigue at the end of S1 he was abused terribly. That is not funny at all! I hope for a massive fix-it in S3.

[@angelspit]

@@CBearzatto It's not supposed to be funny, it's supposed to show how far Stede leaving and Izzy's total heartlessness pushed Ed to the brink and over the edge. The show is a romcom that has never shied away from violence and tragedy and I wish Izzy fans remembered this. Izzy in season 1 did SO MUCH bad shit to Stede, Ed and the crew, and the year and a half from s1 airing has given his fans a completely headcanon take on his character that is entirely divorced from canon.

[@icicleditor]

Awesome bi ace here to drop tons of wisdom on us again

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@laurarosales19]

I really love this video and am in agreement with many if not most of the points you are making. Just wanna add in a totally non aggressive way however that you began your section on depictions of what some refer to as "abuse" in media with a criticism of OFMD viewers that claim Ed as Izzy's abuser, but never went back to that point to explain why you don't agree with that notion in context to the second season. It caught me off guard because it seemed like what I myself think of as actual abuse that was suffered by Ed's crew, and especially Izzy, when Ed had his heartbreak-induced breakdown, was being compared to a singular slap between one of the couples in the 100, which was weirddd to me... but if anyone wants to clarify the point you were making there to me, I'd be grateful, in case I missed something.

[@talistheintrovert]

the word "abuse" the way people use it in conjuction with Ed and Izzy doesn't apply because of how the power is swapped between them, and how Izzy deliberately pushes Ed into becoming more violent and is only upset because HE he reaping the consequences. acts of violence are not always abuse, they're just acts of violence, regardless of who they're affecting. Izzy having his toes cut off was something he wanted (or at least he thought he did) and while Ed's behaviour was violent and unhinged he was also clearly going through a mental break and Izzy pushed him to the edge. if we're splitting hairs about abusers, Izzy did it first, and then Ed did it, but I don't like to use that language because they're fictional characters not written to be in an abusive relationship and I think it's dangerous and reductive to point at it as abusive when the language of the show is in violence and day to day life is not.

[@ghostporcupine]

I know i already left a comment but I wanted to add that i genuinely love listening to you talk about anything you are passionate about!

[@talistheintrovert]

that's so kind of you, thank you!! 🥺🥺

[@leahgroess5361]

I think my biggest problem with Izzy's death is the problem that I have with the last two episodes in general, that they didn't have the time to tell the story they wanted, so they rushed it and it's a bit difficult to really parse what they were trying to do. The uncertainty about season 3 existing at all makes it more confusing. Is this always how the second season was going to end, or did they kind of fast-track some things so that if we don't get another season, there's still an ending of sorts? I might change my mind on how I feel about it all after a re-watch, but there are a lot of little things that just bother me and I can't distinguish between what was intentional vs what's a result of being severely short on time and money this season. I said elsewhere that to me it felt like they only found out they were getting 8 episodes instead of 10 after they'd already filmed 6 1/2 of them. There's just such a huge disconnect in how the last two episodes feel compared to the first six that I'm left mostly confused rather than heartbroken in an intentional way. Like I said, I might change my mind after a re-watch but I'm not in a big hurry to do it right now. Oh! Another comment I saw was that maybe this had been the original storyline from the beginning before the actors all made the characters their own and the improv'ed scenes had an impact on what the story was. Some of the things that happened in the last two episodes felt really OOC for multiple characters, and if it's a case of the writers clinging to the original story beats when that isn't true to the way the characters evolved, that's not good writing.

[@oddbunny4482]

When I started watching Only Friends, I immediately fell in love with Boston. He's just so entertaining as a character ! Fun to watch and chaos maker, always had a good time whenever he was on screen. I also really wanted him to end up with Nick because they were cute together, but it became clear really quickly that it wouldn't work. I don't think the ending of their storyline was particularly a "bad ending". In fact, I think it was the best one for both their personalities, because Boston wanted freedom and Nick wanted exclusivity. It would have been worse if they'd forced them into a picture perfect sweet couple when it isn't how they work. It's not what you typically imagine for a romance, but I think it was a good, or at least neutral, ending for them

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@madamemim5651]

i agree! a "good ending" doesn't always have to be a relationship! i hope we will get a season 2 to see how boston's story develops

[@MusicalIrishgrl]

Completely agree Nick needs to be alone for a while anyway to learn to love himself which is what he said to Boston when they officially ended things. I hope Boston finds better friends in New York and is a little better about communicating what he wants out of relationships. He does a pretty good job in the 1st half of the show there but the later half not so much.

[@ichbinben.]

I saw Izzy's death coming, but when it happened I was still devastated. And that's a good thing. He was an antagonist in season 1, but over the course of season 2 his character was explored so much more, his feelings for Ed, his relationship with the crew, his image of himself and of what pirates are "supposed" to be like... I wish the season had been longer, I wanted to see more of the "new" Izzy, after all this character development, and I hate character deaths in general, so when I started to suspect he was going to die, I was really anxious and hoped they wouldn't do it. I was crying so hard when it happened, and I hated it. I still hate it. I hate character deaths, because when I love a show, movie, game, or book, the characters I love become part of the background noise in my brain, and when some of them are dead while others live, it makes it harder for me to justify them being together in my head. Don't know if this makes sense to anyone, but it's why I hate character deaths. But I don't hate the show. Izzy's death made sense for the story, it was meaningful, and the fact that it hurt so much shows how good a job they had done with the character this season. I still hate it, but that's what headcanons are for. But bashing a show that gave us so much representation is just counterproductive. It just makes people (writers, directors, etc) think that if you include representation, you're going to get hate no matter what you do, so it's not worth it.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@beatrizcasado5795]

Thank you for this video, you were able to put into words what I've been feeling for a while. I noticed it too with the reaction of a lot of people to the Good Omen season 2 finale, but the reaction to the Izzy's death was even worse. Usually I love to search fan's posts on tumblr after a new episode of a show I love, but after seeing what most of the posts about OFMD were saying after the finale I have been unable to look at the tag. It was making me feel really upset.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜

[@dylanthompson5421]

Bishhhh, when you started speaking about how when the content you love starts going downhill, it affecting your mental health, is so real! I vividly remember waiting for The Power of the Doctor over a year ago and venting to my friend for like an hour about how we hadn’t even seen a trailer yet and how hard it was to get excited for something that the current showrunners didn’t seem to want to get fans excited for, if that makes sense? Oof, thank goodness for Daddy Russell returning omg. The Power of the Doctor ended up being a slay so it is what it is I guess 😭

[@talistheintrovert]

yessssss let's goooooo

[@AcappellaTidbits]

Never watched the 100...funny how the people I saw mad at it never ever mentions her narrative significance, the other queer characters, or the fact that it was obviously she was gonna die.

[@mr.fish666]

You're so smart and articulate, litteraly took the words right from my mouth. I watched this and the autism video and i love you now 💕💕💕

[@talistheintrovert]

you're so kind!! thank you 🥰🥰

[@fionamclary7631]

Talis, I enjoy your videos so much. You're always so well-spoken and you give me a lot to think about whether or not I agree with you. I just finished OFMD S2 and was literally crying at Izzy's death after finding him fascinating yet horrible in S1. And I never cry at shows/movies. I'm not really on social media, and even less on fandom social media, but I am grimly unsurprised that people have been...disproportionate about the situation online. And if people are (justifiably) upset about the pacing of the last couple of eps due to Max's undue control over things that affect the creative process and quality of art, I think this just tells us what the show has been saying all along: The real enemy is ✨️capitalism✨️

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜🖤

[@widogest]

great great GREAT video!!! i'm not in any of the fandoms u mentioned and thankfully i wasn't in the t100 fandom when the great wars happened but this kind of reaction is all over fandom spaces. people are way too quick to call out something they don't like as bad writing and it's frustrating. the sense of entitlement to a story or the direction it's heading is insane. everyone's been burned by bad writing before but it doesn't mean that when something we don't like happens, we're being burned again. also it's funny that you mentioned how much a completely 'unploblematic' story would be boring because yeah!!! it would.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@Purplenightshades]

Once again, you’re spitting truth. Thank you. Also your hair looks great.

[@talistheintrovert]

thank you!! 🥰🥰

[@mr.fish666]

20:30 omggggg, it makes so much sense now, i had no clue why people whete so upset about Izzy dying. I personally thought it was inevitable, looking at how his entire arc this season had been set up (the stuff with blackbeard and how their relationship is toxic, and how Izzy basically created him and fueled his worst traits) (and also the failed suicide fake-out death). Devastating, sure (i cried for a week), but it made sense to me. And i thought people being upset was just them being sad about their fav character dying and projecting it onto the show, treating it as a kind of betrayal. But now i see how this can be upsetting when you treated the show as a comfort story, and saw the ending as a kind of "bury your gays", "we don't deserve happines whitoud tragedy" thing. Still disagree with the outrage but i can see the other side more clearly now, thank you!

[@heh1680]

Just wanted to say thank you for being a voice of reason about ofmd! Twitter became unhabitable for me bc of the amount of negativity, especially for someone who enjoyed the finale. It was devastating and I understand ppl being sad over their beloved character but it bothers me how this one thing erased everything good in this show, to the point of wanting ofmd to get canceled and its writer harassed. It just shows me that these ppl never liked it outside of Izzy which is a pity but I would rather see them leave the fandom instead of being nasty to others. Hugs and kisses for those who feel sad over the finale but still remain friendly and polite

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@harlequeenchannel]

Have not watched the full video yet, but seeing Izzy in the thumbnail activated my fight or flight alajwjdjdi One of the worst things I saw about his death was how it made the show not about "queer joy" anymore... alright, what about literally every other character (and don't even get me STARTED on when people said it was bury your gays -_-)

[@talistheintrovert]

🙃🙃🙃

[@carpevinum8645]

The izzy death was devastating. Because he had been well written and acting with a meaning ful arc. I didn't like it, but it narratively made sense. It wasn't bury your gays - heaps of living queer characters, seems like half the cast. He also wasn't the only amputee rep. More prominent in this season, but there is another with a protmsthetic limb their whole time in both seasons - Spanish Jackie. One thing niggling in my brain is David Jenkins saying somethung along the lines of there isn't an OFMD without Izzy, how explicitly magic/spirits has been set up through buttons and the gravy boat, and that ed and stede have his grave so close to them. I love the idea of Izzy in the afterlife still guiding the crew. I am grateful, as a S3 hadn't been picked up yet, that they ended with some closure while still leaving natural openings for the show to continue. I think people also confuse their meta posistion with the character's positions a bit too. I've seen comments about how they've split Ed and Stede from the crew which is dumb because they'll have to come back together in Season 3. But they're not deadpool, they don't know that they are in a show. And I think them at least attempting stepping away makes sense given what came before. I also think people need to understand that the half hour comedic show isn't trying to be the next GoT. I've seen many people criticise the lack of depth in worldbuilding and not completely explored storyline points - it os a half hour show. A workplace drama withsome narrative throughlines... that's never what this was.

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@comicallysmallcerealbox]

This is unrelated to the video ( it was a very good video by the way ) but i like how your makeup matched your hair! it looked super cool :) .

[@talistheintrovert]

thank you so much!! 🥰🥰

[@Alikeablepeach]

I actually get so excited when you upload ❤

[@talistheintrovert]

🥺🥰

[@fernandafuentes6858]

I just think it's crazy to claim bury your gays in a show full to the brim with queer characters, this is ofmd not supernatural or sherlock where cast and crew actively made fun of queer fans; you can tell by the writing and dj interviews that everyone cares a lot about the queer fans and characters and if the people complaining had thinked critically for one second they would have realised that Izzy was clearly going through the very very common trope of redemption -> death, and you could argue that it was rushed because we only had 8 episodes or wathever but calling it problematic and calling dj homophobic is way too far, go touch grass

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@pandapiraatti97]

Thanks for this video and many of your other videos on internet and fandom culture. You're doing good work!

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@randomnerd3402]

17:23 into the video, and the issue of fandoms liking their idea of the show they're watching rather than how the actual show is reminds me of the obnoxious crowd of Watchmen fans who think Rorschach is the most righteous character in the comic. These people are usually semi-right-wing and are falling down the comic-fan to fascist pipeline. The author of Watchmen, Alan Moore, has gone onto voice his disdain for this crowd of fans and has said that they couldn't be more wrong.

[@randomnerd3402]

​@@Call-Me-IRorschach is probably the most worrying example, right alongside Punisher, because they're both blatantly unstable fascists, with Rorschach being a raging misogynistic pig in how he views women. Rorschach's worldview is completely black and white, which is another trait of fascism, and is based off the ideology of Spider-Man creator Steve Ditko, who was a friend of Moore's, and when he read Watchmen, he thought Rorschach was a complete psychopath. To put it shortly, the comic writer Rorschach is based off thinks that Rorschach is crazy.

[@randomnerd3402]

@@Call-Me-I Yeah Moore and Ditko were friends in Ditko's later years. The last pair of people you'd think would get along.

[@nyangnyang8611]

i personally loved wedding plan and i was almost outraged by people not talking about it as much as other mame stories but i now understand that people like those stories exactly because they're a hot mess with characters being very loud about their sexual intentions, especially the "top", so when they find a character labeled as such having restrictions they cannot accept it and find it unfair or almost abusive. i remember how emotional i got when sailom cried in nuea's arms, that poor man really needed to feel safe with his own chosen partner with all his walls down. for only friends i can only say boston kinda had it coming, at that point a relationship with nick was impossible simply because they were not on the same page, and they weren't all along: nick wanted an exclusive relationship while boston was not ready to give up his playboy lifestyle (still didn't like it when others were slutshaming him tho). maybe top and mew weren't the best for each other (force and book's acting was phenomenal, i will fight anyone who hates on them for their characters) but at least they were honest at the end. i was very done with the fandom for judging ray as bad when he tried to be in a relationship with mew as if it wasn't necessary for him to realize things about himself and his own feelings. people forgot to look at the bigger picture and actually understand the plot and the characters. for clexa, i completely agree with you, i loved them together but they were probably just not meant to be, but it was clear that lexa left a huge impact on clarke because she wasn't just forgotten, clarke kept thinking about her at times as it's normal to do with a dead significant other. but of course clarke was still alive so she had to move on and find love again. lexa's death wasn't the big injustice some people made it out to be. and if people can't accept it maybe they should just stay in the beautiful world of fanfictions and fanart and stop consuming the main product

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@AnnekeOosterink]

I genuinely cackled at "ace people can be evil, and that's feminism". Firmly in the funny cause it's true camp. I would like to add that making lgbtq+ people or women (or black people, or Asian people, or any other minority) villains is fine, with a caveat. The amount of character that are lgbtq+ or women and not villains needs to be proportional though. My main gripe with this is the "okay, he can be queer coded, but only if he's the villain, and is punished for being queer (and maybe also because he's a villain)" trope. Queer coded, or nowadays explicitly queer, villains are a tired trope, and I kind of don't want to see it ever again, except all the flamboyant sassy villains are so much more fun and interesting than the white bread main hero. I can totally see that someone who has seen queer villains over and over and over and over again is kind of tired of it and wants to see a badass gay (or bi, or pan, or ace, etc) as the hero for once. Which we're getting more and more of, to be clear, but if you add up all the queer(coded) characters and check how many are the hero of the story and how many the villain I don't think we're even reached balance yet. Especially if we're looking at the popular movies and the big hollywood blockbuster types. Same goes for women, I like women in all kinds of roles, but they're so often still the stereotypes, the virtuous virginal heroine, the evil sexy seductress in tight leather, the mother, the witch etc. It's okay to use stereotypes, but especially the gendered ones are so boring, where is the sexy villain in a leather playsuit with a tit-window? Where is the cool suave heroine who sleeps with everyone and is considered cool (and not a ho) and ends up saving the boy and kissing as the credit roll? Is the bury your gays trope explicitly about media with one queer in a group of straights who dies? I've never understood that part as an essential bit of the trope. Though, if you have a show with only queer characters and one dies it does seem weird to call it bury your gays. It's hard to define when it counts as bury your gays, what if there are two lgbtq+ characters? Three? I don't know I guess. (That's a common trope with my comments on your videos I've found, shit's hard, man) Also yay a Hannibal mention! What do you mean the relationship explicitly built on murder, mutual attempts at killing, framing, and arresting the other, mutilating one another, trying to make the other commit murder, lies, lies and more lies, and manipulating the other is not healthy? 😆 Is that not how relationships work? Anyway, yeah. That's not only the point, it's what makes it interesting to watch for me. It is bad and toxic? Hell yes, sign me up for a 4th season! It's not as if the show is saying that it's good or something, the show is not pretending they're nice and sweet and healthy at all. They love each other AND they're terrible for each other. Hannibal looked at Will and thought "I could make him worse" and then did that. That's the story and the draw if I'm honest.

[@ifasyafia]

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I NEEDED THIS!!! I'm so glad I clicked on this video because, here's the thing: I do have critics for OUR FLAG MEANS DEATH season 2 (mainly the pacing of the last episodes on the show, but really I blame it on Max for cutting the budget for the show. F*CK MAX) and found people actually I agree with who shares my critics, while I agree some of theirs. But then when the season started to wrap up, people I agree with stated to be.... less agreeing. Some of their critics have good criticisms but then it turns to be more of a rant then anything, where they nitpick things from the show to make their critics make sense but still fall flat... Again, if that's how they feel, that's completely fine. But I think it's more of a them thing and bias of how they what the show goes, then actually giving the show actual good criticisms. This actually make me even self reflect of my own critics of the show if they were actually criticisms, or my biases of what I what/expectations for the show, like one of them are, "Wish Jim and Olu would be more romantically with each other this season" but I understand why they are less shown their relationship abit because to present Olu/Zheng and Jim/Archie's relationship more. (Also sorry to rant about this here but it's weird, to me at least, that people think Jim and Olu aren't a couple anymore just because they both got a new partner when it's clear the 4 of them are in a polyamory relationship??? Even Olu calling Jim "babe", Jim Archie and Olu slow dancing together, and Jim wanting a shared bed with THE 4 OF THEM TOGETHER if they moved in with Zheng's ship is a clear indication their still a thing??? Like I said, sorry for the rant. Also crossing fingers seeing more Jim and Olu scene time with their new profound poly relationship🤞) One of them is also, unfortunately thinking Ed was an abuser,(mostly I was influenced by early takes before the last episodes release, and don't thing this anymore of course) yes, he's was awful, but it wasn't portray of such Ed IS one, and it MAKES SENSE why he acted that why. Even the show aware about that Ed's actions aren't justifiable. Also, most people I see in my circle kind of forget the things Izzy did to push Ed in season 1. Like DID THEY FORGET IZZY PULL THE BRITISH ON THEM??? 😭 (I forgive the man in season 2 of course but weird people completely forget that-) Seriously thank you for being the voice of reason (for me at least) from the amount of bad takes I found from X/Twitter. This was a breath of fresh air!

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@angelaholmes8888]

Even though I was sad with what happened lexa i was more devastated when Lincoln story ended the way it did his character had so much potential along with wells to me 😢

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@BeansKneez]

i'm not a clexa fan, having only watched the pilot of the 100 and found nothing to grab me (except wells who i later found out gets unceremoniously whacked in the very next episode. WILD. i am totally with you on the garbage treatment of black characters) and i don't condone anything like harassment or death threats. still, there's a lot you didn't acknowledge about lexa's death that contributed to fandom's inability to let it go. one of the writers explicitly admitted that killing a queer woman so soon after she started a relationship hews too close for comfort to the hays code rule that gay characters have to be punished for their lifestyle, usually by killing them off. and a member of the production team was documented intentionally going into fandom spaces and hyping up clexa and essentially lying to gay fans who were invested in the relationship. it was really twisted

[@talistheintrovert]

yeah we all hate Jason and Kim in this house, they treated other fans badly too

[@SnowRaves]

I also do remember reading one of the writers on Only Friends saying they had different plans for the ending of the show but were asked by gmmtv to change some things so the ending might have also been the best they could do for us. Personally I really liked the ending for Boston because in my mind Boston might not be monogamous or alloromantic so I really liked Nick saying to him what he did, also not everyone ends up in relationships and that's okay. Nick was my 2nd least favourite character in the show but the way he dealt with his relationship with Boston in the final ep actually endeared me to him a little. (Also would have loved BoeingMew, rip ship that never went anywhere)

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@LittleRedWhine]

I wouldn’t be surprised if GMMTV asked them to make MORE characters end up together than they had on planned originally

[@CarlyStricklandArt]

You're so right about everything all the time. ✨"And that's feminism!"✨ 😂

[@talistheintrovert]

✨️feminism✨️

[@khrisgallor1341]

I REALLY feel like the real reason why the fan's reaction to Izzy's death is more angrier than expected is because the whole season was just felt so rushed and clanky that to warrant a death like that was just so not worthy or deserved. A youtuber called zemantler were also making videos throughout the season and were already pointing out how messy the episodes are even before the finale.

[@talistheintrovert]

which is also not something to blame the writers for! take it to MAX for slashing the budget and giving them less time and episodes

[@khrisgallor1341]

@@talistheintrovert I think harassing the writers is insane but I think its okay the criticize the writers. Lots of writers in the industry adjust to changes and that includes changes in the budget. Making that a cop out excuse for any bad writing decision while not trying to work on the writing of the series to make it work for lesser episodes is still worthy of criticism. Season 2 still had a bunch of eps and even I think stuff could have been done differently to fit the amount. Again, not okay to harass.

[@ColdRolledGold]

people talking about jojo like he was going to "save" or "correct the wrongs" of the genre has given me the ick from the start. yes, he's pushed boundaries before but a) this is a different type of show and b) *why is western fandom so comfortable expecting(demanding?) ONE MAN working in a conservative asian country to constantly, perfectly push boundaries and subvert expectations in exactly the progressive-enough ways they want?* and now that it's over, why are people so comfortable putting words in his mouth? go outside! get a hobby! because only friends DID push boundaries! all within the constraints it was working with. sure it could have done more etc etc but so can every other show, and it's staggering what it *did* manage. like, i didn't realize that GMM is publicly funded! that's an important thing to keep in mind! the disney comparison is an excellent one. thank you! this has been rattling around my brain all week, how entitled western fans are about asian media, so i guess i should thank the ofmd fandom for making me realize it's not just asian media. we're just being unhinged all around apparently, what a win! izzy's death was so goddamn hard to take, but it *did* make sense for the story. i waded into the tag on tumblr *once* after watching the finale and immediately regretted it lol anyway, thank you for this video! excellent points, clearly, compassionately presented, and it's just such a breath of fresh air. also i ADORE your hair, and you look amazing in a pirate hat

[@talistheintrovert]

you're so kind!! and I completely agree with all your points!! 👏👏

[@Ravy_Nevermore]

your hair is glorious and I love that you paired it with that shirt

[@talistheintrovert]

thank you!! 🥰

[@lisatobleman7318]

Loved wedding plan. And how refreshingly unproblematic it was. Only Friends was so much messy fun.

[@talistheintrovert]

🤌🤌

[@tova1412]

I have only seen a season or two of the 100 years and years ago, so can't say much about that except it sounds like your take is a reasonable one, but when it comes to OFMD and Only Friends I just want to say thank you!! yes, 100%, very much agreed - you have good takes, no yelling from me whatsoever. calling something bad writing just because you don't like it is absurd. were the shows perfect? no! do they have to be? no! I absolutely loved both of them anyway, and that's gonna be the case with like 95% of shows out there. I am slightly ashamed to be one of those people that haven't watched Wedding Plan (yet!), but I definitely am planning on doing it, and this video made me look forward to it a lot more than I initially was, so thank you for that, too!

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@Luciana-st7kz]

I was personally really invested in TopMew as a couple, their storyline and their character’s development, but I understand why some people didn’t engage with it as much. I also think ForceBook are great actors and did a good job portraying these characters (it was really disappointing that so many scenes of them were cut off ), so it’s really unfair to see the hate towards them, because of their characters. As for Boston, I personally think the ending for him and Nick was simply realistic. From the very beginning we saw that he wasn’t a monogamous person and didn’t want to settle down because he wanted to move away. And I do think Nick was very clear about that fact as well, and decided to engage in that kind of relationship not because he wanted that, but because he didn’t want to lose Boston, so the fact that they acknowledged they weren’t in the same page at the end, actually showed the improvement of both characters. Boston “learnt his lesson” and had his chance for redemption, and ended up facing the consequences of his actions, in order to move on and follow his dreams. And I’m tired of people saying he didn’t change and were disappointed in his character development, slut-shaming him and stuff, just because he didn’t change his priorities for Nick

[@spameranne]

lambasting you...with praise! thanks for another nuanced take. sorry, it's late where I'm at so my brain's a bit less than helpful rn. hope you're doing well, and that everyone in the comments is having a fairly alright time of it.

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@Elly-z7q]

Hindsight is fun as Lexa is also a cult leader a replaceable one (because the grounders were worshipping the glorified usb stick and not her for her) but one nontheless (it made Clarke's actions after getting away from Polis and trying to force the usb onto Luna with "its your destiny" so horrible especially because so many people never mentioned that Clarke was almost completely brainwashed by a cult leader and traumatised when they were hating her as a leader and going Raven would be a better kinda leader... i know i wheezed so much) one of the few moments i remember from the show is Clarke asking Lexa something like "do you ever talk about anything other than your death" and us literally meeting the person in charge of Lexa's Will (he was also an idiot and you know) and you know the possible people who might inherit her role (I want to rewatch the show but to satisfy my curiousity i have to watch all the lexa scenes and see how many times she actually talked about her death AND how many times she was almost killed) another Bury Your Gays thing that annoys me is the Haunting of Bly Manor because like how? god the show would have been so much better if Jason and Kim were barred from social media for the whole of the show from the moment fans started calling Jason "Daddy" and editing his face onto pictures of Jesus Christ (then after Lexa's death they edited him to look like H1tler i found a screenshot of it whilst tagging things on tumblr and yeah imagine my reaction) they should have put up boundaries but they didn't thoughts and prayers you were bang on the money and what should we do with the drunken sailor (annoying fans who harass people)? i'm parital to a drop them in a seperate boat till they sober (they grow up)

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@zosobansk]

It really makes me think about jujutsu kaisen and the fandom's reaction to a lot of character deaths that are happening in the second season, and that are happening in the manga. And on the one hand, yeah they were heartbreaking and I am waiting to watch the second season with my brother because otherwise I dont know if I could deal with it emotionally, but that doesnt mean the author is wrong to kill those characters off. And god, they are getting death threats from fans, I've seen petitions to bring certain characters back. We really need to teach people media literacy, education system failed us

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@pampxmpam]

ofts definitely suffered from fandom pressure A LOT. at one point the show was crafted to fit the fans tastes and that’s why we ended up with a lot of underdeveloped characters and only sweet moments at the end. i think the writers and editors only fault is fearing fans’ reactions and delivering only what they wanted to see. it was also quite frustrating to see boston be misunderstood as a character by everyone even to the last minute of the show. imo the “bad ending” thing wasn’t even bad. that’s how i expected his character to end because he’d been quite honest about not being monogamous but people expected him to be monogamous for nick only by the end when nowhere did he hint to change? i think we could’ve gotten a way different and maybe slightly better show if they hadn’t let fans opinions influence their decisions.

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@berutata15682]

For me personally, I just feel that the time that Izzy is on a good term with himself and everything else is too short and it’s just…devastating. I feel like if he’s dead in season 3 with enough time to see him more then maybe I might react better than this? Eh, no use thinking about what’s impossible now. You’re right though, I need to get my shit together and go outside. Can’t keep crying over this. Anyway, great video, great analysis, You got a new subscriber! Looking forward to your future analysis ✨

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@devil267]

another lovely video. it's crazy to me the level of backlash characters and writers get for certain decisions. for the people who watched only friends and have watched jojo's previous work, how could you possibly think that there was a moral point he was personally trying to make with promiscuity? i am so curious to see what the directors' original cut of the show was :( sorry to go on a tangent here, but i also saw some ridiculous comments about warp effect after i finished it. right from the beginning, people hated new's character (which, fair), and were like "why is he the protagonist of the show when everyone else is more interesting?", "why is he being presented as the savior and trying to fix everyone's problems. they don't even need him." and i wanted to SCREAM. ISN'T THAT THE FREAKING POINT?!?! and they didn't change these opinions even by the end of the show. there is difference between being able to feel something for a character, even empathise with a character or their experiences and liking them. i have my own issues with some parts of only friends and the narrative. but freaking try to understand the narrative first and actually follow it without going into it with your own expectations of how characters should behave or be portrayed.

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@imamejmg]

if you would ask me last week, I would not have given you a rational answer, as I was still very upset about the death as it stands. Now I will say that the ending of the show was rushed. I will also state that there were flaws in the way Izzy’s his death was handled. After a rewatch I still feel another episode was needed to spend more time with the crew mourning Izzy after his comments of them being a family and giving Ed a chance to see that for himself. It would have been nice to have a space for Lucius and Pete’s wedding that was more separated from the tragedy of Izzy’s death and to better understand that leaving the crew to go after Ricky was a tough decision for Stede and Ed, but they had to do it. I'm also suspicious of Izzy’s burial since he was a sailor who died on his ship and should have been buried at sea. You are right in the writer's not fully comprehending how fundamentally change the attitude to Izzy would become with his character development. The truth is there are a myriad of reasons that people are upset everyone for their own conception be at age disability as a trans icon, which is really a fanfic thing, but valid. People have the right to be vocal about their feelings as much as you do. We live in a rational world, so assuming that everyone’s going to just acknowledges is a TV show and move on is unrealistic. And frankly, you know about this because you’re writing a whole thing about it as am I.

[@talistheintrovert]

I will say, ending being rushed is not the fault of the writers, who the fans are blaming, but MAX who did not give them enough time or money.

[@hypnoamber3248]

I LOVE this video! Thank you for saying all of this.

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@victoriaroberts4287]

I LOVED this video. Did it suck that Izzy died? Absolutely, but that was because the writers and actors did such a FANTASTIC job of flipping my opinion of the character on its head. Would I have liked a better death for Izzy? Absolutely, but it's kind of similar to your, "does anyone "deserve" to die comment. Death isnt fair, characters you want to live die and characters you want to die live The one thing is give about his dying speech was the, "they love you Ed" thing. I probably would've liked more proof of that in the series but there's only so much you can fit into 8 half an hour episodes. I found the happy ending jarring because I'm actually, thanks to other series I've watched, not used to a happy ending before the series itself comes to an end. It also didn't help me hearing stuff from the creator and fans going that if they got a season 3 that this "happy ending" they'd shown us wouldn't be happy for long, but writing fanfic has helped me process and see how it wouldn't work in the long run. Would anything I didn't quite like in Season 2 stop me from loving Season 2 or watching Season 3? Abso-BLOODY-not! And they can try (and fail) to pry my favourite scenes out of my hands. Thank you again for this video, I feel validated. ❤

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@musicalexistence1]

This was so much fun, I haven't even seen most of these shows, but I love talking about these kinds of representation conversations and your writing is so engaging and I'm always cracking up! Am I also now so wildly interested in Talis telling me about how American Psycho fucks? Yes I am! Am I also a little nervous for that psyche video to come out? Yeah, I mean, what else did I love as I was growing up that should have been a gay flag to my poor ignorant self 😂

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@roseball4176]

New here, watching this while procrastinating (and on 1.25x speed)… the number of LEFT TURNS… this is wild and full of really rad points and I’m happy to be hereeee

[@talistheintrovert]

thank you I have adhd and I like everybody to know 🤌

[@bluishblow]

I love the movement of moving the microphone away to shout

[@talistheintrovert]

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[@mse90]

I find that these conversations can be tricky a lot of times, and they're not as clear cut as they appear, but fandoms will strip any nuance from those conversations. Which is also kind of understandable, because TV shows are often about connecting to fictional characters, so people will naturally have a lot of feelings and potentially seek out opinions that confirm and reinforce said feelings. (Which is something that we do anyway in other aspects of our lives, but it's probably even more prominent in this space.) Tbh, I can't really add much to most of the specific fandom discussions here other than The 100, but with that show... Oh boy. I've actually had a lot of sympathy for the people who were upset about the Thing in The 100, but the whole show's fandom was Too Much. I'm not gonna say that it's definitely the worst fandom I've ever been in, but that's just because there were probably fandoms I only scratched the surface with that might have been worse at their core. But The 100 fandom? I've seen some of the worst takes and toxic behaviours up close and personal, and I'm pretty sure that it actively made me a worse person. 😂 (That being said, I was only in it until season 3, since it just got Too Much for me. Part of it was probably the fandom, but the show also did Too Much for my taste. I especially have a pet peeve for when a traumatized character I relate to gets piled on - *cough*certain Buffy episodes*cough* - and I was Tired. I've never been more relieved quitting a show, but I very much recognize that that's just due to my own feelings and taste.)

[@talistheintrovert]

understandable!! I almost dropped the show twice because of a combination of fandom stuff and the writing getting worse and a part of me just wishes I had 😭

[@RumpledRegina]

Your Clexa is my Swan Queen 😂 "The loudest fandoms are not always right" No shit 🤟

[@talistheintrovert]

🤣

[@trevorstewart1308]

powerful message and great video

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜

[@maymarchmay]

also talis just wanted to let you know your videos are very cool and based and you're teaching me media literacy when no one else does so thank you 👍👍👍

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@darthcass1210]

I think the thing that's really getting me about the ofmd is that there are things to be critical about the second season like the pacing definitely was weird (mostly due to budget cuts and being a shorter season so I don't think its really the writers' fault or anything) and like Archie is kind of a non-character that I didn't really care about the entire season and thus it's hard for me to be invested in the Jim/Archie ship compared to Olu/Jim from season 1 which did get a reasonable focus and felt compelling to me. but like the Izzy stuff was all pretty much the best written stuff in season 2 and his death doesn't make ofmd homophobic. Heck my problems and criticisms of season 2 don't make the show bad or homophobic either, they're just things I've noted about it. It really is wild to me how defensive people will get over what they like to the point of vehemently hating others differing takes. Like I saw someone on twitter talk about being genuinely upset and crying and asking what they should do just because....someone else publicly said they didn't like some visual novel. And here's the thing I am also a huge fan of this visual novel but my response was like "maybe calm down because other people not liking a thing you like isn't the end of the world." Anyway I got blocked for that hot take so who knows how this person is doing now.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@imaginareality]

I don't really engage in fandom, I usually just enjoy shows by myself. Which can feel really lonely at times but at least it protects me from all the toxicity of fandom spaces. (What I really want is to have a group of friends with similar interests to me but oh well...) Also, this video was great. I'm starting to realize that I shouldn't trust your taste in BLs but I should definitely listen to your opinions about media and fandom xD

[@LemonDove]

When I first binged s1-2 of the 100 I was into the chemistry and interesting dynamics of both bellarke and clexa (also everyone involved was very attractive to my bi eyes) and went to seek out fandom content for both. It was jarring to find different camps insisting that one ship was morally superior to the other and anyone who liked the other one was basically evil (this attitude was much stronger in one camp than the other though). Even before the big death, I thought it was concerning that a lot of shippers felt the need to make some sort of moral case for their ship instead of just admitting that one just clicked for them. Shipping should just be silly fun.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏

[@angellovecharm7759]

Extremely hyped for the psych video I loved that show

[@talistheintrovert]

💚💚💚

[@Nekochou]

I appreciate the empathy you displayed for Izzy fans who were devastated. I'm am one of them and our feelings are valid. And while I am upset and hurt I do not think it is a good idea to harass the showrunners (although I have seen no proof of this happening yet, but sadly knowing fandom spaces it is bound to happen). Izzy having to die for the show to move forward was... a take and we have fanfiction if we disagree. I indeed believe it was a stumble as you said, considering the history of how old gay men have been portrayed in media for general audiences. HOWEVER, one thing I have been disappointed by on tumblr is the attitudes of people who have nothing against the finale reacting to people who were upset with it. I have seen people being mean and dismissive a lot. Saying things like "if you are upset you were never a true fan" (like bitch I love this show I just disagree with this decision to kill this character off) or telling people to just get over it and stop whining. After a whole year of Izzy fans getting harassed online for liking the character (which by the way was also being called an abuser online all year for ridiculous reasons) it particularly stung.

[@ohitsjustNemo]

I watched this video yesterday and really appreciate a lot of where you came from on a lot of things. I only have personaly watched Our Flag Means Death but I loved hearing your perspective on Izzy's death. I do however, strongly disagree with you being so adamant about Ed and Izzy's relationship not being abusive. While I 100% agree that we should not villainize and diagnose characters and get caught up in that blocking us from seeing a character for everything they are. I think it's a complete brush off of how important that abusive dynamic is between the both of them. I'm a queer man who has been in my fair share of abusive relationships but also dole out my own abuse at times because of how afraid and hateful I was towards the world and other people. That is why Ed is abusive. I have also loved and truly still have love for some of my abusers because they felt like the only home and love I'd had ever known for so long. THAT is Ed and Izzy's dynamic. It is horrible toxic and terribly abusive from BOTH sides, but no one should brush them off as just that. Only seeing an abuser as one dimensional and just only a bad person is lacking on the depth that abusers often hold. (Bojack Horseman being a great/horrible example of an awful character we should hate but many people relate.) We need characters like Ed and like Izzy because many of us have struggled with that from both sides and it calls us out and gives us two characters that HEAL from that abuse which is incredibly beautiful and honestly was the biggest part of Izzy's death for me because they loved and hurt each other for so long and they didn't even ever truly heal together, but they go to say goodbye while they were both becoming better men and man I am almost in tears writing this because it was so intensely close to home for me from both sides I could feel my heart shatter just watching that scene. Anyways, very long comment and I thought about this a lot and wanted to share just in case other people may have interpreted it this way too. Thanks for the fantastic essay on all of these shows and I look forward to your next video!

[@talistheintrovert]

if we're holding Ed to account for his abusive behaviour in season 2, then we also need to hold Izzy to account for his abusive behaviour in season one.

[@localman8914]

yo i legit deleted tumblr and havent redownloaded it because i was so disappointed and disgusted by the chronically online and absolutely entitled response of the ofmd fandom to the finale. i love izzy and was sad to see he died but i thought it was beautiful and the best part of the finale. thanks for being normal about media 👍 it makes me happy to know that the internet isnt completely a dumpster fire.

[@very_nervous133]

One hour and eight minutes of ABSOLUTE PLEASURE

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜💜

[@skirtedgalleons]

Thank you for this. It's excellent.

[@talistheintrovert]

💜💜

[@RedMagius]

Ah, fandom. Tale as old as time. There are certainly things to critique about the OFMD finale- namely the budget being slashed and the episodes being chopped down from ten in season 1 to eight in season 2. I certainly felt that the ending was rushed, and all the characters suffered for it, but the crew worked with what they were given, and ultimately, I am satisfied. Lest we forget, this show is basically historical fanfiction, and Izzy got far better than if they stuck to what probably happened in reality. The fictional man unlearned a lifetime of toxic behaviour, was embraced into a new family, and got to live his best life. And yes, it was brief. Personally, I could go for a whole 'nother season of Izzy and Stede being the absolute bitchiest friends, but that's what fanfiction is for. And his death, while quick, was noble- he prioritized getting his family to safety, he said nothing because he didn't want to slow them down, and he ran as best he could to the beach on his horse leg with a bullet in his gut. Izzy died filled with love, protecting the people he loved, and that's a hell of a lot better than what other characters in other shows get. And even post-death, Izzy won't be forgotten. Ed and Stede are living _right next to his grave,_ at least for the time being. Should there be a season 3, I cannot imagine that his presence will not be felt. Maybe they'll get Con back for a reminiscent flashback? You never know, but if not, there are other characters that deserve their own fun and emotional arcs, and it would be silly to completely throw away your potential enjoyment of their stories just because the one you got attached to has ended.

[@talistheintrovert]

👏👏👏👏

[@dylanthompson5421]

Also, the choice of music at the end! BOP

[@talistheintrovert]

thank you, we love a sea shanty 🤌

[@dylanthompson5421]

@@talistheintrovert yassssss

[@thandondlovu5392]

I would love just a video about your thoughts on Only Friends please 🙏🙏🙏🥺🥺🥺

[@zer0luv]

The other thing that really bothers me is the bdsm vs abuse conversations I've seen in the BL fandoms. People romanticizing Vegas & Pete but condemning the couple in My Personal Weatherman.

[@user-luciddream]

only friends discourse is mindboggling to me. bl fans were not ready for a morally grey show that allows you to think for yourself instead of telling you but still, i hope the shows popularity can be a gateway into more nuanced portrayals of gay characters on gmmtv.

[@talistheintrovert]

🤌🤌🤌

[@Good-ol-Jaz]

I don't know if it's the fact that this flavour of discourse has happened multiple times to multiple fandoms this year alone (and thus has left me feeling grumpy and uncharitable); but I need people online to understand that media with conflict spicer than "oh no we ran out of oat milk!" in a Coffeeshop AU fic doesn’t translate to bad storytelling 😭

[@talistheintrovert]

💀💀💀

[@KB_Espy2009]

Dammit! Now I need a fabulous pirate hat. 🏴‍☠️

[@talistheintrovert]

I think everybody should own a fabulous pirate hat 🙏💜