Old School BJJ vs Modern BJJ

I asked BJJ expert Stephan Kesting to compare Brazilian Jiu Jitsu footage from early 20th century all the way to modern days.
Check out Stephan Kesting's channel here: / @stephankesting
#BJJ #martialarts #MMA
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey KZbin channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my KZbin channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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► • Aikido vs MMA - REAL ...
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[@MartialArtsJourney]

Check out Stephan Kesting's channel here: www.youtube.com/@StephanKesting

[@kevionrogers2605]

I agree with what he says about early Jiu-jitsu versus current trends around 4:50, because I got my black belt in Jiu-jitsu back in 2000 and it was mainly Vale Tudo style rolling and closed guard. Then started learning Aikikai Aikido & Judo in New Orleans Louisiana it was a mile from my apartment around 2010 then when I moved to Birmingham Alabama and started training at Gracie Barra in Pelham it was more about leg locks, lapel guard, worm guard, which wasn't really a thing from 1990 to 2010 when I was more GJJ oriented in my grappling. Also another thing is when I was teaching the Gracie Self Defense curriculum they thought I was teaching Japanese Jujutsu and not BJJ, so the curriculum and experience has vastly changed through the 30 plus years I been practicing.

[@drew1753]

GB is where you went for leg lock training at the time?! Things must have changed a lot because I had to leave GB to start getting any serious leg lock training.

[@kevionrogers2605]

@drew1753 no its not where I went to train it; I knew it from prior from training Sambo & Submission Wrestling in the 1990s to 2000s. What the current entries & setups they are doing is what is new, especially the younger folks and those who are training to compete. I went because a coworker asked me to, plus they had a Judo program, which I was still doing with some older defensive tactics instructors. The owner knew me from high school when we used to compete against each other in Judo & BJJ. What ended up happening is that I was asked to take over the Judo program and help with the wrestling since I have USA Judo coaching certs and Alabama High School Wrestling certs as a coach. When Covid shutdown happened, I stopped coaching at GB, but I still coach high school wrestling, then professionally CPI & and MOAB, which are used in hospitals & corrections. I used to do spear, but it's not used where I live.

[@ChocolatesAndChai]

I love that Stephan has no qualms about calling out douchebags in BJJ while simultaneously being able to acknowledge how good their BJJ is.

[@StephanKesting]

Thank you very much!

[@ChocolatesAndChai]

@@StephanKesting Thank YOU! I’ve been following you for almost 15 years now!

[@doubleb222able]

Ironically, I've had a few interactions with Kestings as well. First off, his jiu-jitsu instructions, I did enjoy it, but it's very obvious he would watch an Erik Paulson I instructional and just regurgitate the same info and put it on his channel for his content. Don't get me wrong, I've considered taking the Danaher systems and doing the same thing, but it just feels wrong. My issue with Kesting is his over inflated ego and his arrogance. While he does a pretty good job with his character that he presents on his KZbin channel. I saw more and more of his actual personality during the last few years during the stressful times people were under, and Kesting would often talk down to people being extremely condescending, disrespectful, and rude.

[@StephanKesting]

@@doubleb222ablesorry I hurt your feelings as you were spreading anti-vaxx gibberish and wild conspiracy theories

[@LadybugLaughter]

@@StephanKestingI never get tired of you calling out pseudoscience and conspiracy theories.

[@camiloiribarren1450]

It’s always great to learn from other teachers and explain history and techniques in depth. Thanks so much for this

[@baseline6542]

I think having fundamentals is never going to get old

[@wagutoxD]

Great colab! Stephan is a great guy, really deserving of respect! Cheers!

[@johnkoven3019]

So cool to see Stephan Kesting on your channel!

[@nicholaslandolt8912]

Whether its Martial Arts, Music, Technology, or pretty much anything I guess. We Stand on the Shoulders of Giants. Techniques from older generations have been refined, mastered, and even inspired brand new moves that people back in the day would have probably thought were impossible. I love seeing new adaptations and advancements in martial arts. And cannot wait to see what the future holds. Never give up on your journeys my friends

[@culhwch4168]

Not music

[@SergieOP]

Hi Rokas, great video as always. I'd love to see a video about traditional Japanese Ju Jitsu.

[@bolieve603]

Rubber guard is incredibly pervasive in no-gi sub-only. No one plays high guard the way they did in the early 2000s

[@MartialArtsViking]

Super interestint video as always rokas🔥

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks!

[@dereknueveuno]

Very good view. Agreed with everything said. You have to be aware of the new meta’s of grappling but don’t have to be an expert but aware of you want to keep up and thrive.

[@thunderkatz4219]

As someone who does Japanese jiujitsu and Okinawan karate as my main I love these type of videos

[@Localhero727]

Impressive idea for a video 🤯

[@SaltAndLight1027]

Nice Stephan! Great to see him here

[@sinfinite7516]

He didn’t mention combat jiu jitsu aka jiu jitsu with palm strikes popularized by Eddy Bravo

[@intricate9666]

Great editing

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Thanks!

[@DJLurkerHC]

Beautiful vid!

[@Jesse1837]

7:54 is TOOOOOO funny! And yea, too tru!

[@bodhitree33]

"Troubleshooting on the fly." It certainly is.

[@dhalav]

yeah Stephan with the Say Uncle book in the background.

[@gailvalleymartialarts]

Maybe you can do an interview with one of the Valente Brothers on this subject, that would be interesting. Especially since this interview here focused very much on the context of grappling matches.

[@cfyioohhhuookhh5129]

When are you going to publish the mma fight video where you use akido?btw nice video

[@ripthejacker6020]

EXCELLENT video!!!

[@iwantagoodnameplease]

German suplex at 6:00! Dangerous

[@haraldodunkirk1432]

Cool topic. What struck me is how different Roger Gracie’s ADCC run was to recent DDS style ADCC- Roger’s style, despite his dominance and achievements, looked almost sloppy compared to systematic tightness of today. Lots of Roger in turtle etc. Same with Rickson sport footage.

[@okiesumos]

Definitely agree. post DDS ADCC no-gi is a new world. Attacking from Open Guard is a big part of the new model, even in ADCC where you may take a negative point.

[@Ed7501]

Hey Rokas. I learn a lot from Stephan Kesting's channel. You know who you should interview/collab with next? Roy Dean... BJJ and Aikido black belt who has used Aikido in his BJJ matches successfully. I watched his "Art of the Wrist Lock" instructional the other day and he is very high level.

[@daniellifshaz8419]

Nice video 👍 first btw

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Hi there. Thanks btw!

[@miqvPL]

I had a half assed wrestling sparring against a bjj dude and he convinced me I'm not smart enough for bjj. It's not something a pure hobbyist can get good at, especially when I have other combat sports to train. Gonna have to swallow a hard pill and just admit I'm garbage at ground game and focus on striking with a dash of judo, since those skills have more application in real life situations. Cool video though, I might not be smart enough to understand the techniques but I'm still mesmerized by all that

[@gladiumcaeli]

Not true, you could get good enough at it, here's a few things for you to keep in mind while ground fighting. 1. Grip fighting is very important, grips fighting also includes using your legs to hook, post, frame, push, pull, etc. 2. Don't let people control your head, it becomes a lot harder to fight if they control your head. 3. If you are on the bottom it's important to not be flat, try to stay on your side or angled some way. 4. Even if you have difficulty remembering positions or flow, try drilling (positional drills, escapes, guard passing) to get muscle memory and speed. Even if your mind doesn't remember your muscles will (like riding a bike, or walking, as a toddler we have trained so much on how to walk that we do it automatically now, same deal with drilling position, escapes, guard pass). Just like John Danahar (?) Says first year focus on learning escapes, when you get good at escaping, you can attack so much more because you wouldn't be worried about getting stuck underneath someone, even if you mess up you'll just escape and reset.

[@miqvPL]

@@gladiumcaeli thanks for the advice, I will consider it. I'm still rookie at any sort of grappling and not sure if I want to go for it, especially rolling. Like any other man should- I just want to know how to fight to protect myself and others, and rolling on the ground in a real fight is very dangerous so for now I'm putting focus to fighting while standing, so striking+judo

[@rendarecorrentecomopcoes2336]

Helio Gracie used to say that a dumb man is usually a better fighter than the intelligent man. His theory was that on the heat of the moment, the smart man will overthink things, while the dumb man just reacts. I remember reading more than one interview where he said exactly this.

[@Xzontyr]

I want to do nothing but throw fireballs when I hear about Gordon Ryan. I respect him, but he is the most devious of fighters with how he does things, and is a great example of how Bjj can evolve. I say this because at the Sambo gym I trained, many of the advanced guys could fold and get most of the advanced bjj guys around town. They all however know that Gordon would put them all to shame. He nullifies every strength we would have, has incredible defense, and goes against all of our offensive principles and still wins with ease. He makes me cringe, but he is a real hero for bjj, regardless of what anyone says. I would love to see him compete in the ufc someday. He's what the bjj community needs, before it fades away due to techniques that make things harder for fighters than easier.

[@Jesse-qk6wn]

This was interesting

[@justin8865]

That was actually a good modern take on bjj. Wish your other yt buddies would take note. "Instead of yet another pUlgaUrd iS bAd"

[@Smilequve]

I wanna see you have a real fight with someone using wood sword. I expect some injuries.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

As an outsider I do not understand why they would create moves that require a Gi to work. The only time that people wear a Gi is during training and sport. Do those skills transfer to street clothes?

[@RandyLeftHandy]

Maybe if they're wearing a carhart jacket

[@ryanbarclay7939]

Good for a variety of jackets, thick shirts, etc. Definitely more useful in colder climates vs warm. The thing is, gi training is better f9r defense than offense. You have to be good at clearing g your opponent's grips on you to attack or escape. No gi is better for offense, as you don't have "handles" to help you throw or submit the guy.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

​@@ryanbarclay7939Thanks for responding. That makes sense. It kinda makes me nervous anytime that I hear that a martial art is training moves that do not work in a real world environment.

[@MaaZeus]

No people do not wear Gi but people do usually wear clothes and go back far enough in time maybe even body armor where are ledges you can grab.

[@HGFED321]

The same problem goes with no gi, most people aren't walking around all oiled up almost naked. Real life has a lot more grips than in no gi (even t-shirts can be gripped with the right techniques).

[@prodLZ.]

good

[@TheMaverickjc29]

Video is too short for this topic Rokas, wish you could upload the full interview or maybe gather with Stephen and do a real live conversation.

[@jdacata5126]

I guess you got brainwashed and started calling it Kano jiujitsu like all the BJJ guys who don’t know the history. Kano jiujitsu AKA Judo 😂

[@MartialArtsJourney]

Not very polite comment I'd say. Look at the history, the further back you go the more it was referred to as Kano's Jiu Jitsu even among students. Judo became a common term only in later stages, and the video isn't a modern one.

[@jdacata5126]

That’s complete revisionism, He called it Judo in like 1882, Kano Jiujitsu was a European rendition of jiujitsu manuals circulating that Kano didn’t even endorse (and yes there is photographic evidence of this, it’s an English written quote by Kano) You can read the book “The way of Judo” by John stevens that actually looks into the history and facts.

[@jdacata5126]

It’s not to crap on the entire video you made. It’s good and I enjoy the channel but it’s very common in BJJ and I’m sure you have experience this in Aikido as well this mythic element to the teachers or founders but none of it can be verified. The saving grace of Kano was the man was an intellectual and educator so it’s very easy to verify the claims and his development of Judo.

[@giovannimendezelizondo5902]

Of all the things you can do you decide to be a douchbag. Shame on you

[@JEFFMAN90]

​@@jdacata5126 kano copied techniques from Japanese Ju Jitsu.

[@fr0styyproductionsmc]

:0

[@ErnieDouglas]

While I agree that old school BJJ for the most part doesn't hold up that mu j to modern BJJ.. modern BJJ on on it's own has many problems as far a reall street or battlefield combat with zero rules. no rules MMA.. or Pride rules MMA. Body slams or head spiking on concrete will still make a whole lot of modern BJJ guys let go of their tight control positions in fear of terrible head/back/etc.injury or even death. As well.. knees to the head on the ground and footstomp BJJ defense along with big slams to the the mat made every woerld class bjj guy, grappler or wrestler let go of their bjj control. Won't matter if it's Ryan or Garcia, they ain't gonma be butt scooting on concrete, pavement or gravel as well. All rules limiting sport martial arts.. can still today really breakdown against slams, throws, stomps, gronded head kkcks, knees to the head.. evem from an inexperienced combatant with simply decent strenght and agility. None of the best BJJ or grappling guys today could play their same game and have the same level of effectiveness while being punshed, need stomped in the face or throw or body slammed while attemd submission moves.

[@giovannimendez4672]

I'm tired of hearing this argument. Not everyone train to fight in the streets. If you get injured fighting an average guy u can't train anymore for a while and it's just stupid

[@HGFED321]

Firstly, that isn't a concern for civilized people. Secondly, who do you think is more apt to adapt grappling for a combat situation, you or a multi-world champion black belt? Anyone with this type of argument should at least take one experimental class in bjj and ask the teacher for a roll, then you'll know better what jiu-jitsu would look like in the streets (where 99% are not even white-belts).

[@giovannimendez4672]

@HGFED321 completely agreed. I remember seen a video of Miyaos butt scooting in a match and everyone crying that doesn't work on the streets and he will get destroyed in a real match. You see the Miyaos judo throwing Jeff Chan in his channel you see the high level grappling with a good mma fighter, it's mind blowing how people think a high level bjj grappling can't defend itself of an average joe

[@bolieve603]

You're right, no one would play the same game they use for grappling competitions in a street fight. Look at how fluidly many guys are moving back and forth between fighting and grappling these days, that means it's a game plan decision and not a skill set problem. Many professional grapplers would excel if you somehow could make a rules-free fighting league, just as they do in MMA

[@bolieve603]

One more thing, until you do a kickboxing round with a grappler followed by an mma round you'll never understand how much it changes things.

[@MoonsaultMadLad]

Stephan is so well spoken. He can explain exactly what he's thinking and his knowledge of BJJ is incredibly diverse. He seemed to know a lot about the old styles, too.

[@maxzhao8331]

Amazing collab!!! I always was a fan of Stephan Kesting! Great guy and extremely knowledgeable!

[@robertkiss8282]

That was a good breakdown and a fun discussion on the topic. I must admit my knowledge isn't that great on BJJ but this was clearly explained and I felt I definitely gained from watching. Nice work as always!

[@tomzdog]

I saw a video circa 1920 of a Japanese guy using the lockdown, look into it.

[@ghengiskhan9308]

A youtuber called chadi did a video on it he god a pdf of old ju jutsu scrolls from Japan and in those scrolls they were demonstrating rubber guard and lock down

[@chrisdudedurian1305]

The best example of old school getting beaten by modern bjj would be Eddie Bravo vs Royler Gracie. Eddie Submitted him and dominated him twice while Royler was left floundering without an answer

[@Gunnar-Peterson]

Wow what a trip down memory lane, I've trained with some of the people mentioned in the video(Robert Drysdale and Eddie Bravo)

[@caprichante]

GORDON RYAN is a big Marcelo Garcia

[@kylerrasnick]

Audio cuts out in the last 30 seconds or so.

[@OfficialStreamSagaTv]

Induku (Squats) - 3 sets of 15 repetitions** - Stand with your feet shoulder-width apart and squat down, keeping your back straight and chest up. - Rise back up to the starting position, engaging your glutes and thighs. 3. **Umgubho (Jump Squats) - 3 sets of 10 repetitions** - Perform squats as before, but explosively jump up as you reach the top of the movement. - Land softly and immediately transition into the next jump. 4. **Ibheko (Push-ups) - 3 sets of 10 repetitions** - Get into a plank position with your hands shoulder-width apart and lower your body until your chest nearly touches the ground. - Push back up to the starting position, keeping your body in a straight line. 5. **Insimbi (Plank) - 3 sets of 30-second holds** - Get into a push-up position and lower yourself onto your forearms. - Keep your body straight and hold this position for the specified time.

[@meatheadcanada]

Great video! Stephan I were teammates when I lived in Vancouver. He's been a big support for my Jiu-Jitsu journey.

[@prodigypenn]

Gordon from when he was first starting to become well known is about the same size as Marcelo if not even slightly smaller

[@slick222]

reasonable, good interview

[@thedailypounce]

Awesome video. Thanks!

[@manuel-ow5bf]

You are right in everything 😂😂.

[@rojcewiczj]

One major issue with the post-modern criticism of pre-modern martial arts is that the critic tends to misunderstand the paradigm of pre-modern martial arts. Saying "this technique wont work" should be changed to "within a modern movement paradigm this technique wont work". I lived in China for about two years to research traditional martial arts and what I found was that traditional pre-modern martial arts only work if you master the pre-modern movement paradigm. What is the pre-modern movement paradigm? The pre-modern paradigm is a dynamic model, techniques must be done while your body is in motion, while your body is free to move and your weight is at play. The modern paradigm is a static model and is based on base, position, range etc. and all calculation based on modern scientific static models of dynamic systems (think the static model of the solar system) So something like Aikido or early judo/jitsu which is based on a pre-modern paradigm should not be analyzed according to the modern one. Aikido and early judo techniques are men't to be done from a freely moving body, their source of power being the free weight and momentum. If you never learn to do your techniques from body movement then you cant apply pre-modern methods. This might all seem abstract but I hope you consider what I'm saying. Thank you.

[@ayurvology3334]

Kesting is smart about jiujitsu, but common sense left the room with him in real life...He was spouting the whole 6 feet, masking and vaccines. totally clueless