Optifine's Copied Features

[@PGrayOfficial]

It’s ironic how Optifine, the “better option”, managed to become completely irrelevant due to there being better options.

[@mosti72]

(Optifine not needed)

[@elypse5800]

me a 1.7/1.8 player still only being able to use optifine :

[@notkarma2984]

​@@elypse5800There is a mod called "Angelica" which is backport of Sodium+Embedium for 1710

[@ViciousVinnyD]

@@elypse5800 There's a new mod for 1.7.10 called Angelica which adds most of Optifine's features but with Sodium's performance, effectively making it a better version of Optifine. The irony is rich.

[@APerson-14]

@@elypse5800 optifine is good for old versions but bad for new versions

[@unHolyEvelyn]

Sodium knocked the crown off the king, and Iris slayed it.

[@BossKnight]

could've said tyrant

[@V972]

@@BossKnight the two aren't mutually exclusive

[@SunDry_Marchy]

The crown was made with paper and crayons

[@SunDry_Marchy]

@@V972 oh also hi :D

[@張謙-n3l]

Sodium and Iris are totally different mods, sodium is to improve performance while Iris is to allow shaders

[@uk4558]

It's funny how the only reason optifine won is its performance improvement but know it's losing because of its lack of performance improvements when compared to sodium

[@lightning_11]

I'm not sure what to think. I use sodium, though, so I hope this kind of issue never happens again.

[@Nosypoke]

Or compared to vanilla lol

[@beaconJr64]

sodiom only works with like 3 of the thing mcpacker did

[@Voipy]

@@beaconJr64 sodium is for performance ONLY, if you want the shaders like Optifine, you get iris. if you want the zoom, you get zoomify.

[@Dunkydoggo]

Dous sodium also have the zoom

[@ouroya]

i feel so old seeing someone not know what mcpatcher is. i remember the days of opening mcpatcher every time minecraft got an update to patch the latest version

[@xymaryai8283]

i never used it, bc my pc was too slow to run stock minecraft. but i learned it was a texturepack mod and looked up how to use it with optifine and got sad when i couldn't use the really cool texturepacks (even though i probably could)

[@haroldsaxon1075]

I started playing back in the days of 1.6, and even back then, optifine did't play nice with a lot of mods, so i mostly used MC patcher. those were the cowboy days of mods, core moding galore, and like 3 different mod loaders that could sometimes sort of be forced to run together

[@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708]

I don't remember it because I was very young and didn't understand mods

[@rosecarter5597]

IKR SAME HERE

[@mercury5003]

Ive been playing since alpha and if I used it at any point I forgot.

[@anoukk_]

OF being closed source makes this even more scummy

[@Notsalmon547]

Remember everyone, if the creator doesn’t want you digging around in the code, *theres probably a not good reason.*

[@Marklikesminecraft]

You shouldn't say OF bro 😭

[@fujiwaranonekobiodrando1257]

​@@Marklikesminecraft ONLYFANS!1?!?!!!!!

[@onyx5902]

Of course it is. You wouldn't want someone stealing the code...

[@Sinchu9]

@@onyx5902 Code theft in modding is a comparatively non-issue though. If your stuff is open source and somebody steals the code, its only a problem if they make their stuff closed source On the otherhand, if your stuff is open source, people can use it for inspiration, guidence, and can make their stuff compatible without having to ask you to do it (See Tinkers Construct not being compatible with Optifine, because Optifine is closed source and the Optifine devs refuse to fix the issue themselves)

[@jacoL8]

kinda sad that most of the comments ignore the meat of the video and are talking about how "optifine is dead now" ... I mean yah sure... but still people need to consider that someone just lined their pockets with money made by what is basically a step above asset flips...

[@riverpubby]

I'd say a step below, honestly. Usually when people make asset flips they at least still arrange the assets in a way that works for their game. But as shown in the video this was just straight up a copy paste job without even restructuring.

[@rompevuevitos222]

1: It is not an "asset flip". OF went above and beyond and made a better mod, that is why people prefer it. That is normal for software development. You wouldn't want people to hold back just so your work retains more value, that is just dumb. 2: OF money was to cover the site's expenses (which MCPatcher didn't have due to being posted in a forum) AND the cape server (that had to be hosted and managed from somewhere). Yes, they made more than they needed, not the end of the world. 3: Taking code from an open source project and improving on it is not something bad. Have you never heard of git forks? It is an industry standard to provide an easy way to replicate and modify other's code. The main issue here is the limited credit and the fact that OF is closed source (which is just scummy overall, even if it didn't use someone's code)

[@kamdenmcleanmovies]

You had to pay to use optifine??

[@rompevuevitos222]

@@kamdenmcleanmovies No, they had donations to fund the mod, host site and the cape server.

[@kamdenmcleanmovies]

@@rompevuevitos222 so it’s not like they were rolling in it from this lmfao

[@thalianero1071]

Optifine is infamous in the resource pack community for its buggy implementation of mcpatcher’s features, _especially_ with regards to modded content. Tho when you’re racing to reimplement features in only a few weeks I shouldn’t be surprised.

[@z-beeblebrox]

I didn't follow resource packs, but I distinctly remember how the modding community would operate in waves of either VEHEMENTLY warning users against using Optifine to just being ambivalent about it and back again, depending on the update. But iirc they were never positive about it, and you'd often see in giant bold letters at the top of a mod creator's thread demanding that you try removing Optifine before reporting any bugs.

[@rompevuevitos222]

@@z-beeblebrox ofc you'd have to remove optifine lmao. No one wants to fix someone else's bugs or bugs you caused by mixing mods. And yes, Optifine had other priorities (like performance), you can't expect them to shine at everything.

[@MyScorpion42]

@@rompevuevitos222 then they should focus on that instead of implementing other features badly

[@rompevuevitos222]

@@MyScorpion42 they did... That is why the other features are poorly implemented...

[@Death_Tr00per58]

I switched to sodium about 6 months ago and have never looked back. Poor performance optimization and progressively breaking features really made me realize how lazy the optifine dev was, and since switching, I'm able to access better versions of all these pack add-ons that I can use to customize my game. I hope that someday people will realize that optifine isn't really necessary anymore.

[@ViciousVinnyD]

I used to use it because it was the only option. Now there's a buffet of superior graphics & performance mods I have no reason to use that stinking pile of closed-source code that randomly breaks half my mods. Thank god for Sodium, Iris, and all the other open source projects for breaking us out of this strangle-hold.

[@amberhernandez]

"Optifine not needed."

[@codbug]

Misa here. With the possible exception of Continuity, I can assure you this is largely untrue. Unfortunately Optifine still has a bunch of little features that don't have Sodium/Fabric equivalents yet, or are nearly always not as up to date (Notably CEM and CIT-related stuff). I would love an alternative to Optifine, but as it is, there's too many things that have been in my texture pack for nearly 14 years at this point that are not supported by current alternatives to Optifine. The better performance is also likely due to many of these missing supported features, and not as much to do with poor/lazy optimization. Without all the same features supported by the alternatives, it's not a fair comparison.

[@tomikun8057]

Sodium is an entirely different beast underneath Optifine only heavily tweaks mojang's rendering Sodium literally replaces it from the ground up and they plan on doing it again for even more performance This results in less compatibility for very old potato PCs since those don't support the modern techniques Sodium employs

[@joeeeyyyyyy]

​@@codbughave faith in sodium. Sp won't get away with it twice

[@ricedanan]

God, hearing someone not knowing what MCPatcher was makes me feel old and kind of melancholy

[@RaiginAnimator]

Uhhhhh I just head about this mod 👀

[@SkyanUltra]

to be fair i've been in this community since back in release and i never even heard of mcpatcher. that's probably just because i was way more interested in the fun silly mods like clay soldiers and gullivers than anything else

[@MozzarellaWizard]

"Optifine is like an RV, while a mod like Sodium is an F1 car. It's really fast, but you can cook meth inside of Optifine" my day has been made

[@bunnymaan]

This is one of the best quotes ever imo

[@user-random-1]

But you can install additional mods (which implements other features of optifine), to expand the car, but keep the same speed and mobility

[@FuGyz]

SAME, SUCH A LEGENDARY QUOTE

[@tomikun8057]

​@@user-random-1aka just putting an RV at the back of the F1 The RV you'll be buying is of course newer than the other guy and therefore better The RV is brand new though so you have to get ingredients to cook meth

[@Damon-]

@@user-random-1 OptiFine is like a tricked-out RV: packed with all the bells and whistles, and yeah, you can even cook meth in it. Sodium, on the other hand, is an F1 car-sleek, fast, and built purely for speed. Sure, you could strap that RV onto the back of the F1, giving yourself more room for the meth lab, but to keep it from crawling, you'd need to slap on some rocket boosters (or a few performance-enhancing ̶S̶t̶e̶r̶i̶o̶d̶s mods) to make sure it keeps down the track at its speed.

[@savdebunnies]

I wouldn't be surprised if Mojang is fully aware of all this and that's why the negotiations to work with sp broke down a while back.

[@KyzenEX]

It's funny how it kept itself as closed-source, now it makes complete sense. It's always unscrupulous rats who steal code the ones who always make sure their code is as secret as possible. Funniest thing is, the way its coded makes it far inferior to any other option; both in term of performance gain as well as overall compatibility, while most of said options are, in fact, open source.

[@swishoemi]

i guess you can say that optifine isn't doing so opti-fine after all

[@jacoL8]

read the description of the video... lol

[@MisterCOM]

This once again shows that cloased source makes basically zero sense for game mods

[@anoukk_]

27:56 DID YOU JUST DO THAT? Did you just cut away the MOMENT that was going to hit the corner? HOW DARE YOU!

[@spin4team4096]

Also at 15:40 😭

[@imnotherenow200]

peak editing

[@Enirom]

going frame by frame I don't think the logo was gonna hit the corner in both of these moments, at least not perfectly, it's *really* close though, just not close enough

[@dyrania]

Yea Optifine’s entire timeline feels like some Greek comedy.

[@logamuffin3876]

Meanwhile, MCPatcher’s timeline is a Greek tragedy.

[@FyreofShadow]

Man, can't believe I actually kind of knew about this. Stumbled across some MCPatcher files when doing some texture work for GT:NH (a 1.7.10 modpack) and it got me thinking a little. Never found out that the features were BLATANTLY stolen and implemented in Optifine instead of them being merged though, that's all new to me. Jesus christ, man.

[@BodaciousCarmichael]

The Optifine situation is insane

[@Bayyyro]

the The Optifine situation is insane situation is insane

[@Dia.dromes]

Optifine is FINISHED/exposed

[@c-c-combobreak]

*Picture of Optifine icon with a black bar*

[@TheSilly6403]

I hate Charlie's videos so much

[@Austinfdp]

@@TheSilly6403charlie’s videos are crazy

[@timeittells]

this is seriously crazy I can't believe no one knew about this

[@craftycodie]

Nobody cared about this

[@TheiBunny]

people did know about this back in the day, I remember playing on an smp plot server around the time - for pretty much all of 2012/2013... and anyone that tried to brag about their optifine cape were quick to be shat on by other active players for paying real money to support theft just for a cosmetic nobody else could even see lmao

[@codex4048]

This was quite well known back in the day, and its one of the reasons I've only downloaded optifine once and never again. Both MCPatcher and Optifine are from the days where modloaders weren't a thing. To install a mod you had to overwrite a piece of the files in the Minecraft.jar. mods only worked together if they didn't touch the same files. For more popular mods people made a special download for people using the other mod as well so they could work together. That is what was so great about MCPatcher, you knew it would work together. Modloaders like Forge, and later Fabric made it possible to avoid these types of conflicts because the modloaders creates hooks and makes sure everyone that wants to hook in the same thing will get it. By the birth of Forge, MCPatcher wasn't needed anymore.

[@theairaccumulator7144]

Because there is no proof? You can copy the features and the file structure without copying any code. I've done it myself lots of times too, making something similar to an existing piece of software which can read the same config but has nothing else in common with it.

[@Laynord]

@@theairaccumulator7144 why keep the folder name if you are writing it yourself and why act like a dick abt it in your dev notes are you rly trying to defend this piece of shit of sp rn ?

[@FlanneryMoore]

I'm happy someone is talking about this again. Unfortunately, very little attention was ever given to the issue, and all of my own attempts to tell folks about it were fruitless. Although as nice as it is to see this, I'm too bitter and jaded to see things in a positive light, so I can't imagine this video will help too much. I hope I'm wrong. (Edited my comment to remove some 'oversharing'; I struggle with that too often.)

[@youtubeuser8951]

Close enough, welcome back Hbomberguy

[@utopiandystopia1383]

except hbomberguy showcased examples of actual plagiarism and this guy just described common development practices and attributed them to "plagiarism"

[@TheRenegade...]

​@@utopiandystopia1383The documentation was literally plagiarised

[@shalpp]

hbomberguy is a scummy turd who turns what should just be a documentary piece into a shit flinging session that feels like he's very subtly (not subtly) stroking his ego wouldn't make comparisons as a good thing lol

[@gustavolopes5094]

@@utopiandystopia1383 Yeah man, developer here and... Common is to go to stackoverflow, or opensource projects, see how they dealt with something to see if any inspiration or help comes. What this guy was doing was not only plagiarizing documentation, but straight-up copying and pasting code, which would get anyone banned from uni btw, AND targeting a specific, open source, other project to intentionally destroy it.

[@un_pogaz]

Is funny that you talk about the stolen MCPatcher feature at this particular time, because it sheds light on a problem that part of the Texture Pack community is currently experiencing: Many people are familiar with CTM (Connected Texture Mod), but there's also an 'equivalent' for items, CIT (Customizable Items Texture), which lets you modify item textures according to the NBT value associated with the item. However, since 1.20.5, items no longer have NBT values and use Components. This breaks the integrality of CIT features, and the most dramatic thing is that Components are namespaced names, which requires special attention in the revision of the format to support namespace. And therein lies the problem facing the Texture Pack community: Nobody knows what form this revision will take. Everyone's waiting for the release of Optifine 1.20.5 or 1.21, which will present to the world the new implementation decided unilaterally by one guy. And now you're telling me that CIT was _not_ developed by sp614x? Hmm, that explains some of this mess. CTM and CIT were created by other people, and sp614x has done nothing but maintain its features at arm's length. And with the arrival of Components, that mean he need to work one a code that he would have probably preferred never to modify to such an extent (in addition to all the other problems encountered by Optifine).

[@TheMedievalboy]

my friend sent this to me and it’s so weird that no one knows this happened

[@notajalapeno4442]

while yes Sodium is an F1 and Optifine is like an RV you can just add iris to get shaders and alot of the features

[@Lucawee]

Iris turns sodium into a lambo, you can do much more things compared to the F1 but still can't cook meth

[@codenamec.a.t2480]

@@Lucaweeso what does that make Embeddium

[@Grafii2198]

@@codenamec.a.t2480 paint job on sodium

[@timolino567]

@@codenamec.a.t2480 Embeddium is the weird copied chinese car whose manufacturers tell you is the better option. Saying this because the things Embeddium added themselves (FRAPI support, Translucency sorting) are implemented terribly and Sodium 0.6, which is in public Beta now, implemented them in a way better way and provides NeoForge support.

[@kindredbarkmaw2509]

@@timolino567 oh, so sodium is now taking the MCPatcher card play and *cooperating between authors to make the mod community better for players?* Almost like that's part of why someone like kahr was passionate about MCPatcher at a ll in the first place, wild. Seriously tho I've heard about Sodium's dev and this is very in-character for them, rad to hear they're still slamming along with new ideas and improving things. Good on em.

[@derangedfreackingtwistedps5048]

Kids these days will never look into their fireplace and be told "install mcpatcher noob"

[@that_guy1211]

aaaaaaand now nobody cares about OF cause of Sodium and Iris, great! i really couldn't care less if OF stopped being mantained at all since Sodium is made to run on most PCs, so everything's great either way! Would also love if forge was abandoned and completely replaced by fabric! That'd be awesome too!

[@firetrap6706]

honestly forge is getting abandoned in favor of neoforge and with connector mod we get fabric, imagine if we had fabric compatibility built in so we could have 1 solid loader

[@TheRavenofSin]

Yeah, but some mods are only on 1.12 and Sodium and Iris aren't on that version. Yet at least. Just a couple days ago I was on the hunt for alternatives to Optifine for that version and no luck yet.

[@misterpotato427]

Soy launcher

[@davidddo]

​@@TheRavenofSin1.12 is definitely going to be dead in a couple years

[@runekongstadlarsen7569]

@@davidddo no, it is still one of the biggest versions, like 1.7 it will likely take WAAAAAY longer if ever for that to happen. even more so when we take into acount modpacks like gregtecg newhorizons that gave a holy uniqe way to play

[@AltaryaDeFlammes1996]

ah back in the day, the real olden days, MCPatcher was also how you installed any kind of mod. I remember when you'd add Modloader then use MCPatcher as basically a mod manager lite, it worked pretty well for what was effectively the wild west with no binding APIs to anything. I always held that mod in very high regard

[@rightleft7306]

"For the many filthy casuals out there, Optifine might be the one and only Minecraft mod they can name" it's even worse, most people don't even think of it as a mod anymore!

[@masterzoroark6664]

TLDR: another thing to add do the pile of "Why optifine is a trashheap" but this time it's plaguerism instead of just being bad at it's job

[@theairaccumulator7144]

Is it plagiarism when the original code was under a permissive license? You can put a NCS song into your video without getting copyright striked. It's the same with public domain and MIT licensed code which MCPatcher was. Anyone can take it and do whatever they want with it without crediting the original author.

[@m4rt_]

It isn't plagiarism. 1. MCPatcher's code was in the public domain in 2011 (changed to MIT in 2013, and MIT does require crediting, but this was added in 2013... after all this had happened) 2. The OptiFine implementations were likely SP's own work, since it is missing a lot of features, has a lot of bugs, and has to work with OptiFine's custom renderer. 3. The documentation was copied, but it was credited, which is shitty, but not plagiarism.

[@lpfan4491]

​@@m4rt_ Otherwise meaning "it is not plagarism, it is worse than plagarism. Because at least plagarized work is not actively worse compared to the original"

[@oddnightsky1367]

@@m4rt_ this is not how public domain works. unlicensed code is still protected under copyright a license serves as a "you're allowed to do X provided you do Y" without a license you're technically not allowed to do anything beyond reading/compiling/running the code

[@jackriley6936]

​@@m4rt_Stealing != plagiarism. It was literally plagiarism.

[@hanro50]

In the software circle, you can not copyright an api (see Google v Oracle). File formats can take a while to reverse engineer if no documentation exists. However, considering that mcpatcher likely had documentation on the file formats it used available to pack makers, a simple bit of reverse engineering is likely all it took to build code that'll read and interpret what is stored within those files. The hard part would have been getting optifine to support the same features mcpatcher had. Java is also absurdly easy to decompile. If SP copied MCPatcher's code, then one round with a java decompile tool is all it'll take to reveal that.

[@m4rt_]

He wouldn't even have needed to decompile it. The MCPatcher source code is open source, and at the time (in 2011) it was in the public domain. Though I still suspect SP still had to re-implement a lot of stuff.

[@hanro50]

@m4rt_ my point is we can decompile optifine to check if sp stole code.

[@BossKnight]

@@hanro50 you should do that if you know how, it'd be interesting to see

[@Creepus_Explodus]

@@hanro50 OptiFine is obfuscated so I doubt you'd be able to recover any evidence of the original code

[@TheRedstonian]

@@Creepus_Explodus Oh boy, time to spend the next year of my life blindly guessing obfuscated function names!

[@coffeefish4743]

Optifine being mostly replaced by a open source, better, and community made set of mods (iris, sodium ect.) and the game itself might be the best ending to this story that we could hope for. sp was beaten even though he could cheat.

[@anthonybrown2781]

No wonder why Optifine’s website always felt so weird and scummy. Optifine was built on bad blood.

[@12...]

honestly "uses the same file structure" isn't bad. (or, wouldnt be, if the features were implemented correctly) having multiple competing implementations of the same system is generally a good thing, **IF they're honest about it!**

[@Notsalmon547]

Basically yeah. If sp had credited kahr, **most** things would be fine, butttt…. *that didn’t happen.*

[@Aktimoose]

yeah i mean plenty of mods right now do that to optifine, it's just scummy the way they went about it

[@theairaccumulator7144]

@@Notsalmon547 he didn't invent putting files inside of folders. If the optifine dev didn't copy any of his code directly there is nothing to credit. This is the whole premise behind clean room reverse engineering.

[@Laynord]

and if it isnt just a copy and paste of a feature .. he didnt bother to change the name of the folder .

[@ViciousVinnyD]

I'm honestly glad he replicated the file structure, as this made everyone's life easier. But copy-pasting documentation, giving zero credit, AND claiming it does everything when it actually doesn't is scummy as fuck. Jesus.

[@wildberrysherbert3803]

Dear god, this is way too much like the Sonic Omens controversy. But with more plagiarism. I really can't escape the bad omens...

[@cac0da]

Good information to know, but I’m absolutely pissed that the block never hit the corner of the screen. You’ve just lost yourself a subscriber, buddy.

[@beaconJr64]

i know i disliked it

[@supsick]

we should begin a formal protest

[@retroshredmc]

it did right before the wii sports

[@liminalityy_]

It did a few times but they kept on cutting off before it actually happened

[@someone-mh5uf]

​@@liminalityy_ sounds evil NGL

[@gamagama69]

the mod used an mit license, its technically okay except for the lack of credit, its just scummy

[@namelessalias0007]

Yeah I saw noticed that too... Edit: MCPatcher was originally under the public domain and was later changed to MIT

[@4NT0N10MZC]

and that my friends is why you use the GPL

[@m4rt_]

@@namelessalias0007 It's also important to note that it was changed to MIT in 2013 In 2011 when this was happening, it was in the public domain.

[@BossKnight]

@@m4rt_ that doesn't make it any less scummy to (seemingly) steal open source code to make a closed source competitor with, which you are putting adverts on

[@rompevuevitos222]

@@m4rt_ I imagine it was just unlicensed back then, which defaults to full copyright. MCPatcher's dev probably realized this later and fixed it.

[@Swiftercat]

Well said, Well sourced, Well researched, music timestamped, 10/10. Lets hope the youtube gods spread this like a wildfire

[@m4rt_]

Actually, no. 1. They didn't look into and point out the fact that at the time MCPatcher's code was in the public domain in 2011 2. They misunderstood the difference between copying and re-implementing, and don't clearly explaining this to the viewer 3. They misrepresented the documentation as plagiarized even though it literally credits MCPatcher. This has just lead to people misunderstanding the situation and blowing it way out of proportion, which you can see people do in the comments here.

[@tarosceptic]

this man @@m4rt_ really gonna give sp614x that hawk tuah for completely free with no monetary compensation

[@CONNORISSUPERGOOFY]

@@m4rt_Stop defending SP for what he did. Sure it wasn't illegal, sure this video gets a few things wrong, but the point is, legal or not, what SP did was still scummy, saying that "MC Patcher is not needed anymore" in the forum posts doesn't help SP's case either.

[@hybridizedhere]

yknow funny thing is one thing with optifine is that you dont need to format things corretly (for CIT features specifically) so optifine CIT packs can become obsolete on CITresewn and mcpatcher and you have to reformat the entire thing to get custom models to work and stuff. yet if it works for MCpatcher and CITresewn it will ALWAYS work for Optifine except for a few slight mishaps that are from optifines shortcomings

[@LautnerGames]

Kinda crazy I always thought Optifine WAS the newer version of MCpatcher. Poor Kahr.

[@MineCreeperLPs]

Welp this makes much more sense as to why Mojang refused to hire SP to fully implement OptiFine into Minecraft.

[@atomictem5725]

Optifine made money off of features other people implemented. In short Optifine is open to a lawsuit. Furthermore SP added features and performance improvements arent even his own, the only part of Optifine that is wholly original to him is the fog adjustrment, everything else was made by somebody else and he made money off their hard work. SP is estimated to have made hundreds of thousands of dollars off of optifine, maybe even millions.

[@skejeton]

If he stole the code, then yes, it's infringement. If he stole the ideas/format, then no, there's no infringement. I don't think he stole any code, personally.

[@sonicmeerkat]

@@skejeton he did steal the format, the folder in the older versions literally had a mcpatcher folder lol

[@atomictem5725]

@@skejeton Oh he had too, reverse engineer take much longer to do then making anything scratch especially when it comes to coding. MCpatcher was open source. To have the features he supposedly developed so quickly and match MCpatcher, he would have had to have taken the code straight from MCpatcher.

[@skejeton]

@@sonicmeerkat "Stealing" a format is a standard practice in modding communities and in the software industry as a whole, do you think Iris is wrong for "stealing" the shader format from OptiFine?

[@skejeton]

@@atomictem5725 Even if he took code from MCPatcher and related mods, it depends on which license MCPatcher and the related mods had. Under MIT license, for example, SP would be free to take the source code, even if proprietary, as long as he credited the original developer somewhere. If it was a GPL license, then SP would be in trouble, as he'd need to open source OptiFine as well.

[@realMILLER]

Optifine (from my knowledge) is not even actively worked on anymore. I heard it was consistently just being ported to the newest version.

[@Grafii2198]

To my knowledge, the author just doesn't have time due to some life issues

[@killsode4760]

Yeah I don't think if I can trust his word on that

[@timolino567]

SP does add a few features here and there from time to time (like new shader stuff and CEM model support), but it's nothing major. The last real improvement they did was when they vastly improved the Render Regions option, which they only did to better compete with Sodium (and it did help, but Sodium is still way better).

[@tarosceptic]

the hbomberguy references absolutely whacked me in the face

[@tomikun8057]

Funnily enough a similar thing happened with Sodium and Embeddium, but Sodium actually fought back, and hard. You can read up on it on the github issue that led to them swapping licences to polyform shield to deter Embeddium from stealing their future innovations.

[@ambientNexus]

That's not at all what happened. Jellysquid got pissy over Embeddedt making a hypothetical about turning embeddium into a hard fork, and ironically made him and Nolij have to hard fork the mod by blocking them from contributing to Sodium's source code. The revenue arguments later on was due to Jelly getting desperate for money as a result of being jobless, trying to act as if Embeddedt owed them money, even though it was their own choice to not develop an official forge version. On another note, Sodium going closed-source is genuinely stupid, and it just makes me want to support Embeddium even more.

[@tomikun8057]

@@ambientNexus No, Embeddium tried to literally replace Sodium. They made a Fabric version specifically to be an asshole to Jelly. Jelly was fine with Embeddium existing but the creator was literally sending harassment campaigns and saying they're replaceable. It's also not closed source, you're just not allowed to create a blatant copy of it. A Forge port is still legal as it's not competing with Sodium. This does not mean it complies with OSI. I have no clue what revenue arguments you're talking about.

[@tomikun8057]

@@ambientNexus Oh also, it was a hard fork from the start, they did not intend on getting merged ever because they were a forge mod, not s fabric one, and all they did was copy sodium code and made it work on forge. They wouldn't exist without sodium.

[@ambientNexus]

@@tomikun8057 Genuinely where the hell did you pull any of that from? What "harassment campaigns"? When did either Embeddedt or Nolij say Sodium was replaceable? The fabric version didn't even exist until after Jelly had blocked them from contributing to the repo, so how could it have been a "replacement" attempt?

[@ambientNexus]

@@tomikun8057 I never said it would have existed without Sodium, and I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. And no, Embeddedt and Nolij were still contributing to the Sodium source code up until Jelly blocked them from the repo, which is the complete opposite of a hard fork. A hard fork is a fork that takes the code and goes in a completely different direction with no upstream contribution, like Neoforge to old Forge. That wasn't the case with Embeddium until Jelly forced a hard fork by blocking Embeddedt and Nolij from upstream contribution.

[@S0ULESSB0NES]

AND I WILLINGLY GAVE THEM MONEY AS A TWEEN? GOD.

[@spirit5923]

It's such a shame that a good dev got treated like shit by everyone because someone decided to line their pockets. I would argue there can be a benefit from POLITELY challenging the owner of optifine. The man responsible for its fucking existence may finally be recognized and treated properly.. at the absolute minimum. At worst, however, it may destroy optifine. I think best case, of the optifine owner stands down and someone respectable takes the reigns through its death lol

[@dpgwalter]

To be fair, ensuring compatibility with MCPatcher is a pretty reasonable idea. Less work for you, lets everyone keep using their already existing assets without much hassle.

[@gamemonster7434]

I like thinking that optifine started getting slower updates because mcpatcher died

[@ViciousVinnyD]

When all it did was copy features and it's source of features died, yeah it's gonna update slower lmao

[@haroldsaxon1075]

Optifine wanted to be standalone, and did it's best to maintain full compatability with mcpatcher texture packs. Sp614x was always the type to want to implement things his own way, because he thought his implementation was better. and if he wanted $ he would have sold to mojang back in the day. he's just a control freak. there was constant drama about optifine breaking all sorts of mods, and optifine being closed sorce did no favors fixing those. Sp614x never wanted to help mods be compatable or anything. he just wants things to be his way.

[@mowriow]

I cannot agree with this comment more

[@streambotnt2095]

I hate optifine even more now, fuck sp

[@SomeoneCalledAdrian]

@@Treasuryholder6 then why comment?

[@cromfrein5834]

​@@SomeoneCalledAdrian to boost the video's engagement is a good enough reason

[@SomeoneCalledAdrian]

@@cromfrein5834fair enough

[@Raveded]

Fuck star platinum?!?

[@RaidenKaiser]

Optifine being shady and destructive to the moddine community? Never ~

[@unamelable256]

So, im seeing situation as: 1. Creator of MCPatcher didn't wanted to make conflicts on the forum, and being toxic in general. Because he would be banned, and maybe he was young when making it. 2. When Optifine was out. MCPatcher dev stay silent, because even if he started to stay his ground because Optifine dev literaly copypasted every features. He still has a worth argument of (Optifine was an optimization mod at the first place). And even if he asked him to delete all features. Im pretty sure that person of optifine just stole them all when MCPatcher dev went offline completly. 3. Most likely MCPatcher dev wasn't acknowledge about the scammy behaviour of Optifine dev, and because he was really tilted by the fact that Optifine dev gonna steal all features again. And because he became aware of the bullsquid Optifine dev was pulling out like crazy ad monetization, making mod close-based code, literally force players to pay him so people would download it, not maintain features that was broken by Optifine updates because he didn't care about MCPatcher at first place. So, he just. Quit? 4. After this all situation, im still happy that people started to share free copy of optifine mode because this story really shows how Optifine dev killed developer of main visual fixes, because of his rotten and beyond scummy behaviour. Im feel really sorry about MCPatcher dev because, he probably could stop this. But he never did. Maybe in other scenario optifine would die because he didn't had anything from the visual features. Or Optifine could be a seperate mod, or MCPatcher would be a mod. Or maybe both. Anyways at end of the day, we lost an innovative guy.

[@swedneck]

the fact that optifine is dying and being forgotten brings me joy

[@ViciousVinnyD]

Even if we ignore the ethical and legal dumpster fire, optifine being closed-source made it a mess to get working with other mods.

[@graysongdl]

I'm glad OptiFine is getting replaced. Closed-source corporate trash should always be replaced by open-source passion projects. It happened with recording software, it happened with video editors, it happened with image manipulation tools, and more types of software than I can even begin to try to list. And no, I'm not just getting my opinion from this video. I've had a distaste for OptiFine for a long time due to it being closed-source and financially motivated. I first realized something was up when I learned of their policy that you can't redistribute OptiFine as part of a modpack, which is just scummy. Allegedly, this is because the creator doesn't want to be blamed for rendering issues that only arise due to other mods in the pack. But if the mod was open-source, then every mod under the sun could ensure that their mod is compatible. Outright banning the ability to even put it in a modpack, even if it's just a client-side quality of life pack, is ridiculous and has made me dislike OF for a long time. Allegedly (and I cannot stress enough that I can't find the source for this info so take it with a grain of salt), OptiFine was approached by Mojang to have their fixes and optimizations implemented into Minecraft itself, only for the creator of OF to demand Mojang, in return, add OptiFine capes to Minecraft, presumably so he could continue to make money. The official stance is that Mojang only wanted to implement "parts" of OF, but given that info is from OptiFine itself, it could just be them trying to tell a half-truth. Hard to say, and I don't wanna give them the benefit of the doubt after everything they've done.

[@lasercraft32]

I hate that Minecraft STILL doesn't have vanilla methods of doing the things you need MCPatcher for... And the easiest way to _use_ MCPatcher IS to use Optifine. Its very annoying. I wish useful resource pack functionality wasn't locked behind mods.

[@ImmortalPaladin]

wow. I had almost no idea what MCPatcher was until now. I play a lot of 1.8 pvp, so the old texture packs still have the folder named MCPatcher, but I didn’t know what that meant

[@mtvzhongguo]

This is one of the best put together MC documentaries I have ever seen

[@m4rt_]

No, it is put together, and is edited well, but it leaves out a lot of small but important details. Like the fact that in 2011 the MCPatcher source code was in the public domain, and claiming that if you copy something, even if you credit it, it's plagiarism, which is not the case.

[@neomothdev2]

thank fucking christ sodium and vulkanmod are outclassing optifine to such a high degree that NOBODY is using it anymore at this point, serves the guy right. i hope hes happy with his near decade of lies and plagiarism

[@inconnn]

i just hate closed-source software in general so this gives me even more reason to hate optifine. i just use sodium and mods that implement the features that optifine stole. additionally, sodium can update way quicker due to the way fabric is designed, and since they only do one single thing: replace the default Minecraft renderer with a highly-optimized version.

[@mowriow]

I am really glad that you pointed this out. I am so sick and tired of people angrily complaining Sodium has stolen the key innovations from Optifine lol, as if Optifine had been the purest form of "innovations." :)

[@mowriow]

And I think you have already known this, but the reason why lots of people stopped making a humongous jumbled mix of everything-in-one mod just like Optifine is because of the poor speed of development and the lack of improvement for a long span of time due to one person possessing the almighty power to do anything with that single mod, which happened in Optifine as well as Forge, and which also signaled the doom and ultimate demise of both systems.

[@EclipseCat]

way way back i remember always using mcpatcher to play with my favorite texture packs, optifine was already a thing at the time but i didnt really know about it then, and when i learned about it, tried it, and finally i could get more than 20 fps in game and i saw that it had "all of mcpatchers features" i moved to using it instead back then. misa's texture pack was a favorite of mine back then, and even then i could feel it in my bones, it didnt look exactly the same, but i wasnt sure how or why.. plus my poor old intel IGP PC just really needed optifine anyways. i think that there is the saddest thing about this to me, back then i didnt have an option i simply needed optimizations for my game, even if optifine never got those mcpatcher features i prolly still wouldve moved to using optifine anyways because these two mods didnt work together (from what i recall), and between my game looking pretty or running smoothly i wouldve always chosen smooth.

[@maximum4234]

hbomberguy if he was Minecraft

[@P4ncake_.]

I've learned about mcpatcher while making a resourcepack that made enchanted items have different textures. I watched the UncleJam video about it and he always had the "mcpatcher" folder and all the comments were just saying to rename it to optifine so I did and just ignored it. After some time I learned about how shady optifine is and then I learned that it just stole mcpatcher. I hope the original creator of mcpatcher will perhaps return

[@Local_Lad]

OptiFine is now becoming outdated because of vanilla Minecraft. I love this.

[@Ribbons0121R121]

The light flickering one fixed it because the light flicker is in the light map color palette, left to right The y level of sprites determine what the light is for, including global light for dimensions, with the overworld section gets day and night but also the torch section, which has a flickering row

[@dbrighthd]

Something ETF/EMF is doing is adding a lot of features that werent a thing in optifine, expanding upon it more for resource pack creators to do more cool stuff

[@mzov_1724]

Funny how Optifine replaced Patcher because of the performance side of things, and now the only reason people still use optifine is the stuff they took from it.

[@YigitCanAydinSS]

Didn't like Optifine already now I don't like it even more. Scumtifine

[@icaro8264]

omg a new reason to the pile of reasons to not use optifine

[@LH7_Legendan]

What I Liked what OptiFine have are Render Resolutions , Shadow Resolutions Anti Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering features

[@eddyb2302]

Videos like these are severely underrated. Growing up on the internet has only made me realize more and more just how important documentation of this kind of stuff can be. Amazing video!

[@haiperbus]

learning how to get and use MCpatcher back in 2011 was how I learned to use computers

[@leapbtw]

you’re missing out on a HUGE point in this video. MCPatcher is licensed as MIT, which is a license that allows this kind of use of the code (copying it, modifying it and making profit on it by someone else)

[@Senatrix-Rocket]

The MIT license requires all redistributed code to also be under the MIT license to be protected, which Optifine is not Edit: nevermind, MIT just requires the license to appear in the redistribution, not that it has to be under the same license. Optifine doesn't do this either, though.

[@protat0]

thank you for including sources!

[@SpearMKW]

i play on a server which has its own Resource Pack which for years required Optifine to use. Support for these kind of RPs as well as allowing use of Shaders were the major advantages it had against Sodium. Nowadays, after some updates to the pack, we all swapped to using a combination of the mods CITResewn, ETF and EMF to make the pack work while being compatible with Sodium's superior performance, and if you want shaders you can simply install Iris as well. now yes thats a combination of 5 mods (and a Fabric install) to achieve the same thing just Optifine does, but it still manages to be the far prefered alternative. EDIT: fun fact, Data who posted the discord message at 21:42 is a member of our server and is currently one of the lead developers of this Resource Pack i mentioned.

[@ViciousVinnyD]

Not to mention you're no longer chained to a closed-source mod maintained by 1 guy. If sodium doesn't update you can fork it yourself and solve the problem without relying on a stranger anymore.

[@V972]

FINALLY SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT IT! THANK YOU!

[@Borapaws]

this is wild, thanks for creating a video about this! also hope your channel pops off, the quality is absurd. loved your "why is mojang so lazy" video so im happy this got in my recommended!

[@GSavel]

21:05 homestuck pfp detected

[@Dialindenial]

Undertale yellow pfp detected

[@theyellow432]

​@@DialindenialITS DALV UNDERTALE YELLOW!??!?!??!?!??!

[@LBoomsky]

I don't think anyone should own a mod (idea) that is just a general and qol feature. Optifine thrived off of being a hotspot for qol visual optimization features, so of course they would add popular features from other mods in their niche for the best player experience. If theres 2 cool visual optimization mods and the one I don't own adds a feature, I might as well add it myself. Not to mention i'm pretty sure back then mods couldn't be stacked... so the users of optifine would locked out of those features that are quite relevant to optifines niche if they didn't add them. (don't quote me on that) IF they were directly copying the code then that's a whole different thing, but simply using the same file path id say that is actually better for resource pack developers rather than a controversial thing. And the fact that they copied the explanations of the features from mcpatcher word for word when they are designed to function exactly the same, its lazy but not immoral. Plagiarizing the tutorial wording on how to use a mod when your mod is intent to implement the features of said another mod is just goofy, but at the end of the day its not compatible with copying the code, and that's a very important distinction. This comment was made by the optifine apologetic community thank you for your time.

[@isaacplorins6652]

The funniest part is that optifine STILL hasn’t updated for 1.21

[@lpfan4491]

It has. And it sucks, it is still playing catchup. To be entirely fair, the replacement mods are not perfect either, Sodium is still cleaning up transparency sorting issues. But the goofy part being that Optifine 1.21 preview versions launched with a wack issue that swaps around colorvalues. The game having wrong colors is something one sees literally right away. 😂

[@1e1001]

i will say as an optifine hater, the file formats being the same is not something to complain about. like even outside of minecraft modding, things will share the same implementations of things all the time. should we get angry at the fabric connected texture mods as well for copying mcpatcher? should we get angry at openssl for copying the same protocol as windows' ssl code? no lol, there's enough other things to get angry at optifine (like not mentioning mcpatcher as much as they should, or being closed source / for profit) that "tries to be compatible with an existing mod" shouldn't be one of them imo standards exist for a reason, if mcpatcher creates a standard i see no reason that other implementations of the same features shouldn't be able to use the same standard

[@Tinkerer_Red]

this was well researched, i've always been curious about what happened to mcEdit, subscribing in hopes to see more like this.

[@randydator4848]

Wow, this video is incredible well done, amazing job :D Can't believe the channel is so small, this could easily be some 500k youtube channel in terms of quality. Good shit youtube for this recommendation :D

[@KrisFRunes]

21:03 no matter what i do it follows me i can no longer escape homestuck

[@olly123451]

Using "More Gun" at 8:50 when talking about Optifine copying the files from MCPatcher 1-1 is incredibly funny when you consider that 'More Gun' is almost a 1-1 copy of "Someone Else's Song" by Wilco. It's not even known if Valve ever got permission to do this, they just kinda did it.

[@intelchip_x86]

The irony is so thick you could use it to make steel.

[@berylsoc]

I was thinking that this video deserves more views & subs and I checked your channel and saw the chunkbase problem video is also yours. so yes, you definitely deserve more views n subs

[@ImmortalLav]

Always a good day when i see a new upload. The vibes really are Hbomberguy but minecraft

[@justwobert9850]

diy mcpatcher 1.21 might be a fun project to make at some point

[@miguelanjo2776]

this is good. like an hbomberguy video. good

[@creacowo]

Incredible video, very insightful. I was totally unaware of the situation and this video is the only reason I know about it. I feel disgust using Optifine.

[@DarkChaosMC]

27:57 why did you cut before it hit the corner

[@V972]

19:05 "Most people outside of the community didn't really pay attention until it was too late" Oh my god it hits so close it hurts. And not just about OF, a good few things too.

[@Fixti0n]

I first learned of all the scum about OF when i heard rumors of Mojang reaching out to SP to get a few of his features into the base game, and perhaps a job there. But then he wanted an unreasonable compensation so the whole thing got scraped. Combined with the fact that it no longer plays nice with other mods, and the fact that the Sodium family of mods now is a thing, i dont see a reason to support Optifine.

[@saaaaaaaaalt838]

This needs way more recognition than it has. This is such a grandiose injustice that I can't fathom how this is such an unknown thing.

[@witext]

i was kinda sad when i switched to sodium cuz i held optifine in such high regard but I realise now that i shouldn't have, glad i switched now

[@michaelwashboard2323]

Ironically, I have more familiarity with MCPatcher than Optifine because I jumped from Bedrock, to modded versions of Java Beta 1.7.3- though I haven't played it much. Open formats are legitimately awesome, but "cornering the market" with your privatized weaker version helps no one. Just imagine if the PNG format was just taken by some individual who tried to take credit for it, then poorly implementing it- then extensions like APNG (animated PNG) and MNG (multiple image PNG) wouldn't exist.

[@theaureliasys6362]

15:41 you cut away just mere frames away from the logo hitting the corner, you sicko. ^^

[@sparrrorow]

act I humble beginnings, act II stealing, act III age of prosperity and now. act IV - a quiet fall from grace, no fanfare, simply fizzling out. this is how optifine ends, not with a bang but with whimper

[@DBTDerpbox]

I'm so glad over the past few years people are finally ditching optifine, it's such a nightmare to work with as a modder due to it being closed source and still patching the game directly, which NOBODY else does anymore in modern mc I've always wondered why so refuses to open source optifine given how much it could help out with its development and making modders more willing to work with it, and im wondering if mcpatcher is related to why

[@MasterNox]

Man I haven't thought about Mcpatcher in forever. You've brought back memories haha