Warhammer 40,000 KILL TEAM - Hivestorm is GO!

[@VeeeeryyyFaaaastSlooooth]

I love how the packing cardboard is much thicker than all the cardboard boxes.

[@JamesWilson1979]

Reposition is the correct term in military movement during a fire fight. Immersion is maintained.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Yes sir, 5 by 5, in the pipe, immersion maintained! For those of us not military geeks however ... 🤣

[@mayofrench5170]

I agree with your opinion on the box. I also use the higher quality boxes for storage. I use them to keep my terrain collection sorted.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Indeed, I do the same with some of those solid ones like the Nachmund and Age of Sigmar terrain boxes.

[@dwarrenmsp]

I'm buying into Kill Team with Hivestorm as my first GW game. I've been primarily a Marvel Crisis Protocol player. I'm excited to get it and personally I'm going to sell the Aquilons and keep the Stingwings. I already have the Navy Breachers and Brood Brothers and painting another group of "human" troops just didn't do it for me. I'll probaby try to get some Eldar or Dwarves.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Cool! Always interesting to hear from people getting into Kill Team for the first time.

[@andylomerson2797]

Any chance you are going to be putting together a painting video? I would love to get my minis on the table too and yours look excellent. I’d love to follow along.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Sorry, I rarely do painting videos anymore - they just take too much time to make, they ruin the enjoyment of painting for me, and I felt I was just repeating the same techniques over and over. Check out some of my previous vids for general tips, pick some colours, and go for it! You don't need to follow someone's step-by-step instructions.

[@andylomerson2797]

@@EsotericOrderGamersTotally fair. I forgot to start my previous comment off with “Another great video, Peter!” Besides the box, you’ve got me excited to receive my copy in just a couple of weeks.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@andylomerson2797 Glad to hear it - and thanks!

[@wombatsteroids]

Tempted to pick up some of this terrain for Necromunda. You go through so many new releases, I'm always impressed by how much painting you get done, and it still turns out looking great!

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Thanks! And I get the games later than they do over the other side of the world, so I have less time to build and paint them ...

[@volcano3493]

Some of the terrain sprues were present in the Command & Recruit boxes from the last edition of 40K. Forces included were Necrons & SM.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@volcano3493 I missed seeing those.

[@voltage2773]

Always love your paint jobs. Looks really good.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Cheers, appreciate that! Never anything original paint-scheme-wise, but that allows me to finish them relatively fast.

[@DarkLadyMarie]

that terrain is shockingly similar to the terrain from Chalnath. Its the only terrain I own so I'd recognize it anywhere

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

They're ruined buildings, but they're different designs.

[@weatherthis8062]

Thanks for your review mate, agree with the box rant. If they are charging those kind of prices for these products, they should at least be packaged to suit. Anyway, awesome paint job on the Vespid 👍.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Thanks - they were fun to paint!

[@Helghast73]

I do wish GW would use neoprene mats for their game boards.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

I agree - though packing them might be a challenge ...

[@NicholasTurnerOZ]

@@EsotericOrderGamersthey did a run of neoprene mats, and they stuck them in rectangular boxes and suggested you give them a light iron to get rid of the fold lines from the way it was packed. Which wasn’t all that successful. Probably why we didn’t see further releases. 😉

[@wtfserpico]

I noticed the sharp drop off of box quality with Skaventide. My Into the Dark and Heart of Ghur boxes are solid and I love them. These new boxes are crap. Nothing like cutting quality while simultaneously raising prices... Edit: On a positive note, your paint jobs look great!

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

You're right - as I said, if it has to be lesser quality(which it shouldn't) on intermediate boxes so be it, but not on major releases. They've been sneaking in the lower quality, cheaper boxes and now they're used for everything. Thanks!

[@droppod101]

100% agree on the box!

[@adammeney8841]

Thanks for a great review Peter.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

You're welcome, and thanks for the thanks.

[@sapobar4788]

The best IS GONE: stats cards

[@lindgrenjonas]

I'm listening to this while painting Space Hulk. I have no interest in kill team at all but I have to admit that Peter's whingeing is soothing :) And yes, those boxes are an atrocity!

[@noprobllama9747]

Imagine if they kept the square, circle, and pentagon shapes for movement and renamed the 'move' term as 'reshaping'. 😅

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@noprobllama9747 nooooooooooo!!!!! 😱

[@ianhancock7112]

do have to love how generous is such a relative term with Games Workshop products

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Generous if you have no issue at all with spending NZ$400 then. 🤣

[@ianhancock7112]

Yeah though we had it rough in AU, NZD is something else

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@ianhancock7112 It never ceases to shock me ...

[@shinkicker404]

@@ianhancock7112so far from England u c, costs a lot to ship! /eyeroll. The AU and NZD tax on things is ridiculous.

[@GuyRiessen]

You can "repo your operative"....two syllables, short enough. Do it enough and you too can become The Repo Man

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

An 80s classic!

[@edin6128]

Later today, I have to reposition to the supermarket, to buy some stuff.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

🤣🤣🤣

[@ianhancock7112]

ISS Vanguard is amazing, I hope it actually gets to the table on occasion :)

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

One day ... when I have time ... the Esoteric Order of Gamers eats up so many of my spare hours!

[@ianhancock7112]

@@EsotericOrderGamers I just finished off the core campaign with my nine year old daughter, it's a very immersive and accessible experience (if a pretty chunky time commitment). That all being said, I greatly appreciate the work you do mate- I've been benefitting from your exceptional work since Descent first edition 🥝

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@ianhancock7112 Well thanks - don't forget to check out Tabletop Codex, you sound like just the kind of person who'd find it handy!

[@ianhancock7112]

@@EsotericOrderGamers already there :)

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@ianhancock7112 Excellent!

[@DJDadJoke]

Haven't read the rules fully, but is it possible that the "move" action was renamed to "reposition" so that both repositioning and dashing could be defined as moving? That way they wouldn't have to have rules that say "whenever an enemy model ends a movement action or dash action within X of a model you control, do Y"? They could just say "Whenever an enemy model ends a move action within X of a model you control, do Y." I know that's why Marvel Crisis Protocol calls the move action "advancing" because then web swings and teleports can be defined as "placement," but both count as "moving."

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

That's a far more measured and intelligent analysis than my emotional response. 🤣 Sure - but is it really worth the change? We've all got by very comfortably calling such things move actions for many decades now ...

[@johnbeaudoin7820]

I’ve been a Kill Team tournament organizer throughout this edition, and the above explanation is 100% correct. Some special abilities referred to situations where models moved, and a typical hurdle with new players was drawing a distinction between using the “Move” action, and the model physically ending up somewhere other than where it started. It wasn’t the end of the world with English publications, but I heard this issue was exponentially worse amongst translations of the books into other languages (with Kill Team being as popular as it is in mainland Europe, especially Spain, it was a common issue). As clunky as “Reposition” sounds, I’m personally glad for the change. We can agree on the flimsy box, though!

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Interesting. I've been playing these kinds of games for decades so I must admit it's hard for me to get into the head of a beginner, though it does seem to me an easy distinction to pick up (in all the time I've played minis games I've never once thought it was an issue). Of course I can understand that might be different for non-English speakers. But 'reposition' - it's so clunky - even 'advance' would have been better. At least the sentence 'advance towards the nearest operative' actually makes sense... I sympathise with the Germans ... "neu positionieren" - argh! 😆

[@psz5515]

The argument that "a person moves, a gamepiece repositions" doesnt not make any sense. No one person in the whole world says they're repositioning a game piece. A soldier in a firefight repositions, a game piece gets moved. Its a good change because previously it was unclear to a lot of new players when the rules refer to "move" as an action and when as a characters move value. It was confusing that they both had the same name and it made rules unnecesarily long in some places because they had to specify which move they're talking about.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

A few people have made some good arguments why they prefer the change, and I respect those reasons. But I do tend to think that the move action is a convention we've had in wargaming for decades, and while the new term may fit military jargon and be extremely specific, it seems an unnecessary change to me. But there's room for all opinions on this - it won't spoil my gaming. 🤣

[@Griffonbait]

Just one thing about your presentation of the topic: Why do you even bother calling it a "whinge" about the packing box quality? You _know_ GW has been inconsistent with this right back since the 1980s. Rather than call it a whinge, tell us you are disappointed about the box quality, and advocate for the use of those top quality boxes we love to see for these expensive games. Keep up with the great work you are doing for this hobby. Thank you for the video.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

I don't quite understand what you're saying - do you have some problem with the word whinge? Or is there some cultural miscommunication going on here? Everyone has different ways of expressing themselves, and as an Australian my way may be different than yours. The bottom line though is that I am disappointed and am pushing for GW to use better quality materials.

[@irishmadcat]

Disagree with the reposition renaming. Dash is also a move as is charge

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

That's fine, it's all just a matter of preference. I can see the logic now, I was just happy with the precedent of many years (and all those syllables!). But perhaps us oldies must *reposition* on! 🤣

[@irishmadcat]

@@EsotericOrderGamers I mean I am in my forties. The thing is when the rules said you can't move did they mean move move or any move. Reposition could maybe have been walk however.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@irishmadcat You're still bloody young from where I'm standing! 🤣

[@mikeadams3722]

Fantastic review, as always 🙂. I pretty much agree with all your comments. In my skirmish games, I always refer to "fighters", I hate the word "operative". But not as much as I hated the coloured symbols, so glad they came to their senses on that one! Re. the box, I think it depends on the type of product, e.g. I hate the flimsy box for Dark Tide because that's one where I will store everything in the box, but with Kill Team the terrain and minis simply aren't going to fit back in the box, and therefore once they are built the box isn't really needed, is it? I still agree though, it feels a bit cheap.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

I keep almost all my boxes - well, certainly the first set for each edition.

[@bradp6452]

Kill team 2021 was very special rules heavy for the real teams. This seems the same. Not stoked about the price increase on all the existing factions. I was interested in getting the brood brothers for my assorted genestealer cults but they are like 75 dollars for 10 human models.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Another disappointment - taking the opportunity to increase the prices of the old teams. Grrrr!!

[@kevinakos7059]

Could not agree more about the box quality. There is no reason other than greed that these boxes are so flimsy. You can get games a quarter of this price with amazing quality boxes.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Ah, but GW gets to save 3 cents a box! Grrrr ...

[@wolfie54321]

Thanks for the video! My biggest question.... how badly are the rules written? Are they an arduous read or have they improved their mastery of the English language to make it a bit more streamlined?

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

The rulebook is still pretty bad IMHO. Engage/conceal, cover and LOS are all a bit clearer, but in general it suffers from the "to make this a lot clearer I'm actually going to make it more verbose and complicated" syndrome. They've also thrown most of the rules into an alphabetical appendix which is very lazy rules writing in my opinion.

[@wolfie54321]

@@EsotericOrderGamers That's a bit of a shame. I find GW games really hard to get into because none of my gaming group has much free time so we favour games where we can buy the rules reasonably cheap and then read the rules in an hour or two... while GW games are written so painfully that they take a while to wade through before we can start playing games. Maybe if they release a cheaper starter set I might give it a go, not eager to buy a $390 starter set or even the $105 core book is pretty painful. If they do another ~$130 starter set with 2 teams and a small form factor rulebook like they did last edition that might interest me a bit more.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@wolfie54321 To be clear, the rules themselves are still pretty straightforward, and you will be able to read and digest them quickly. I was just referring to the way they were written and laid out in the rulebook. Kill Team is NOWHERE in the same league as the incredibly long-winded Horus Heresy and Legions Imperialis rulebooks, for instance.

[@wolfie54321]

@@EsotericOrderGamers Yeah that's fair, I know from your previous vids that's what you meant. I've just had trouble in the past with buying a poorly written 112 page rulebook and either never being able to read through it myself and/or I hand it to other people in the group and they never get around to reading it either, haha. 2nd edition Epic was a great game because you could read and understand the entire rulebook in about an hour, Aeronautica Imperialis is still poorly written but because the game is so simple it's still readable in about an hour also. Too many games my group has never gotten past the stage of "Did you read that rulebook?" "Nope, did you?" "Nope" "Okay, lets just play this other game then", haha.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@wolfie54321 Basically why I started making rules summaries - and now I've made 460 of them! 🤣

[@pinknekofire7289]

Ordered it~ Been wanting to get into Kill Team. Because AoS, Warcry, Battletech, Shadows of Brimstone, and 40k isnt enough lol😭

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

All games are different though aren't they? 🤣

[@danielmurray9482]

Never heard someone complain so much about cardboard before 😂 I'm guessing you've never heard of inflation that's why it's cheaper cardboard, also prices of the resin Increase, so would you complain if they used better cardboard and then hyped the price up 😂

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Oh no, poor little GW can't cover the cost of slightly more expensive cardboard in their existing prices because of inflation? 🤣 They're hardly working with really tight margins are they? They're cutting corners but still charging a premium. I choose to not be pleased about the fact that we're getting less for more. If you're content with getting lower quality for the same extremely high prices, I'm happy for you.

[@THX-to6gg]

I’m sticking to Shadow War Armageddon!

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Excellent! You and - well probably very few people really, but good on you! 😀

[@LordTechnopants]

In the UK this is £145. If I get it from where I usually shop online it's £116. £116 for a nice-looking set that is dumped in a box that is about equivalent to the box that came with the Aldi pizza we had today. I'm going to say no frankly. The price is just too far north of £100 for the lack of regard for the customer that GW is bent on as policy now. I'll always watch your GW content Peter, but I've become very selective about what I buy and GW is set on making my FOMO a thing of the past. Unless they 'reposition', I'm still out. Will there be a turning point?

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

I see what you did there 🤣 BTW it's about NZ$414 here (£194)...

[@LordTechnopants]

@@EsotericOrderGamers £194!!! Don't upset GW with your box snobbery sir! I bet (and it shows) you really appreciate this stuff being sent. Much deserved.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

@@LordTechnopants I certainly do appreciate it, after a lifetime of buying my own GW stuff - but that won't stop me being honest in my opinions! 😁

[@stevebarnett-f5o]

I agree, having retired, I have to buy sparingly, and GW is now such a rip off.

[@kudosbudo]

another flimsy box from gw?.. its so off putting. i find it annoying to have to shore up all their boxes recently.

[@TheKid_88]

Why so salty all the time?

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Gee, your definition of 'salty' is very ... tame. 🤣

[@johnclarke25]

Great and interesting vid,look an interesting game.

[@EsotericOrderGamers]

Thanks!