Old World Broke My Heart!

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In this Jay goes over Warhammer: The Old World and debates if he should get into it based on the price! We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday!
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[@EonsOfBattle]

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[@TheSonOfRyan]

You'll never get plastic ushabti if you don't support the game 😅

[@damn5987]

Yea, the US pays more for GW stuff. I got the tomb King box for $179 , including 20% VAT\Tax

[@user-nh5xf7mc3h]

40k

[@freman007]

The Bretonnian box is $515 in New Zealand.

[@TheSonOfRyan]

@@freman007 maybe you should try not having a ridiculously weak currency and a 15% import tariff?

[@afiblacksails23]

Back in the day when I built my tomb kings I used most of my extra heads and arms to make emerging skeletons that looked like they were clawing their way out of the ground just to squeeze out a few more models to pad my lines without any extra money. Only works with skeletons. Zombies and ghouls but it’s a great way to pad armies

[@PyromancerRift]

GW condoned padding the movement trays with dioramas who count as troops too

[@DziaduzLasu]

@@PyromancerRift They literally put article on WH Community how to do this...

[@jrizzo520]

@@DziaduzLasucondoned is the good one

[@DziaduzLasu]

@@jrizzo520 Damn, I'm dumb :)

[@jrizzo520]

@@DziaduzLasu nah you’re good. I had to google it to make sure because I always mix the two up. Have a great week!

[@scottcook6890]

“Should I focus on 40K?” Literally 9 seconds later… “tomb kings is happening this year” we love you Jay. We know the feeling

[@garbagecan755]

The 2000 points thing is actually a community thing. Way back in the day before GW even had suggested point levels and things most tournaments were run between 1750 and 2000 points because it's what the community arbitrarily decided was "a full size army". I actually remember back in the day people getting big mad about the shift from 1750 which 'Ard Boyz had standardized to 2000 because it would "remove the need to choose" lol. I miss being like 14 and playing warhammer like I knew what was up those were the days.

[@TheDysartes]

Originally it was 1500 points, then they started changing unit values and the point value for an army started to creep up.

[@San_Vito]

Yeah, during 4th and 5th edition tournaments were 1500 points. I stopped playing Warhammer during the beginning of 6th but I think that's when they started raising the point limit for tournaments.

[@thecappeningchannel515]

1999 points may be the new format. So, 3 cannons for dwarves, not 6, and 1 steam tank etc,

[@phil8821]

@@San_Vito 6th was the beginning of mass troops to fill out the points. Characters and magic items were limited compared to the earlier 50% of total points worth of characters and only 25% points minimum cost for rank and file models. That meant more $$$ for GW.

[@punknspunk]

I would just 3d print or buy alternatives for Old World. They're cheaper, better looking, and rn are the only option for some armies (looking at you wood elves). Or just use AoS models because they're up to date (though most of them are "Legends" in the Old World because GW is big dumb).

[@benjaminburton8135]

Ditto. Most of the private sculptors I've bought from do exceptional work. Printing got me into Epic 40k, and even at the scale the prints still look amazing.

[@Albinospenguin]

​@@benjaminburton8135 wich print are you using for epic ? I am really curious

[@benjaminburton8135]

@@Albinospenguin Print as in which printer I use? I have an Anycubic Photon Zero resin printer set to 0.03mm layer height. It's an older model that is outpaced by the Anycubic mono which now retails at the same price, but the price for both is very reasonable (mine ran me $100 on sale). My zero's resolution is currently set to 480px (x) by 854px (y). It works pretty well for epic and super well for Battlemace 42 million if you know what I mean. If you are in the market for a resin printer, the Anycubic mono series is pretty affordable, easy to operate and maintain, and works great with several resin types. I usually use Resione's TH72 flex for epic; it holds good detail and is super durable. I hope this helps!

[@mjhsinclair]

There are a lot more 2nd hand and 3rd party options out there than for other games and you can do things like Unit Fillers, which GW themselves have promoted on Warhammer Community, to bulk out your army. I think the way to approach Old World if you're starting from zero and price-sensitive is to build a hybrid of the GW kits you like the most and good proxies. I think a creative Eons of Battle project would be to build an Old World army at a reasonable cost, while still jimmying the right jams.

[@wolftrem4206]

So you missed the pre orders, everything sold out. You only grabbed 1-2 kits. Should really be the beginning of a small series totally agree

[@gekalskip]

Highland Miniatures seems a million times better than GW anyway

[@thepenismightier]

Pro tip. Other companies make Egyptian undead as well as Knights. You could even look into doing Old World at 10mm and use Warmaster STLs.

[@MrBlueSleeves]

Yup. Can even pull out the ED printer

[@JabborWacky]

Yup, kings of war has this already covered. Much better skeletons, but will need to buy appropriate sized bases.

[@dscorpion7582]

The main issue for me is that they’re charging quite a bit for models that haven’t aged gracefully. Some like the Tomb Guard have aged fairly well, but that starter set for TK, I can’t spend nearly $300 for 30+ sculpts like that.

[@Scoob609]

$105 AUD for 3 peg knights. GW are like, hey you want the old world so we've brought it back kinda.. but we also brought back our business mentality from back then too. surprise!

[@underarmbowlingincidentof1981]

especially with some of the bretonnian levy cavalry dudes. 5 dudes for 60+ euros. I can get 2 and a half boxes of perry miniature knights for that that give me more customizability. I was actually excited for Old World but I guess I'm sticking with OPR rules and simply modidfying them if I want more of them.

[@deankirkpatrick7658]

@@underarmbowlingincidentof1981 I am just getting the rules and firing up the 3d printer

[@phil8821]

@@underarmbowlingincidentof1981 It's outrageous. I'll keep my third edition army made mostly by Perry miniatures and firefox.

[@regorminiatures8059]

@@Scoob609 brought back? GW always have that mentality

[@FrozenThrog]

Victrix is starting a medieval range. If Shaun wants some knights that won't break your bank, then that is an excellent option. Stick them on the classic sized bases, and you also have figures fit for any other game you can imagine.

[@Swindondruid2]

I use a lot of Victrix figures (for SAGA warbands) and they are excellent sculpts. £30 for 12 knights before you even look for a discount.

[@Haroith]

If even Jay tells about the cost... It is really too expensive!

[@cyberash3000]

Nah just use mantic miniatures and Highland models. Like I do. I made an undead army a 3000 + vampire coubts army for about 350 squiddlys double that gor an army half the size I'm doing a dwarf army so far I've got 20xslayers 20 hammerers and 3 war engines 69 quid

[@arkilyd]

@@cyberash3000 Printer goes BRRRR

[@timunderbakke8756]

@@arkilydnot everyone has a place to handle the fumes. The printer is not the universal fix it’s cultists make it out to be

[@DartmoorAR]

Aside from that oddly inexpensive lich Priest.

[@Camikaze7]

@@timunderbakke8756 fume fearmongering is greatly exaggerated, it's reallly not that deep mate, open a window and touch some grass. Calling any mention of 3d printing a cult is funny, it's okay to not always want to buy severely marked up plastic

[@torkarlsson7672]

I feel like they're gonna make old world so expensive that nobody can afford buying it, and then nuke the setting again because of it.

[@Albinospenguin]

The setting is already nuked, old world is set before the end times

[@SoASeraphim]

they did not expect the demand for old world. sadly that means support will be delayed if it happens at all. Still hopeful though, even with end times looming at the end

[@CaptainFancyCat]

@@SoASeraphim for months the social media managers have been muting people who ask about or comment on Old World. It’s 100% being sabotaged from within. It’s similar to how modern Star Wars staff hate the original trilogy. AoS is their baby and any demand for the old is a personal insult to them.

[@JohnathanJWells]

​@@CaptainFancyCat That makes no sense. Why spend millions of dollars on a project to kill it.

[@therealgreg5653]

​@@JohnathanJWells Its not their money, its the companies money they are wasting, they just need make sure the blame does not fall on them. The 9th edition Box and the Horus Heresy Box both had better bang for your buck and were clearly design pull in players. This seems like quick cash grab of reprinting old models and selling for new model price.

[@ameliafeyparsons4816]

The price, lack of faction support, lack of many new models, and more have definitely done a pretty good job at killing my excitement.

[@Ghost3210]

I used Mantic models for Warhammer Fantasy after it was killed, I used the same models for Mordheim/Broheim, Kings of War, Kings of War Vanguard, Dungeon Saga, the 9th Age, Frostgrave and all the fantasy One Page Rules game settings... so for Old World I will still use the Mantic versions, as they were made with Warhammer Factions in mind. I currently own Ogres (+Red Goblins) and a lot of Ratkin (Skaven). So investing in some Orcs for a larger Greenskins force would be a grand start. Also Abyssal Dwarves (Chaos Dwarves) always looked very tempting.

[@rump438]

Not having the skaven in old world is INSANE

[@grimjack9139]

They're going to come back soon enough. In the current lore they just aren't as active.

[@22bodach]

what are u talking about there is no such thing as skaven

[@ArnoVdVelde]

With Skaven being so popular... I can't help but feel a big Skaven reveal for Age of Sigmar has to be around the corner. Makes sense to hit the skaven this year after doing lizard last year. And... Skaven really need and deserve it.

[@paulreid5746]

that plus them recycling so many old models already has it dead on arrival for me

[@rupertjones5197]

They’ll come in time dude, just get through the “core” and if it’s a success they’ll add them, you can still play them just not in gw tournaments

[@minihali]

My friend gave me an almost complete box of Battle for skull pass about 4 years ago, and I just got the last few models I was missing for a complete set. What has actually gotten me very excited to paint the set is that you are allowed to "proxy" models in your battlelines with unit fillers, which are basically just a bit of terrain you put into your battleline to bulk it out. Which I'll be all over. You can be damn sure I'll make a small diorama for my slayers when I get the chance to!

[@NoizeViolation]

Mantic's Kings of War (and most other rank and file wargames, afaik) have always let you do these mini-dioramas to help fill out bases. Nothing new.

[@AlexUCP]

Damn the US prices are nuts... In Europe it's almost 30% less if I'm not mistaking... Damn. Well, Jay, I have a challenge for you : How about 2000pts of old world tomb kings fully 3D printed? 🤣 For real, even counting the resin you can get away with what, 150, 200 bucks for a full 2000 points ? That's something I would totally watch, even as a full multi episode hobby project 🤟

[@makeytgreatagain6256]

Is currency is lower. As to say 300USD is like 270 pounds

[@michaeltunnicliffe4935]

I have been very hostile towards 3D printing in the past. But recently, with GW unable to make enough of certain models, and charging the earth for some of it too, I'm finally ready to admit that 3D printing might be the future after all. I've already turned to several 3rd party companies for cheaper alternatives and bought many 3D printed models. So I agree, I'd rather see Jay try to make a brand new Tomb Kings army using new more modern 3D sculpts and paying like a third if not a quarter of the price. That would be an interesting video.

[@AlexUCP]

@@makeytgreatagain6256 We use euros in my country, not pounds, and 1€ is pretty close to 1 dollar, and for exemple the base box in France cost 230€ for Khemri, which is still a lot for these old models (while being "cheap for GW" for a more than a 1000points box). And that takes into account 20% of taxes, cause you know, France. But once again, the prices in the US are another story 💀

[@AlexUCP]

@@michaeltunnicliffe4935 and there's so much options for some factions, like greenskins and tomb kings for exemple. Especially considering the old skellies, who are a nightmare to clean up and assemble, printing might even be faster with a solid machine, depending on the brand you choose 💀

[@makeytgreatagain6256]

well for once the US gets price gouged.as a PC gamer i have had to witness Nvidia charge Americans 500 dollars for an GPU but upcost it to 1.2k in europe. So at least one company gives them the L @@AlexUCP

[@SoASeraphim]

Those are prices i remember for an army, it was always costly. But for a pick up game you rarely played 2k points fantasy. We will see how much faster the new rules will be. Metal was always soooo expensive... and as you saw 40k is not cheaper if you start from scratch. There is just the advantage that most is already in plastic. I ordered the rulebook and the forces of fantasy to bring back my dwarves and lizardmen. sadly the later will only be legacy but thats enough for FLG play. Too bad GW shafted Hobby shops and all non gw orders will probably be delayed Hoping to see Old World Content from you ;-) thanks for all the great videos

[@euansmith3699]

I imagine that Jay and Shaun having lunch is like Bond verbally sparring with Blofeld over caviar and vodka.

[@zilpzalpmukkefukk]

I imagine them like they probably sat in the high school cantine :D with lunch boxes and a White Dwarf magazine :D

[@euansmith3699]

😍@@zilpzalpmukkefukk 👍

[@chrisbanks1710]

Who's got the cat on their lap?

[@micharybowski4911]

Black Templars, Mr. Jay? How utterly predictable...

[@euansmith3699]

😆😆😆@@micharybowski4911

[@ger5956]

No chance in hell am I paying 2024 GW prices for models from 1993 😒

[@11AleZZ]

This

[@oskar6661]

And you don't have to - tons of excellent 3D print (or even plastic) alternatives out there to build armies that'll fit fine in the Old World, etc.

[@k9games721]

the money has killed any further interest in GW

[@kebertxela7819]

The 2024 prices for Old World models are pretty much exactly the same as the prices from 1993 if you adjust for inflation. Not taking a side, just saying.

[@11AleZZ]

@@kebertxela7819 yeah but in 1993 the models weren't 30 years old, that's the difference

[@henkrpe3249]

Brettonians are around 6 boxes of ~$35 minis back in the day, and a lord/monster for ~$35. That's about $250 in perhaps mid 2000-s pricing, so the box price isn't too bad. There's just no megadiscount over regular boxes like the recent starter sets.

[@piotrkarp9562]

It is bad. Back in 00 those models were top quality. Now it's 'meh' at best. You literally would buy old crt tv in price of modern plasma 5k cause it was fun to have one back when we'll were kids? It's robbery. It was too expensive when we're kids and now it's just preying on ouers sentiments. Horrid stuff...

[@RavenSaint1]

I remember spending like $400 on my first WH armies. Bretonnia and Undead. Cavalry boxes (8 miniatures each) for both, dragons for both (metal, not plastic), Commanders (metal), and loads of foot soldiers in 2 boxes (about 20 for each army) and it took me a few months to paint them to my standards at the time. After that I got a few space marines, eldar, Necromunda (first came out), a bunch of the snotling collection of shenanigans (siege engine, swarm, and a smash 'm up group with spears and bows for two units, which makes me wish I still had them all.) So many of the Old World look like the old plastics I had back then. I would just paint the miniatures then sell the armies or units I didn't want to keep, to buy more to paint and sell. Now, I just want to paint and I ended up buying the same (or similar) miniatures and amount of paint that I started with nearly 25 years ago when I first walked into a Games Workshop store. Now, Games Workshop wonders why so many miniature gamers are turning to the 3D printing for their armies. I just paid $3000 to restart my old hobby of painting again. This included space marines (Blood Angels and Chaos Combat Patrols) and 2 Sigmar starter boxes. I looked at pricing for 3D printers after I finished getting the boxes and supplies. I kicked myself for the fact I could have cut my costs in half with a quality 3D printer and supplies for starting that up, plus the supplies (paints, tools, and desk top organizer kits) that I had bought. My $3000 could have been $2200 spent and I would have been printing more miniatures than what was in the 4 boxes I had just bought at $200+/- each.

[@leeboy007b]

I pulled the trigger and bought the Brettonian box. I’m in the UK so it’s about $30 dollars cheaper here. Just love the look of ranked up units!

[@gangrenemccluster7680]

Isn't the price one of the biggest things that killed fantasy battles to begin with? Seems like they haven't learned from their mistakes

[@infinitedm5396]

Well making it a specialist game means they don't need to worry about putting too much financial weight behind it. Besides the games aimed squarely at grognards who already have armies. This isn't to get new players as much as to appease old ones.

[@northerner3861]

@@infinitedm5396, but as a grognard... I already own almost everything in the Bretonnian starter box. So the appeasement factor is pretty minimal!

[@Retrosicotte]

Appeasing older players is sure going well when they killed off a full third of some of their most popular factions from the game a day before orders went live, lmao@@infinitedm5396

[@Perkustin]

Something to bear in mind is that in 8th the size of regiments you needed was prohibitively expensive, adjusting for inflation (i.e. using your 2015 Warhammer Purchasing Power Quotient haha), and in some cases without, for example those Tomb Guard were more or less the same price for 20 back in the day and 20 was on the low side in 8th.

[@jamesclarke5331]

​@@infinitedm5396 its not a great financial move, to market something that most people have. They've released it because of the popularity of total war warhammer! A song of Ice and Fire has also done quite well as a rank and flank fantasy game.

[@mitcheldaniels5493]

Definitely like the Old Hammer feel of the Old World but I am 100% skipping this game. The hobby is already too pricey. Keep doing what you are doing brother and thank you for all of the great content!

[@Fr0stguard]

I was excited for old world tomb kings until they unveiled that they weren't redoing the range to be new modern sculpts for the majority of units.

[@Krishtov830]

Minimal effort from them. So sad, cash grabs for old models and armies that were hard to find. Beastmen and Wood elves to come.

[@mrblorch1342]

​@@Krishtov830😊

[@n.kosters4757]

Lazy bastards

[@SwitchTalkChannel]

It was my understanding that most people wanted the OLD sculpts. That's the whole point of the Old World. What did you want? Just square base gaming system? Just use the fan-made one, or rework Sigmar with square bases/movement trays. You can literally do that yourself in a few months, or if you friend a friend who knows what he's doing. I wanted all the old armies back with old models. Wood Elves, High Elves, Orcs & Goblins, Vampires! They already brought new Tomb Kings back in about 2012 and nobody bought them or cared by this time and late-stage Fantasy rules. But, there are still a fair number of Fantasy players. If you don't care about square base rules or the old models, then why not just play Sigmar? Is it just the Old World lore? You can pretty much homebrew your own lore or Fantasy lore over Sigmar quite easily for your local gaming group, etc. P.S. I really wish the custom Tomb King dice came in the big set. That would almost justify the price. As it stands, it's easily $30-50 too much! (Of course, it's always more money in America compared to England, as well. It's even more money in Aussieland.)

[@laurencepenfold]

I'd like to get an Old World army, but I'm waiting to see what the other factions get in way of an army box.

[@Ghost3210]

Also you may want to look into Mantics Kings of War range... they have some great army boxes with proxy models 😎👍

[@vincentwiddershoven2122]

My advice: check 2th hand onlinegroups. With the upcomming "old world" allot if people are starting to sell there old Warhamner fantasy armys. (I am, lol.)

[@sunnycaljon5319]

Im excited for wood elves

[@kraftyevan]

Though it is the modern day with old sculpts and GW has inexcusable prices most of the time, the new old world boxes are actually some of their best prices in a long time. They are actually in tune with both the Tomb Kings and the Bretonnian Battalion boxes from the 2000s and actually when accounting for inflation it's cheaper to buy those boxes then it would have been to buy the equivalent through the battalions (The outer circle talks about this iirc). The biggest issue is that it is a massive initial investment, but the price for the massive box is surprisingly really good considering it matches the pricing of around mid-2000s GW.

[@gavinjames1145]

I remember spending a tonne of pocket-money (about £90) back in the early-to-mid-'90s to buy _Space Hulk_ , which, adjusted for inflation, would cost between £180-200 in today's money.

[@bosik111]

I think they went with that price because they're pricing it as specialist game, not their flagship products where they would want to get new people into the game. They understand that most of buyers will be old vets who see the game through nostaldia glasses and are fine with lower quality models if they finally get back to old world instead of AoS.

[@kushtaker89]

Event so, paying this kind of "discount price" for 20+ yo models is... shitty

[@MarkTayloroutdoors]

Yes to the tomb kings, who doest love a skeleton hoard 😄 I hear you on the cost, and old horses are pretty bad, but they do have nostalgia for me as I'm old enough to remember them the first time around.

[@mcboshoff6755]

Hey Jay!!!, I have a idea for you, seeing that Space Marine 2 is releasing this year and Henry Cavil is getting a 40k Movie or Series, I think allot of people are going to be tempted to try painting minis, i know you have some guides, but you have grown allot since then, and some top quality Beginners Guide To 40K Mini Painting will help allot, Like the tools needed, most needed paints and so on!!! Love the Vids Keep them up!!

[@ksrknwht300klls]

I should ask: what about 3rd party? I bet the mantic empire of dust would look alright close to the rest of the tomb kings minis and it would save you some money on those damn skellingtons

[@staalforsfh]

I think Old World is too hype driven atm. I try to resist the hype train and get more responsible with my hobby budget, and ancient (sometimes downright UGLY) sculpts at these prices... While we have a fantasy game like AoS putting out the best models in the business on a monthly basis? Sorry, I just can't.

[@TheDelta07sev]

I was so glad you mentioned the lego horse, my first thought when that chariot cam on screen was an old lego Knights set with a carriage pulled by skeleton horses 😂😂

[@johnmartin7705]

I have a Bretonnian Army from back in the day. I’m not worried about the old plastic because it would be new to me. I stopped playing when those plastics came out. That said, I got the Tomb Kings box (for the rules) and making a new army. TBH, rebasing seems like a larger hurdle.

[@natecar1]

I'd personally rather just buy a MAntic or TTCombat mega army for half the price. Sculpts are of similar quality to these (other then the couple new hero units to be fair).

[@timunderbakke8756]

100% GW modern sculpts are the best in the business, it’s true and it’s part of why I am ok with my 40k pricing (as long as I don’t start a whole new army) BUT…. More recent Mantic sculpts are better than old GW and are super solid. Some of the older mantic is rough (Basilean cavalry) but the new empire of dust or the northern alliance has me craving a fantasy army

[@natecar1]

@@timunderbakke8756 yeah I'm ok with GW prices (or have made my peace with them) since their newer stuff is top tier. But to charge that same premium price for kits that have been around since I was single digits is really pushing it

[@vectorshaman338]

300 for that box and more than half the spues are marked from 1993. They are on bathsalts at GW. Last box for me was Ashes of Faith. 3d printing everything going foward for both terrain & minis.

[@darthkek1953]

GW are on bathsalts? Wait and see every single one of these boxes sell out.

[@tarscase7653]

Yeah pull the other one mate. I guarantee you don't have a 3d printer and if you do, it creates low quality crap.

[@oggej3747]

Jesus christ! You Americans really got screwed over with those over seas prices huh… I payed 175 for mine…

[@parabot2]

@@tarscase7653 3d Printing is very very good these days , very easy and the quality is excellent ( add the huge price savings and it's a win-win for those who are into 3d printing )

[@ilyagorbunov8683]

@@tarscase7653 Dude, actually do some research and be amazed at how good resin printers are

[@niffelheimmiehleffin9800]

Hey Jay! I want to learn to play tabletop !What do Think i should learn first?

[@Nada-Mal]

I've still got two full WFB Armies.(Bretonnian and Lizardmen), so I'll put them on the table and try the new rule set out. I don't really plan on spending much on TOW though, as I have literally ran out of model storage space in my hobby room so my purchasing is on hold until I sell at least one or two old 40k armies.

[@StiveGuy]

While I'm not particularly interested in The Old World, some of the models look pretty slick.

[@theemissary1313]

I agree, but some of the models look pretty ass...

[@ronitabick961]

If GW is too expensive and the Tomb Kings are old, why not buy alternative miniatures? Mantic's Kings of War has awesome minis in their Empire of Dust line that would be great replacements for the Tomb Kings

[@Sandrip3926]

those are indeed some good substitutes

[@ulfhazelcreek8108]

You should do what you get joy out of. Your infectious joy is what keeps me watching. And to me, seeing you kitbash together Tombkings out of Necrons and Soulblight or whathave you would be amazing.

[@graefx]

I remember starting out, the Assault on Black Reach or Battle for Skull Pass was $60. If you split that with a friend, cheap brush set and apple barrel paints, you could get rolling for $35. And even back then I got WarmaHordes because it was cheaper. GW has really lost perspective on making toys for kids and kids at heart. In the grand scheme maybe $500 for a full army isn't unreasonable but it feels like we've lost the plot

[@shadowolfnara4749]

Some of these tomb kings can be found cheaper on resales then nib

[@shadowslayer7892]

I lost all interest when I saw they weren't actually bringing back all the armies

[@IcarusGames]

I wasn't really too bothered about Old World until the pre order went up and I started seeing it everywhere and I got completely swept up in the hype. I've wanted a Bretonnian army for like 20 years but there's no way I'm paying modern GW prices for sculpts that have been around for longer than I've been in the hobby. It's times like these I'm real glad I own a 3d printer. . .

[@anxiousandworrying1]

don't even need the printer the whole reason brets got squatted is because it's basicaly impossible to to defend the IP of "knight with Authurian special sauce" Fireforge games has most of the range covered

[@oskar6661]

Yeeeep...Highland Miniatures is doing some gorgeous Bretonnian alternatives.

[@sleeplessknight99]

Perry miniatures have some relatively affordable historical minis that can provide adequate proxies.

[@PrimordialNightmare]

aren't the prices more in line with 8th edition / 2015 prices? I mean, still fairly pricey but not necessarily "modern"

[@Miniac]

​@@PrimordialNightmare When I bought WHFB the prices were consistent across all factions. A 20 man unit of plastic infantry was $35 USD. a 10 man unit of pewter elite models was $45. These new prices are a far cry from 2015.

[@alivecertified]

Your videos made me buy some black templars and some kill team stuff to try and learn and build and paint up, what would I need for a black templar kill team?

[@timunderbakke8756]

Your experience is what I’ve had every time I’ve said “maybe I can start another 40k army”. And then I said no, never, it’s the armies I have already only. I *might* make an exception for Knights if I’m scooping them up secondhand like I got my only kit for them so far

[@rupertjones5197]

As someone who missed it first time around and as I’ve lost allot of interest in 40k and never liked AOS I’m very excited for the old world. I’ve been painting up 3d minis and will 100% be purchasing empire minis when they’re released. So refreshing to have the old back! Ngl I think the price of the boxes is good value. It’s ALLOT of minis and you’ll have a full army to play plus the books which are lovely quality too. Some of the minis on their own are expensive. I think you forget sometimes that armies are to be build over months if not years for the casual player/hobbyist. It isn’t our jobs and we get round to it when we have time and some spare cash. 500 dollars isn’t bad for a full army though, like you said the necromancy would be over 250 more plus you’ve already got the books from the starter box

[@MikeGeney]

movement trays for AOS based models is the only thing standing between me and a Warriors of Chaos TOW list. Unit fillers for the rank and file and some clever kitbashin for a chaos dragon and maybe a couple vintage hellcannons? yeah i could see myself in it.

[@jimturner8567]

So glad I live in the UK and pay a lot less for Warhammer. Managed to pre-order the Bretonnia box for £124! Be great to see you paint up some tomb king 👍

[@wardy940]

How the hell did you get like £30 off? I missed out anyway. Spent an hour in a queue, only to find out most of the stuff is sold out.

[@theinternetofrandomthings7796]

Same here, thought it was a pretty good deal at that price.

[@puzzlejinx]

You don't have to buy every single thing GW puts out. I know the FOMO is strong but some of these sculpts are like 20+ years old lmfao

[@zome9844]

I highly recommend that jay and other people that want to get into old but don't want to pay GW prices go to Lost Kingdom miniatures because they literally have updated resin tomb kings and other armies!

[@skinniestfatman5641]

those lost kingdom knights are fantastic, fell in love with the Standard bearer and the wing Pegasus models

[@rykerm4249]

I am going into it with a friend from work. Fantasy was the hobby dragon I was chasing when I was a kid, and seeing the old box arts in my local game store. The pros I personally have with the game outweigh the cons so I am getting into it

[@cfeduke]

I already had a large Tomb Kings army, but I've already converted it to Kings of War. I will pick up the Sphinx though, I missed that model when it released and I'd really like to use it in KoW. I did pick up the Bretonnians because who doesn't want French represented as humans? (And I've always wanted a Bretonnian army for Fantasy.) I will supplement the additional models with 3D prints, this is strictly for the painting experience and display.

[@DanielKling]

I don't know, I don't think the price is too much compared to what you normally would pay for gw armies. Trying to get your hands on those boxes though, that's the challenge

[@sybert1138dzc]

For $240, $120 if you’re a Paetron, you can buy all the files for the OPR Mummified Undead army and print an entire 2000 point army for less than the starter box. GW pricing just blows my mind.

[@alexanderg4824]

Giving the fact that Gw is a company with over 100+ employees and need to make money in order to pay said employees. While on the other hand the stl companies have perhaps at most 20 employees if that. I can see why you need to charge more for models in order to stay a healthy company. The stl files look cool so buy them if you want. Keep in mind you need to buy the printer, resin , ect.

[@sybert1138dzc]

@@alexanderg4824 the cost of a printer, a wash and cure station, resin, and the files mentioned above is still less than the cost of a 2000 point list for any GW game. Warlord, Corvus Belle, Atomic Mass Games, Reaper… all these companies have employees and physical products. GW has licensing deals like Video Games and the Amazon deal to generate even more revenue. If you’ve the money and want to spend it on their stuff then go for it, but don’t apologize for their price gouging.

[@jaysonhuckaby6323]

@@alexanderg4824 Then explain whhy other miniature companies charge a third to half the price of comparative models. Also please explain how they can justify supposed 2024 prices on models with prexisting desigins and injection molds already created from decades ago. Also please explain the cost of said plastic.... which is cents on the dollar ...... let me help you its called being a publicly traded company that needs to appease shareholders. THAT IS WHERE ALL THE MONEY REALLY GOES.

[@Fuzzycat16]

A bit curious. I've been watching some of your old videos and in one of them you mention Sororitas. Is an Adepta Sororitas army still a project for the far future?

[@getterkaiserz]

the thing that bumps the price up for these boxes is the rulebooks, arcane journal, dice and other bits and bobs aside from models. But i dont disagree its a bit much at one go for me. Luckily i still have a decent bit of O&G, Empire, and High elves. Alot of my stuff is back from 6th, plastics included. Also if your just playing with each other, id just go 3d print. I just bought some highland minis 'not empire' and their undead, and man are they dank.

[@Gerod253]

For me, I’m not diving in right away. I’m going to wait for the FOMO to wear off and things settle down somewhat. However, when I do I’ll be taking advantage of unit fillers and kitbashing to get as much of my Bretonnia Army as possible in plastic. This release still has me excited, but the money means it’ll be a slow grow experience that I’ll have to make sure to savor like a fine wine.

[@KneeCapHill]

Be mindfull of the fact that FOMO was the only thing propping up HH and now that the fomos is gone so is the traction for the system. Which means... the fomo might be justified because if people don't buy now GW might realize later that they don't have the means to support yet another game system and will quietly let it wither again

[@Gerod253]

@@KneeCapHill definitely a concern. I agree. Given how things have been selling out, however, I’m not too worried about it I don’t plan on sitting out too long. I’m just tired of fighting the whales and scammers for a single box on launch day like I’ve done for the past few releases for various games/companies I’m interested in.

[@KneeCapHill]

@@Gerod253 gw should really start making-to-order.

[@Gerod253]

@@KneeCapHill agreed. If they did a kickstarter style campaign for some releases, but doing it ‘in house’ then they, and we, could have a much better understanding of demand. Allow people to see how many sets of each have been ordered and how much money has been raised and the hype would blow them out of the water. At least that’s my belief.

[@harrybrass734]

I would love to see some old world content! I much prefer fantasy models over the sci-fi models

[@crosslayer102389]

Hey jay I'm not sure if youve ever painted an Angron, cant find one on your channel, but id love to see your take on him.

[@Jewus19]

the investment in money, space and time to start a new fantasy army is beyond what I am willing to invest personally. I also recently dove into 3d printed 10mm warhammer armies project. for 100€ I get a very nice choice 2000pts army that fits perfectly in any small box, easy to paint, easy to transport and store. The table required is also only half the size. It satisfies all my warhammer fantasy needs without the painful entry.

[@bigfil1981]

I'm tempted but I'd use an army from Mantic instead.

[@oskar6661]

Oathmark is a laughably good deal by comparison, and some of their lines are similar.

[@finiteenergy7155]

Time to get more into 3D printing 😅

[@Silvertaurus_]

2024 was ment to be your Drukhari year. Make it also "I have resisted!" year ;-) Jumping on some scrimish game team here or there is cool side gig .. but new game, new army - it would be long term commitment.

[@timkline162]

In my club, most players would usually just do the first rank or 2 with actual models, and then fill up the rest of the movement trays with empty bases to count as the other troops you need to fill up the unit. Makes it a lot more economical to build up a a full army, and over time you can eventually upgrade those empty bases to real models and your time and budget allows.

[@timunderbakke8756]

If you really want a fantasy army, you should look at Kings of War from Mantic Games. They’ve had it out for a while and been the solid fantasy rank+flank alternative. They have Empire of Dust as an alternative Tomb King faction, and it’s costing a lot less. Theres a cool small scale 2p starter set available that’s Empire of Dust versus Ogres…. But plot twist, the ogre are considered neutral so you can play them alongside your own EoD. Mantic also has really good value boxes called “mega armies” which is a huge chunk of points for $150ish. Way better dollar to plastic ratio

[@RyanEdwardsVA]

As Jay himself pointed out some time ago, Mantic really is the big winner when it comes to dollars to plastic. That Empire of Dust mega army pack would indeed be a damn swell way to get a solid start on Tomb Kings, and they look quite nice.

[@winder2793]

Dont surrender to Fomo. You are an influencer bringing up a good point. Make a good financial choice. Be a good example and steer the community towards not being taken advantage of. You having a spine and saying "NO. these prices are unnaceptable, bar none" gives others the courage to make good financial choices as well. If you have a pile of shame, do that.

[@RobbieB2606]

Well said. I've stopped buying recently - the prices are insane and the release schedule is relentless.

[@NateJones10]

I've played warhammer fantasy since 3rd edition, going on 35 years. 2000 points was what organically occurred around 5th to 6th edition. At 8th edition we were playing around 2500-2800 in tournaments. GW was hands off on this stuff back then. They only recently since 40k 8th have been setting more structure. The 2000 point suggestion here is throwback to the oldschool players.

[@pqfire0950]

Okay so, as a 40k player whos never touched any of the GW fantasy games what do you think i should look at? Old world or age of sigmar?

[@Choom7]

Beastmen work in both!

[@gyriongyrion4623]

I love EoB, I just personally would say for variety it might be nice to see you guys do some Non Sci Fi to mix it up more. OnePageRules? Kings of War? ASOIAF? Oathmark? Frostgrave?

[@kosachilles2504]

Nah, I'm playing Frostgrave now

[@TheStonehammerFiles]

If the rule book hadn't sold out for preorder, I would have gotten the three books and not the arcane journals then 3d print my armies. But it was sold out so in order to get the book I had to preorder the Bretonnian box set. Thankfully I went through a third party and got it for around 215 or so plus the two army books. I ended up spending around 300 bucks.

[@dfoos]

One quick skuggestion is to pick up a couple of boxes of the Rune Wars starter boxes. I got several for about 20.00 a piece. They have some great undead models and some that could totally be used as generic medeval humans. Either fill in for the Empire or Britannia. The box is FULL of many good miniatures that have round bases, but fit into square bases that are cut out for the rounds to fit inside the squares. Mostly for entire line of troops, but they clip together so you can put them in ranks, or even just lines. The game is OOP, so there were many deals online for the new boxes. I ended up buying EVERY box, including extra troops, and the Elves and Abomination Army. I bought this all about a year ago. The cheapest thing was the starter box with the two armies. Good size for Old World. They are a bit flexible but are not too floppy. Very nice sculpts.

[@mysteriousstranger5873]

I bought Perry miniatures Agincourt knights to proxy bretonnia with actual historical knights for like a third of the price. It’s 30 ish bucks for 36 models of foot knights and 30 ish for 12 mounted knight (I think?) and I’m going to just 3D print the various other fantasy units that can’t be covered by historical models

[@jacobdobrowski3166]

I feel like Old World is just going to make Mantic's fantasy armies a lot more popular. So much cheaper for essentially the same models.

[@whiskers1138]

100% adding my voice to the "Use Mantic's Empire of Dust models" suggestions. You can always use WFB heroes.

[@KossolaxtheForesworn]

Im mainly interested in the bretons my self. mainly since I already have an army of those and hero models is what I need. since the ToW takes place earlier they are not gonna be the ones we had (so no Louen Leoncoeur for me) but there should be some neat old characters there that will appear at some point.

[@Silverdragon83X]

The prices are not that high at all in comparison to newer kits and to the old prices of the old kits. The problem is more, that they mainly use old kits, especially the skeleton-based kits have not aged that well. But I love the Bretonia kits, they have aged much better and were extremely rate and expensive to get after AoS began...

[@simonorourke4465]

My main gripe with old world is that my favorite army the vampire counts has been sent to the legecy corner. I do like many of the armies that are included and I have always enjoyed the tomb kings, but Vampirs counts were my number one faction by a large margin.

[@crosshaireyes]

One page rules regiments is all you need my man!

[@wmerriamoandreww]

I feel like Jay is either drinking the GW koolaid or he is just price blind. GW is just dumb expensive. Love you Jay, never change.

[@The_belligerant_servo_skull]

the fact that people aren't completely rejecting this whole release show how good GW marketing is and how cucked the customer base has become.

[@mrmaat]

They really are completely captured by GW. Their customer base is happy to pay 5-6x competitive pricing for lower quality sculpts that are almost 30 years old. And GW won’t even release the whole range in plastic. It’s insulting and lazy.

[@Karazu1kun]

It's a really fucked up kinda loop, cuz alot of people were shown GW stuff back when they were kids, so it's got nostalgia factor for them, and that was when GW was basically one of the only really popular companies making good minis. Then you go on and those people grow up and show other people their stuff and talk about the game with friends and make videos and blogs on it, and even though there are other companies making things just as nice, or a bit worse but way cheaper than GW, they don't get any attention since they weren't around to stick into your brain when you were growing up. They weren't there when you would talk to your friends all night about the books and world of warhammer or 40k. So those other companies basically gotta do what they can to survive or just fade away and GW gets away with raising the prices over and over again. And even when you do go looking for other things, or want to see models from other companies built up and painted like you can for almost any GW miniature, you can't find it, and all you get is just more GW videos to draw you back in or push you away. And you can never forget that people literally conflate the miniature wargaming hobby with just warhammer. And add that in with how people want to have the "brand name" cool thing to where they won't want to try out alternatives and risk getting called out in the shops or their lil community and it just makes it worse. GW was around and making the right moves to almost always have been around in peoples minds and just caught lightning in a bottle. And they know they can charge whatever they want and will continue to do so. TLDR: This sucks cuz so much stuff comes down to nostalgia and word of mouth from when you were a kid, or someone in your friend group or family bringing it up. It's a unending cycle that takes alot more effort to break out of, or GW to fuck up insanely badly to break.

[@The_belligerant_servo_skull]

@@Karazu1kun you summed the nostalgia up perfectly, I built GW minis with my dad as a kid and he's since died so returning to the hobby feels like I'm close to him again in a way.. A competitor can't really compete with that. But even with that emotional connection to the brand I'm capable of saying no, this is daylight robbery, enough!

[@Akillesursinne]

Why do you take toy soldiers so seriously? I spend like.. 300$ a year on miniatures, and I preferenser whfb to AOS. So why should I get my panties in a twist? It's luxury items!

[@mrmaat]

@@Akillesursinne Congratulations for being wealthy and willing to pay through the nose for toy soldiers.

[@Keram-io8hv]

Got one AoS (Stormcast who are not optimized for set buf more randomly collected minis) and that is enough, but maybe in future will get some Tomb Guard for fun

[@kenupton4084]

I collected Tomb Kings and Orcs and Goblins way back in the day... When metal Grey Knight terminators were new. I dont have mich loce for the game itself but i loved the models and setting. I cant imagine paying modern prices for ancient sets. Dont get me wrong, some models retain value... Sort of. It took me almost 13 years to replace a Red Gobbo from Gorkamorka. I remember when 3rd edition came out I was able to talk a few people into starting the bobby with the phrase "A hundred bucks will get tou enough to play, but you'll need glue abd paint". $25 for 10 Marines with extra parts for sergeant, flamer and missile launcher. $25 for a Rhino. $8 for 2 special weapon marines. $12 for a special character maybe? I also being a naive kid and beliving the plastic Dreadnought would be cheaper than the metal ones. My heart sank at the price of a Landraider.

[@OniSushi]

Okay. So here is my tinfoil hat theory. GW IS SELLING BACKLOG, they don't plan on investing into them much. They will seel what they have, then it will fade into obscurity like so many other games they have released. The pricing is high because they have limited stock. They won't sell the fun armies like skaven, lizardmen, and chaos dwarves because they dont have enough back stock to merit reselling them. This game dies in 1 year. Bet.

[@HeyVendy]

I'm keeping an eye on Old World. I'm not going to look at investing until they have an Ork or Chaos offering. The closest I'll allow myself to be interested is wanting to buy a Necrosphinx and the king on bone dragon, but that's because I think they'd just be fun to paint. Seeing you paint the Tomb Kings would be fun!

[@xavrikxify]

Honestly...for the insane amount of miniatures you are getting, with templates and rulebook, this is a great buy compared to other GW boxed sets.

[@klauskeller6380]

Why would you compare it to other overprized stuff?

[@xavrikxify]

@@klauskeller6380 I am comparing to the old Tomb Kings Battalion, which sold for $120.00 a decade ago and had far fewer miniatures than this box.

[@xavrikxify]

Also, saying the Necrosphinx is "Acceptable" is just showing EonsofBattle's bias towards this release. A large, gorgeous model from Age of Sigmar these days is anywhere between 130-150. The Necrosphix is about half that and you get a hero with it as well.

[@Omegaterrain]

I was going to pre-order a TK starter box. I waited online for my chance, saw the price, and couldn’t go through with it. Especially since Adepticon registration opened the next day! I did pre order that $15 model because I can’t remember the last time I paid so little for a new model 😅

[@capsaicinJT]

100% agree, the prices are getting out of control. i'm building my first proper full 40k army (ynnari) after years of general interest, and the cost really stings. and the faction i'm building is relatively elite, so it's still cheaper than more hordey armies. i understand there are considerations like inflation, cost of living increases, supply chain stuff, etc. but the prices still feel pretty high for unassembled plastic miniatures. i think some of these companies have an unfortunate mentality that the way to make more money is to squeeze as much as possible out of whales, rather than make it accessible and appealing to more people. similar problems happening with magic the gathering, D&D, video games, etc. i've seen a lot of speculation that the new 10th ed combat patrol boxes will be worse value than the older ones, which is really a shame. those are a great way for new players to get an army started without totally breaking the bank.

[@oskar6661]

Oh don't worry, GW isn't increasing prices because of inflation, cost of living, supply chain, etc. That stuff is borderline trivial. A box of GW plastic can be produced for less than $9...and they charge $60. They have HEAPS of profit, even when selling to retailers who get a healthy discount (obviously). GW never "needs" to increase prices. They just do so their profit margins continue to go up, keeping investors happy. Investors want growth, not stagnation. GW will pretend they're increasing prices because of world-wide issues...but they don't "need" those increases to make a profit -- just more profit. There is a reason that companies like Osprey/Northstar, Victrix, etc. can sell you 2-3x the weight of plastic for about half the cost of GW prices...and they're producing stuff in the UK as well. Those companies are also much smaller than GW, and they can afford to give you significantly more for less. GW just charges whatever they can trick people into paying.

[@AlbionOne1]

Love that you have Mars Attacks on the shelf back there

[@alvaroaugustomeridio]

With every release gw is making the choice of a 3d printer easier... For 700$ you can print something like 3 armies or more. If your friends ask you for armies too that pays for the initial investment over

[@phillipbritton3836]

Seeing those old world mummies was probably the breaking point into starting necrons

[@coureurdesbois6754]

Lots of third party models that look great. Fireforge makes a great line of crusaders. There are lots of generic skeletons to.

[@zaynevanday142]

I made a Tomb Kings construct out of the Necrosphinx and a Trygon/Mawloc and it’s awesome 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@itsallgoingtobeok5231]

Get involved! Love to see you paint some fantasy ❤

[@robinsvensson3123]

I'll watch some more Old world vidoes for sure!

[@Mosaic117]

The problem with the new old world minis is that tons of digital creators already fill the market for the og warhammer minis

[@darrinmcelroy9941]

Back in MY day, the big ass starter boxes were $60 US.

[@relink555]

One Page Rules has a fantastic set of alternative tomb kings in their 3d print range

[@OttoBillstrom]

They've certainly brought back WHFB pricing. I was a dark elf player back in the day, and elite units came in blisterpacks of 2(!) costing 80-100 SEK or about $10 roughly if I'm not mistaken (blackguards, executioners etc, Cold One Knights came in a box at some point during 6th). My pre-teen wallet did not allow for that kind of spend, so line infantry it was. Characters, such as Malekith, were also quite pricey (around 300+ SEK, so Round £25 or $40ish remembering old time conversion rates).