Old School Grudge Match: New M70 Winchester vs. New M700 Remington!

Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! We test drive 21st Century versions of the 20th Century's two top bolt-action hunting rifles, the Winchester M70 and Remington M700. Join us in this latest episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors!
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@grob25]

Finally! A real range day on video. I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the range and had all of these problems at once. I know you have too. Thank you for the transparency. A lot of new shooters think that everyday at the range should be perfect because, that is what they saw on the internet.

[@Traveler-po3oe]

I'm in my late 60s. I grew up shooting both the model 70 and the 700. I have taken game with both. I'm a retired L/E and have instructed many people with both pistol and rifle. I purchased a Model 700 in 1981. It was manufactured in 1979( I purchased it new). One day at the range, I closed the bolt and my rifle discharged. I thought that I must have had my finger on the trigger, so I fed another round. The rifle discharged again. I contacted Remington regarding this issue. Remington told me that the discharge was due to poor maintenance on my weapon. I place the 700 in the back of my gun safe for almost 20 years. After watching the results of numerous law suites against Remington. I replaced the trigger with a very good trigger. No additional discharges have occurred. I love my 700, but I also love my Model 70.

[@shaunzimmerman661]

walker triggers. if they are adjusted by someone who doesnt know what thry are doing this will happen and if u go to light! mostly is was because trigger was made lighter and at the same time it makes less sear engagement. u need to adjust both!

[@BourbonPrepper]

​@@shaunzimmerman661There's 3 screws on the Walker trigger. And you're right - they all need to be tuned correctly. But I'll take a Mike Walker trigger over the XMP, but a $120 Timney beats them all.

[@BabaBlueJay]

I'm a Winchester guy, I root for Remington to return to their glory days but I am afraid that they still have some work to earn the trust back.

[@keithprinn720]

Both became terrible versions fact, some of the latest 70s have pre 64 action I read. So much more than accuracy. Owning a classic wood stock version is like owning a classic car, guitar or similar. Especially a hand me down from a family member.

[@dereckbyrddb]

Anybody having audio issues intro played but that was it

[@gavinlybarger8056]

Same

[@heerkrupp64]

Same here.

[@dbuckner902010]

Same first 15 seconds was great but nothing after

[@thomashaley7657]

I backed up, started over, then it was fine.

[@wintermachine]

I jumped way forward then brought it back to 2 min and it worked

[@mtnhunter5578]

I have used a Rem 700 .308 in Iraq and Afghanistan and it worked quite well. I currently own a Rem 700 30/06 for hunting and it is extremely accurate. I also own and hunt with a CRF Model 70, having used both extensively I would choose the Model 70 hands down every time...its called the Rifleman's Rifle for a reason.

[@Gunsandbunsmma]

Stick with the 700 for reliability

[@mtnhunter5578]

@@Gunsandbunsmma LMAO...now thats funny.

[@Northspy49]

Agreed, I really like both models, but I give the nod to the M70.

[@BourbonPrepper]

​@Gunsandbunsmma Remington Arms no longer exists. This is a brand new startup from Roundhill Group LLC and they own the name; which is now RemArms LLC. And nobody I know moved from here in Ilion down to LaGrange GA so it's all new employees fresh out of machining schools in GA.

[@NCWoodlandRoamer]

@@mtnhunter5578yes, very funny!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

The audio cuts out at about 39-seconds in, but resumes a minute later, so hang in there. The missing audio is my warning about the disappointing rifle performance coming up.

[@tomschmolcke7134]

I bought a slightly used Tikka t3x in 6.5 creedmoor, it's the stainless with the simple synthetic tikka stock, which is very solid, it's action is butter smooth, I easily adjusted the trigger to 2.75 lbs, it feeds perfectly and produced a .5" group on my first attempt at a group, I quit for the day and called it good, this is what you call excellent value for $$$

[@DreamConundrum]

The chances of a Tikka T3X working perfectly out of the box are very high. It's hard to argue against.

[@rickimperatori6960]

700 has had a rough decade or 2. I’m thinking the 70 wins.

[@jasonsfishingagain312]

The Model 70 had a tough 40 years or so, it still wins. 😁

[@BourbonPrepper]

Put me down for the 700! Let's see!

[@BourbonPrepper]

Welp, Remington lost. QC lost it for them.

[@vikingsoftpaw]

​@@BourbonPrepper It's hard to bring a brand back when its so thoroughly destroyed.

[@salacommander2674]

The M70 has better features but for most North American hunters the 700 wins on practicality and price.

[@aware3218]

I was wondering if Remington had taken QC more seriously as of late, this answers my question...

[@shaunzimmerman661]

someone who esembled the bolt put in the small extractor for 233 size cases instead of the large extractor for 30-06 and that it why it left it on the chamber and didnt eject.

[@Helfirearms]

If you want a quality Remington 700 you should just buy a Bergara B14 😂

[@RonaldMiller111]

It’s a trade off to have a controlled round extraction because it has a cone shaped barrel to accommodate the extraction

[@ridgerunner6211]

I'm a Remington fan myself, I love the 700 series ❤

[@ULFISHGETTER]

That model 70 all day long everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. I own a 1989 model 700 in 30-06. I also own a 2024 Winchester model 70 EWSS 308 I grabbed up this year bc those are getting harder and harder to find and I’ve wanted one for years. If I had to choose one in would be the model 70.

[@Honkers716]

Now when will MDT start making chassis again for the model 70?

[@mike36dc]

Winchester, Oliver, bought into The Volcanic Repeating Arms Company. The New Haven Arms Company was the next name after insolvency reorganization & Winchester taking over completely, and then the Henry rifle was produced.

[@renniesmith8073]

I am a Remington guy I have two 788's (my most accurate rifles by far) and a few 700's as well. All of them will shoot very close to 1" or even a little better. But I have a pre 64 Winchester in 264 win mag that was loaned to me for my first deer hunt by a very close friends dad. I borrowed that rifle for 2 seasons and loved it over the years I tried to buy that rifle from him and he would never sell it. Before he passed he gifted me that rifle. It shoots 1.5" groups. So yea it's by far my favorite rifle but it doesn't get used much these days but if I could only have one rifle that would be it!

[@earlearl8850]

M 70 the factory legend has no equal ! Never will!!

[@BWGPEI]

I admire your good humour when faced with a malfunction. I've hunted with people who, in similar conditions, who would whine and complain fit to scare everything within a mile.

[@iancurrie8844]

I've had many examples of both. The M70 is a fine rifle designed to be the best it can be. The current production of them is excellent and absolutely rivals the pre-64. The model 700 is designed just to be made more cheaply and cuts corners to that end. I've had one go "bang" when it wasn't supposed to.

[@jamesbeasley1753]

I just bought a Remington 700 bdl in 300 win mag, it shoots fantastic and hasn’t had any of the feed issues shown in this video.

[@joshh5853]

I’m 50/50. I firmly believe that the model 70’s hold an edge in the looks and handling category. I have never preferred that winged safety, even after years of use. I like the general simplicity of the 700 action and in general I have gotten better accuracy with them. I won’t hesitate to add another of either to my safe.

[@danielcourtright5659]

Holy cow I have owned 20 plus M 700s over 50 years and never had any issues with ejections or accuracy.

[@shaunzimmerman661]

they put an extractor from the 233 size case instead of the larger extractor for 30-06 size case. i saw this happen before!

[@nathanadrian7797]

I won the rifle at a RMEF banquet, it was a Rem. mod. 700 ADL, and absolute garbage! If you cycled the bolt 10 times, it would jamb 3 times. My sister in law had a 700 BDL fire when the safety was disengaged, and so did a friend. On the other hand, my brother has a 700 BDL that has been flawless.

[@countryboysteve]

Dad blew a hole through the back porch ceiling/roof due to that safety that supposedly had no issues. Another guy in my home town shot a cow through his feedtruck about 4 inches from his wife the same way. Flipped the safety off and bang

[@nathanadrian7797]

My sister in law went to unload her rifle and shot a hole in the ground(never hunted again), a friend slid off the safety and gave a monster mulie a warning shot, and it only needed one. I love the look and accuracy of the 700, but I wouldn't buy one!

[@WayStedYou]

Why did he flip the saftey off while pointing at a cow

[@countryboysteve]

@WayStedYou he flipped the safety off while standing next to the truck to unload it. The gun went off shot a hole through the bed of the feed box which caused it to turn go through the back window narrowly missing his wife and to hit the cow standing by the truck. Just like my dad there was no finger on the trigger. There were numerous deaths and accidental discharges of these rifles. Remmington claimed they were all due to either poor maintenance or modification or that someone had to have pulled the trigger etc. Magically they recalled a huge number of rifles and changed the design but still claim after dozens and dozens of people had the issue that there was no issue. The desgin allowed for the firing pin to not catch the sear but be held back by the safety so as soon as you flipped off the safety the pin fired

[@danielhess1082]

​@countryboysteve I'm assuming it was an older 700 that doesn't allow you to open the bolt while the safety is on? Because if it's not, why would you turn the safety off to unload?

[@countryboysteve]

@danielhess1082 based on my comment as well as Ron's I would have thought the fact it was older would have been a given but yes. The 3 position safety didn't appear till some time in the early 2000's if I remember the date correctly. There were dozen of cases against remmington.

[@DuhartCreek]

I have a Remington model 7 in 243. Purchased in 1997. Always had great groups at the range. One trip conditions were just right, 3 shots I could cover with a dime.

[@edburash7656]

I have a new Rem Arms 30-06 that does 3/4” and under with every factory load I put through it. Hand loads even better. I also have a Winchester model 70 EWSS in 300 wsm that won’t shoot any factory loads under 2”. Hand loads are around 1/2” with 168 ttsx and 3/4” with 175 LRX. Kills elk real well😊

[@straxstrax2980]

Awesome episode idea Ron & the team. Much enjoyed thank you

[@unclebuzz6913]

In 1984 I was working in Wyoming (Shute Creek) won a Remington 700BDL in 25-06 on a 5 dollar square . It shot like a laser. It was as good as my HK 770 308 or better.. A lot easier to find scope bases at the time.. I really enjoyed that 25-06 it cost me 5 bucks. The HK cost about 4-500 bucks.. I liked the Remington. My buddy had the Winchester I don't know why I did not like it as much as the 700BDL...(maybe it was my lucky rifle as I won it on a football pot) 5 dollars... God Bless you and your Loved ones

[@williamfeldner9356]

In the 1990s I had the Remington Custom Shop build some rifles for me. A Kevlar stock 7 mm Remington Magnum , and African Plains rifles in 3 different calibers, a 7mm Rem Mag, a 300 Wea Mag, and a 375 h@h. They all shot very well but over time I slowly traded them away. I currently have a collection of Winchester Model 70s in Super Grade and Alaskan models , all made in Portugal. These newer Model 70s are extremely well made, the machine metal work and Wood Stock work is fabulous……. Given a choice to get the Model 700s back, I would keep the Winchesters any day.

[@duggydo]

I have a Remington 870 that I love. It's about 35 years old. Everything else Remington I've owned has given me trouble. I don't think I will be buying anything else Remington.

[@okeydokey2766]

I have that exact model 70 FW 30-06 and it hates accubond bullets. I can’t get better than 2” groups with it. But I can get 1” with other types pretty consistently. Absolutely love this video Ron! And and love the Model 70. There’s just something about them..

[@sandybarnett7502]

Boy oh boy, don't think I will be getting a new Remington or Winchester!

[@FranzAntonMesmer]

For two lugs, Savage, Ruger, Tikka, and Howa are all good. I like the floating head Savage best. I'm a big fan of the late 60s Ranger Arms and Voere 3 lug fat bolt designs, everyone seems to be copying those now.

[@larrywilliams2359]

I’ve always preferred the REM 700 for accuracy, looks and fit! Have had up-teen over the yrs. from 223 to the 300 ultra mag. all have been very accurate! Never had any issues with safety or accidental discharge. The # 1 action for rebuild in the past is a REM 700 action for a reason ! The two hardest kicking mules I’ve ever shot was in the Win. model 70, in 300 Win mag. one being a pre 64. REM needs to pay great attention to their Q C, all eyes are on the new company !

[@jasonbyassee7541]

Remington was awesome when I was growing up. Several years later I bought my own deer rifle. The model 700 was still the gun to get… I realized I didn’t need a magnum cartridge for where I was hunting so I moved down to a 308. I’ve had a few different guns in this caliber, but it’s still the caliber for me and where I hunt.

[@kal3597]

Its disappointing to see winchester and remington nowadays. They were THE rifles to have back in the day I agree with Ron...we need to support them....but they need to build a rifle that works everytime Like howa, ruger, browning and weatherby.....etc

[@stevendonnalammar4422]

I had a Remington 7400 once that had a flimsy little extractor like on that 700, and while it looked little and flimsy it still had no problem ripping the rim of the cases off if they didn't want to come out of the chamber. Sawalha controlled around feed may have a massive Mauser style extractor it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to help if the cartridge doesn't want to extract.

[@blairgraves7541]

This video is just conformation as to why I like older rifles and hand loaded ammo, great video

[@oldnumber5866]

I’ve got a Garmin and can’t believe I’ve lived without one all this time. A couple of years back I walked into a local gun store and saw it up on the rack. The classic lines and beautiful wood made it stand out among all those plastic stocks. It was a Winchester Model 70 in 270 Winchester. There was no way I was walking out without it. It shoots around 1 moa which is just fine for a hunting rifle. I’ve own Remingtons before but they just don’t compare with the Winchester.

[@hammerheadms]

I have a newer FN Winchester M70 and I love it. Definitely more accurate than the one featured here. I don't own a model 700, but I am very familiar with them. Save for their travails in recent years they certainly seemed like nice rifles, and I would have liked one. I have owned other Remington rifles, and have been less than impressed, but those are also of their budget lines.

[@leonardogarcia2506]

Videos like these, are the reason I watch Ron! I’m really hoping Remington can make a comeback. To me, it has to be just a hair better than Bergara, to be the Remington we all remember. I’m lucky or cursed enough to have shot the older 788’s and 700’s, to have a love affair with them. If my first time shooting a Remington 700 would have been the one I bought in 2003, I’d write them off and say they’re junk, but again, I have half a dozen older Remingtons, that prove they were once the standard and the one all others were judged by. Fingers crossed that they can come back to being that rifle again! As for Winchester, they’ve never been less than the pinnacle of what I consider to be an American classic. They have their share of ugly plastic rifles, but they’ve never stopped being a beautiful rifle that shoots great and is reliable. Just would like to see them take more bold moves, like they did with their long range mb.

[@ronbeckybeasley3566]

The model 70 has always been and always will be the greatest rifle ever made. It’s not even close

[@keithprinn720]

clearly hasnt been for many decades. total rubbish claim based on reality. Why choose either today over Tikka or Bergara. Not even customs lol and cheaper by far. Understand the classic stock better.

[@ronbeckybeasley3566]

@@keithprinn720 why choose a model 70. Because they are hands down better. The two you listed are overrated pieces of garbage

[@taasch2505]

No one thinks the Begaras or Tikkas are "pieces of garbage". But many of us watching you spend 2k+ for a tool that going to get beat up over several hunts without any meaningful difference in accuracy and many would argue, with a less smooth action; are fools.

[@ronbeckybeasley3566]

@@taasch2505 your wrong. Model 70 is smoother, more accurate, more reliable than both of those. Sure I’ve got $2000.00 model 70s. But I’ve got a feather weight in 270 that’s $1100.00 all day and puts 145 grain ELDx bullets in the same hole at 100 yards. A real gun man knows what is the best.

[@masondevos799]

@@ronbeckybeasley3566 Thats just straight up not true. Tikka and Bergara are known for accuracy and smoothness. I have had 3 model 70's and i love them all. I also own a tikka and bergara and for you to say the model 70 is smoother than a tikka is absolutely ridiculous

[@Bad_spark]

The AK-47, Glock 17, Tikka T3x, the newest DoD sniper rifles and many other reliable firearms all do well without controlled round feed. It's not the push feed aspect of this rifle that is the problem. With this particular one, it's clearly QC at remington.

[@kennethcampbell6934]

I've owned a 700 & 70 both shoot good groups . My mod 70 is a 1964 push feed lol never had a problem with either one. ❤ both of them

[@Westerner_]

Model 70: CRF Massive claw extractor Three position safety that locks bolt on safe Model 700 Push feed Baby extractor Two position non locking safety M70 all day every day

[@montyherren26]

Winchester guns that work. I think that used to be in their commercials. That seems to be the truth still today.

[@danielhess1082]

I think Remington changed the extractor. The new extractors clip/snap in, where as prior they were pinned and ground in. I've noticed a difference in the reliability

[@EricChmelarsky]

I had same issue on the model 700 in the late 80's. Took it to my gunsmith. 10 minutes and 20 bucks. Still working just fine.😮

[@Colonel1Bravo]

Have both but for the same money, get a begara or a CVA if you want accuracy

[@randymartin5521]

I've always preferred the controlled round feed of Mausers and the 1917 Enfield and I really wanted a Winchester Model 70 back in the late 80s. I'd finally saved up the money and was ready to buy one but when I went to the gun shop and asked to see one, the bolt appeared to have not been completely finished, there were tooling marks all over it. I wanted a .30-06 or a .308 and they had two more, another 06 and a .308, both exhibited the same unfinished look with tooling marks all over the bolts. I walked out with a Remington 700 with a nicely jeweled bolt in .308 feeling like I had settled for less and never did get a Winchester. That Remington 700 would shoot inch and a quarter to inch and a half 5 shot groups with a variety of bullet weights and manufacturers, even my hand loads never got any better than an inch and a quarter. I haven't had a rifle since that liked darn near everything I fed it like that Remington did.

[@AugustusMcCrae-e8h]

Tell Winchester to start making left handed Model 70’s!

[@Suphlacki]

3:40 audio kicks in.

[@nathanadrian7797]

Thank you.

[@allthingsconsidered3211]

actually @ 1:48

[@jeffreyvannederynen8342]

I have a model 70 in 308. I love it!

[@Northspy49]

Ron, you are gonna love that Garmin.

[@Tacteyecool]

This is going to be good. But I bet he says there's no clear winner but he probably likes 70 better

[@randall875]

I'm rooting for rem m700 better accuracy typically than the m70

[@camerongehle8592]

I have both

[@elvinirons5959]

I’ve seen them both Perform excellent especially the old school models, I own 1 of each and both do well !!

[@randall875]

@@elvinirons5959 I've got a 300 wsm in the remington m700 and my step dad has a 300 wsm in the winchester m70. They're both similar his 1.5" at 100 yards mine at 1". But both are minute of moose to 300 yards! Which after that I think both our abilities are out the door 😂

[@flashgross]

Loved this video. Great job Mr Spomer!

[@scottmansur9978]

I have a 700 I bought in 1990! The best thing I ever bought. That looks the the 700 mountain rifle Ron is shooting

[@j.dalemorgan2975]

Win M70 all the way. 3 old school Pre-64 .270 standard, .243 Featherweight, & .300 H&H models. Also love my M70 All-weather SS in .300 Win & another one rebarreled to .264 Win with a 1:8 twist. Old ones still shoot great and like the cold weather best. The new models are a bit temperamental with factory loads but have the handloads locked in after a bedding job. The CRF action is fantastic. As someone who generally stalks around with an empty chamber in open & semi-open country, I really appreciate how quiet the CRF action can cycle a round from the box mag into the chamber without spook close game. Not enough people appreciate this aspect.

[@billhendon1017]

I’ve had them both. Both shot very well! I have a model 70 in 7 rem mag and 700 in 270 win . Both are great!

[@35rem19]

Got a new 700 CDL SF in 30-06 early this year. Gorgeous rifle that shoots great too! These new ones have Timney triggers in them.

[@dwwest8168]

When I worked at Walmart in Sporting Goods about 20 years ago. I had people come in the night before deer season wanting to buy a rifle.

[@paulsimmons5726]

I’ve got a ‘61 Remington 40X 22lr and it’s a tack driver, when my eyes are good, lol. Having said that, all of my hunting rifles are CRF M-70’s. Anytime you’re hunting, extraction and reloading are far more important than when you’re at the range punching holes in paper or ringing steel. It’s a shame that the 700 was DOA; and the 700’s are made in the USA but, unfortunately, that’s no guarantee of decent craftsmanship. QC haunts Remington… The M70 performed as I would have expected, mine are sub-MOA with loads they like when I do my part. From what you’ve presented in this video, I’ll stick with my Winchesters! From Pre-64, to post 64 PF’s, and back to the NH Classics, to the SC FN’s and to the current European models… I’ve always had better results with Winchester M-70’s!

[@taasch2505]

As someone who works around all these bolt actions daily at my store I can say neither myself, nor any fellow employees have any desire to buy either. All of us went the Begara route. I do also buy Savage Arms as inexpensive range toys and beaters and some other guys prefer the Ruger American for the same applications. Choose what you like, but I think both of these guns are overpriced pale shadows of their former selves and arguably worse than less expensive options. They are the worst bang for buck. I do like the Brownings too though.

[@craigparker4108]

Is it true that Remington don't have a written warranty ?

[@taasch2505]

@@craigparker4108 yknow I'm pretty sure they do but I'm not sure if it's lifetime or limited. Im seeing a few companies start doing 1-10 year warranties. I know Benelli is a 10 year warranty now. Sadly Savage has gone down to a 1 hear warranty; which pisses me off more than a little. I think I can understand the concern of lifetime warranties to a degree. But heck, give us at least 5 years or something. 1 year is a joke.

[@Sagittariustoo]

I always preferred the control round feed and massive claw extractor of the model 70 from day one, whether for hunting or target use. 👍

[@45-70Guy]

I have a handful of Remington 700’s, all are older except for 1 which is new. All have shot great, one has pitting in the bore and still shoots 1” all day with handloads. But I’ve migrated to the locking bolt safety and CRF action as my favorite

[@general-Lee-700]

In the great wise words of Chucky himself a true classic never goes out of style ✋ Winchester

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

If you short stroke the Winchester just right, you can pick up another round without ejecting the brass, causing a double feed. This JAM works best when you have short action cartridge chambering in a long action. Parker Hale, and Musgrave made Long Mauser actions chambered in .308win, and I managed to JAM both examples during separate hunts. Maybe try it one day

[@davidlaney8254]

I have two Model 70’s and both will only control feed with just one cartridge in the magazine. If two or more are in the magazine, the bolt fails to attach itself to the rim on the top cartridge as it slides forward. After a very close look, the rear of the cartridge on top drops down as it slides over the nose of the cartridge below it, which keeps the bolt from attaching itself to the cartridge rim.

[@404nitro]

That 700 stick looks just like the ones that came on the CDL's and those were made by Boyd's. I had a bit of trouble with a couple of them being milled poorly and causing my barreled action to sit in the stock cocked to one side. Rem made it right, but it took two trips of me sending it in to them to finally get an acceptable one.

[@BrandonSmith-xf2ms]

Reminds me Of the when I gotten my 270. I was 18 and a senior in High school 2006. Dad took me to Bass Pro Shop to pick me out a new deer rifle with something more power and longer distance than my 3030 for graduation. I spent 2 hours going back and forth between the Remington model 700CDL and the Winchester model 70 featherweight. My dad was like either rifle you are getting a good one. I decided to go with the Remington just for the fact that I friends Remington was accurate out of the box and good trigger pull cause i helped him sight it in. I knew i did not want to do like dad had to do with his Savage 110 3006 was to, float the barrel, have a trigger job done, and the bolt was so tight having to spend hours working the bolt and a few other things done to it. Now that I am older and shot and handled more rifles I wished that i would have gotten the Winchester just for the fact that of the control claw extraction bolt.

[@nohandle257]

Giggle. This entire episode could have been me shooting my rifles. I bought 3 Model 70s new, a couple years ago. A 7mm 08. A 6.5 Creedmoor and a 6.5 PRC. I went up, down and sideways with factory ammo struggling for groups. Waste of time and my mental well being. I found a boutique ammo producer that loads mid range powder capacity and I always go mid range to light in bullet weight. I can pretty much count on 1 to 2 inch groups and I don't shoot beyond two hundred yards. I love love love the 'Mauser' type controlled feed actions. I'll never change. The Creedmoor has never missed on hogs or Aoudad. I shoot from a solid tripod and ball head. And its fore stock is slightly warped and presses on the right side of the barrel down toward the terminus of the fore end. I'm afraid to fix it. For the big ole Aoudad Billys ( they're goats not sheep ) I use the PRC and it's devastating. The 6.5 PRC is actually the Creedmoor short magnum but they didn't want to call it that. Also love the 7mm 08 and it's my little short barrel ( actually a youth rifle ) Featherweight walk around rifle. If somebody gave me any push feed rifle, especially a Remington, I'd sell it.

[@05xlt]

Man, I’m not sure that was really representative of either. I own a Featherweight in 7mm08, and that gun has been sub MOA right out of the box. I also agree that it’s one of the prettiest rifle designs out there. I also own 4 different model 700’s; VLS .22-250, LSS 7mm Rem, a BDL in .30-06, and lastly a “new RemArms” SPSS in .30-06. The first 3 are all MOA or less. The LSS is the only rifle I’ve managed to get a one hole group with. The new rifle is just that, I just mounted the scope yesterday, so we will have to see. I can say that the new trigger in these is very nice so far. Very crisp and just slightly heavier than my Christensen trigger. Fingers crossed on that rifle after watching this!

[@gabrielsalles-l6e]

right now I'm glad I have a Howa.

[@FranzAntonMesmer]

Howa is a Remington done properly. 😉

[@freecitizen7372]

I can’t speak of the new Remingtons, but the old Remingtons are awesome and I own three. I also own an old Winchester Model 70 Featherweight and it too is awesome.

[@dukeford8893]

I've purchased several 700 SPS models over the last 15 years, in calibers from .243 to .300 Win. I toss the Tupperware stocks and install something more suitable. They all shoot very well, most under an inch. I did have to change out the triggers on three of them for Timneys, but that's no big deal. I've only owned one late version M70 Winchester with CRF. The new Super Grades are sharp-looking muskets, but I've never been a big fan of any post-64 M70 action. I know they're supposed to be "better" than the pre-64's, but they sure don't look as nice.

[@patobrien7009]

I've owned several model 70's in different calibers. Three different 270's, a 30-06, and a 300 wsm. The only one I couldn't get 1 inch groups with was the 06. Unfortunately it was stolen along with many others. I now have the 300 wsm and another 270. The only Remingtons I have shot of owned were 870 wingmasters.

[@galenhisler396]

I love them both and have both in different calibers 🤠

[@handyandy6071]

I have lite primer strikes using hornady super performance in my new winchester model 70 .243. I have a new winchester model 70 compact .22-250 also. Love both rifles.

[@HILLBILLYJones1776]

I have a 1962 remington 700 7mm rem mag. It was my first gun. Still shoots great ( about 1 moa ) have has zero issues with it whatsoever. I can open the bolt with the safety still on. They should just go back doing them like they did at first.

[@DreamConundrum]

I am in the Model 70 CRF camp. I believe the action is demonstrably superior for feeding and extraction. I also believe the Winchester safety is superior. On either rifle, I would replace the trigger, so it is not as much of a factor to me. The Remington 700 extractor is objectively inferior, hence the popularity of Sako/M16-style alteration. The 700 generally gets the nod for accuracy and it is easier to rebarrel, especially in this era of custom clones and pre-fit barrels, so it's probably the better choice for competition shooters. For a hunting rifle, and the dangerous game part is irrelevant to most of us, I would prefer the M70.

[@markchester7584]

You had me worried about my hearing for the first 1m 49s intro Ron.

[@pulpheroaudio8709]

Meanwhile, I’ll just keep plugging away with my 42 year old Savage 110.

[@salacommander2674]

Hey Ron, I'm sure someone else in the comments has pointed it out and I just haven't seen it, but it seems you had an issue with the audio in the first part of the video after the intro.

[@scottmansur9978]

There are so many different hunting scenarios I won't even try to explain. What works best there maybe not here

[@Gunsandbunsmma]

My brother got a m70 and I got a 700 right at the same time 20 years ago now. I could hit things standing with my 700 that my brother couldn’t hit on a rest with his 70. I’ve never had malfunctions or action issues with my 700 after growing up in South Carolina hunting every year and now here in the west of Colorado. Don’t go with either models if you are buying new!

[@CoryHarrison-js6ph]

This mirrors my experience with the M70’s. I love the pre-64 actions but I’ve had over a dozen samples and have yet to own one that shoots what I would consider to be good. They’ve all been mediocre to poor as far as accuracy. Whereas I haven’t owned a 700 that didn’t shoot great, but I have gotten some that weren’t perfect out of the box otherwise. I’d rather have a rifle that shoots great but might need some tweaks to run 100% than one that shoots 2MOA.

[@larryschmidt3594]

I have a 30 some year old Remington 700 in 270. It is smooth and accurate with almost any brand of ammo. Recently won a Ruger American in 308, range testing with a 1-8 scope set to 8x I am getting 1 1/8 inch six shot groups at 100yds. This is with Norma whitetail 150 grain and AAC in 150grain tipped ammo. I love the look of that Winchester but give me the Remington. Let us know what Remington had to say.

[@SoupyOatmeal]

Companies say a lot of things like we are really going to focus on quality. What they actually mean is we are going to use our quality reputation to focus on profit. Say hello to the new Remington ............. who's BS'ing who.

[@Honkers716]

Hey MDT, when will you make a chassis for the model 70 again?

[@chrisparkin431]

that was an amusing video to watch

[@rustynutzgarage5496]

Always been a pre 64 model 70 guy but I've recently got a howa super light for the lower weight and ability to use my suppressor.

[@Suphlacki]

No audio!

[@idahoron]

Ron your audio is not working

[@triplehelper6944]

I’m a big fan of whatever shoots and preforms flawlessly. I don’t think either of what u used today are on my list of buy them. Sad to see. My list is tikka, cz, weatherby, savage 110, and howa is on my radar.

[@chadbinette3201]

Got a Winchester model 70 in 30-06 and a Remington 700 in 7mm-08. Can't say I really notice a difference till I pull the trigger my shoulder certainly tells the difference. Both are older probably from the early 1990s or late 80s.

[@rodneyfleshman242]

Ron I would love to see you do a comparison of the savage axis and ruger American as they seem to be the most popular today at least in my area

[@swiftyuras1]

What, a Remington with QC issues! Say it ain't so!

[@BourbonPrepper]

I bet that's not a Remington Arms rifle from Ilion NY. I bet it's a RemArms LLC rifle from LaGrange GA. Roundhill (a real estate investment group) bought Remington on the bankruptcy. Remington had employees that had generations upon generations of working in Ilion. Very often you worked the same machine your dad and grampa worked. Ken D'Arcy left most of the Remington employees behind; just like he did in Huntsville. Now its all new employees and you can't get the quality you did in the 70s through 90s.

[@chaseacklam6174]

You’re backwards. Quality is WAY better than it used to be. Moving to La grange a more gun friendly home, hiring young talent educated on modern CNC machines and downsizing their facility is the BEST thing Remington could have done. Get rid of those worn out shitty milling machines your grandpa used. They can’t compete with modern machines like the ones bergara and tikka uses. That’s why they outsell Remington. Evolve or die. New machines can pump out parts significantly faster and more consistent than any man has or ever will. We’re talking 6 axis machines tuned to millionth of an inch. That same old exhausted attempt to use manpower to compete with modern machining is what killed Remington in the first place.

[@approachingtarget.4503]

I don't know what to think. Our deer camp never chose Winchester in bolt actions. Plenty of Remingtons and even more Weatherby. The size and amount of locking lugs were a major selling points. And no one in our large group had over 1" moa. Not even the kids. The Remington 710 and 770 got bad reviews. Even though they shot way better than today's mossberg or Winchester rifles. Don't get me wrong, I like Winchesters in other fire arms. Just not bolt actions. If both of these are truly modern modles. The large groups are because of the barrel construction. Bergarra makes the barrels for Remington. They are the lowest quality out of the foundry. Much different than the original Remingtons. Tc compass has been my favorite for 20 years now. Before...90% were Remingtons.

[@TODinWY]

Why didn't Remington ditch the riveted extractor and go with an M-16 type? The "Three Rings of Steel " really means nothing. Guess it's a dollar thing. Their most reliable rifle is the 783. Great promo for TIKKA.

[@alex4g63extrpsi]

🧐🫤Mr spomer i saw a clip of a guy shooting the featherweight just like you testing for accuracy alongside a rem700 i believe Winchester says that feather weight rifle is for shooting while standing up gripping the front normally. Many people gave him heat for that because the rifle is so light their is much more recoil therefore pushing the rifle upwards more and moving it from the recoil shock blast. He remade the vid and held it properly as how it is intended to be shot being featherweight and got tight groups he then did the m70 supergrade and it not being a light rifle for absorbing better recoil he got about less than an inch of group.

[@BadoreksDailys]

Ron, love the content! I’ve got a good one for you. I have a bull elk hunt coming up at the end of November. My dilemma? My 2 rifles. One is a 6.5 creedmoor (I know, I know) and the other is a 300 win mag. Now, what an easy decision, right? You would think so. Here’s the problem, my 6.5 creed is whicked accurate out to as far as I can shoot. My 300 win mag? Not so much. I don’t want to throw any companies under the bus, but it’s a very expensive rifle from a company with a bit of a reputation for “issues” I’ve checked all the basics from scope rings, mounts, action screws, etc with my torque wrench to manufacturer specs. I’ve verified the scope is good (Leupold VX5) by putting it on my creedmoor. Here’s the problem, not only is it not AS accurate, but the accuracy is near poor. I’ve tried an unbelievable amount of loads through it and it just won’t consistently shoot. One day it’s finally grouping, the next it’s not. I know it’s not just my ability to shoot a 300, I grew up shooting a 7 mag just fine and this rifle has a muzzle break. My creed might actually kick harder. I pulled the action out of the stock today to check everything out after another frustrating range trip. The insert for the recoil lug had what appeared to be epoxy / risen fiber glass right in front of the insert. I found this odd, none of my rifles have anything similar. I did my professional gunsmithing (a torque wrench, Dremel, and a Tipton vice LOL) to make it flat and it seems to sit in the stock better with less “rocking” before the action screws are tight. I’m going out on Sunday to give it one last chance. I’m taking 200 gr. ELDX’s, 200 terminal ascent, 180 AB, 190 ABLR, and Norma Bondstrikes. If it STILL won’t shoot any of those very well at all I think it’s time to off it. Why don’t I send it back for warranty work? Well for 1 just with how inconsistent it is I’m sure they could run enough groups through it to eventually get one at an inch or better. 2 I am pretty confident my homemade gun smithing voided the warranty with this company. It’s a shame really, I LOVE this rifle. It looks great, feels great, I want it to be my absolute favorite but man…. It just won’t shoot. My creed is the opposite, it refuses to shoot OVER an inch with anything I run through it. I know it like the back of my hand and don’t worry about its “killing power” with the right load but darn it, I want use my 300!

[@janbastein7355]

It’s principal NOT to buy Remington! After selling junk rifles to customers!

[@slaphands7703]

Can they now make a lefty of either? Should be easy with today’s technology. Would love a M70 one day.

[@jw76497]

Audio picks up again at 1:52