Oldest Humans of Dune and Human Lifespan Explained

The Universe of Dune is set in the distant future which had a past that is somewhat similar but not really the same as ours. The first three novels which are “Dune”, “Dune Messiah” & “Children of Dune” are spread over the course of a generation beginning at 10,191 AG which means After Guild’s formation or if we convert it into our way of looking at years, it’ll be roughly in the timeframe of 22,200 AD
So, as we have explored in a previous video, there are no alien species in the dune universe, at least there are no sentient alien beings and entities, no extraterrestrial civilizations that have been encountered in the vast expanse of the interstellar Imperium. So, what do we get instead, in the span of thousands of years, we get different subspecies of humans, hybrids, clones, mutated specimens and even super beings, ones that can bend space and time to access genetic memories of the ancestors and even look into the future to the events pertaining to their descendants.
In the book, God Emperor of Dune, in Chapter 1 Leto II mentions that without Melange people in that timeline would live and die according to the ancient measure. No more than 100 years or so. which means that even though thousands of years have passed, our baseline human genetics are still relatively unchanged and the years of life are still similar but might I add, that it is slightly more in this fictional age. People in developed countries have a lifespan ranging from 70-80 years and therefore Leto mentioning that they carry on till 100 shows a 20 year increase in longevity.
However, for the majority of people, lifespans are similar to those of the 20th century. Take for example: Shaddam IV was the 81st Padishah Emperor, and the head of House Corrino that had ruled the Imperium for about 10,000. So, divide the 10K years with the number of emperors, this gives every emperor a term of about 123 years, and if we account for regents and vacant years without an active emperor then maybe we get an average lifespan for an emperor in the range of 140-150 years.
However in Heretics of Dune, as I have noted just now, here it suggests that a person with extensive access to Melange and having good genetics as well as good health care and rejuvenation tech could live in to their 300s.

[@raydavison4288]

At one point in the novels, Herbert says that the Spice enables people to live to be around 400 years old, barring murder or accidental death, but then he doesn't do much with that. Most people, with the exceptions of Leto II and the Guild steersmen, don't live much longer than long-lived people of our time.

[@matthewdietzen6708]

Moneo, Leto II's had lived several centuries. Shaddam IV was youthful for his age.

[@nerd26373]

Dune sure has amazing species of creatures. They're always worth looking into in depth.

[@maximusspartan7409]

Did u see pt2? I'm waiting for it to hit streaming. No spoilers plz, how was it?

[@michaprymus3281]

​@@maximusspartan7409some changes from the books but pretty much Nice experience and Worth watching

[@SvenSkottke]

@@maximusspartan7409 I saw it, was good but worth watching in a cinema, for sure it's a movie that requires subtitles at home.

[@bradsquirrel7923]

Actually, the oldest human in the Dune universe is Norma Cenva. As far as I recall, she is still a conscious entity at the end of the series of books and long existed before and after Leto II. She is easily the longest existing human consciousness.

[@MrEnjoivolcom1]

I keep seeing this name. I’ll have to look into her. She couldn’t have been 100% human, was she?

[@bradsquirrel7923]

@@MrEnjoivolcom1 She was human. She became the first guild navigator. You can google her. She was originally a scientist.

[@bernbsy]

A lot of people prefer the Dune Encyclopedia's history because it was accepted and endorsed by Frank Herbert himself and not Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson's poorly written cash grab books which also lamely try to continue the series after Chapterhouse Dune.

[@dalegaliniak607]

A couple of things, the first is that the Bene Gesserits had been playing around with human genetics for many generations by the start of the series. I think it's incredibly likely that part of the changes would be to increase life expectancy, especially in the ruling class, though that was probably still in the low-to-mid 100s without spice. For Jessica, "feeling old and withered in her body" in her 50s was probably more to do with the years of stress rather than age, nobody thought it weird when she got pregnant with Alia of the Knife. Harkonnen was not a healthy man, he probably aged prematurely.

[@uptoncriddington6939]

Harkonnen was purposely infected by a Bene Gesserit with a debilitating disease which ruined his metabolism, made him fat and hideous and generally played havoc with any attempt to use him as a measure of normal aristocratic lifespan in the Empire. Jessica had all the Bene Gesserit training to allow her to regulate her aging process and, had she chosen to break their rules in this as she did in other ways, have lived on indefinitely. She probably chose to end her life earlier for unexplained reasons, perhaps because of chagrin over what would happen to her daughter Alia.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

I thought that the navigators lived around the same lifespan as Leto II. In their upper stages they were said to be thousands of years old, maybe even older than Leto actually. 4th stage is said to be the eldest among them at 3 or 4 thousand years. I wouldn't be surprised if Leto had the ability to fold space himself since he underwent a similar process and was the most gifted prescient ever. He probably had guild abilities and then some.

[@jennabronson4704]

That’s from the fanfic novels, though

[@codename495]

Navigators didn’t fold space,they navigated a safe path, using their mutated awareness to see the safe path. The holtzman engines did the space folding.

[@Concreteowl]

Navigators don't fold space with their bodies. They use machines. They use the spive to see obstacles by peaking into the future.

[@nickwilliams8302]

Just because the members of a royal family live longer is no reason to assume their reigns will be longer. The length of a monarch's reign is a function of the generation, not the lifespan. If people are living to 400, they probably aren't waiting until they're 350 to start having kids. An Emperor who lives to be 150 may only have ascended the throne when he was 125. Also, you're forgetting that the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers are theoretically immortal. Anyone who has survived the Water of Life can completely regenerate every cell in their body. They are forbidden from being actually immortal though.

[@richarddeese1087]

After Leto II's death, the Scattering and Famine Times would've led to a severe shortage of spice for all but the richest. No doubt lifespans would be greatly shortened. tavi.

[@bernbsy]

By Heretics of Dune, I believe the Bene Tleilaxu can produce melange with their axlotl tanks and Ix can produce No Ships that don't require a Guild Navigator. The Honored Matres have also produced a melange substitute.

[@richarddeese1087]

@bernbsy Yes, but the last 2 books take place over 1500 years after Leto's death & the Scattering. By then, they've had time to do those things. But remember, spice was an elitist commodity. Even Teg noted you could carry the price of a planet in a brief case of spice. Who knows how much the Tlelaxu would charge, but it wouldn't be cheap. And the Matres' adrenaline based substitute doesn't prolong life or allow for prescience. tavi.

[@bernbsy]

@@richarddeese1087 You're right about the Honored Matres own version of melange but while it didn't give prescience, I think it did boost mental abilities and prolong life. The Spider Queen was very old but very fit. If you think about it, melange was also very scarce during Leto II's reign of 3,500 years. He controlled it completely and only gave it to specific groups like the Bene Tleilax and Bene Gessert but denied it or greatly reduced it for the great houses and regular people. It was already very scarce before the scattering and famine times. At the same time he allowed the Tleliaxu to experiment and create artificial melange even though he could've easily stopped them because he didn't want one group to have a monopoly. He wanted it to be readily available for all. The Bene Gesserit gained access to the Tleliaxu's axlotl tanks which meant they could also produce artificial melange. And they also controlled the worms and could reproduce them. I believe the Golden Path included ready access to melange for all but without requiring it for space travel. In much the same way he allowed Ix to continue with technology even if it violated the Butlerian Jihad because he wanted humans to be be able to travel freely without relying on melange. Not arguing. Just emphasizing it's eventual accessibility and that t was also scarce before the scattering and famine times.

[@jazzk4072]

I remember reading that Ghanima lived over 400 and that the BGs can prolong their lives through their training - which they try not to use because they would be captured and tortured for their knowledge.

[@uknowbass]

Excluding a body, Erasmus’s consciousness was protected for a long time and died 15,372 years (sort of bc he died twice)

[@squamish4244]

Imagine if they raise average human life expectancy to 100 in this century. Even 20 more expected _healthy_ years would drastically change the shape of society. People would have more time for everything.

[@emilywilhite5807]

Sadly they’d likely just raise the retirement age so we’d get 20 more years just working to pay the bills.

[@squamish4244]

@@emilywilhite5807It depends on where AI is going. It is probably going to take a lot of jobs. How that will all come out in the wash, I don't know. But hell, 20 more years is still 20 more years for everything. Right now, everyone runs around like crazy trying to get educated, find a mate, get married, settle down and have kids in a 20-year span. And if you miss that window, especially as a woman, too bad, so sad. Imagine if instead we got 40 years to do all that, because biologically 40 would be more like chronologically 60. HUGE difference.

[@patinho5589]

More time for Instagram

[@desmodesrampi9727]

They talk about the oracle "Norma Cenva" in the original books... they don't say how old she is but since she had always been around she is at least 10000 years old!!!

[@MrEnjoivolcom1]

She couldn’t have been 100% human then, spice or not.

[@desmodesrampi9727]

@@MrEnjoivolcom1 how was Leto 100% human then? Video says he was 3500 years old

[@bernbsy]

A lot of people prefer the Dune Encyclopedia's history because it was accepted and endorsed by Frank Herbert himself and not Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson's poorly written cash grab books which also lamely try to continue the series after Chapterhouse Dune.

[@desmodesrampi9727]

@@bernbsy yes I got the name of the oracle from later books based on notes of Frank Herbert but what I said about oracle being the oldest human to live is based strictly on original books of Frank Herberts Saga. If Leto is identified as a human in the Video, then the oracle should be qualified as one also I think. Not much is said but The oracle is the first navigator that is what Frank Herbert pretty much says

[@bernbsy]

@@desmodesrampi9727 In the six books that Frank Herbert wrote, this all he said about Norma Cenva coming from Leto II. 'Who has ever heard of Norma Cenva? ... You think a man designed the first Guild ship? Your history books told you it was Aurelius Venport? They lied. It was his mistress, Norma. She gave him the design, along with five children. He thought his ego would take no less. In the end, the knowledge that he had not really fulfilled his own image, that was what destroyed him.' That's it. A small paragraph. Nowhere does he say anything about her being a Guild Navigator, the Oracle, or her age, etc. Just that she designed the first ship.

[@jamesnoe7378]

Miles Teg is a fking BAD ass. 🎉🎉🎉

[@stanleylayzell2506]

Absolutely! Heretics of Dune is under-rated

[@harryc1971]

Wonder if the Fremem lived longer due to exposure to spice?

[@nco1970]

The day, the year. They represent something for Earth. But are they still units used when mankind is far from Earth?

[@winstonpoplin]

All solar systems and planets will have their own day and year lengths depending on their orbits. But in an interstellar empire they would likely choose a standard year and day just so the systems can stay aligned with each other. But as soon as you get into deeper space the idea of a "day" kinda disappears because you are no longer on a rotating orb that will block out the local star at night. Endless sunlight is what you experience at a reasonably far distance from any planets.

[@joyid]

Why your voice tone changed midway?

[@codename495]

Puberty.

[@mindq4328]

Yeah puberty and slowly becoming the Lisan al gaib

[@solomondesormeaux]

@@mindq4328 Lisan AL Gaib ! As it was written.

[@rhondawentzell6959]

Isn’t it tragic that human still couldn’t get past feudalism. Sad addiction too.

[@MrEnjoivolcom1]

From what I see, Norma Cenva became the first Space Navigator of the Spacing Guild. So she was far from just “human” lol.

[@MarxZeff]

Damn leto hit that asaurus ass

[@JeffDrennen]

Its funny how the Emperor Shaddam Corrino the 4th age was barely mentioned in this video. I Remember reading he was 68 but looks like he's in he's mid 30s, as if the spice melange kept some people youthful rather prolonged their life.

[@thecompanioncube4211]

Also, I know this is not actually practiced in books, but Bene gesserit have the ability to basically halt the aging of cells, but they don't do it cause the want to keep their abilities secret

[@uptoncriddington6939]

Since Earth years are our measure, but the Imperium covers planets with different year lengths, how is the measure of X number of “years” going to be comparable across planets.

[@brandonmcgee1678]

yes because massive worms the size of towers isnt "alien" or anything

[@negirose4625]

Idk.... I still say Duncan Idaho is the oldest 🤣

[@simonfarre4907]

The whole franchise has plot holes to the Nth degree, more so than any other franchise out there. I'm guessing this is part of why Tolkien found the book disagreeable. It's plot armors, plot holes, fore shadowing that is almost embarrassing some times, so on. It is not exactly amazing writing.

[@beowulfvladmax7710]

Villeneuve has not portrayed Herbert's novel correctly. In order to sell tickets he carefully crafted Paul into more of a hero than antihero. Eliminated the pregnancy of chani. Carefully skirted use of the term JIHAD. Woke. All to sell tickets. I'm quite disappointed in Denis Villeneuve. DUNE has still not been interpreted correctly.

[@TurboGauchiste]

Shut up

[@Zelda_Thorn]

honestly amazing that you watched dune 2 and think villeneuve portrays paul as a hero

[@squamish4244]

No, Paul is quite clearly NOT portrayed as a hero. At best he is an anti-hero. And Chani getting pregnant - so what. He has to cut things. And yes, he cut out the word jihad. We have had 60 years of tragic crap go down in the Middle East since Herbert wrote his book. The word was not politicized at all back then, as Islamic extremism wasn't a thing yet. Should Villeneuve have also included the Baron's homosexuality, which is portrayed as inherently deviant in the book? Because that would be accurate too. And to be clear, Herbert was a homophobe who disowned his gay son, and in 1965, homosexuality was still regarded with suspicion and fear by many people. You can't skirt this by saying the Baron was a pedophile - yes he was, but the key thing for Herbert is that he was a _homosexual_ pedophile.

[@indoorplant2392]

L take, Paul was not a hero at the end, but the leader

[@evildeebee]

Uh. Really? Sheesh.