Old Garden Roses: The Hybrid Perpetuals

The next type of rose I want to show you is the Hybrid Perpetual. This is a catch-all class of the repeat bloomers mostly bred in the 1800's from China and other old garden rose ancestry. Some of my very favorite roses come from this class: 'Baron Girod de l'Ain', 'Souvenir du Docteur Jamain' and others. Quite cold hardy as a group, with decent repeat flowering, and usually a very good perfume.
If you find these videos useful, there are a few little things you can do to help me out:
Have a look at our Amazon shop: www.amazon.com/shop/fraserval...
Follow our farm on Instagram: / fraservalleyrosefarm
Like us on Facebook: / fraservalleyrosefarm
Or better yet, subscribe to this KZbin channel: kzbin.info...
And for a place to indulge in random garden anarchy: / unrulyrosesociety
Photo credits:
Rosa 'Old Blush', gr. Chinensis, sect. Chinensis. Real Jardín Botánico, Madrid: Author A. Barra used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license
Empress Josphine: Author Pierre-Paul Prud'hon, public domain
Queen Victoria: Photographer Alexander Bassano, public domain
Royal Horticultural Society: Author Simon Harriyott, used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic license
Hughenden Manor: Author Hans A. Rosbach, used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license
Rose show: Author Dog Walking Girl, used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license
Notable Hybrid Perpetual Roses: Author Conard-Pyle Co.; Henry G. Gilbert Nursery and Seed Trade Catalog Collection used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic license
Rosa 'Frau Karl Druschki' in the Volksgarten in Vienna: Author Anna reg used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Austria license, link: creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Rose, General Jacqueminot: Author Bois, D.; Frederick Warne (Firm); Herincq, B.; Step, Edward; Watson, William, Public Domain
Rose Souvenir du Docteur Jamain: Author Dmitriy Konstantinov used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license, link: creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Rose ‘la Reine’: Author A. Barra used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license
Rosa ‘La Reine’at the Los Angeles County Arboretum: Author Stickpen, public domain
Rosa 'Baronne Prevost' at the Los Angeles County Arboretum: Author Stickpen, public domain
Rosa 'Paul's Early Blush', Híbridos reflorecientes, sect. Rosa. Real Jardín Botánico, Madrid: Author A. Barra used without changes under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license.

[@papalegba1313]

Really informative, thank you! I really find your channel to be the one of the most informative for a new rose gardener like me!

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

I'm so glad you've found the videos helpful. Thanks for the feedback.

[@taztasuki4228]

Thanks for the genetics!

[@elizabethramos6527]

My favorite rose Baron Girod D'lain. Mine died out a few years ago. Very hard to replace.

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

So true Elizabeth - and sad that so many of these historic roses are difficult to find on the market

[@kimberlyoboyle451]

I am so glad someone else feels the way I do about the rose shows! It's embarrassing, I take more pride in my "mixed border" garden than I do in producing "perfect show quality roses". I think this is the difference between most older growers and the younger (in the rose world anyone under age 50 is young): this focus on the "perfect" spot free leaf and bloom (sprayed), vs the minor defects tolerated in organic growing and shrub roses (roses without "high centers"). I have studied historical roses extensively but "I can't get no respect" because I have never won "Queen of show" at my club! ( I am exaggerating, they do respect my knowledge but I am seen as quirky and rebellious lol). There is a snobbery, not in a bad way, but there are definite "cliques" between folks in Hybrid Tea circles and OGR lovers. You know, I hadn't realized that the Victorians are to blame for some of this. I just thought it was a natural progression "coming of age" between Joséphine's era and modern times. This "control freak" attitude, straight lines, rigid conformation to a standard, and reigning in of morals/values makes sense as a product of Victorians! I never realized there was such a difference but you are right about Joséphine and her sensuality and this was reflected in the Gallicas and her gardens. I never realized before why I had such a love for that era than of subsequent ones. Wow! This is funny: Baron Girod De L'ain had always been on my "worst" list!! (First seen in the Clair Matin book) I look at the rose and I'm sorry but to my eye the white edging looks like a fault somehow! I am being a snob lol! I know it is a well-loved flower so I am the oddball here. Any time I see white petal-bases or that telltale white petal streak all I see is the China influence and I immediately turn away from it. Many (especially the guys??) of my rose club grow their roses "battery style"- straight, strict rows, precision pesti/fungi-cide applications, as close to perfection as possible. Shows are a sport for them, a real competition. The plus side is they attract attention to the hobby when held in Public venues. Thank goodness for Gertrude Jekyll and Vita Sackville-west for their rebellious rejection of those Victorian straight lines. Also for David Austin for demonstrating the rose as a "shrub" and just another beautiful plant for the garden. People get intimidated by the perfection of roses at shows, but as the ARS says "A right rose for the right location", there is something that should be able to make everyone happy!!

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

One more little dig at the rose exhibitions: it's the wrong way to find a rose that you'd want to grow. Disembodied and out of context - you can't see the overall grace and presence of the shrub, or its garden quirks and foibles. My local rose societies are made up of wonderful people - and they've been quietly tolerant (even supportive) of my opinions. Like you, I see these shows' usefulness as a public event to draw attention to the hobby - and my only word of advice to the rose clubs is to keep the newbie in mind. The VRS does a great job of hosting free seminars at their event - aimed at introducing visitors to introductory rose growing topics. I chuckled with what you said about 'Baron Girod' - we all have our peculiar biases in the garden... I have to try hard to like any plant with yellowish foliage (even 'Commandant B') or with strong variegation.

[@kimberlyoboyle451]

Same- who wants a chlorotic or something that looks virused? I do like glaucus leaves though (especially on hostas :))

[@randomgenerator-lp5yl]

I loved your Mini-rant. It's very interesting for me, as a new young person interested in growing roses! new subscriber here!

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

So happy to welcome you to the hobby!

[@nishawong5565]

Thank you, very interestingly informative...! 🥀🌹🥀🦋

[@dawnchesney-turner9602]

Thank you for all the work you do. I really appreciate the videos!

[@hannahadlergontard7057]

I just add Baron de Girod de L’Ainn in my litoral garden! Waiting for the first flower.

[@graydollar2363]

I have just planted a Souvenir du Docteur Jamain in my garden in France. I have planted it on a north facing wall which only gets limited sun. So I am hoping it will like this location. Really enjoying your videos.

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

I'll cross my fingers for you! I've tucked 'Souv. du Docteur Jamain' in a few part-shade locations to see how it does. Slow to establish so far, but the flowers are incredible!

[@kevinjamesparr552]

I had problems with this lovely red rose with blackspot and infected most of my garden .Ripped it out after 4 years sadly and replaced at least 30 rose plants .No blackspot now

[@FireflyOnTheMoon]

@@kevinjamesparr552 I have terrible blackspot in the UK with Dr Jamain also. I'm not sure whether to keep it.

[@missv5620]

I wanted a few old varieties of roses for the garden and this video has been very helpful. I’m going to get Paul Neyron, it’s beautiful!

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Paul Neyron is wonderful. Feed and water well for *massive" blooms. He's a little susceptible to blackspot, and quite vertical in habit, so don't hesitate to prune and clean up as needed.

[@garylawlor2288]

Glad I watched to the end as I found that very interesting. Love the little extra bits at the end, proper nuggets ✌

[@teddibrownbrown3620]

Enjoyed your mini rant, I was troubled with the garden in front of my home. I Wasn't sure if mixing plants was would work and low and behold here is a video showing a beatiful planting of mixed flours. I'm a fan !

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

I'm glad your considering mixing things up with your roses - I've seen it done more often these days, and with really stunning results.

[@annebeck2208]

Rose competitions are a bit crazy, because someone always wins and many lose, yet that gets into our rose buying habits. We look to influencers to decide which roses to buy, when it is better to look at our goals and find rose that fit. You certainly do a great job of helping me find rose that fit my goals...even if some are Hybrid Teas (where I just ignore less than perfect foliage.)

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Thanks Anne!

[@yuanhu7528]

It is interesting to know that repeat-blooming is a recessive trait genetically.

[@diversegardener392]

Here where I live we had a rare 7 day very rare snow event in San Antonio, Texas and other cold spells along the way. My point is all my roses even those plants that never bloom are blooming. I mean my rose garden finally looks like a rose garden. I have pink, light pink, deep red, white, yellow, reddish purple, peach and orangy colors. I would like to know why? Not that I'm complaining but I'm overwhelmed! I do feed and take care of all my plants but I want to give credit to you and other gardeners who encourage the type of care plants need. I'm so happy but at the same time sad 😥because my mother who passed away 8-2-20 didn't get to see her garden so full of flowers I can't list them all. Thanks in advance.

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Thanks Arthur. That's so interesting. The vast majority of rose species are northern temperate climate shrubs - meaning there's a strong influence of these genetics in modern hybrids. I haven't heard too much about a chill response roses but I know that centifolias & albas generally perform poorly in areas without any winter dormancy. It could be that the cold "synchronized" the strong first bloom of your roses (when otherwise, some of the more precocious roses will stay semi-active and get ahead of the others). You might also consider if there's more abundance of soil moisture in comparison to other years, or if your spring weather conditions have been more favorable. In any case, I'm just happy to hear you're having a great spring with your mother's garden.

[@bowiefb]

Fantastic series!

[@janie2shoes537]

Thanks for sharing !!

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

My pleasure!

[@nacht98]

brilliant!

[@farmershonor]

Loved the mini rant and mini history lesson on how we arrived at the grand, formal gardens vs the informal garden. I look forward to all your videos. You are an excellent teacher... thank you soo much for the good work you are doing and for you passion for roses. I learn something new EVERY TIME I open your videos.

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Thanks so much for the feedback Donna

[@dennistaft7868]

So I searched rose baron girod de l'ain and your online site was on the first page. How cool is that?

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Very! Thanks, I didn't know that

[@roontunes]

That was very interesting and what a coincidence, you favour the Baron Girod de L'Ain rose. I'm planning and rebuilding a garden and doing my homework on roses. I've got about £200-00 worth on its way but I was very struck by the Baron Girod rose and am in two minds. I've inherited a few old roses here and one in particulat shoots up about 6 feet, has very fragrant deep red blooms and stumbles on till autumn producing about 4 or 5 blooms at a time. the lower part of the plant is of course just a wall of foliage and canes as thick as my finger. It is a bush, definitely not a climber. As you seem to have direct experience with the Baron Girod rose can I ask you. What is it's growth habit, I don't want a similar large bush with sparse blooms on the ends of 4 or 5 or even 6 foot canes :-) Even if I'm nuts about the colouration and fragrance. I can buy this here but the online comments on it's growth habit are sparse, even from the sellers. Would you mind doing a little commentary on it, or do you have any video or pictures of it in situ. Thanks again for a great channel and for your generosity in sharing your experience.

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Lovely flower, but definitely an awkward habit (and susceptible to foliar problems) in my garden.

[@Alfakkin]

Last month, the powdery mildew was so strong on my 2 Baron de Girod that even the products didn't work. Some new shoots were compromised, and I was forced to cut them. Now the leaves are better, and there are new shooting and some litter buds. I think this beautiful rose is the most susceptible of the powdery mildew in my garden. But still a wonderful old 🌹 rose ❤.

[@Cindy-ng6sx]

Can you do a video on the David Austin Roses? And your thoughts on them

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Hi Cindy. Thanks. I may have to grow a few more Austins before I pass judgement. I do love 'Abraham Darby' - beast that he is, and 'William Shakespeare 2000' makes a decent replacement for 'Charles de Mills' for those who want repeat flowers and less susceptibility to foliage disease. Not a criticism at all, but Austin's breeding program is so active that it's hard to keep up. I don't usually rush to plant the newest varieties to market - preferring to hear feedback from other gardeners and see them mature in the garden (when possible) before I decide. Austin replaces (supersedes) their older roses more quickly than I'm accustomed to. By the time I've made up my mind, they're already promoting a newer, "improved" version of the same color and habit.

[@nihatsavmaz6677]

Very informative but to detailled for me! 11.7.24

[@mickey5779]

I doubt HP's would be tip hardy in Alaska, lolol, if they so much as have r. chinensis in them. The creator of the Agriculture Canada roses abandoned the notion of crossing hardy rugosas with r. chinensis variants after a good decade of trials, because cane hardiness was substantially compromised in the diploid progeny (50-80% winterkill) as well as disease resistence. Only 4 vintage varieties remain of those crosses today: Bonavista, Elmira, Moncton and Sydney. Hybrid Perpetuals are no different in that respect, considering their chinensis contributor thrives and survives on Vancouver Island, lol. In her book, ' The Canadian Explorer Roses', (dedicated to all northern rose gardeners), Dr. Felicitas Svejda writes that... "winter survival depends on the cessation of growth" and not the continued, perpetual or ever-blooming trait involving r. chinensis. Further stating that she "found better ways to obtain hardy repeat-flowering roses (on the tetraploid level), which became the forerunners of a new type of garden rose". Having said that, I simply adore the romantic history and looks of HP's. My experience with Frau Karl Drushki and Baronne Prevoste demands that they require a fair amount of winter protection and moderate pruning to look their best. If you could recommend some HP's that you feel are perhaps the hardiest of the bunch for zone 4/5, I'm open to experimenting with that suggestion 🌹🌱

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Thanks. Great info! I saw that ad for HPs in Alaska and thought maybe they were pushing it a bit. There are only a small handful that are generally listed as zone 4, more in zone 5 - so except for the milder coast areas of Alaska you'd have trouble justifying it.

[@denirn8725]

Jason, can you suggest an “easy read “ book (as easy as possible) or two books, on the History of Roses? Maybe a source which a novice could start to learn how Roses developed such a following and how they are classified too?

[@111Lky]

thank you so much, I enjoy how thorough your videos. And ofcourse it is awesome, to see the whole plant and not just the flowers. I have a Paul Neyron, own root, doesn't seem to be taking off at all. It is in partial shade- could that be the reason? Or is PN not a very strong plant in general?

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Paul Neyron grows a bit funny for me - quite precocious, sending up big blooms even on small plants. It hates staying in a pot for too long. In the landscape it wants a good sunny site and responds well to fertilizer or manure.

[@111Lky]

@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Thank you, I will move it to a more sunnier spot. It gets morning sun and then shade right now.

[@filipasilva9531]

Hi there, I enjoy your videos I could watch you all day talking about roses. I have a question. Can you please tell me what you think about a Tom Wood Rose?( I'm waiting for one). Thank you so much

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Thanks Filipa. I haven't grown it but it looks lovely.

[@filipasilva9531]

I didn't check yet, but do you sell roses?

[@heatherstephens9295]

👍

[@Alfakkin]

I agree with you about "the funeral" part...I much prefer natural, historical shape in the way the plants grow...I don't like "sticks" of roses

[@kristinethompson3028]

Forgive me for correcting the pronunciation of “damask.” Emphasis is on the first syllable, DAM-uhsk. Not da-MASK. Trivial, of course. A rose by any other name…

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

I wouldn't get too hung up on it - pronunciation varies regionally. That said, I'd never pronounce the city of Damascus (from which the rose derives its name) as DAMascus. In both British english and American english, the emphasis is on the second syllable.

[@kristinethompson3028]

@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Sorry. I looked up the pronunciation in the dictionary and that is what I found. I should have investigated further. As you say regional pronunciations vary and I am very sorry I even posted the comment. No offense was intended. Please accept this apology.

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

None taken at all! As long as we all know the word I'm trying to say, I don't mind butchering it a bit in the saying. ;-)

[@lullasierra1]

Could you print out the names of the roses you mentioned in this video? Thx.

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Thanks... I included them as best I could in the captioning. Select the CC button at the bottom of the video, and do let me know if any are missing or unclear.

[@debravogt7139]

I am trying to start.a line of rose oils for facial care. I will eventually expand to lavender, etc. I am making infused oils. I have to grow in pots. Any suggestions?

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

Hi Debra. I'd go for something repeat blooming and compact (sort of rules out some of the older roses) but still fragrant for the infusions. I wonder if something like 'Heirloom' (because of the strong scent) might work. 'Fragrant Cloud', 'Ebb Tide' or 'Honey Perfume' are other suggestions. If you're set on the old garden roses, maybe 'Jacques Cartier'. But basically something you like the fragrance of, and will grow well in your limited space.

[@stevenseverance3692]

If You Want to see a really "♥️ Red 🌹 Rose - Try Growing"Scarlett Knight " I was able to get one about 20yrs ago but alas I haven't been able to find one for my"New Yard/Home/Rose Garden ". See I bought it through a company that has Gone out of Business (Vintage Garden's in California). It's an Old Grandiflora Rose 🌹 Bush I first saw it in a Rose Book 📖 but alas I would Love 💕 It if You could track it down for Me. I would be Very Thankful. Sincerely Yours 🤠 Mr Severance, "The Cake 😋🍰🎂🥳🎉🎈🥂🎊 Man". "

[@TheJohnGent1]

What are your thoughts on growing the American Beauty hybrid perpetual?

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

I haven't grown it personally. The hybrid perpetuals can be a mixed bag for disease susceptibility. HMF lists this one as susceptible to mildew, rust and black spot, so I'd just keep that in mind. If you're in a more arid climate, that might not end up as a problem, but in my moist climate I'd have to think hard about it.

[@TheJohnGent1]

@@FraserValleyRoseFarm Thank you.

[@Obhimukto]

Hi , I am trying to decide among Reine Des Violettes, Paul Newron and Souvenir de Dr. jamaine. I am in Connecticut, zone 7a. Please recommend a hybrid perpetual rose for me .

[@FraserValleyRoseFarm]

All three are nice, but I'd pick Reine des Violettes for something pretty trouble-free. The other two are a little finicky.