Orientalism Demystified: Eastern insights on Western myths | Doha Debates Town Hall

How much influence can a 19th century European art movement really have on the modern Arab world? Orientalism, an aesthetic movement depicting the East by Western artists, was for some the only exposure to Middle Eastern and Asian cultures. Some, like Palestinian American scholar Edward Said, said that Orientalism pervades Western art, pop culture and journalism even today, revealing the same stereotypes of Arab cultures that were popularized some 200 years ago. Others argue that its influence-and even those stereotypes-requires a more nuanced interpretation.
From the roots of Orientalism to the role of museums in displaying Orientalist art, join students, recent graduates and speakers-curator Kholood Al-Fahad, author Fatima Bhutto and journalist Inaya Folarin Iman-as they deconstruct Orientalist narratives, the value of inclusion and the lasting impact of art.
This Doha Debates town hall was moderated by Dena Takruri, senior presenter and producer with AJ+, and produced in collaboration with Lusail Museum and VCUarts Qatar. This town hall was filmed in Doha, Qatar on November 14, 2023.
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00:01:04 Introduction to the town hall on Orientalism
00:01:39 What is Orientalism?
00:03:07 Edward Said's legacy
00:07:32 Introduction of panelists
00:08:35 What can an Orientalist painting tell us?
00:11:58 Are Orientalist stereotypes still persistent?
00:14:20 How do we engage with offensive art?
00:16:56 Personal stories of stereotyping and 'Othering'
00:26:50 Orientalism in media and journalism
00:34:20 Are we also stereotyping the West?
00:38:05 Cultural appropriation vs. appreciation: Where's the line?
00:47:25 Is all stereotyping inherently negative?
00:50:16 Museums and Orientalist art
00:51:29 What does decolonizing the arts entail?
01:04:18 How to maintain non-Western identity amid Western influences?
01:07:30 Should Orientalist art be displayed or contextualized?

[@salimi.sheriff7608]

Loving this

[@dirkhan74]

Marx says, "the ideas of the ruling class are, in any age, the ruling ideas". It's true for every dominant civilization/power of the time. There would be no justification for waging wars and plundering the resources of weaker people without first characterizing them 'barbaric' and dehumanizing them. Someone rightly said in the discussion that it's the soft power which leads to the use of hard power. Colonialisation of the world by European powers was the outcome of orientalism first and foremost

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

No, you’re reversing Marxism. Marx was a materialist. That means that first come the material conditions, the economy and so on, and then come the ideas and the ideology. Imperialism and colonialism came first (for economic reasons), racism and orientalism came afterwards as a justification.

[@SacClass650]

Grossly oversimplistic comprehension of history and colonization. Moreover, what do you think justified the Arab brutalizing the African?

[@samadali1424]

Great and brave Leader Fatima Bhutto sahiba ❤

[@NinjMMA]

58:00 Did the Lady forget about the Mongol empire ? Genghis Khan was no Gandhi

[@sidramir3211]

the lady literally stated at that time stamp ' all empire, at its core is interested in power & expansion.' Also at 59:00 goes on to say ' not that I'm excusing empire in any way.' I don't think she supports ANY empire but is making the point that the legacy of the European imperialist empires are so violent that regions that they impacted are still struggling to recover. That the European Colonial empires are among the absolute worst of ALL empires & empire of any kind seeks to exploit.

[@jrutt2675]

That Fatima Bhutto is completely off her rocker. The Ottomans never committed crimes? The Armenian Genocide was ruthless. Then there were plenty more in their history. The difference is the British defeated them!

[@trexy6237]

Which version of The Armenian Genocide? What really happened or what the Armenians claim in order to hide their own genocide and portray themselves as victims.

[@afaqanwar2500]

Very productive discussion

[@sidramir3211]

Kholood uses the word 'okay eh' way too much lol but bless her

[@ak02.9]

I know that this is not a malicious comment. Just wanted to note that English is not her first language, therefore she is using ‘okey’ as a filler phrase repeatedly and it is a common trait with non-native speakers, especially on a stage with an audience around.

[@sidramir3211]

@@ak02.9 Thank you for recognizing that it wasn't a malicious comment. I found it rather endearing actually that she did that. I understand the struggle of having to learn a second language & then communicate opinions very comprehensively in another language is not easy. As someone who is currently learning another language I fully understand and appreciate the need for ' filler' words

[@byebyebirdie8027]

I also noticed and was wondering if that's a filler word in the Qatari dialect. I'm an Arabic speaker myself but never heard it before.

[@arabicteacherforyou6109]

This platform is the result of success of Orientalism, the language you used and the clothes. they succeeded in making you feel that your language is not enough and your culture.

[@useRAJAN]

❤

[@AsokMandal-hn6tm190]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@HafsaR01]

The whole debate on the topic could just be summarized in a simple sentence of 'Tell the story as it is'. The weaponization of art is a fact. but it doesn't essentially mean we start the Decolonization of art or remove it entirely. We should not be trying to cheat history. Rather the idea is to tell the story as it is and let everyone perceive it from their own perspectives.

[@unknownpng650]

Whenever I watch talks like this one involving Muslim women with secular degrees "criticizing" the West i enjoy the irony of them using Western arguments, dressing in Western clothes, speaking in a Western language, and suggesting Western solutions,and i end by saying to myself, as if I'm asking them, Where is 'قال الله, قال الرسول'?"

[@jj-yi1ne]

they are criticizing the conservative west. they are benefitting off of the progressive west. they are not salafi

[@unknownpng650]

im not a salafi neither , im talking from a muslim pov , if anyone claims to be a muslim it means that his source of morality and how to live your properly comes first and firmost from the Quran and the prophetic tradition not the UN's chart or what Voltaire said @@jj-yi1ne

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

They’re against Western imperialism and orientalism; that doesn’t mean that they’re opposed to modernity or feminism or don’t want to live their lives as modern emancipated women. And the whole “orientalism” critique comes from Edward Said, who was an Arab and Palestinian, although to be fair he lived most of his life in the West.

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

@@unknownpng650 Religion is not able to shape society in the same way today as it did in the past. The modern world is fundamentally different. Modernity will fundamentally transform all traditional religions, including Islam. I don’t believe for a second this idea that the collapse of Western hegemony and the rise of multipolarity will strengthen the forces of traditionalism against “Western degeneracy” or whatever. On the contrary, I think the rise of multipolarity will accelerate the process of modernization in the non-Western world as they will be able to develop their economies free from Western exploitation. Islam will not be able to withstand the forces of modernization, and what it means to be a Muslim in the future will be fundamentally different from what it meant in the past. So I think the collapse of Western imperialism will accelerate secularization in the Muslim world.

[@samim4493]

@@ludviglidstrom6924 and Edward Said, the father of "Orientalism" was Christian Palestinian, not even Muslim.

[@philipdawes2661]

With all due respect, this is more of a choir preaching to itself rather than a debate. I was expecting a debate between differing views/interpretations, but there is consensus between all the participants.

[@sitdownstandup91]

its an echo chamber lol

[@OAInbox]

@@sitdownstandup91 The differing view is already prevalent in your culture! - this is was this panel was responding to!

[@Yannmoyy]

Oooooooooooooooo0

[@suleydaman]

Its hosted by Doha Debates but in the intro, she specifically calls it a Town Hall and a DISCUSSION

[@akashyadav-vs6lc]

हमें कोई

[@CrusaderZealot]

That European art is gorgeous.

[@ibtisamhtewek8899]

اتمنى لو كنت معكم ...على اساس مظلومين يانساء ملكات اليمين

[@mohammedislam7302]

If world want peace and stability everyone shoud stand aginst USA not with USA

[@elenascrolling]

Miss Iman was brilliant in this - she stuns with her critical view! A lot of the young ladies speaking had very balanced insights as well.

[@mickylejaye-ru6xl]

Hehe

[@MidnightEDJK]

Ghengis khan (Mongols), rome or the British empire were the biggest colonists....the u.s took the reigns of the British empire......but did it in a neocolonial way but still intertwined with capitalism.....neoliberalism and exploitation of the global south.

[@MidnightEDJK]

Obviously the use of media....and the reserve currency of the dollar matrix and therefore manipulative control has huge impact.....IMF debt traps and then restructuring policies...."world bank" ....council on foreign relations...... Wars.....coups......etc etc.....

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

Are the Qataris going woke? Only women, haha!

[@shrodingerscat4191]

Oh, good lord. These women have absolutely no perspective on history. This is very sad

[@soulsmouls]

Calm down, David Rosenstein.

[@ajayreddy8732]

Islam was the greatest colonist in history.

[@toobasheikh856]

And we are coming back. Just wait and watch.

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

@@toobasheikh856😂

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

No, they were not. The Europeans have been the greatest colonizers in history.

[@trexy6237]

That is an absolute lie.

[@ekaterinaponizovskayadevin2812]

What a BS they are talking about. A romantic interpretation of medieval European history was exactly the same and all that was accurate. Europe was the first that started breaking with the medieval (or barbaric past), The Middle East followed and sometimes actually resisted and tried to say in the past.

[@seamusdoherty]

I thought I was hearing things at times.

[@jj-yi1ne]

that never happened buddy

[@suleydaman]

That is orientalism

[@suleydaman]

When did Europeans break with barbarism? Was it after Holocaust? Or WWI where millions of men died, seems pretty barbaric to me. Apartheid? The spanish inquisition? Bengal famine which was man made? Or Iraq war? Or drone strikes? I used to be like Inaya just a couple of months ago. I have lots of respect for what's good in the West but there is a lot of bad as well.

[@suleydaman]

The sheer racism on display with regards to palestine issue lays bare the facade that the West cares about human rights. It is SHOCKING. I say this as a black man who defended the west to my pro-Black lives matter friends. I'd always try to focus on the positive when it comes to the West but looking past a genocide is too much for me