Open vs Closed Relationships in the Gay Community

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Have you ever been in an open relationship? Are you in a monogamous relationship? Let us know in the comments 🔽🔽

[@YeahItsJhon]

@@GayMenGoingDeeper The gay community’s obsession with open relationship is disturbing. Instead of focusing on healing from our traumas, we use this to escape and partake in giving more toxicity in this dying community. It sucks but it’s the truth.

[@u216]

Open relationship makes people feel jealous. Some people can separate sex and love. But I cannot.

[@WellismoCoaching]

I'm glad you have that awareness. Personally, I do not feel jealousy with respect to sex because I can separate the act of sex from the feeling of love. But as we said here, it's really about knowing yourself and your own needs.

[@dougfoster445]

@@WellismoCoachinghow would u feel if ur partner suddenly started to fall in love with one of his partners? Would u be jealous or would u still be ok with it?

[@O-haven91]

with time I think you cant help falling for anyone, Open just breeds the fear of losing someone to someone else, which is scary. But at the end of the day, if he or she is the one that best fits you and you them, that should mean more, Me personally, I believe there is someone more compatible with you than who you are with, somewhere in this world. If you or the other persons happens to find them.... then idk isn't more love to want them to be happy vs keeping them for yourself.

[@dylankennedy6020]

For me its not jealousy its competition. I have ran through half of Halifax trying to win a competition that didn't exist

[@electricblue2920]

I think it's crazy that people can separate the two. The same reason grape is worse than assault. It's not just an physical activity unless you're a psychopath and I mean that literally

[@teams3345]

Together for 32 years never open. Totally attached and grateful of it.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Beautiful! Congrats 💖

[@GlennWD]

Congratulations & Well Done.

[@okorochukwunonso2563]

beautiful

[@mle6501]

THANK YOU! This is because you understand love.

[@mathonitorke6764]

50% of people cheat. Either you cheated, or your partner has.

[@ted1091]

One thing always missing in these discussions is whether this is a symptom of "nothing is ever enough " - which is what really defines American culture. More, more, more. Bigger and flashier everything. Bigger cars (Hummers even), Bigger houses (10 rooms aren't enough for 2 people), 3 or 4 homes, super-sized fast food, and on and on. Nothing is ever enough in the US. Isn't that part of what's being communicated by open relationships? That you or your partner aren't enough? I think that a big part of being in a fulfilling relationship is making your partner feel like he's enough (and then some). I get how it works for some people. But I think the "nothing is ever enough " syndrome needs to be examined.

[@mattlandsiedel]

I couldn’t agree more. It’s the egos desire to seek and seek and never be satiated. Seeking outside ourselves for completion or happiness will always lead to more seeking and ultimately suffering

[@petitflowr275]

Completely agreed and lacked more of these types of topics being addressed

[@thomasscottwilliams6672]

This is not an American only thing, in London it is prevalent and in Barcelona it is more open as the majority are very sexually explorative, so it is a global definitely city wise.

[@duppyshuman]

More like indecisive.

[@Dndstories]

In a monogamous relationship, and now we’re engaged! I knew from a young age I wanted that for myself and I never settled for men who didn’t share the same core values as I did. It was a long wait but I found the one! 🥰

[@douwebeerda]

I have been in a polyamorous relationship for 15 years so far. It can be a lot of work but I think it is worth it and it fits me. I like how each of you shares their own viewpoints on these matters. Good to have these conversations in the gay community.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you so much for you kind thoughts!🤩

[@giauchiha90]

Ok so this was more of an agreement on open relationship rather than a discussion. Sounds like most of the panel was onboard with polyamory. Would have preferred if there was a person who didn't fall in the spectrum of poly or any shade of that. Definitely one sided in my opinion.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

We are 4 unique individuals who just happened to have similar outlooks. Keep in mind 2 out of the 4 have never been in open relationships and Calan said it wasn't on his list of things to do but that it's important to keep an open mind about all types of relationships. Understanding a concept isn't the same as agreeing with or wanting to do it. We try to keep out minds open here :)

[@charlesbeloved7951]

Exactly they’re all s luts.

[@Sneakydough]

I felt the same vibe when i listened to it. It felt like they were under indirect peer pressure to be in that bandwagon lol

[@blakjaxx]

Just discovered this channel. I'm currently in a monagamous relationship, but before that for about 10 years I had similar to what Matt was talking about. I had about 4 regular guys (separately) that I had relationships with which I enjoyed. For me it was beyond fuckbuddy or friends with benefits. I loved the sex, the intimacy, the conversation, just the hanging out of it

[@adambathon]

Being in a committed relationship also doesn’t mean you’re trying to control the person you enter into the relationship based on agreements. I perceive Calan is romanticizing an idea of open relationships as he openly disclose that he’s never even been in one so I’m not sure why his commentary is completely relevant besides expressing curiosity but he also has a tendency to be very preachy.

[@brentduanefoster]

I hear the same logic for people wanting to open their relationships, and it is so one-sided. No, you won’t stop thinking other men are attractive, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a necessity for you to act on it. Yes, 50% of marriages end up in divorce, but it’s not always because of infidelity. Also, why don’t we focus on the 50% of marriages that survive? For monogamy to work, it takes a lot of self-control and the willingness to sacrifice. Two things we don’t see too much of these days. Also, the dynamic of happiness between open and monogamous relationships, is so subjective it’s not even funny. Not EVERY open relationship is as happy as some might suggest. This definitely comes off judgey, I know, but we haven’t looked at this subject as thoroughly as we should.

[@WellismoCoaching]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic, these are helpful insights and I do agree all relationships take work and one doesn't guarantee more 'success' over another. We addressed non-monogamy specifically in future episodes; I think you'd appreciate. I don't think I can share the link here, but there are two in particular. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXmyYZmmgNGfZ7M and kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHWXopyVmqiXoc0

[@ted1091]

Totally agree. We'll said

[@Sneakydough]

Well said I am very disappointed when i heard them say "it's not real"

[@that1monk]

i would love to be in a committed, closed relationship. having not found one, i have chosen celibacy. celibacy is definitely, for sure, not for everyone. ❤🏳‍🌈

[@molipaul]

My situation is very similar. I went back to celibacy about 20 years ago. It hasn’t been perfect, but better than the alternatives…for me. Take care, monk. Nice to hear I’m not alone.

[@jfish032]

Wow, respect! Just curious on what your libido level is like

[@d11j09l92]

I’m gay and have been single my entire life but constantly approached by couples wanting to make me the third. No thanks. My partner is out there and time will tell. I won’t ever compromise my values due to people who can’t handle what they already have. I respect those who are open, but every time has been an imbalance of attractions and jealousy in the existing relationship. I know healthy polyamory exists in the world. Much respect to you all. ❤️🏳️‍🌈❤

[@charlesbeloved7951]

Open relationships are a flaming hot example of human avarice: you want to have it all. I have yet to meet an open relationship that hasn’t ended up in breakup or divorce (for all of you trying to argue that opening the relationship is what saves your relationship… I mean how sad)… how about the growth and learning that can be achieved from focusing all of your energy and desire on one person? Has anyone ever thought of that?

[@joshuag.4873]

Bingo… 👍🏼

[@Relationships-ls5fg]

Why does desire have to be a limited resource?

[@dylankennedy6020]

Because partnership isn't just desire. Its trust and commitment. Thats the foundation the house is built on. Desire is the shovel that originally breaks ground. If you can't be trusted to not give into base desires, the foundation is cracked.

[@dylankennedy6020]

Because shit, sometimes I have a desire to take the boat out and rip lines. I don't do that though because I am an adult who understands the concept of consequences.

[@danielbucher9744]

God I new I shouldn’t have watched this video. I left one of your guys video feeling so good and now feeling so bad after seeing this video. I hate how monogamy is demonized so much and open or polyamorous relationships are the Solution to your problems. I know plenty of people who’s lives were really ruined buy the pear pressure to not have monogamous relationship. I don’t understand why when there is a problem in monogamous relationships that gay guys are so quick to blam it but then when there is a problem with polygamous relationships or open once’s the problem wasn’t the idea rather it was you. There is a Double standard there . I personally think that if our Community was truly healthy we would see a roughly even amount of all three and even a fourth category of people who don’t want a relationship at all. Not like what we are seeing now where so many are pushed into doing things because they feel like if they don’t then they will be labeled as not mature , desirable , or somehow hating themselves because they want a monogamous relationship. I wish there had been someone here who could have expressed those feelings and there own story.

[@CalanBreckon]

Hey Daniel, thanks for your honesty here. From my point of view is that we aren’t labeling anyone way right or wrong, we are simply 4 guys just expressing our personal experiences. As I said in the video, I’ve only ever had monogamist relationships but I’m also a very open and curious person and don’t like to think of things as black or white so I leave room for the future to hold any possibility. There is always room for more conversation to be had but at the end of the way there is no right or wrong, simply different opinions, and I value yours just as much as I value others opinions because we each have our own that is right for us.

[@brentduanefoster]

Someone had to say it…

[@dylankennedy6020]

He's touching on a really interesting point that would have been cool to acknowledge though. Why is the root of all problems in a monogamous relationship the monogamy, while in a poly relationship all issues must stem from an individuals jealous tendencies? I can think of a billion negative personal traits I could use to stereotypically describe a poly person just the same. I think it so popular in the gay community because sometimes when we rely on other gay men for relationship advice,but they just want in our pants. Vent to your friend about your boyfriend and he somehow turns it into a way to proposition you for sex.

[@babyucon]

Open relationships are for those who lack the ability to stay committed. I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, you basically agree to sleaze. I rather stay single than to be in an open relationship.

[@dylankennedy6020]

I just wish the poly people would leave the monogamous people alone. I don't want to join your STD cult stop asking me!

[@Covet-to2wc]

As a psychologist I wouldn’t recommend open relationships. They are detrimental to the pair bonding process. However, to each their own.

[@dylankennedy6020]

Personally I would 100% rather just be cheated on. What happens for me is I lay there in my cold bed, knowing my partner is out with another guy, I either go out and find a warm bed myself or invite a guy over to make my bed feel warmer. Its almost like a twisted self rape where I consent to this guy, but I don't want to do it. I just feel compelled to have more knotches in my belt than my partner.

[@adambathon]

Maybe don’t “breathe into” something you do not enjoy like open relationships when you’re not into it. I’m not into heterosexual sex for myself so I don’t need to “breathe into it”…I don’t need to do it if it’s not for me or doesn’t work for my feelings.

[@dylankennedy6020]

Yeah don't ever put yourself in a situation that you need to 'breathe into'. Especially around sex and intimacy. Especially just because it makes you seem progressive and cool. If you don't respect your boundaries you don't respect yourself

[@sierramountainspirit]

I love Reno’s term and resonate with Monogamish. A lot of truama in my life comes from end to end years of singleness and only hookups and the myriad of rejections from seeking intimacy beyond sex. (Being 50+, geographically in a nature preserve, emotionally needy or yearning, and anxious means A very high rate of rejection [# of rejections / # of receptive engagements] ) And so I’m loving the idea of meeting someone who is a priority for me and visit versa and that priority would be supporting each others process of relating to each other our engagements. Avoidance trauma is also hyper prevalent in our gay society and I’m a threat to most men with what I bring to the table.

[@mikelo5046]

Good point. I have been on and off for open relationship with my husband for last 9 years. I am still uncomfortable about it. In my impression almost all people who are happy to practice open relationships are more physically attractive (young, pretty, well elbowed, richer, etc.). I want to hear from the other side: older, average or less good looking, etc.. Particularly from the older guys in the relationships. Think about this: a guy is 10 years older and his desires fade away more quickly than his partner. Is it more moral to open up relationship to fulfill his partner’s desires than staying in monogamy? Should he be condemned if he insists on closed one? Or if he wants to show his generosity and trust and love he agrees to open up, but how can he deal with the jealousy/competition constantly? Can their relationship survive after 100 times of communication?

[@moscoelucilfer5829]

Aside from my earlier, critical comment, I truly appreciate this channel having mature gay men going deeper on tough conversations! We truly need this in our community and I am about to start binge watching videos since this is my first exposure to the channel. 🙂

[@WellismoCoaching]

Thank you for the comments - both of them - there is a place for disagreement or constructive criticism. I hope you've been enjoying the other episodes on this topic and others

[@giorgostakousiis2163]

I get the sense from this conversation that we need to change and be more accepting of the idea of an open relationship. I don't feel this should be the goal, but from the conversation, I felt I am not mature enough or ready for this step. Why do I need to? This is what I don't understand. Also, could you make a video about your values (for a relationship) and how you chose the ones you have atm? But, I got to say, I really enjoy listening to your videos! Keep it up!

[@ted1091]

I don't think you need to accept an open relationship if you want to be in a monogamous one. That's the real problem here. The guys who want open relationships really dominate the conversation within Gay male culture. That's one reason why Gay men in monogamous relationships tend to keep to themselves - because they don't want to be part of mainstream Gay culture where nonmonogamy prevails. There are lots of monogamous Gay male couples out there. If that's what you want for yourself, don't settle.

[@dylankennedy6020]

I think that the whole 'open relationship' thing is bullshit. Frankly a relationship is work but not that much work. Maybe if people experienced in open relationships are 'always challenging their jealous tendencies' is it possible that we are evolutionarily designed to pair bond? Like if something doesn't feel right, if you're constantly 'confronting things for growth', you're in a toxic relationship.

[@jamesmackey1238]

Letting jealousy and codependency melt away has been such a relief.

[@Manzartr]

I'm an 80 year old gay man. Single much of my life. I have many older gay male friends who have been in relationships for 50+ years... with lots of varieties of sexual behavior outside as well as within their relationship. It would be interesting to hear their experiences.

[@WellismoCoaching]

I'd enjoy picking their brains as well. Personally, I don't believe there's one right way to have a relationship. It's all about what works for both parties involved and they get to decide the terms of the relationship that works for them.

[@333999dsk]

I’ve done both. Now with the man I always wanted. We met when we were both in open relationships. Didn’t work out. Eventually ended both relationships. Then 8 yrs later we met again. And now monogamous. No interest in anything else. That said - we ended up together because of previous open relationships. And we both played around when we were younger. All I can say is - when it’s right it’s right. And you don’t need anyone else. Finding it is up to fate though.

[@izrag5788]

So Esoterically, Eloquently and beautifully explained like painting Mona Lisa..... So Ugly out here in these streets, promise you that

[@mradaChris]

Still have uncertainties with regards to having an open relationship or getting in the middle of one. I would feel that someone would be left out and upset. After being in 2 monogamous LTR's spanning 40 years, being polyamorous would be kind of hard too to deal with.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

It's certainly not for everyone - and that's totally okay. We did an entire episode on consensual non-monogamy if it's a topic that interests you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXmyYZmmgNGfZ7M

[@mradaChris]

@@GayMenGoingDeeper i have been having mixed feelings about some of your videos. I see it as a ypung man's approach to what it means to being gay today. I am twice your age and single. I get constant rejection because i am not young, cute, athletic, etc. Today's morals seem to be incongruous to me. I have pretty much given up on finding someone because i dont like feeling i am good for sloppy seconds or an afterthought. I am a great person to be with. I have been victimized in one way or another by men my whole adult life. I really dont know why i qould want to subject myself to it but then i still have needs. Never get what i need it seems.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

@@mradaChris Thanks for the feedback, and you're right, we don't have the perspective of people twice our age. Check out some of our interviews where we have men share other perspectives such as this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4fQc3awjt5-Zpo. As always, we recommend checking out the FB group where you will definitely find and hear from men of all ages. facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood

[@wakeupscreaming9883]

If you need to be in an open relationship, then don't call it a relationship, just call it a "F buddy" situation/roommates...whatever. That's all it is, and all it ever will be. People seem to want their romantic dependency needs met, but want their cake and eat it to. That's selfish, and people like that shouldn't be put on a pedestal.

[@WellismoCoaching]

Thanks for your comment. That's one way of looking at it and I'm sure many would agree. For me: if I put in the time and effort to make a delicious cake, I will eat it too. And I'll savour every last taste 🎂👅 .... but that's my opinion 😊

[@wakeupscreaming9883]

@@WellismoCoaching Yeah, I didn't watch the video, cuz I didn't care to. But if you're one of the people advocating for open-relationships, great, go to town. Just don't selfishly try to redefine what a relationship is, and impose your definition onto other people. You wouldn't know what a relationship is, even if it spooged in your face.

[@WellismoCoaching]

@@wakeupscreaming9883 Yes, I can tell you didn't watch it. I advocate only for what is aligned for the individuals within the relationship. I agree: no one should try to impose any definitions onto others. Happy hunting. I've got some splooge to go wipe off my face 🤭

[@serenityq26]

so true. and the excuses they make are so illogical. "when we found out we were both bottoms it was too late, we were already in love"........huh? that sounds like a first date conversation but ok "we are both white but i like black men and he likes latinos" translation yall should have never went out in the first place and are just together for the credit and appearances aka white privilege. "no one would want me. im fat and old" as he says this to the guy who clearly wants him and asked him hence why we are together in your bed right now......that was all the tomfoolery from a guy who was in an open relationship yet LIED and said he was single with a roommate. yall all need buddha cause jesus has failed you all!

[@robertrainford6754]

Let’s not forget aids to. Apparently nobody learned from the 80s and 90s.

[@PatrickMarano]

Wow guys! We are on the same page. I just covered Open Relationships on my KZbin channel and my recent FB Live! Love the discussion!

[@ArRechouKreiz]

Yall's conversation is very interesting. Thank yall for sharing

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thanks for watching!

[@moscoelucilfer5829]

It's interesting to hear how each guy came to their conclusions. I do believe that everyone has their own truth on how life should operate. However, I have some disagreements with a couple statements I heard. Near the end, the bottom left guy mentioned something like "act on what is within you or else it will destroy you." That, to me, is a dangerous mindset. Open relationships, at the end of the day, are sexual desires. Giving into every single temptation of lust can put you and your partner in bad situations because the man is not thinking clearly. The top left guy is saying his ego is telling him to let go of controlling another person. I don't know how to feel about that. The point of relationships that eventually lead to families is that two people compromise some of their freedoms for the larger goals of security into old age and functional families. I understand trying to let go of controlling desires, but there should be nothing wrong with an expectation of a man honoring his word of fidelity. Fidelity leads to security, safety, and success of the family. I'm so worried about my prospects of love at 28 years old because it seems like all gays just want constant sex. It's scary...

[@WellismoCoaching]

Thanks for the comment Moscoe, much appreciated. My two cents is that yes, there's a lot of sexual desire out there AND also there's many guys who are looking for connection, something long term, and even just a friendship. Your perception of the gay community will be skewed depending on where/how you're interacting with gay men. For example, if your only interactions with gay men are on Grindr, then yes it will seem like sex is the only thing. If you're not already in the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group, check that out. Lots of guys there who are into personal development and MORE than just sex.

[@moscoelucilfer5829]

@@WellismoCoaching Thanks for the reply. I'll check that group out. 🙂

[@psremington]

Very well said!

[@Kingdomplains]

If you have an open relationship: good. I won't be a part of an open relationship: good The only discrepancy is: some guys might feel obligated to continue a relationship that starts with or opens eventually... and one stays with the other based on financial reasons. Can we talk about this?

[@Scar-jg4bn]

This comment section echoes the majority of gay men; we want an intimate monogamous relationship with someone and to build a life together. There's a small but loud group of gay men who are also typically into cruising and bathhouses who advocate for open relationships. The first story about getting an STD on day one of being open isn't surprising at all. Interesting talk, but wanting stability and commitment is healthy and not about control or insecurity. Thanks for your perspectives.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for sharing your perspective

[@ted1091]

@@Scar-jg4bn The research actually shows that a half of Gay men want monogamy and half want open relationships. The key is to choose from the right half for you. It won't work if you're from different camps.

[@MarioLanzas.]

I think open relationships only honestly work in a very limited number of couples. What I see most of the time is couples that are open because they feel it's the new utopia, like it's the new ideal relationship to have.. practical: you have the good things of having a partner, but also the lifestyle of a sexy single fuckerboy... but that's on paper only. Monogamy doesn't work for many people, that's clear. But let's keep in mind that open relationships and polyamory aren't either a perfect recipe for everyone. It depends on so many things...

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

We covered this more in this episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXmyYZmmgNGfZ7M

[@philipzanoni]

I'm in love with my boyfriend of over 4 years. I could never feel comfortable knowing that awesome dick and body is pleasing someone else on the side. The physical aside now, when two pple bond, there is no room for another person in that equation. It's a stupid unnatural concept born of lust and disfunction. If you want multiple partners, you're simply not ready to settle down. Two pple engaging in relationship is special. And tremendously rewarding.. going into an open relationship is selfish, base, Lustful, insincere, and doomed .

[@YourHighwayInTheSky]

in a closed relationship and i think we're about to breakup and im terrified i'll never find anyone else who wants to be closed...

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

This can be such a painful process and we are sending love to you as you navigate it ❤️

[@mle6501]

What’s most important is that you stand your ground in what you want. If you break up, you break up. It’s not the end of life and is not the end of you. Love yourself first!

[@YourHighwayInTheSky]

thank you @@mle6501

[@peterwilliamskelhorn6675]

​@@GayMenGoingDeeperI'm gay and i have a big crush on my friend Liam and I'm always thinking of him I'd love him as a boyfriend

[@redbhdfw104]

There are plenty of gay men who want monogamy. Don’t settle.

[@peterebenau822]

This video was so helpful and introspective! Please continue making video s like this. My fiancé and I are beginning to explore opening up our relationship and unsure of which direction to go in.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Hey Peter! Glad you liked it! We have made MANY more since this video so make sure to subscribe and you'll be updated when we release new ones every Thursday! Thanks for the support!

[@michaelroper4237]

an 'open' relationship is NOT a relationship... relating is a binary concept hence 'relating-ship'... Taking something self-indulgent like polygamy and re-introducing it as a form of human devotion and intimacy - is actually pathetic and makes no sense whatsoever.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. Your entitled to see this however you see fit, no one is telling you how to feel about it.

[@michaelroper4237]

@@GayMenGoingDeeper well its just that the proper way to look at this should be 'committed relationship vs fucking around'; yet by corrupting language and using the term 'open *relationship*' (which carries a sense and resonance of virtue), people get to delude themselves that the actual self-indulgence involved in fucking around, is not there... when it IS and always WILL be

[@alanaban1840]

1 gay relationship is bad who decide what is right for ourselves / we do / wrong / our creator do and what do he say/ one man one woman / / one right way only/ our way lead to destruction it feel good on a moment but leads to distruction/ one big problem the tool was never design to be inserted into the ass / open open to disease

[@Capronice]

If a couple are into BDSM that involves group play I can see the need for an open relationship but individually looking for other sex partners sounds problematic for me.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Then do what’s right for you. We aren’t here to convince anyone to do anything, this is simply us expressing our own personal needs and experiences just like you expressed yours here :)

[@philipzanoni]

@@GayMenGoingDeeper defensive

[@Booboobanana]

I feel like most people I know is in open relation relationship. I hope this is not happening just because it's becoming a trend but to really assess each other if this is really what they "both" want and not just one person wants it really bad and another person just saying yes to it because he wants his partner to be happy. If one partner can be more desirable (to others) than the other partner and only one of them is only get the privilege of having that pleasure or fun with others...then the other partner would be left out. A friend told me that ...most open relationship...one person always gets hurt.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It's important that any relationship dynamic, including open relationships, is based on mutual consent and honest communication. Ensuring both partners are truly on board and comfortable is crucial to maintaining a healthy relationship.🥰

[@grayscar05]

Open relationships are weird and weak, not something to strive for, or something to brag about (easy to create). They are for very broken emotionally immature impetuous couples. Also i noticed open relationships usually heavily involve low self esteem and lack of respect which creates more problems not always obvious ... how can you respect someone who says it's ok to cheat on me with countless men ... way to be a doormat lol

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are careful not to project our personal beliefs as actual facts as beliefs are not facts so when we make a podcast episode we are careful to make sure that we are speaking from our personal bias and not a scientific fact or positioning it as such. We're glad you can come and share your personal beliefs with our community but be conscious to avoid shaming and projecting onto others. That doesn't help anyone heal when we do that

[@grayscar05]

@@GayMenGoingDeeper I'm not shaming or projecting at all. I'm not policing people's personal choice but I do feel there's a scientifically proven healthy way and unhealthy way to do relationships. Happy hunting everyone!

[@benmartinez1267]

@@grayscar05 please post links/info on the scientific studies you “feel” exist. Sounds fascinating. .

[@WellismoCoaching]

@@benmartinez1267 Right? I'd be interested as well 🔎 No one told me about these scientifically proven ways...

[@yonathor]

Come live in the Netherlands if you want to have an open relationship. 98% are open.

[@sacerdotedevesta3728]

Until the moment I saw the video I felt somewhat comfortable, but from 49:18 to the end I began to feel bad, surprised and quite judged. What I mean is: Why else or if wanting something monogamous is conceived as insecure attachment, control, fear and toxicity? Why else or if we have to exceed that limit of fear if I don't want to? Why fulfilling love in monogamy is equivalent to not being an evolved person or that I am constantly going to find myself with the same "mistakes"? I don't want to sound flippant about what I'm about to say, I respect your point of view a lot, but I felt those ideas were prejudiced and biased. You yourselves said that it is not about "right" or "wrong", but at the same time you associated and generalized so many ideas that you ended up (perhaps unconsciously) ascribing wrong things to monogamy or that it is wrong because monogamy is equivalent to everything negative (fear, not wanting to explore, etc.). In addition, you forgot a fundamental concept, the affective responsibility: if my partner knows that I’m distressed that he sleeps with others and does it anyway because "that is his right", he is trampling on my love for him and destroying me as a human being who needs security and not be hurt. With that message, infidelity is endorsed and don’t consider that the needs of the couple of qualities are their limits of what they do and do not want in a relationship. Honestly, I’m very disappointed as a simple gay guy who longs for a monogamous relationship and cannot find anyone who wants the same, because with what you mentioned I felt that if I’m not willing to accept something that I don’t want, that if I don't want to explore those kinds of situations or experiences with a partner, my love life will be full of heartbreak, lack of understanding and loneliness. Not all people want to push limits, evolve sexually and "leave their fears”, because not all fears and insecurities are false alarms, not all the limits that fear gives us are oppressive barriers, not all moments of exploration help us. I agree with the fact of not manipulating or coercing freedom, but if one member of the couple wants fidelity and a relationship of only two, then you should also have had the consideration to say that these negative elements aren’t exclusive to monogamy, that if someone doesn’t want to explore it doesn’t mean that they will find pure unhappiness with a partner or feelings will appear that will end up ruining the relationship, and that there are healthy and happy monogamous couples, or that it is okay to be monogamous and not force ourselves to do things that hurt a lot. It's these kinds of thoughts from non-monogamous people that make me hopeless and marginalized.

[@samsungs6lite95]

I solo agree with you. ,monogamy in gay is shamed. The gay community is the most toxic and intolerant community. When you want something traditional you are being shamed as internal homophobic. Can't stand this judgemental community.

[@paolocruz7917]

Open relationships sounds like you want the status and privilege of monogamy, but none of the responsibility.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

That's an interesting take!

[@Scar-jg4bn]

Bingo! 🎯

[@robertrainford6754]

They don’t. Open relationships are a excuse for a person to not grow up.

[@javidial]

I think you're 100% right. I respect people doing whatever they like as soon as they're happy. And also all the couples "I know" celebrate the social status and privilege of monogamy and behind the scene they disagree with those social status and instead act like they were single and tell everyone else that monogamy is not natural. So in my opinion, they want both, being married, children, family photos...and also act like they're single. All I can say is that if you have children, it's your responsibility to maintain a stable emotional home so those kids can grow without drama/trauma that many open relationship goes through (they most likely wont talk about the downsides). If you disagree with the traditional social status, don't live and create a traditional family. This doesn't mean that a couple can't spice up their sex life with some hookups during holidays or other ways if they both agree, but it's weird to me to see many couples here in LA being together in a social event while being in grindr looking for a nice emotional connection that includes a F. Most people I know (just my experience) would much rather have a friend that they can F on the side while being married than just a good friend without benefits, and in some cases they have 1-3 kids at home, and no matter how happy they look, once they get honest, there're always a lot of fights and unhappiness behind. So I guess that it might work for some, not for other, but a lot of them are just in a open relationship because they feel they have to.

[@TwinFalls88]

Reduced statistical risk of aquiring an STI = fewer partners. Fact !

[@naobe5]

I can't STAND being hit on by guys in a relationship! To me , they are selfish bas**rds who want their cake and eat it too!

[@carlorizzo827]

Thank U super interesting. I resigned from dating long ago, seemingly unable to pair bond. But found intimacy w/men in open relationships, 3 men, numerous encounters. They were good experiences. But terribly unbalanced, we could only meet when they would say so. Thennn... those relationships re-closed🤔If ever i try again, he's gotta be single ONLY

[@carlorizzo827]

P. S. Thank you Matt for: Shame to Self worth to Authenticity to Connection?was it. Thanks St Thomas teaching, alas soo true

[@atlantaguy6793]

Another phrase for "open relationship" ....... "roommates with benefits".

[@GD-ru7xr]

Been out for decades. Most relationships, regardless of the type, fail. I find being single is the best option. You can love someone and be single. Serial monogamy also works well.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

That's a valid perspective. It's interesting to hear your experience with relationships after being out for decades. Everyone's path is different, and finding what works best for you is important. Whether it's singlehood, serial monogamy, or something else entirely, happiness and fulfillment are key.🥰

[@enzomthethwa5861]

10:49 Matt, you just described polyamory. I have a primary partner and several secondary partners. All of which I share intimacy with on a romantic and sexual level.

[@mattlandsiedel]

Sounds like a lot of love ❤️

[@enzomthethwa5861]

@@mattlandsiedel Indeed it is, and I have a lot of love to give. ❤️

[@thomasscottwilliams6672]

I’ve had 3 closed relationships and each partner cheated, so I cannot contemplate an open one but what works for one as long as both partners are equally invested in their realist parameters

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for sharing your experience. It's completely understandable to feel that way given your past relationships. What matters most is finding a relationship dynamic that works for both partners and ensures mutual investment and respect. Everyone's journey is different, and it's important to honor what feels right for you.🥰

[@Garysgoodfinds]

It has to be the right timing for a couple...can be so much adventure and fun for the right emotional adjusted couple

[@peterd.1104]

Omg I’d love to be apart of conversation like this!

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

We host bi-weekly group chats about podcast episodes every other week! If you join our free facebook group we post the events and times there :) Join the free group here: facebook.com/groups/gaymensbrotherhood

[@serenityq26]

if its open, its not a relationship. definitions of words exist. lets use them

[@dylankennedy6020]

I mean, friendships are relationships. Accuaintenceships are relationships. Coworkers have relationships. Romantic relationships are not definitionally the only type of relationship. Its a vague term describing how two subjects interact in any way

[@fallenangelincolor]

Been with my husband for 13 years, married for 10 and our partner has been with us for 7 years. It works for us. I dont understand hate people have for polyamorous.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

It's wonderful that you've found a loving and fulfilling relationship structure that works for you. Love is love, and everyone deserves the right to find happiness in their own way.😍

[@dylankennedy6020]

I cant do open relationships at all. I know I'm a very competitive person and yeah it turns toxic as fuck. If you sleep with one guy, I will need to sleep with two guys. More if they're not as hot as my partners 1. This sort of dynamic has led me into some really really dark situations I would not have put myself in otherwise. I could do a sort of limited cuckoldry with severe boundaries, I don't care so much about the jealousy part but I have to commit to monogamy myself because I know what I'm like and I will end up doing things I don't want to. I get some people aren't the same as me, but growth is sometimed about not putting yourself in situations that are harmful for yourself.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

It's great that you're recognizing your own patterns and boundaries when it comes to relationships. It's important to be honest with yourself about what works for you and what doesn't. It sounds like you've learned a lot about yourself through your experiences, and that's a valuable lesson. Remember, it's okay to prioritize your own well-being and set boundaries that protect you.❤❤

[@leclercsyl]

Your discussion is interesting and makes one ask the question "What if I allowed myself or rather if I had allowed myself". Here, there is no regret, but only a simple curiosity. The subject would have probably interested me more 30 years ago. Obviously, I am a little older than you but I am still very young at heart. That said, with all due respect to your discussion, the question of the open couple will have been settled a long time ago: neither of us wanted it. I like the idea of ​​a deep commitment. I also like the idea that everything can exist as long as everything is done with respect. And respect begins with oneself. It is true that we are rather conventional. Life has allowed us to adopt 3 children internationally (Asia). I believe that this is no longer possible at the moment for a single man. My partner was the adopter while I adopted my partner's children once the third arrived. This was our big project as a couple. This took us completely elsewhere. Needless to say, we didn't have time to think about going elsewhere. And yes, it is important to live your experiences, sometimes to explore and give yourself permission to like or not like the experience. In fact, I allowed myself to explore a relationship with a man at the age of 26. I liked it and it confirmed to me that I had to take this path after my 4-year relationship with a woman. At 30, I met the man with whom I was going to undertake the greatest project of my life. In short, to each his own experiences! Probably the most important thing is self-respect, respect for the partner, communication and well-established boundaries. Here, right now, it's not something I'm drawn to, but I can see how some couples might be open to it. If both partners feel comfortable with that, why not, it's their business. I think we never do anything for nothing... probably to meet a certain need. But what need are we meeting? I have a few hypotheses, but this is precisely the subject I'd be more interested in hearing about. What makes us become an open couple or remain closed. I'm more interested in this subject than giving myself permission to...

[@plaguedoctor2k]

I realy enjoyed this convo, and at the end of the day, it depends to each person.

[@WellismoCoaching]

100% 👆🏼

[@zak7578]

I love these debates. Being in a different time zone (Europe) it is a bit complicated to participate. For me I will only accept monogamy. I often wonder if one partner agrees to an open relationship in a bid not to see the relationship end. If both are sleeping around it becomes a relationship of convenience. A fake one at best. How can there be real deep love or connection ? The odd affair OK but over time I feel an open relationship is playing with fire or tempting fate. He may fall in love with the other guys he's sleeping with. I´m too jealous to be OK with the whole thing.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

And that's the best thing about the human experience, we all have a different POV about it :) what works for some doesn't always work for others. The main thing is knowing what works for you and being true to yourself

[@serenityq26]

yep, just a fake love

[@joshuag.4873]

Why is the odd affair okay?

[@bladezone1]

Nice discussion a lot of truth was shared! Thank you

[@jubadiju]

I think there's a lot of understandable fear around open relationships and polyamory from a stability standpoint, as well as self image and esteem. From my experience with both, i would say that there are specific challenges that arise tending to multiple relationships, but it isn't that different to looking after your multiple relationships with family members, friends, work, land, etc. You will need to balance time, attention, needs, desires, etc., but we do this with those other relationships without comment. You don't say to someone about to have another child, "You can't commit! How could you possibly care for two children at the same time!" I get it when people say it's not the same, and i isn't, but i dont think it's that different either. Think about what is your actual concern. Is it that you think you won't be able to manage your time, or that you'll be abandoned, or you'll feel less self worth...? They're all valid. I'd just say that there are different strategies for addressing them, and they'll work for different people. ❤

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for sharing your insights and personal experience. Your perspective on managing multiple relationships and addressing specific challenges is very thoughtful. It's important to recognize and address our concerns, and finding strategies that work for us individually is key. We appreciate your contribution to the conversation!😍🤩

[@dylankennedy6020]

I also think that the people that have more niave views of open relationships kind of ignore the people that have been fucked up by these sorts of relationships. Its not about control, or jealousy. Its about not giving into the fear of missing out. Theres nothing that dude on grindr can give you your partner cant. You're literally just afraid to commit.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

@@dylankennedy6020 That's a really valid point. It's easy to romanticize open relationships, but it's important to remember that they're not always as idyllic as they're portrayed. Sometimes, the fear of missing out can lead to decisions we regret. It's important to be honest with ourselves about our motives and to prioritize our own well-being.🙂

[@tanksamuels3348]

I met an amazing couple at ptown. Two professional males in their fields. One of the guys was married with kids. So the relationship went from monogamy to polyamorous to open . One of them contracted HIV and gave it to the other. They invited me to join but I couldn’t do it. All three of my past relationships went from monogamy to they want to be open. Being in the open relationship is not for me. I’m just not wired like that. Sometime I hate myself for not trying it, but it’s not for me. And I don’t wanna start taking prep to add to my collection of other medication I’m taking. I’m not hating on the idea, but I have a few friends that didn’t work out for them. I’m not Hating on it. It’s just isn’t for me. So I’m by myself. It suck but it is what it is. Prep open the door for everyone to experience this kind of behavior. That’s why finding someone that’s into you and vice versa is so hard now. I’m new to your podcast. I appreciate what you guys are saying. Hopefully young gay guys will learn a lot from you guys.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It's important to recognize and honor what feels right for you in relationships, and it's okay if that differs from others' paths. Your honesty and self-awareness are admirable, and we're grateful to have you as a listener. We hope our podcast continues to offer insights and support to the LGBTQ+ community, and we're here to navigate these conversations together.🙏🏳‍🌈

[@noctis7707]

I feel like this video could easily be fodder for folks on the right end of the political spectrum as someone who's more center. That aside, I fully support the idea of being monogomish. As someone who's a bottom with GI issues where an STI may cause critical damage, I am biased towards monogomy. My last relationship was openish and made me realize that I'd need emotional exclusivity, whereas he desired deeper connection with others. However i would not have grown as a person unless i tested my own boundaries.

[@noctis7707]

What the top right guy said at approx min 43 said of what open means to people is fully spot on. And should be the primary take away from the video. As well as leaning into what you fear as a form of self exploration at approx min 52. Leaning into fear is a bootcamp in understanding the self and can give oneself their desired definition of open, communication, and commitment.

[@wizzwamf]

just found this channel brilliant , im learning a lot about me right now and i dont feel so lonely

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Welcome to the channel! We trust you’ll find plenty here for you to enjoy

[@reacting_to_stuff_]

Open relationships are shit show. Nobody lasts

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Open relationships aren't for everyone, but for some, they can work beautifully with the right communication and boundaries. 😊

[@KennyBlaine]

my ex brought up the idea of open poly relationship and eventually he got what he really wanted to have he knew he had plenty of options and need keep exploring them and figured im resposible part and he has kinky fun with good looking link ups or potientials....... needless to say i was replaced

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Sorry to hear this happened to you. That must have been really painful

[@KennyBlaine]

@@GayMenGoingDeeper its ok it happens i seen the signs and still tried to. and thank you fir checking up cause it was painful see him go on cause his lifestle was more important but been worse of i stayed where no longer perferred

[@dougfoster445]

U guys are all young. Wait til u hit ur 40s and 50s and start to realize that this whole “oh I want people to come and go in my life la Dee daaaa” goes away and u start to realize that people won’t be so willing to want someone who is 50 and not able to commit to a monogamous relationship. Everyone wants to party and have as much sex as possible when they’re young but all a sudden they decide to want to settle when they get old.

[@Mememememe2024]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Lucky-lh9js]

@7:35 which did not allow him to grow? - monogamy OR non-monogamy?

[@roryyoooo]

Open relationships are for people who cheat, without the consequences of disrespecting their partner. Its not healthy long term and does more emotional damage to both parties involved.

[@Johnnathun]

I was hoping this was not a one-sided conversation. It seemed to focus more on why open relationships DO work, and not explore why they actually don’t. Everyone is different, but personally felt it lacked a (balanced) opposing side to really explore the topic fully.

[@dropdead227]

Thus would have been more impactful if it was a 2 and 2 split of people advocating for benefits on both sides. Rather than everyone expressing a desire to be open.

[@curtbergeron703]

This need for open relationships is one of the reasons I wish I wasn’t gay. Any way you slice it an open relationship is an excuse for not putting forth the commitment and discipline to make a monogamous relationship work. Like others in these comments,I’ll happily remain single until someone who feels like I do comes along.

[@redbhdfw104]

A deep and lasting relationship requires more than sex. Especially a willingness to be honest and vulnerable.

[@rickjuarez57]

How these people are ok with sharing their partners with others is beyond me...

[@alexanderthomas6474]

Dumping your partner for accidentally getting gonorrhoea..? When you’re in an open relationship..? 😐

[@vidform]

An open relationship is like a fat person wanting to lose weight but wants to continue eating junk food every day and never exercise. You gotta put in the hard work to reach your goal. Gay men tend to be emotional and want everything to be fun without hard work or sacrifices. They want to be the proverbial "kid in a candy store." You need discipline to build a solid relationship. It might be helpful if gay men started paying attention to people like David Goggins and Jordan Peterson. Bringing extra people into your relationship seems to dilute the bond you have for your partner. Opening the relationship might mean you can no longer satisfy your man. Also, it's kind of awkward how gay men think of relationships as either "long-term" or "short-term." There's no such thing as a "long/short-term" relationship... only relationship. And it's REALLY ODD how some gay couples continue going to bars and clubs even when they are in a relationship. Why do gay men continue to surround themselves with outside temptation while in a relationship? It's like a fat person trying to lose weight while hanging out at the local ice cream parlor.

[@samsungs6lite95]

This video is so judgemental against monogamy. Why is monogamy about control or fear. People enter monogamous relationships willingly and no one should control anyone. Both are willing to be in a committed relationship. This is typical gay toxic shaming of other gays who want someone else other than flamboyant life style.

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

Hmm, interesting that's what you got out of this discussion. We think monogamy is wonderful.

[@samsungs6lite95]

@Gay Men Going Deeper Podcast it was very open minded until 49:18 it started to be judgemental and demeaning monogamous people. I have no issues or whatsoever people being poly, but I shouldn't feel I am judged for wanting monogamy. Everything he said about monogamous relationship is about controlling the partner. It is simply not true. Monogamous people aren't controlling anyone. The partner can leave any time or if they wanna be poly all of sudden they can, just don't force the monogamous people into a poly situation. Both parties enter a relationship willingly. What poly is having issue is when they want a mono to be poly then they started to say they are controlling. Mono isn't insecure neither. Just so much hate towards mono people after that time code.

[@JustinJohn-j4r]

Did anyone else almost spit out their coffee at the first sentence?!

[@annonymous1273]

Jesus, so glad I avoided all this wasted time; I knew what I wanted, focused on it, and have not looked back for decades 30 years with no need to complicate existence with floaters coming in and out of our stable life together There is no need for polygamy if you get your foundations right Like another commenters says below: open relationships are an excuse to avoid responsibility and growing up. Embrace maturity, it’s really not that hard or scary Kind regards

[@Jj-cf6yb]

I come from the school of as we get older ... we become more comfortable with ourselves..i would def be open up to 1 , but feel the the relationship should start closed , and then after a few years , maybe open it up... im a very non jealous person , and i come from a place of sex and love can be separated ..so i would be ok having a boyfriend who was an escort ... that would bother me .. but i understood different strokes for different folks ❤

[@willamfrasschaert]

Closed relationship, but we play together only

[@troygaspard6732]

That is why there are lovers and boyfriends. You don't have to chose one over the other, and both can be friends. I myself do not care what my boyfriend does on his own time, as long as it does not intrude into our time. Love is not controlling another's behavior.

[@WellismoCoaching]

I resonate with this, Troy. If my partner and I have a strong foundation and deep trust and clear boundaries that are respected, then have at it.

[@Eneaterapia]

Very interesting topic!

[@enzomthethwa5861]

Monogamy is compulsory in mainstream culture. Anyone who chooses to pursue nonmonogamy has to endure shame and harassment for deviating from the norm. Kinda like coming out of the closet. There is no right way or moral way to be in a relationship. What works for everyone will be different. Therefore--to the gay men commenting, can we _please_ *stop slut shaming* ? We're only tearing our gay community apart by perpetuating harmful values of patriarchy when we enforce monogamy upon everyone.

[@mattlandsiedel]

I think the idea is for us all to stay in our own lane and stop leading with fear. Why doesn’t it matter what relationship structure someone else prefers.

[@jamesmackey1238]

Wow, you can feel the jealousy and anxiety coming off of these comments.

[@petitflowr275]

I feel like this conversation lacks a lot of perspectives… all participants feel similar regarding these topics… I appreciate every opinion it just feels very biased and a constant cycle of confirmarion bias between the participants. Having said that I think the conversation was interesting but not very objective which I get because this isn’t a formal setting. I think all types of relationships work, however the lack of emotional maturity is something I have seen a lot on these discussions… gay men feel like they are always missing something or are never satisfied, would have love to have seen this discussed more as well as why do the participants think open relationships are more prevalent in the gay community?

[@alienzardsketter.9076]

No Open relationships never ,, a Open relation is the strongest way one can say to another,, Your not enough for me ...

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

We totally understand where you're coming from-open relationships aren't for everyone, and feeling fully valued and secure is so important in any partnership.💕

[@mathonitorke6764]

50% of people cheat. Either you cheated, or your partner has.

[@adambathon]

Couldn’t an open relationship cause more shame? Also - trendy is what it sounds like along with no self control required unless you’re at the gym as a gay man then you’re self control with your body must be flawless. LoL

[@ted1091]

Trendy is definitely the right description

[@petitflowr275]

Would have love to see more of this being adressed in the conversation… sad that they didn’t explore more of these topics

[@khong_xiong]

Monogamy takes discipline. People in open relationships will truly never be happy because they’ll always want more. Key to a fulfilling life is being grateful for what you have. Why drag this shit along, making things so complicated and leading to a path of misery and destruction? If you’re not happy in the relationship than just fucking leave? Most people follow this trend because they’re just following the crowd. It takes courage to believe differently than the herd.

[@carlosa.1763]

Sometimes, people pretend to be open saying that they are ok with bringing another person while they are still dating. They convinced themselves to accept everything to maintain a little affection.

[@kensmall4725]

Please help this mature whiite Marine be gay i will love with my ❤ for helping me be like you

[@MbartM96]

Wow, a lot of raging judgements being made in these comments. There’s a difference between expressing an opinion and damning everyone in an open relationship to hell. When’re you guys burning the witch?

[@brucass93]

Best relationship by far totally open. Fusional is not for me

[@GayMenGoingDeeper]

We’re glad you found what works for you and that it brings you joy. That’s what it’s all about ❤️

[@alanaban1840]

The easy way to get Aids and std is in an open relationship if they is what u like ok

[@tannerpoole2777]

These comments are just full of monogamous people calling poly people disgusting. Crazy how simple saying “polygamy is great if it works for you” is met with such visceral hate

[@carlorizzo827]

I tend to agree. I know some couples who are surviving, and some open-ness seems to provide some balance. Mostly, the relationship re-closes, "open" was just a phase

[@adambathon]

Cheating and not getting caught makes life easier hahahaha

[@ComeonmyIcelandicface]

4 gays. 4 disappointed fathers

[@Scar-jg4bn]

Projecting much?

[@CubBro-z1k]

If you just stay with one person then you don't have catch anything and use protection ..

[@leeshepherd5669]

I prefer open Like to have my CAKE and eat it too..Beside I dont want nobody putting chains on me..