One year later, I still don't like The Last of Us Part II

[@Vanessa-xx3yz]

The Breaking Bad comparison is pretty rich. Walter didn't go from being very good to very bad. He always had an ego and was repressing alot of resentment toward certain people in his life for having success and being able to be who they want to be. It's why he wanted to combine his crime life with his home life in the first place and couldn't just take the money and run once he didn't need to make meth anymore. Heisenberg was always hiding inside Walter White.

[@elmatapacos7441]

in my opinion there was no heisenberg,he was walter white the whole time,but he didn't want to accept that

[@yusukeelric]

There was never a heisenberg, its always Been Walter on an ego trip blaming others on his own lack of incentive in life wich led him to become just a teacher despite his knowledge being on par with engineers.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

@@yusukeelric yeah this made me almost cry idk why but there's so many people who take walter's side (the unintelligent fans not the regular and most fans of breaking bad) that it's finally nice to see something put so succinctly summing up walt's character so well. Or maybe it was because he reminds me of myself. The ego not the intelligence. I'm no engineering major.

[@BambiLena666]

Tbh from everything I saw on Breaking Bad, was that the show kind of relies on you being on Walters side. I never got into it, cause episode 1, I was like this dude is an ahole, why am I supposed to give a shit about him becoming an ahole that does illegal shit now? Oh but his wife is a bitch to him, his son doesnt appreciate him and he has a shitty job. Yeah, hes an ahole with an ego the size of the moon, so what?

[@WVRLORD]

Literally… the people who used that as an argument literally ignored the whole point of the story they were citing lol

[@riku528]

The game's message is that violence isn't the answer yet the combat loop is just triple-A quality violence

[@riku528]

@@donavonhoward1899 no I definitely didn’t miss the point. The first game has a very clear message whereas this game also has a very clear message. The game tries to make us sympathize with Abby and therefore make us like the character so that we don’t become trigger happy when we see her even though they make the mistake of trying to humanize the antagonist to the protagonist who is Ellie. Ellie has every right and the game confuses the player for the actual character as Ellie spares her out of one flashback about Joel. Don’t make the point about Joel not wanting Ellie to do that because he’s not even a morally righteous person. I didn’t miss the whole point I see how incorrectly the writers tried to implement that point into a game with a setting where nobody is morally correct. The gameplay loop tries to make you feel bad about murdering hundreds of people through different areas with them screaming when they are in the same moral compass as everyone else. The gameplay loop directly contradicts the point because ending the cycle of violence does not mean you bash someone’s head in with a bat or kill a pregnant woman.

[@Noperare]

Undertale integrated the "violence is bad" into the gameplay greatly. For start, the game is turn-based pixel art, so there is no actual combat skill to stimulate your desire for violence; second, the game the characters are charming and you genuinely feel abad about killing them, instead of hoping you give a f*ck just because they have names; third, the complete the "genocide run" you need to kill every enemy, and finding them all is boring and grind AF

[@riku528]

@@Noperare And that is a completely great example of how to do it

[@triplemoyagames4195]

@@riku528 I don't get how the flashback would make Ellie want to stop from killing Abby, Knowing Joel, he would have fully sent it if anyone touched Tommy or Ellie, we didn't see any build-up of Joel wanting to be a pacifist. We know he wasn't even remorseful for the hospital massacre and infact doubled down

[@stillvillian]

@@riku528 If you think Abby is the antagonist alone, then you missed the point. The game isn’t about violence or forgiveness. It’s just about moving on. The gameplay shows horrible and brutal actions which didn’t have to happen. They live in a violent world, but Ellie didn’t have to leave Jackson and she could of avoided what was about to happen. The game is showing that what you are going to do isn’t going to be a triumphant story of justice. Ellie is the antagonist and so is Abby, but Ellie and Abby are both the protagonist. Abby is only the villain to Ellie’s story and Ellie is the villain to Abby’s story. In Ellie’s eyes, Abby came in and killed her father figure, the only person who would always care for her no matter what. But to Abby, she killed a monster who stopped humanity from getting a cure and then his psychopath daughter kills all her friends just to get back at her. The characters only ever change when they move. Ellie let’s Abby go because if she killed her she would only prove to herself how far gone she was. Abby didn’t get better killing Joel, it only got better when she found something to fight for like Joel did with Ellie.

[@karalynspeaks4267]

The part about Abby never trying to learn about Ellie’s side of the story but the player is forced to learn about Abby’s

[@krasmasov6852]

Abby already knows Ellie's story.

[@karalynspeaks4267]

@@krasmasov6852 maybe but she never had like a convo about it to fully understand

[@BWMagus]

@@krasmasov6852 Really? She knows all about her, her pain and suffering, her regrets, her hopes, her complicated relationship with Joel? Bullshit.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@BWMagus Of course not, but that's not what I said, doofus.

[@sleepchasers08]

@@krasmasov6852 so then… what is your point?

[@bobbywalker224]

The ending to this game was the equivalent to John Wick killing everyone but the guy who killed his dog

[@NotUp2Much]

This really is the sequel ever made

[@uchiha2324]

Yeah, if the dog killed the guys only parent

[@EzraBarry-mb2ss]

Bro can not understand that if Ellie killed Abby lev would come after Ellie 🤯🤯🤯

[@edwinkrasnokutsky3903]

@@EzraBarry-mb2ss i understand both sides (side one: the ones who r mad that ellie didnt kill, and side two: the ones who think the ending is good). I agree with both sides. Yes, I was mad when ellie left abby alive and leave while abby also BIT one of her fingers, but now that I think about the ending more and more, I understand the message and do like the meaning of it now. The whole Joel’s death sequence is still awful tho imo

[@sahilbrar9416]

They could have gone another way with story, like having Ellie and Abby stories go parallel, instead of playing 10 or so hours for each character. I personally felt no sympathy for Abby, as I couldn’t get behind her killing Joel, but I think the story is still great

[@wudpeckr4951]

It actually gives me chills when I think of what this game would be like if Joel had lost Ellie to Abby and we got to see him absolutely waste her.

[@solidsnake7167]

Typical commoner answer. Simple, predictable, in a box with a neat little bowtie. Same type of baboon brained person that goes to watch all the marvel movies with cookie cutter endings

[@BrandonGavin_EDC]

That would be amazing

[@snailart14]

I don't think I'd want to play that

[@wudpeckr4951]

@@snailart14 Why

[@imulan]

Oh without hesistation, immediately waste her.

[@nimloc1670]

It felt so condescending how this game tried to preach about forgiveness while not offering that same mercy to Joel, a character we know very well. Hell, they even punished Ellie at the end.

[@krasmasov6852]

What do you mean not offering that same mercy to Joel? His portrayal was incredibly sympathetic.

[@nimloc1670]

@@krasmasov6852 I mean in terms of the whole game's focus in general. The cliff hanger in the first game left it open to the audience to decide whether the lawyer thought Joel was right or wrong for what he did. But in the sequel, it makes that decision for the audience: that Joel was completely wrong for what he did. There were even multiple characters in the sequel repeatedly calling Joel a monster for what he did, no matter the reason. The most sympathy I saw when it came to Joel's decision was when it came to Ellie's diary and when she would think if she understood why Joel did what he did or not. The best display of sympathy for Joel is in the ending, when Ellie offers to try to forgive him. But throughout the entire game, it almost felt like it was telling us that we should feel bad for caring about Joel, but not for Abby and her Dad. I hope I make sense somewhat, I don't wanna type an article

[@krasmasov6852]

@@nimloc1670 No, it doesn't make that choice for the audience at all. In fact, the game shows Joel doubling down on what he did and getting rewarded for it. There were multiple characters in the sequel who called Joel a monster, yes. There were also multiple people who traveled hundreds of miles to avenge his death. There is nothing in the game whatsoever that even remotely implies that you should feel bad for caring about Joel. The story doesn't work unless you do care about Joel. I mean Abby's entire motivation in Seattle is trying to assuage her guilt for the atrocity she committed to Joel.

[@ricardolujan5571]

The game was a mess... It is sad that ppl defends paying money for a game that destroys its own characters when they tricked them with devious trailers

[@pimpoyopalomo2958]

@@ricardolujan5571I hope that season 2 of the last of us completely changes the absolute horrible story we got on part 2

[@theinsurance2450]

The the argument I hate the most is when they say Joel is soft because he play guitar. That like saying John Wick is soft for playing with a little doggy. Or Punisher is soft because he took in a dog and was sad because the bad guys threaten to hurt him. Or Wolverine soft because he care about a hurt bear in the woods. These defenders of these games are so dumb.

[@SnagTheRabbit]

"You shouldn't be so quick to kill the only immune person you know of, EVEN if it is for a vaccine." THANK YOU. My mother even brought this up but I haven't seen anyone else mention it. The decision to just cut Ellie's brains open and kill her without any second thought is so dumb on the Fireflies part. What if the vaccine doesn't work? Well, you just wasted your only test subject, so guess we can't try again. It makes them look so incompetent and only makes Joel's decision more justified.

[@InJeffWeTrustt]

I understand what you mean. However, In the beginning of the first game Joel made an agreement with the fireflies. I see how people think it’s wrong from an emotional standpoint, but from the fireflies view they were given an opportunity to end all the suffering & fighting.

[@KillerBsan_]

​@@InJeffWeTrustt Fuck em little bitches suffering. Killing an innocent child for the chance of a vaccine js the pussiest sht i ever heard. U like gambling no?

[@cnr-r8r]

@@InJeffWeTrustt what a joke of a comment, Joel wasn't even given his payment for the 'agreement' and they took his bag and weapons and were presumably going to take him outside to execute him. There was no ambiguity in the original game, Joel made the right choice, until the second game came out and suddenly its painted as if the fireflies were competent

[@jjminor]

I believe in the first game they made it known that the probability of successfully getting the vaccine was incredibly low. But they thought they were justified in killing her. They were ruthless.

[@kostaspassias3815]

@@cnr-r8r The retconing was insane. In part 1 the operating room was a dingy and dirty, even if they got something useful it'd probably get contaminated right away. In part 2 however, all of a sudden the operating room is pristine. There is no reason to feel bad for the Fireflies, they are the villains of the story.

[@thelgpain6529]

Character inconsistency is one of the biggest issues that current media has. Movies and games tend to take these fictional characters out of character to push the plot forward. Even if it's detrimental to the overall immersion of the viewer/player or to the story as a whole.

[@krasmasov6852]

There is no character inconsistency in TLOU2. At least not in the sense you mean. They do change over time of course.

[@SVD63Ninja]

@@krasmasov6852there is ALOT of inconsistancy dude.

[@damboulton]

Exactly what Spider-Man 2 just did! Great point here

[@AHappyBlackGuy]

Something else that’s funny is that Ellie - who has the more stealth orientated gameplay style - loses to Abby… *in a stealth fight* I mean if I get it Abby got trained by the Fireflies and the WLF but Ellie literally uses this exact strategy against David. Sure Ellie’s blinded by rage and would maybe get sloppy but that wouldn’t make her stupid and she’s been pretty efficient throughout the game until the Abby fight where they turn her into an idiot

[@私の名前を翻訳しないでください]

Thank you so much for mentioning the "Ellie is blinded by rage" excuse. I am so sick of hearing that dumbass explanation, as if Ellie is just going to forget a huge chunk of her survival experience just because she's pissed off, when she's literally taken out WAVES of fully grown men since she was 14.

[@robogreek3157]

Then beats her in a fist fight at the end. 😆

[@robogreek3157]

@@私の名前を翻訳しないでください made joel blind too apparently

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@robogreek3157 god this game is insulting to the fans

[@kakashihatake6176]

@@zzodysseuszz l didn't thought it was a Masterpiece but l didn't thought it was the worst thing ever,people just got super pissed because of joel death which wasn't even as illogical as many people made it out to be

[@chloemarlowe3817]

Honestly, my biggest problem with the game is that it is a revenge story but stops you from actually having your revenge right at the end and shoehorns in a "cycle of violence" message as if none of the random people you killed have family that want to avenge them. Nevermind the fact that you mowed through hundreds of enemies to get a shot at killing Abby and Ellie just gives up last second. They pulled every cheap trick in the book to make people sympathize with Abby and they still couldn't get people to like her.

[@crazycat690]

Should play both Red Dead Redemption games if you haven't already, they also tackle the "cycle of revenge" in part, just much more well done while not trying to center the entire plot around it.

[@65firered]

Assassin's Creed and God of War did that revenge plot better. Hell, Assassin's Creed nailed it multiple games in a row.

[@Demoncut_clips]

Yeah And God of War did it in a truly meaningful way but still kill the bad guy at the end.

[@65firered]

@@Demoncut_clips "The cycle ends here, we must be better than this." Hits harder than anything TLOU2 had, which is incredibly unfortunate.

[@ManiacMayhem7256]

sloppy writers lead to sloppy characters, simple as

[@Drakon_Minaka]

I still love how people used the argument of "you're upset Joel died" when the fandom, at least the majority from what I saw, accepted that he was going to die in TLoU2.

[@crazyinsane500]

There's a billion legitimate issues, many of which are obvious and indefensible. Acknowledging those would mean this game isn't perfect. "You're just mad because Joel died" is the one point they latch onto because they think the fans being upset was the intent and that makes it smart. Subsequently, they think that makes them smart. It was never about the game. It's about how the game makes them feel: If it's perfect, they're smart. If it's not it's just one of a billion things in life that keeps telling them they aren't.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@crazyinsane500 It always traces back to people being mad Joel died. You can't name a single legitimate issue.

[@CEnow]

@@krasmasov6852 Oh, we can name several issues. The problem is whenever we do, TLOU2 apologist never listen and always go back to moving the goal post or outright repeat their own points like parrots.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@CEnow No, you cant. Feel free to try though.

[@thorthewolf8801]

@@krasmasov6852 It makes no sense that Ellie doesnt kill Abby.

[@StillCisTho42]

I hate how Lev has one of the most interesting stories in this game but we never get to play as him. He is trying to save his brainwashed mother from a cult that wants to kill him for heresy, for god's sake thats fricking Shakespeare compared to the rest of the game.

[@hue.main1]

Abby isn’t entirely a bad character but I would’ve liked an alternative that Ellie ended up in her spot with Lev, and Ellie becomes the Joel for Lev. Get call backs to the first game, and Ellie sharing Joel’s tactics and wisdom to Lev. That would’ve been an amazing story.

[@ceecue5367]

​@@hue.main1 That's just going full Clementine and AJ

[@hue.main1]

@@ceecue5367 You’re so right, lol. Wouldn’t have realized that correlation. I guess I unknowingly really like that sort of trope

[@Player-jh4ko]

@@ceecue5367 And that's not necessarily a problem. It's better than the trasheap we got lmao.

[@TonyO_]

I always wanted to play as Lev. Interesting character. Hopefully they make a part 3

[@Endgame_01]

I laughed hard af when you said you would kill Abby's dad all over again. I actually replayed the first one just for that myself. Seriously, fuck that guy

[@Salieri01]

Just had to waste all my ammo on that damn doctor last week for all the crap that happened

[@ludnirg810]

You're saying fuck that guy for absolutely no reason. If you actually paid attention he was an innocent man who did nothing EXCEPT TRY TO MAKE A FUCKING VACCINE FOR THE WORLD. JOEL KILLED HIM FOR NO REASON. And Abby had a reasonable reaction. Her dad was killed by a man for doing nothing except helping the world.

[@Kevinrock98]

@@Salieri01 same here, all the ammo on that mf

[@ragerach3766]

I went through the whole hospital section stealthily just so I could unload all my remaining ammo into him, totally worth it

[@65firered]

Dude actively pursued his own death. After this guy takes down an entire force by himself and only wants to take the kid, what makes you think *you* would fair better against him? If he stayed in the first game I wouldn't have minded but the added the context of the sequel just makes him look even dumber.

[@markm5927]

This video is straight fire. Especially the part on Abby and her dad. Everybody knew that someone would want revenge on Joel, and somehow they still made those characters completely unlikeable. This game really should've just been Ellie's story.

[@liam6170]

I wish they did what they originally suggested on focusing on new characters to expand the world

[@markm5927]

@@liam6170 I'd prefer that to what we got. Honestly I just wish they'd left it at one. It ends perfectly.

[@Noperare]

"Stop trying to be movies so badly" thank you! It is a video GAME, not a VIDEO game. Imagine "improving" a movie by having a few static images and most of the story is told by just audio to mimic radio novelas.

[@billcipher3946]

The first game too then

[@Bopperann]

Exactly! I don't know why developers would limit themselves so greatly when video games offer so much more exploring (/time to build characters and the world.) I don't think a Batman movie could tell a story on the same epic scale like the Arkham Knight. Joker in Batman's head was so very fun. Trying to congest all of it into movie time would not yield the same results. In short, you can't make a cake by following a pie recipe.

[@nicolaschannel8787]

Why are you so mad? Can't he have a different opinion than you?

[@billcipher3946]

@@nicolaschannel8787 Are you replying to me?

[@nicolaschannel8787]

@@billcipher3946 no my friend i replied to 《m a》

[@outpesticide]

I find Druckmann's use of that Kurt Cobain quote to be really funny in hindsight. Kurt said that not because those kinds of people were critical of his music, but because he personally hated what they believed in and didn't want to be supported by awful people. Druckmann hates """"racists"""" and """"sexists"""" because they're easy scapegoats for why nobody likes his divisive sequel.

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

The thing that’s funny to me about his reaction to the backlash is the fact that he said before he knew people were gonna hate the game, but chose to stick with the story he wanted from the jump. Why get all extra about the reaction to the game then? It was just a lot of unnecessary drama around this game’s release.

[@yusukeelric]

The game turning into a trainwreck is almost entirely Neils fault, there is nothing wrong with the gameplay, or the acting, its all on the writing and the execution, And guess who directed this game execution and who was the lead writer. Your man mr Druckmann. And considering his defiant attitude, and the way the story is made in such a one sided note, id say the dude is too full of himself,

[@yusukeelric]

@@marcusmaire8197 Yeah, a lot of people like the new star wars trilogy, didnt stop it from selling less with each sequel. When we speak about millions, even 1% is a lot. And "a lot" stops meaning anything but a footnote at that point.

[@poorbabydan1162]

@@datiger39 I'm new to the drama. What are the major plotholes & inconsistencies people have discovered?

[@robogreek3157]

@@Nassit-Gnuoy BINGO. i said the same. He said he knew people would hate ... Yet makes fun of them and blocks meta reviews unless its Beta males

[@christianspell112]

Why does everyone have waaaaaaayyy better ideas then the writers and director?

[@krasmasov6852]

They don't. I've yet to hear a single better idea.

[@benkenobi3364]

@@SlimKim3 I don't see how this is a useful comment towards the discussion, no offense. Well, I wish you all the best.

[@SlimKim3]

@@benkenobi3364 it was actually a backwards comment thanks for pointing it out hun LOL

[@benkenobi3364]

@@SlimKim3 I don't remember what you wrote but anyway have a nice day.

[@Armillaria]

“Hey friends at naughty dog, what if we make The Last of Us 1.5!! Joel and Ellie specifically Joel were being hunted down but Abby and her friends but they were able to take them out!! ❤ after that they live a happy life in Jackson! The end!!!🌈🌈

[@lelandgrey8587]

I hate that the game tries to portray Abby's dad as some kind of saint. We assumed it was Marlene that wanted to kill Ellie in the first one but it was him all along. Abby's dad would have done the same thing Joel did were the situation reversed. How the hell is a cure going to help anyway? The world is already fucked. People are still going to kill other people. I feel bad for Laura Bailey too. She got death threats because of Neil Druckmann's shitty writing of her character.

[@billcipher3946]

No is a saint my dude in this game

[@dylancross1039]

The people going on and on about a cure are talking nothing but nonsense. Anybody with more than two braincells to rub together knows that a literal terrorist organization like the Fireflies would have taken that cure and used it as a leverage for power. Anybody who didn't like the fireflies would suffer. Marlene was more than happy to sacrifice people for her goals.

[@lizzyleea]

Yeah, laura bailey is my favorite voice actor. I dont like how once ppl decided they hate a fictional character in the game they project it onto the voice or actor behind said character. She clearly deserved none of it. Id say shes done a good job portraying abby even tho abby herself was shit. Never liked death threats and all that but hey, those extreme haters could at least go for Neil instead of her. He is pretty much responsible for almost everything thats bad in this game.

[@lelandgrey8587]

@@lizzyleea i couldn't agree more

[@Науэль2002]

No one deserves a death threat for making a goddamn video game yk...

[@Editor_Brad]

For a game that tells you that everyone has an ellie or joel, the game does its best to tell you that the only people that cant have eachother are ellie and joel

[@alexisaguirrevazquez7900]

Oh the irony.

[@leonecartelreborn9628]

Makes it especially shitty when you consider the game was falsely advertised as another JOEL and ELLIE adventure.

[@solidsnake7167]

Yeah well life isn’t fair KIDDO. Not everything deserves a happy ending.

[@leonecartelreborn9628]

@@solidsnake7167 You must be fun at parties.

[@solidsnake7167]

@@leonecartelreborn9628 parties are more fun when I’m not surrounded by entitled bozos that suk each other off to cookie cutter endings/stories. No they want fairytale life in an unforgiving world defined by pain, anguish, murder. They didn’t want a divisive game/story even tho the first game was meant to be as equally divisive. The kind of party where people cry like cnts is not the kind of party I want to be at

[@JAYDOG1337A]

*kills a thousand thugs to get to the final boss* "I'm going to let you live because I'm a good person"

[@otakamerd1220]

I think it's ludicrous that a game tries to make me feel bad for killing cartoonishly evil characters when it places them in my way like a row of perfectly stacked cans I don't care if they give half their income to disabled kids, I'm pumping these fuckers with lead because I paid for an action game and damn well am getting one

[@squidlytv]

Its as if the developers got off to ludonarrative dissonance.

[@Vanessa-xx3yz]

Knowing I would never shoot a real person in the face helps me to enjoy violent games and understand that they don't create active shooters. That, and I'm not a typical mom in 1998.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

I'm not even a fan of the game or played it and see no need for people to feel sorry for abby or even want to play as her after she kills a beloved character

[@squidlytv]

@@donavonhoward1899 The story is contrived and destroys what made people connect to the first game and replaced it with something inferior. The story took risks that didn't pay off and made controversial decisions with reckless abandon. The writers gaslight you into forced empathy for a murderer. And turns its main protagonist into a hollow shell of her former self for an "gritty" morally dark ending. The story drains away any emotional investment in the characters and by the end of the second game its hard to find anything to care about. People don't like the story because the writers broke the illusion and fumbled the magic trick. The story gaslights you and uses emotional manipulation to make you feel bad. The game attempts to make you feel bad for having fun in the game. The game makes you feel anger and frustration for the writers and by the end apathy for the characters. "Hard to please" more like you have low standards.

[@shakkabo]

@@squidlytv That's what you feel from the game. Most players enjoyed the game because it was great.

[@jamarr27]

I said the same thing about Joel. They made Joel an idiot for plots sake

[@cinemacrow2521]

No u

[@aydenhaze9015]

They just made him careless. Hes been living peacefully in jackson for years at this point. Plus meeting up with abbys group was his only choice because of the horde of zombies that was chasing him down

[@jamarr27]

@@aydenhaze9015 living careless in the jackson confine does not change the outside world. The same merciless type of people still exist. You'd have to be really dumb to trust people from outside of your situation on the first meeting without vetting the outsiders.

[@aydenhaze9015]

@@jamarr27 well not only the carelessness but the fact that joel and tommy had no other choice. Their was a hoard of infected chasing them down. It even states in game their horses wouldn’t be able to make it back to jackson. As far as joel knew, abby was just some lost girl he had saved that was traveling with a group.

[@jamarr27]

@@aydenhaze9015 those points are true but he still could have gave them a fake name because he has no idea what their intentions are. As far as we know people outside of Jackson are still cut throat and trying to survive and will kill to do it.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

Other things that drive me nuts 1. A tropical fungus surviving in a Wyoming Winter 2. Let's have a death cult of super emos who whistle as loud as possible in a city full of infected who can hear you if you walk too fast and pray to a dead hippie AND everyone on that island is either Andre the Giant or a 4'11 women who can somehow shoot better than Hawkeye and Legolas 3. Seattle is an enormous city but the WLFs are confined to a football stadium? You'd think after 20 years of fighting they'd manage to control more of their own city with more safe zones they've cleared the infected out of or there'd be MORE infected in a place like Seattle where fungus thrive in all that dark dampness? 5. How the heck do the Wolves control a hospital that was ground zero for the infected and never once bothered to go down into level one prepared to burn it all out to wipe out the infected? nor deal with infected trying to break out of the hospital especially with that Rat King lurking down there

[@robertkovarna8294]

Don't ask questions. Just consume product. Be happy with it then consume more product. Oh, and Niel Druckman didn't think about that as he was too busy sniffing his farts to think is writing was bad.

[@Montesama314]

"We decided to provide more feedback from the enemy AI like screaming for comrades as a way to make you think about who you're killing." "Well, what I THINK is that killing them is fun." "Wait, no, that's not what--" "LET'S PLAY THIS ENCOUNTER AGAIN!"

[@ExtremeMan10]

"Lets throw molotov into that cover to flush them out" *hears painful screams and havoc* "heh nice"

[@LFC_Fan23]

Agreed on Joel's death. I have no problem with him dying but the way they did it will never sit right with me. I think it would have been better if, in that situation, they were atleast a little weary, a little more cautious and that either he or Tommy noticed at the last moment that something wasn't right. So they'd try to fight back, get overpowered and Joel would eventually be killed. If he died like that, died putting up some resistance, then atleast he'd die resembling the Joel i knew from the first game. Because as it is now, i can buy that Joel and Tommy could have gone soft, even if the writers didn't foreshadow it, but one thing i can't buy is that Neither Joel Nor Tommy would have their survivors instincts ,that they gained over 20 years, telling them that something's wrong here.

[@terragthegreat175]

I also hate how the marketing was specifically designed to lie to the audience to make them believe Joel would live and have a role in the story. They straight up replaced characters with his. Also his death being so early just takes so much away from the story and leaves it just a depressing nightmare, which was Druckman's intention and its terrible. It's so thematically disconnected from the first one that it's hard to even see it as a sequel.

[@venomshakeXV]

i read your comment but all i see is “still mad that joel died” and that’s it. Joel was living in the peaceful place of Jackson with family and friends now. Joel had found peace living with Ellie and finally found a sense of safety. This isn’t the same joel we see in last of us because he doesn’t have to be that kind of man anymore. we see that progression happen throughout the first game and now he’s a man more willing on trusting others instead of being this loner only worried for his own back. In the end, this would ultimately be his down fall

[@LFC_Fan23]

@@venomshakeXV I thought i made it clear that i'm only upset about *HOW* Joel died and not the fact that he died. There is a difference. Yes, Joel lived in relative comfort and did not have to fight everyday for survival but he did go out on Patrols very often to fight bandits, and infected. For all he knew, Abby's group could have been bandits too. Hence why i think he would have been a bit more cautious. Besides that, in the flash backs, the game established that Joel still had some caution and ruthlessness in him, at least when it concerns Ellie. Remember the scene when he cut down a Bloater alone with a machete? Or when he made sure Ellie kept her mask on to keep her immunity a secret, even though they knew no one was around? I saw those as hints that Joel is still a pretty cautious and dangerous man. Like i said, a few years living in relative safety may make a man more trusting but i don't see it overpowering the 20 years of survival experiences and instincts he had before.

[@SoldierSpiderx]

agreed cause Joel and Tommy wouldn't trust random arm to teeth so easily close to their home, like bro that a big red flag right there and Joel never question why random peoples close to their home it arm up and don't try fight back and alot dumbass think we mad that Joel died no we mad how stupid he died, like if Joel got bitten cause of that bitch and Joel seal himself in and Elie come in and want to save him and she blame Abby for it that would been better

[@Ryan-cs3uc]

@@LFC_Fan23 I respect how they killed him off in terms of how ruthless it was but it felt way too rushed. Like let Joel and Tommy converse with them a little more, build tension, and then go all in. There was such good potential for a scene there that just wasn’t used. I’m assuming they did that because they wanted to shock the player and not give us enough time to process what was about to happen but it’s just dumb and wastes a strong moment. The ending of the game also just didn’t make any sense but that’s a can of worms in of itself

[@loganentertainment1814]

About 3 years in, and the game still sucks. I won't hate on anyone liking the game, but the story itself is the real problem. I don't care much for gameplay mechanics or graphics, it's always the story that matters to me.

[@darkninja9135]

What a baby!

[@karenwillreallyexposeyou8531]

@@darkninja9135"wHaT a BaBy"-🤓

[@darkninja9135]

@@karenwillreallyexposeyou8531 I mean he is a big baby and he cries a lot.

[@Jmcelwain17]

@@darkninja9135 idk you kinda seem like you're crying rn lol

[@darkninja9135]

@@Jmcelwain17 And you kinda seem like a butthurt snowflake.

[@dj-chemicalz811]

Haven't finished the video but I just wanna state a problem I have with the games message of 'revenge bad' Ellie is constantly demonized and made to look like a selfish prick for going on her revenge quest. She loses her girlfriend, her baby, almost all of her friends and even loses some fingers making her unable to play Joel's song essentially leaving her all alone all because she wanted revenge...which she didn't even get the satisfaction of getting because of BS. However Abby was constantly rewarded for getting her revenge. She found peace with herself, grew into a 'better' person, got her lover back, found a new family! She was rewarded at nearly every opportunity for what she did to Joel and if not for Ellie she would've gotten away with it. Hell even after Ellie killed her friends and she left Seattle things were going good for her up until being captured by the rattlers and even THEN she got away with everything! Getting on a boat and sailing away Scott free to recover and go back to normal. Abby was rewarded for revenge but Ellie was demonized sending horrible mixed messages. Also uh small side note but I find it hilarious how Ellie was basically called an evil psychopath for killing s pregnant woman in self defense because that same woman tried to kill her first and she didn't know about the woman being pregnant...and yet Abby was perfectly fine knowingly slitting a pregnant woman's throat even saying "good" when Ellie begged her not to. If not for her friend (who's name I've forgotten) she would've gleefully murdered a defenseless pregnant woman whereas Ellie had absolutely no choice in a kill or be killed situation with no prior knowledge.

[@crazyinsane500]

No no, you see, Abby lost her friends so she TOTALLY suffered for her revenge. I mean, it's not like that just means *other people* suffered consequences for her actions. From the mind of the author of TLOU2, who doesn't understand responsibility, that's totally equal to Ellie suffering personally.

[@imjaii]

Lmao did you forget Abby literally didn’t find peace at the end? And lost almost everyone besides the one person that helped her become a human again? Abby wasn’t rewarded at all neither of them were at the end

[@Ryan-cs3uc]

@@imjaii Abby finds the fireflies and is saved by the person she tortured a loved one in front of. Did she get out completely clean? No but she most certainly got her peace in the end

[@Ryan-cs3uc]

People will say that Abby losing all her friends is her revenge coming back on her but what really can be surmised from it is her sparing Ellie and Tommy came back to hurt her. The message of Abby’s revenge is don’t spare anyone. Not a really hopeful message imo

[@gabszz]

@@Ryan-cs3uc and on top of that, they were not actually her friends, she never suffered for then or get sad for them, she never even mentioned them or care to were they are, because the only person that abby actually cared about is owen, the guy who cheated his pregnant wife mel with abby. Abby betrayed the WLF group that she lived with for years for 2 kids that she know for 2 days, and decided to killed people from WLF for those 2 strangers, The only lost abby had is a guy that banged her and her gains. Ellie lost friends, like jesse, her father figure that saved her multiple times ,her uncle tommy that hate ellie for not finishing the revenge after losing so much because of abby, lost dina, and Jesse baby. Ellie lost a whole lot in the game in comparison to abby losing a cheater and her gains.

[@maulcs]

"Everything about how this game is written is meant to move along the plot no matter how little sense it makes" - you really hit the nail on the head with this video.

[@FREEMANnm]

The final straw that honestly took me out the game, was - during a damn apocalypse, where humans are slowly going extinct, everyone a was cool with sending a pregnant medic on a dangerous mission.

[@krasmasov6852]

That never happened. She was being sent by truck through WLF-controlled territory to work at the FOB on site. The only reason she saw combat at all was because Seraphites slipped past WLF lines and ambushed their truck.

[@christopherorrante289]

​@@krasmasov6852She shouldnt have been out there at all. Sending a pregnant women out on a assignment in a post zombie infected world is just a dumb idea

[@milacruz3970]

I hate that so much. She was also super pregnant, like, the stress of the car wreck could've easily done something to her. It's so stupid to disregard logic just so you can brag about having a feminist video game.

[@bbbtttt2267]

@@krasmasov6852 Man she was pregnant when she was in Jackson same with Dina. This game is so stupid

[@Gherkins]

@@milacruz3970she also did muscle ups and climbed up ropes

[@TukenNuken]

How TLoU should have ended: Jerry gets his throat ripped open by the zebra, because zebras are fucking vicious even when they aren't WOUNDED (and that absolute idiot got handsy with one). Ellie and Joel arrive. Marlene: "Sorry, we can't do the procedure. Our surgeon got murdered by a zebra." Ellie: "...what?" Joel: "Well shit... I guess we'll head back to Jackson then." THE END

[@datiger39]

Zebras are nasty Mofos fo sho sho, I mean they got to deal with lion prides so

[@AmericanImperium1776]

Lol 😂 This is canon.

[@AmariMarvelous]

I can hear their voices saying those lines lol

[@Icewallowcome012]

That firefly that Joel shot in the nuts in the cutscene still gets shot in the nuts too for whatever reason.

[@robertkovarna8294]

Abbey goes on a revenge quest to kill every Zebra on the planet.

[@7ylerD]

I think that if Joel had went missing with obvious signs of a struggle, and Ellie went across the country after him only to find him being tortured and then executed by Abby and crew. THEN they made us play as Abby leading up to the scene where they kidnap Joel, it would’ve been a more interesting game. Maybe Joel is willing to let Abby kill him when he realizes that her dad was the surgeon because he thinks it’ll keep Ellie safe and he accepts that what he did deserves consequences . Also, make her a big deal in the WLF, make the organization a threat to Jackson. Maybe she doesn’t bang Owen, she the leader guy’s side piece. Ellie wouldn’t know that Joel had let it happen and it would make the whole thing more absurd and tragic, but the character’s motivations would be better. Joel sacrifices himself for Ellie, Abby gets her revenge on the man who doomed the world and killed her dad, Ellie gets her motivation for revenge by witnessing Abby murder Joel. You can still throw in Yara and Lev, have Abby betray the WLF, and when Ellie spares Abby, it’ll be because she understands why she killed Joel and that Joel let it happen and ACTUALLY chooses to break the cycle of revenge.

[@summerrae8262]

This...... Would have been iconic.. OMG 😍 YASSSS

[@localwarlord]

It’s always someone sacrifices themselves for someone people die my boy they don’t always die as the sacrificial lamb because we love them I’m just saying tht could be changed if anything Joel’s death hit just right that shit hurted

[@ThatOneDude521]

Dude, I would’ve thrown money at this like it was my job. This is a perfect rewrite.

[@theaddictedgamer2222]

I’m sorry but this wouldn’t work at all considering why tf would you take care of a man you are trying to kill spending months crossing the country it just doesn’t make sense from the beginning

[@AgentNibbles]

When I shot and killed a woman and later read in some journal that she was actually pregnant my only reaction was "good". My friends think it's fucked up for me to say that but look at it this way, Niel put that there to make you feel bad but I instead ended up having 0 sympathy for someone who puts themselves in the front lines knowing they're pregnant. The game just tried too hard with that and it made me roll my eyes when they repeat the "you killed a pregnant woman" 3 more times after the first one.

[@krasmasov6852]

It's incredibly fucked up for you to think that way. Seriously, get therapy or something.

[@AgentNibbles]

@@krasmasov6852 They made the choice to go into the front lines knowing they're pregnant. They are very very likely to have a miscarriage or getting killed by someone. They know the risks and they endangered the unborn child. Tell me in what world should I feel bad for people that are that irresponsible. If they went scavenging near areas that were already safe I 100% understand that but in the front lines that's pretty much where I don't feel bad for them.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@AgentNibbles Genuine psycho. Jesus

[@edguardorivas4321]

​@@krasmasov6852 Bro they were pregnant, do you understand how stupid that is knowing this information and deliberately going into the FRONT LINES?

[@xeox4280]

@@krasmasov6852 why? So its fucked up and sich to break a stick too? Because its not a real human

[@jcelli98]

They really made TLOU 2 needlessly depressing, like the first one had depressing moments but 2 is all depressing

[@terragthegreat175]

Depressing stories ultimately work when they focus on the endurance of the human spirit through those negative experiences. But this game doesn't really do that.

[@krasmasov6852]

TLOU2 is not all depressing. It had just as many uplifting moments as the first game, though they were all still existing among a backdrop of darkness....just like the first game.

[@sleepchasers08]

@@krasmasov6852 then explain the ending for Ellie in this game. Go ahead.

[@ElementVoidX]

@@sleepchasers08 he can't, just like any fanboy he just expects you to take his words as facts.

[@jesse646]

@@sleepchasers08 Ellie was able to move on and forgive Joel for what he did. She was still sad but she started to get better.

[@wood1066]

It's funny how this games story is so bad they're going back to remake the first game. Although considering what ND did to this game they'll probably find some way to ruin the first game now.

[@ExtremeMan10]

remake? I thought they are going to remaster it for new consoles, mainly PS5, remake would be any good for them right now, instead they could remake Uncharted

[@stingerredshock3418]

@@ExtremeMan10 Keep up with the news. They are pretty open about remaking TLOU 1 and altering story details. Because Cuntman hates TLOU 1, as it was a collaborative effort and not his own creation.

[@christopheryanez]

@@ExtremeMan10 nope, it’s gonna be a remake lmao. I guarantee you they’re remaking OG TLOU to justify the bs that is smeared across TLOU2.

[@christianalexander579]

It's not a remake it's literally the same game from 2013 a remake means a whole new story

[@wood1066]

@@christianalexander579 no, it's literally being remade from the ground up. A remake doesn't mean they have to change the story. For example the PS4 version of the Last of Us is a remaster as it's the same as the PS3 version just with a resolution boost and runs at 60fps. You can't call the PS5 version a simple resolution boost.

[@jarezbear9502]

This game shits all over the characters they created and we fell in love with. Joel dies a horrible painful death, and Ellie descends into madness and succumbs to her greatest fear which is being alone. It's like naughty dog wanted to punish us for liking these characters.

[@migarsormrapophis2755]

Game: "You want to kill this torturer/murderer? Too bad! The torturer/murderer represents queerness, so you have to forgive, uh, him? Her? And the person this torturer/murdered tortured and murdered was a symbol of masculinity and fatherhood, _a terrible thing,_ so you should be happy he got tortured and murdered!" Player: "Everything you preach is wrong." Game: "If you don't like it, you're homophobic."

[@KillerBsan_]

Cuckydog

[@S0kk3rm0m]

its a tragedy. its not supposed to be happy.

[@Kaliospectre]

Holy shit, this is the most well-put together critique of TLoU II that I've seen and it's a concise 42 and a half minutes. My dude was just dropping bombs left and right and addressing counterpoints with sound logic instead of dancing around points going "uhhh I don't think it's that bad." And that point about diversity is right on, if developer's actually cared about diversity they should be making those characters front and center, actually treat them with respect, and write them well. Otherwise, they really shouldn't bother if they're not gonna do that, no representation is better than terribly done representation.

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

It would’ve been way more ballsy of them to make Lev the other perspective character. Plus he’s a more interesting character than Abby IMO. Instead it feels like a lot of this diversity talk feels like they had a checklist to mark off. Appreciate you watching!

[@The_MEMEphis]

Nakey jakey had a good one to

[@kaisolomon5187]

The spirit is okay but we gotta stop treating marginalized groups as people who don't exist unless they are to be used for something. Newsflash: queer and black people exist, there shouldn't need to be some grand justification for why a non-white or non straight character exists in a piece of media.

[@kaisolomon5187]

@@datiger39 upper echelon games is a shit page. The funnel and feed the anti sjw pipeline which leads into the alt right pipeline.

[@Kaliospectre]

​@@kaisolomon5187 I wholeheartedly agree, but I really dislike it when they are present but are represented poorly. Like if you're not even going to treat these people like regular human beings why bother trying to put them in? I think Star Trek Beyond did it right with Sulu, and even recently with Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, despite my problems with that movie, how representation was handled was not one of them.

[@austinwalker240]

I’m gonna be real, I tried really hard to just get Abby killed at every step of that fight with Ellie. But I was also super proud of Ellie because she was a little badass.

[@GhostwalkerSparrow]

Lil badass grew up

[@timkasansky2528]

i still can't believe someone wrote about Ellie going for vengeance seeing red and finds Abby weakened and tied and instead of blasting her head off, a complete overkill, decides to fist fight her lol Sooooo stupid. It's hard to empatize with characters when their actions are so unreasonable. It would sit better with me if Ellie actually killed her then regretted it immediately than this crap they did.

[@metalmayfantasy]

The game has amazing production value and you can tell the devs took care and put passion into making the game, too bad the story is utter crap.

[@comicnerd420]

Well if you hate weed, gay romance, and survival vengence i guess it's bad.

[@kelp7060]

@@comicnerd420 And if you ignore this video and all the arguments and live in your own little fairy land, then I guess I can see how you came to that conclusion.

[@comicnerd420]

@@kelp7060 most people complaints I've see is. Bitching that Ellie is gay, or that she's smoking weed. Real strange shit to be complaining about just saying. You have to be clutching your pearls to hate the romance story or the characters. It's not like the characters are mary sues like master cheif or gears of war Characters. Those games are so boring because the main character is too perfect and boring.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@kelp7060 This video didn't have any good arguments.

[@metalmayfantasy]

@@comicnerd420 I find it hilarious how this is one of the only games that, if criticized, then someone is automatically labeled a homophobe.

[@metalnerd3855]

The first Last Of Us is one of my favorite Playstation games ever probably in my top 15 games of all time, I just pretend that Last Of Us Part 2 never happened.

[@LongStar117]

Last of Us part2? What is that? Ive never heard of it but I did like this game called the last of us. To my knowledge they did not and never will make a sequel.

[@robinthrush9672]

I try to do the same with Metroid: Other M

[@DougieYT]

There’s a sequel to Part 1??? When???? Or did they have a collab with The Walking Dead? 😂

[@Yes_Fantasy_419]

Reminder: Adolf Hitler and the Nazis loved playing with dogs so Abby liking dogs isn't a legitimate reason to like her.

[@bbbtttt2267]

Even race of the dogs is the same German Sheperd :D

[@dekrev]

I’ve played the last of us 7 times - all the way through. I’ve played TLOU2 once - tried a second playthrough but gave up an hour in. Game play was great but man that story really blows.

[@javierperezmerino9457]

So... What was the difference between both?

[@dekrev]

@@javierperezmerino9457 the story - it was just awful - by comparison. Character motivations were unclear or idiotic. Established characters were wildly different and poorly crafted. It just didn’t resonate with me like the first one.

[@robogreek3157]

​@@javierperezmerino9457 EASY. the first game had Joel a RELATABLE EXCELLENT PROTAGONIST. this one makes you care about the sadistic bitch that kills him. This could of been a trilogy of Joel and ellie. But Neil cuckman to the rescue

[@Ntfshr]

Say what you want about Ellie’s story, but if you’re saying Abby’s story blows you just don’t have the comprehension skills for it

[@dekrev]

@@Ntfshr objectively, Abby’s story is terrible - a sociopaths father dies trying to kill a young girl for a ‘potential’ cure, becomes friends with everyone except the man who saves her life, then goes on a killing spree to help a former religious fanatic She does help a zebra -

[@robchuk4136]

"If I had my hands on the throat of someone who killed a person I loved, and I had a flashback of that person in the middle of it, you best believe I'm tightening that grip!"- Lol Yea, I can f with this review. I agree that playing with Abby IS kinda fun, since she fulfills the brute role that Joel used to. But I never got attacked at a workbench, so I'm surprised to see that was a thing. I think the gameplay of TLOU2 is great (I even like the walking lol). My issues are all writing-based, and there are a lot of great points here. Some that always bothered me, like the MYRIAD of illogical character decisions, and some that I hadn't even thought about. Like Abby never really knowing who Ellie is, and how that kinda matters. I agree that the flashback narrative about forgiving Joel should have been the main story. Or how a choice-based game would have been better, since it constantly lectures your actions anyway. REALLY good point about Lev waking up and begging Ellie to stop, as a mirror of the beginning. I can't believe there are all these little ways that would have made a big difference. And the kicker is, the folks who love the game would have still loved it! All that changes is that the people who disliked the game would have liked it better! And that's what I see as the tragedy of TLOU2. The first game is almost universally beloved by it's fans. Now it's divisive.The first is considered one of the best examples of narratives in gaming. This is one of the worst. I never thought they should have made a sequel or messed with the open ending. The beauty of that last scene is leaving it to interpretation. Instead, the sequel directly lays out how the ending was supposed to be viewed, and punish the character for it, (because that's what a lot of KZbin Hot Takes had been asking for ever since it happened.) TLOU2 being a letdown is a tragedy because it sullies what was an unimpeachable IP. I still like TLOU2 from a technical standpoint. Graphics, performances, music, and the stealth are all dope. But if you were to tell me a new game would crap all over the legacy of the first, I'd tell you I'd rather that game not exist at all, and that's where I'm at with TLOU2.

[@lizzyleea]

This comment is pretty much what I think of this game. Maybe as a standalone game it wouldnt have been so bad, but a sequel to TLOU? Yeah I would rather this one didnt exist.

[@ryzigg7187]

Imagine how awkward it would have been if she’d have caught the wrong Joel 😂 that shit would’ve been hilarious I wanna see that game where Ellie runs in and it’s the wrong guy getting beat to death with a golf club and Ellie doesn’t even care

[@krasmasov6852]

She knew she had the right Joel though. This is directly explained.

[@ryzigg7187]

@@krasmasov6852 that’s why I said imagine

[@krasmasov6852]

@@ryzigg7187 So a completely fake scenario that doesn't make sense for the story at all. Great joke, dude.

[@ryzigg7187]

@@krasmasov6852 thank you

[@youkilledabout53cats29]

@@krasmasov6852 how

[@Viczization]

Exactly why I couldn’t touch this game. After hearing all the bs from my friends and other KZbinrs, I realized that naughty dog practically abandoned any characteristics they initially set up. I mean this was a good concept that was HORRIBLY executed. However, there are a million others scenarios they could have utilized to killed Joel that would have made sense and felt justified. SMH 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@gurgamous]

same. I adore the first game. I went from having monumental anticipation to being so indifferent that I never even bought it and have no plans on playing.

[@Kira_Official_]

This is definitely one of the best videos that has counter points to everything TLOU2 supporters have. They make every character an idiot just so that the plot can move forward. It doesn't matter that Joel has been surviving in this war-torn world for over 20 years, he's been living in peace for like 3 1/2 years, so that immediately erases all of his experience. We're just supposed to assume he got rusty instead of showing us that he did. Had they taken at least a portion of the beginning of the game to establish that, people probably wouldn't have gotten mad at how stupid his death is. But with the evidence we have, Joel is basically the same person up until he meets Abby and her friends in that cabin. Abby as a character sucks. Mel calls her a piece of shit, and she's right. She's a terrible person who suffers from little consequences for her actions. Her friends die sure, but honestly, I don't think she even cared about any of them besides Manny (sort of, I think he's just someone she got along fine with), and Owen but only because they used to fuck. She doesn't care about Mel in any way until she's pregnant and then dies like an idiot, and to me, her relationship with Yara and Lev felt kinda forced, as it just feels like they're trying to do the same thing Ellie and Joel did… which they were and it was obvious. The side characters are super weak, forget Abby's friends because I couldn't get into their characters from the start, because they helped kill Joel and I already knew they were all gonna die anyways. Yara and Lev were the first characters I actually started to like, but Yara dies, and Lev was kinda underutilized. Dina feels like a copy of Ellie, but significantly less interesting, Jesse after awhile I started like. Felt like he could've been Ellie best friend now that they're gonna have to be, because of Dina being pregnant, but then he dies and gets forgotten about, because I guess Neil didn't like him that much. I'm rambling longer than I should, but my point is that I agree with everything in the video. I also didn't even notice the minority stuff until you pointed it out. It is kinda weird how minorities die, but the white women survive even after moments where they definitely should have. Like, remember how Ellie got the wound after being hung from a tree? How didn't she bleed out? Then she kills Fat Geralt. That was the most unforgivable thing she did.

[@ultimamage3]

"her relationship with Yara and Lev felt kinda forced, as it just feels like they're trying to do the same thing Ellie and Joel did… which they were and it was obvious." Abby suddenly cares about Yara and Lev and goes through Joel's whole character arc in only 3 days, when just prior, Abby was just fine torturing Scars and killing Scar kids. She's THE top Scar killer in the WLF. Yara and Lev actually have no reason to trust Abby and Lev should've popped her with an arrow as soon as he heard her name, because Abby must have killed someone they cared about (like the father of the family who I'm pretty sure is never mentioned, since Lev's story focuses on convincing only his mom to get off the island).

[@krasmasov6852]

@@ultimamage3 Abby's character arc is different from Joel's. Joel has an aversion to attachment that he reluctantly overcomes. Abby has a need to do good that she eagerly engages with. They're basically opposites in that regard.

[@krasmasov6852]

No character is an idiot. They all make believeable choices based on their motivation and mindset at the time. Joel made all the right choices from a survivalist's perspective. He couldn't fight the horde or fight a blizzard. Going with Abby was his only option. Abby as a character is great. Mel is partially right, but Abby is actively trying to be better. That's what her entire story is about. Her consequences are harsh and severe too, and they're most impactful regarding the deaths of her friends, who she obviously cares deeply about. She was outright in love with Owen to the point that she still writes letters to him as a way to cope with his death. The player can find one in Abby and Lev's boat at the beginning of Ellie's Santa Barbara sequence. She used to be really close with Mel, but they drifted apart since Mel and Owen got together after Owen and Abby broke up. Nothing about her relationship with Yara and Lev is forced. She's actively trying to keep them safe because she's desperate to do some good. She explains this all but verbatim when Lev asks her why she's helping. Abby says she's doing it out of guilt and to lighten the load on her conscience. Characters like Owen, Dina, and Lev were all more developed than any side character from Part 1. Not sure how Lev was underutilized either. Dina is much different from Ellie, especially considering that she and Ellie literally have a conflict so bad that it destroys their family. Jesse doesn't get forgotten about after his death. He's mentioned three times afterwards. People of all kinds die in the story. Why would Ellie bleed out from that wound necessarily? And shooting the slaver is unforgiveable? He's a slaver.

[@cityrat3237]

@@ultimamage3she doesn’t suddenly care, see this is how I know ya’ll who dislike the game don’t even like think while playing it. She literally does not care for them but own manages to changer mind as well as her recent experience with the wolves and how she begins to see the cracks in the organization which she always saw but now that they are hunting Owen she is against them.

[@Arrowzeditz]

​@cityrat3237 No, just, no. Abby does not suddenly "see the cracks of the WLF." Nothing is ever stated that she resents the WLF, and only goes after them because "she feels gulity". So, people save your life, and you feel a guilt for leaving them behind. Hmm, tell me where did this happen before? AT THE FUCKING BEGINNING OF THE GAME. Joel saves her life, yet she feels no second thoughts about killing him, at all. She also doesn't feel guilty about it. She doesn't show any signs of regret, and straight thinks she's the morally superior side in all of this.

[@lvl5dino749]

One thing I don't think Ellie ever said was "You killed my dad!" Perfect segway into Abby being able to give her side of the story too

[@SamuelCaramell]

Is funny how this line could at least save a little respect with abby but they did not even tried that

[@donchi1234]

@@SamuelCaramellExactly…they both lost their father and it could have been an actually important moment in the story and it could have make sense if they just forgived each other..would have made way more sense then Ellie just randomly let’s her go

[@nou1186]

Because she would literally never say that lol

[@donchi1234]

@@nou1186 Everybody looked at Joel as Ellie’s dad…and Ellie too…she was the first one to bring that up in the first game when she compared herself to Sarah

[@nou1186]

@@donchi1234 But she never once referred to Joel as her dad in either game. She clearly loved him and saw him as a fatherly figure, but that doesn’t mean she thought of him as her literal dad. She always called him Joel and nothing else, and the rest is unspoken or implied.

[@netrox0072]

This game sucks at trying to talk about forgiveness, Mercy or that violence is wrong. For example: *Abby kills Joel Abby Later: Wow, I slept so Good last night! 🤭 *Ellie kills Nora Ellie Later: I don't even recognize myself anymore... What am I doing? 😢

[@krasmasov6852]

The game makes it clear that Abby continues to suffer from nightmares even after she kills Joel. She only sleeps good after she saves Lev and Yara.

[@netrox0072]

@@krasmasov6852 She only had 1 nightmare, even that was about Lev and Yara, where she feels compassionate for them. She didn't show any kind of remorse or regret after killing Joel

[@krasmasov6852]

@@netrox0072 Owen mentions her recurring nightmares before she kills Joel. They are established both before and after. And her nightmare wasn't just about Lev and Yara. Consider the context. In the dream, where did she find them lynched? Right, her dad's operating room. Plus, there's also the part where Abby outright says that she's helping Lev out of guilt as a way to lighten the load. And there's the fact that the story doesn't make sense if she doesn't regret killing Joel.

[@Wyr_111]

I tried playing it, I really did, but I just couldn't play as Abby after what she did. It would have been so much better if the game started with Ellie and Abby meeting up shortly after the truth is revealed to Ellie. They could start a friendship, or even become romantically involved. We could have spent the first half of the game building up the characters. Falling in love with them, as we did in the first game. Ellie could bring Abby to Jackson to begin their life together when she meets Joel and after a few plot points, Abby would kill Joel after she puts two and two together. Then we could go after Abby and hunt her as we did in the actual game only we would be more conflicted because we've learned to love Abby at this point. Overall it was a missed opportunity, and I'm still extremely sad that the sequel didn't live up to the hype.

[@justinwatson7778]

I feel you they wanted to make it more dramatic because Ellie Was just developing her relationship with Joel again after being pissed off for a long time they were supposed to watch a movie I forgot what you want I really wish Joel didn’t pass on and move to glory I really hate that about the game I was really pissed at the end of the day he saved Abby

[@ice_bagel2597]

Huh?

[@ludnirg810]

What In the fanfic

[@TheLivingPizza4]

I just don't like Abby point blank period she simply no matter what the implementation would've been a net negative i would've preferred to have a game that didn't have joel or ellie at all or just make a prequel of joels life after his daughters death but b4 ellie

[@Wyr_111]

@@TheLivingPizza4 I think that would have been interesting, I wanted a game that focused more on the infected rather than the human element of the Apocalypse

[@Hopoy1]

IMAGINE the only comeback for a person that likes this dogshit game is “You only hate the game because joel died”

[@machodgdon]

3 years later this video still is facts

[@crazycat690]

The Last of Us Part II being the most awarded game ever baffles me beyond comprehension, like I get that there are many journalists out there who wants to like it because it's edgy and controversial and that makes them look smart when they like something that "you just don't get, bro". However, there's not anyone who can see how transparent that is? No one who isn't so easily swayed by Druckmann's pretention? Who am I kidding, these are gaming journalists. Fun fact, they were gonna have a revenge story in the first game with Tess hunting down Joel down but the team thought it was too unrealistic that someone would travel across the country in that world just for revenge. With Straley leaving and Druckmann getting more power my money's on that he still really liked that idea and now there was no one left who could say no to him so with the sequel he made his revenge plot, everything else be damned. I really hope this game isn't showing us the future of Naughty Dog games, granted, outside of the first TLoU game the writing and story haven't been that deep or without plot holes, but holy shit this game was poorly thought out.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

I was never a fan of the series but I understood why the first game was one of the best games and praised for it but last of 2 is a badly written game that gives the player no choice

[@crazycat690]

@@donavonhoward1899 The "you just don't get it" defense of any story has never impressed me. I do get it, I just think it's dumb, poorly thought out and with questionable writing. Believe it or not I didn't really hate the story up until the ending, the ending was so dumb though so it made the whole story that much worse. However I didn't really have a problem with Joel's death, sure it was done in a rushed and dumb way and it felt a bit cheap to off him after the fakeout death in the first game but whatever. I mean from the announcement trailer many figured that Joel would be dead meat in the sequel, so that's not the issue, it was just overly predictable. Generally speaking, if you're gonna act like a pretentious twat who's so much smarter than everyone else it's best to not assume why people dislike something beforehand. I'm not one of the people who's just upset that Joel died and can't stand that Ellie is gay or think Abby is a trans man simply for having muscles. I have legitimate gripes with the story and if you'd watch the video we're commenting under maybe you'll see some of those gripes. A story doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be without holes, but hot damn this was a mess. Especially compared to the last game, which it what made it so disappointing.

[@eobardthawn6903]

@@theoutsiderjess1869 Who was Tess? I honestly forgot. My memory is not what it was before. I would argue that people who enjoyed the first game dislike the secend game mostly because it eviscerates the previous theme, has poor character development, a jumbled plot, and poor execution. I dont give a fuck about the "woke" aspect, that didn't make the game worse or better, I just dislike how awful the character development was everywhere. The two things I care about: Character development and plot execution. For the most part, everything else is secend nature. Bank Heist taught me that. The fact that it had a shitty sub made it feel like an anime, the man had a harem too, which made it very, very special.

[@crazycat690]

@@eobardthawn6903 Tess was that sassy brunette that Joel worked with in the beginning, got infected trying to get Ellie out of the city IIRC. The original plan was that she had a brother who would've died in the crossfire when smuggling out Ellie from the quarantine zone, then blames Joel and hunts him throughout the game. That is, before they abandoned the plot for being too unrealistic. Imagine that, trying to track down one man in an apocalyptic America filled with infected and killers, and then actually managing to do it without dying in the process? How ridiculous.

[@eobardthawn6903]

@@crazycat690 She would've lived threw a bite though. That woulve made no sense if she wasn't immune as well. For me that's the biggest plot hole, Abby felt like a shit ton of plot same with Ellie, that doesn't really bother me, just that they established being infected is uncureable unless your Ellie. Other people were probably like that off screen though...

[@ryman1933]

Why does abby get the happier ending? She cheated with her friends baby daddy, who happened to be her ex. She betrayed people who had known her for years, people who probably called her their friend. Yet she switches sides and kills them with zero remorse at the drop of a hat to save two random kids she has known for 5 minutes. She is a flip flopping psychopath with no consistent morals. The only person she was mad about dying is Owen, the rest she simply did not care at all. She is a villain who somehow gets the happy ending, riding off into the sunset to reunite with her firefly friends, lev by her side, and she suffers no permanent injury or consequences of her revenge or her betrayal. She has next level plot armor the whole game. Meanwhile, Ellie never gets her revenge, and yet is completely forsaken. Broken mentally and physically, nobody left by her side, and as one last middle finger to her character she loses her fingers and can no longer play guitar, her last connection to Joel now gone. Tommy never gets his revenge, yet he now has a permanent limp, blinded in one eye, his wife left him, and he is now a bitter lonely man. So, let me ask you this, why does Ellie and Tommy lose more in pursuit of revenge than Abby loses after getting revenge AND betraying her former group? What message is that supposed to send? If the message is that revenge is bad, then why does Abby more or less get away with no consequences, besides her ex-boyfriend dying, and losing her unrealistically big muscles. She still has the more hopeful ending. She is a villain propped up as a hero by a game writer that doesn't understand how to make relatable characters. It took Joel and Ellie a year to bond, and by the end you understand why Joel did what he did to save her, whether it was right or wrong. Abby has zero justification to do what she did, she saved those kids out of her own selfish guilt and nothing else. Imagine if Joel had only known Ellie for one day, and then proceeded to wipe out the fireflies to save her, it would make no sense and feel rushed. Which is exactly how they wrote Abbys sorry excuse for a story, they tried desperately to make her a parallel to Joel by showing her saving some kids and standing against a group to do so, but they rushed it so hard it felt unearned and not genuine at all. If anything, it makes her look even worse as a person who acts without thought or remorse. And this isn't even taking into account the countless actions and decisions that the characters make that nobody with half a brain would ever make. These characters do things that make no sense, stuff the characters would never do. The plot relies on the characters making consistent wrong choices, and convenient coincidences to drive the plot forward. Druckman forced them to do last minute rewrites, and it's painfully obvious at some parts in the plot that barely make sense if at all. The last minute rewrites to make the game more "inclusive" as Druckman was self admittedly inspired by anita sarkesian and wanted to make changes to reflect her views. Sarkesian believes all games are sexist, racist, and not inclusive enough. Because in the zombie apocalypse the truly important thing is two lesbians, gender confused children, biology defying muscular women, pregnant women fighting frontline combat, and a male character whose only purpose in the story was to be a sperm donor and then was killed off because his usefulness as a male character was gone. All father figures are killed or taken out of the picture, Jerry, Jesse, and Joel. The game released on fathers day weekend. Surely just a coincidence right? You know a game is bad when their own employees leak the plot changes before release in an effort to warn actual fans.

[@Glocka-TV]

Wow I didn’t even realize it doesn’t make sense that Abby save lev & yara not to mention that she clearly didn’t care that what the peace treaty to end were her people killing kids that were scars granted they attacked to but they were still kids nonetheless. Great point by the way

[@ryman1933]

@@Glocka-TV thanks for reading

[@kickass_jones96]

Also want to add with Ellie getting nothing, she’s completely by herself. Meanwhile Abby also learned that the fireflies are still around. Ellie’s worse nightmare came true. “I’m scared of ending up alone” a quote from her in the first game, and Abby gets Lev and possibly will eventually find her old group. There’s so much hope on Abby’s side. Like WTF was this bullshit.

[@ryman1933]

@@kickass_jones96 100% it simply makes no sense, and does everything to destroy the characters from the first game, while trying desperately to set up the new characters from the second game. It completely fails to make the new characters half as likable as the old characters.

[@S0kk3rm0m]

how is abby saving kids a bad thing ? your trying to villianize her for no reason. just because they are people she knew for longer doesnt mean she would blindly follow thier beliefs; if she did it would just mean she's in a cult. The fact of killing children is pretty straightfoward to understand, it doesnt matter how long she knew them. and the WLF had nobody she really cared about left, all of her real friends and connections are either dead or being threatened by her "people". and saying that she is biology defying is just ignorant and misogynistic when people like colleen fost exist. and your connecting dots where there are none; why does it matter that there are lesbians and gender confused children if it has no major impact on the plot. now i would agree if these characters were used just to promote being gay or trans but there not, the apocalypse doesn't stop humans from being humans and humans are definitely far from perfect. and amounting Jesse as a character as being a sperm donor is just confusing, he was not a major character in the game and his use as a companion and as a friend to ellie and dina was the point of his character. and why does everything have to go well for ellie and tommy? the story is not supposed to be happy, if everyone got what they wanted that would be more plot armor than abby having a "happy" ending; which definately wasnt happy just hopeful. abby is not the so called villan of the story, if thats what you got out of the game then your assesment of her character is pretty narrow. the story is ultimately up to this point a tragedy. the first game didnt have a super happy ending either, joel lied to ellie so she wouldnt hate him for betraying her. im not saying that joel was wrong I think any normal human would have done the exact same thing but that doesnt mean that ellie was wrong for hating him either because of what he did. the point of the second game is ellie forgiving not just abby but joel too as we can see in the flashback she has while fighting abby.

[@GlitchTheLitch]

This video nicely sums up everybody's thoughts that were disappointed. The game is so at war with itself over what it wants to be. -It wants you to see both sides? Abby doesn't even know Ellie's name, let alone her perspective. -Revenge isn't worth it? It sure was for Abby, who's at peace with herself after rescuing Lev and is going off to re-up the Fireflies (even gets spared by Ellie despite fucking her more than Dina did). -Ellie's immunity is legit a non-factor etc. It just fails to deliver on all the fronts that it introduced and isn't a coherent fit with the 1st game. A trite revenge story that folds in on itself.

[@krasmasov6852]

-Doesn't matter. Abby learned the futility of revenge the hard way. -No, it wasn't. Because of Abby's revenge, she was burdened with immense guilt and lost all of her friends from Salt Lake including the man she was in love with. -It comes up three times actually.

[@sirtickleshitz]

I remember the last person I told that I didn't like this game, dude started throwing a temper tantrum and whining about how I just didn't like Abby, the graphics, story, and combat were the best ever made. Yet couldn't tell me why the story was good.

[@bbbtttt2267]

I love when that people are saying that this game is so deep when actualy it's childish and cliche :)

[@andrewdaniels2173]

The fact that you don’t get a choice to kill Abby at the end of the game is a missed opportunity in my opinion.

[@ab_mcfly99]

Literally the only thing I would change!

[@refinedcigarette9103]

Tlou 2 feels like the caterpillar ride from the county fair. Its semi exciting for the first half, then its over and you're like "that was it?" . It's also fitting since it tries to teach you a lesson fit for a 4 year old.

[@kdubbss0583]

My biggest issue with the game is that it feels like it goes out of its way to villainize Ellie to prop up Abby. In the game, Abby at no point in time acknowledges the damage and trauma she caused Ellie, but the game wants us to sympathize with Abby’s trauma and reasoning for revenge. It just seems so counterintuitive.

[@crazyinsane500]

Well that's because that's exactly the case. The plan was to destroy everything from the first game to pivot to making the franchise about Abby. Really childish reason for it, too. Neil Druckman was upset that people were successful because they didn't listen to him and wanted to prove he was a big boy writer with good ideas, so this is just his 220 million dollar temper tantrum.

[@kdubbss0583]

@@crazyinsane500hmmm.. that makes sense honestly. I haven’t followed a lot about the game since its release, but the fact that in the making of video they just released, they confirmed Ellie was the villain. And it doesn’t make sense.

[@NyssasOrbit]

I think you're the only person I've come across that mentioned how all the black characters died in the first game, and I'm honestly amazed so few people have pointed that out

[@big_red01027]

If writing in games is going to be this poor, I'd rather see stories like the one in _Super Mario 64_ instead.

[@HaveanOreshnik]

so should i not buy the game? just looking for an answer

[@big_red01027]

@@HaveanOreshnik I'm not even sure I would rent it (if such an option still exists).

[@HaveanOreshnik]

@@big_red01027 oh damn i mean i finished playing the first one and i got that post sad thing like when finishing a series

[@parhamshp389]

@@HaveanOreshnik story is a hit or miss. You might end up loving it or hating it. But everything else about the game is just great,specially the combat,it's so tense and satisfying so I recommend buying it.

[@Salvatorez1980]

@@HaveanOreshnik I think there’s other games that do a lot of the last of us stuff better, like red dead 2 has a pretty great story and cool combat that’s gritty and gory, the story gives you pretty good shooting gallery as well as other side activities you can spend time doing.

[@BWMagus]

Imagine if Joel had passed out along with Ellie near the Firefly compound in the first game, and Joel woke up in a cell, under guard, with Ellie out of sight, and they told him nothing, leading to him breaking out, cutting a bloody swath through the place, and rescuing Ellie before she could be experimented with? The end result of the plot, the effect on the world at large, would have been identical, but it would have utterly ruined the moral conflict and character development that the current ending created. All because Joel KNEW where he was, what was happening, what Ellie wanted, what he was about to lose, and what the cost was to keep it. The ethics DEBATE required his informed CHOICE to the ethical question at hand. This simple change would utterly ruin the entire story of the first game. And that's basically the biggest problem with the second game's story; all the arguments people make are academic, because they don't reflect the actual choices the actual characters actually made in the TLoU2. Yes, there is alot to criticize, 100%, but the failure to have a conflict of IDEOLOGY in this game is the worst aspect, as it means the fight is nothing but emotional outburst. It's like the difference between watching a documentary on a serial killer, trying to understand his sick mind, and hearing the story of a man who came home from work early one day to find another man banging his wife, and he shot both of them in a rage before they even realized he was there--yeah, we can understand it, but it's puddle-deep, sheer emotional outburst.

[@fritisrafi]

yet some people àre still trying to be philosophers to defend Neil Druckmn for this story, trying to justify it ànd tell us it's deeper thàn Whàt We think !

[@crazyinsane500]

Much like how the "fucking the hat on the sea ice" bit from Disco Elysium was a giveaway that it was never about the hat, "You just didn't understand it" from TLOU2 fans is a giveaway that it was never about the game.

[@fritisrafi]

@@crazyinsane500 why the hell àre you speàping this wày ? I didn't understànd à dàmn word you sàid ! càn't you just tàlk cleàrly ? I'm not thàt smàrt to understànd your deep shit ...

[@MarkMightBeBetter]

@@crazyinsane500 disco elysium was a good ass game, I just finished it a week ago.

[@benkenobi3364]

Studying the nature of extinct cultures and dead philosophies is fascinating.

[@ricorojas1854]

Loooool a game that condemns hyper violence only best feature is the hyper violence combat Druvkman even fails at the main point of his game mechanically

[@ernestogonzalez7800]

This game is also proof of the kind of yuppy world this people in the videogame and scriptwriting are living nowdays. Their fundamental lack of empathy is the main reason behind that everything they produce is overglorified trash

[@guitaoist]

I totally agree about the walking segments but u didnt mention that when you reviewed Spider-Man miles morales which had way too many of those :-)

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

Fair enough. I probably neglected to mention them there since I enjoyed that game more. But you’re right, they get annoying in any game if done too much.

[@WeedsterDuck]

@@Nassit-Gnuoy yeah especially red dead 2 so lower your points for them too

[@johnbishop2536]

@The Horny Vegan's Little Brother Took you 2 months for that

[@zzodysseuszz]

@The Horny Vegan's Little Brother uh no. That’s not what it means. Fair enough means they’re not wrong for bringing it up but there’s a good reason why they didn’t care about it in the other game

[@robchuk4136]

@The Horny Vegan's Little Brother When people say fair enough, it means they just don't want to waste more time going back and forth with strangers on the internet

[@samwallaceart288]

This, _Steven Universe,_ and _WandaVision_ all have the same story: "Being sad makes you the better person." Strength and confidence in one's own two feet are not only associated with villainy, but are specifically _what gives you_ the label of villain. The second you find out the character's sad, conflicted, or insecure because of past horseshit, boom: Misunderstood hero. Bonus points if you can shift all blame to some non-sad non-conflicted secondary "villain" who wouldn't even be there if the first "antihero" hadn't began the whole thing. Im still pissed because Agatha did nothing wrong. Sure her motives were selfish and she would _probably_ use those powers in the future to selfish ends, but I guarantee you Agatha would own that shit rather than hide behind her sadness. As it stands, her plan would've resulted in the town being saved and then a dice-roll on what she did next. Nothing about Wanda tops that. But no, Agatha is happy and takes full responsibility for her reality, so she _has_ to be wrong.

[@nont18411]

Thank you. They tried so hard to make Agatha evil by using that dumbass song. Let's look what she'd done so far: She killed the witches who attacked her first after she promised them that she will use her power for good so technically, it's 100% self-defense for Agatha, she killed a fake dog, she threatened fake kids and releasing some of the civilians from Wanda's mind control to make Wanda realize the damage she'd done. And what did she get? She got mentally enslaved in limbo for eternity. Agatha deserves so much better than this. And don't make me start with John Walker.

[@RueRyuzaki6]

Promising to use your dark powers for good is a pretty weak excuse. How do we even know the dog was fake? An entire town is bound to have some stray dogs running around. The kids might have been artificially created but that doesn't make their emotions and feelings any less real. Vision was the same but he still had free will and his personality. And let's be honest, she wanted Wanda's powers to become the scarlet witch. Agatha didn't give two fucks about the innocent civilians trapped in westville.

[@RueRyuzaki6]

I'm not defending Wanda's actions, what she did was wrong on many levels. But to act like Agatha didn't do anything wrong and wasn't going to abuse Wanda's powers way beyond what Wanda did to Westville is naive.

[@samwallaceart288]

@@RueRyuzaki6 Agatha did do nothing wrong though, because Wanda stopped her before she had the chance, and punished her to a mental prison for shit _she didn't even do yet._ Then Wanda bolted the second anyone decided to hold _her_ accountable for the things she succeeded in doing. Intent is bad but mental prison for life? Nah that's whack. Wanda wouldn't have released them if Agatha hadn't interfered. If I was one of the townspeople? F it. I'd side with Agatha if it meant toppling the hell I knew for a retry. Even Vision's free will couldn't get through to Wanda. I get that Agatha and the sword guy have ulterior motives but that doesn't outweigh that Wanda is by far the primary threat and wrongdoer in the scenario. By a mile.

[@thatromanfella8377]

It refers to the ideas of 'everyone is broken, everyone a victem' mindset. There can be no personal resonablity because no one is responsible for their actions.

[@DualWieldedEggrolls]

5:09 Unrelated, but I did this on my 2nd playthrough when going for Platinum, you can actually place a landmine near the entrance of where they "came" through or just anywhere behind Ellie. Kinda cool that you can avoid the ambush entirely.

[@knightfallprotocol]

Could you imagine if John Wick ended with him sparing the killer of his dog? That's this game in a nutshell.

[@GhostwalkerSparrow]

*goes off on a killing spree.* “but can’t you see revenge is bad…” *Leaves.* Like it would be one thing if Ellie didn’t want to go on a mindless killing spree and showed empathy to those who wronged her, but like even then I think most ethics and morals go out the window in a kill or be killed world.

[@yeatnumber1Dmuncher]

@@GhostwalkerSparrow "Nooo you don't get it, you have to have an iq over 350 to understand the story of tlou2"

[@BrandonGavin_EDC]

The other problem with the story is that one doctor with limited equipment is gonna make a cure out of one subject who’s immune? He even states in the game he has no idea if it will work. Given the state of the world the odds that a cure is ever found, especially with limited resources and only one medical professional on site is beyond dumb. Joel 100% made the right decision to save her life. If Ellie wants to be the savior at some point at least wait until you find a massive group of medical professionals, maybe a hidden government site with the tools to do it properly. That could be decades later.

[@milacruz3970]

And it's a vaccine for a fongus. It's uttely ridiculous how they want us to feel bad about an idiotic character like Abby's dad.

[@cargopilotguy305]

Also, This World has bio pharmaceutical production facilities that can reproduce this vaccine at scale and distribute it to the masses? They couldn’t even manage one clean operating room but they can make a vaccine and distribute it???😂😂😂

[@alansteel]

Dina doesn't get enough hate. She is the true Mary Sue. She is extremely narcissistic, everyone loves her, she is constantly singing her own praises, she behaves awfully, and no one ever calls her on it. The bad ending is because you Dina disapproves of Ellie's behavior. She always has some sarcastic comment towards Ellie. Why exactly does Ellie like this woman?

[@crazyinsane500]

Because if there's two gay people in a piece of media, untalented writers dictate that they MUST end up together regardless of mutual compatibility. Also their relationship must be founded on a purely sexual basis. Not only does Dina not get enough hate, not enough people are pointing out how she thoroughly makes the game fail the Vito-Russo test.

[@andrewkent7677]

Great video, you nailed every single point, depressing how many people fail to see the obvious flaws but at least this game sums up the crazy dumb gaslighting times we live in perfectly.

[@terragthegreat175]

This game should have been about Abby and WLF trying to kill Joel and Ellie both as revenge for what Joel did to Abbys father, but also for Joel disrupting the Fireflies plans to save the world. Then they could have had a real arc where Joel gets to explain his side of the story to Abby and force her to confront the fact that Abby doesn't know the full picture and that Joel had his reasons. Maybe Joel still dies near the end of the game, but it would have made for a much more complex and interesting story, and could have actually had a nuanced message to give, rather than just 'Violence bad (except when not)'

[@RetroWrathX13B]

I know 1 person who legitimately likes this game and, as far as me and mutual friends can tell, it's because he thinks games with female protagonists can do no wrong. To the point and being salty at Ghost of Tsushima for "Stealing the limelight" at time of release

[@krasmasov6852]

You need better friends.

[@RetroWrathX13B]

@@krasmasov6852 never said he was my friend

[@krasmasov6852]

@@RetroWrathX13B No I'm talking about your mutual friends who share your dumb take on this game

[@Jesus-hu4lq]

Too bad they could've given ellie the choice to finish off abby with two alternative endings and I guarentee you people would kill abby given the chance that's what Neil didn't want to make people feel bad but he should've given the player the choice

[@chloemarlowe3817]

To my understanding, it actually was going to be a choice you could make at the end: to kill or spare Abby. But from how I hear, after the leaks came out and everyone instantly hated her, Neil decided to remove the "Kill Abby" ending. What I heard could have been false so take what I said with a grain of salt.

[@eobardthawn6903]

@@chloemarlowe3817 It made sense in context to the situation. 95% of people would've killed her. But it would've gave the game more depth. The one thing I did enjoy about the game was the environments. They never ceased to amaze me, game to game. I love that scene with the broken city with moss and the Jiraffs. Still character development...

[@saladinho1st]

I've gone over and over how much I hate The Last of Us Part II, how defenders of it are only defending its agenda and not actually the game. I've watched tons of videos articulately critiquing it, and man, this might be the best one yet. You've pointed out things that I hadn't even thought of, and I already hate the game. You made me realize it's even worse than I thought. This is a fire video.

[@SR-og5ec]

There is nothing to defend. It's a great game. There is no agenda, and if you think there is that just shows you have a pathetic and problematic view of the world.

[@miserablepileofsecrets]

I mean, its fine to like a game you dont, but his review is fair tbh. btw stop using woke, agenda to describe the game. That just sounds dumb - no offense.

[@rolandsmalls8886]

@@SR-og5ec not like 4 U.

[@rolandsmalls8886]

@@miserablepileofsecrets no this review was spot on no like 4 U

[@miserablepileofsecrets]

@@rolandsmalls8886 That is exactly what I said, read twice before punishing me from like 4 me :( oh no, I cant live without them

[@blckorb6322]

The BIGGEST gripe I still have with this game was how it just deleted characters. Like remember the Asian dude? He had so much character, I liked the whole way we played through like half the game with him then we find out the baby is his, all that good stuff, then boom Abby comes in and just kills him. Just like that. I really didn’t like that. And the same shit happened with Joel too. There was many places where I was just like “did they really have to do this?”

[@krasmasov6852]

Death is sudden and uncerimonious in the world of The Last of Us. That was established in the first game.

[@blckorb6322]

@@krasmasov6852 ok but the keyword is HOW. When sam and Henry died. That shit hit hard. Henry had to kill his little brother, and with that his purpose for living. So he took his own life. It happened so fast yet it was meaningful. We were just as shocked as Joel and Ellie were seeing what just happened. But here, Abby shows up, and just kills him and that’s just that.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@blckorb6322 No, that's not just that. Joel's death is literally the most meaningful death in the entire series. It's the inciting event for Part 2.

[@blckorb6322]

@@krasmasov6852 inciting? You need to explain that because his death wasn’t the problem it was HOW HE DIED. In fact the main reason people even wanted to get the game was because in the trailers Joel was gonna be rocking with Ellie again and that got people hyped. Then boom the game comes out and well he gets killed and has no significant role in the story other than to just give the plot some push. Legit the best scenes in the game are the flashbacks we have with Joel. I’m not discounting your opinion, but you gotta explain

[@krasmasov6852]

@@blckorb6322 Does that need to be explained? It's not a matter of opinion. It did literally incite the events of Part 2. Joel's death is why Ellie went to Seattle, and it's why Abby looked out for Lev. No significant role in the story? What?! He's the driving force of the story. Everything can be traced back to what he did in the hospital. Ellie's entire emotional arc revolves around how she's dealing with her feelings towards him. He was the focus of Abby's obsession for years.

[@officercat7907]

Finally found a review that nails EXACTLY how I felt about Factions II not being in the game, the characters being weak as hell, and the plot that makes no sense. I also like how you mention so many nitpicks that most completely glossed over, like Abby's portion halting the pacing or the flashbacks ruining repeat playthroughs. The only thing I thought was wrong was when you said you can't shoot people on horseback. There's this one, very scripted segment in Abby's campaign where you shoot other Seraphites whilst she and Lev ride one. (Granted, she should NOT be able to ride a horse. It wasn't like in Ellie's conversation with Joel in the first game, at Tommy's settlement, where she specifically mentioned that Winston from FEDRA taught her and you see it actually happen in the American Dreams comic).

[@Bathezid]

I could listen to you go on about this shit for hours, man. Excellent points and refutations to common defenses I remember seeing about this game around release. I felt really disgusted how so many people were defending this game and attacking critics based on its supposed diversity, despite it doing a terrible job of representing frankly the whole cast of characters. I honestly did not care too much for TLOU1 back when it was first released, but 2 made me appreciate it a lot more I think. Appreciate a much better story, with characters that had a much better portrayal before being ruined by some kind of creative writing hack's "vision." Never really understood why a sequel needed to happen in the first place, but I guess we can all see how that turned out.

[@juju0K_]

I actually liked the game but it’s no where near as goo as the first 💯

[@hannahparker888]

i just don’t think an action video game is the best media to portray a “violence isn’t the answer” theme. also considering how gory and gruesome the combat is and how many npcs you kill just makes the whole thing contradictory

[@krasmasov6852]

Violence is sometimes necessary to survive. It's violence for other reasons that's a problem. Also, you seem to be suggesting that everything you're asked to do in the game must necessarily be endorsed by the game, and that's a weird position to take.

[@hannahparker888]

@@krasmasov6852 i know that it’s to survive in the game but why does ellie not feel remorse for any of the npcs she kills but she spares abby, someone who literally killed her friend and tortured her father figure? it just doesn’t make sense and is lazy writing

[@krasmasov6852]

@@hannahparker888 Because she killed those npcs to survive while she was murdering Abby for a different reason. How does that not make sense? How is that lazy at all? And more to the point, how do you know she doesn't feel remorse for them? We just know that it's not to a great enough degree to stop her from continuing on.

[@kelp7060]

@@krasmasov6852 How do you not understand what he saying? You don't make any sense, mate. She literally slaughters through wave after wave of random people, killing in some of the most gruesome ways, but when you get to Abby you spare her at the last second because of flashback that would've pissed me off even more. It's a fuckin' insulting joke. By letting her go she made all the sacrifices (and our time) for fucking nothing. I was laughing my ass off when she got upset after noticing the woman was pregnant because you'd have to be a complete moron to not realise you've probably have done this already many times before, as well as leaving possibly many kids parent-less getting there.

[@spadesofpaintstudios1719]

Major problem of the game is they basically retcon parts of the first game for the 2nd game to even make sense, Joel may have murdered people but ultimately when you see the story and why he did what he did it was needed for Ellie to live. Hell Joel was that much more of a good man when he and his brother saved Abby just for her to be like ehh i'll kill him anyway, Logically I don't think Abby would of even killed Joel right away. Ellie was essentially turned into a psycho to look like a villain and make Abby look righteous, that's what bother me with this game because ultimately they destroyed their own story to make it work. Abby would have been interesting if she wasn't just evil and the only thing you can even like about her is Sara and lev who eventually get screwed over anyway. Then she got all of her friends offed anyway, Dina would of been a better character if she wasn't just the pregnant girl and jessie had so much potential but ultimately he didn't get to really get to be a actual character and then they don't even talked about how he died. I enjoyed your video because it calls a lot about the bs in the game, it would have been different if we didn't play the events but ultimately like I said they had to delete or change parts for this games narrative to work.

[@ninjadudezack]

Worst part is when you say you dislike TLOU2, you always get the inevitable “you’re *insert group here*-phobic!!1!1”

[@ProdLucio]

what

[@Truck_Kun_Driver]

My friend called that Asian dude "Sperm donor dude" and I agree 100%

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

Your friend wouldn’t be the only person to echo that sentiment either. Lol.

[@ShiffDawgMan]

Relating to what you said about Abbie (or however you spell it) embracing being an antagonist, a good example of that is Micah Bell from RDR2. He is one of the most hated/loved villains ever because he is just such a genuine POS, but that's what's great about his character, he owns it. Rockstar never tries to make him anything besides what he is- a villain. And despite how much I "hated" him at the end, I still respected him as an antagonist.

[@string55]

I will admit, I have a bias in favor of the first game and it's for a deeply personal reason. But even without that bias I still dislike this game. And it's even more frustrating because some of the ideas here can work, but they failed it miserably. I remember watching my best friend play this game and they quit after finding out they had to play as Abby again, it just wasn't worth it anymore. We were both so excited and hyped for the sequel that they preordered it and I can't imagine the regret they felt once we realized just how bad this story was playing out. The only highlights had to be the flashbacks with Joel, that's it. I'll gladly take a dlc where we do nothing but see Ellie's and Joel's relationship strengthen as father and daughter.

[@string55]

Are you okay? Do you need a shoulder to cry on? Listen if you're gonna reply trying to spread some negativity like this lemme counter it with some positivity here. Who hurt you and how can I make it better?

[@robogreek3157]

@@string55 dude.... Actually. I should ask you this question. This is a person disapointed by a form of entertainment. I was disapointed by one of Lnkn parks albums ( living things) doesnt mean we cry about it. You all get super defensive because your another naughty dog simp that knows this game is just WOKE GARBAGE and you have nothing to argue about. 😆 what a pathetic dumbass

[@SnagTheRabbit]

Abby doesn't regret or have any remorse for what she did to Joel, so why should Ellie (and the audience) have any remorse for Abby?

[@krasmasov6852]

WHAT? Abby's entire arc in Part 2 is about dealing with her guilt over what she did to Joel. Did you play the game at all?

[@jacobgonzalez2002]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@krasmasov6852Yeah Abby sure did feel bad huh? Is that why she was gonna kill Dina who was pregnant and just shot Jesse point blank?!?!?

[@krasmasov6852]

@@jacobgonzalez2002 You mean the people who she thought were responsible for the deaths of her pregnant friend and the man she was in love with?

[@jacobgonzalez2002]

@@krasmasov6852 Ellie didn’t know she was pregnant though and her friends literally tried to keep killing Ellie when she told them numerous times that she would let them go oh yeah not to mention she got Owen to cheat on her pregnant girlfriend

[@krasmasov6852]

@@jacobgonzalez2002 How would Abby know that?

[@yung_wise5861]

I completely forgot that he left a family to possibly die before he even knew what was going on in the first game; but yeah he’s totally become a more trustworthy person in the middle of it all 🙄

[@dylancross1039]

It wasn't leaving a family to die if you listen to the dialogue. "They have a kid, Joel!" "So do we." Joel's choice is the sensible one. Worrying about your own in a situation where shit hits the fan isn't a bad thing to do.

[@theinsurance2450]

Lol hahaha your statement is contradicting. How can he willing let people to their deaths if he doesn't understand what is really going on? He have to know for a fact they were going to die which means he will have to fully understand what going on. You woke people try so hard to justify your blind love for this game but you can't lol.

[@yung_wise5861]

@@theinsurance2450 “possibly die” since Joel was just attacked by a psycho and the whole city is going insane

[@theinsurance2450]

@@yung_wise5861 yes the whole city is going insane. Joel was just attack. Joel also said people are sick. So let's invite strangers in my car with my family. It not like those people could attack us too in the car or get us sick too. As far as Joel knows this sh*t could be air born. Why take that chance especially with your kid in the car. You wouldn't last ten seconds in a zombie apocalypse.

[@yung_wise5861]

@@theinsurance2450 I agree that he shouldn’t let anyone into the car? I never said I didn’t. The original post is sarcastic which is why there’s an eyeroll emoji

[@ethanveda1271]

Not going to lie, I at least had fun with the combat but the story is pretty garbage. You want a better Revenge story, watch Death Sentence. That movie shows the protagonists actions as a negative progressive circle. That movie shows how bad revenge is especially to someone who has no clue of what they're doing and shows remorse but also what revenge cost them. And in all honesty, I think this game is partially bad because of Uncharted 4. Don't get me wrong I love Uncharted 4. I do not hate it at all. I saw an article about the game that at the end of it, Nathan's kid was originally supposed to be a boy but someone told the director all he does is make male characters for his games. So that's why he changed Nathan's kid to a girl. So maybe, that's why there's so much awful strong female character writing.

[@carltonpowell5313]

It’s just an issue of respect Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes Had the exact same issues, however it was to a lesser degree When making a follow up respect is important And tell a story that’s worth telling Instead of throwing so much talent at a project that is… uh not well thought out Be respectful to the source

[@OGJohnMarston]

Jesse and Yara were the coolest new characters and they got fucking merc'd and the fact the marketing literally lied and made it look like we were avenging Dina potentially with the help of Joel, which would be a way more fire game, is fucking aids

[@nandax4936]

I don't agree with the last part but JESSE omg they did my boy so dirty 😭 The fã that this game is so frustratingly indulgent to abby after she murdered someone who did absolutely nothing wrong And Yara dying after we spent 2 hours on a quest to save her like I can't

[@HechiOkami]

It's not fake marketing..do you really think they wanted to spoil us that Joel died? They wanted that shock moment and that's why they "lied" with joel

[@ElementVoidX]

it was fucking funny, Jesse got killed so hard that he got deleted from the universe, he is never mentioned after at all.

[@ElementVoidX]

@@HechiOkami oh it was false marketing, they could have done it differently without showing Joel, but they knew people would be asking why he was not there, so they decided to deceive their fans, so they would buy the turd they had produced.

[@supereldinho]

Regarding the scene where Ellie lets Abby live because she saw a flashback of Joel; ever seen the movie Se7en? Near the climax, Brad Pitt's character finds out that the serial killer he was after had killed his pregnant wife that same morning, which naturally sent him spiraling into a nervous breakdown. Even after Morgan Freeman's character repeatedly tried to talk him out of it, including telling him that getting killed by him is what the bad guy wants, he's still unsure what to do with himself. Even after being taunted by the bad guy, you know what truly sets him off in the end? A brief flash of his wife's face that caused him to unload his entire gun into the bad guy. This is a perfectly natural and human reaction and absolutely nobody who has a wife or kid could blame the guy for snapping. Meanwhile, Ellie sees a flashback of Joel and has that whole "is this was they would've wanted" epiphany that causes her to stop, even though at that point Abby had effectively ruined Ellie's life and had just bitten off Ellie's fingers, leaving her unable to play the guitar -- which was the last thing Joel taught her, meaning Abby effectively erased all traces of Joel from the world -- which would've sent any sane person into a frenzy and have them claw Abby's throat out instead of drowning her to death. Worst of all, in a complete subversion of the trope, Joel would've very likely encouraged Ellie to kill Abby due to how pragmatic he often was, but Neil Cuckmann was clearly far too busy mentally masturbating to his own magnum opus to look up how people actually function.

[@edhodgson6725]

This game disappointed me to a level I hadn’t previously experienced. It was a lame playthrough on its own, but the fact that it followed the epic that was Part 1, sunk it to a new level of bad. And holy shit, am I sick of being lectured by games. STFU with your “message”, and entertain me. That’s what I paid for.

[@JjaureguiX3]

This video is so good! You're such a compelling writer and I am so drawn in to hear ur opinion the entire time

[@rahimouahmed3354]

not to mention that druckman is a massive narcisist,i cant believe how many people ignore the fact that he called himself a "misunderstood genius" in that card collection ellie has,no wonder the story is so bad if the writer himself thinks like this of himself

[@crazyinsane500]

Well that's the problem: People don't know that aspect of Neil Druckmann. He's literally said in interviews that revenge plots don't work in the setting of The Last of Us, and people *genuinely* cannot mentally comprehend the author himself admitting the story makes no sense. I'm serious, try it, next time you see someone say "Oh, it's so profound and smart" point that out and they *can not acknowledge it.*

[@gaia7240]

@@crazyinsane500 do you know if I can find the video where he said that?

[@crazyinsane500]

@@gaia7240 Most of them are interviews with gaming publications. Any time he talked about his "Tess hunts Joel" idea he mentions that's why it was scrapped. If you want a *video* of him saying that, that'd be in the Grounded 1 documentary.

[@gaia7240]

@@crazyinsane500 thank you👍

[@_.-_Crimpy-_..-.]

The writing in this game still truly baffles me. What was he thinking?

[@crazyinsane500]

Specifically? To paraphrase Neil Druckmann's thoughts: "Okay, so, nobody wants to buy Abby's Adventures, I learned my lesson from A Second Chance At Sarah. I know! I'll take my rejected Last of Us plot and combine it with Abby's Adventures. That way it'll sell and I'll finally be a big boy writer!" And now he's working on the Last of Us TV show, like the big boy writer he thinks he is.

[@krasmasov6852]

@@crazyinsane500 Thanks for introducing me to A Second Chance At Sarah. It was really good.

[@genox3636]

So many great points, but you scored the knockout with Joel's early death, it kills the momentum in a big way with how lazy it is. It's lazy enough to know just what they're doing with their narrative. Great vid.

[@sharkbyte1565]

I find it funny that people say that Joel wouldn't want Ellie to kill Abby When in the first game he shot Marlin when she was bleeding and lying on the ground after trying to kill both of them stating that "you'd just come back for her" (something Abby could learn from) he even says in the flashback that "he would do it all over again" meaning he doesnt regret it Jesus WHY DO PEOPLE SAY THIS GAME IS ONE OF THE BEST OUT THAT EVEN GOING AS FAR AS TO COMPARE IT TO RDR 2 AND THE WITCHER 3 THIS HAS THE WRITING ON PAR WITH RISE OF SKYWALKER

[@Betroid]

The writers took a shit on the first game to drive the second game

[@krasmasov6852]

How? What an insane comment.

[@Betroid]

@@krasmasov6852 they made joel a literal moron to drive the plot of this game

[@Badookum]

@@krasmasov6852 you delusional lol

[@krasmasov6852]

@@Badookum How?

[@darkninja9135]

Funny joke.

[@JohnSmith-wh2ob]

Why didn’t Joel ever talk to Ellie defending his side? Also why didn’t Ellie and Abby ever talk especially the first scene where she says joel saved me when Abby should’ve then said Joel killed my dad then they talk at gunpoint. Like WTF

[@krasmasov6852]

He did. That's what the last flashback sequence was. Lol you expect Ellie and Abby to have a calm conversation considering the context?

[@JohnSmith-wh2ob]

@@krasmasov6852 I’d do it all over again isn’t a defense I’m talking tell her why he did it then say I’d do it all over again

[@krasmasov6852]

@@JohnSmith-wh2ob She already knows why he did it.

[@ACE_1923]

Joel dying isn’t an issue like you said I bought this game said “one last ride” when I got on the horse as joel then when I saw him die within what? the first 3 hours I wasn’t even sad I was just confused I forced myself to play the game to the end and I reflected on Joel’s death my thoughts were is your story so bad it requires you to kill off a beloved character to basically force the player to feel obligated to play the game and get revenge then in the end you don’t even get revenge! “AARE ARE YOU OOUTTA YA MINND!”