Old Testament Does Not Foretell Jesus' Birth (feat Kipp Davis) (Lee Strobel Case for Christmas 4)

In this last of a four-part study, Lee Strobel points to Old Testament prophecy as the silver bullet in the case for the historicity of the Jesus birth narrative in his Case for Christmas. But Dr @Kipp Davis (a specialist in Second Temple Judaism and the Dead Sea Scrolls) joins Paulogia to investigate the same... but comes to very different conclusions.
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[@DrKippDavis]

BTW, that is my second-favourite t-shirt.

[@dustinellerbe4125]

Your character looks so much like you! Good job btw 👍👍

[@delawarecop]

I just love how Paulogia implies that Wise men could not possibly use Astronomy as Navigation, yet Sailors have been using this same navigation system for 1000's of years. But I understand how atheists cling to their delusions in order to appease their conscience for taking part in xmas celebrations. But ultimately Lee Strobel is WRONG! Because there is absolutely NOTHING in all of scripture to even suggest that there was supposed to be any kind of xmas celebration. The evidence against xmas is blatantly obvious for all to see. The Feasts of the Lord are easily explained in Lev 23. The secret key to unlocking the dates in Lev 23 is the advent of New Moon Day being declared on the 1st month of the Hebrew Year. Therefore every single Feast of scripture cannot possibly be correlated to a particular date on the Julian/Gregorian calendar, because those calendars did not exist in any form whatsoever, when Lev 23 was penned. The Roman Julian calendar did not exist prior to 63BC, and this same Roman calendar was later modified by the Papacy and became the official Catholic calendar in 1582, which was later adopted by the whole world, except some radical muslim states. Even Jews changed from the Hebrew Luni-Solar calendar in 367AD under leadership of Hillel II. Before 63BC, romans had an 8 day week and a 10 month year, so that all current calendations systems are completely detached from Nature. However, the Creators Luni-Solar calendar is still in effect and is 100% pinned to Nature and the natural cycles discovered everywhere on earth. Therefore to pinpoint those Lev 23 Feast Days requires observation of the Natural world, as opposed to blindly following a calendar designed by a deluded ROman Caesar and an equally deluded Pope Gregory XIII. What atheists don't realise in their hatred towards everything they think comes from God, is that their recognition of the Gregorian calendar actually makes them Catholics in the eye of the Creator. Xmas day is a Catholic inspired consolidation of paganism being fixed as Dec 25th, but not found anywhere in scripture. Whereas the catholic inspired easter is a pagan adaptation of the Hebrew Passover + Unleavened Bread + First Fruits, which has no fixed Gregorian date each year, because it's calculated according to the Hebrew Luni-Solar calendar.

[@wfemp_4730]

@@delawarecop "What atheists don't realise in their hatred towards everything they think comes from God" Atheists don't accept the claim of the existence of any god, so to claim they think anything comes from a god is illogical.

[@delawarecop]

@@wfemp_4730 "Atheists don't accept the claim of the existence of any god," LOL, but atheists do spend a LOT OF TIME trying to convince others that there is no God. and they even fabricate alternative views to explain the Natural Universe through genius statements like " A UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING", and Science Fiction stories about universes exploding into existence without cause or reason, and even the possibility of multi-verses, when they don't even know the true dimensions of the current Universe. But I digress. The Dictionary specific interpretation of atheism is - The SPECIFIC BELIEF that there are no gods. This is actually Science denialism 101, because Einstein's interpretation of the Universe claims that knowing the future before it occurs is IMPOSSIBLE in the natural Universe because it would violate CAUSALITY. Therefore a book called the Bible, with numerous references to a futire Nuclear war thats destroys civilisation, some references as far back as 3500 years ago, is evidence of a SUPERNATURAL GOD who is able to exist outside of our current understanding of the spacetime continuum. This is the evidence that Paulogia is attempting to discredit through his private interpretation of prophecies, that are in reality simply word plays by a proven self confessed antichrist!

[@bdf2718]

@@delawarecop Nobody using celestial navigation has *ever* seen a star remain at the zenith of a fixed point on earth other than at the north pole. You have to invoke magic to account for the star over the manger. It's not in any nautical almanac and never was. BTW, you need to trilaterate with *three* celestial bodies to navigate to anywhere other than the north pole.

[@weldabar]

I remember reading these non-prophecies as a Christian, thinking to myself that they were not prophecies, but accepting that they must be and that I'm just not knowledgeable enough. It was the old religious practice of forcing yourself to believe even when it doesn't make sense - not questioning, being obedient. I'm glad I finally had the courage to allow myself to be skeptical. Thanks Paul and Kipp for helping others to think.

[@samuelcalderwood1379]

What prophecy do you believe wasn't fulfilled

[@weldabar]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 Did you even watch the video? Start with the many they mentioned in it. Also in this context we're comparing what scripture actually said with how it's being falsely interpreted. The non-fulfilling of actual prophecies is another discussion.

[@robsaxepga]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 gee whiz... How about none of them? 😂😂

[@samuelcalderwood1379]

@@weldabar what prophecy are you referring to

[@delawarecop]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 - they don;t want to get too involved in specifics, because the atheist way is to cast doubt through their own 'special interpretation' of scripture, and leave it at that. They aren't interested in truth, only their private interpretation of truth, so that their own lives are being highlighted as a LIE.

[@heethanthen706]

Door to door witnesses: Hello sir, would you like to take a moment to discuss the word of god? Dr. Kipp Davis: Sure, what would you like to know?

[@onedaya_martian1238]

LOL. Christmas cheers mate !!

[@DrKippDavis]

This used to happen a lot. Sadly, no one rings my doorbell to talk about the Bible, or the end of the world, or the Book of Mormon anymore. I feel neglected.

[@kamion53]

@@DrKippDavis I guess you got on their "Don't_Go_There" lists years ago.

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@MrPaulMorris]

@@kamion53 I think the same happened to me after I invited the two smartly dressed young men to step inside for a longer chat. Somehow they appeared to find it difficult to share my devotion to Odin All Father and refused to join my worship at the household shrine. Nor did they seem to understand the revelations of my runic reading in exposing the errors of their clearly false beliefs. I trust in Odin's mercy that they simply blacklisted me rather than being struck down by a the mighty spear Gungnir. Oh the joys of living alone with time and money to burn... Marriage and family meant my library becoming a dining room, my shrine to Odin being consigned to a box under the stairs and my wife, a staunch member of the Russian Orthodox church, taking over duties to repel door stepping missionaries.

[@incredulouspasta3304]

This is my favorite challenge to give Christians: read Matthew in order. Every time it claims prophetic fulfillment, read the corresponding Old Testament passage carefully. Read the surrounding context carefully. I don't think a fundamentalist Christian can do this without feeling _at least_ profoundly uneasy.

[@ManoverSuperman]

My theory is that Gentile Christianity got carried away with the Messianic prophecy bit and subsequently misunderstood Matthew’s points. When I first began doubting my faith, Matthew’s gospel was one of the places I went to most to see the absurdities in the gospels. After all, look at the all the passages in the Tanakh he says were “fulfilled” by Jesus that do not appear to have any relevance to what is going on in the gospel! However, I have since come to see that the author is doing something else besides just claiming a prediction came to pass when he uses the word “fulfill”. He isn’t always using the word in the sense that a prediction was fulfilled; sometimes he is also citing verses that apply to a given situation depicted in the narrative or that highlight an aspect of the character he is trying to portray.

[@EdwardHowton]

I feel like that challenge goes un-attempted every single time, though. Any christian even _capable_ of accepting such a challenge is not going to be a christian for very long anyways, and that kinda means that any christian you'd ever be in a position to issue the challenge to is never going to lift a single finger to learn anything about their "faith" in the first place. Kinda gotta hit that microscopic sweet spot between 'hasn't thought about it yet but will' and 'too fucking stupid and lazy to ever have a thought'. And that's like... six people at any given moment.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@EdwardHowton I'm one of those stubborn fucks who actually reads the Book and still remains Christian after leaving Young Earth Creationism, leaving Biblical inerrancy, leaving the idea that God is omni, _and_ realizing that the God(head) of the Bible that I worship is probably the Mesopotamian Anunnaki and the Bible is Bronze Age theocratic tribal propaganda justifying Mesopotamian cultural genocide of the Phonecian Ba'alim and forcing the ANE to worship the Anunnaki and submit to Babylon; note every time the God(s) of Abraham ruthlessly genocides the Canaanites, Philistines, and anyone else who worships the Phonecian Ba'alim, while giving the Mesopotamian cultures either slaps on the wrist or even His own Chosen Tribe in chains, commanding His People to Exterminatus the Canaanites and Philistines but submit to Babylon, the very Empire of Evil, and even the Devil-worshipping* terrorist al-Qaeda of the ancient world, Assyria! As for the NT, it just passes the baton of the Empire of Evil from Babylon to Rome, and still commands submission to the Evil Empire while letting them wipe out any worshippers of HaBa'alim, as seen with Rome's war on Carthage! God can kill whoever He wants and still be pure and not have broken the Divine Law because God is not human and therefore not subject to human law, the Lion of Judah is a Cat and therefore subject to the moral law of cats, which is they kill whatever they want, enjoy flesh, and are always right! Aslan is the most metal God ever! 🤘😎

[@EdwardHowton]

@@autobotstarscream765 You _do_ understand that all you did was make up your own nonsense and then say you believe in it, right? You _do_ understand that's insane, right? You do realize admitting you're stubborn doesn't make it okay? Do you even care that everything you just said is bullshit you made up to make yourself feel special and that none of it is true?

[@samuelcalderwood1379]

Jesus fulfilled much of the new testament.The current pandemic is fulfilling prophecy as in pestilence , God is shaking the nations and nothing is left so the rapture could happen anytime with other prophecy being fulfilled during the time of the antichrist and that will be a terrible time

[@grapeshot]

Yes the New Testament writers did a lot of literary gymnastics trying to turn Jewish prophecies into some type of Christian fulfillment.

[@jarrod752]

It was a lot easier to fool people who were forced to waste a valuable Sunday on God when they already worked 18 hour days to survive...

[@intermediaryfossil7163]

Check out Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill. The audio version is great. He demonstrates, in a logical manner, how the bible is a mockery of a Jewish rebellion and the clever "deification" of Roman Generals/Emperors. The final "Lord" worshipped in the Gospels is a Roman general who became a Roman Emperor. The Gospels have many jokes in it. Even cannibal jokes. The "King of the Jews" is even comically pressed in a wine press!

[@sorenjensen3863]

And later Christians do a lot of mental gymnastics in order to justify said fulfillment

[@thejudgmentalcat]

@@sorenjensen3863 Yeah, Strobel was not making the landing even without the expert translations

[@kamion53]

@@intermediaryfossil7163 Joseph Atwill loves to create conspiracy theories and then place them in the first century CE. But set in a broader historical context will quickely show his story is complete balony. Only Ralph Ellis spins more ludicrous tales.

[@NimWithRandomNumbers]

Awww. The solstice blessing warms my heart, as a former Christian, who finds the return of the sunlight in Canada a much better thing to celebrate than the birth of an infant destined to be tortured to death.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Eh-men brother Nim !!

[@samuelcalderwood1379]

So you don't celebrate Christmas then?

[@jameswilkinson259]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 Who wouldn't accept a paid day or two off work?

[@NimWithRandomNumbers]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 Our family celebrates on the solstice, we still decorate a tree, we make gingerbread, and we hang garlands of dried oranges and some with berries to hang outside for the birds. Together we light candles to burn through the longest night, to remind us the sun will return. On Christmas we would still visit (pre-covid) and exchange gifts with extended family who are still Christian, but our special day is the solstice.

[@Dragoderian]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 Nah, mate, we celebrate Saturnalia; it's super rad and demonstrably predates Christmas.

[@asexualatheist3504]

As a person who left judaism, all I can say is ‘wow’. I respect Dr. Kipp’s scholarly commentary. Funny thing, to this day I cannot pronounce yod hey vav hey.

[@DrKippDavis]

Wow!

[@autobotstarscream765]

It must drive you nuts to hear Christians pronounce the Name out all the time now, but what do you think of the idea that the Canaanites worshipped one of their HaBa'alim (did I write that right?) by the Name and even allegedly sacrificed babies in the Name, thus inducing HaShem to declare Exterminatus upon them?

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@asexualatheist3504]

@@autobotstarscream765 it is weird to hear yod hey vav hey pronounced so freely. However, I started down the path of truth. The modern myths do not hold up in any of the abrahamic faiths.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@asexualatheist3504 Modern myths?

[@justaguy6100]

Excellent bringing in Dr. Kipp, as always I'm impressed with your circle of collaborators!

[@isaacleillhikar4566]

I dont know why he's rolling the R in Eferauim

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

Ironically, Six Day Young Earth Creationists insist upon taking Genesis literally yet refuse to take the Old Testament prophecies literally. Utter hypocrisy and double standards!

[@kamion53]

only two standards? they create standards at the spot, that's why they are called creationists.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

But they don’t take Genesis literally. Any honest reading of Genesis I would notice that it doesn’t match Genesis II, yet YECs insist that they tell parts of the same story. And the chapters are right next to each other.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

@@francesconicoletti2547 good point, and I normally elaborate. My point was about interpreting the so called Messianic prophecies literally. They don't take literally in Genesis: The talking snake was literally just a snake who could talk and not Satan. That Adam and Eve were supposed to literally die the same day they ate the Forbidden Fruit. They insist that the six days of creation are literally six days, yet when the same terminology is used about the Forbidden Fruit, they take it metaphorically as Adam lived for hundreds of years. Also, the snake told the truth which God admit, their eyes were opened, and God lied about the punishment. He said they would die upon the day they ate the Forbidden Fruit, not any of the cursed is the ground or child birthing would be painful nonsense. In addition, what purpose did the fruit of life serve if they were already immortal and doesn't the Scriptures say elsewhere that only God is immortal? PS I'm using Forbidden Fruit as shorthand for The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

@@kamion53 good point and 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@francesconicoletti2547 That's why I left Young Earth Creationism; to read Genesis literally, you must first read it in the original Sumerian, and it makes so much more sense!

[@dogfishrulez]

I've been binge-watching so much of Dr. Kipp Davis' content! I love his approach to Bible as literature and its something I never would have considered when I was a Christian. In fact, this is the most interested I've been in the Bible since leaving Christianity over a decade ago!

[@Paulogia]

awesome

[@DrKippDavis]

That's amazing. Thank you.

[@TheDizzleHawke]

Finally! A comprehensive and easy to understand explanation of biblical prophecies. This video will be a great resource for many people.

[@lilrobbie2k]

Nothing fails like prophecy and prayer.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

John and Jane went up the hill to pray. All day upon that hill did they stay. But, alas their prayers went unheard, thier prayers were a waste of time, deed, and word! So the next day, they awoke, To find they were broke. Then they got work, and earned an income, which is a far better and useful outcome!

[@samuelcalderwood1379]

@@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596 don't give up your day job

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 at least I had two jobs* and am not living off of benefits, whilst living in my grandmother's basement. Probably eating ramen noodles, or something off of the McDonald's or Wendy's savers menu. Plus drinking the cheapest alcohol money can buy. *I was a librarian and a teaching assistant. I'm retired now.

[@Timmeh_The_tyrant]

Prayer doesn't fail. There are many types of prayer that work quite well.

[@uninspired3583]

@@Timmeh_The_tyrant if by quite well you mean at the rate of chance sure

[@RyanEhli-MusicAndGuitar]

I listened to parts of this several times over & documented some notes because there's so much great information from Dr. Kipp Davis! I love great scholarship like this. Dr. Kipp seems very knowledgeable & even inspires me!

[@Paulogia]

Glad it was helpful!

[@DrKippDavis]

Thank you. That is very kind.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Best Christmas present ever from Paul & Kipp. Thank you for the gift of your intellect and pursuit of truth. Such an opus bonum instructus ! The craftsmanship of this presentation, from graphics, research & references, sound quality, etc is outstanding. This gives hope that 2022 will see more enlightenment. Sincere appreciation gentlemen.

[@samuelcalderwood1379]

Ryan don't be fooled by this garbage, Jesus is real and he's coming back

[@simongiles9749]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 No, no he really isn't. Get over and get on with your life.

[@hatuletoh]

I genuinely enjoy how often in historical literature one encounters the hoary sentiment of "things used to be SO much better; the world today is going all to hell." From the Illiad to Snori Sturluson, from Froissart to the Southern "Lost Cause" tradition--and also, apparently, and rather unsurprisingly in the Torah--that sentiment just seems to be universal throughout time and place, which suggests that the feeling is probably rooted in human psychology. What I enjoy much less is how people exploit this feeling for their own ends, and how many people today wholeheartedly buy into the myth. One of many reasons why it's important to study history.

[@Otherwise88]

I wonder if the lament isn't specific to those in power. In my circles I dont usually hear women or minorities speaking in quite the same manner...

[@rebekahosborne4710]

Brilliant!

[@shaunelliott8583]

Nostalgia was better back in my day!

[@AnonimusQualquer]

Nostalgia and selective long-term memory. We naturally don’t keep high detail of unpleasant moments of our past (except traumas). So in the long-run of a human’s life, we usually forget the bad details about our past and only remember the good parts. Then we make a comparison to today’s hardships and the past feels better, so we lament an utopian lost-past when in the end is just our faulty memories.

[@Debilinside]

@@AnonimusQualquer This is 100% accurate. Its especially easy to do so when people didnt live that long and a single war could decimate population... Sure its hard to live a good life when half of your family was murdered on the battlefield and if your nation lost probably your village/city got sacked as well.

[@aaronhepler8070]

Strobel was clearly never an atheist

[@iseriver3982]

I forget, is lying a sin? 😂

[@Venaloid]

That's a really good point: for someone who loves to talk about how skeptical he used to be about Christianity, it seems highly implausible that he is now so gullible that he doesn't even check the context of passages.

[@Grim_Beard]

Technically, Strobel - like everyone - was born an atheist.

[@thelanktheist2626]

At best he was a lukewarm Christians which apologetics use as an “atheist” umbrella. It is not.

[@stevewebber707]

A problem with saying someone was never an atheist, or never a true Christian, or whatever label you like, is that those terms can have vastly differing definitions. So until the person using the label provides their understanding of it's meaning, the statement of the label on it's own holds little value. I don't particularly even care if Lee was the most stringent, and well versed atheists that ever was. The part I care about is whether his arguments for what he currently believes are convincing. Nope.

[@mikehatalovsky881]

Thank you. As usual, a thoughtful, thorough analysis of the willful ignorance and deception woven into the fabric of fundamentalism.

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@losttribe3001]

Hmmmm….watching these videos is starting to make me think my Sunday school teachers didn’t know what they were talking about.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Sunday school teachers just want the toxic meme to continue. Hansel and Gristle was a warning parable !!

[@MacTheHuman]

Paulogia, you rock. Hope you have a kick ass solstice!

[@DavidJohnWellman]

The in-depth work you do on these responses makes me want to work harder on my own videos. And Strobel is always good for a chuckle. Thanks for a great series and happy solstice. :)

[@Paulogia]

Go for it!

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@Florkl]

Ooh! I love this long content- great for listening at work.

[@ashesdowns9635]

A true Christmas gift: education. Thank you!! 😸❤

[@kamion53]

It is more like a booster shot against the virusses of stupidity and superstition.

[@larryg6865]

I love how they take Old Testament verses out of context. I remember actually reading the chapters and realizing what they were doing. Strobel knows this. What does that say about his ethics?

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Ethics ? What ethics ? These folks are as authentic as the wine they drink at "the lord's table".

[@Debilinside]

I love when christians quote mine "And thy cometh" SEE! THEY TOLD US JESUS WOULD COME! You can do that with any piece of literature, quoting a random part of the text without any context or explanation can be used for any purpose. I think with enough work, I could use the HCAAP regulations to prove Jesus was foretold by a government agency.

[@bobdobbs943]

@@Debilinside Just say it, you hope the bible is wrong.

[@Debilinside]

@@bobdobbs943 I know it is wrong. That book literally debunks itself.

[@bobdobbs943]

@@Debilinside You are under no obligation to read or believe the bible. It doesnt mean you are a bad person. May i ask, do you mean all of the bible is wrong, everything, or just some things are wrong. Thanks in advance.

[@Thezuule1]

Jesus didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies. It's just that simple. Best answer I've ever heard for this was "well he will when he comes back!" Let me know when that happens and I guess he can be the messiah then.

[@alanw505]

A first generation atheist You Tuber named Profmth Mitch created among other videos a four part series called Jesus Was Not The Messiah. In a very entertaining way Mitch reveals through the Old Testament verses exactly why Jesus just doesn't fit the messianic profile. Your comment sparked my memory of that video series...which is still uploaded on You Tube. It comes highly recommended.

[@Thezuule1]

@@alanw505 thank you for the heads up, I'll have to give it a look. I read an article once called something like why Jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah which opened my eyes a lot. As a Christian we were raised to believe Jewish people knew full well and rejected Jesus anyway and that couldn't have been less true.

[@alanw505]

@@Thezuule1 That also sounds very interesting. Jewish authors will always reveal things about the so called messianic prophecies that Christian authors just "forget" to mention. The best part of that Jesus Was Not The Messiah series is each video is 10 minutes long and the whole series is 40 minutes long. I really do hope you check it out.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

@@alanw505 Thanks as well for the reference! You might check out a more contemporaneous person, Rabbi Tovia Singer, found on "Mythvision's" channel and who has a channel also. He's a wonderful speaker.

[@alanw505]

@@onedaya_martian1238 Will do. Have a great holiday.

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

So far one of the best conversations on this channel. 👌

[@Paulogia]

Glad you think so!

[@ericpierce3660]

I always 'like' your videos before I even watch them.

[@Paulogia]

appreciated 😆

[@jaebird3077]

I forget if I don't. My mind is racing with all the Paul by the end.

[@lnsflare1]

I notice that he mentioned the manger story, which involves a census that was so stupid that it would have 100% destroyed the Roman economy if it had ever happened, and is a completely different story from the birth narrative that involves Herod's massacre.

[@thomaseliason8376]

I have learned to despise the overuse of "there's a lot to unpack".

[@heteroclitus]

This was brilliant. I was in an exchange with a fervent christian the other day who's go-to evidence for Jesus was the "prophecies" of Isaiah. This video was an excellent and timely explanation of the context I knew he was missing.

[@autobotstarscream765]

There's more where that came from! kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqGrm3dulM-BfLs

[@skwozies3083]

There is a lot more wrong with the prophecies of Isaiah than presented here. If you would like I can explain any of them to you to the best of my knowledge.

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@heteroclitus]

@@steved9128 he really doesn't.

[@js-sp9bz]

This is just what I wished for Christmas!

[@liberalinoklahoma1888]

Anything, especially the Bible, is useless if it can be 'interpreted' to say whatever you want it to say.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Not useless if you can interpret it to pay for a Gulfstream 5

[@snorribjorn5074]

Thank you yet again, Paul (and Kipp) for a very well reasoned and researched video. Happy Solstice!

[@stevenpike7857]

"The book that was written and re-written after the event predicted that exact event! IT'S A MIRACLE!"

[@mrlaw2729]

The Torah was never rewritten!

[@stevenpike7857]

@@mrlaw2729 The majority of Biblical scholars believe that the written books were a product of the Babylonian captivity ( c. 6th century BCE), based on earlier written sources and oral traditions, and that it was completed with final revisions during the post-Exilic period ( c. 5th century BCE).

[@mrlaw2729]

@@stevenpike7857 I've always been taught that Moses wrote the early books inspired by God himself. Of course you don't believe in the Divine nor in the spiritual. But im also open minded. Can you link me Documentaries about this subject? Thanks in advance mante

[@chuckoneill2023]

Meet us under Proxima Centauri. Second star to the right, and straight on to Salvation.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Its been said that every time one hears a tinker bell, an angel gets its wings.

[@jameswilkinson259]

And Neverland....😄

[@GetMeThere1]

Wow. This was a excellent one, full of expert analysis. Thanks!

[@seanhammer6296]

So great to see non believer Bible scholars debunk the "misleadings" of Christianity. In this case, it appears that Strobel flat out lied about several things. Happy Holidays!

[@Cat_Woods]

The frequency with which Christian apologists flat out lie leads me to believe that they are primarily con men, not believers themselves. They promote this stuff because they make a lot of money pandering to the likes of the troller of the comments on this video. People who don't actually consider the questions of what is true or how we can know it and make no attempt to apply criteria even-handedly to all religious claims.

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@seanhammer6296]

@@steved9128 Lss, that guy, just another quackpot. It's the same fanciful, flowery mind enticement that religion is: an opiate for those with low mental acumen. Entertaining though.

[@brickwitheyes1710]

Hell yes, I get excited for Paul vids......oh sweet it's almost an hour too!

[@thejudgmentalcat]

"Hell yes" 🤣 fellow blasphemer

[@broski365]

The apologist are reading the book of Matthew and are willing to cherry-pick out of context Old Testament phrases in the same technique and use it to predict their Jesus

[@lisahenry20]

"do you want to come to my party?" "nah, that sounds like I'll need to wear pants" I'm going to try that excuse next time

[@jameswilkinson259]

Even when I was a Christian the OT prophecies were vague and unconvincing to me. No more convincing than Nostradamus' quatrains.

[@samuelcalderwood1379]

Maybe you weren't a Christian

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Most of what I was taught as a youngster about the bible made no sense. I thought that, like the story of Santa, when I was old enough, I would be let in on the joke. Alas... I find that the joke is on most people (like american health insurance) and it is dangerous.

[@TheDizzleHawke]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 maybe you’re not a true Scotsman.

[@jameswilkinson259]

@Samuel Calderwood Accepted Jesus and got baptized at 6. Went to a Christian school from K5 to grade 12. Prayed fervently on a daily basis for forgiveness for my wickedness. Yep I was a Christian alright. Neurotic behaviour and everything that goes with it.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

@@samuelcalderwood1379 maybe you should stop using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. All Christians are true Christians if they believe in Jesus, attempt to follow his teachings, and were baptized in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. I was definitely a Christian and a religious sister.

[@BluStarGalaxy]

Lee Strobel is like the student that picked the right answer and then changed it to the wrong answer on a test. That is only if his claim of being atheist is true which is unlikely since his claims about atheism are what christians think atheism is like.

[@garrett6076]

23:30 Actually, in that Rashi comment on Isaiah 7:14, Alma is still not referring to a virgin. It is talking about the impossibility of a young woman giving birth because she is young, that is to say before puberty.

[@CalumCarlyle]

I bought a new JPS translation of the Tanakh and have never regretted it (the online JPS is the old 1917 one with all the thees and thous). It is really interesting to see the Jewish translations of some of the passages the Christians try to claim for themselves. Always good to still look up proper nouns though, sometimes words like “Elim” or the changing name of the god du jour are folded into the translation to hide the multitheistic, if not polytheistic origins of the religion, though I digress slightly. Even the NIV admits that this is about somebody leading Israel against an Assyrian invasion after all. Micah 1:1 even states outright that Micah prophesies about events during the rein of Kotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, suggesting that Micah was written after all of these prophecies had already been fulfilled. Similar explanation to the early Isaiah stuff.

[@MatthewSmith-wv5fi]

Let's face it. The New Testament was produced as a Disney sequel to the Old Testament. That's why nothing makes sense and it's mostly nods to the original with far less substance.

[@RyanEhli-MusicAndGuitar]

Haha I have a fairly strict "No Pants Policy" also

[@tripolarmdisorder7696]

I hate that these Apologists completely neglect the real issue... WHY WAS JESUS EVEN NECESSARY? Is Yahweh all powerful or not? Did Yahweh make the laws for atonement or not? Is Jesus the son of Yahweh or a lesser god that is admittedly doing us a solid? You know why they ignore that? It's because that answering any of those questions would open up a logical paradox that would require figuratively bending reality to make any of it possible or necessary.

[@OneEyed_Jack]

Nah. They just fall back on the "mysterious ways" schtick.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Bending reality is the sort of miracle that shows overwhelmingly powerful Deity worth submitting to and worshipping, but the whole "omni-omni" tradition that makes the Bible read like gibberish is unbiblical nonsense cribbed from Plato's Maximally Good Supreme Being by Hellenic church fathers divorced from "Abrahamic" religion's Bronze Age Mesopotamian Tribal Anunnaki roots and trying to turn the King of a henotheistic Pantheon into The Only God Ever and The Best At Everything Ever So Bow To Gary Stu Because Resistance Is Futile, when Plato wasn't preaching monotheism but Atheism, arguing all religion is wrong and humans are apes, much to the consternation of Creationists for 2,000 years.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@OneEyed_Jack A.k.a. unfathomable eldritch C'thulhu Logic.

[@robertjimenez5984]

I remember when I was a kid, I’m now 61, I will see movies of Jesus and tell my brother that Jesus was just following what he read in the scrolls. I told him to write in paper that tomorrow I will be sick and skip school. He will tell me, that’s stupid because you know what you have to do. Exactly, it’s stupid

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@ScottDCS]

Before work content. Great!

[@jerryhayes9497]

Excellent as always

[@jeffgraham9208]

Love the series, and especially the Can-Con. [edit] I also really (honestly) enjoy the amount of research I had to do during this presentation. Dopamine is awesome.

[@bendavid84]

I just love that jingle! It's now the default notification bell on my phone. 😀

[@hellonewman5855]

Reading the "prophecies" in their literary and historical context was the beginning of the end of my Christian faith. My first hearing of Kipp Davis. He seems every bit as interesting and informative as Christine Hays.

[@DrKippDavis]

That is high praise. Thank you.

[@theophilussogoromo3000]

Kipp Davis is Awesome.💯 Subscribed to his channel months ago.

[@ericconard7718]

Nom nom nom. Brain candy!! Loved the presentation and in-depth scholarly knowledge presented! Great collaboration. 😃

[@badelementofstyle5238]

Part of the reason they say Jesus was born in Bethlehem is the prophecies. His origin story names Bethlehem as foretold, but every other time he is referred to it is as a Nazarene, one from Nazareth. So they needed to make up a census and everyone head to back to their home town. This is not only not how census' work, but a clearly transparent way to get the birth to happen where it was prophesied...

[@SteveJones379]

Love it! Keep up the good work of deconstructing the bible!

[@devinbraun1852]

Great installment for the X-mas viewing season. The entire OT prophecy thing has always been a real head scratcher for me; unrelated and vague passages, usually taken in little snippet fragments. And if you read the birth narratives in MAT & LUK and don’t see that they are acts of creative writing, you need to go back to 5th grade and learn about literary genres again.

[@paulmcdevitt2038]

Wow, Kipp Davis really knows his stuff. He doesn’t pause or misstep in any way. Lee Stobel would be crushed in a debate with Kipp

[@DrKippDavis]

While this certainly represents my own research and ideas, I wrote my responses in advance and read them for the video.

[@paulmcdevitt2038]

Even so, impressively done. Plus, the content was incredible, well thought through, simple enough for others to follow and, most importantly, compelling

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

"Christian think tank" is a contradiction in terms.

[@emilygordbort7300]

First line from Paul and it's already gold

[@chaiman3761]

Great video. Cleared up my head about alleged prophesies. Hope you have a cool yule,

[@spike238]

Much rather celebrate the Winter Solstice , a simple , natural occurrence, without all the baggage associated to Christmas ,

[@autobotstarscream765]

I like the baggage, most of which was lifted from Yule, which is another name for Christmas but originally the name of the Norse Pagan holiday about Odin and his sons from which most of the Santa mythos and related consumerist traditions come from.

[@Venaloid]

Christianity is not a good sequel to Judaism; I'm very glad more people are pointing this out. Incidentally, I think this is also a problem for Mythicists who claim that Christianity was invented based on the Old Testament: the two just don't fit together.

[@TorianTammas]

Yeshuah did obviously do Dionysis miracle (water into wine), Asclepios ( healing miracle). So Jesus is a mixture of greek, Roman and Jewish elements.

[@Venaloid]

@@TorianTammas - These are not particularly specific miracles which indicate literary or theological dependence. Wine was a common staple item, like bread and fish, which Jesus is also said to have magically created: what other religious tradition did the bread and fish miracle come from on your view? As for healing, that was (and still is) an absolute staple of embellishment for real people, from the Roman Emperor Vespasian, to modern men like the Baal Shem Tov and Sathya Sai Baba. This is terrible evidence of religious syncretism as the origin of Christianity. Conversely, Jewish apocalypticism IS highly specific, and it is much more clearly adapted from Zoroastrianism, which teaches the same sequence of events with very similar characters. Likewise, the Genesis flood shares a highly specific plot and incidental details with older flood stories like the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Atrahasis story (the gods sending a flood, a select man building a boat, saving all the animals, and sending out birds to see if the waters had receded). This is the kind of parallelism which indicates religious syncretism, but which is simply not apparent in the gospels unless you do the same kind of motivated reading that Lee Strobel is doing. Overall, the story of Jesus is a bad sequel to Judaism, as I explained throughout my video on the subject. The gospels are much better understood as an apology for a failed Jewish messiah, which reinterpret the messiah's job description to make it compatible with a man who got killed by the Romans, and who did not reunite the Jews or rebuild the temple. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaXUoHp5Z5eMoc0

[@zencaser]

Thank you very much, Dr. Kipp. This was very enjoyable and interesting.

[@ITALJUTE]

Absolutely fascinating. I've just subscribed to Dr. Kipp Davis' channel. Brain food, mmm, delicious! Thanks, Paulogia.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

No, the saviour of the World was Flash Gordon.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

I think Danger Mouse or Captain Larry Dart both deserve the title of "Saviour of the World." Much better stories too 🙋🏼‍♀️

[@mrsatire9475]

Jesus could have spared millions of people from a lot of suffering by simply writing down a few good tib bits of information ... like wash your hands to prevent the spread of bacteria/viruses, natural remedies, how to create a battery, etc. Something useful, anything really

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

🎉🎄A festive Yuletide, Paul, and to all your viewers.🎄🎉

[@tonydarcy1606]

Yet another Christian apologist gets his facts wrong ! Why let the facts get in the way of a good yarn eh ? Especially if it's your living !

[@S0namus]

Definitely going to watch more from Dr. Kipp, the information he gave in this video is invaluable and very interesting on top of that

[@steved9128]

This man has important bible/reality info kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2i7o5Zno7Frjs0

[@S0namus]

LOL for anybody wondering, the link this guy posted is for some sort of reptilian conspiracy theorist channel Thanks dude but I already left one cult, don't wanna jump into another one.

[@sageohio1864]

the 100 mile, 10 day trip from Nazareth to Bethlehem destroys the entire no room in the inn story. why would they need housing when they would have been in a tent city outside of town with other pilgrims for the so-called census they would have traveled very comfortably especially with a 13yo 9 month pregnant girl with other families including their own family of 8

[@alethiacharis2480]

Jews also realize this, I got a book by a rabbi where he lines up the differences in them. And after listening to that rabbi, 8 started to understand why Jews get genuinely offended by Christianity😅 It really actually misrepresents what their Holy book says.

[@mmlunacy]

0:20 - I lolled. My kids will learn this soon enough!

[@laurajarrell6187]

Paulogia, this whole series has been great. And I love your rendering of Doctor Kipp! Who was great, too. And with your 'criteria', none of the so called prophesies in the Bible are good. And you guys show it. Strobel is a joke. But, he's making big bucks, his true goal.👍🥰💝✌

[@bdf2718]

Given that he converted because his wife talked him into it, I suspect he was pussy-whipped by a grifter.

[@laurajarrell6187]

@@bdf2718 LMAO. If a wife can make a man truly believe, she must have a good one! Though, whether he was ever a nonbeliever or if he really believes it now is extremely debatable! If he does, I'd bet he always did, but still is doing it for 'fame and fortune' , it is very profitable. (couldn't resist, given the title and video!) 👍🥰💝✌

[@bdf2718]

@@laurajarrell6187 You make it sound like you think he may be dishonest.

[@laurajarrell6187]

@@bdf2718 You understand me so well, lol!😘🥰💝✌

[@Elioc-ed6wr]

What evidence do you have to support that ALL of the "so-called" prophecies aren't prophecies at all? This video does a good job of pointing out how there are a lot of connections brought back to the Old Testament that aren't necessarily exclusive prophecies about Jesus. Take for example the Matthew 2:15 passage saying, "Out of Egypt I called my son." This clearly refers first to the nation of Israel first instead of Jesus. So why did Matthew claim this refers to Jesus? Because Jesus also fulfilled this prophecy. There's a lot of similar connections like this in the Gospels, which contributes to the consistent narrative of the whole Bible, of how God ultimately redeems humanity. Many of these prophecies are "doubly fulfilled." My counterpoint to "zero prophesies," what about Micah 5:2?

[@AltCtrlSpud]

wow this is awesome, giving exposure to a small but incredibly interesting and informative channel, I've already subscribed

[@tompatterson1548]

The first thing a critic would say about the first prophecy is “that’s about someone called Emmanuel, not Yeshua.

[@Devious_Dave]

Excellent vid. Strobel's confidence is based on a façade but it sells the product so why change?

[@UncleBildo]

New to ya. Good start. Kipp keeps popping up among my KZbinrs, seems like a decent dude.

[@DrKippDavis]

I am actually just obsessed with hearing the sound of my own voice.

[@UncleBildo]

heh heh heh, lucky as hell you are not just jabberin' in tongues or sumpin' then! Keep up the good work, always quite interesting!

[@kinglyzard]

20:50 Betula is also the genus name for birch trees.

[@pechaa]

That’s interesting. I wonder whether it has anything to do with a creation myth about women coming from birch trees or something.

[@michaeldeaton]

Right at the start you may have a mistake in the video in that you say James A Kugel, but his own book you show an image of says his name is James L Kugel.

[@benaziz5465]

Jesus Christ (pun not intended), this guy knows his shit!

[@realrealwarpet]

Even if the hands and feet thing was prophecy, it’d still be wrong. His wrists and ankles would have been pierced, and that wouldn’t be his cause of death. He would’ve suffocated to death. You cant bleed out if the thing impaling you is still IN you

[@autobotstarscream765]

The blood flow was supposedly provided by the Spear of Destiny, which was ostensibly too valuable to leave in him like a harpoon in Moby Dick.

[@mikenash7049]

On a tangent: when holding up two fingers to indicate the number two, do it with your palm facing away from you. Making a sign of two fingers with your palm facing towards you is the British equivalent of giving someone the middle finger.

[@Dan_C604]

Wow, what an amazing episode! This is gold. Thank you!

[@mjt532]

Ezekiel 25:17 points to only one person in history, Jules from Pulp Fiction.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Jules is one bad mother...

[@mjt532]

I heard the Virgin Mary was a bad mother too.

[@JohnDlugosz]

LOL, 'cause Proxima Centauri isn't visible in the Northern Hemisphere, even if you did have a telescope.

[@EdGloss]

For someone who didn't grow up studying the Talmud, you did a good job.

[@dapablo2]

Fortune telling is never a reason to believe anything, as though people could see the future, how so utterly absurd. "look at my tea leaves"

[@Ploskkky]

I always wondered whether Strobel was just an ignorant noob, or a disingenuous hack and fraud. After all this time he must have read and heard the many serious criticisms made by knowledgeable scholars, and still he repeats his bs. That makes me think he is the latter.

[@DrKippDavis]

I think Strobel-like so many of the prime-time apologists-has too much to lose at this point.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Strobel is like sooo many of these media type who find it too easy to sound sincere because they are incredulous that they can make such a comfortable living doing their shtick. An honest salesman (and they exist) will sell you something they see you can use. A conman will sell you anything else.

[@johnnehrich9601]

John glorifies Mark's holy preacher version of Jesus all the way to an eternal component of god, which when fitted in the nativity story, always makes me wonder what Jesus felt like inside Mary's womb for 9 months.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Not sure where Jesus was as part of the Trinity, when God did the deed. Maybe Jesus, just crawled in while the Angel was "asking" Mary about becoming pregnant.

[@cfletcher1030]

I enjoyed the exegesis involved. This is a quality channel.

[@whatabouttheearth]

MERRY CHRIST HITCHENSMAS!

[@cnault3244]

The old testament prophecies DO tell us that Jesus was not the messiah because he did not fulfill the required prophecies.

[@skwozies3083]

Exactly. Most of the "Prophecies" they use aren't even about Mashiach and they are almost always ripped out of context or had words changed to boot. You can't be more dishonest than the Christian Bible.

[@ObservantHistorian]

@@skwozies3083 So what this boils down to is that Christianity - a religion whose adherents are notorious for cherry-picking - is itself simply a load of convenient cherry-picking!

[@whorror_punx]

He said tippy top! The prophesy has come!!

[@chad969]

Paulogia, at 18:45 you list psalm 68:26 as one of the verses containing alma, but when I go to bible hub to look up the Hebrew I don't see alma or anything about a young woman or even a female. I've heard people reference this verse as one that contains alma before, so I'm really confused as to where that idea keeps coming from.

[@chad969]

I see now that the word alma shows up in verse 25, so I'm guessing it was just a mistake

[@Paulogia]

Also, Dr Kipp notes a few times that some different languages use slightly different verse numberings... as he supplied the references, it's possible he's using a Hebrew numbering. Or it's just a mistake. Appreciate you checking on us!

[@chad969]

@@Paulogia I see, thank you for the reply. keep up the great videos

[@onedaya_martian1238]

Good job Chad !!! I now learned that even the bible(s) are numbered differently. Cheers mate !! Merry Christmas. Never stop checking !!

[@chad969]

@@onedaya_martian1238 thanks and Mary Christmas to you too

[@noonespecial1178]

Sounds like the old testament was predicting [hopeing for ] a general rather then a savour .

[@onedaya_martian1238]

OT wanted another King, like that slimy David who plundered other groups, raped one of his top commander's wives, then had him killed, while having multiple wives and "concubines". That he is considered a "man after god's own heart" was one of the items on the list of "Why christianity sucks and I never could believe it". That the church songs talk about endlessly worshipping this "King", "Lord", "Master", "Father" is schite as well. FU drone-like followers.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@onedaya_martian1238 Take a deep breath, buddy, it sounds like Bronze Age Tribalism and Mesopotamian Imperialism are a little intense for your literary taste in stories. 😅

[@onedaya_martian1238]

@@autobotstarscream765 I'm chill. It is all the sermon's heard over the years where f'ing David is considered "great". No wonder dangerous leaders get voted into power. Religious faith causes brain damage.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@onedaya_martian1238 As far as I'm aware, David was considered "great" for the same reason as Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Leonidas, Xerxes, Julius Caesar, etc., were great: not because they were notable humanitarians, champions of human rights, or steadfastly upheld the Geneva Convention in the heat of battle, but because they got results, and David's whole schtick wasn't that he was a good guy, but rather that he was a "realistically" dark and edgy Game of Thrones sort of king who did bad things then felt bad about it and sang emo songs about smashing babies' brains out, hence why he's "after God's heart" but was unworthy in God's eyes to build God a temple and stamp the name of David on it, God wanted a palace of wisdom, not a skull throne built by a blood-soaked killer. If your preachers tried to pass David off as a saint, they're morons who missed the point, the Bible isn't the cute cuddly fairy tale they read kids in Sunday School, it's a pretty metal book closer to Conan the Barbarian.

[@onedaya_martian1238]

​@@autobotstarscream765 Very nice and understandable, logical explaination. However is this an apologetic for the OT "god/trinity" ? Preachers are mostly idiots, I just read from the bye-bull and 1 Samuel 13 says that after Saul effs up, David gets chosen by "mr. omniscient" because..see verse 14 Golly, if the bye-bull says it is True (tm) then it must be a fact David is like god ! When I listen to the (p)/(l)eacher schmucks it reminds me of American "wrestling" shows. All just a act to rile people up; the performance is as authentic as the "wine" baptists drink "at the lord's table". Ask these clown xtians if Uriah is in heaven, with "his" wife or with David, or if, without jebus, if Uriah is in heaven at all. Most don't even know that their bye-bull says the dead really won't know of earth "for they are like angels" Luke 20:35-36. This freaks out the xtian dog lovers who think their pets will "be 'up there' with them". Fking metal, er mental thinking right there.

[@ArmandKruger]

I resonate with the "No Pants" part

[@bryanfinegan5252]

Pretty much every time I see a discussion about Jesus I ask the same question and that is, what is the point of Jesus? Surely god can forgive sin which makes Jesus redundant!

[@reallifelegend4781]

That is to appeal to only one of God's attributes. However, he is not only perfect in mercy, but perfect in justice as well. He is not only perfect in grace, but perfect in his wrath. You must take God as a whole, and not disregard those things about him that you dislike.

[@69eddieD]

@@reallifelegend4781 Sounds like BS

[@reallifelegend4781]

@@69eddieD Well you're free to refute it if you think you can. If you think you can demonstrate how God can remain just while forgiving sin without punishing sin, then please have at it. I'd love to see how.

[@reallifelegend4781]

@@69eddieD So, nothing huh? I had that feeling.

[@TheHookahSmokingCaterpillar]

An excellent presentation!

[@henryschmit3340]

And yet, Immanuel (God with us) was manifested in the person of Jesus Christ. Obviously, no ordinary created man fits the description of "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father" (Isaiah 6,7) except Jesus, who, as we all know, was God Himself manifested in the flesh. Then we have the suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, who would bear the sins of many. Everyone knows that the sacrifice has to be pure and without blemish, and the only man to ever fit that criteria was Jesus, who was without sin. A righteous Holy Creator would not accept anything less. A sinner making attonement for another sinner doesn't work, because a sinner cannot even make attonment for himself. All men, except One, are sinners. The cartoon guy with the goatee has set himself up as some kind of guru who thinks he can outsmart God. He doesn't realize that better men than him have tried to discredit the scriptures, over thousands of years, and have completely failed. As Jesus, God Himself in the flesh, said "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words will never pass away" Matthew 24:35

[@michealfriedman7084]

Deuteronomy 24:16 16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Isaiah 43:11 10 “You are my witnesses,” says Yahweh, “With my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me. 11 I myself am Yahweh; and besides me there is no savior. 12 I have declared, I have saved, and I have shown; and there was no strange god among you. Therefore you are my witnesses”, says Yahweh, “and I am God. The four Gospels in the NT are written by educated Greek writers. They were not acquainted with or even seen Jesus. The names Mathew, Mark Luke and John were added in the 2nd Century by anonymous sources.

[@zxuiji]

"Same miracles"? Please elaborate on that, I don't see how walking on water or feeding 1000s with just a basket or 2's worth of food to divide among them or resurrecting himself could be considered the "same".