Orientalism Demystified: Eastern insights on Western myths | Doha Debates Town Hall

[@anthony19723]

Very enjoyable to watch this open discussion and carried out with such diverse opinions and truly exciting. Even though I'm a diehard Western Edward Said defender, I can enjoy so much that he would have enjoyed in this forum. We have to thank him for opening the discussions we are still having, and they are getting more interesting and thought provoking.

[@jrutt2675]

That Fatima Bhutto is completely off her rocker. The Ottomans never committed crimes? The Armenian Genocide was ruthless. Then there were plenty more in their history. The difference is the British defeated them!

[@trexy6237]

Which version of The Armenian Genocide? What really happened or what the Armenians claim in order to hide their own genocide and portray themselves as victims.

[@arabicteacherforyou6109]

This platform is the result of success of Orientalism, the language you used and the clothes. they succeeded in making you feel that your language is not enough and your culture.

[@aotforlife1346]

1:11:42 Proud to be your student sir. Wishing you the best of luck in all of your endeavors.

[@NinjMMA]

58:00 Did the Lady forget about the Mongol empire ? Genghis Khan was no Gandhi

[@sidramir3211]

the lady literally stated at that time stamp ' all empire, at its core is interested in power & expansion.' Also at 59:00 goes on to say ' not that I'm excusing empire in any way.' I don't think she supports ANY empire but is making the point that the legacy of the European imperialist empires are so violent that regions that they impacted are still struggling to recover. That the European Colonial empires are among the absolute worst of ALL empires & empire of any kind seeks to exploit.

[@elisinger4172]

The Moghuls never committed theft and violence. Yeah sure, Fatima.

[@kyleme9697]

Apparently they're not hearing/seeing the irony ... everyone in the West ... the West ... Western ... so everyone in the East is different, but everyone in the West is the same? edit ... 34:38 ... oh, Ms Iman is bringing this exact point up now, sort of.

[@bisexualskywalker]

I don't think it's ironic at all, I believe they are using the language utilized by orientalists to challenge orientalism. If you read Edward Said's book, he dissects this false dichotomy created for the sake colonization if we are honest. The East and The West, may be arbitrary, but they still have a definition that works in this context as a result of the world created by Colonialism.

[@HasnainUK2009]

Marx says, "the ideas of the ruling class are, in any age, the ruling ideas". It's true for every dominant civilization/power of the time. There would be no justification for waging wars and plundering the resources of weaker people without first characterizing them 'barbaric' and dehumanizing them. Someone rightly said in the discussion that it's the soft power which leads to the use of hard power. Colonialisation of the world by European powers was the outcome of orientalism first and foremost

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

No, you’re reversing Marxism. Marx was a materialist. That means that first come the material conditions, the economy and so on, and then come the ideas and the ideology. Imperialism and colonialism came first (for economic reasons), racism and orientalism came afterwards as a justification.

[@SacClass650]

Grossly oversimplistic comprehension of history and colonization. Moreover, what do you think justified the Arab brutalizing the African?

[@disdoncable]

And Islamic imperialism, expansion, and complete subjugation/annihilation of non-Muslims was the outcome of what exactly?

[@amuthi1]

Approximately 100 years after the second defeat of the Ottomans at Vienna the Europeans allowed themselves a more romantic view of the east and it's exotic contrast.

[@salimi.sheriff7608]

Loving this

[@sidramir3211]

Kholood uses the word 'okay eh' way too much lol but bless her

[@ak02.9]

I know that this is not a malicious comment. Just wanted to note that English is not her first language, therefore she is using ‘okey’ as a filler phrase repeatedly and it is a common trait with non-native speakers, especially on a stage with an audience around.

[@sidramir3211]

@@ak02.9 Thank you for recognizing that it wasn't a malicious comment. I found it rather endearing actually that she did that. I understand the struggle of having to learn a second language & then communicate opinions very comprehensively in another language is not easy. As someone who is currently learning another language I fully understand and appreciate the need for ' filler' words

[@byebyebirdie8027]

I also noticed and was wondering if that's a filler word in the Qatari dialect. I'm an Arabic speaker myself but never heard it before.

[@MohamedAbdellaouy]

There are twisted visions in the way we tend to think. the reality that are the Eastern live now due to the Western's false perceptions about those who considered as powerless and colonised, so the issue is still debatable. the question is, do they will perpetuate their malpractices or they will take some awareness about what happens?

[@samadali1424]

Great and brave Leader Fatima Bhutto sahiba ❤

[@HafsaR01]

The whole debate on the topic could just be summarized in a simple sentence of 'Tell the story as it is'. The weaponization of art is a fact. but it doesn't essentially mean we start the Decolonization of art or remove it entirely. We should not be trying to cheat history. Rather the idea is to tell the story as it is and let everyone perceive it from their own perspectives.

[@afaqanwar2500]

Very productive discussion

[@philipdawes2661]

With all due respect, this is more of a choir preaching to itself rather than a debate. I was expecting a debate between differing views/interpretations, but there is consensus between all the participants.

[@sitdownstandup91]

its an echo chamber lol

[@OAInbox]

@@sitdownstandup91 The differing view is already prevalent in your culture! - this is was this panel was responding to!

[@Yannmoyy]

Oooooooooooooooo0

[@suleydaman]

Its hosted by Doha Debates but in the intro, she specifically calls it a Town Hall and a DISCUSSION

[@unknownpng650]

Whenever I watch talks like this one involving Muslim women with secular degrees "criticizing" the West i enjoy the irony of them using Western arguments, dressing in Western clothes, speaking in a Western language, and suggesting Western solutions,and i end by saying to myself, as if I'm asking them, Where is 'قال الله, قال الرسول'?"

[@unknownpng650]

im not a salafi neither , im talking from a muslim pov , if anyone claims to be a muslim it means that his source of morality and how to live your properly comes first and firmost from the Quran and the prophetic tradition not the UN's chart or what Voltaire said @jj-yi1ne

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

They’re against Western imperialism and orientalism; that doesn’t mean that they’re opposed to modernity or feminism or don’t want to live their lives as modern emancipated women. And the whole “orientalism” critique comes from Edward Said, who was an Arab and Palestinian, although to be fair he lived most of his life in the West.

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

@@unknownpng650 Religion is not able to shape society in the same way today as it did in the past. The modern world is fundamentally different. Modernity will fundamentally transform all traditional religions, including Islam. I don’t believe for a second this idea that the collapse of Western hegemony and the rise of multipolarity will strengthen the forces of traditionalism against “Western degeneracy” or whatever. On the contrary, I think the rise of multipolarity will accelerate the process of modernization in the non-Western world as they will be able to develop their economies free from Western exploitation. Islam will not be able to withstand the forces of modernization, and what it means to be a Muslim in the future will be fundamentally different from what it meant in the past. So I think the collapse of Western imperialism will accelerate secularization in the Muslim world.

[@samim4493]

@@ludviglidstrom6924 and Edward Said, the father of "Orientalism" was Christian Palestinian, not even Muslim.

[@disdoncable]

@@ludviglidstrom6924 said "Modernity will fundamentally transform all traditional religions, including Islam." Have you told the Muslims that? Pretty sure they'd have a serious problem with you criticizing their 'perfect' religion and their 'perfect' societies

[@elenascrolling]

Miss Iman was brilliant in this - she stuns with her critical view! A lot of the young ladies speaking had very balanced insights as well.

[@shrodingerscat4191]

Oh, good lord. These women have absolutely no perspective on history. This is very sad

[@soulsmouls]

Calm down, David Rosenstein.

[@CrusaderZealot]

That European art is gorgeous.

[@ashay33]

why does she keep saying arabs and asians?? I only see arab depections. Isn't arabia part of asia? If she means east asians by asians they are no depections of them in this talk. Just say arabs and north africans or middle east we wil all understand.

[@MDNT3M]

Ghengis khan (Mongols), rome or the British empire were the biggest colonists....the u.s took the reigns of the British empire......but did it in a neocolonial way but still intertwined with capitalism.....neoliberalism and exploitation of the global south.

[@MDNT3M]

Obviously the use of media....and the reserve currency of the dollar matrix and therefore manipulative control has huge impact.....IMF debt traps and then restructuring policies...."world bank" ....council on foreign relations...... Wars.....coups......etc etc.....

[@mohammedislam7302]

If world want peace and stability everyone shoud stand aginst USA not with USA

[@useRAJAN]

❤

[@ibtisamhtewek8899]

اتمنى لو كنت معكم ...على اساس مظلومين يانساء ملكات اليمين

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

Are the Qataris going woke? Only women, haha!

[@eju366]

This is not a debate .. echo chamber at best.

[@ullarpeterson2178]

pseudo-scientific crap at its best

[@sebbosebbo9794]

,, Belly Belly I feel "history leassons.. What a nonsens .. .. .. .. ..

[@akashyadav-vs6lc]

हमें कोई

[@mickylejaye-ru6xl]

Hehe

[@staticcouch135]

Don’t forget movies like the mummy and all war movies that portray us as terrori$ts.

[@ajayreddy8732]

Islam was the greatest colonist in history.

[@toobasheikh856]

And we are coming back. Just wait and watch.

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

@@toobasheikh856😂

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

No, they were not. The Europeans have been the greatest colonizers in history.

[@trexy6237]

That is an absolute lie.

[@ekaterinaponizovskayadevin2812]

What a BS they are talking about. A romantic interpretation of medieval European history was exactly the same and all that was accurate. Europe was the first that started breaking with the medieval (or barbaric past), The Middle East followed and sometimes actually resisted and tried to say in the past.

[@seamusdoherty]

I thought I was hearing things at times.

[@suleydaman]

That is orientalism

[@suleydaman]

When did Europeans break with barbarism? Was it after Holocaust? Or WWI where millions of men died, seems pretty barbaric to me. Apartheid? The spanish inquisition? Bengal famine which was man made? Or Iraq war? Or drone strikes? I used to be like Inaya just a couple of months ago. I have lots of respect for what's good in the West but there is a lot of bad as well.

[@suleydaman]

The sheer racism on display with regards to palestine issue lays bare the facade that the West cares about human rights. It is SHOCKING. I say this as a black man who defended the west to my pro-Black lives matter friends. I'd always try to focus on the positive when it comes to the West but looking past a genocide is too much for me

[@ekaterinaponizovskayadevin2812]

@@suleydaman It is all the phenomena that are organically a part of the rest of the world. They always existed in Europe as well. Europeans were the only ones who claimed them barbaric and rejected them. Wasn't India with their social casts an apartheid system. Fuck YEAH! But only Europeans held themselves to higher standards. Yes, the Holocaust was the return to barbarism common for the rest of the world. But Europeans punished all the participants and condemned it.

[@rakeshbarman3486]

lol 😂 sorry but these ladies don't know anything about history 😂😂