Original WW2 German Luger Bring-Back Collection of Joseph Siwicki

Hey everyone! Thanks for watching and I hope you enjoyed! Although the items are not a part of my personal collection this was a great opportunity to look at some original and pristine WW2 German items. Make sure to stay tuned for more content soon and stop by my website to check out new research materials and veteran profiles!
#military #militaryhistory #ww2 #ww2history #germanhistory #ww2germany #luger #veteran #veterans

[@jamalwilburn228]

Your Luger is what collectors refer to as "Black Widow." In the 1950s, Ralph Shattuck convinced people they were only issued to the SS and are extremely rare. Prices are high because of it.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for your comments Jamal! I am well aware of this unfortunate and continually perpetuated myth in the hobby. However, I am glad that with the higher use of digital media in the hobby this myth is slowly but surely coming to an end.

[@jamalwilburn228]

High-ranking officers tended to carry small pistols such as the PP or PPK. They wanted small concealed pistols. Yours came with Kar98 magazine, so it probably belonged to an NCO who had a sidearm for when his rifle was jammed.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks again for the comments Sean. I agree with your analysis.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

I have a couple of concerns with your conclusion that leads me to disagreement. First by taking a look at side arm procurement statistics for the German military during the second world war. Across all makers, the total number of both PP and PPK pistols procured across the entire German military was right around 215,750. In comparison, this is only 21.3% of the total number of Lugers being around 1,012,900 and only 17.5% of all P38's with their total being around 1,231,400 procured by the end of the war. Now of course I am leaving out the many other side arms issued often being the foreign captured or contracted examples but those numbers are unrelated to what is being discussed in my opinion. As for the issuance of PP and PPK pistols, the PPK pistols can essentially be taken out of the equation as the vast majority were issued to police units. The PP pistols saw a more sizable amount issued to the standard German military coming out to approximately 84,000. Now I will accept that by stating "higher ranking officers" in my video that could be interpreted in many ways. However, if you look at a company level essentially every NCO and officer almost certainly would have been issued a Luger or P38. If you look at higher officers you do see an increased amount of PP pistols however, statistically speaking the vast majority would have had to receive a Luger or P38 pistol. Additionally, upon passing a certain rank it became common practice to require the private purchase of side arms which is where you will see an increased amount of PP or even PPk pistols however even then many officers went for a Luger pistol as their private purchase choice because of the history of the side arm in the German military as well as the easy access to parts and service for their side arm. I will admit in addition that I did not mention the many other jobs that could have received this side arm such as machine gun crews, mortar crews, transportation crews, signal crews, etc however I ruled these out as likely receiving this side arm due to such light and seemingly only holster wear on this example.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Cont. 1 So as for a more lengthy explanation to my conclusion in the video. I believe this likely came from a higher ranking officer who saw little front line combat because of the very light wear on this example in combination with the statistical evidence that an officer most likely would have received a Luger or P38 side arm above anything else during the Second World War. However, I will certainly admit that one possibility I overlooked while filming this video was the fact that many rear-line or non combat enlisted men and lower rank officers such as medical officials, forestry service, border guards, postal workers, and payroll officers, among others also could have received this side arm and still result in having this patina to it.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Cont. 2 In response to the second half of your analysis. As seanrooney already put it. NCO's very rarely carried rifles. The combat load out for NCO's in the mid to late 1930's actually did have the NCO issued a rifle along with a side arm, however this was very quickly changed by the beginning of the war when Germany developed effective new primary weapons for the NCO's in combat such as the MP38, MP40, and later the STG44 among others. My analysis as stated in the video of this grouping is that these items were likely all pieces put together by the vet from surrender piles or distribution warehouses and then all stuck on the belt for easy transport home. It is highly unlikely if not near impossible that this belt is an all original combat pickup as he found it during the war.

[@jamalwilburn228]

The tool is called the "takedown tool." The holsters were dyed black, and the dye has just worn off therem

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for your comments Jamal. I appreciate you filling in the correct name for the takedown tool. The name unfortunately slipped my mind whilst originally recording the video. As for our analysis of the dye on the holster I will have to push back. Firstly of course not all holsters were dyed black. You can find many examples of undyed, brown luger holsters even from the same year as the example depicted in my video. Additionally, I will stand by my conclusion that the left belt loop was replaced or an undyed piece that was used in the assembly of this particular holster. This conclusion is simply from the fact that the lack of dye is so complete and uniform across that entire belt loop and because of the lack of an equal amount of missing or damaged dye else where on the back of the pouch. I hope to see you in the comments in the future!

[@jamalwilburn228]

@warhistorygeek6013 You have some great videos! I love the Axis captured items. It's like the days of old when winning armies would bring really cool items they found on their expedition

[@warhistorygeek6013]

@@jamalwilburn228 Thanks for the kind words Jamal! Captured items are some of my favorite items as well! They hold multiple stories to tell. First the story they held from the country they were used by and then the story of the veteran who took it home as a trophy of their time at war.

[@spangy8405]

Beautiful conditioned P08 ... the spare parts are NOT P08 parts and the brown belt loop is a replacement loop ... the bandage was an interesting touch ... keep up the great work WHG - very nice video 👍

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for the comment spangy! The luger is definitely one of the most beautiful examples I have ever had the privilege of viewing let alone handling! I appreciate you pointing out that those parts are not luger parts! I had missed this detail when making the video but since publishing I have now found that those parts belong to an MG-42! As for the brown loop I have seen mixed answers on this but I do agree with you that I believe it is a replacement. The bandage was definitely interesting to me as well! I can't say I've seen that before until this example. I appreciate the kind words and I hope to see you in the comments in the future!

[@timothydownum4689]

Belt is Luftwaffe LBA property marked some good items there! If I had to guess I'd say it was vet puttogether.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for the comment Timothy! I appreciate the kind words! My conclusion was also that this was put together by the vet.

[@josephhauad8673]

Black widow luger the lug on the bottom is for a stock and you should of pulled back the toggles before pulling the trigger or pointing it at yourself. Thanks great gun

[@sigogglinguns]

I'm struggling to place what those three spare parts are. They're definitely not luger firing pins or an extractor. The Luger firing pin is cylindrical and tapers to a relatively sharp point. What you call the extractor from the spare parts box is definitely an extractor, but not an extractor for a Luger. Edit// I really don't think those two "firing pins" from the box are firing pins at all. They're far more blunt than firing pins usually are. Edit 2// The 'tism kicked in and I'm fairly sure those two T pieces are Ejectors for an MG42, and the extractor is also from an MG42. Wonder if there's an MG42 up in the Siwicki attic...

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks again for the comments sigogglinguns! Once again, thank you for the corrections! After doing a little more research on my end as well I definitely agree with your conclusion. They definitely appear to be MG-42 parts. I would imagine that the vet probably made the same mistake I did in thinking these were Luger parts in the place he picked the Luger up. Cool to know there are some MG parts included in the collection as well! I hope to see you in the comments in the future!

[@jamalwilburn228]

It's an early war Luger made in 1941. Those made in 1942 would've been marked "42'.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks again for your comments Jamal. I realize this error now in hindsight. I was seemingly over focused on the other manufacturing details of the Luger and ended up hyper fixating on them resulting in my flawed conclusion in the video instead of reading the date stamp right in front of me haha.

[@zeppelin5000]

Early in the war, but late for Lugers. They ended production the following year.

[@gracesnyder9728]

Boy, do I love Luger pistols 🫶 my favorite 🔫❤️🥳

[@sigogglinguns]

Also, what you refer to as the "slide" is more accurately the "barrel extension" or "slide extension". The fact that he picked up a spare is pretty remarkable. That's very, very cool. I couldn't resist shooting it myself though.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for the comment sigogglinguns! I appreciate the correction on the name of the slide extension! I thought it was quite interesting as well that he did that. Fairly uncommon to see a vet thinking that far ahead about things like that. There may be some rounds run through it in the future but not by me! Haha

[@jazztheglass6139]

A dab of neutral leather conditioner will keep it in good shape ( holster, belt, mag holders )

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for the comment jazztheglass! I will have to consider this in the future!

[@RUSTYSURPLUS]

Hey War Geek That collection and that Lugar is the finest one i have ever seen !!!! A true bring back 1941 BLACK WIDOW. Please let me know if your grandad ever want to pass it on to a collector like my self. THANKS for showing !! i subed ya too.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for the comment RustySurplus! I certainly enjoyed the opportunity to showcase this truly amazing collection of items and I appreciate the sub!!

[@RUSTYSURPLUS]

@@warhistorygeek6013 You know i just got 2 bring backs from ww2 a 1940 Lugar and a P38 from an estate sale. Gonna make a video on it soon.

[@mikehelms3063]

Black Widow...👌

[@brucerogers277]

The lug on the back is for a shoulder stock.

[@warhistorygeek6013]

Thanks for the comment Bruce! As I mentioned in the video I am not very well versed in the firearms side of the hobby so this escaped me while filming. Wish I had one of those guys though!

[@brucerogers277]

You did a very good job.