Orcs and Goblins Tribes List Building Strategy | Warhammer the Old World | Deep Dive

[@MrForsaken5]

this may be the best Greenskins deep dive on the internet. Thanks boys.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Arcane Journal coming up next week we reckon!

[@cameronblume5108]

I listened to this on the podcast, but I came here just to leave a comment about how awesome this episode was. I’m an orcs and goblins player who has been poring over the book for a month, and I still learned a lot from this. I hope you do these for every army!

[@getorix1]

Submarine noise is perfection

[@7nineofspades5]

Magic Armour restrictions are limited to access to Armour (No sub-types mentioned) and Shields. If you start with or can buy any kind of armour, you can buy all the Magic Armour sub-types. You need to have or be able to buy a shield to buy a magic shield.

[@matthowleymusic]

This

[@wargamereric9929]

LISAN AL-GAIIIBBB Also stuck in my head.

[@snubbull7309]

With trolls if you take Great Weapons it has the added bonus of being Armour Bane 2 in addition to AP-2, the trolls come with a native 1 armour bane & then that stacks with the 1 armour bane you get from a great weapon because special rules like AB are cumulative

[@prlostinshadows]

❤❤❤❤ 3 hours is perfection. Thank you! DEEP DOIVEs can always be this long please

[@YetiLord]

I just want a collage of all these intros on loop.

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

Wow, that’s interesting. The intros make me extremely uncomfortable. I enjoy the show though.

[@TheWalkinDude]

Glad to see a deep dive on the Orcs and Goblins! Waaagggh!

[@Hebwastaken]

Submarine noises get an instant like

[@nogurus4260]

At 39 minutes the discussion comes up about purchasing magic armors. I can understand the argument that you need to be able to purchase a mundane armor to upgrade to the magic equivalent but there a ton of instances of factions having plate armor in there magic item list that no model in the list would be able to purchase. VC and Beastmen, just off the top of my head, both lack access to mundane plate armor for their characters but have a magic item that is Plate armor that no one would be able to purchase based on that interpretation of the rules.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Genuinely appreciate these examples to argue back. This was something that popped up on another show, and I've had some back and forths talking it out since.

[@dominicjaquin4780]

This rule interests me greatly, and how this works will probably effect orcs and goblins quite a bit. I've been wanting to give armor of Mork to a goblin boss on gigantic spider, but goblins only have access to light armor. My interpretation of the rule is that if you can wear armor then you can wear any grade of magic armor. I think this rule is mainly to prevent mages from wearing armor and using shields unless they're intended to wear armor, such as the chaos dwarf sorcerer prophet

[@searle_harbour]

it was a strange take to me as ive played 4 editions of fantasy where having to buy mundane armour before magic was never even a thought. and also reading the rule it says a model has to be able to buy (or already be equipped with) armour, a shield or barding in order to purchase magic ones. so a shaman couldnt buy magic armour or a shield. BUT other character that have access to ANY armour could purchase ANY armour was my take from this. the catagorys are "armour, a shield or barding" and not "light, heavy, full plate, a shield or barding"

[@iJasko]

I read it as@@searle_harbour, it's only the three broad categories. If you can equip any kind of mundane armour, you can equip any kind of magic armour. Same with the other two (even though there isn't even any magic barding, not even for Bretonnians).

[@anglecynn927]

Having to purchase and have access to the the mundane items before you can purchase the enchantment is a 9th Age thing, maybe people are getting mixed up? WFB has always been self contained magic items, ie you don’t have to have the mundane items.

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

I really appreciate how passionate you both are about this game, it really comes across and that's so awesome to see. Thanks for all the hard work going into these episodes.

[@Gearoidmacgiolla]

Absolutely love the DEEP DOIVE. I know it’s already long, but would love to get you two spending 30 minutes at the end banging out some archetype lists. For new folks like myself, seeing a sample list would be so useful

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Just make that another video for sure

[@Bog_Dog]

Killing me how long I’ll likely have to wait for a Dark Elves Deep Doive !! Still, can learn from each factions one I suppose hahaha, maybe I’ll find my second army while I’m at it. Great content guys, I like the mix of you having some form of structure to the discussion, but still the pod casty chat, ye both know a lot so the discussions at random always touch on good points I find. The MTO stuff that was shown for Orc and Goblin Tribes tempted me greatly to go for them as the follow up to Dark Elves, there seems like so many fun thematic fluffy stuff going on for them as well as really solid pieces to assemble a force from.

[@nurglematthew]

So nice, we watch it twice or tres!!

[@Benshooman]

ORCS AND GOBS LIST BUILDING EPISODE?! WHAT IS IT, CHRISTMAS?!!

[@louisraphael1727]

Nice! Haven't watched it yet but deep dives are always cool

[@walterbischoff8947]

Great deep dive. Awesome that you spend so much time on an army. Kudos.

[@mrripgiblet9510]

1 thing you guys got wrong. The doom diver when it has line of site you can move it by d3" in any direction, so you can use it on a hit to move over and put the center on top of characters in a unit. And you can use it if it scatters to scatter further if there is a target there etc.

[@OverlyCynicalPirate]

I'm conjuring up a spider-themed goblin-only army right now, and this is the perfect video for me right now! Great work as always boys.

[@alexmadrigal9703]

FOINALLEEE, a deep DOIVE. Can't wait for the rest of these, good job, boys.

[@ohthreefiftyone]

The title and thumbnail make me excited to watch this video in pieces over the next couple days.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

its beefy for sure

[@ohthreefiftyone]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld It is and thanks for putting in the effort you guys do. I'm planning for an orcs and goblins force to be my first Warhammer army.

[@davidbell8236]

Best intro ever 😂 more sound effects please. Love the vids!!

[@davidoliver3528]

I think the Orc Warboss is the play with trolls combining with Warband enhanced leadership, that 10ld on stupidity is so much better to have than the 9 on Black Orc Warboss

[@davidmarksberry5970]

I dont play but its always a good listen and i enjoy your enthusiasm.

[@TobyGilham]

DEEEP DOIVE

[@tylerhamil7004]

I love your guys’ army overviews and walkthroughs. They are funny and entertaining while also addressing competitive play. I know it’s been done a million times, but I’d love to see your take on Bretonnia.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

It will be done

[@nklinef]

One thing I'm not seeing anyone talking about yet, is taking Allies. The obvious choice for this being Night Goblins. For 500 points, you can easily fit in 2 bricks with characters and nets and fanatics! Maybe even also fit in in some spider riders or a war machine or a mangler squig?

[@nklinef]

In particular I'm looking at Brayherds suddenly being able to take warmachines, a possibly second lvl4 wizard for cheap that brings WAAAGH magic(that compliments beasts beautifully), and even cheaper anvil units that can actually hold better than ungor to compliment the Beasts' multitude of excellent hammers and the best screening units in the game.

[@searle_harbour]

55:15 you touched on fall back in good order letting you reform, i cant see anywhere were it says you can redress the ranks to form a big line though, only go from one formation to another.

[@7nineofspades5]

When you FBIGO you get to reform not redress. Technically you're Fleeing but with an auto-rally afterwards, when rallying you get to reform. Reforming is still a manoeuver though, so models in the rallying unit can't move more than twice their Movement characteristic.

[@searle_harbour]

yeah thats what im saying, i cant see how you would be able to change from say a 5x4 to a 10x2 as its only a reform, not a redress when you rally. Re: 55:15 @@7nineofspades5

[@Fearschooll]

Do Chaos Dwarfs next!!! Love the content keep it up.

[@zergstirfry]

Seconded!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Probably will

[@ChazCharlie1]

​@@SquareBasedOldWorldNo, do Warriors of Chaos!

[@Ceetvair]

I like this, but I would have preferred to get all the army overviews of the main and legacy armies before we start diving deep

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Separate streams my friend. Robbo is the content pipeline for the overviews : ) More to come!

[@danbyer4764]

Looks at 3 hour video length. Looks at clock reading 11:54pm. The decision probably isn’t supposed to be this hard.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Take it in stages brother

[@mortenbrandtjensen6470]

I loved to hear you chat about orcs & goblins. This will likely be my go to guide for O&G for a long while. For a deep dive I would have loved to hear something about how much you can buff frenzied savage orc big uns with spears. Especially compared to black orcs and trolls. And maybe something about reliability vs total unreliability - that was covered in the chat about night goblins and squigherds.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

The issue is that savage orcs have zero survivability. I feel we tried to say that but maybe not enough

[@jacobdoiron2851]

Would love to get some episodes like this about other armies!

[@Iron_Wyvern]

Love these vids! Keep it up boys!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

We will!

[@lukevassh7740]

Os &Gs, baby, let's go!!! 🤘

[@blastbeatpie3239]

WAAAAAAGH! Just here to say that I really enjoyed this DEEP DOIVE, but also that Stone Trolls are also Ld5 over Ld4 of the other Trolls. Not sure if it makes a huge difference, but it wasn't picked up in the video :)

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

I’m really looking forward to the Chaos Warriors episode. At this point I’ll only have time for one Old World army so I gotta get this right.

[@michaelf.7339]

Great video, can't wair for the Empire deep dive!

[@TheShweeble]

Deep doiving! Love listening to you guys. Looking forward to the Dwarf video. I'm having fun playing Old World. I've played only a handful of games, but I keep getting destroyed by dragons and I'd really love to hear your thoughts on how to deal with them as dwarfs except for "take max cannons and hope to hit". I totally get your and Val's examples of how you could neuter one with magic, but my stocky lads can't take any magic items from the big book and no mages for us as well

[@Willabrador]

I am so excited for this!!!!! My favourites:)

[@IceJoust]

THE RETURN OF THE ALARM! LET'S GOOOOOO

[@IceJoust]

Got held up and only just finished it, but wanted to say how much value I got out of this as a Non-Greenskin player; of nothing else I can work out a Game Plan for Val if I encounter him in the tall grass ;)

[@AdmiralMila]

Big blocks of Night Goblins armed with Shortbows and hiding Fanatics seem extremely scary to me. Being able to throw out huge amounts of shots with Volley Fire and then throwing the Fanatics at anything that comes close (even on their turn!) seems very hard to overcome, especially to me as an Empire player. Pretty much the only possible counter feels like throwing Mortars at them, which is unreliable at best.

[@Isjiek]

Great video, loving the deep dive discussions!! Any chance for a Skaven video? :)

[@questery]

Built a list for my brother with gobbos. I've chucked a bunch of trolls in as singles, for flank screens, and then one big anvil unit of 7.

[@Mr._A685]

Very good day today. Its Square based day!!!

[@themainstager]

Yess I can't wait for more deep dives, especially wood elves >:D

[@Squonkles]

Awesome vid as always, guys!

[@HughMurphy395]

Woody's being able to surround the fanatics with woods is one solution.

[@Lordvader1212]

Don’t forget the waaaghh banner also works with impetuous! Making it a bit of a debuff

[@bodboddington9367]

I picked up the Orc Batallion box as a start for Orcs. I will make them goblins work with skermishing and slapping my gobbo shammy in there. I am very exited for the chariots. I am putting great weapon, frenzy, warpaint big possess in them. One chariot from the boss, the other from the chariot! 😊

[@rdmths]

Marching Column cures both Impetuous and Frenzy. Just something to keep in mind.

[@LFpaints]

Absolutely top tier video, loved it.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Much appreciated!

[@jamesjones-pv7sl]

The thumb nail made me hype!

[@7nineofspades5]

2:33:30 You don't need to be the same sub-type to join a unit unless they're skirmishers. But Monstrous Infantry and Monstrous Cav have Clumsy, so you can't join them with a smaller character. You CAN put a Doombull in a unit of Ungor or Gor though for example (As long as they're in Open Order and not Skirmishing).

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Love that thankyou

[@iJasko]

Yeah came here for that, otherwise the diagrams on pages 207 and 208 would make no sense.

[@davidoliver3528]

on the spider riders, the rider and the spider have poisoned attacks, the low ws isnt that big of an issue because they're just after those 6s

[@GravesAlec]

Im confused regarding the numbers of troops in the Night Goblin units, is it 29 standard troops 'including 1 standard bearer' and an addtional boss to make 30? making 5 ranks of 6 (I understand the 3 fenatics arent within the unit)

[@fimpen546]

As an avid Dark elf player since 6th edition, my answer to hordes of units have always been witch elves. 3 high initiative poisoned attacks each (2hw+frenzy) they mangle through low armour units, which is what horde units tend to be. Even with them not having WS5 anymore, they're probably still quite suitable to that role. And I'd imagine that most armies have a similar choice of unit with many attacks (though maybe not the poison, which helps tremendously) Will they be able to mangle their way through a unit of 50 gobbos? doubtful. But they'd take a large chunk out for sure. And they're a flanking unit, so would not be charging the front unless necessary. Disrupt those ranks and run them down.

[@iJasko]

The Fungus Wine roll on "their OWN leadership" still means modified LD with Warband though, right? Cause otherwise it's a roll on a 6 at best.

[@schlatta-dirtydeeds9351]

Fungus Wine is weird, because it's basically "pass a leadership test to automatically pass a leadership test"

[@nurglematthew]

This is the way!! Orks and Gobbosz!!! Grot Ganga!!!

[@MrLordi27]

Orcs*

[@nurglematthew]

Orcs!

[@Adler87]

@@MrLordi27 Orks is also fine. I don't think that orcs will see the difference in the spelling. ;)

[@zergstirfry]

Grot gang!

[@georgesutherlandhoward4417]

I'm gonna try something out in a practice game (1,250 pts) today: 9 Wolf riders in skirmish formation with bows and Reserve Move, accompanied by a Black Orc Big Boss on Boar. The Riders move out away from the boss, shoot, and then Reserve Move back to within 6" of the boss. I'm not sure if they'll make their points back directly, but if I can use them to threaten the back line and lone Wizards and tie up my opponent's Chariot, then I think they'll have done their job.

[@GhostGuitars]

absolute banger, guys!

[@mattbridges385]

lol damn it I got trolled, scrolling through my feed And thought Jeremy sedekis was playing some warhammer with you haha

[@pugthedog]

Nice deep doive guys. Is this coming to the podcast feed?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Just published! And we have a couple episodes to catch up there as well : )

[@pugthedog]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld thank you guys that’s the main way I listen to your excellent cintent

[@matthewpurling5179]

So a Black Orc unit measures 6” from the unit to quell but what happens when a Black Orc character in a orc unit. Do you measure from the character or the unit itself joined?

[@Willabrador]

My night goblins have been knocked off the board by cavalry with first charge. I have taken stubborn on them for a FBIGO but still counts as flee so have leapt off the board 😂. Always having fun with them!

[@Willabrador]

Negates warband and drops my leadership

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I found sometimes T4 is massive on orcs. I did some TTS test games and my night gobbos melt under for examle gyro spam. Orcs not so much. They dot care about S3 tremplates or bombs, even 6 of them.

[@Iron_Wyvern]

Can a deep dive like this be done for Beasts of Chaos next? 😁

[@kingwiku9735]

Please Deep Dive the Chaos Dwarf list!

[@matthowleymusic]

Where are you seeing that you cant join light infanty with a heavy infantry character ? Theres a picture example of exactly that happening on p207. In the trolls case the reason characters cant join them is because they have the clumsy speacial rule (in the monstrous infantry section)

[@piotrskodowski7544]

Dwarf cav is gurocopters that are borderline broken for 60p

[@shawndavies2204]

On the reserve move, I think it's common sense that characters move as the unit does. Characters don't have to pay for drilled, yet specifically says a unit doesn't lose drilled. Also nowhere does it say, a unit lose it's abilities if joined by a character. Otherwise you'd lose, Shield wall, or stubborn (which you don't) or frenzy.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

It's super unclear right now. But like Vanguard for instance was ruled in the FAQ to just leave the character behind in the dust lol. So idfk

[@shawndavies2204]

​@@SquareBasedOldWorld Oh GW you so funny. I think you are very correct mate, the answer may be that there are so many rules it's difficult to pack them all concisely into a rules set like this. So you get contradictions like Drilled it's OK, you keep the rule; Vanguard and it's not ok. On pg205 this paragraph almost nails it. So it's the first line, should it read?? : A character that has joined a unit adopts the FORMATION "special rules" of that unit. Anyway it's the usual mess from GW LOL you have to chuckle. On pg205 Character models rarely have any FORMATION special rules. Instead: • A character that has joined a unit adopts the FORMATION of that unit. • A Lone character (see page 206) is always considered to be in a Skirmish formation. • A character mounted on a ridden monster or chariot adopts the formation of

[@nashpainting]

Listening to 2 men talking about how much they like huge choppaz is always stimulating! 🤣

[@CorporalTunnel]

A Deeeep doive for O&G? Christmas came early

[@arrakisdune7411]

Have you done a tombkings and brets review?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Not to this extent, but an overview will be coming some day.

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

Impetuous and frenzy are not an issue on movement 4 units. Those units were already going to charge anything they could 90% of the time because they so rarely get to charge. It’s only a kick in the balls on movement 6 and higher. A black orc boss on a boar in a boar rider unit flanked by chariots is auto include for me. He keeps everything fast and hard hitting in the area in check.

[@vodrake]

I don't believe there is a rule preventing different sub types of units joining one another. Or indeed different types in general. For example you could have a Heavy Cav character join a unit of Regular Infantry. I think it may restrict things with skirmishers. However characters have a hard time joining Mounstrous units (both Infantry and Cav) as they have the Clumsy special rule which prevents characters from joining unless they also have it.

[@TheRobstien]

I also was trying to find this rule. Even in rule book there’s a pic of a cav guy in a block of infantry.

[@shaambruet]

So how about an all savage orcs lists? Uncontrollable glass canon or microwaved garbage?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I mean it might be fun to just send it

[@shaamjuice]

I'm printing 60 two hand weaponned savage orcs lets go. I'll keep you posted.

[@chitzkoi]

What goblin riders deserve is WS3 and to lose Impetuous. The fact we get both those things in the Chaos Dwarf list is only offset by the fact they're a Rare choice.

[@iJasko]

Those are Hobgoblins, though. They also have completely different USRs too.

[@chitzkoi]

@TheDishWasher Right, but even skaven are base WS3 in TOW. As the lads suggest, even with bows, greenskin light cavalry is in a terrible place when you stick it with Impetuous, low hero LD *and* WS2

[@iJasko]

@@chitzkoi oh no question, they are definitely worse off than hobgoblin wolf riders. But tbf, the main problem is impetuous, I’m not sure WS3 would be enough to mitigate that.

[@chitzkoi]

@TheDishWasher yeah with impetuous and WS3 they're still kamikaze who will do little of use. A version of impetuous that allows goblins, who are not as brave as the rule requires them to be, to satisfy a failed check by making a forced ranged attack would work in my view

[@davidoliver3528]

wolf riders are excellent screen for chariots, chariots can charge through them with chariot runners special rule. Black orc big boss on chariot is a great take, takes away the impetuous on the wolf riders

[@emcdunna]

It seems kind of sad to me that night goblins and black orcs are so superior to the other types. Will we ever see regular orcs on the table? Do you think it's a bad thing that the grand army roster let's you specialize this much (black orcs as core) with seemingly 0 downsides?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Remember ... we're sweaty. We tend to really focus in on the "best in slot" or best choices. Top choices are not the ONLY choices, they're just hard to ignore. I think there's a ton of space to (once we're all bored of winning with Black Orcs and Night Gobbos) just remove those options and then have a lot of fun making lists with the rest of the roster. I'd bet there's still tons of good to be had.

[@henricandersson6340]

I think a Shaman on Arachnarok is worth 475 points. 360 vision. The best Waagh spells is cast before charge. (Itchy nuissance for instance.) Hand of Gork or Mork on himself gets on average 7” plus base extra movement. Around 13” + regular 14” marching and move through cover. 27” first turn? On average 19.5 attacks? Shaman 2 Crew 8 Spider 6+D6 Crew has -1 så on charge Spider has 5 no Ap 1 with -2 D6 Damage D6 Thunderstomp with -2 Ap The trick in My mind to not get stuck in combat, but how hard can that be with 19,5 attacks ALL poisonus?

[@Benshooman]

Did you guys cover boar boys?

[@thezeevy]

Would like to point out...the trollhide trousers dont need to be from a dead troll. Trolls regenerate. Its common because every tribe has a troll that just gets skinned every once and a while and the shamans make some pants.

[@thezeevy]

Other point...the casters dont have impetuous but all their mounts do

[@YouTubeuser6294]

Fanatics, cast a dangerous terrain template in front of the gobbos they release and hope for the best

[@kellyhoesing2573]

Can my Orc Warboss wear multiple pairs of Trollhide Pants since they're extremely common?

[@schlatta-dirtydeeds9351]

Yes! One for each leg!

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I actually prefer stones trolls to river trolls. Magic rez 1 is suprisingly relevant against ruby ring that is most often a thing people like to throw at them to strip a lot of wounds at no regen on top of that sones have 5 Ld. one pip do not seem like much but if something happens to the general that makes them that more likely to actually do anything.

[@davidm.corbin4643]

ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS. Bret player, but I might do Orcs and Gobos later

[@piotrskodowski7544]

With open order I tend to move my snotling and pivot them so they face away form the enemy, and than ipetiouocity is not an issue. So what if they are charged in flank. It is not like aditional 5 WS 2 S2 attacks really matter. And ythey are unbrekable either way so combat res do not matter. And frakly even things like elite cav will not kill them in one turn.

[@vex1561]

Based on the armour interpretation, people will be arguing that it isn't clear that models can take trousers.

[@JesseDiMauro]

My other chariot is a mangler squig.

[@Lordvader1212]

So your girlfriend designed the map, and didn’t get given one?! That’s crazy! Would have thought they would give the designers a copy!

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I want to love Arachnarok as well. But man is he overcosted. He suffers from doing many things but very few doing good. He would be good for 60-70 points less for my taste. And yes they combine wounds with character. I tried goblin shaman general. This mean his aura from waaagh is frigging 18" on top of this big base, basically entire army.

[@FFSMatt]

Glowey Green Amulet best magic item.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

You are the best magic item

[@shawndavies2204]

I was surprised you don't want to put characters in units. Both strategies IMO will be workable and just as successful. Depending upon the dice gods of course.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Characters yes, wizards its a question

[@shawndavies2204]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld You're right, if you don't have a plan behind how you are going to use your wizard in the front rank of a unit. Don't do it. So far my Wizards have done rather well in the front ranks.

[@SquidFisT44]

DIOVE!

[@LawL_LawL]

Feel like cavalry spears on the Hoppers are an inconsequential luxury at best, a waste of points at worst. The main course coming out of Hoppers are all of those attacks from the Bounder Squigs, preferably on the charge; the Impact Hits are a decent side too. The piddly little attacks from the riders are a sad, WS2-flavoured garnish, and tacking on cav spears does very little to really change that. The Boss on the other hand at least provides one buff not to be overlooked: meatshielding against a character that hits before you, even on the charge. Strikes First, Counter Charge, or just insanely high base Initiative from any character with some combat ability has a real chance of one-shotting an entire unit of these goofy goobers before they get to do anything. The Boss is at least insurance for the rest of your guys to get their hits in before the unit inevitably explodes, and he does that for about as many points as giving spears to a unit of these guys. Not to mention his one extra attack is probably statistically close enough to what value you get from the spears, or close enough that his other benefits tacked on make the Boss a clear winner. Shave the spears off two of these units and you have enough points to buy something somewhere, potentially a lot more consequential than cav spears on Hoppers. Idk, in a game of small margins and endless list-building opportunities, see what you can do with even 10pts saved from the cav spears. Hell, scrounge TWO more points from somewhere, or just have that lying around, and you get an extra guy in one of these units instead.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

This was a little while ago now - but I did actually arrive at this exact conclusion at some point. By the time I played that list in a GT they were fully stripped down and only featured the boss as you recommend. 10/10 review of the review ; ) - Val

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@5:00 Wrong. You can mitigate impetuous with Marching Column. Can't declare a charge if in Marching Column, so don't do the test. Also, can block your own impetuous units with non-impetuous ones, like night goblins and trolls. Can't declare a charge if you can't see through the enemy. Also can block LoS with spells like CoC from Illusion for again the same reason.

[@iikkakangas2586]

whats the verdict on wearing multiple 'eadbutting hats?😅