On The Workbench - Episode 8 - Lionel GW-180 Transformer - Is it Worth It?

Overview of the Lionel GW-180 Transformer Pack.
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[@williamkolina3988]

You are never boring Never stop being a nerd.I told you that before.your channel is vital and informative.there isn't enough technical stuff out there.this video is like a classroom.I think your work is great.every video can't be your fantastic collection running.even though that's great too

[@thomasbilheimer]

I bought one of these a while ago but have not used it yet as my layout is not quite ready for train running. Other things grab my time! Anyway, your video was very helpful and basically reaffirmed my thinking in choosing this power source for my small 5 x 8 running two trains (all modern). Your description was very clear and complete. As a retired teacher I appreciate the precision. Having up-sized from On30 and a whole different electronic (DCC) scheme, I'm just re-educating myself in Lionel which were my trains as a kid. So again, your explanations here and in ALL your videos are quite helpful. Perhaps one day we may run into one another as I'm a Lehigh Valley resident. Anyway, thanks Sean!

[@jamesmelchin2873]

Very informative...thanks Sean ! ✌

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

A fine review Sean, well done! Nothing I can add except for a personal note. I've got several MPC engines with "Mighty Sound of Steam." In my case it was more like the "Mighty Sound of SCREAM!" Yow! I deactivated the feature and replaced the "MSoS" units with upgraded sound units or run the trains with a whistle sound car. And that's the "war story" for today! Thanks for posting!

[@Rich-en8rn]

Thank you for explaing this 180 Transformer. I bought one and really have not used it yet. Inspired now!

[@ajmayowskijr]

Excellent overview Sean. I bought one in March to compliment my MTH Z 4000.

[@TomzTrainzandAccessories]

Great review Sean. I totally agree with you. Watts are good, but Amps are King!! Amperage is the power of electricity.

[@johnandrus3901]

It would be nice if they used the same control unit for all of the bricks. I bought a gentleman's layout and collection a number of years ago and it included the CW-80. I'm setting it up to use on my refinery section. It would be nice if I could use a bigger brick so I could power the whole inner yard. I have plenty of transformers, but these would eliminate some of the space used by the older units in certain areas. Either way, a fine and informative presentation.

[@railchief74]

Great review Sean! I might have to switch to a GW-80 Now after watching your video here. My CW-80 had a problem with the cooling fan inside. Once the fan stopped, the red power nobb on the back of the transformer melted and now it’s loose. When I bought a New CW-80 I kinda stuck with running accessories with it

[@seanstraindepot]

Yeah, that was the issue in some generations of the CW-80. The new revised version they sell today is supposed to have that corrected.

[@therosejewelrailroad489]

I had a few cw80s on my layout. I like the design. They have a classic look. I did have a few problems with them. Lionel replaced one for me no charge. I needed to upgrade. The cw80 fell just short of my needs. I considered the gw180. But I didn’t like the idea of a separate brick. I wanted modern circuit protection so I considered the ZW-L. But as you said the price scared me away. I settled for the mth z4000. I really like it. It’s very simple and I love the lighted voltage on each track circuit. I liked the video. Please show us where you put the gw-180 after you give it a job and a home.

[@wayneantoniazzi2706]

My layout's not big enough for an MTH Z-4000 but I do use three Z-1000's. All my trains, pre-war, post war, and modern love 'em and work perfectly with them.

[@seanstraindepot]

Yeah, for what I needed this for the Z4000 didn't fit the bill. But I have a Z4000 too and agree they are nice transformers.

[@smuk386]

You are very correct about the CW-80. I bought a used one which lasted few hours. Then i bought a new one from e-bay which was defective, it was stuck at 15 volts. Now I am wondering which transformer I should replace with. Thank you for your very informative review.

[@seanstraindepot]

Just depends how much power you need. The MTH Z4000 is a great mid-level transformer for around 600.00 but the Lionel ZW-L is the best out there right now, but of course close to 1000.00. If you just need power for 1 or 2 trains the GW is a great option as the Bricks are rock solid.

[@johnhartz21779]

I set the accessories side for powering lionchief engines & run a traditional on the track out side.

[@seanstraindepot]

Great idea.

[@dennis2494]

How do you keep your workbench so neat and clean? Thank you for explaining the protection circuit in the GW180, I was concerned that it wouldn't be adequate to protect the modern Lionel engines, but it seems to offer enough protection.

[@seanstraindepot]

Must be my OCD, lol.

[@choochoopoppy3240]

Wow, the timing is uncanny. I just bought one yesterday at Nicholas Smith (day after video posted) and now see the video this morning. The amps are EXACTLY why I went with the GW-180. I quickly maxed out the accessory post on my Z-4000 and as you pointed out, the CW-80 was insufficient as an alternative to power my accessories.

[@seanstraindepot]

HAHA, yes, it's all about Amps! I think it is a great middle of the road option without breaking the bank.

[@choochoopoppy3240]

@@seanstraindepot indeed!

[@PhilBender612]

I recently expanded the lay out and needed more power. So, I just picked up a ZW C model. This comes with 2 180w bricks and having 4 channels, is capable of the 720w the ZW L has just by adding 2 more 180s. I bought mine for $350.00 and that seems to be the going price if not a bit higher. I heard you mention the ZW L for 1000, but wouldn't this be a better choice for the same money for you?

[@cathrynm]

We have this passenger car set, and that sucks down two amps for the bulbs just idling. We have a CW-80 and it just fails, the engine doesn't even recognize TMCC signals properly. An MTH Z750 is fine, but anything else on the tracks causes it to throw its breaker.

[@seanstraindepot]

The Z750 is 75 watts, the CW80 is 80 watts and the GW180 is 180 watts/10 amps. So, sounds like your CW80 had an issue or something, because the Z750 is actually less powerful.

[@cathrynm]

@@seanstraindepot The CW80 is fine with smaller trains with fewer passenger cars. Maybe it's just a bit more delicate. Why I'm looking at GW-180. I'm right on the edge with both of these.

[@RVJunke1]

@Sean - Thank you for this. I am new to trains, and bought the Powerhouse 180 but did direct connect to Fast Track via TMCC. Great constant 18v, but cannot get the Decoupler Tracks to work they short the track right out. The Operating tracks seem to work but again the higher voltage seems still high and they trip but I can get 1-2 activations. Would you recommend the GW80 and drop the voltage down to a lower voltage or is the 18v better for the trains? Thanks in advance.

[@erniebratton]

I’m needing the wire that goes from the transformer to the track ?

[@lfbejaranoc]

Hello, last Christmas I managed to buy a polar lionel. This train works only with the basic power supply that comes with the set. With everything being assembled and connected, the train suddenly started on its own without me giving the order through the remote control. When the front light stopped flashing, after what happened the train did not respond again. I tried to start it with the remote control and it did not respond as if it were shorted. How can I solve the problem? it has a solution? or finally the train is no longer fixed? thank you.. Will this transformer take care of my second train? Or does it just serve to give it more power? Thank you again

[@Marklin15]

Is this the same transformer that came in the nicer Lionel sets in the early 2000's? I have some of those sets with the same transformer with separate power brick and packed in foam box like in video.

[@williamkolina3988]

Sean is it safe for modern electronics,with out adding quick fuze breakers

[@seanstraindepot]

Yes, that's why it has the Fold Back protection first, then the breaker. You can add any additional protection on output, but it's not necessary. Basically, same way the ZW-L's protection works. But if it makes you feel better by all means add more.

[@lfbejaranoc]

By having this transformer working, will the train remote control stop working?

[@evanhizon8112]

I run some Standard Gauge locomotives such as the 400E in the Lionel Classics/MTH Tinplate Traditions line. They are all traditional with the Bild-A-Loco motors and the Air-whistles. I use a Lionel CW-80, the one that comes with those O-Gauge starter sets from the mid-2000s. While they do power the engine by itself (No tender, no rolling stock) it needs a lot of power to get it going. It doesn't move/crawl until I raise the throttle up to 70. I don't know if my CW-80 is underpowered or something but it is almost like I am giving it all and yet it doesn't feel like it's getting the voltage it needs as it struggles to move when it has the cars attached. Will the GW-180 work for Standard Gauge trains or do I need something powerful?

[@seanstraindepot]

The CW-80 is only 80 watts and only 5 amps max of current (although that should be plenty for a single engine), whereas the GW-180 goes up to 10 amps. The CW-80 was also known to have output issues. Most very good transformers are not cheap. You would probably be very happy with MTH's Z-4000 transformer, but it is not cheap (about 625.00) www.nicholassmithtrains.com/Z-4000-TRANSFORMER-MTH404000-10953/ unless you find a good used one. Also, any good postwar transformer is perfect for traditional engines, like the postwar ZW. Depends how much you want to spend. a refurbished postwar ZW would work perfect in your case. They cost around 125.00 or so. Worth every penny. Contact me if you want the contact information for a guy who is at the York Train meet every year and sells refurbished ZW's with a 2-year warranty. I have purchased 2 transformers from him myself.

[@evanhizon8112]

I am in no way an expert when it comes to conventional 3-rail AC/ Standard Gauge as my primary is HO and 2-rail DCC. But I do notice my CW-80 tends to do a rapid single blink when I activate the whistle and the train slows down. Not to mention if I run a 400E (Traditional) with the tender and the passenger-lighted cars or freight cars, ends up using a lot of power. These are the semi-old 1989 and 1998 runs of the 400E's. It is very hard to do crawl speed on these things. The transformer goes from starting the engine at throttle 70 to nearly 90. Also, I am wondering if it's because my CW80 is not made for Standard but rather O-Gauge. It's already annoying that I have to raise the throttle more than halfway to get the engine moving and raise the throttle to 90 just to get a train moving at a slow speed.. Also if I run the train too long, it would just shut down. I assume it might have overloaded. @@seanstraindepot

[@seanstraindepot]

So first off, when you blow the whistle on conventional, it sends a DC offset to the track. It is normal for the engine to change speed, that's how it works. Second, transformers are not specific to any gauge. It's all about Amps. Standard Gauge motors don't really use any more amps than an O Gauge motor. Maybe 1 or 2. Only way to tell how many amps it is drawing is to put an ammeter around the power wire going to your track. If it is one engine doing it, could be a problem with the AC motor or engine. Third, the incandescent lights in passenger cars draw a lot of amps. So that takes away from the overall amps available to use for the motor. Sounds like it is overloaded, and you just need a beefier transformer. If all you are going to run is conventional, I would get a postwar ZW. If you have the money the MTH Z4000 is a fantastic transformer.

[@anthonycales9118]

I'm building an o gauge layout and looking for some info regarding constant 14V power for Lionel switches. Will the GW-180 supply a constant 14V from the accessory side to power 4 switches and continue to have enough juice to run two engines? I'm looking to purchase a transformer on a budget. Thanks for the info.

[@seanstraindepot]

Which Lionel switches are you using? Fastrack or postwar ?

[@Wiencourager]

You can get a vintage ZW for 150 or less, easy to maintain if they ever need work. The Kw and z and other older larger Lionel transformers are less money and great for powering lots of accessories. I use some of the old 100 watt Marx transformers for accessories. They go for almost nothing at train shows. The modern Lionel transformers are not very reliable, not a good value, and best avoided unless you need more modern features for the newer trains. American Flyer made some nice transformers too.

[@anthonycales9118]

@@Wiencourager I ended up with a couple CW 80's to split the accessories between the two for now. I'll upgrade at some point.

[@adamsspinasbeck8576]

When using the GW 180 will I be able to get the start up progression and dialog capabilities from my locomotive or do I need a different controller for that like a cab 1?

[@seanstraindepot]

This is just power for the track. Doesn't have anything to do with Command control functions.

[@adamsspinasbeck8576]

@@seanstraindepot OK thanks . Just to clarify I would just be ablet to do speed, direction, whistle, and bell but no dialogue correct. Sorry I am new to this hobby.

[@seanstraindepot]

@@adamsspinasbeck8576 Is it a Lionel or MTH engine? TMCC, Legacy or PS2 or PS3? In general, you need a command control system, but some things can be controlled conventionally depending which manufacturer and control system.

[@adamsspinasbeck8576]

@@seanstraindepot It's a Lionel C&O 2-10-4 Texas with TMCC I believe.

[@gusshadleythelunaticfromar7125]

When you go above a dollar a watt, I don't like shelling out the cash. But come a time I will have to hold my nose and cut the check

[@seanstraindepot]

HAHA, I needed a transformer fast and had no time to find a used postwar that was working/safe /refurbished, so this fit the bill.

[@robertcornelius3514]

Can I use that brick with my CW-80?

[@robertcornelius3514]

After looking around on the web, my CW-80 does not have the female plug connection on the side of the transformer's case, so I don't think it is possible to use the brick.

[@genemanno1533]

Priced at $275 to $425 plus shipping, & tax on ebay seems a bit pricey. Why not a KW or ZW found available for $100 to $250 in good running condition often rebuilt? This GW180 looks like it’s electronic and expect problems. The “brick” appears a bandage for more power. Post war KW & ZW transformers hard to beat functionally, cost, ease of use, wiring voltage options, parts availability, and reliability. I don’t feel the same can be said for GW180. But thank you for the review.

[@seanstraindepot]

It was only 259.00 on sale, free ship. So not bad for 10 amps of power and double circuit protection. I needed something small and compact for where I was going to put it. It's a capable transformer. Refurbished PW transformers are great, I have those too.